Pushkin. Today we have part two of Rick Rubin's conversation with Giles Martin, and before we get too far, I want to let you know that Rick has a new podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five years of recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to talk to more than just musicians, So on his new podcast, he'll be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people, anyone that Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe to Tetragrammaton wherever you listen to podcasts. Now back to Giles. In part one a few weeks ago, Giles talked about his delicate work remastering classic Beatles albums. He also explained how we collaborated with Peter Jackson's audio team and used AI while remastering Revolver. Definitely go check out that episode if you haven't already. In part two, we'll hear Giles talk about his dad, Sir George Martin, who never second guessed his own genius. Giles also shares hilarious stories from his time as a teenager living at his father's storied studio that was destroyed by volcano and the Caribbean Plus Giles talks about the time he was fired and then rehired by the legend Martin Scorsese. This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Rick Rubin with Giles Martin from Shango La. We're jumping right back into the conversation about the sensitivity around working with the Beatles original recordings. Have you ever had an issue with over time sometimes the sound on the tape changes, like the like the top end. I've had that happen even during the making of an album like now it takes two years to make from the time he cut the tracks till the time you're ready to mix it, it doesn't sound the same. Yeah, what's this bizarre kind of like you know, Holy Grail type thing is that the Beatles record on EMY tape and EMY tape was higher quality than other tape, and so there's yeah, there's there's there's tape from the seventies, especially eighties actually where everything the oxides are falling off the tape and all the things happening, especially the twenty four tract tapes we used to have, and what exactly what we're talking about. You play at once you can see the tape heads getting darker and dark as you're playing, and you're losing that music and that information as you're playing that you're watching your work disappear in front of your eyes and your rise in you. And then you bake the tape so it seals your sides back on and then you get to play at once, and then that's it. The Beatles doesn't happen. Bizarrely, it just doesn't have. We have never had to bake a tape. I mean we we've now transferred I think in super high resolution and everything backed up, et cetera. Escially, we don't. You know, I'm not sitting there listeners and pressing play. You know, maybe people would like me to be doing but I'm not doing that. I'm actually pressing a space bar when I'm mixing. That's cool, It's well, it adds to the miraculous nature it is. It is. It is very strange, and even you know, I suppose I'm one of the closest people in the world to it, and in a way which I never thought I would be planned on being. But I still find it miraculous. I still find miraculous that all of these tapes, I mean, there's only there's two songs which don't have the original original multi tracks, of which there's no other band like that in the world. And this is a band that studden ninety sixty three and finished in sixty nine seventeen. Everything is there and everything is everything is in the same place, and it's in really concondition. It's like it's like, I suppose they were lucky as they were successful, but there was something. There's something about the Beatles, even talking to them, and even talking to my dad. I said to my dad, I was working I do these I do films when I'm not doing blad Juts films. I was working this Kinsman film, sort of spy capers, and I said to him, I was I was trying to work on a scene. I was struggling, and it's doing with film companies and know what they're like, They're like, I said, were you ever do you ever think you were bad at music? Dad? He has a strange question to ask me, and he was very sick at the time. I said, because I'm struggling with this. You know, I always think I can't do something and then I end up doing it. I've done it, and then I feel like I haven't done it. And there's sort of like this gallm like mentality of someone going, you can't do this, and then of course you can, and this I fight with my I fight. He goes and he closed his eyes and he and he opened them. He said, nine, No, I always thought I was brilliant and and and I too, reacts to that. It's like one is you total bastard, because like I wish I felt like that, and the other one was, yeah, you were you know. They were like, and I've used analogy before. It's like surfing. You know, I know I've done good things in my life. I know that, but most of the time, and that's surfing. I've been on a wave and it's like this is this is great, But most time, you know, you've surfed way more than I have, but physically and spiritually. But most of the time I'm treading water, I'm paddling getting hit by waves an occasionally might catch one. They were on a wave of the whole time, like they were doing revolvers, like we've got this idea, let's do this, let's do this, and it all worked for them. It was like it's amazing and they knew that. And then other people knew that, so they preserved what they were doing. There was this momentum that happened with the Beatles that has never been seen since. It's the sort of energy they had. And that's the thing that if I talked to Paul or took to Ringo when I when I like mix an arbor, you know, sit with the capital. We're a capital with Paul and we listened to a revolver together. What he senses, what he misses in his life is that bandy because it was and you know this used they're that brilliant television program with him. Yes, and you're the other person that spent the time with Paul talking about us. It was interesting. It's going back to we're talking about making great records and do with equipments about people. They don't know how they had what they had. They don't know how the four of them managed to create this surfing the wave all the time, and if one of them was going to fall off, they pulled them back on and carried on surfing. And that's what that's what being a that's what being a great band is that some of the parts is way bigger than the individuals. It's one of the great things I remember that Paul said in the in the three two one series was he talked about the first time that Ringo filled in for their drummer who wasn't doing who wasn't able to do a show, and the feeling he said he looked at John right away and it's like, I hope we could keep doing this, Like like again, they didn't know that in advance. It happened, and then it's like, oh, this is what it's this is it? Yeah, And it's an amazing feeling. And we and we have that experience in the studio when we're working on things that we don't really know what we're doing ever, yeah, and then you hear something it's like whoa, there it is yeah, and it's like not because we did anything, but luckily we're able to say there it is when it is yeah. I mean I was doing this. I did this Alton Rocketman film and and we had I got a bandon for that, and it's a film, so you have money and you have opportunities and answer stuff. And I had to record a bunch of Alton stuff and I got this band and some of his some of his early work, some of his records and the band are great. He's got an amazing, amazing musicians. I got this band. It was two young guys and two old guys. This guy robbing back in touches, the main minds, a great guitar player, and these two young guys draw and bass player and the piano player. I used Dave Hartley, and there was this chemistry on that day in the studios, just plowed through like six or seven songs, not even a click track, just like I sat there and going, well, this is easy. And you have those days and you remember those days. We remember those days and you go, you know what, whether it's recording Joni Mitchell or or you know those things, you just go, well, this is what am I doing here? And that's actually that's one of the things that You've always been inspirational, amazing at Rick is sitting back and letting it happen. And that's I always said it people, what's it like working the artists? And I work with actors more now what were singers? But it's that thing where you go, you need to tell someone they can jump out of a plane without a parachute and they're going to land safely, because that's what it is. You need to have that ability to go okay, you're in a safe space, you know, and the last thing you want And this is what your work has shown is that I I don't want to work with someone and then put to go back and sing the song in the bath better that night, do you know what I mean? That's the fear. It's like, this is your and that's what's actually that's one thing that studios do, or occasions do. That's what's changed. And you can record anywhere. Now if someone comes to your place here, they're going to want to perform. It's brick rubin, for God's sake, and this studio is I'm gonna want to perform. And that's part of the that's bigger than any piece of equipment as well. That's so important to be able to have that. And and I suppose the Beatles had Abbey Road and that's why whenever they went anywhere else, and they did, and they made great records. And Dear Prudence was done in Trident, you know, and so was I Want Issue so heavy, and you know, you know, the rooftop concert is pretty good, you know, But I love that about Abby a Road, which you know, you we've into it. It's like it can be. It's it's an interesting building. But Studio too is drab. I hate to say it, folks, but it's not. It's got a stairwall staircase, but it shouldn't be. It's like, and what happened to pink flow in the beels? They painted the walls with color. Yeah, they didn't need to the music, but the music they were like, had they been surrounded by everything, the records would pretty sounded different, do you know what I mean? It's kind of interesting. And they have those big soft things on the walls. It's almost like a room in and Singe asylum a little bit. It's a very big room, not almost it is a room. Yeah, it's a big room, like a big padded white padded room. But it has a magic to it. And you know though, when you walk into that room and you talked, so when your voice changes, Yeah, and there is some again, whether it's physically the space or psychologically in that we know what's happened in this room. It doesn't matter you show up to Abbey Road Studio two. You're gonna you're gonna do your very best. Yeah. And I always think there's something about you know, walking this walking in the shadows of giants. It's that Glenn Miller and Ella Fitzgerald and like the voices are. I think about sound wave, sound waves never dying out, Yeah, and as reflections of music from the past in that room and in a way, you know, without being too hippie, like a posh hippie. I think that's I think that's true. I just think it's true. I think you walk into a space and you're a musician, and you go, I can tell that something special has happened in this room. It's like a church. Yeah. No, it's true, and it's true, and you can feel you can you can feel it when you're there. And artists are not so different from each other. The reason that artists resonate in a space is because that's a good space to resonate it. Yeah, it's true. It's true, and it's different from it's different from being at home. It really is. That's the thing, it really is. Tell me about you mentioned earlier being your dad's ears. Talk about that. That's a that's an interesting thing, and I know about it, but I don't really know what it entailed. The nature of music is so language doesn't do it justice. Yeah, so tell me about that. How did it start and what was it like? It was interesting because I wanted to do music. I want to see music. I remember being on a skiing holiday. I was fourteen and my dad was playing the piano in the hotels. He had to do an arrangement for someone. My dad was a brilliant arranger. It was snowing. I think I didn't want to go skiing. We're in Austria, and I wanted to hang out with him. And I was sitting there and I was watching him, and he turned to go, So, Charles, what do you want to do? I said, I want to do music that He goes, well, I didn't think you can. I said, why not? He goes, I don't think you're good enough? And I was like, I was heartbroken, and but I think I was like I was said a slight punk mentality of you know what, F you? I want to do it anyway. So I started. I started busking, and I started busking in the underground when I was fifteen. You know, I was playing guitar and playing him. I was playing pubs actually when I was fifteen or sixteen, even though on he knew four songs. Me and my makes to go and playing pubs. Us played Issue really going Out with by Joe Jackson, but not in the middle bit because it was too We didn't know the chords, you know, it was like you know American Pie. It was just the songs we played anyway. And then what happens my dad? You know, when I was about a year after he started realizing, and it was when they were larning a tape machine. They started playing like fifteen nips to fifteen k He was he sort of meters moving and he realized that he wasn't he wasn't hearing it anymore, and he asked the engineer. He goes, what's you know what what the frequencies at ten kularts like I can't hear that anymore, And he started realizing that he had. He was suffering from hearing loss and hearing damage and it was quite fast. But you know, my dad was a brilliant man, lovely man, but he's a terrible businessman. And he didn't he signed a world as royalties from the records, so he needs to carry on working, you know, he didn't working to live like most people do. And he didn't want to lose his job, so he didn't tell anyone. When photographs of my dad does he had long hair, like a long hair wet beyond his ears because he didn't want to hide it. He hid his hearing enge from people. And I started becoming his ears. And I don't know how it happened. There wasn't a progressive decision. It happened organically. He would play me stuff and I would then listen to it. And here I remember when the first CDs came out, the Beatles and Red Blue albums. He goes, I don't think they sound right. And they didn't sound right. They sound too bright, they sound digital, they sound I went into have your Own and had a massive argument as a seveneen year old with a mastery engineer and old marsh engineer who also probably couldn't hear as well. That's probably the only person who could hear at that stage. So that's what happened. He would work on records and I would and he would explain to me. Would sit at the piano and he would play. We would play scale on the piano. He would tell me where the notes would run out for him. He got to the stage where he couldn't at the end, he couldn't hear anything above a middle C on a piano, which is quite low. It's like I can't. I can remember. I used to think as a killer hurts, but it's not. It's below that. To begin with, It'd be like I'd be able to read his arrangements and nobody's trying to do and then we'd go and record and he wouldn't never hear the top string lines. And so I knew what frequencies were really and we've sat like doing stuff and I said, you know him is if you know this is, and I can go, this is seven K, this is this is what. I don't solo stuff on a mix at all. It doesn't make any sense to me to do. So it's interesting because because I find that, like I'm doing Beetles stuff, I won't work on John's voice and get John's voice sounding good. I'll work on John's voice in the song in the kind always because yeah, because I find that, you know, it changes, like like for instance, current it was I think a little healthier friends. I mean where Ringo's voice was in the mix, and also how Paul's bass was dramatically affected the sound of ringos voice. Actually, sorry, where's Paul's bass was in the mix? If it was central? I think it's left hand side. It's not like that. I can't remember. But if I put it central, Ringo's voice would change. And it's that thing. So why would I soloway wild solo and then the base changes the voice anyway? All the sort of stuff. So I learned about frequencies and became his ears and became we did We did a project at Pete Townshend at hit Factor in New York, and Pete, who to his own omission, has hearing issues. Why should we be surprised, he said to me. I mean recently he gave me his book and he's one of the few people that he mentioned me in his book. Like because I was hidden, I was I was the person that didn't exist, and no one wanted not everyone wanted George Martin. No one wanted George Martin's son, which is listen, I wouldn't. So I was seeing as this precocious kind of like I want to be hanging around a studio person. I had to be very careful not to you know, not to interfere. At the same time, I would have to be responsible to protect my dad. And there was a time where where bands he was working, I mean, I spent a lot of time mons around the Caribbean. He was working on an eighties band called Ultravox, who are very nice guys. And the bass player count of the studios as he was going into the studios, and the basse player goes, basically, how's it going in there? Georges are going okay? And he went two boiled eggs? He thought, what do you have for lunch? You thought was the question? The base lay realized that maybe you couldn't hear as well as he thought. You know, but the thing about hearing, and I've talked to people about this, is that your hearing ability doesn't mean you can make good records of bad records for sure. And even though when my dad lost his hearing, he could sense things and yeah, you can feel it. I spent to Bob Claymount that this last week. Actually we're talking about he's an amazing mixed engineering. He knows that he may not have not not much top end as he had before, but he knows he doesn't make bright reds brights any records. He's trying to work out why that is. Yeah, I think that it's more we hear it not just with our ears, we hear it in a different way. Yeah, yeah, we did. I did. I did a forum actually with Andrew Shep's and for kids actually saying yeah, even if you're worried about your hearing, it doesn't mean shouldn't inhibit you from making doing this for a living. Like just because you might have perfect hearing or perfect pitch doesn't mean you're make great records. We know that, you know what I mean, Like Chris Thomas going to hear out of one ear, yeah, you know, and he's made great records. Yeah, and they are a great um. You know, Chuck Close is a great artist and he's blind. Yeah, yeah, a great visual artist. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. So it's yeah, it's a it's an interesting thing. We have to take a quick break here and then we'll be back with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin. We're back with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin. Tell me about Monserrat, Well, Monserrat, Monsrat is my dad's dream, Like it's that thing. It's like my dad always did this thing, unless he did he build the studios, He tell me about well, he wanted to build a studio, so he my dad's always wanted to build places where things happened, so he wasn't he was. He was at Abbey Road. I was to start working at fifty. He left in sixty six, I think he was still in the Beatles and he built Air Studios, which is a place in Oxa Circus, which I visited and it was incredible. It was a great studio. It was a fantastic studio. Was it formerly a church? No? No, okay, Air Studios now as a church. And that was one of the nineties. The first one was in ox of Circus, right, So that's that's another one of his legacy studios. During the London time, he decided he had some money, which he thought. This was very uncomfortable for my dad any money, so he went, he went, you know, I'm going to go and build. He was gonna building students on a ship. At one stage he bought a Norwegian even to buy a Norwegian ferry and build the studios on that. That sounds incredible, but then he realized the engine noise again, that wouldn't give him what he wanted. So then he looked in the Caribbean Monster at wasn't it was an island which no one went to because it was a volcanic island. It wasn't very tourist and he went perfect okay, difficult to get to and he built the studios and he built the studios which was what became was one of the best studios in the world at the time. I hadn't need desk. Then later on SSL just when that came in, put in an SSLG series what you'd he built it, you know, nineteen seventy seven was when it started being built open maybe seventy eight seventy nine, and it was a studios the same as the studios he had in London, and it became a matched the footprint or same same same idea, yes, so same, but it was living there were living there. There were villas being rented and we had a house that people stayed in residential studios. The Neve desk was a customed need desk. I think they're only three built. One went to air and m onement to air and one went to one stool. A air at Lyndhurst has has one desk, amazing desk and it became a destination for eighties recordings. Yes, so most of the police records were made there. You know famously that if you look at the video for I Can't, I Can't, there's there a few of their videos you see you seem distinct dancing on the desk or you know there's that, there's that or outside. You know, in the West Indies, it's all ill, Monsterrat, Alton John recorded their, Michael Jackson when they're Stevie Wonder was the Earth Wind and Fire, lou Reid, Duran Duran, Iron Maiden, Jimmy Buffett did Volcano did about Monsterrat? You know, every single lastiment de monstrat And this is the inter this thing I talked to Universal about. Now, I go, okay, you've got Adds studios. You've got these studios. You don't have to make money out of studios. You have enough money anyway. I don't just come back to the kid that wants to feed the birds and not going to studios. Is where people make make music, not where we make money. You can make money out of music, but let's make them create a spaces that artists want to go to inspire people. And that's what my dad did. My dad probably lost about it was eventually destroyed by volcano. You know, don't build next out active volcano would be one of the rules. And he probably lost about two million dollars on Monserrat, and it was it became the destination of record. I think there were tax breaks. I think funny enough. I think when you were in those days, if you were recording elsewhere, it's when people sold records, and so every artist went there. And as a kid, I kind of lived on Monserrat, you know, me and my sister, Me and my sister. It was strange, you know what it was. It was really interesting when I was at boarding school. I went to it. I was a teenager, and they would fly me and my sister would fla out on a plane, you know, as as I saw card was an undercompanied minors and you changed Antigua and then get the plane. My parents would meet me and Antigua and then we'd we'd got a Monserrat and it was kind of funny, also kind of lonely as well, because you know, everyone was with their mates, but we were with Earthwood and Fire. You know, we'd have been having dinner with these like you know, you remember these like Little River Band Australian band. I remember spent a lot of time with dinners with them, or or Ultravox as I mentioned, or you know, Paul McCartney came out there. You know, we knew the police really well because they were there and you kind of were. I was always on duty on the studio. But for me, a studios was were there with your whole family, yeah, my mom, my sister. For us, it was kind of interesting because I always remember like i'd go, I'd be able to go into control on the studios when there was no one there, and there was like a Fender stratocaster on a stand in the live room, and then I knew what I was allowed to touch it, and I like, you know, one day I'll have a Fender Stratic. One day I might have a guitar at this And I found out years later it wasn't actually was it was a copy. It was so just stuck a Fender stratocast like a Japanese thing, But it was. It was an amazing experience that I think the thing for me, it's funny looking back at it, you know, because we're hearing your wonderful studios Lightnary monsrat wasn't like that. The control had a window in it which overlooked the sea, which is beautiful. It was the monster was the top of the hill next to the volcano which then erupted and you could look down the mountain, see the sea and see the sunset if that Stevie Wonder was there and said to my dad, this is a beautiful sunset. My dad, yes it is, and then realized that Steve Wonder was just making her jokes and you what time it was? It's just really but it was. But then the live room had no windows at all, you know, like a seventy studios and they got the whole vibe a bit like casinos. The whole idea about studios there is no one want to know what time it was. Yeah. So then in the Stones, the Stones did a couple of albums there, I think, and they would go there and like they would be up till four in the morning. But then all there's a kid on the interesting that happens about because it's residential people that like the drugs. And you know, me and my sister was we were staying in our house, which whether we had a house which was which was a guesthouse, an old guesthouse has six bedrooms going down a corridor, and that's where mainly the Rhodes and extra because it wasn't that posh and artist would stay in villas that were rented. And I said to my sister, do you want to get a backcamm And her name was Lucy, and she's great, and she's she's two years old than me, and and she goes yeah, And so we haven't got the backcama case. And I swear rick half of this quite large backgame in case had a big bag of white powder in it. Okay, I'm like a like a big bag of white powder. And I went to my sitomen, that's drugs I must see in an out eleven years old. And I stopped my finger because that's what in the cop shows, you remember, that's what you like to see. You see your finger and you start like I was obviously dabbing cocaine. My parents came down there. What do you do? When I found some drugs? They were like for us, it was like a cop show, and they're like, oh my god, you know this is And my dad was like grabbed it and and iban the tossed this bag into the garden. You had all these humming birds flying around and looks like smoking cigarettes And actually I used to be having right now I'm an actor or whatever. But that's you know, this is that it was for us. It was kind of it was kind of normal. It was a weird thing, you know. We were we were very kind of British as I am a kid and in an unusual circumstances. And tell me about the place. Was there a little town close there was that there was a month rat had had eleven thousand people on it at the time, as most people out now find because because the eruption had has a town called Plymouth, which was the main town, which was down the road if you like a British film of the colonial British town. Interesting. I went back Arthur volcan erupted and I was loud back in because we owned the studios. And I went there with the head of police and where the chip where there was a clock tower in the town square, a bit like back to the future. Yeah, and you could stand next to the face of the clock because the whole of the volcanic ash piled up. Wow, it's an amazing It was an amazing thing, you know, there's a great there's a great film actually on that, this great woman directors made on Monserrat and the legacy of Monserrat and my dad. I found it very sound. My dad's stand at the end. It was his dream and he made the great thing about my dad. He made his dreams so beautiful, you know he did. He was and you met him. He was a lovely guy. And he stands at the end. He's very very old. He's like, you know, he's not the George Mounty people remember. And he's there standing on the drylic side of what was his dream, the studios, and he goes, well, the thing is, you know we all turned to dust in the end, Yes, you know, we all that's the thing we all to And it's like, he's fine, it's fine. I found a point of sad. But going to monster at and we still, you know, have the studios there for what it's worth it. He wants to buy a studio as a monster. Let me know, we ever start a studios there. It's a derelict. No, it's a derelict property, I understand, with things falling through it. But it was a dream. It was a it was it was this dream that happened, and and people say to me, would you do it again? I go when there's times different. Now you don't need to We can go with these microphones we have and go to a place and record something now without having to build a build a place, you know, because it was very tough to do for him. And so many people have so many amazing memories of their time, they're beautiful. Do you know what sparked the idea for your dad to build a studio in that place? He wanted to build the studios which was somewhere completely different. He wanted to build somewhere where artists could go and be away from everything else. And you think that's because he had spent so much time in London making music that the idea of doing it elsewhere was it would be inspiring to him, and thus he assumed it would be inspiring to other people who've been doing it for a long time as well. Yeah, I think there's that, and I think there's also My dad had an element of plunking about him as well, funny enough that despite his stature and the fact he looked a bit like Prince Philip and the fact he spoke like he did like mean I sound like my dad and I'm the same. There's an anarchy that lies beneath us. Yeah, well you can tell from the comedy albums he worked, you can see there's more there. So with EMI, forst my dad, his voice wasn't his voice. He changed. My dad was a Cockney when he grew up, he was liked, and he changed his voice because he couldn't get it. He wouldn't have got ahead of the music and see without being an English gentleman, and became almost changed his persona. He was actually more working class than at least two of the Beatles were amazing. That's people don't realize about it. So he went against em I, you know, even on on so many different levels. He didn't believe and he didn't like the corporate world. Yes, he liked the artistic world. Yes, you know. So you're rebelled against Abbey Road built air st under food for associated independent recorders. He wanted to be independent. There's even a Beatles Christmas message where they go George has got independent, you know, because he wanted to be away from that system of the factory, if you like. And then he wanted to build a place where artists could go and be away from the record label and be free and be free and make and it worked for him. I think the records that were made a monster probably have made a you know what, one half billion dollars worth of you whatever it is, I mean like a Brothers and Arms loan was you know it was? Did he produce all of the music? Adams the artists worked there, you know, And it's and it's funny meeting people from that era, Like there's a bunch of engineers and producers, so I like Hugh Pagam and Neil Drseman and that era of and they couldn't believe in those days and it sounds so hard. They would go somewhere where you'd have to get a plane to Antigua, get either a charter plane or a small boat to get to this place, and they'd walk into this room and it would be like walking into one of the best studios in the world. And my dad loved that. He loved the idea. I mean, there's the stories that have been in monstrat I mean there were drivers, for instance, they would drive the band around and one of the there was always bell falling out with one of the drivers fill out with another driver or fill out with a band member probably probably one of the musicians was route to him. He stole the pool but the white pool ball from the pool table in the studios because because he knew the band like playing pool, and they couldn't get another white pool ball because it was you can't get anything on the island. How long would it take to get supplies of any kind if you needed something? A couple of weeks? Yeah, so so like just equipment and stuff like that. And you know, they just imagine the logistics of bands going out there and flying flight case of stuff. And I've been making albums different places in the world and it's still uh yeah, it's still a challenge. Yeah, and and and and in those days it was more because also, yes, the scale of what was needed was some tape bigger than it is now define define shift from the tapes back. Yeah, it's it was, but it was it was, it was worth it, do you know what I mean? Absolutely? I love it. Yeah, I love it. It does sound like a dream come true. Yeah, And like most of these love the main problem is that weren't actually the bands. It was like problems the band's girlfriends and managers and you know, people getting bored and getting drunk and fall into swimming pools. And I remember that as a kid. That was always there was always a drama happening with someone getting drunk and crashing a car or it was always that kind of thing that would happen. But I think what artists liked about it. I mean I spoke to Elton about it. He liked the fact that he wasn't It was such a he wasn't anyone there. Yes, because that's why my dad chose it, because which was really very rural, if you like, and also because it was a very black art and that sortimes ridiculous because the Western Indians, but you have to bear him on the Westerns has a huge sense of colonialism. And it wasn't touristy. So only if like if Stevie Wonder came here, that was that would be interesting. But if Alton John was one of the streets or Stinger was one of the shot, if they knew he was, they didn't care about who he was. So Alton John, there's a chicken shack, you know. Everything was like they're doing enough of restaurants. Alan used to love this chicken shack, you know, I used to go down there and it was bizarre. I mean I remember was a kid. There was one boat. There was one of like it's like a thirty five sailing boat that a guy called Ken used to take people around to a beach on and we went with Alton and Ronata was the tapop was she was the assistant engineer. And then I got back to school and then it was like Alton's marrying Ronata and I was like they weren't even together. Yeah, it's funny, like as a kid, you lived this kind a weird, you know, and now you know things that I ended up working on Alton john Life story film. You go and see that, see his version of the events. But it's kind of and she was great and still actually still hear from her, but it's so strange. As a kid, you I think, one thing you realize you work around musicians with great around the musicians, you realize that adults really are as as bright as you think. It's something I stand by today. Yeah, I think in general that's the case. It's not it's not we don't really get that. To musicians. People are just crazy, yeah, exactly, and a little crazy goes a long way. That's the other thing. Yeah, that's the other thing. You know, that's there's an acceptance and and that's why my father had he was he had acceptance and liberalism to his approach. And yes, and he didn't you know that the preconceived ideas of George Martin and the reality were two very different things, like you know, and you know, he just loved music. You know, it's like, you know, his closest ally was Quincy Jones, because there were two sides of the same coin. Yes, interesting enough, we have to pause for another quick break, but we'll be right back with the rest of Rick's conversation with Giles Martin. We're back with the rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with Giles Martin. Can we listen to something from from the new album? Yeah, absolutely, due to mix or you want to hear the sessions, whatever you recommend. I want to hear what you think is going to be most interesting. It depends with like a new mix or a session of two different things. What's your favorite song for Bolva? I like them all. I like the albums. I don't. I don't listen to songs that way. I listened to Bold, I listened to whole projects typically. Yeah, well that's how to play one track. Listen to. She said, because I think it's quite a great this is quite interesting. This. I think it's just it's one of those songs that you forget about, but it's cooler. Yeah, she said, I know what it's like to be done. I don't want it is to be sad. And she's making me feel like I've never been born. I said, I put all those things in your hand, things that made me feel that I mind, and then making me feel like I've never been born. She said, you don't understand what I said. I said, now, no, no, you're wrong. When I was a boy, everything was a line, everything was right. I said, even let you know what you know? I know that I'm ready to me because you're making me feel like I've never been born. She said, me, don't understand why I said. I said, now I know you're wrong. And I was a boy, everything was a right, everything was right. I said, even let you know, watch you know, I know that I'm ready to me. You match the fades, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's important. What would it be like if you left them longer? Or or you think that's also part of maintaining what it is. That's part of that's part of what the band wanted. Yeah, do you know, I mean it's part of that. Yeah, yeah, that's where the song ends. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people ask me about that, and quite often they're right as well, do you know what I mean? That's thing is there's a reason why the fade happens there, and hope people go to what happens after that? You go? Well, to be honest with you, not much yea. Yeah. And and you know, on the out techs and stuff. I mean I never put out takes on that. We should just like, here's the song with just no fade on it, because then it's like you have to have the horse on to get to the bit they want to hear. I try and match all of that stuff, So I didn't want in a bizarre way, I kind of like the idea of people not noticing I've done nothing. Yes, I always have this theory. I worked on this George Harrison film Living the Material World with Scorsese and Martin Scorsese. Like a lot of people rightfully will say, you know, what the hell is this guy doing? Why is he remix and stuff? You know, don't And after four weeks they fired me from the project. I was like, okay, cool, I don't mind. I mean, you know, that's what you know. And then Olivia Harrison foam and said, we listened to the stuff and it sounds really bad in the cinema in our playbacks. What I said, well you did fire me, and they went, okay, well you and Martin needs to meet and we met in Delane Lee was the film studios in Soho in London, and I played him all things must passed there was. He had a button on the desk of the amba in the room and he went, this is the one I remember. I went, this is the one that we've mixed with the film, and he went, why I don't unerstand it as well, because music isn't necessarily always the way you remember it to be, and that kind of weird. I kind of like the idea of mixing it how you remember it to be. Yeah, you know what I mean? Oh absolutely, And that's like I want you to listen to while this is I remember it being in my perfect world and not some fandango modern remix of it. Yes, I mean, that's that's kind of there's an arrogance that comes with that, I suppose, because it's like, well, maybe it's how I remember it being, but but there is the thing where you go it's never quite how you remember it, and sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse. But as long as it makes you feel the same thing, as long as you get the same that's the key. It's like, listening to that, it felt I felt a rhythm. It almost felt like it was faster. I know it's not faster, but there was something something I was hearing, something that gave it the feeling of forward motion that I don't remember being in the original. And it felt good. Yeah, nobody's But also the other thing is like it sounds younger, and Ian sounds younger. It sounds like the band's younger. Yes, you kind of what I want to get. These are twenty five year ols planing room, and they'll always be twenty five years playing a room. Yes, then they are. They are younger than Harry Styles is now. Okay, and so, and that's the thing about records and recording what I do is like it is time travel. You're going back to that time when we're listening to a twenty bunch and twenty five rods in a room in the same way that we recorded them. Now they'd be bunch twenty you know, twenty five rolds. It's timeless, that's the whole point. And so if you can go with a second, these guys are really like pumping and hitting their instruments, and yes they are. That's because they're a great band, and that's what you want to hear. Yes, that's the exciting bit. And I was really lucky because the first thing I did really was the Love Project. And I'm good at if I'm good at one thing, I'm good at combining things in my head, like in that sort of process. But this, this will work with this, and the Love Shows kind of starts with the drum solo from the end she goes into get Back. It's like there's his drums, the drums, ringos drums. So it goes in the end to get back and there's a string crescendo, and I knew in my head this was to work. But then I did what people would do, right, I put a grid out and so there's like one twenty two point five bpm and it had like and really that was the first year and it sounded terrible. It's like Ringo was in time and he never and Ringo is a great drummer, but he should never be put No, it's his feel. Is that the thing? That's the thing In the same way that people go, you know, did you ever chin the vocals or I was like no, no, not not fair. It's not not for any moral standpoint, just the fact it's not going to sound as good. Yeah, it's not going to be as good. It's not gonna it's not going to be it'll be less believable. Yeah. Yeah. And there's things like, you know, when I did Let It Be and when we did the Get Back, I mixt let it be. And there's the thing on the piano as a mistake on the piano I heard for the first time, it's like great. I mean, if it's been there, you know, that's that's that's a human playing the piano. Yeah. You know, have you ever DJed, because what you're describing in knowing what works with what, that's really what it DJ does does. I've always thought about it. It's fun. Yeah, it's that and it's and I was in a place the other then that's a great djai. I was thinking the ability to. I just think my brain works fast enough. Have you seen Aba Voyage? No oh worth seeing because it's truly like time traveling. Yeah yeah, I mean they come out on stage and it's nineteen seventy nine minutes ago. It's surreal. Yeah, a few minutes ago and see it. I just haven't haven't gone to see it yet. I kind of like it's funny. It's that. And obviously because the Beatles, like I asked about this kind of stuff all the time. I think we can't cheat time, but we can travel time. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, you can visit and anything anything makes anythink anyone like you got Aba Voyage and if it makes you feel elated and you're there with them, that anything makes people feel stuff is great. But you know what I mean, that doesn't harm you. No, no, no, it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. Yes, I I don't think it's sacrilegious at all. No, no, no. And also what we can be the most people sort of have pretentious views in this People aren't people that on there there are preservations of discovery and learning doing what I mean by that, it's like it's like, you know, my kids listen to music in a complete different way that I did. I have two teenage daughters and they'll go, hey, have you heard this band? They're really good. They're called Fleetwood Mac And you go, yeah, I have. How can you've heard of them? Think well, and you don't want to kind of say because they've been around. Yeah, but it's like that's great, that's great. You know, it's like yes, you know. I remember my daughter saying listen to the chain and like going this this, you know, the breakdown, the baseline, the base section. This should be used for television programs like this was used for the beginning of Grand Prix in Britain formul one. But all of my life that was and it's that you just go. And it's the same way if the Revolver comes on, you know. I remember we listened to Liverya Rodriguez. I mean, that's a good album, and then we're listening to Arctic Monkeys and then Yes Yesterday comes on in the car and I go Yesterday and my daughter guess it's a good song, Dad, and you go, yeah, it is. It's timeless. That's the point. Yeah. I can remember when I was a little kid going to the record store at that time, I was only buying seven inch singles. There were albums obviously in the store, but I was buying songs. So all of the things that I were buying were things that I heard on the radio, and they were just like they were the songs of the moment. Yeah, And I didn't really understand what all the other records were. And I remember I heard a Chuck Berry song on the radio, and then I went to the store and I got the chuck Berry single and I went to the front and I said, as Chuck Berry made an album yet, yeah, And they walked me over to this section and chuck Berry had fifty albums. I was like, that was my first experience, like, oh oh so this it's not only just the single now, but that's the thing. It's like, but that's you know, it's great. It's great, like even now discovering new stuff or I love when someone puts on music yeah, opposed to be being freed from it or then you go what's this yeah, and just being open. So it's best. Yeah, it's the best thing. It's like, I want is this? This is great? Yeah. I also I get mixed up between records that I've worked on and not worked on just because I listened to so much most of them. Usually yes, but sometimes I'll be somewhere and I'll hear something it's like, wow, where do we make this? And then I'm listen thinking it's like and then I'm listening closer and it's like, no, no, that's Led Zeppelin. I wasn't there. It's like, it's so weird. And then the other side, I was at this hi fi convention. I heard the song that was incredible and I had no idea what it was and I she zammed it and it was something that I produced and just completely blocked it out. Yeah, or you get I get told about something I've done. Yeah, I don't, well go oh, you know, you know when you're just like, I don't know, but you don't. You just move on. You make stuff and you move on, and exactly, there's a big volume of stuff going by. Yeah, it's it's just it's just a fact. Just to be in work is nice. I mean, you know, there's the thing you can't forget that. Yeah, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you, Rick A pleasure. I hope it was okay with you were fantastic. Yeah, it was fantastic and I look forward to us doing this again whenever where, whenever the stars listen, listen, I will be happy to talk to you, recorded or not recorded, Actually the same thing for you. Now. It's might tend to ask you questions I would love to do. We'll do that. Thanks again to Giles Martin for sharing some stories and the process behind remixing the Beatles Revolver. You can hear that new Revolver mix along with other songs he's produced at broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ventaladay, and Eric Sammon. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show, please remember to share rate and review us on your podcast. App Our theme musics by Kenny Beats, Justin Rishmin,