Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Brexit means brexit.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Brexit means brexit.

On day one of the new Parliament in December, we will start getting our new deal through, so we get Brexit done.

On day one of the new Parliament in December, we will start getting our new deal through, so we get Brexit done.

I was proud to back Brexit, proud.

I was proud to back Brexit, proud.

To back leave.

To back leave.

So three former prime ministers Tasa Mayrishi Sinac and Boris Johnson, they're expressing strong opinions about the UK's future outside of the European Union. So brexit means brexit. But what does brexit mean for a labor government? Hello, you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Stephen Carroll.

So three former prime ministers Tasa Mayrishi Sinac and Boris Johnson, they're expressing strong opinions about the UK's future outside of the European Union. So brexit means brexit. But what does brexit mean for a labor government? Hello, you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Stephen Carroll.

And I'm you and Potts. Welcome to the program. So Kirs Starmer is in Brussels today on a mission to reset relations with the European Union. You could say the UK treats the EU a bit like a faulty appliance. Given a number of times it's tried to turn it off and turn it on again.

And I'm you and Potts. Welcome to the program. So Kirs Starmer is in Brussels today on a mission to reset relations with the European Union. You could say the UK treats the EU a bit like a faulty appliance. Given a number of times it's tried to turn it off and turn it on again.

We've heard how are UFX things?

We've heard how are UFX things?

Well, yeah it is doesn't always work though, that's the only problem. We've heard endlessly about the PM's desire for a better relationship with Europe. But now I think the hard reality of negotiation is starting to come clear.

Well, yeah it is doesn't always work though, that's the only problem. We've heard endlessly about the PM's desire for a better relationship with Europe. But now I think the hard reality of negotiation is starting to come clear.

Yeah. Look, the UK is going into this meeting with the list of things that it wants to achieve. Closer cooperation on defense just one of them as well, a relaxation of checks on foods, for example. But there are things that Brussels once in return, for example, a youth mobility to packed and more reassurances over citizens' rights as well. None of these areas are going to be terribly comfortable for Curris Starmor either.

Yeah. Look, the UK is going into this meeting with the list of things that it wants to achieve. Closer cooperation on defense just one of them as well, a relaxation of checks on foods, for example. But there are things that Brussels once in return, for example, a youth mobility to packed and more reassurances over citizens' rights as well. None of these areas are going to be terribly comfortable for Curris Starmor either.

No, and I think if you plot UK E relations in a Bloomberg chart, I'm supposed no one's done this. Our favorite thing to do then would be some way off the record lows of the Boris Johnson days. Remember Ursula Vonderline calling Sunak dear Rishi and the Windsor framework eighteen months ago. Clear signs of warming in relations, but mood music aside. I think real progress is going to be a really hard slog.

No, and I think if you plot UK E relations in a Bloomberg chart, I'm supposed no one's done this. Our favorite thing to do then would be some way off the record lows of the Boris Johnson days. Remember Ursula Vonderline calling Sunak dear Rishi and the Windsor framework eighteen months ago. Clear signs of warming in relations, but mood music aside. I think real progress is going to be a really hard slog.

Yeah, let's bringing our manager editor for European Economy and Government band Sales for more on this.

Yeah, let's bringing our manager editor for European Economy and Government band Sales for more on this.

Ben.

Ben.

We spoke to Michel Barniy over a year ago, now no the French Prime Minister, but when we asked him about the relationships between the European Union and the UK. He felt the things had already pretty pretty dramatically improved from the days of Boris Johnson. What sort of reception is kir Starmer likely to get in Brussels.

We spoke to Michel Barniy over a year ago, now no the French Prime Minister, but when we asked him about the relationships between the European Union and the UK. He felt the things had already pretty pretty dramatically improved from the days of Boris Johnson. What sort of reception is kir Starmer likely to get in Brussels.

I think it's going to be a warm reception, but not too warm. The Europeans are obviously delighted that they don't have to deal with Johnson anymore. And you know, for them, as you say, sun Aq was a major improvement because Johnson had just made kind of like EU bashing such a fundamental part of his political operation. It was like the kind of first or second option in any kind of off the cup speech, and there are a lot of those. So things have already got better. Enjoying the suon Ac times, but the disarray of the sun A government, I was going to say late periods so that government, But to be honest, this from start to finish it was it was pretty chaotic. But you know, the problems that Sunak had made him quite a difficult person to do any real business with because because he couldn't get things done. Starma is in a much stronger position obviously, and he's he's kind of like inherently amenable to EU matters. But I think that the difficulty will be the actual concrete steps are tricky and trying to work out how to rebuild the relationship, where to focus on rebuilding efforts, particularly within like the political well, the political constraints that Starmer faces because he doesn't want to go anywhere near the actual Brexit question again, but also the constraints that the Europeans face, you know, Germany, France, they're in a total mess. The EU doesn't have a whole load of bandwidth for dealing with the UK at the moment. I think that's probably going to be the biggest limiting factor.

I think it's going to be a warm reception, but not too warm. The Europeans are obviously delighted that they don't have to deal with Johnson anymore. And you know, for them, as you say, sun Aq was a major improvement because Johnson had just made kind of like EU bashing such a fundamental part of his political operation. It was like the kind of first or second option in any kind of off the cup speech, and there are a lot of those. So things have already got better. Enjoying the suon Ac times, but the disarray of the sun A government, I was going to say late periods so that government, But to be honest, this from start to finish it was it was pretty chaotic. But you know, the problems that Sunak had made him quite a difficult person to do any real business with because because he couldn't get things done. Starma is in a much stronger position obviously, and he's he's kind of like inherently amenable to EU matters. But I think that the difficulty will be the actual concrete steps are tricky and trying to work out how to rebuild the relationship, where to focus on rebuilding efforts, particularly within like the political well, the political constraints that Starmer faces because he doesn't want to go anywhere near the actual Brexit question again, but also the constraints that the Europeans face, you know, Germany, France, they're in a total mess. The EU doesn't have a whole load of bandwidth for dealing with the UK at the moment. I think that's probably going to be the biggest limiting factor.

Is this meeting really all about the vibes, because as you say that, the detail of the of stuff is tricky, isn't It's difficult.

Is this meeting really all about the vibes, because as you say that, the detail of the of stuff is tricky, isn't It's difficult.

Yeah, And I do think that if you look at it from Starmer's point of view, I think that he needs to go slowly and just established that he can go to Brussels, he can have a photo opportunity with Underline and come back to the UK without triggering a load of kind of brexits sell out headlines from the right wing press. And therefore, you know, I think you're right, it is lies about mood music. But I think mood music matters because if you can if you can establish that, that gives him a bit more space to look at compromises on the substance and you know the thing about Starma and indeed on the line now, who's you know what looks out to be confirmed for second term? They can afford to think about this, you know, for the long term. They both got a full term stretching out ahead of them, and Star, although he's probably not looking that far, could could reasonably expect to perhaps secure a second term as well, give given the size of his majority.

Yeah, And I do think that if you look at it from Starmer's point of view, I think that he needs to go slowly and just established that he can go to Brussels, he can have a photo opportunity with Underline and come back to the UK without triggering a load of kind of brexits sell out headlines from the right wing press. And therefore, you know, I think you're right, it is lies about mood music. But I think mood music matters because if you can if you can establish that, that gives him a bit more space to look at compromises on the substance and you know the thing about Starma and indeed on the line now, who's you know what looks out to be confirmed for second term? They can afford to think about this, you know, for the long term. They both got a full term stretching out ahead of them, and Star, although he's probably not looking that far, could could reasonably expect to perhaps secure a second term as well, give given the size of his majority.

Yes, they have a bit of time to to try and figure things out. On the concrete fronts. I mentioned a couple of the things that the UK wants, you know, easier checks on on food, for example, what where might we see progress? Where do we think there could be the idea that actually things might concretely change in their relationship.

Yes, they have a bit of time to to try and figure things out. On the concrete fronts. I mentioned a couple of the things that the UK wants, you know, easier checks on on food, for example, what where might we see progress? Where do we think there could be the idea that actually things might concretely change in their relationship.

Yeah, I think it's those kind of nitty gritty, slightly boring but important details that offer the most possibility in the short term, both because they're probably not going to be tracting a lot of head generating a lot of headlines, and that that that's to starm as advantage but they also will make a meaningful difference for people who are to negotiate the the trading relationship between the UK and the EU on the front lines. So I think the UK proposals on security and veterinary deals, we heard from the EU side that they seem doable. They were looking for a little bit more detail, if details what they want. That seems like the sort of thing that you could, you know, quite productively discuss today's meetings and lay out perhaps a roadmap how to advance towards towards some kind of agreement.

Yeah, I think it's those kind of nitty gritty, slightly boring but important details that offer the most possibility in the short term, both because they're probably not going to be tracting a lot of head generating a lot of headlines, and that that that's to starm as advantage but they also will make a meaningful difference for people who are to negotiate the the trading relationship between the UK and the EU on the front lines. So I think the UK proposals on security and veterinary deals, we heard from the EU side that they seem doable. They were looking for a little bit more detail, if details what they want. That seems like the sort of thing that you could, you know, quite productively discuss today's meetings and lay out perhaps a roadmap how to advance towards towards some kind of agreement.

There's a lot going on in Europe as ever, isn't there an unpopular government in in Germany? A new French government which is grappling with the outside budget deficit. With all with all that stuff going on, do you think there's much appetite for you know, discussing things with the UK. Does does anybody care over there?

There's a lot going on in Europe as ever, isn't there an unpopular government in in Germany? A new French government which is grappling with the outside budget deficit. With all with all that stuff going on, do you think there's much appetite for you know, discussing things with the UK. Does does anybody care over there?

I think that it's definitely true that the UK prched vast amounts of goodwill over the past, you know, eight years since the Brexit vote. However, the two fundamental challenges, Mario Dragon would say, existential challenges that the EU faces at the moment are on competitiveness, and on security. You can have a debate about how much the UK could contribute on competitiveness, but on security the UK defense industry, the UK remains one of the major military powers in Europe, and I think both sides are aware that the seriousness of the Russian threat at this point in time is such that they don't really have the luxury of politiking over this issue, and that the UK and the European militaries can and probably should be looking at ways to deepen their cooperation and work together in order to produce a serious deterrent for the Russians.

I think that it's definitely true that the UK prched vast amounts of goodwill over the past, you know, eight years since the Brexit vote. However, the two fundamental challenges, Mario Dragon would say, existential challenges that the EU faces at the moment are on competitiveness, and on security. You can have a debate about how much the UK could contribute on competitiveness, but on security the UK defense industry, the UK remains one of the major military powers in Europe, and I think both sides are aware that the seriousness of the Russian threat at this point in time is such that they don't really have the luxury of politiking over this issue, and that the UK and the European militaries can and probably should be looking at ways to deepen their cooperation and work together in order to produce a serious deterrent for the Russians.

Ben you can't cover European politics for as long as you have without programming a meeting experts, A meetingologist, probably an EU language would probably called what's the significance of of UK ministers getting to attend EU meetings, which, according to our reporting, is one of the things that we're expecting to come out of this trip to Brussels.

Ben you can't cover European politics for as long as you have without programming a meeting experts, A meetingologist, probably an EU language would probably called what's the significance of of UK ministers getting to attend EU meetings, which, according to our reporting, is one of the things that we're expecting to come out of this trip to Brussels.

You know, you're dead right. There's a lot of kind of criminology that goes into this, and the issue of who appears in the photo, who gets on the on the minutes matters because it's a signal to that whole policy making apparatus of who's included, who's on the inside, who's on the outside, and and it's you know again, it's it's it's symbolic, but it's important symbolism that this dialogue is happening and both sides are signaling their willingness to work together and actually do things.

You know, you're dead right. There's a lot of kind of criminology that goes into this, and the issue of who appears in the photo, who gets on the on the minutes matters because it's a signal to that whole policy making apparatus of who's included, who's on the inside, who's on the outside, and and it's you know again, it's it's it's symbolic, but it's important symbolism that this dialogue is happening and both sides are signaling their willingness to work together and actually do things.

And what about the timeline going forward. We don't expect any major announcements from this week's meetings, but we've got any idea of when some actual stuff might be negotiated. You know, Brussels tends to move quite slowly, doesn't it.

And what about the timeline going forward. We don't expect any major announcements from this week's meetings, but we've got any idea of when some actual stuff might be negotiated. You know, Brussels tends to move quite slowly, doesn't it.

We're waiting for this new commission to be confirmed. The hearings aren't expected to start until November next month. Now beyond that, I don't think it's really a priority. I would imagine this is going to be a kind of secondary issue that will perhaps chug along in the background for a little while. But you know, once the new commissioners take up their mandates, it's something that we'll be following and waiting for them to pop up with some developments.

We're waiting for this new commission to be confirmed. The hearings aren't expected to start until November next month. Now beyond that, I don't think it's really a priority. I would imagine this is going to be a kind of secondary issue that will perhaps chug along in the background for a little while. But you know, once the new commissioners take up their mandates, it's something that we'll be following and waiting for them to pop up with some developments.

One of the things that Labor said no to quite early on in the government was this deal to our young people and the EU to come and work in the UK and vice versa. Do you have any idea why labor seems opposed to this, because it's something that on the U side they definitely want.

One of the things that Labor said no to quite early on in the government was this deal to our young people and the EU to come and work in the UK and vice versa. Do you have any idea why labor seems opposed to this, because it's something that on the U side they definitely want.

What we were hearing in London was that the UK are just a little bit leary of anything that might inflate the migration figures. That's been such a massive issue for you know, the last government and it remains a massive issue for voters. It's something that the Starma has promised to address and therefore they're just a little bit course of anything that could make the numbers going the wrong way. I mean, having said that, the idea of having a bunch of twenty something European students come over to work or to study in the UK is it's pretty different from having asylum seekers arriving on boats. And you would hope that as as the government becomes a bit more comfortable and beds in, they might be ready to flex a bit on that. But that's you know, that's what we're hearing at the moment.

What we were hearing in London was that the UK are just a little bit leary of anything that might inflate the migration figures. That's been such a massive issue for you know, the last government and it remains a massive issue for voters. It's something that the Starma has promised to address and therefore they're just a little bit course of anything that could make the numbers going the wrong way. I mean, having said that, the idea of having a bunch of twenty something European students come over to work or to study in the UK is it's pretty different from having asylum seekers arriving on boats. And you would hope that as as the government becomes a bit more comfortable and beds in, they might be ready to flex a bit on that. But that's you know, that's what we're hearing at the moment.

Ben, Really good to get your thoughts. That's Ben Sills, our managing editor for European Economy and Government. So I think lots of warm words and nice photo nice photo shoots this week, but lots of difficult things to negotiat and all sorts of things that the UK really doesn't want to good ground on.

Ben, Really good to get your thoughts. That's Ben Sills, our managing editor for European Economy and Government. So I think lots of warm words and nice photo nice photo shoots this week, but lots of difficult things to negotiat and all sorts of things that the UK really doesn't want to good ground on.

Yeah, and indeed, you know, getting to the negotiation point is going to be the difficult one as well. And then there'll be a question, you know that will these negotiations be as arduous and difficult as the bregsit negotiations are And that'll be very difficult to tell until we get the exact outline of what they're going to negotiate over. We have a couple of ideas the issues of interest to both sides, but they have to sign up and then you know, you have to get basically twenty seven countries on one side to agree to the same negotiating framework as well, which was something that was very difficult to do for the Brexit negotiations. So a lot start of along road, I think on this issue. That's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe, give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Yeah, and indeed, you know, getting to the negotiation point is going to be the difficult one as well. And then there'll be a question, you know that will these negotiations be as arduous and difficult as the bregsit negotiations are And that'll be very difficult to tell until we get the exact outline of what they're going to negotiate over. We have a couple of ideas the issues of interest to both sides, but they have to sign up and then you know, you have to get basically twenty seven countries on one side to agree to the same negotiating framework as well, which was something that was very difficult to do for the Brexit negotiations. So a lot start of along road, I think on this issue. That's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe, give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

This episode was produced by two at a Bio and the audio Engineer with Sean gostomachia. I'm new and Potts and.

This episode was produced by two at a Bio and the audio Engineer with Sean gostomachia. I'm new and Potts and.

I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back with more tomorrow. This is Bloomberg.

I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back with more tomorrow. This is Bloomberg.

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