Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal. How was your Christmas? Ah?

Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal. How was your Christmas? Ah?

It was lovely, great time with family, all that good stuff. We went up to New York for a little bit and traffic wasn't terribly bad, so I count that as a real blessing.

It was lovely, great time with family, all that good stuff. We went up to New York for a little bit and traffic wasn't terribly bad, so I count that as a real blessing.

How about you, em.

How about you, em.

It was good, It was good. It was a white Christmas in Wisconsin, so that was Oh.

It was good, It was good. It was a white Christmas in Wisconsin, so that was Oh.

Oh, are you a fan of the white Christmas situation? My youngest daughter is like obsessed with snow. She says she wants to live in the North Bowl in the North.

Oh, are you a fan of the white Christmas situation? My youngest daughter is like obsessed with snow. She says she wants to live in the North Bowl in the North.

I mean, you gotta have snow like it's it's really I find it very depressing when there's no snow on Christmas. But this is the world we live in now.

I mean, you gotta have snow like it's it's really I find it very depressing when there's no snow on Christmas. But this is the world we live in now.

Yes, indeed, indeed a lot to get to you in the show today. Also, because we've been off, there's like a backlog of stories for us to talk about. But we also have some breaking news, which is that Jimmy Carter has passed at the age of one hundred. So we'll take a little bit of a look at his I would say, sort of complicated legacy. A lot of people see it a lot of different ways. Trump jumped in and shows sides in this ongoing war between Elon Muskin and Bake Ramaswami versus MAGA types like Laura Lumer, et cetera. I'm very excited to hear what you have to say about this, Emily, So I'm looking forward to to sitting back and hearing your thoughts on this whole skirmish that has unfolded.

Yes, indeed, indeed a lot to get to you in the show today. Also, because we've been off, there's like a backlog of stories for us to talk about. But we also have some breaking news, which is that Jimmy Carter has passed at the age of one hundred. So we'll take a little bit of a look at his I would say, sort of complicated legacy. A lot of people see it a lot of different ways. Trump jumped in and shows sides in this ongoing war between Elon Muskin and Bake Ramaswami versus MAGA types like Laura Lumer, et cetera. I'm very excited to hear what you have to say about this, Emily, So I'm looking forward to to sitting back and hearing your thoughts on this whole skirmish that has unfolded.

We'll also get a little bit of Sager's thoughts because this is one of Sager's hobby horses, so we'll be all over that too.

We'll also get a little bit of Sager's thoughts because this is one of Sager's hobby horses, so we'll be all over that too.

Well.

Well.

In Indians We're catching a lot of stories in this. Oh boy strays is probably the nicest way you could put it. They were, you know, taking a lot of direct in this. So yeah, we'll include some of his thoughts in that block as well, Theoman weighing in on the potential coming TikTok ban as well as Trump weigh in on the potential TikTok ban. That part is probably a little more noworthy than theovon, but we'll give both of their thoughts on that. In terrible news, the last hospital in Gaza has now been destroyed. The head of that hospital has been detained. Reports are that he is being tortured, his family issuing a plea for him to be returned safely. So just continuing horror in the Gaza strip being committed by the IDF.

In Indians We're catching a lot of stories in this. Oh boy strays is probably the nicest way you could put it. They were, you know, taking a lot of direct in this. So yeah, we'll include some of his thoughts in that block as well, Theoman weighing in on the potential coming TikTok ban as well as Trump weigh in on the potential TikTok ban. That part is probably a little more noworthy than theovon, but we'll give both of their thoughts on that. In terrible news, the last hospital in Gaza has now been destroyed. The head of that hospital has been detained. Reports are that he is being tortured, his family issuing a plea for him to be returned safely. So just continuing horror in the Gaza strip being committed by the IDF.

We've got a new.

We've got a new.

Poll revealing how the country really feels about the murder of that healthcare CEO. And Joe Biden apparently thinks he would have beat Trump emily levels of delusion that I previously thought were not even possible.

Poll revealing how the country really feels about the murder of that healthcare CEO. And Joe Biden apparently thinks he would have beat Trump emily levels of delusion that I previously thought were not even possible.

Are are disagreeing to the four? Yeah? Just amazing.

Are are disagreeing to the four? Yeah? Just amazing.

You think, you shockingly think that Donald Trump's at least sentience would have defeated. We beat Medicare Joe Biden.

You think, you shockingly think that Donald Trump's at least sentience would have defeated. We beat Medicare Joe Biden.

It seems like he had a little bit of an edge going into that one, I will say, so any way, he's Biden is finally giving a couple interviews talking about some of his regrets. None of them are the thing I mean. Some of them are like, okay, little political things that he should have done differently, but none of them are like, hey, maybe I shouldn't have run for reelection as this old man who can barely put two sentences together. That party apparently feels no regrets over. So in any case, let's go ahead and jump into this significant news, which is that Jimmy Carter, former president of course, has passed away at the age of one hundred. It's been almost two years since Emily we received the news that he was entering hospice care and foregoing further sort of attempts to you know, extend his life, and he held on much longer than anyone expected. His passing leaves Joe Biden as the now oldest living president and Donald Trump as the oldest you know living second oldest living America and president. So kind of an incredible life, you know, born in rural Georgia obviously in the early nineteen hundreds, but it was in such a remote part of the country that it was almost like, you know, the lifestyle was still very much eighteen hundreds. So the amount of change and progress and turmoil and all of that that he's seen in his lifetime is hard to truly wrap her head around. And you know, in some ways, it's sort of fitting that he passed at this moment because his presidency really was a transition between the New Deal era and the neoliberal era. A lot of people think of Ronald Reagan as the first truly neoliberal president, which I think is fair, But Jimmy Carter did a lot of neoliberal policies himself. He deregulated the airlines, he regulated the trucking industry, deregulated some of the energy industry. He's the person who installs Paul Volker at the FED. There was a lot of neoliberalism that he was starting to you're in and now here we are kind of at the end of that era. Now is think, especially with Trump retaking the White House, what exactly that's going to look like. We'll talk about more when we get into this fight between Elon maga, et cetera. But certainly here and around the world, that particular era is coming to a close, and so in some ways it's fitting that this is when Jimmy Carter makes his exit.

It seems like he had a little bit of an edge going into that one, I will say, so any way, he's Biden is finally giving a couple interviews talking about some of his regrets. None of them are the thing I mean. Some of them are like, okay, little political things that he should have done differently, but none of them are like, hey, maybe I shouldn't have run for reelection as this old man who can barely put two sentences together. That party apparently feels no regrets over. So in any case, let's go ahead and jump into this significant news, which is that Jimmy Carter, former president of course, has passed away at the age of one hundred. It's been almost two years since Emily we received the news that he was entering hospice care and foregoing further sort of attempts to you know, extend his life, and he held on much longer than anyone expected. His passing leaves Joe Biden as the now oldest living president and Donald Trump as the oldest you know living second oldest living America and president. So kind of an incredible life, you know, born in rural Georgia obviously in the early nineteen hundreds, but it was in such a remote part of the country that it was almost like, you know, the lifestyle was still very much eighteen hundreds. So the amount of change and progress and turmoil and all of that that he's seen in his lifetime is hard to truly wrap her head around. And you know, in some ways, it's sort of fitting that he passed at this moment because his presidency really was a transition between the New Deal era and the neoliberal era. A lot of people think of Ronald Reagan as the first truly neoliberal president, which I think is fair, But Jimmy Carter did a lot of neoliberal policies himself. He deregulated the airlines, he regulated the trucking industry, deregulated some of the energy industry. He's the person who installs Paul Volker at the FED. There was a lot of neoliberalism that he was starting to you're in and now here we are kind of at the end of that era. Now is think, especially with Trump retaking the White House, what exactly that's going to look like. We'll talk about more when we get into this fight between Elon maga, et cetera. But certainly here and around the world, that particular era is coming to a close, and so in some ways it's fitting that this is when Jimmy Carter makes his exit.

Well, yes, that's an interesting point because right now preparations are underway obviously for the funeral, and so typically that brings together all of the living presidents and first ladies, and we've seen that handled a little bit differently during the Trump era. It always does provide some insights into, for example, just how well the Bush family gets along with the Obama family, and you sort of get to see some displays that I think are often unfortunate and displays that are in some ways, you know, give people like Whoopi Goldberg hope that the country is just going to keep on, keep it on, because.

Well, yes, that's an interesting point because right now preparations are underway obviously for the funeral, and so typically that brings together all of the living presidents and first ladies, and we've seen that handled a little bit differently during the Trump era. It always does provide some insights into, for example, just how well the Bush family gets along with the Obama family, and you sort of get to see some displays that I think are often unfortunate and displays that are in some ways, you know, give people like Whoopi Goldberg hope that the country is just going to keep on, keep it on, because.

You get to see also how much Jill Biden apparently likes Donald Trump.

You get to see also how much Jill Biden apparently likes Donald Trump.

Yes, yes, oh, maybe he'll wear his cologne again, so I have to see. But all that is to say, Jimmy Carter, to your point, was born in the nineteen twenties. He was born before nuclear weapons were invented, and became a president in the middle of the Cold War, and to this day our foreign policy, for example, think about Israel and Iran is informed by our conduct during the Cold War and the way that the world was dramatically shrunk because of nuclear weapons, which happened literally in his youth. So it's just an incredible is an incredible life.

Yes, yes, oh, maybe he'll wear his cologne again, so I have to see. But all that is to say, Jimmy Carter, to your point, was born in the nineteen twenties. He was born before nuclear weapons were invented, and became a president in the middle of the Cold War, and to this day our foreign policy, for example, think about Israel and Iran is informed by our conduct during the Cold War and the way that the world was dramatically shrunk because of nuclear weapons, which happened literally in his youth. So it's just an incredible is an incredible life.

And Joe Biden was apparently the first Senator to endorse Jimmy Carter in that Democratic primary all those many years ago, so something some of our political figures still definitely hanging in there from that era. One of the things that are typically cited as a signature achievement of his administration, certainly in terms of foreign policy, is the Camp David Accords, which brought peace between Egypt and Israel. You, as a supporter of the Palestinian cause, I see that somewhat differently. It really was a blow to Palestinians. They were excluded from the negotiations. It broke up this sort of Pan Arab unity. Egypt was in many ways their most powerful ally, and there were demands there. There are conditions for Israel to respect Palestinians sovereignty in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip, but they were never enforced and were sort of always loose enough to allow Israel to continue the project of settlement expansion, which has continued under every single Israeli Prime minister, regardless of party or political you know, political inclination. And so, you know, on the one hand, it did bring peace between these two neighbors, resolved issues with the Sinai Peninsula. But on the other hand, it really was a blow ultimately to the strength and the solidarity, the Pan Arab solidarity of the Palestinian movement. You know, a lot of people also make a distinguished distinguished between Jimmy Carter in office, and most people see his presidency as you know, sort of a failure. There's a lot of economic turmoil, there's a lot of political turmoil. Obviously, the you know, Iran hostage situation, which in many ways was engineered by the then incoming Ronald Reagan administration. We can leave that aside for another day, clearly was a blow to American self esteem. I mean, it's true, it was pretty well documented that they had this back channel negotiation of hey, you hold on to these hostages until I get into the White House, and then you release them, which exactly what happens.

And Joe Biden was apparently the first Senator to endorse Jimmy Carter in that Democratic primary all those many years ago, so something some of our political figures still definitely hanging in there from that era. One of the things that are typically cited as a signature achievement of his administration, certainly in terms of foreign policy, is the Camp David Accords, which brought peace between Egypt and Israel. You, as a supporter of the Palestinian cause, I see that somewhat differently. It really was a blow to Palestinians. They were excluded from the negotiations. It broke up this sort of Pan Arab unity. Egypt was in many ways their most powerful ally, and there were demands there. There are conditions for Israel to respect Palestinians sovereignty in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip, but they were never enforced and were sort of always loose enough to allow Israel to continue the project of settlement expansion, which has continued under every single Israeli Prime minister, regardless of party or political you know, political inclination. And so, you know, on the one hand, it did bring peace between these two neighbors, resolved issues with the Sinai Peninsula. But on the other hand, it really was a blow ultimately to the strength and the solidarity, the Pan Arab solidarity of the Palestinian movement. You know, a lot of people also make a distinguished distinguished between Jimmy Carter in office, and most people see his presidency as you know, sort of a failure. There's a lot of economic turmoil, there's a lot of political turmoil. Obviously, the you know, Iran hostage situation, which in many ways was engineered by the then incoming Ronald Reagan administration. We can leave that aside for another day, clearly was a blow to American self esteem. I mean, it's true, it was pretty well documented that they had this back channel negotiation of hey, you hold on to these hostages until I get into the White House, and then you release them, which exactly what happens.

I mean, you want to.

I mean, you want to.

Talk about foreign election interference that kind of takes the cake. Most people feel though, his post presidency has been quite remarkable and quite dramatically different from the way that whether it's certainly Clinton Obama, whether the way that most presidents have in the modern era just used the post presidency as a chance to effectively cash in. And yeah, I think Obama is in some ways the worst example of this, because with the Clintons, at least there was some semblance of even though we're not big fans of the Clinton Foundation, here there was some semblance of like, oh, we're doing this for the international good, etc. With the Obama it's been clearly like just their own personal sort of like brand building and you know, their own legacy protection, versus truly being an associated with any larger cause than themselves. Jimmy Carter, of course, famously very involved in global health initiatives, was working building himself homes for habitat for humanity into his nineties, which is quite extraordinary. And the other thing is he and his wife lived in the same modest Georgia house until, you know, until the very end, until they both ultimately passed. And part of this is a point that Michael Tracy and others have been making the fact that he didn't sell out to the corporate world left him free to speak out quite you know, plainly and boldly on any number of issues, one of those issues being Israel and Palestine. A lot of people are sharing this interview that he did a while back with Amy Goodman. Let me go ahead and pull up a little bit of this where he not only calls out Israel for you know, creating an apartheid state, but he also calls out apak and the influence of money in politics and explains why Americans, you know, are unable to see this conflict as clearly as he is. And let me go ahead and play a little bit of what he had to say.

Talk about foreign election interference that kind of takes the cake. Most people feel though, his post presidency has been quite remarkable and quite dramatically different from the way that whether it's certainly Clinton Obama, whether the way that most presidents have in the modern era just used the post presidency as a chance to effectively cash in. And yeah, I think Obama is in some ways the worst example of this, because with the Clintons, at least there was some semblance of even though we're not big fans of the Clinton Foundation, here there was some semblance of like, oh, we're doing this for the international good, etc. With the Obama it's been clearly like just their own personal sort of like brand building and you know, their own legacy protection, versus truly being an associated with any larger cause than themselves. Jimmy Carter, of course, famously very involved in global health initiatives, was working building himself homes for habitat for humanity into his nineties, which is quite extraordinary. And the other thing is he and his wife lived in the same modest Georgia house until, you know, until the very end, until they both ultimately passed. And part of this is a point that Michael Tracy and others have been making the fact that he didn't sell out to the corporate world left him free to speak out quite you know, plainly and boldly on any number of issues, one of those issues being Israel and Palestine. A lot of people are sharing this interview that he did a while back with Amy Goodman. Let me go ahead and pull up a little bit of this where he not only calls out Israel for you know, creating an apartheid state, but he also calls out apak and the influence of money in politics and explains why Americans, you know, are unable to see this conflict as clearly as he is. And let me go ahead and play a little bit of what he had to say.

They were apartheid is is exactly accurate. You know, this is an area that's occupied by two powers. They're not completely separated. The Palestinians can even ride on the same roads that the Israels have created or built in Palestinian territory. The israel Is never see a Palestinian except there Israeli soldiers. The Palestinian has never seen is Ready except in the distance, except he is Ready soldiers. So within Palestinian territory they're absolutely and totally separated, much worse than they were in South Africa, by the way. And the other thing is the other definition of a part, that is, one side dominates the other, and he is ready to completely dominate the life of the Palestinian people.

They were apartheid is is exactly accurate. You know, this is an area that's occupied by two powers. They're not completely separated. The Palestinians can even ride on the same roads that the Israels have created or built in Palestinian territory. The israel Is never see a Palestinian except there Israeli soldiers. The Palestinian has never seen is Ready except in the distance, except he is Ready soldiers. So within Palestinian territory they're absolutely and totally separated, much worse than they were in South Africa, by the way. And the other thing is the other definition of a part, that is, one side dominates the other, and he is ready to completely dominate the life of the Palestinian people.

Why don't Americans know what you have seen?

Why don't Americans know what you have seen?

Americans don't want to know, and the Israelis don't want to know what is going on inside Palestine. It's a terrible human rights persecution that is far transcends what any outsider would imagine. And they're powerful political forces in America that prevents any objective analysis of the problem in the Holy Land. I think it's accurate to say that not a single member of Congress with which I'm with whom I'm familiar would possibly speak out and call for Israel to withdraw to their legal boundaries, or to publicize the plight of the Palestinians, or even to call publicly and repeatedly for good faith peace talks. There had been a day of peace talks now in more than seven years, So this is a taboo subject. And I would say that if any member of Congress did speak out as I've just described, they would probably not be back into Congress the next term.

Americans don't want to know, and the Israelis don't want to know what is going on inside Palestine. It's a terrible human rights persecution that is far transcends what any outsider would imagine. And they're powerful political forces in America that prevents any objective analysis of the problem in the Holy Land. I think it's accurate to say that not a single member of Congress with which I'm with whom I'm familiar would possibly speak out and call for Israel to withdraw to their legal boundaries, or to publicize the plight of the Palestinians, or even to call publicly and repeatedly for good faith peace talks. There had been a day of peace talks now in more than seven years, So this is a taboo subject. And I would say that if any member of Congress did speak out as I've just described, they would probably not be back into Congress the next term.

So there you go.

So there you go.

And I do think part of why he was able and felt free to speak out such as this, to go visit any world leader that effectively asked him to, even you know, people like Castro, who obviously most you know, living American presidents would not be going and visiting, was because he was not bought off by anyone. He truly was his own man until the end. And I think you know that aspect of his legacy to me is very is extremely admirable.

And I do think part of why he was able and felt free to speak out such as this, to go visit any world leader that effectively asked him to, even you know, people like Castro, who obviously most you know, living American presidents would not be going and visiting, was because he was not bought off by anyone. He truly was his own man until the end. And I think you know that aspect of his legacy to me is very is extremely admirable.

Well, I think that's a really good point. There's this sense of, you know, I hate when politicians say I've served in Congress or I've served the constituents of my district for a decade. It's not service to people anymore. That ethic is completely scrubbed from Washington. But Jimmy Carter is sort of old enough that you know, in a lot of ways he represented how elites used to see politics. I'm not saying it's like better or worse, but there's like this no bless oblige about the privilege of power, and that it would it would sort of be shameful and embarrassing to be so brazen as the Obamas are or Another great example is actually, as the Bidens were in Biden's host vice presidency, the brazenness with which they exploited their power would have been really shameful in other eras of American history. And Jimmy Carter somebody for him that is like very obvious, and we look at him as different now because he has handled it differently in the last year compared to how our presidents have in the last couple of decades. But the only thing I wanted to mention on that crystal is he's also old enough as a Democrat that he was friends with Billy Graham and the sort of evangelical wave in the moral majority people in the seventies and the eighties. And to have him talking about the Middle East in the way that he's talked about the Middle East since is incredibly noteworthy. Really rankles conservatives. Obviously, nobody needs me to say that, but it's clear that he really was informed by his faith throughout his tenure, also true and afterwards, and in a way that again is seen as crazy now it's seen as exceptional and different before a Southern Democrat in the nineteen seventies, you know, it really wasn't well.

Well, I think that's a really good point. There's this sense of, you know, I hate when politicians say I've served in Congress or I've served the constituents of my district for a decade. It's not service to people anymore. That ethic is completely scrubbed from Washington. But Jimmy Carter is sort of old enough that you know, in a lot of ways he represented how elites used to see politics. I'm not saying it's like better or worse, but there's like this no bless oblige about the privilege of power, and that it would it would sort of be shameful and embarrassing to be so brazen as the Obamas are or Another great example is actually, as the Bidens were in Biden's host vice presidency, the brazenness with which they exploited their power would have been really shameful in other eras of American history. And Jimmy Carter somebody for him that is like very obvious, and we look at him as different now because he has handled it differently in the last year compared to how our presidents have in the last couple of decades. But the only thing I wanted to mention on that crystal is he's also old enough as a Democrat that he was friends with Billy Graham and the sort of evangelical wave in the moral majority people in the seventies and the eighties. And to have him talking about the Middle East in the way that he's talked about the Middle East since is incredibly noteworthy. Really rankles conservatives. Obviously, nobody needs me to say that, but it's clear that he really was informed by his faith throughout his tenure, also true and afterwards, and in a way that again is seen as crazy now it's seen as exceptional and different before a Southern Democrat in the nineteen seventies, you know, it really wasn't well.

And the contrast with Trump is also quite remarkable because Trump didn't wait till his post presidency to cash in. You know, famously, if you wanted to get in with him, you would stay at his hotel and make sure you ran up a big bill. Now he has his own crypto coin. He's selling sneakers selling it gus. You reference before selling a cologne. Jimmy Carter sold his peanut farm before he entered the White House, just to make it clear that he had no potential conflict of interest. That's how dramatically different, you know, his view of the responsibilities of the presidency were versus Trump and the Trump family. I mean Trump cashing in with live golf, Jared Kushner getting two billion dollars from the Saudist. The list goes on and on. And you had David Seroa pointing out that another area where Carter was very clearly outspoken in a way that you just don't see from any of the other living American presidents is on money in politics. And he says he was the one ex president of the modern air to openly admit and lament the truth about what America has become in the post Citizens United era National Press Corp. Probably won't mention this, but it was really something. Jimmy Carter said, US is an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery, and you know, and really sounded off against the Citizens United ruling, which was one of a number of Supreme Court rulings that really opened the floodgates of huge money and politics, the likes of which were not possible in the past and which have reached, you know, unbelievable new dystopian heights, with Elon Musk in particular, putting in a court more than a quarter of a billion dollars into this last presidential campaign and basically expecting to run the government and achieve whatever policies that he wants to achieve, not the guy that just got elected, but that he wants to achieve. And so, you know, it's that's been a long time coming, and obviously both parties have decided to fully embrace big money in politics. But it's also noteworthy that, you know, as Jimmy Carter officially exits the scene, you know, we've reached a new, i think undeniable peak of American oligarchy that is quite disturbing, and you know, has clearly now not just disturbing lefties like me, but plenty of people within the MAGA coalition who are saying, you know what, this is actually really a problem.

And the contrast with Trump is also quite remarkable because Trump didn't wait till his post presidency to cash in. You know, famously, if you wanted to get in with him, you would stay at his hotel and make sure you ran up a big bill. Now he has his own crypto coin. He's selling sneakers selling it gus. You reference before selling a cologne. Jimmy Carter sold his peanut farm before he entered the White House, just to make it clear that he had no potential conflict of interest. That's how dramatically different, you know, his view of the responsibilities of the presidency were versus Trump and the Trump family. I mean Trump cashing in with live golf, Jared Kushner getting two billion dollars from the Saudist. The list goes on and on. And you had David Seroa pointing out that another area where Carter was very clearly outspoken in a way that you just don't see from any of the other living American presidents is on money in politics. And he says he was the one ex president of the modern air to openly admit and lament the truth about what America has become in the post Citizens United era National Press Corp. Probably won't mention this, but it was really something. Jimmy Carter said, US is an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery, and you know, and really sounded off against the Citizens United ruling, which was one of a number of Supreme Court rulings that really opened the floodgates of huge money and politics, the likes of which were not possible in the past and which have reached, you know, unbelievable new dystopian heights, with Elon Musk in particular, putting in a court more than a quarter of a billion dollars into this last presidential campaign and basically expecting to run the government and achieve whatever policies that he wants to achieve, not the guy that just got elected, but that he wants to achieve. And so, you know, it's that's been a long time coming, and obviously both parties have decided to fully embrace big money in politics. But it's also noteworthy that, you know, as Jimmy Carter officially exits the scene, you know, we've reached a new, i think undeniable peak of American oligarchy that is quite disturbing, and you know, has clearly now not just disturbing lefties like me, but plenty of people within the MAGA coalition who are saying, you know what, this is actually really a problem.

Totally, and it's for Jimmy Carter so and again, who was born in the nineteen twenties. We sort of had this voice from the past, and he was a relic of a different era, and I think that's kind of what's disturbing reflecting on his life is that, you know, there were many, many, deep, deep imperfections in the United States of America throughout his life, some of which have gotten dramatic better. But the political system. You know that he's kind of a voice of moral clarity I think from the past, and a lot of conservatives would tell me that's crazy. But from this sort of like populist perspective about the American political system, he was able to see it a little bit more clearly from his vantage point. And it's it's a sorry contrast with where things are today. As you mentioned, like the Trump organization, Eric Trump right now just broker to deal in Saudi Arabia for like a giant tower, I mean, like a completely different level at this point. Yeah, So the Obamas are out making Netflix documentaries and cashing it that don't make any money, but are you know, worth millions to Netflix because well it's the Obamas.

Totally, and it's for Jimmy Carter so and again, who was born in the nineteen twenties. We sort of had this voice from the past, and he was a relic of a different era, and I think that's kind of what's disturbing reflecting on his life is that, you know, there were many, many, deep, deep imperfections in the United States of America throughout his life, some of which have gotten dramatic better. But the political system. You know that he's kind of a voice of moral clarity I think from the past, and a lot of conservatives would tell me that's crazy. But from this sort of like populist perspective about the American political system, he was able to see it a little bit more clearly from his vantage point. And it's it's a sorry contrast with where things are today. As you mentioned, like the Trump organization, Eric Trump right now just broker to deal in Saudi Arabia for like a giant tower, I mean, like a completely different level at this point. Yeah, So the Obamas are out making Netflix documentaries and cashing it that don't make any money, but are you know, worth millions to Netflix because well it's the Obamas.

Yeah. Carter was also apparently the last Democrat to win a majority of counties in the presidential election. Usually Democrats in the modern era, they sort of run up the score in the cities. But you're we're all used to seeing the map where many of the rural areas are Republican. Now all of the rural areas are Republican, and so you know, it's a very different Democratic coalition at that point. I would say that some of the neoliberal policies that he helps to usher in, the trucking deregulation, the airline deregulation, ultimately the attacks on unions, all of that shift away from the New Deal era is a big part of the story of why Democrats lose so much of the country, lose so many of these you know, rural areas and rural states. And he really, you know, starts the trend in that direction, and the door on that era has been you know, officially, I guess slam shut here with with Trump retaking the White House. So in any place in any case, rest in peace, Jimmy Carter, and we can go ahead and move on to what's going on with Elon Musk and Donald Trump and Laura Lumer and all these characters.

Yeah. Carter was also apparently the last Democrat to win a majority of counties in the presidential election. Usually Democrats in the modern era, they sort of run up the score in the cities. But you're we're all used to seeing the map where many of the rural areas are Republican. Now all of the rural areas are Republican, and so you know, it's a very different Democratic coalition at that point. I would say that some of the neoliberal policies that he helps to usher in, the trucking deregulation, the airline deregulation, ultimately the attacks on unions, all of that shift away from the New Deal era is a big part of the story of why Democrats lose so much of the country, lose so many of these you know, rural areas and rural states. And he really, you know, starts the trend in that direction, and the door on that era has been you know, officially, I guess slam shut here with with Trump retaking the White House. So in any place in any case, rest in peace, Jimmy Carter, and we can go ahead and move on to what's going on with Elon Musk and Donald Trump and Laura Lumer and all these characters.

Well, Crystal, it's a great day for Sager to be gone, because not only do we have a significant moment in presidential history, but we also have this roiling skirmish and MAGA world over h one B Visus, and we know that Sager has so little to say about both of these topics.

Well, Crystal, it's a great day for Sager to be gone, because not only do we have a significant moment in presidential history, but we also have this roiling skirmish and MAGA world over h one B Visus, and we know that Sager has so little to say about both of these topics.

As Indian Americans and they're placed in the country. Very few thoughts on any of these topics.

As Indian Americans and they're placed in the country. Very few thoughts on any of these topics.

Yes, and about American culture and Silicon Valley, so nothing to worry about. We will do our best to channel Sager's energy, if not his ideology. We do have a little bit of Sager's thoughts to share with everyone because he made some excellent points which will surprise nobody. But right now, Magaworld is, as we just alluded to, absolutely riven. And this is not a media narrative. This is a significant division just to be meta for a moment. We're not in any way you making this sound worse than it is. This is a very significant division in sort of Trump World and we've seen that just on Elon Musk's X feed itself over the last couple of days. So we're going to start with kind of the basics here. I'm going to share a little tear sheet so that you can see what some of the coverage has looked like over the last couple of days. Actually, really this has been going on for a while, but this all started when Donald Trump announced the appointment of somebody who is supportive of H one B visas to his new administration shortly before Christmas. And if you've been following this, if you're on Twitter, what you saw was immediately a major divide open up between people who support H one B visas and people who don't. And this sounds like maybe a minor wonky set of differences among Donald Trump's circle, but what it was actually doing was pitting Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswami and people like David Sachs, another person who has been actually formally appointed to a post in the incoming Trump administration, against the quote unquote like America First World, the Stephen Miller camp of people who thought, listen, this was going to be the administration that is serious about actually cracking down on the sort of foreign labor competing with domestic labor. And so Donald Trump a couple of days into this, you can see the dateline on this is December twenty eighth, comes out and says I have many h one B visas on my properties, which, Crystal, is probably the funniest way for Donald Trump to wait into this debate, to be honest, But people were with baited breath. You had Elon Musk tweeting ceaselessly for a couple of days. Again, going into Christmas, Laura Lumer jumped in on this and we're going to basically break this all down. We have Rocanna, Congressman Rocanna, who's been roped into this as well because this is an issue that he's worked on and was invoked by Laura Lumer at one point, going to join the show and break some of this down for us as well. But this opened up a massive fight in Maga world essentially, and Elon Musk and Donald Trump are on the same side of it now. So Crystal, this is a big chunk that's been happening.

Yes, and about American culture and Silicon Valley, so nothing to worry about. We will do our best to channel Sager's energy, if not his ideology. We do have a little bit of Sager's thoughts to share with everyone because he made some excellent points which will surprise nobody. But right now, Magaworld is, as we just alluded to, absolutely riven. And this is not a media narrative. This is a significant division just to be meta for a moment. We're not in any way you making this sound worse than it is. This is a very significant division in sort of Trump World and we've seen that just on Elon Musk's X feed itself over the last couple of days. So we're going to start with kind of the basics here. I'm going to share a little tear sheet so that you can see what some of the coverage has looked like over the last couple of days. Actually, really this has been going on for a while, but this all started when Donald Trump announced the appointment of somebody who is supportive of H one B visas to his new administration shortly before Christmas. And if you've been following this, if you're on Twitter, what you saw was immediately a major divide open up between people who support H one B visas and people who don't. And this sounds like maybe a minor wonky set of differences among Donald Trump's circle, but what it was actually doing was pitting Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswami and people like David Sachs, another person who has been actually formally appointed to a post in the incoming Trump administration, against the quote unquote like America First World, the Stephen Miller camp of people who thought, listen, this was going to be the administration that is serious about actually cracking down on the sort of foreign labor competing with domestic labor. And so Donald Trump a couple of days into this, you can see the dateline on this is December twenty eighth, comes out and says I have many h one B visas on my properties, which, Crystal, is probably the funniest way for Donald Trump to wait into this debate, to be honest, But people were with baited breath. You had Elon Musk tweeting ceaselessly for a couple of days. Again, going into Christmas, Laura Lumer jumped in on this and we're going to basically break this all down. We have Rocanna, Congressman Rocanna, who's been roped into this as well because this is an issue that he's worked on and was invoked by Laura Lumer at one point, going to join the show and break some of this down for us as well. But this opened up a massive fight in Maga world essentially, and Elon Musk and Donald Trump are on the same side of it now. So Crystal, this is a big chunk that's been happening.

You know.

You know.

Again, this pre dates Christmas by a couple of days, but it is still raging. This is. It seems like it's about to carry into the new year and into the new administration, which is now some serious baggage to deal with. Tell me, as somebody on the left who's watching this play out over the last couple of weeks, what your reaction has been to it.

Again, this pre dates Christmas by a couple of days, but it is still raging. This is. It seems like it's about to carry into the new year and into the new administration, which is now some serious baggage to deal with. Tell me, as somebody on the left who's watching this play out over the last couple of weeks, what your reaction has been to it.

Well, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that it sparked such a war, because it really does get at like a foundational question of how you see the world, and the campaign kind of glossed over some of these differences. But I think you and I and Sager and Ryan have been talking about some of the very clear ideological differences, especially between Elon Musk, David Sachs, veg Ramaswami, the sort of new tech bro coalition, and the Trumpest view of the world as it's been presented to the electorate. Now careful about how I say that, because obviously Donald Trump is decided with the globalist here. So what is trump Ism is always a little bit up for debate, But effectively, you know, the Trump narrative of the world is that you are struggling and you are getting screwed because of immigrants and quote unquote cultural leads, basically trans people, gender ideology like things coming out of Hollywood that you don't like and you don't think are the right values or direction for your family. But immigrants are a big, big part of that story of why Trump is telling you that you're struggling and you're screwed. That is a break from the traditional Republican message of if you're struggling, it's because you or in this instance, your culture is failed, failing, flawed in some way, So pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get it together, and effectively what you have in this proxy war over the H one B visas is a clash between these two worldviews. You know, Trump is, like I said, his ideology can be sort of hard to pin down at times because the truth of the matter is when he governed last time, he basically governed as like a Paul Ryan Republican with some exceptions, you know, tariff policy certainly being an exception there. But his biggest accomplishment is this giant tax cut for the rich, very traditional standard Heritage Foundation type of Republican.

Well, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that it sparked such a war, because it really does get at like a foundational question of how you see the world, and the campaign kind of glossed over some of these differences. But I think you and I and Sager and Ryan have been talking about some of the very clear ideological differences, especially between Elon Musk, David Sachs, veg Ramaswami, the sort of new tech bro coalition, and the Trumpest view of the world as it's been presented to the electorate. Now careful about how I say that, because obviously Donald Trump is decided with the globalist here. So what is trump Ism is always a little bit up for debate, But effectively, you know, the Trump narrative of the world is that you are struggling and you are getting screwed because of immigrants and quote unquote cultural leads, basically trans people, gender ideology like things coming out of Hollywood that you don't like and you don't think are the right values or direction for your family. But immigrants are a big, big part of that story of why Trump is telling you that you're struggling and you're screwed. That is a break from the traditional Republican message of if you're struggling, it's because you or in this instance, your culture is failed, failing, flawed in some way, So pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get it together, and effectively what you have in this proxy war over the H one B visas is a clash between these two worldviews. You know, Trump is, like I said, his ideology can be sort of hard to pin down at times because the truth of the matter is when he governed last time, he basically governed as like a Paul Ryan Republican with some exceptions, you know, tariff policy certainly being an exception there. But his biggest accomplishment is this giant tax cut for the rich, very traditional standard Heritage Foundation type of Republican.

Policy, literal Paul Ryan tax plan.

Policy, literal Paul Ryan tax plan.

Yeah, I mean it was actually literally crafted by Paul Ryan. However, you know, in having this different narrative and story that he's selling that was a break from the way that Republicans had traditionally talked about economic issues. Elon is much more actually ideological. He's a fan of Javier Malay. He has been talking about how he wants to slash two trillion dollars from the budget. He believes that there needs to be this level of quote unquote pain among the public. Obviously, cutting two trillion dollars from the budget is going to necessitate significant cuts to Social Security and Medicare programs that Trump has always pledged that he wouldn't touch. He also went out and you know, was praising Javier Malay for rolling back tariffs. Trump always obviously is in love with tariffs, and his embraced tariffs more than ever before, at least in terms of his rhetoric. So, you know, ideologically, there's always been this huge divide between Musk and his pretty clear like kind of anarcho capitalist ideology and the way that trump Ism has been sold to the magabase. So that's where this really comes to a head, because what Musk and Vivek Ramaswami and all of them are saying is effectively.

Yeah, I mean it was actually literally crafted by Paul Ryan. However, you know, in having this different narrative and story that he's selling that was a break from the way that Republicans had traditionally talked about economic issues. Elon is much more actually ideological. He's a fan of Javier Malay. He has been talking about how he wants to slash two trillion dollars from the budget. He believes that there needs to be this level of quote unquote pain among the public. Obviously, cutting two trillion dollars from the budget is going to necessitate significant cuts to Social Security and Medicare programs that Trump has always pledged that he wouldn't touch. He also went out and you know, was praising Javier Malay for rolling back tariffs. Trump always obviously is in love with tariffs, and his embraced tariffs more than ever before, at least in terms of his rhetoric. So, you know, ideologically, there's always been this huge divide between Musk and his pretty clear like kind of anarcho capitalist ideology and the way that trump Ism has been sold to the magabase. So that's where this really comes to a head, because what Musk and Vivek Ramaswami and all of them are saying is effectively.

Like, yeah, we've got a problem.

Like, yeah, we've got a problem.

With illegal immigrants. But actually we love legal immigrants. We want more immigrants in the country, and specifically for Elon Musk, he wants more workers that he can pay lower wages and that who are completely beholden to him, because that's you know, as a lefty, who does you know want more immigration in this country. I think we should have more legal immigrants. I believe that it's good for everyone. Is certainly good for those immigrants themselves. I have issues with the H one B program because it is so exploitative of those workers, and it is damaging to the American tech workers as well, because if you look at the numbers people who are brought in these quote unquote high skilled workers who are brought in on H one B visas, number one, they're paid less and number two, if you don't play ball with your employer and they fire you, you get deported. So I agree with the cultures and the Steve Bannons of the world when they say this is effectively a program of indentured servitude. But you know, as the world's richest man and a huge capitalist who also, by the way, gets massive government subsidies.

With illegal immigrants. But actually we love legal immigrants. We want more immigrants in the country, and specifically for Elon Musk, he wants more workers that he can pay lower wages and that who are completely beholden to him, because that's you know, as a lefty, who does you know want more immigration in this country. I think we should have more legal immigrants. I believe that it's good for everyone. Is certainly good for those immigrants themselves. I have issues with the H one B program because it is so exploitative of those workers, and it is damaging to the American tech workers as well, because if you look at the numbers people who are brought in these quote unquote high skilled workers who are brought in on H one B visas, number one, they're paid less and number two, if you don't play ball with your employer and they fire you, you get deported. So I agree with the cultures and the Steve Bannons of the world when they say this is effectively a program of indentured servitude. But you know, as the world's richest man and a huge capitalist who also, by the way, gets massive government subsidies.

Yeah, all of those goodies.

Yeah, all of those goodies.

Well, H one B kind of is a government subsidi.

Well, H one B kind of is a government subsidi.

That's one hundred percent true. That is one hundred percent true.

That's one hundred percent true. That is one hundred percent true.

He is looking out for him his own capitalist interest and this is a huge issue among the tech not just the tech right, just among the tech sector tech capitalist period. Which is why when Trump went on the All In podcast, which is like the Tech Broke podcast back several months ago during the campaign, Yosager took a mediate note of the fact that Trump offered up in that interview. Hey, I think if you graduate from any college in this country, you should have a green cart a stapled to your degree. That was clearly something he was, you know, knew he needed to give to that community in order to take in the hundreds of millions of dollars and the political support that he ultimately got from them. So you know, he chose his side quite a while ago. So it doesn't surprise me here that in the end he decides to side with Elon Musk because look that two hundred and fifty million dollars plus that Elon threw unto the campaign, Like that wasn't for free. This is a key issue for him. He's going to get what he wants because he effectively bought his way into this government.

He is looking out for him his own capitalist interest and this is a huge issue among the tech not just the tech right, just among the tech sector tech capitalist period. Which is why when Trump went on the All In podcast, which is like the Tech Broke podcast back several months ago during the campaign, Yosager took a mediate note of the fact that Trump offered up in that interview. Hey, I think if you graduate from any college in this country, you should have a green cart a stapled to your degree. That was clearly something he was, you know, knew he needed to give to that community in order to take in the hundreds of millions of dollars and the political support that he ultimately got from them. So you know, he chose his side quite a while ago. So it doesn't surprise me here that in the end he decides to side with Elon Musk because look that two hundred and fifty million dollars plus that Elon threw unto the campaign, Like that wasn't for free. This is a key issue for him. He's going to get what he wants because he effectively bought his way into this government.

Well, what's funny is what you said earlier about this also being a key issue for Donald Trump. The rhetoric that Donald Trump used repeatedly in his twenty sixteen campaign and his twenty twenty campaign, throughout his presidency and since about immigration has actually captured a sentiment that is is not false. It's not rooted in some false narrative. It is absolutely true. I mean that you can look at all of the Cato Institute studies, et cetera, et cetera, but you could also listen to people like Orange Cass who make the plan, or Bernie Sanders Sanders circa like nineteen ninety nine, who make the point play in this day that when you are creating so much unfair competition for American workers, meaning people who can be paid less, you're going to naturally depress the wages. Now, whether or not that is made up in different sectors of the economy is a different question. But when you are bringing H one B visa people into the country to do sort of mid range coding, whatever it is, Elon Musk has been tweeting again sort of relentlessly about how this is not work that Americans want to do. It's sort of the work that allows us to attract foreign labor like a magnet. It's great for tech, and then these people sort of stay and bring their talents into the United States. And obviously there's room for some of that, but it is also disincentivizing the creation of or it's disincentivizing Americans from going into the middle of those ladders too. And what really the middle I'm talking about, like the ladder of career work. Now this let's put this. I'm about to share this Laura Lumer tweet since we mentioned her because she was sort of instrumental in making this a viral debate, because not surprisingly, it's got very personal right away, obviously we mentioned Sharam Krishnan, who was appointed as the Senior Policy Advisor for Artificial Intelligence at the White House, and well, I think in an AI position, it's natural that you have some oversight actually over the administration's policies on things like H one B. So Lumer tweets deeply disturbing to see thet his appointment as senior policy advisor. It's alarming to see the number of career leftists who are now being appointed to serving Trump's admin When they share views that are in direct opposition to Trump's America First agenda. So that just absolutely kicks it off because she's quoting krishan on saying anything to remove country caps for green card slash unlocked skilled immigration would be huge in response to an Elon Musk tweet about Doge. So then I am now going to share vi vik Ramaswami.

Well, what's funny is what you said earlier about this also being a key issue for Donald Trump. The rhetoric that Donald Trump used repeatedly in his twenty sixteen campaign and his twenty twenty campaign, throughout his presidency and since about immigration has actually captured a sentiment that is is not false. It's not rooted in some false narrative. It is absolutely true. I mean that you can look at all of the Cato Institute studies, et cetera, et cetera, but you could also listen to people like Orange Cass who make the plan, or Bernie Sanders Sanders circa like nineteen ninety nine, who make the point play in this day that when you are creating so much unfair competition for American workers, meaning people who can be paid less, you're going to naturally depress the wages. Now, whether or not that is made up in different sectors of the economy is a different question. But when you are bringing H one B visa people into the country to do sort of mid range coding, whatever it is, Elon Musk has been tweeting again sort of relentlessly about how this is not work that Americans want to do. It's sort of the work that allows us to attract foreign labor like a magnet. It's great for tech, and then these people sort of stay and bring their talents into the United States. And obviously there's room for some of that, but it is also disincentivizing the creation of or it's disincentivizing Americans from going into the middle of those ladders too. And what really the middle I'm talking about, like the ladder of career work. Now this let's put this. I'm about to share this Laura Lumer tweet since we mentioned her because she was sort of instrumental in making this a viral debate, because not surprisingly, it's got very personal right away, obviously we mentioned Sharam Krishnan, who was appointed as the Senior Policy Advisor for Artificial Intelligence at the White House, and well, I think in an AI position, it's natural that you have some oversight actually over the administration's policies on things like H one B. So Lumer tweets deeply disturbing to see thet his appointment as senior policy advisor. It's alarming to see the number of career leftists who are now being appointed to serving Trump's admin When they share views that are in direct opposition to Trump's America First agenda. So that just absolutely kicks it off because she's quoting krishan on saying anything to remove country caps for green card slash unlocked skilled immigration would be huge in response to an Elon Musk tweet about Doge. So then I am now going to share vi vik Ramaswami.

Who I mean, it's just where really get interesting.

Who I mean, it's just where really get interesting.

This is the gasoline on the fire. So it's already a significant sort of internecine battle in Maga world. But then vivike Ramaswami comes in with this very interesting and very long post on X. If you're watching this you can see that I'm just scrolling through it. I would estimate off the top of my head it's like two hundred and fifty words. This is the day after Christmas. Laura Lumer was like going after Rocanna whatever, like literally on Christmas, which we'll talk about. But the key part of this viviaq Ramaswami tweet is where he says it's all goes back to the quote Seaword Crystal, did you say that? He said that? It's a key part of it comes down to the sea word culture, So this is OK. That seaword. Yeah, I don't know what you were thinking of, Crystal, But he says, tough questions demand tough answers, and if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the capital t truth. Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long. He then goes on to say a culture that venerates Corey for Boy Meets World, there's Zack and Slater over Screech and saved by the Bell, he will not produce the best engineers. He's also talking about Rkle and family matters. He goes on to talk about Friends. He says, more movies like Whiplash, fewer reruns of Friends, which is incredibly offensive to me but probably other people too, but mostly me. Then he said, more books, less TV, more creating, less quote unquote chilling, more extracurriculars less quote unquote hanging out at the mall. He sounds like a parent in like a nineteen ninety five. He sounds like the dad in uh clueless. Actually, CHRISTI I was gonna say, like think of it.

This is the gasoline on the fire. So it's already a significant sort of internecine battle in Maga world. But then vivike Ramaswami comes in with this very interesting and very long post on X. If you're watching this you can see that I'm just scrolling through it. I would estimate off the top of my head it's like two hundred and fifty words. This is the day after Christmas. Laura Lumer was like going after Rocanna whatever, like literally on Christmas, which we'll talk about. But the key part of this viviaq Ramaswami tweet is where he says it's all goes back to the quote Seaword Crystal, did you say that? He said that? It's a key part of it comes down to the sea word culture, So this is OK. That seaword. Yeah, I don't know what you were thinking of, Crystal, But he says, tough questions demand tough answers, and if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the capital t truth. Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long. He then goes on to say a culture that venerates Corey for Boy Meets World, there's Zack and Slater over Screech and saved by the Bell, he will not produce the best engineers. He's also talking about Rkle and family matters. He goes on to talk about Friends. He says, more movies like Whiplash, fewer reruns of Friends, which is incredibly offensive to me but probably other people too, but mostly me. Then he said, more books, less TV, more creating, less quote unquote chilling, more extracurriculars less quote unquote hanging out at the mall. He sounds like a parent in like a nineteen ninety five. He sounds like the dad in uh clueless. Actually, CHRISTI I was gonna say, like think of it.

I it was better.

I it was better.

This is one of I have many things to say about this, But one of the things that really triggered me here is, like I have a teenager.

This is one of I have many things to say about this, But one of the things that really triggered me here is, like I have a teenager.

They don't hang out at the mall.

They don't hang out at the mall.

It was better when we had the nineties mall culture because at least kids were like together, irl and had some sort of something community. I mean, yes, it's based on this like you know, gross consumerism, but at least there was some sort of community. Actually, now the smartphone culture is, which is I guess, you know, sort of closer to what Vague wants here of being you know, constantly on your device and being you know, buried in buried in tech world is way worse than when they were watching these sitcoms, which had lots of like family and sort of like basic morality community values associated with them. When they're watching those sitcoms and hanging out at the mall. That's one of many issues I take with us anyway, Percy Emily.

It was better when we had the nineties mall culture because at least kids were like together, irl and had some sort of something community. I mean, yes, it's based on this like you know, gross consumerism, but at least there was some sort of community. Actually, now the smartphone culture is, which is I guess, you know, sort of closer to what Vague wants here of being you know, constantly on your device and being you know, buried in buried in tech world is way worse than when they were watching these sitcoms, which had lots of like family and sort of like basic morality community values associated with them. When they're watching those sitcoms and hanging out at the mall. That's one of many issues I take with us anyway, Percy Emily.

Yeah, and I know we're going to get in all of Mexican We have a soccer tweet, but it is it echoes something that you actually heard from JD Vance and hillbiliology that he's since kind of recanted, this critique of American culture, critique of the sort of white working class. It echoes a lot of the rhetoric that Donald Trump again was pretty instrumental in shifting the way Republicans at least talked, if not thought, about those issues. So let's share. This is Elon Musk. He says, the reason I'm in America this is on December twenty seventh, along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strug is because of h one B. Take a big step back and fuck yourself in the face. I will go to war on this issue, the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. He's channeling Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder there, as a lot of people have pointed out. But take a big step back.

Yeah, and I know we're going to get in all of Mexican We have a soccer tweet, but it is it echoes something that you actually heard from JD Vance and hillbiliology that he's since kind of recanted, this critique of American culture, critique of the sort of white working class. It echoes a lot of the rhetoric that Donald Trump again was pretty instrumental in shifting the way Republicans at least talked, if not thought, about those issues. So let's share. This is Elon Musk. He says, the reason I'm in America this is on December twenty seventh, along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strug is because of h one B. Take a big step back and fuck yourself in the face. I will go to war on this issue, the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. He's channeling Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder there, as a lot of people have pointed out. But take a big step back.

He also he also agreed with a post that called the mega people who were disagreeing with him retards and said that these people, I mean, it's very Hillary Clinton deplorables like taken to the umpteenth level. And you know, to go back to the vags tweet, which I think is really important to unpack for a variety of reasons. Not only does it echo so it echoes Mitt Romney forty seven percent, Yes, it echoes makers and takers, it echoes Hillary Clinton deplorables. That's the language you're talking about, which has been a shared view among Republican Democratic elites, especially with regards to the white working class in particular. And so you know, to go out again. This is like, this is to me the core battle to say no. If you're having a problem, like if you're struggling, it's your fault. It's because you watch too many sitcomps, because you indulged in sleepovers and having friends when you should have been doing math tutoring. And by the way, you're screwing up your kids too because you don't have them in the like math Olympics every weekend. And your values, this is the core part. Your values are the wrong values. The only values that you should care about is having your kids in this extremely high stress rat race from birth where if every moment isn't spent developing their capabilities so that they can deliver shareholder value for the elon Musks of the world, then you're failing. So it's not only an attack on American culture, and I think specifically on white working class culture, which is extraordinary given you just had this massive like education realignment and non college educated voters overwhelmingly going for Republicans. It's not only attack on that culture, it's an attack on any value that's not just about delivering market share in a aggressive capitalist system. And that, to me is what was extraordinary.

He also he also agreed with a post that called the mega people who were disagreeing with him retards and said that these people, I mean, it's very Hillary Clinton deplorables like taken to the umpteenth level. And you know, to go back to the vags tweet, which I think is really important to unpack for a variety of reasons. Not only does it echo so it echoes Mitt Romney forty seven percent, Yes, it echoes makers and takers, it echoes Hillary Clinton deplorables. That's the language you're talking about, which has been a shared view among Republican Democratic elites, especially with regards to the white working class in particular. And so you know, to go out again. This is like, this is to me the core battle to say no. If you're having a problem, like if you're struggling, it's your fault. It's because you watch too many sitcomps, because you indulged in sleepovers and having friends when you should have been doing math tutoring. And by the way, you're screwing up your kids too because you don't have them in the like math Olympics every weekend. And your values, this is the core part. Your values are the wrong values. The only values that you should care about is having your kids in this extremely high stress rat race from birth where if every moment isn't spent developing their capabilities so that they can deliver shareholder value for the elon Musks of the world, then you're failing. So it's not only an attack on American culture, and I think specifically on white working class culture, which is extraordinary given you just had this massive like education realignment and non college educated voters overwhelmingly going for Republicans. It's not only attack on that culture, it's an attack on any value that's not just about delivering market share in a aggressive capitalist system. And that, to me is what was extraordinary.

Now.

Now.

I mean for me, I like I have issues with the H one B program as constructed. I obviously disagree with both of these sides because I think all of this, whether you're blaming people and their culture or whether you're blaming immigrants, I think the real problem is point up at the Elon musk veig Ramaswami and Donald Trump's of the world, the billionaire oligarchs who have rigged the system to screw you and to benefit themselves. I think that's where the bulk of the blame needs to go. But the reason this was so extraordinary is because it really was a direct attack on especially white, non college educated voters, and frankly, a lot many many people pointed out that it's also the type of cultural critique that has been consistently leveled from Republicans at Black Americans. Basically like, oh, you're struggling not because of historic racism, but because you're too lazy and pull up your pants, et cetera. And now it's being trained at white Americans, and that also precipitated quite you know, quite a backlash and quite a lot of sentiment around this whole conversation.

I mean for me, I like I have issues with the H one B program as constructed. I obviously disagree with both of these sides because I think all of this, whether you're blaming people and their culture or whether you're blaming immigrants, I think the real problem is point up at the Elon musk veig Ramaswami and Donald Trump's of the world, the billionaire oligarchs who have rigged the system to screw you and to benefit themselves. I think that's where the bulk of the blame needs to go. But the reason this was so extraordinary is because it really was a direct attack on especially white, non college educated voters, and frankly, a lot many many people pointed out that it's also the type of cultural critique that has been consistently leveled from Republicans at Black Americans. Basically like, oh, you're struggling not because of historic racism, but because you're too lazy and pull up your pants, et cetera. And now it's being trained at white Americans, and that also precipitated quite you know, quite a backlash and quite a lot of sentiment around this whole conversation.

Yes, and it did listened, I think some genuine racism, because you get this this sense from some people who are out there defending Donald Trump that like, who are you the vague to critique white culture? Like only only whites can be mad about friends? Like how dare you as an outsider? But I think, on an even more serious note, so you just said something so important about how there's this idea of like so looking down maternalistically on the white working class, on the white middle class, even people who are going to college, who saying, I mean, that's what's so insane about this is critiquing the American culture while actually asking to import all of this foreign labor to compete with people who are going into that grind. As they're demanding you to stop watching friends start doing stem as though you can't do both, but like basically say more less sleepovers, more you know, like homework, whatever it is.

Yes, and it did listened, I think some genuine racism, because you get this this sense from some people who are out there defending Donald Trump that like, who are you the vague to critique white culture? Like only only whites can be mad about friends? Like how dare you as an outsider? But I think, on an even more serious note, so you just said something so important about how there's this idea of like so looking down maternalistically on the white working class, on the white middle class, even people who are going to college, who saying, I mean, that's what's so insane about this is critiquing the American culture while actually asking to import all of this foreign labor to compete with people who are going into that grind. As they're demanding you to stop watching friends start doing stem as though you can't do both, but like basically say more less sleepovers, more you know, like homework, whatever it is.

And think about that, I mean, how much of you thought about like, look, at team like depression and suicyber like. If anything, teenagers need to be hanging out more with friends and doing like the things that he is deriding here.

And think about that, I mean, how much of you thought about like, look, at team like depression and suicyber like. If anything, teenagers need to be hanging out more with friends and doing like the things that he is deriding here.

Yep. And then and then after you do all of that, after you forsake all of the sleepovers and the hangouts whatever, you're going to be compete with foreign labor that is going to be paid less. So you're in an unfair competition. And that has been happening for decades, and you and I have seen it. People who get outside of the Beltway have seen it. That has depressed, psychologically depressed the American working class because it feels like it is all for nothing when you are competing with people who came here and claimed asylum. And you and I may disagree on this, but it is like it's a real thing. And are being paid cash under the table for this landscaping job, and you're a landscaper and you cost them more money, and it's unfair competition.

Yep. And then and then after you do all of that, after you forsake all of the sleepovers and the hangouts whatever, you're going to be compete with foreign labor that is going to be paid less. So you're in an unfair competition. And that has been happening for decades, and you and I have seen it. People who get outside of the Beltway have seen it. That has depressed, psychologically depressed the American working class because it feels like it is all for nothing when you are competing with people who came here and claimed asylum. And you and I may disagree on this, but it is like it's a real thing. And are being paid cash under the table for this landscaping job, and you're a landscaper and you cost them more money, and it's unfair competition.

I mean, that's why I think we need more legal immigration because when you do have undocumented workers, then yeah, employers are going to skirt labor law. They're gonna pay them under the table cash not have to pay the additional benefits and protections, and yes, that creates unfair competition. That's why, you know, like for example, with the just to stick on H one B example, it's not that I'm opposed to bringing in high skilled workers or immigrants. I'm not opposed to that at all. But you can't set up a program guest worker. Programs are inherently exploitative, like if you are tied to your employer and if you get fired, then you're deported. Like of course they can abuse you in any myriad of ways and pay you less and you know, screw you over, and that yes, depresses wages across the board. So it's exploitative all the way around in that instance. So you know, that's why most of the studies show is even in when you had like the Maurial boat lift and they had this huge influx of Cuban migrants into Florida, it actually didn't significantly impact the wages of the native born workforce. The problem is when you have programs that are set up such that they are inherently exploitative, and when you have so few legal pathways for people to come into the country that they're coming in in undocumented fashion and then yeah, getting paid under the table and you know themselves getting screwed and undercutting the local workforce as well.

I mean, that's why I think we need more legal immigration because when you do have undocumented workers, then yeah, employers are going to skirt labor law. They're gonna pay them under the table cash not have to pay the additional benefits and protections, and yes, that creates unfair competition. That's why, you know, like for example, with the just to stick on H one B example, it's not that I'm opposed to bringing in high skilled workers or immigrants. I'm not opposed to that at all. But you can't set up a program guest worker. Programs are inherently exploitative, like if you are tied to your employer and if you get fired, then you're deported. Like of course they can abuse you in any myriad of ways and pay you less and you know, screw you over, and that yes, depresses wages across the board. So it's exploitative all the way around in that instance. So you know, that's why most of the studies show is even in when you had like the Maurial boat lift and they had this huge influx of Cuban migrants into Florida, it actually didn't significantly impact the wages of the native born workforce. The problem is when you have programs that are set up such that they are inherently exploitative, and when you have so few legal pathways for people to come into the country that they're coming in in undocumented fashion and then yeah, getting paid under the table and you know themselves getting screwed and undercutting the local workforce as well.

Let's roll this clip of Steve Bannon, because it just for a sense of where the battle lines have been drawn. And I think how significant again this actually is. This is this is not like, this is not the media trying to create problems where there aren't problems. And you can take it from Steve Bannon himself, who weighed in on all this again, like it's not surprising. These battle lines are not surprising, by the way. What is surprising to me is how surprised Elon Muskin, like the sort of David Sacks people were by this. So let's listen to.

Let's roll this clip of Steve Bannon, because it just for a sense of where the battle lines have been drawn. And I think how significant again this actually is. This is this is not like, this is not the media trying to create problems where there aren't problems. And you can take it from Steve Bannon himself, who weighed in on all this again, like it's not surprising. These battle lines are not surprising, by the way. What is surprising to me is how surprised Elon Muskin, like the sort of David Sacks people were by this. So let's listen to.

Bannon then nastier tweets he put up last night about MAGA being racist, which is the last refuge of a scoundrel in modern politics, to to quote Andrew Breitbart via Johnson right this last night we put up on the screen. I appreciate it. This is Elon Musk. The reason I'm in America, along with so many critical people who built SpaceX, Tesla and hundreds of other companies that made America strong is because of h one b take a big step back in. F yourself all caps in the face. F yourself in the face. I will go to war on this issue, the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. Oh yeah, tough guy, that you're going to go to war on the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend. You're you're a manchild. I hate to make it personal, but what you have done is try to trash individuals punching down. Remember the first rule a gladiator school, bro, don't punch down. Be the punch a peer, a punch up, I responded last night, someone please notify notify Child Protective Services need to do a wellness check on this toddler. I hate to be snarky, but I think the moment called for it. When people come uph you got to take the temperature. No, we're not going to take the temperature down. We're not going to take the temperature down. Oh no, oh no, oh no, we do not. It's no backing down. It's doubling down. It's no retreat. It's fixed by NEETs in its advance, and it's not surrender. It's victory. We're going to win this. Let me repeat. The H one B VISA program is a total incomplete scam concocted by the lords of easy money on Wall Street, in the Ola Garks in Silicon Valley to both initially to just increase profit margins, but there's a darker element to it today, a contempt of America and American citizens, and we're not going to tolerate it.