Happy Friday, everybody. I hope you guys had a great week. I missed you, guys. What did I miss on the show? What's been going on in the world?

Happy Friday, everybody. I hope you guys had a great week. I missed you, guys. What did I miss on the show? What's been going on in the world?

Have you ever heard of Signal?

Have you ever heard of Signal?

I'm learning I'm hearing about it more and more, actually hearing about it more and more.

I'm learning I'm hearing about it more and more, actually hearing about it more and more.

Ran and Sucker argued a little bit. Yeah.

Ran and Sucker argued a little bit. Yeah.

I actually, to be totally honest with you, I watched every show because I was I mean, so this is where I realized actually the value of our show because there was nowhere else that I would have been able to go to like get a rundown of all the stories that we cover and like the particular perspective and whatever.

I actually, to be totally honest with you, I watched every show because I was I mean, so this is where I realized actually the value of our show because there was nowhere else that I would have been able to go to like get a rundown of all the stories that we cover and like the particular perspective and whatever.

So I was I valued it as a consumer this week.

So I was I valued it as a consumer this week.

It is true. It's like, yeah, that's nobody else is doing that.

It is true. It's like, yeah, that's nobody else is doing that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and you know, after the first say, you know, five minutes, sometimes you can move on to the next one kind of get where we're going. But yeah, there's nowhere else that really is going to and also give you that level of depth that Jefferson Morley one went really great.

Yeah, and you know, after the first say, you know, five minutes, sometimes you can move on to the next one kind of get where we're going. But yeah, there's nowhere else that really is going to and also give you that level of depth that Jefferson Morley one went really great.

Yeah, you know he was. I saw him tweeting this morning.

Yeah, you know he was. I saw him tweeting this morning.

Ryan.

Ryan.

I don't know if you saw that or maybe it was from yesterday, but I saw it this morning. He was like, you know, I did a bunch of interviews with various right wing outlets, but the one that really tells the story best is the one that I did with He specifically shouted out you and breaking points.

I don't know if you saw that or maybe it was from yesterday, but I saw it this morning. He was like, you know, I did a bunch of interviews with various right wing outlets, but the one that really tells the story best is the one that I did with He specifically shouted out you and breaking points.

Cool.

Cool.

Yeah, which was really cool.

Yeah, which was really cool.

Sports called it a must read or a must watch, and oh really that gave it a boost.

Sports called it a must read or a must watch, and oh really that gave it a boost.

Oh that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.

Oh that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.

No, I thought you guys coverage the whole signal thing was like the most you know, insightful that I could find anywhere. And of course we've got a bunch more updates on that one. There's a bunch of kind of really interesting election updates. At least Stephonic is that how you say.

No, I thought you guys coverage the whole signal thing was like the most you know, insightful that I could find anywhere. And of course we've got a bunch more updates on that one. There's a bunch of kind of really interesting election updates. At least Stephonic is that how you say.

Your last name? I always so discoured us.

Your last name? I always so discoured us.

She had her nomination for you an ambassador pulled because it seems like they're nervous about losing that seat, which is like a very should be easy to hold for Republican but apparently it's not. And then, uh, we've got some moves with regard to RFK Junior and cutting ten ten thousand jobs over at AJS, which I want to talk about as well. But Ryan, Let's start with this because you kind of called this so apparently so when you guys were doing coverage, you were like, you know, with this whole signal Gate thing, very possible that in these messages they burned some human intel source on the ground. And now we're finding out that that appears to not only be true, but it was actually at least one Israeli source that they may have that they may have burned. Here, go ahead and talk a little bit about this, and I'll pull it up.

She had her nomination for you an ambassador pulled because it seems like they're nervous about losing that seat, which is like a very should be easy to hold for Republican but apparently it's not. And then, uh, we've got some moves with regard to RFK Junior and cutting ten ten thousand jobs over at AJS, which I want to talk about as well. But Ryan, Let's start with this because you kind of called this so apparently so when you guys were doing coverage, you were like, you know, with this whole signal Gate thing, very possible that in these messages they burned some human intel source on the ground. And now we're finding out that that appears to not only be true, but it was actually at least one Israeli source that they may have that they may have burned. Here, go ahead and talk a little bit about this, and I'll pull it up.

You're talking.

You're talking.

It's the exchange where Mike Waltz says something completely inscrutable.

It's the exchange where Mike Waltz says something completely inscrutable.

Uh.

Uh.

Jd Vance says what and Mike Waltz says, sorry, typing fast. We have you know, positive ID that this terrorist or the senior hoothy figure turned away some you know, some senior figure in the missile program for the houthies was in the apartment building that we just collapsed, like, so they had a positive idea of that. And yeah, what I had said yesterday morning on the show is that the most likely way you get a positive ID on something like that is from a person who is there and who told you, hey, dude is in the building, because just flying a drone over top of the building is very unlikely to be able to give you that level of intelligence like you need gate analysis and like like they just can't pull that off, and they wouldn't and they're like.

Jd Vance says what and Mike Waltz says, sorry, typing fast. We have you know, positive ID that this terrorist or the senior hoothy figure turned away some you know, some senior figure in the missile program for the houthies was in the apartment building that we just collapsed, like, so they had a positive idea of that. And yeah, what I had said yesterday morning on the show is that the most likely way you get a positive ID on something like that is from a person who is there and who told you, hey, dude is in the building, because just flying a drone over top of the building is very unlikely to be able to give you that level of intelligence like you need gate analysis and like like they just can't pull that off, and they wouldn't and they're like.

You don't think paleers figure that out.

You don't think paleers figure that out.

They have not.

They have not.

And also there'd be like a seven there'd be like a seven second window where the guy's going from like his car into the building where the drone would have to be perfectly positioned, and even then like capturing it in anything other than a kind of grainy like this this idea that we all have from Mission Impossible where we're like computer enhance, like that doesn't boom all of a sudden match with everyone in the world boom and you got it like that that's not actually a real thing. So the way they actually do this is you have a guy who you're paying and he is like narking out to somebody. In this case, it was to Israel, and then Israel's relaying back to the United States. And so that was from reading the signal chat that was the most obvious like explanation that there was a human source that they had there, which means now the who these and everybody else you know, Iranians whoever else are trying to figure out, Okay, who do we know who? Like is in that area that would have had access to this information? You know, there may be people getting tortured, like as we speak, trying trying to divine the identity of this person. And so I'm a moron, I have no security clearance, I've never worked in national security and just looking at the signal chat, I could we know of Well, that's right, that's right. I would say that now, I would say that so if I can figure that out, like, how can our national security advisor not think, oh, that that's actually not something we should expose. Jeffrey Goldberg had already done them a huge favor by not publishing the chat where they all celebrated the collapsing of a building, right by not posting the chat where they talked about having a basically a human source on the ground, and they baited him into posting it by calling him a liar, like they basically forced him.

And also there'd be like a seven there'd be like a seven second window where the guy's going from like his car into the building where the drone would have to be perfectly positioned, and even then like capturing it in anything other than a kind of grainy like this this idea that we all have from Mission Impossible where we're like computer enhance, like that doesn't boom all of a sudden match with everyone in the world boom and you got it like that that's not actually a real thing. So the way they actually do this is you have a guy who you're paying and he is like narking out to somebody. In this case, it was to Israel, and then Israel's relaying back to the United States. And so that was from reading the signal chat that was the most obvious like explanation that there was a human source that they had there, which means now the who these and everybody else you know, Iranians whoever else are trying to figure out, Okay, who do we know who? Like is in that area that would have had access to this information? You know, there may be people getting tortured, like as we speak, trying trying to divine the identity of this person. And so I'm a moron, I have no security clearance, I've never worked in national security and just looking at the signal chat, I could we know of Well, that's right, that's right. I would say that now, I would say that so if I can figure that out, like, how can our national security advisor not think, oh, that that's actually not something we should expose. Jeffrey Goldberg had already done them a huge favor by not publishing the chat where they all celebrated the collapsing of a building, right by not posting the chat where they talked about having a basically a human source on the ground, and they baited him into posting it by calling him a liar, like they basically forced him.

So he was trying to do them every favor he possibly could.

So he was trying to do them every favor he possibly could.

He really was.

He really was.

And if you're guilty, and you know you're guilty, you could just go back and read your chats one of those people. It's four week disappearing messages, they still had the chats. You just go back and look at them, be like, oh, this would actually be really bad for us and for our source if this gets out. So we're gonna apologize for this, say it was a huge mistake, and we're going to move on. Instead, they're like, this guy's a hoax liar who hacked his way onto our signal chat and there was nothing classified.

And if you're guilty, and you know you're guilty, you could just go back and read your chats one of those people. It's four week disappearing messages, they still had the chats. You just go back and look at them, be like, oh, this would actually be really bad for us and for our source if this gets out. So we're gonna apologize for this, say it was a huge mistake, and we're going to move on. Instead, they're like, this guy's a hoax liar who hacked his way onto our signal chat and there was nothing classified.

There as contact sucked into Mike Waltson's and so they forced, Hey, when that happens, he did not want.

There as contact sucked into Mike Waltson's and so they forced, Hey, when that happens, he did not want.

To post that stuff because he is in line. We will talk about this in a second. Was the objective, which is to bomb the Hoothies? Yeah, which is why it works. Just bomb them.

To post that stuff because he is in line. We will talk about this in a second. Was the objective, which is to bomb the Hoothies? Yeah, which is why it works. Just bomb them.

I mean, that's why he's in Mike Waltz's phone, because they are simpatico on a bunch of like their neocon war aims, and so you know, as even though one is technically a Republican, one is technically liberal in this sort of stuff, they are very much aligned, which is likely how his contact got sucked into Mike Wilson's phone. I mean it also, Emily, it just makes it not that it wasn't already utterly preposterous, but like, obviously this information was classified, and it's just insulting to all of our intelligence to pretend that it wasn't, given that how much they classify and overclassify absolutely everything, and you think that the you know, location of this is rarely human intelligence source is not going to be classified information like this would be some of the most highly sensitive and protected information. And it also to me, you know, one of the you guys covered this ably, I mean fantastically this week, and I don't have any points to make that weren't already made quite adequately by you know, you guys and Shagara on the show this week.

I mean, that's why he's in Mike Waltz's phone, because they are simpatico on a bunch of like their neocon war aims, and so you know, as even though one is technically a Republican, one is technically liberal in this sort of stuff, they are very much aligned, which is likely how his contact got sucked into Mike Wilson's phone. I mean it also, Emily, it just makes it not that it wasn't already utterly preposterous, but like, obviously this information was classified, and it's just insulting to all of our intelligence to pretend that it wasn't, given that how much they classify and overclassify absolutely everything, and you think that the you know, location of this is rarely human intelligence source is not going to be classified information like this would be some of the most highly sensitive and protected information. And it also to me, you know, one of the you guys covered this ably, I mean fantastically this week, and I don't have any points to make that weren't already made quite adequately by you know, you guys and Shagara on the show this week.

But like even the.

But like even the.

Inclusion of someone like Scott Besson on this show, like why does the Treasury Secretary need to know about this? And to me, the whole thing just gives like children playing war games basically, you know, the whole tenor of it. The lack of any sort of consideration that this is a civilian building and you know, civilians who you've just killed in service of this, The lack of any This was the part that's making me crazy is like they're they're all high fiving and like you know, sending their little emoji celebrations over because the bomb went boom without a single word of consideration whether this policy is actually going to accomplish a single thing, the reason being that they know what's not going to so it's like, what are we even doing here? What are we doing here?

Inclusion of someone like Scott Besson on this show, like why does the Treasury Secretary need to know about this? And to me, the whole thing just gives like children playing war games basically, you know, the whole tenor of it. The lack of any sort of consideration that this is a civilian building and you know, civilians who you've just killed in service of this, The lack of any This was the part that's making me crazy is like they're they're all high fiving and like you know, sending their little emoji celebrations over because the bomb went boom without a single word of consideration whether this policy is actually going to accomplish a single thing, the reason being that they know what's not going to so it's like, what are we even doing here? What are we doing here?

Jeffrey Goldberg also, I think, ends up looking foolish for trying to have like kept this information quiet and then being because in his original story he says something's the extent where he's like, it was too it's too sensitive to release, so I won't, and then after being goaded, it's like, oh, okay, actually I guess I can do it. So, you know, it's at the same time, like that's actually what gave the Trump administration the permission. They feel like they got the permission to like not pressure Mike Waltz to leave. Is like they all were sending press releases about Goldberg then releasing the information and they're like, well, we can now spend this as fake news, as an attack from Jeffrey Bill.

Jeffrey Goldberg also, I think, ends up looking foolish for trying to have like kept this information quiet and then being because in his original story he says something's the extent where he's like, it was too it's too sensitive to release, so I won't, and then after being goaded, it's like, oh, okay, actually I guess I can do it. So, you know, it's at the same time, like that's actually what gave the Trump administration the permission. They feel like they got the permission to like not pressure Mike Waltz to leave. Is like they all were sending press releases about Goldberg then releasing the information and they're like, well, we can now spend this as fake news, as an attack from Jeffrey Bill.

They all had, they all had the chat like they knew they were.

They all had, they all had the chat like they knew they were.

It's stupid. Yeah, I mean, it's stupid, but it's like from a political perspective, they were like, oh, we can now jump on this. And that's what's kept Mike Waltz in the role because he's that unique figure that is like trusted by the national security establishment but also has friends in MAGA world, and there aren't many people like that. So he's one of those that's like, protect him at all costs if you're in the national security world, because they don't. They don't really trust a lot of the other people in those circles.

It's stupid. Yeah, I mean, it's stupid, but it's like from a political perspective, they were like, oh, we can now jump on this. And that's what's kept Mike Waltz in the role because he's that unique figure that is like trusted by the national security establishment but also has friends in MAGA world, and there aren't many people like that. So he's one of those that's like, protect him at all costs if you're in the national security world, because they don't. They don't really trust a lot of the other people in those circles.

But you know, I do think if Goldberg had immediately released everything, which you know, as a journalist, I think he should have, then they would have made the story about like, how could you compromise this, you know, intelligence.

But you know, I do think if Goldberg had immediately released everything, which you know, as a journalist, I think he should have, then they would have made the story about like, how could you compromise this, you know, intelligence.

Story, how to you on the hook?

Story, how to you on the hook?

And he would be on the hook. So, I mean, I think that was so. I think they could have more successfully actually made the story about him if he had gone ahead and released what truly is sensitive national you know, security intelligence information speak of Goldberg though, I mean, this is so this, this is so on the nose, So he gets asked about the actual contents, not the like process of using signal, which I don't want to downplay because obviously and this is this is part that I don't think has gotten maybe enough attention, not that no one said it, but I do think it's important, Like this is not the only time they're using signal. Even Pam BONDI just got asked, why are you going to keep using signal and she's like, yes, basically we are. And I think this was actually part of Project twenty twenty five. The reason to use signal is because you evade FOYA requirements. So the journalists like Ryan and Ken Clippenstein or whoever else wants to get their hands on, like what the hell is actually going on here will never be able to because the messages disappear and they're lost, and that's it. So it's an attempt, a systematic attempt to evade scrutiny and the FOYA legal requirements, which I know is very like Pollyanna at this point to expecting these people to like care about what the law is. But that part is not, you know, it's not insignificant. But Goldberg is much less comfortable when he's outside of talking about like the failures of the process here and is asked about the actual substance. So you can see here he gets asked by NPR about the fifty three people that the US killed in Yemen, and they say, there's little talk of the fact that this attack killed fifty three people, as we mentioned, including women and children, the civilian toll of these American strikes. Are we bearing the lead here? Goldberg says, well, those unfortunately, those aren't confirmed numbers. Those are provided by the Huthis and the Hoofi Health Ministry. I guess, so we don't know that for sure. Yeah, I mean, obviously we're well, I don't know if we're bearing the lead because obviously huge breaches and national security and safety of information. That's a very very important story, obviously, and one of the reasons, you know it's a very important story is that the Republicans themselves consider that to be an important story when it's Hillary Clinton joined the deed, right, So that's obviously hugely important. But yeah, I think that covering what's going on in Yemen, the Arab and Iran back ter rist organization, the Hohothis that are that are firing missiles at Israel and disrupting global shipping and occupy half of Yemen and all kinds of other things. In the US, you know, and the Trump administration criticizing the Biden's response, and Europe wants Trump to do more. I mean, yeah, there's there's a huge story in Yemen, but Yemen is, as you know, is one of the more inaccessible places for Western journalists. So maybe this becomes like a substitute for a discussion of Yemen. I don't know, Ryan, your response to that very eloquate explanation.

And he would be on the hook. So, I mean, I think that was so. I think they could have more successfully actually made the story about him if he had gone ahead and released what truly is sensitive national you know, security intelligence information speak of Goldberg though, I mean, this is so this, this is so on the nose, So he gets asked about the actual contents, not the like process of using signal, which I don't want to downplay because obviously and this is this is part that I don't think has gotten maybe enough attention, not that no one said it, but I do think it's important, Like this is not the only time they're using signal. Even Pam BONDI just got asked, why are you going to keep using signal and she's like, yes, basically we are. And I think this was actually part of Project twenty twenty five. The reason to use signal is because you evade FOYA requirements. So the journalists like Ryan and Ken Clippenstein or whoever else wants to get their hands on, like what the hell is actually going on here will never be able to because the messages disappear and they're lost, and that's it. So it's an attempt, a systematic attempt to evade scrutiny and the FOYA legal requirements, which I know is very like Pollyanna at this point to expecting these people to like care about what the law is. But that part is not, you know, it's not insignificant. But Goldberg is much less comfortable when he's outside of talking about like the failures of the process here and is asked about the actual substance. So you can see here he gets asked by NPR about the fifty three people that the US killed in Yemen, and they say, there's little talk of the fact that this attack killed fifty three people, as we mentioned, including women and children, the civilian toll of these American strikes. Are we bearing the lead here? Goldberg says, well, those unfortunately, those aren't confirmed numbers. Those are provided by the Huthis and the Hoofi Health Ministry. I guess, so we don't know that for sure. Yeah, I mean, obviously we're well, I don't know if we're bearing the lead because obviously huge breaches and national security and safety of information. That's a very very important story, obviously, and one of the reasons, you know it's a very important story is that the Republicans themselves consider that to be an important story when it's Hillary Clinton joined the deed, right, So that's obviously hugely important. But yeah, I think that covering what's going on in Yemen, the Arab and Iran back ter rist organization, the Hohothis that are that are firing missiles at Israel and disrupting global shipping and occupy half of Yemen and all kinds of other things. In the US, you know, and the Trump administration criticizing the Biden's response, and Europe wants Trump to do more. I mean, yeah, there's there's a huge story in Yemen, but Yemen is, as you know, is one of the more inaccessible places for Western journalists. So maybe this becomes like a substitute for a discussion of Yemen. I don't know, Ryan, your response to that very eloquate explanation.

I mean, we have a we have a journalist and Sunnah Shoib almost mil MASSI it's not it's not inaccessible. People can go there. What is it inaccessible? Is Gaza? I mean Western journalists completely banned from there. For Jeffrey Goldberg to call what the houthis and occupying power when he like recoils at the term occupation for Israel's occupation is also wild. But yeah, the whole thing shows like how blind the blind he is on this entire question, Like it never occurred to him that the collapse of this apartment building is a war crime, right, It never dawned on him that there actually isn't any point in this bombing that it's not going to end the blockade. It's just it's just going to blow some things up and it doesn't occur to him that all of these f eighteen's and all of these tomahawks can fly at this poor country in the middle of the night. But the claim that they might kill fifty three people is, you know, a preposterous claim made by the Hoothy run health ministry. Do you think missiles do? And what do you think bombs do when they land in the middle on.

I mean, we have a we have a journalist and Sunnah Shoib almost mil MASSI it's not it's not inaccessible. People can go there. What is it inaccessible? Is Gaza? I mean Western journalists completely banned from there. For Jeffrey Goldberg to call what the houthis and occupying power when he like recoils at the term occupation for Israel's occupation is also wild. But yeah, the whole thing shows like how blind the blind he is on this entire question, Like it never occurred to him that the collapse of this apartment building is a war crime, right, It never dawned on him that there actually isn't any point in this bombing that it's not going to end the blockade. It's just it's just going to blow some things up and it doesn't occur to him that all of these f eighteen's and all of these tomahawks can fly at this poor country in the middle of the night. But the claim that they might kill fifty three people is, you know, a preposterous claim made by the Hoothy run health ministry. Do you think missiles do? And what do you think bombs do when they land in the middle on.

An apartment building that collapse? Because yeah, he's you know, seeing his girlfriend there or whatever. And I I mean, I also like the Hoothy led health ministry. It's the exact same language that he used to crowdit the Palestinian Civilian detl in Gaza as the Hamas led health ministry. It can never just be like here's how many people were killed Emily. Another aspect, I'm genuinely curious what you guys think of this is.

An apartment building that collapse? Because yeah, he's you know, seeing his girlfriend there or whatever. And I I mean, I also like the Hoothy led health ministry. It's the exact same language that he used to crowdit the Palestinian Civilian detl in Gaza as the Hamas led health ministry. It can never just be like here's how many people were killed Emily. Another aspect, I'm genuinely curious what you guys think of this is.

Like Trump hovers over this signal chat but like.

Like Trump hovers over this signal chat but like.

In a very bizarre way, like you know, jd Vance is trying to make this very milk toast argument about like, oh, we're doing too much for the Europeans. I'm not sure Trump realizes how this is dissonant from his messaging with regard to Europe, but it seems like they're all sort of freelancing and doing what they want without actually having Trump, you know, total buy in, or they're sort of like projecting onto Trump what they think that he should be thinking. And we've had now this series of series of questions aimed at Trump, where Hill at least claim maybe he's just pretending that he's like, oh, this is the first I've heard of. This is the first I've heard of that I don't even know what's going on there.

In a very bizarre way, like you know, jd Vance is trying to make this very milk toast argument about like, oh, we're doing too much for the Europeans. I'm not sure Trump realizes how this is dissonant from his messaging with regard to Europe, but it seems like they're all sort of freelancing and doing what they want without actually having Trump, you know, total buy in, or they're sort of like projecting onto Trump what they think that he should be thinking. And we've had now this series of series of questions aimed at Trump, where Hill at least claim maybe he's just pretending that he's like, oh, this is the first I've heard of. This is the first I've heard of that I don't even know what's going on there.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It just feels to me more more like he really is more checked out of his own presidency, except on the things like terrorists, you know, the things that he's like directly interested in, but he's outsourced so much of his presidency to Elon Musk, And then in this chat group, it also felt like he was sort of, you know, removed from what I think would be an important part of his Middle Eastern policy here.

It just feels to me more more like he really is more checked out of his own presidency, except on the things like terrorists, you know, the things that he's like directly interested in, but he's outsourced so much of his presidency to Elon Musk, And then in this chat group, it also felt like he was sort of, you know, removed from what I think would be an important part of his Middle Eastern policy here.

Well, that's one of the things that I think resonated, or one of the reasons I think this signal chat resonated so much is that it's the weird, very familiar I think, like rhythm. If for anybody who works in an office of people who are trying to collaborate on a job and are like in different places and don't have time for like a full meeting together. Except applied to life and death foreign policy, it's a very strange thing, and it sounds like you're reading it without having all of the context from the inside. It sounds like Hegseeth and Waltz somehow secured byan from Trump and are just executing the policy. And JD. Vance is saying, well, when the President gave the green light, I don't think we fully fleshed out the implications of this decision. And it is true that the lead has been buried this entire week. I interviewed Christian Parenti yesterday and he was talking about how this is a significant departure from the foreign policy that Donald Trump ran on. This is a war that he explicitly came out against, and here you see, very casually in a group chat, that war being perpetuated with his blessing, but not with his direct involvement. Instead with a direct involvement of Stephen Miller, Susy Wiles, and then a sort of limp thumbs up from JD. Vance, who buckles when he realizes that it's going to be a big thing if he wants to be like the stick in the mud or the like to actually like obstruct this process. So it's very very strange to try and figure out what role Trump exactly played in this debate, if there was a debate at all. It does seem like jd Vance is implying in his point that there hasn't been a significant conversation that the President doesn't fully realize his side of the argument, and that's very strange.

Well, that's one of the things that I think resonated, or one of the reasons I think this signal chat resonated so much is that it's the weird, very familiar I think, like rhythm. If for anybody who works in an office of people who are trying to collaborate on a job and are like in different places and don't have time for like a full meeting together. Except applied to life and death foreign policy, it's a very strange thing, and it sounds like you're reading it without having all of the context from the inside. It sounds like Hegseeth and Waltz somehow secured byan from Trump and are just executing the policy. And JD. Vance is saying, well, when the President gave the green light, I don't think we fully fleshed out the implications of this decision. And it is true that the lead has been buried this entire week. I interviewed Christian Parenti yesterday and he was talking about how this is a significant departure from the foreign policy that Donald Trump ran on. This is a war that he explicitly came out against, and here you see, very casually in a group chat, that war being perpetuated with his blessing, but not with his direct involvement. Instead with a direct involvement of Stephen Miller, Susy Wiles, and then a sort of limp thumbs up from JD. Vance, who buckles when he realizes that it's going to be a big thing if he wants to be like the stick in the mud or the like to actually like obstruct this process. So it's very very strange to try and figure out what role Trump exactly played in this debate, if there was a debate at all. It does seem like jd Vance is implying in his point that there hasn't been a significant conversation that the President doesn't fully realize his side of the argument, and that's very strange.

Yeah, yeah, the debate. The debate gets ended by Steven Miller, who comes in and as Deputy chief of staff, like that, he is the guy who, on behalf of the principle in any office and including the presidency, you know, would have the authority to like ended the debate by saying, hey, guys, ever, glad to hear everybody's input. I've heard from the boss. The boss says, this is the judgment call, Like that is that's how these offices go. He didn't quite say that, though, Oops, that's a Jordan Sheridan's livestream just started, So he didn't quite say that. He said, my understanding from our conversation with him basically was that this is a green light and then everybody's like, Okay, well let's go. It reminded me of there's this and producer Griffin, who's listening in here, would would remember this story. There's this like scene early in Lenin's Tyranny where he like crosses off a few names on a list in a meeting. Okay, because they were done, you know this story, because they were done talking about them, yes, And like he moves the papers over here. I think Berea or whoever his hit man at the time was like collects these papers and he sees these like names crossed off that night, rounds them up and executes them. And the next day Lennon's like, what happened where these people? He's like, you told me to kill them? He's like, no, bro, Like I was just like doodling on the paper.

Yeah, yeah, the debate. The debate gets ended by Steven Miller, who comes in and as Deputy chief of staff, like that, he is the guy who, on behalf of the principle in any office and including the presidency, you know, would have the authority to like ended the debate by saying, hey, guys, ever, glad to hear everybody's input. I've heard from the boss. The boss says, this is the judgment call, Like that is that's how these offices go. He didn't quite say that, though, Oops, that's a Jordan Sheridan's livestream just started, So he didn't quite say that. He said, my understanding from our conversation with him basically was that this is a green light and then everybody's like, Okay, well let's go. It reminded me of there's this and producer Griffin, who's listening in here, would would remember this story. There's this like scene early in Lenin's Tyranny where he like crosses off a few names on a list in a meeting. Okay, because they were done, you know this story, because they were done talking about them, yes, And like he moves the papers over here. I think Berea or whoever his hit man at the time was like collects these papers and he sees these like names crossed off that night, rounds them up and executes them. And the next day Lennon's like, what happened where these people? He's like, you told me to kill them? He's like, no, bro, Like I was just like doodling on the paper.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

Which is why you need some processes in place when you're going to kill people. It can't be Stephen Miller divining what Trump might have been saying in a meeting, like Trump needs to like be told direct, like, hey, here are the plans, like choose one of them, press the button sign here, like do this, so it's very clear you guys all have all seen Trump speak for forty years. He's not that clear, right, people can read into what he's saying what they want to hear. Yeah, so we could then kill people based on that. Based on that is like Soviet level insane.

Which is why you need some processes in place when you're going to kill people. It can't be Stephen Miller divining what Trump might have been saying in a meeting, like Trump needs to like be told direct, like, hey, here are the plans, like choose one of them, press the button sign here, like do this, so it's very clear you guys all have all seen Trump speak for forty years. He's not that clear, right, people can read into what he's saying what they want to hear. Yeah, so we could then kill people based on that. Based on that is like Soviet level insane.

I can imagine, like if this was a e lait chat from the Biden administration and you've got Sullivan and Blincoln and whoever else.

I can imagine, like if this was a e lait chat from the Biden administration and you've got Sullivan and Blincoln and whoever else.

You know, random members.

You know, random members.

I think we think John.

I think we think John.

Harris, you know, like I think he's misunderstanding this. No, I think this is what he really wants. I mean, you know, that would the way that would be interpreted, and I think justly so is like this guy is not really the president, like he's you know, these are the people who are actually making the decisions.

Harris, you know, like I think he's misunderstanding this. No, I think this is what he really wants. I mean, you know, that would the way that would be interpreted, and I think justly so is like this guy is not really the president, like he's you know, these are the people who are actually making the decisions.

They don't even.

They don't even.

They can't even really tell what he thinks, and don't really care what he things. Ultimately, they're like making their own calls in this very ad hoc signal chat group, which to your point, Emily, you know, Telci Gabber gets asked about, hey, where were you when this She's like, I don't really remember, which is probably just a dodge because she wants to dodge accountability.

They can't even really tell what he thinks, and don't really care what he things. Ultimately, they're like making their own calls in this very ad hoc signal chat group, which to your point, Emily, you know, Telci Gabber gets asked about, hey, where were you when this She's like, I don't really remember, which is probably just a dodge because she wants to dodge accountability.

But it definitely had the vibe of.

But it definitely had the vibe of.

Like you're doing eight other things and washing the dishes and like just you know, respect, like let me throw an a emoji so they know that I'm like paying attention to what's going on here. And we're talking about collapsing an apartment building with fifty civilians in or however many people were ultimately killed. And so that's the part of it about it that to me is so it's just deeply disturbing. And then Ryan, you were pointing out this like the just insanity of them all being.

Like you're doing eight other things and washing the dishes and like just you know, respect, like let me throw an a emoji so they know that I'm like paying attention to what's going on here. And we're talking about collapsing an apartment building with fifty civilians in or however many people were ultimately killed. And so that's the part of it about it that to me is so it's just deeply disturbing. And then Ryan, you were pointing out this like the just insanity of them all being.

Oh, great job. Jd.

Oh, great job. Jd.

Van says, oh, excellent. That's when some like you know, fift pound emojis come in or whatever. Once they found out they collapse this apartment building, it's like, you know, you accomplished nothing other than death. And to show you're like patting yourselves on the back for this policy that it's the same policy as the Biden administration, which we already know doesn't work. Like we already know what does work, which is the ceasefire, which you guys just greenlit Israel to end and go back to total siege and complete bombardment.

Van says, oh, excellent. That's when some like you know, fift pound emojis come in or whatever. Once they found out they collapse this apartment building, it's like, you know, you accomplished nothing other than death. And to show you're like patting yourselves on the back for this policy that it's the same policy as the Biden administration, which we already know doesn't work. Like we already know what does work, which is the ceasefire, which you guys just greenlit Israel to end and go back to total siege and complete bombardment.

So that's the part that too.

So that's the part that too.

It's like, you know, these people have lost their minds actually like to live in this delusion like you deserve congratulations for this in any sort of way. Is the part that I just keep coming back to as being completely and utterly insane, not to mention just the you know, full normalizing of there's no like, oh, well, how many civilians are there nothing, It's just and I do think this is partly a Gaza effect where murdering civilians, not that we haven't murdered plenty of civilians.

It's like, you know, these people have lost their minds actually like to live in this delusion like you deserve congratulations for this in any sort of way. Is the part that I just keep coming back to as being completely and utterly insane, not to mention just the you know, full normalizing of there's no like, oh, well, how many civilians are there nothing, It's just and I do think this is partly a Gaza effect where murdering civilians, not that we haven't murdered plenty of civilians.

In the past, et cetera.

In the past, et cetera.

I'm not trying to whitewash the war on terror and how everything went in Iraq, in Afghanistan, et cetera. But there's not even a thought of what is the collateral damage here? And we all know how in the Osama bin Lana raid, how they took a riskier maneuver in order to avoid civilian collateral damage because those were things that were at least considered at the time for a vastly higher level target than whoever this dude you know that they allegedly killed, was and and it's just it's grotesque to see like the value of human life has just been utterly discarded here.

I'm not trying to whitewash the war on terror and how everything went in Iraq, in Afghanistan, et cetera. But there's not even a thought of what is the collateral damage here? And we all know how in the Osama bin Lana raid, how they took a riskier maneuver in order to avoid civilian collateral damage because those were things that were at least considered at the time for a vastly higher level target than whoever this dude you know that they allegedly killed, was and and it's just it's grotesque to see like the value of human life has just been utterly discarded here.

Yeah, today they would just drop a nuke on a badabad. That's right, and be like we think we killed him.

Yeah, today they would just drop a nuke on a badabad. That's right, and be like we think we killed him.

Yeah, that's that's exactly right, that's exactly right. The found emoji American flag firectory.

Yeah, that's that's exactly right, that's exactly right. The found emoji American flag firectory.

Victory is ours always yeah, always relevant. But Ryan, when you were pulling up that Intercept article you wrote about Biden and the these, it just I was thinking, the Trump administration campaigned on being sort of different from the forever wars neo conservative foreign policy establishment, and what we see in this incident is how dangerous. Yeah are they stopping these No? Are they going to to continue?

Victory is ours always yeah, always relevant. But Ryan, when you were pulling up that Intercept article you wrote about Biden and the these, it just I was thinking, the Trump administration campaigned on being sort of different from the forever wars neo conservative foreign policy establishment, and what we see in this incident is how dangerous. Yeah are they stopping these No? Are they going to to continue?

Yes, which is very trumpy and honestly, you could hear Trump saying that.

Yes, which is very trumpy and honestly, you could hear Trump saying that.

Right, oh yeah, oh yeah. But it's just like war by drone is we've slipped into this era of war by drone things so Obama, but uh, there's nothing different about the Trump policy. There's nothing different about the way that Pete hag Seth and Mike Waltz are approaching war by drone. It's as casual and it's it's like, if I don't know, I think that's what they campaigned against. I think that's what brought you know, this like strange coalition of people together, and it's just slipping into the same routine.

Right, oh yeah, oh yeah. But it's just like war by drone is we've slipped into this era of war by drone things so Obama, but uh, there's nothing different about the Trump policy. There's nothing different about the way that Pete hag Seth and Mike Waltz are approaching war by drone. It's as casual and it's it's like, if I don't know, I think that's what they campaigned against. I think that's what brought you know, this like strange coalition of people together, and it's just slipping into the same routine.

Well, in the Hagstad point is an important one.

Well, in the Hagstad point is an important one.

Because we were sold, oh, he is a different guy than the one who was out there making his career on cheerleading for the Rock War, the guy who was cheerleading the Ukraine War, you know, the guy who came around to opposing the Iraq War. Like I don't know, five years ago, after Hillary Clinton and everybody else had already changed their minds, he was still like, go Iraq War. So we had been sold that he'd had this total ideological remake. Well, it's very easy to oppose a war after that war has become profoundly unpopular, either among the broader public or with the Ukraine War among the Republican base. It's a much different thing too in real time, when it's difficult, when it's unpopular, say no, I don't think that this serves, you know, from their perspective, like America first, I don't think this serves American interests. What are we doing here? This is not what we campaign on, etc. And to me, what comes out in this chat is that, like, the skepticism of his evolution is quite warranted. This is still the guy who is totally ready to you know, drop a bomb or go to war or whatever. Is the sort of like, you know, popular.

Because we were sold, oh, he is a different guy than the one who was out there making his career on cheerleading for the Rock War, the guy who was cheerleading the Ukraine War, you know, the guy who came around to opposing the Iraq War. Like I don't know, five years ago, after Hillary Clinton and everybody else had already changed their minds, he was still like, go Iraq War. So we had been sold that he'd had this total ideological remake. Well, it's very easy to oppose a war after that war has become profoundly unpopular, either among the broader public or with the Ukraine War among the Republican base. It's a much different thing too in real time, when it's difficult, when it's unpopular, say no, I don't think that this serves, you know, from their perspective, like America first, I don't think this serves American interests. What are we doing here? This is not what we campaign on, etc. And to me, what comes out in this chat is that, like, the skepticism of his evolution is quite warranted. This is still the guy who is totally ready to you know, drop a bomb or go to war or whatever. Is the sort of like, you know, popular.

Thing in the moment.

Thing in the moment.

He is not the one who's going to be planning a flag and making the difficult case because you know, again, I think Jady Vans's argument here was sort of silly and like besides the point and whatever, but he should have had an ally in that chat in Pete Hagsatt saying, you know, Jad makes some good points and here's some other things to consider, et cetera. Instead, it's the total opposite. Jady quickly realizes like, I'm the only one here who has any qualms about it, so I'm just going to immediately capitulate and stand out.

He is not the one who's going to be planning a flag and making the difficult case because you know, again, I think Jady Vans's argument here was sort of silly and like besides the point and whatever, but he should have had an ally in that chat in Pete Hagsatt saying, you know, Jad makes some good points and here's some other things to consider, et cetera. Instead, it's the total opposite. Jady quickly realizes like, I'm the only one here who has any qualms about it, so I'm just going to immediately capitulate and stand out.

And and Tulsi and Joe Kent like there should have been there should have been four, and.

And and Tulsi and Joe Kent like there should have been there should have been four, and.

Maybe Wick Cough, I mean maybe.

Maybe Wick Cough, I mean maybe.

You know Wick Cough. Yeah, if he was like traveling and checked out and it was.

You know Wick Cough. Yeah, if he was like traveling and checked out and it was.

A Moscow Ryan. I think we talked about this on Wednesday. But it's interesting in the chat how Pete Hagsas says his point of contact, which was originally the point of the chat that Mike Waltz put together, was Dan Caldwell and Dan Caldwell comes from the very like skeptical world of Forever Wars, and so you have this strange I guess it is just strange to see people who have talked a lot of talk then come into the administration and in a very early test, fall into old habits.

A Moscow Ryan. I think we talked about this on Wednesday. But it's interesting in the chat how Pete Hagsas says his point of contact, which was originally the point of the chat that Mike Waltz put together, was Dan Caldwell and Dan Caldwell comes from the very like skeptical world of Forever Wars, and so you have this strange I guess it is just strange to see people who have talked a lot of talk then come into the administration and in a very early test, fall into old habits.

It shows the power of the war machine, the momentum of the momentum of the war machine. It's like the two parties now would be the Democrats, who like you know, feel guilty about dropping the bombs and are doing it for humanitarian purposes, and then the MAGA who's dropping the bombs but is angry that they have to do it for Europe. Really, those are those your choices?

It shows the power of the war machine, the momentum of the momentum of the war machine. It's like the two parties now would be the Democrats, who like you know, feel guilty about dropping the bombs and are doing it for humanitarian purposes, and then the MAGA who's dropping the bombs but is angry that they have to do it for Europe. Really, those are those your choices?

Yes, choose wisely America.

Yes, choose wisely America.

Yes, So let's just quickly touch on the politics of this, which is, you know, I mean, it's all of the insane things that have happened in this administration, you know, and doge and tariffs and inflation all everything, right, and this seems to be the scandal that has like really broken through for whatever reason. Harry Enton did a bit on some of the polling around this, so let's go ahead and take a listen to what he had to say about it.

Yes, So let's just quickly touch on the politics of this, which is, you know, I mean, it's all of the insane things that have happened in this administration, you know, and doge and tariffs and inflation all everything, right, and this seems to be the scandal that has like really broken through for whatever reason. Harry Enton did a bit on some of the polling around this, so let's go ahead and take a listen to what he had to say about it.

There's a lot of interest in this story, right. Google searches this week versus last week for these topics. For the Atlantic, how many people are searching for the Atlantic up nine hundred percent, the highest on record since Google searches began they started tracking them back in two thousand and four. How about for Signal, of course, the app on which this all occurred, up over one thousand percent, again the highest on record.

There's a lot of interest in this story, right. Google searches this week versus last week for these topics. For the Atlantic, how many people are searching for the Atlantic up nine hundred percent, the highest on record since Google searches began they started tracking them back in two thousand and four. How about for Signal, of course, the app on which this all occurred, up over one thousand percent, again the highest on record.

It has gone up through the roof on. These were two particular topics.

It has gone up through the roof on. These were two particular topics.

Whether or not people openly end up caring and it changes their minds about the administration, that's one thing. But the interest that this particular point is absolutely there.

Whether or not people openly end up caring and it changes their minds about the administration, that's one thing. But the interest that this particular point is absolutely there.

People are interested in.

People are interested in.

This story right beyond the interest their take on it. You don't read that into Google search, but there is interest, absolutely absolutely. Trump's cabinet, obviously, many of them are on this group chat. Many of them are facing a lot of scrutiny and questions right now. Trump's cabinet to this point, before this, he was already on somewhat I don't know, we call it finn Ice.

This story right beyond the interest their take on it. You don't read that into Google search, but there is interest, absolutely absolutely. Trump's cabinet, obviously, many of them are on this group chat. Many of them are facing a lot of scrutiny and questions right now. Trump's cabinet to this point, before this, he was already on somewhat I don't know, we call it finn Ice.

Yeah, the American people, yeah, absolutely, I mean here we go, all right, disappointed with the administration appointments of these different presidents. You might notice only one of these presidents, only one of these terms that were a majority disappointed. Look at this, in twenty twenty five, fifty two percent were already disappointed with Donald Trump's picks for his administration.

Yeah, the American people, yeah, absolutely, I mean here we go, all right, disappointed with the administration appointments of these different presidents. You might notice only one of these presidents, only one of these terms that were a majority disappointed. Look at this, in twenty twenty five, fifty two percent were already disappointed with Donald Trump's picks for his administration.

That is the first time you get a majority.

That is the first time you get a majority.

Back in twenty seventeen, it was only forty four percent for Donald Trump. Before that, you see sixteen seventeen fourteen, Joe Biden's picks were not in fact pole but less than forty percent disapproved in separate pu poland So the bottom line is, even going into this, there was already a lot of skepticism about Donald Trump's picks for his cabinet, for his appointments. There's no doubt in my mind that this number will almost certainly take a little bit upwards because we already were dealing with the public that was quite skeptical.

Back in twenty seventeen, it was only forty four percent for Donald Trump. Before that, you see sixteen seventeen fourteen, Joe Biden's picks were not in fact pole but less than forty percent disapproved in separate pu poland So the bottom line is, even going into this, there was already a lot of skepticism about Donald Trump's picks for his cabinet, for his appointments. There's no doubt in my mind that this number will almost certainly take a little bit upwards because we already were dealing with the public that was quite skeptical.

This story can only make things.

This story can only make things.

Worse, kake, So there you go.

Worse, kake, So there you go.

I mean, the interest in this has been really high, and I do think it gets to what Emily was saying about how in a sense it's kind of a relatable scandal, but then with this like bizarrely dystopian, like, you know, it just makes you realize like, oh, these people are not really They're not doing some sophisticated, like brilliant analysis. It's not really thought through. There's no like gaming this out. They're approaching this the same way that I approach like planning my kid the snacks for my kid's soccer game or whatever, like what the hell is going on here?

I mean, the interest in this has been really high, and I do think it gets to what Emily was saying about how in a sense it's kind of a relatable scandal, but then with this like bizarrely dystopian, like, you know, it just makes you realize like, oh, these people are not really They're not doing some sophisticated, like brilliant analysis. It's not really thought through. There's no like gaming this out. They're approaching this the same way that I approach like planning my kid the snacks for my kid's soccer game or whatever, like what the hell is going on here?

And accidentally adding people to the chat. And Emily, I missed you on the show yesterday because I mentioned that Andy Cohen made a joke about signal Gate on Watch What Happens Live on Wednesday Night with no context because he knew no context was needed. Everybody watching Bravo is deeply familiar with what's going on. It's and that's that's how you can measure full full like absorption into the public.

And accidentally adding people to the chat. And Emily, I missed you on the show yesterday because I mentioned that Andy Cohen made a joke about signal Gate on Watch What Happens Live on Wednesday Night with no context because he knew no context was needed. Everybody watching Bravo is deeply familiar with what's going on. It's and that's that's how you can measure full full like absorption into the public.

Jeffrey Goldberg did what some of the most his housewives do at a reunion and printed out the text messages. This essentially what Jeffrey Goldberg did, receipts text line screenshots. Yeah, so yeah, he Maybe Jeffrey Goldberg watches. Maybe he that's where he took his cue from when they were trying to get to the Lucy Apple juice, the puppy and Beverly Hills, and they printed out the text messages and brought them to the reunion. We're very off track.

Jeffrey Goldberg did what some of the most his housewives do at a reunion and printed out the text messages. This essentially what Jeffrey Goldberg did, receipts text line screenshots. Yeah, so yeah, he Maybe Jeffrey Goldberg watches. Maybe he that's where he took his cue from when they were trying to get to the Lucy Apple juice, the puppy and Beverly Hills, and they printed out the text messages and brought them to the reunion. We're very off track.

Now, you're completely losing me at this point. But more much of the audience knows what you're talking about.

Now, you're completely losing me at this point. But more much of the audience knows what you're talking about.

Even hold on, let me let me share this there it is.

Even hold on, let me let me share this there it is.

Receipts prove.

Receipts prove.

Time on.

Time on.

I'm glad you did that, right.

I'm glad you did that, right.

That was perfect. That was perfect. Yeah, so I don't know.

That was perfect. That was perfect. Yeah, so I don't know.

It's just the other thing that the last thing I'll say about it is like they have handled it in the worst possible way. You know, if they had done if they had just been like, yeah, we fucked up, next question, you know, like then this would be over because there's nothing interesting to a reporter after you've sort of like admitted it, then everybody just moves on. There's nothing more to like get you on, Like, oh, you said you didn't know Jeffrey Goldwi, here's a picture of you. Like Jeffrey Goldberg now has like I'm sure he could come out with all sorts of other proof that they knew each other, et cetera. And so it just like it keeps them going, It keeps the story alive. And if I fully think that even though this is a totally insane thing to happen. Jeffrey Goldberg to Ryan Swoe, was trying to protect them as best he could. He did not want to release these things. If you had just been like, we screwed up. We're gonna make sure we lock it down. This will never happen again. And by the way, you know, I mean, I do think Mike Waltz should have should resign and be forced out, Like it's such a big fuck up that if that happened, I think it would be done over and everybody would have moved on by now. But because they keep insisting on making these ridiculous Oh that got sucked into my phone and no, actually, like somehow Goldberg hacked in and oh nothing was classified, and oh they weren't war plans, they were attack plans whatever like it.

It's just the other thing that the last thing I'll say about it is like they have handled it in the worst possible way. You know, if they had done if they had just been like, yeah, we fucked up, next question, you know, like then this would be over because there's nothing interesting to a reporter after you've sort of like admitted it, then everybody just moves on. There's nothing more to like get you on, Like, oh, you said you didn't know Jeffrey Goldwi, here's a picture of you. Like Jeffrey Goldberg now has like I'm sure he could come out with all sorts of other proof that they knew each other, et cetera. And so it just like it keeps them going, It keeps the story alive. And if I fully think that even though this is a totally insane thing to happen. Jeffrey Goldberg to Ryan Swoe, was trying to protect them as best he could. He did not want to release these things. If you had just been like, we screwed up. We're gonna make sure we lock it down. This will never happen again. And by the way, you know, I mean, I do think Mike Waltz should have should resign and be forced out, Like it's such a big fuck up that if that happened, I think it would be done over and everybody would have moved on by now. But because they keep insisting on making these ridiculous Oh that got sucked into my phone and no, actually, like somehow Goldberg hacked in and oh nothing was classified, and oh they weren't war plans, they were attack plans whatever like it.

Just of course people are going to keep.

Just of course people are going to keep.

Digging and catching you in the brazen lies and insults to all of our intelligences.

Digging and catching you in the brazen lies and insults to all of our intelligences.

Here, Mike Waltz. I think what the reporting suggests is that Waltz did not offer to resign, and Trump is kind of on the fence and is frustrated about it. But Walts didn't offer to resign. And it seems like Walts does not want to take an L and that's where the disastrous response probably starts and ends, because he then goes on Laura Ingram looking pretty confident, feeling like he can handle this, and Laura Ingram grills him because what she's concerned about is what a lot of people in Maga world are concerned about, who don't trust Mike Waltz and never have t really fully trusted Mike Waltz. They trust more than they trust Mike Pompeo and those types. But they're like, well, why do you have this number in your phone? And he has no good explanation for that. There could be terrible explanations, by the way, from a Maga perspective, maybe he's trying to shut down stories, maybe Jeffrey Goldberg, Like there's all kinds of reasons that he could have Jeffrey Goldberg's umber in his phone, but he doesn't have a good answer for it, and so because of that, he couldn't be honest. And you can't get away with lying over and over again or trying to evade the truth over and over again without looking foolish, and he's ended up looking completely folish. He got caught and the administration now has this albatross of Mike Waltz, even though the neo cons are right it was Pete Hegseeth who then started throwing all of this classified information into the chats Like it wasn't just Mike Waltz, they all And yet, by the way, the other thing to the other point to make to this is nobody cared that Pete Hegseth was sharing the classified information, right, Like, if this was shocking to everybody and something they'd never seen before, a lot of people would be like, hey, let's hold But no, It's like, it's hard to actually even blame Headseth because everyone was clearly accustomed to this and normalized to it. It wasn't It didn't seem to shock anybody or surprise anybody. They probably have been doing this many other times that we just haven't seen. So yeah, no heads are going to end up rolling. But I mean maybe maybe Walts is forced to resign. His credibility internally has been damaged beyond repair. He will never be fully trusted by any like most people inside the administration. Again, he looks stupid to a lot of people who will have a hard time taking your national security advisor seriously if he can't even keep a group chat locked down.

Here, Mike Waltz. I think what the reporting suggests is that Waltz did not offer to resign, and Trump is kind of on the fence and is frustrated about it. But Walts didn't offer to resign. And it seems like Walts does not want to take an L and that's where the disastrous response probably starts and ends, because he then goes on Laura Ingram looking pretty confident, feeling like he can handle this, and Laura Ingram grills him because what she's concerned about is what a lot of people in Maga world are concerned about, who don't trust Mike Waltz and never have t really fully trusted Mike Waltz. They trust more than they trust Mike Pompeo and those types. But they're like, well, why do you have this number in your phone? And he has no good explanation for that. There could be terrible explanations, by the way, from a Maga perspective, maybe he's trying to shut down stories, maybe Jeffrey Goldberg, Like there's all kinds of reasons that he could have Jeffrey Goldberg's umber in his phone, but he doesn't have a good answer for it, and so because of that, he couldn't be honest. And you can't get away with lying over and over again or trying to evade the truth over and over again without looking foolish, and he's ended up looking completely folish. He got caught and the administration now has this albatross of Mike Waltz, even though the neo cons are right it was Pete Hegseeth who then started throwing all of this classified information into the chats Like it wasn't just Mike Waltz, they all And yet, by the way, the other thing to the other point to make to this is nobody cared that Pete Hegseth was sharing the classified information, right, Like, if this was shocking to everybody and something they'd never seen before, a lot of people would be like, hey, let's hold But no, It's like, it's hard to actually even blame Headseth because everyone was clearly accustomed to this and normalized to it. It wasn't It didn't seem to shock anybody or surprise anybody. They probably have been doing this many other times that we just haven't seen. So yeah, no heads are going to end up rolling. But I mean maybe maybe Walts is forced to resign. His credibility internally has been damaged beyond repair. He will never be fully trusted by any like most people inside the administration. Again, he looks stupid to a lot of people who will have a hard time taking your national security advisor seriously if he can't even keep a group chat locked down.

There was some DHS staffer who had accidentally included a reporter on some information about like ice raids, and you know, was immediately put on administrative leave, future in doubt at DHS, like immediate consequences for what is ultimately a much lower level fuck up than this fuck up. And you know, this is something so you know, my dad worked as a civilian scientist on a naval base for most of his career, and he has a lifelong conservative, but now he hates Donald Trump. But one of the things that really bothered him about Trump was the cavalier, the you know, the abuse of like classified material having him in his boxes.

There was some DHS staffer who had accidentally included a reporter on some information about like ice raids, and you know, was immediately put on administrative leave, future in doubt at DHS, like immediate consequences for what is ultimately a much lower level fuck up than this fuck up. And you know, this is something so you know, my dad worked as a civilian scientist on a naval base for most of his career, and he has a lifelong conservative, but now he hates Donald Trump. But one of the things that really bothered him about Trump was the cavalier, the you know, the abuse of like classified material having him in his boxes.

Because my dad.

Because my dad.

Had had to follow these incredibly strict process and procedure of how you handle this classified information and to see the complete disregard of that from people who are at the you know, top of the food chain there, he just that that thing really got to him. And you see that some of the reaction. New York Times had a story with some of the like airmen who would be you know, on these types of missions who have to follow like they can't even talk to each other about what they're going to do. So to see these plans being sent out across signal to this very broad list, even putting aside Jeffrey Goldberg on there, even that was like, what, like this is how you operate? This is insane, Like any of us would be complete, you know, discharged, Like it would be a major issue for us if this is the way that we operated. So, I mean, I think that's another another facet of the story. But in any case, we could go ahead and move on to some of the political news stories that are interesting right now, including Emily, you're making a truck up to Wisconsin to cover this state Supreme Court seat. So give us a little bit of rundown of what's going on in this race of why this has become such a lightning rod.

Had had to follow these incredibly strict process and procedure of how you handle this classified information and to see the complete disregard of that from people who are at the you know, top of the food chain there, he just that that thing really got to him. And you see that some of the reaction. New York Times had a story with some of the like airmen who would be you know, on these types of missions who have to follow like they can't even talk to each other about what they're going to do. So to see these plans being sent out across signal to this very broad list, even putting aside Jeffrey Goldberg on there, even that was like, what, like this is how you operate? This is insane, Like any of us would be complete, you know, discharged, Like it would be a major issue for us if this is the way that we operated. So, I mean, I think that's another another facet of the story. But in any case, we could go ahead and move on to some of the political news stories that are interesting right now, including Emily, you're making a truck up to Wisconsin to cover this state Supreme Court seat. So give us a little bit of rundown of what's going on in this race of why this has become such a lightning rod.

Yeah, here, let's pull up this article because interestingly, Elon Musk has been involved both on the sort of aggressive side, like on the offense and on the defense. Democrats have made this race. So the way the Wisconsin Supreme Supreme Court works is that they're not partisans. They're sort of conservative or liberal, but Democrats everybody knows, help the liberal right. Yeah, yeah, so you we can't call her like the Democrat judge or the Republican judge, but basically we can. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we basically can. So here, I'm opening up this article because just what we learned is Elon Musk is now getting even more involved than he already was in this election. Democrats have tried to actually make this a referendum. My New York Times is not loading here one second.

Yeah, here, let's pull up this article because interestingly, Elon Musk has been involved both on the sort of aggressive side, like on the offense and on the defense. Democrats have made this race. So the way the Wisconsin Supreme Supreme Court works is that they're not partisans. They're sort of conservative or liberal, but Democrats everybody knows, help the liberal right. Yeah, yeah, so you we can't call her like the Democrat judge or the Republican judge, but basically we can. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we basically can. So here, I'm opening up this article because just what we learned is Elon Musk is now getting even more involved than he already was in this election. Democrats have tried to actually make this a referendum. My New York Times is not loading here one second.

Everyone here, I got you can bet also actually got the Elon tweet that he put out that I can pull up here with. He's going to the state and is is gonna do another of his million dollar giveaways. He says on Sunday night, I'll give a talk in Wisconsin. Entrance is limited to those who vote in the Supreme Court election. I'll also personally hand over to checks for a million dollars each in appreciation for you taking the time to vote.

Everyone here, I got you can bet also actually got the Elon tweet that he put out that I can pull up here with. He's going to the state and is is gonna do another of his million dollar giveaways. He says on Sunday night, I'll give a talk in Wisconsin. Entrance is limited to those who vote in the Supreme Court election. I'll also personally hand over to checks for a million dollars each in appreciation for you taking the time to vote.

This is super important.

This is super important.

Again, as I said before, that anyone really cares that you know things are legal or not when done by the richest man on the planet.

Again, as I said before, that anyone really cares that you know things are legal or not when done by the richest man on the planet.

At this point, but.

At this point, but.

This is pretty brazenly election fraud like based on the code both in Wisconsin and federally. Wisconsin law prohibits offering anything of value to do someone to vote or register to vote.

This is pretty brazenly election fraud like based on the code both in Wisconsin and federally. Wisconsin law prohibits offering anything of value to do someone to vote or register to vote.

It's illegal to give.

It's illegal to give.

Lend, or promise anything of value to influence voting behavior. They cap incentives at one dollar and so you know, million dollars little bit beyond that limit. But you know, this is just again a very similar playbook to what he used, especially in the state of Pennsylvania in the presidential race. And you know, it's like goes without saying if George Soros was doing this on behalf of the Democrats, I think Republicans would probably have a little bit of an issue with it. But with Elon Musk, so you know, here we go.

Lend, or promise anything of value to influence voting behavior. They cap incentives at one dollar and so you know, million dollars little bit beyond that limit. But you know, this is just again a very similar playbook to what he used, especially in the state of Pennsylvania in the presidential race. And you know, it's like goes without saying if George Soros was doing this on behalf of the Democrats, I think Republicans would probably have a little bit of an issue with it. But with Elon Musk, so you know, here we go.

Well, yeah, and so this race is Brad Shimmel, who's a very well known kind of establishment conservative figure in Wisconsin, and it comes out of those you know years where Wisconsin has this very robust conservative movement internally because of the Scott Walker momentum, and you have Franz Prebus and Paul Ryan and Sean Duffy and Ron Johnson coming out of that like really the twenty tens, and Brad Schimmel's very much of that crowd. He is up against Susan Crawford, the liberal justice. This is for control of the Supreme Court in Wisconsin. Tesla does have business in front of the Supreme Court and Wisconsin like actively has business in front of the Supreme Court in Wisconsin. And so if you're wondering why twenty million dollars is pouring into this race, it's genuinely like an interesting question. You know, right now everyone wants to make it a referendum on Elon Musk. So you can understand, even from an ego perspective, why Elon Musk would say it's a bad look for no. I asked my parents and they were like, yep, these ads are Elon focused on the state Supreme court race. So that's why Elon Musk, even more than this one Tesla case, may be interested is that he could end up looking like a real albatross, like a electoral albatross for Republicans heading into the midterms, because the entire country is watching this election as like an early test case as to his brand and how it could potentially motivate Democratic Party voters. So twenty million dollars has flowed in here, and it's just like for a state Supreme court likely we're not even talking about a partisan Republican versus partisan Democrat national race. It's not even a congressional seat, it's the state Supreme Court. And so for this much attention and money to come into it is like pretty significant, and you can see why even beyond Tesla, Elon Musk is concerned and trying maybe even the lower expectations already.