Energy and air pollution will be one of the top five issues for.

Energy and air pollution will be one of the top five issues for.

The general election. We talk about being controlled.

The general election. We talk about being controlled.

He's not rich.

He's not rich.

It's for various factions under him, and it suits them to have him.

It's for various factions under him, and it suits them to have him.

At the front.

At the front.

To try saper house deposit and you'd have to save up some crazy amount of money. How earth you're going to do that? If a point seven pounds.

To try saper house deposit and you'd have to save up some crazy amount of money. How earth you're going to do that? If a point seven pounds.

There's certain key things that we want from in the and are certain key things that they want promise.

There's certain key things that we want from in the and are certain key things that they want promise.

You're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm you and Potts and I'm Stephen Carroll. Welcome to the program. You and have you been making any prank calls?

You're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm you and Potts and I'm Stephen Carroll. Welcome to the program. You and have you been making any prank calls?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Always you, it's you that does this. How did I not know this? I'm referencing a story that was in the Sun over the weekend saying that you see the next long time personal mobile number was leaked online.

Always you, it's you that does this. How did I not know this? I'm referencing a story that was in the Sun over the weekend saying that you see the next long time personal mobile number was leaked online.

Yeah. Apparently social media pranksters to use the tabloid parlance.

Yeah. Apparently social media pranksters to use the tabloid parlance.

Apparently called some going to pranks during your time.

Apparently called some going to pranks during your time.

Look pranksters stop calling the PM. Aparently they called the PM's private number and got his answer phone message. This is, of course, remember two and a half years after Boris Johnson was forced to change his mobile number after a similar leak. Sun says that so that was given a new separate number when he came into power a year ago, but the old number continues to be in use. I kind of surprised this doesn't have more often because you think how many people have these senior politicians phone numbers. I'm thinking of journalists in particular. I mean, I haven't got number, but I've got quite a lot of journalists phone.

Look pranksters stop calling the PM. Aparently they called the PM's private number and got his answer phone message. This is, of course, remember two and a half years after Boris Johnson was forced to change his mobile number after a similar leak. Sun says that so that was given a new separate number when he came into power a year ago, but the old number continues to be in use. I kind of surprised this doesn't have more often because you think how many people have these senior politicians phone numbers. I'm thinking of journalists in particular. I mean, I haven't got number, but I've got quite a lot of journalists phone.

Numbers, numbers, Yes, we've got journalist numbers as well.

Numbers, numbers, Yes, we've got journalist numbers as well.

I've got journalis.

I've got journalis.

Though I was previously discussed, I don't tend.

Though I was previously discussed, I don't tend.

To leak them, but I mean you can see the temptation if you, if you were that way inclined to do it. So I'm surprised this doesn't have more often.

To leak them, but I mean you can see the temptation if you, if you were that way inclined to do it. So I'm surprised this doesn't have more often.

Yeah, I mean I'm not surprised an answer its phone. I don't answers their phone anymore.

Yeah, I mean I'm not surprised an answer its phone. I don't answers their phone anymore.

Actually, no phone calls horrible.

Actually, no phone calls horrible.

But perhaps these pranksters, as as dictated to by the Sun, were calling to leave a message asking for tax cuts. Maybe this is after a series of newspaperports over the weekend saying that Rasci scenacts considering a stamp duty reduction and other tax cuts for top earners after the Conservative Party's latest by election defeat. So there's a couple of these reports floating around the newspapers over the weekend, the Time saying that senior Tories wanted to include the stamp duty cut in a general election manifesto as a promise to perhaps help the Tories improve their performance in the next election. The Telegraph meanwhile saying that a tax cut for the UK's five million highest earners is also being considered. So apparently Downing Street has been carrying out surveys to find out which move would boost the party the most ahead of the general election, and perhaps there could be measures announced even as early as the twenty twenty four spring budget. We've been told, of course, again and again that the scope for doing anything in the Autumn Statement is very limited because of the lack of fiscal headroom. For want of a better expression, basically, yeah, there's no money, no cash. Yeah, but this an interesting bit of kite flying.

But perhaps these pranksters, as as dictated to by the Sun, were calling to leave a message asking for tax cuts. Maybe this is after a series of newspaperports over the weekend saying that Rasci scenacts considering a stamp duty reduction and other tax cuts for top earners after the Conservative Party's latest by election defeat. So there's a couple of these reports floating around the newspapers over the weekend, the Time saying that senior Tories wanted to include the stamp duty cut in a general election manifesto as a promise to perhaps help the Tories improve their performance in the next election. The Telegraph meanwhile saying that a tax cut for the UK's five million highest earners is also being considered. So apparently Downing Street has been carrying out surveys to find out which move would boost the party the most ahead of the general election, and perhaps there could be measures announced even as early as the twenty twenty four spring budget. We've been told, of course, again and again that the scope for doing anything in the Autumn Statement is very limited because of the lack of fiscal headroom. For want of a better expression, basically, yeah, there's no money, no cash. Yeah, but this an interesting bit of kite flying.

Yeah, it's almost exactly a month now to the Autumn statement. Twenty second of them, no them, We're going to get that. We've been told no big duty in anouncement, so we'll see if that happens. That we did get those public boring figures last week which showed stronger tax receipts and lower debt interest payments for the month of September. Of course, the reason that the government is thinking about changing the highway thresholder is because they've frozen it for all the years up to twenty twenty seven and that's going to drag a lot of people into higher rate income tax if they continue with that, So it's kind of undoing the policy they announced when money was super tight last year.

Yeah, it's almost exactly a month now to the Autumn statement. Twenty second of them, no them, We're going to get that. We've been told no big duty in anouncement, so we'll see if that happens. That we did get those public boring figures last week which showed stronger tax receipts and lower debt interest payments for the month of September. Of course, the reason that the government is thinking about changing the highway thresholder is because they've frozen it for all the years up to twenty twenty seven and that's going to drag a lot of people into higher rate income tax if they continue with that, So it's kind of undoing the policy they announced when money was super tight last year.

More tax chats to come in the run ups to the autumn statement, of course, But let's turn our focus to technology. Just over a week away from the UK's flagship artificial intelligence summits, the government wants countries to sign up to a common approach on AI and thinks that it can lead the world in hammering out a dialogue around this technology. The politicians have long tried to claim the UK's aiming to be a tech super hub like Silicon Valley. Our reporter Mark we Wagan's been writing about this and whether the UK's tax scene really lives up to the hype.

More tax chats to come in the run ups to the autumn statement, of course, But let's turn our focus to technology. Just over a week away from the UK's flagship artificial intelligence summits, the government wants countries to sign up to a common approach on AI and thinks that it can lead the world in hammering out a dialogue around this technology. The politicians have long tried to claim the UK's aiming to be a tech super hub like Silicon Valley. Our reporter Mark we Wagan's been writing about this and whether the UK's tax scene really lives up to the hype.

Mark.

Mark.

Great to have you with us on the show. We speak to many politicians on this show, and when they want to talk up the UK, we hear about tech and AI and our startup culture. How how much should we believe of that hype.

Great to have you with us on the show. We speak to many politicians on this show, and when they want to talk up the UK, we hear about tech and AI and our startup culture. How how much should we believe of that hype.

I'll start with the with the don't believe much case, and then I can go to the to the bullcase and to believe more than maybe you have in the past. Okay, I do think, I mean, you know, there's a do you remember the Silicon roundabout, which I think was almost a decade ago, right.

I'll start with the with the don't believe much case, and then I can go to the to the bullcase and to believe more than maybe you have in the past. Okay, I do think, I mean, you know, there's a do you remember the Silicon roundabout, which I think was almost a decade ago, right.

Less glamorous than a valley.

Less glamorous than a valley.

But it's just going through the list of companies initially from there and I will confess I had not heard of.

But it's just going through the list of companies initially from there and I will confess I had not heard of.

Any of them.

Any of them.

Join a bus later and Saji Rymes.

Join a bus later and Saji Rymes.

Yeah there, I mean there, there's certainly you know the certainly this year got off to a terrible start for the UK tech with with arm DeCamps to New York. We have revolute the most valuable startup in the UK and Europe has has just been locked in this battle with the with the government over the banking license. Kind of fintech in general has come down tremendously from it's pretty high, uh probably arguably too high valuation. Delivery has not really performed as well. Since going public, and they's just not this sort of pipeline that that you have in Silicon Valley in India, now in Asia, in China of companies doing tremendously fast growth and then having an exit either an I p O or or a sale and then we talk about AI. There's you know, none of the really big the generative AI. These sort of new way of AI companies have emerged here with the asterisk being deep Mind, which which is part of Google and sort of still I think the kind of crown jewel of London text scene. H That being said, I do think there are a lot of opportunities for you know, one company here in the North calls itself boring.

Yeah there, I mean there, there's certainly you know the certainly this year got off to a terrible start for the UK tech with with arm DeCamps to New York. We have revolute the most valuable startup in the UK and Europe has has just been locked in this battle with the with the government over the banking license. Kind of fintech in general has come down tremendously from it's pretty high, uh probably arguably too high valuation. Delivery has not really performed as well. Since going public, and they's just not this sort of pipeline that that you have in Silicon Valley in India, now in Asia, in China of companies doing tremendously fast growth and then having an exit either an I p O or or a sale and then we talk about AI. There's you know, none of the really big the generative AI. These sort of new way of AI companies have emerged here with the asterisk being deep Mind, which which is part of Google and sort of still I think the kind of crown jewel of London text scene. H That being said, I do think there are a lot of opportunities for you know, one company here in the North calls itself boring.

AI gets pretty apt for a lot of There are a lot.

AI gets pretty apt for a lot of There are a lot.

Of enterprise applications are not making chat GBT, but they're they're certainly kind of selling business software that has a pretty successful and often profitable business. There are, as I read about this morning, there are a lot of companies and the life sciences, in biotech and healthcare where the UK is really punching above its weight.

Of enterprise applications are not making chat GBT, but they're they're certainly kind of selling business software that has a pretty successful and often profitable business. There are, as I read about this morning, there are a lot of companies and the life sciences, in biotech and healthcare where the UK is really punching above its weight.

You mentioned arm and delivery. That's really about the kind of relative decline of the of the London sort of listings market, isn't it if we look at this sort of underlying technology though that the UK startup seeing is still pretty robust, isn't.

You mentioned arm and delivery. That's really about the kind of relative decline of the of the London sort of listings market, isn't it if we look at this sort of underlying technology though that the UK startup seeing is still pretty robust, isn't.

It, uh compared to what compared to the rest of Europe. Oh, I know, I think that's right. I think there're certainly pockets and and the UK is you know right now Paris with the French government has certainly been making and this is one of several pushes here, whether they're making a big investment, you know what, I think you can kind of separate two things. One is just sort of our current still hype cycle around artificial intelligence and these companies in AI, and and that is about innovation. That's about having a lot of engineers, which which the UK does have. You know, obviously institutions are academic institutions are probably some of the best in Europe and the world. But it's also about money. And frankly, you know, the UK government has come out and they've set up program for quantum computing and supercomputers and those the amount the outlets there are just paltry compared to what the US and China, which is expected.

It, uh compared to what compared to the rest of Europe. Oh, I know, I think that's right. I think there're certainly pockets and and the UK is you know right now Paris with the French government has certainly been making and this is one of several pushes here, whether they're making a big investment, you know what, I think you can kind of separate two things. One is just sort of our current still hype cycle around artificial intelligence and these companies in AI, and and that is about innovation. That's about having a lot of engineers, which which the UK does have. You know, obviously institutions are academic institutions are probably some of the best in Europe and the world. But it's also about money. And frankly, you know, the UK government has come out and they've set up program for quantum computing and supercomputers and those the amount the outlets there are just paltry compared to what the US and China, which is expected.

Right It's and is that is that really what's key?

Right It's and is that is that really what's key?

To actually having a healthy startup scenes is essentially having a giant bag of cash, or at least other people nearby who have giant bags of cash and are willing.

To actually having a healthy startup scenes is essentially having a giant bag of cash, or at least other people nearby who have giant bags of cash and are willing.

To spend them on your new company.

To spend them on your new company.

It's sort of I mean, if you look at say the AI right now in Silicon Valley, it is giant bags of cash coming from Microsoft, Google, Amazon and NVIDIAU And weirdly like those giant bags of care, they're all all the four of those companies are investing heavily in startups. All the startups are spending heavily on in Nvidia chips and cloud with Microsoft.

It's sort of I mean, if you look at say the AI right now in Silicon Valley, it is giant bags of cash coming from Microsoft, Google, Amazon and NVIDIAU And weirdly like those giant bags of care, they're all all the four of those companies are investing heavily in startups. All the startups are spending heavily on in Nvidia chips and cloud with Microsoft.

Google and Amazon.

Google and Amazon.

And then you have the sort of the sand Hill Row Silicond of Bellley investment venture firms what had put in a lot more money what you've now. In Europe in particular, there were two foot during the big bubble period of twenty twenty twenty twenty two. There was Tiger Global and soft Bank that were investing and enormous sums of money. They've virtually disappeared. Soft Bank has come back with much smaller deals and Europe has just typically been Europe in the UK maybe five years behind.

And then you have the sort of the sand Hill Row Silicond of Bellley investment venture firms what had put in a lot more money what you've now. In Europe in particular, there were two foot during the big bubble period of twenty twenty twenty twenty two. There was Tiger Global and soft Bank that were investing and enormous sums of money. They've virtually disappeared. Soft Bank has come back with much smaller deals and Europe has just typically been Europe in the UK maybe five years behind.

Yeah, because you mentioned this in your piece today that the startup financing is falling, and you do say it. It is a problem everywhere, but it does seem particularly pronounced in the UK as well.

Yeah, because you mentioned this in your piece today that the startup financing is falling, and you do say it. It is a problem everywhere, but it does seem particularly pronounced in the UK as well.

I think that's right.

I think that's right.

I don't think it's it's certainly not an outlier compared to the rest of Europe, but it's fallen kind of across the board. That's just the tough market and a lot of venture capital firms are now readjusting and talking a lot about oh, maybe we actually need to see profits as opposed to just brank growth.

I don't think it's it's certainly not an outlier compared to the rest of Europe, but it's fallen kind of across the board. That's just the tough market and a lot of venture capital firms are now readjusting and talking a lot about oh, maybe we actually need to see profits as opposed to just brank growth.

So what about the ms AI summits. There's been a lot of hyper the sort a lot of attempted hype from the government. What's the view in an industry? Is this a big deal or is it just some another government thing?

So what about the ms AI summits. There's been a lot of hyper the sort a lot of attempted hype from the government. What's the view in an industry? Is this a big deal or is it just some another government thing?

Uh, there is a little bit of by rolling. I do think there's which comes with both these government initiatives. I mean, I think there's the easy joke here is that you know, we're the UK is trying to be a positioned itself as a global leader on AI and so it's invited companies from the US. From from what we can tell of the of the invite list so far. That being said, there's there's a really interesting you know, the government has and this is something that a lot of you know, startups and investors talk about too as a sort of maybe silver lining of Brexit is like this opportunity to.

Uh, there is a little bit of by rolling. I do think there's which comes with both these government initiatives. I mean, I think there's the easy joke here is that you know, we're the UK is trying to be a positioned itself as a global leader on AI and so it's invited companies from the US. From from what we can tell of the of the invite list so far. That being said, there's there's a really interesting you know, the government has and this is something that a lot of you know, startups and investors talk about too as a sort of maybe silver lining of Brexit is like this opportunity to.

To regulate in a way that to be able different diverge.

To regulate in a way that to be able different diverge.

From because I mean the you know, when you think about GDPR, the the European Privacy Standard, it's seen as setting a kind of global standard for that as well. That's you know, one of the opptune is being pointed out today by one of Facebook's co founders who's talking about the idea of this being an opportunity for the UK to be able to do that. That's Dustin Moskovitz has been interviewed by The Times said.

From because I mean the you know, when you think about GDPR, the the European Privacy Standard, it's seen as setting a kind of global standard for that as well. That's you know, one of the opptune is being pointed out today by one of Facebook's co founders who's talking about the idea of this being an opportunity for the UK to be able to do that. That's Dustin Moskovitz has been interviewed by The Times said.

I agree, and I think that that is it's certainly the case where there's an opportunity here. It's unclear that as far as I know, the government hasn't come up with very concrete policies of what that looks like. And a lot of the conversation here is about extreme existential risk biological weapons AI being used in warfare or you know, even the sort of the long terms is the term this thinking that AI is going to destroy us all and there's certainly other people in the camp in the tech world that disagree strongly with that, and so this does feel.

I agree, and I think that that is it's certainly the case where there's an opportunity here. It's unclear that as far as I know, the government hasn't come up with very concrete policies of what that looks like. And a lot of the conversation here is about extreme existential risk biological weapons AI being used in warfare or you know, even the sort of the long terms is the term this thinking that AI is going to destroy us all and there's certainly other people in the camp in the tech world that disagree strongly with that, and so this does feel.

A little more philosophical.

A little more philosophical.

Than regulatory or I don't necessarily know that they're say, going to set in policies that will improve the UK.

Than regulatory or I don't necessarily know that they're say, going to set in policies that will improve the UK.

Startup scene or but who knows that they might. I think that's what they're looking for.

Startup scene or but who knows that they might. I think that's what they're looking for.

You mentioned in your piece there are some companies which you're doing well in the UK. Tell us more about that particular that sector.

You mentioned in your piece there are some companies which you're doing well in the UK. Tell us more about that particular that sector.

Yeah, I looked, I think kind of under the radar our life sciences in biotech, and there have been a couple interesting IPOs and there's Oxford, anoport A. There's some large sort of privately held companies now as well, and I think this is where there's some data that even during the pandemic, the funding has stayed pretty solid and resilient for health services companies that have paired up with the NHS or even expanded to the US. In biotech, so there's a lot of interesting companies doing applying AI to discovering new drugs and treatments, or doing genetics works or working on sort of new medical devices, and a lot of these companies have spun out of you know, Oxford, Cambridge and even some smaller universities, and I think that's where the UK's advantages and there's been a little bit of government support. You talk to startups that say that's been very useful. I don't think it gets enough attention to say as AI.

Yeah, I looked, I think kind of under the radar our life sciences in biotech, and there have been a couple interesting IPOs and there's Oxford, anoport A. There's some large sort of privately held companies now as well, and I think this is where there's some data that even during the pandemic, the funding has stayed pretty solid and resilient for health services companies that have paired up with the NHS or even expanded to the US. In biotech, so there's a lot of interesting companies doing applying AI to discovering new drugs and treatments, or doing genetics works or working on sort of new medical devices, and a lot of these companies have spun out of you know, Oxford, Cambridge and even some smaller universities, and I think that's where the UK's advantages and there's been a little bit of government support. You talk to startups that say that's been very useful. I don't think it gets enough attention to say as AI.

Because it does come across as sort of being the flashy new thing that everyone's trying to get their attention on. But I mean, is there is there merit in the idea of having this summit in the UK? Is is the UK putting itself out there is somewhere that could help to shape the guard rails that many in industry believe this technology needs to have.

Because it does come across as sort of being the flashy new thing that everyone's trying to get their attention on. But I mean, is there is there merit in the idea of having this summit in the UK? Is is the UK putting itself out there is somewhere that could help to shape the guard rails that many in industry believe this technology needs to have.

Uh I think, I mean my understanding is it's it's there's merit to the UK got there first, right? Is this the first sort of global and I think for my understanding is trying to this will be something they want to have maybe every single year in different places and sort of this. People have talked about a kind of a UN style global regulatory body.

Uh I think, I mean my understanding is it's it's there's merit to the UK got there first, right? Is this the first sort of global and I think for my understanding is trying to this will be something they want to have maybe every single year in different places and sort of this. People have talked about a kind of a UN style global regulatory body.

I do think this is my bias.

I do think this is my bias.

Me becoming as an American here like, but the UK navigating that that line with China and the US, and this like the tension that I think the most interesting story about the summit is that China has been invited. It's something that if you had a summit in in the US that would very be unlikely. And so maybe that that that's going to be quite a political feat to be able to navigate that and especially what we now increase tension around the supply chain and you know, everything to do with the trade war, and I think that's just only going to get more.

Me becoming as an American here like, but the UK navigating that that line with China and the US, and this like the tension that I think the most interesting story about the summit is that China has been invited. It's something that if you had a summit in in the US that would very be unlikely. And so maybe that that that's going to be quite a political feat to be able to navigate that and especially what we now increase tension around the supply chain and you know, everything to do with the trade war, and I think that's just only going to get more.

Geopolitical and difficult as we go forward.

Geopolitical and difficult as we go forward.

Yeah, for sure. You mentioned the guest list and long list of invitees from America. Are they all going to turn up? Is this going to be a success?

Yeah, for sure. You mentioned the guest list and long list of invitees from America. Are they all going to turn up? Is this going to be a success?

I think our reporting suggests we still have a lot of companies are saying that they're they're waiting on the plants.

I think our reporting suggests we still have a lot of companies are saying that they're they're waiting on the plants.

Just a week to go.

Just a week to go.

Yeah, And I think there's there's some I don't know if we're gonna expect to see, say, you know, the CEOs of Microsoft and Google and Meta, but we will certainly see probably I think the like Nick Klegg's and Brad Smith who runs policy, and there's confirmed there's the head of deep Mind and Google.

Yeah, And I think there's there's some I don't know if we're gonna expect to see, say, you know, the CEOs of Microsoft and Google and Meta, but we will certainly see probably I think the like Nick Klegg's and Brad Smith who runs policy, and there's confirmed there's the head of deep Mind and Google.

Sort of head of of AI policy.

Sort of head of of AI policy.

And so maybe not the bigger names that we're to you know, Elan has certainly one that everyone's kind of waiting to see, despite him not necessarily have an expertise in.

And so maybe not the bigger names that we're to you know, Elan has certainly one that everyone's kind of waiting to see, despite him not necessarily have an expertise in.

Yeah, I think of the seating plans being torn to keep.

Yeah, I think of the seating plans being torn to keep.

Right if anyone has.

Right if anyone has.

Organizing, Jack Report and Mark Berg, and thanks so much for joining us as we look ahead to the AI summit taking place next week.

Organizing, Jack Report and Mark Berg, and thanks so much for joining us as we look ahead to the AI summit taking place next week.

Well, Michael Goves Renter's reform Bill is back in the Commons for a second reading today. The flagship legislation by the Housing Secretary seeks to end no fault evictions and to strengthen tenants rights, but Suntory that ventures are unhappy at the restrictions on landlord's rights, warning the changes could see more of them leaving the market, further driving up rents. The debate on this bill was pushed back on several occasions, something our Caroline Hepka asked the Housing Minister Rachel McLean about at the Tory Party conference earlier this month.

Well, Michael Goves Renter's reform Bill is back in the Commons for a second reading today. The flagship legislation by the Housing Secretary seeks to end no fault evictions and to strengthen tenants rights, but Suntory that ventures are unhappy at the restrictions on landlord's rights, warning the changes could see more of them leaving the market, further driving up rents. The debate on this bill was pushed back on several occasions, something our Caroline Hepka asked the Housing Minister Rachel McLean about at the Tory Party conference earlier this month.

Well, I'm very proud of this legitization. It's already been introduced into Parliament. We've all stood on a manifesto commitment to abolish that section twenty one, which is what you're talking about. Yes, that's the no fault clause, which we know is a leading calls of homelessness. We will bring that bill forward are hopefully very very soon, because it's important that we deliver on that promise to young people.

Well, I'm very proud of this legitization. It's already been introduced into Parliament. We've all stood on a manifesto commitment to abolish that section twenty one, which is what you're talking about. Yes, that's the no fault clause, which we know is a leading calls of homelessness. We will bring that bill forward are hopefully very very soon, because it's important that we deliver on that promise to young people.

So that was the Housing Minister Rachel MacLean talking about the bill hopefully being brought forward. We now know that it is moving ahead with that debate continuing the second reading in Parliament today. Let's bring in our residential real estate reporter of Damien Shepherds for more about this story. So the Renders Reform Bill Damien is a whole package of reforms. What sort of the sort of big changes involved in US.

So that was the Housing Minister Rachel MacLean talking about the bill hopefully being brought forward. We now know that it is moving ahead with that debate continuing the second reading in Parliament today. Let's bring in our residential real estate reporter of Damien Shepherds for more about this story. So the Renders Reform Bill Damien is a whole package of reforms. What sort of the sort of big changes involved in US.

Yeah, So, I mean this is something that's been long campaigned for. I follow all of the renters groups on Twitter and there's a lot of excitement but nervousness about this finally making some progress. I think the headline thing in there is undoubtedly the potential abolishment of the section twenty one eviction. I mean, as things stand, a landlord can remove somebody from their property with no reason and give them simply two months notice to find somewhere else. If you just use right now as a case study. I mean, I live in London, I'm a renter. If I was to be given a two month notice to leave my property, I'd then be heading into the abyss of trying to find somewhere to live at a time where supply is squeezed to levels we've rarely seen before in the Capitol. So to remove this for renters would be a huge win for these groups have been campaigning for a very long time.

Yeah, So, I mean this is something that's been long campaigned for. I follow all of the renters groups on Twitter and there's a lot of excitement but nervousness about this finally making some progress. I think the headline thing in there is undoubtedly the potential abolishment of the section twenty one eviction. I mean, as things stand, a landlord can remove somebody from their property with no reason and give them simply two months notice to find somewhere else. If you just use right now as a case study. I mean, I live in London, I'm a renter. If I was to be given a two month notice to leave my property, I'd then be heading into the abyss of trying to find somewhere to live at a time where supply is squeezed to levels we've rarely seen before in the Capitol. So to remove this for renters would be a huge win for these groups have been campaigning for a very long time.

It's not just a section total reforms, though, is that there are There is other stuff wrapped up in this, isn't there?

It's not just a section total reforms, though, is that there are There is other stuff wrapped up in this, isn't there?

Yeah? Absolutely, I mean another one of the big things is the abolishment of fixed term tenancies. So the bill as it looks at the moment, would allow a tenant to come into a property and be able to leave essentially as they please.

Yeah? Absolutely, I mean another one of the big things is the abolishment of fixed term tenancies. So the bill as it looks at the moment, would allow a tenant to come into a property and be able to leave essentially as they please.

I mean.

I mean.

One of the big issues that the renters' groups speak about is you'll lock yourself into a one year contract, move into a flat and it won't really be up to the standard that it was advertised. There might be serious issues in the property, but you're tied into it. So that would kind of remove that concern that you'd be locked into paying these monthly bills for a year, you'd be able to leave as you please. But on the other side of that, among landlord groups, there's severe concern that their properties could be used as short term let people could kind of come and go and there'd be no sort of long term security for them in terms of income. So there's really big debates going on on both sides, which we're going to see more and more of as the months go on.

One of the big issues that the renters' groups speak about is you'll lock yourself into a one year contract, move into a flat and it won't really be up to the standard that it was advertised. There might be serious issues in the property, but you're tied into it. So that would kind of remove that concern that you'd be locked into paying these monthly bills for a year, you'd be able to leave as you please. But on the other side of that, among landlord groups, there's severe concern that their properties could be used as short term let people could kind of come and go and there'd be no sort of long term security for them in terms of income. So there's really big debates going on on both sides, which we're going to see more and more of as the months go on.

Yeah, it's certainly part of the pressure that exists in that sector because a lot of the issues because of rising interest meets risk interest rates mean that those bise let landlords are leaving the market, and if there are concerns about continuity over earnings, then that's going to perhaps put more of them under pressure as well. Among those landlords, though, are some Tory MPs, and it's fair to say this isn't terribly happy eternally popular for them. What's the kind of gist of their argument against some of these are forums.

Yeah, it's certainly part of the pressure that exists in that sector because a lot of the issues because of rising interest meets risk interest rates mean that those bise let landlords are leaving the market, and if there are concerns about continuity over earnings, then that's going to perhaps put more of them under pressure as well. Among those landlords, though, are some Tory MPs, and it's fair to say this isn't terribly happy eternally popular for them. What's the kind of gist of their argument against some of these are forums.

Yeah, so, I mean this is a big headache for the Tories right now. I mean, typically a lot of people who vote Tory our landlords themselves. So on the Section twenty one evictions, for example, naturally the court process will be leaned on a lot more. Now. Landlord groups will argue that that process is extremely slow. So there are talks that the government aren't going to proceed with the Section twenty one abolishment until there's something in place to speed up these court processes. And also, like I said, with the six month period of commitment that pro landlord groups are lobbying the government for to ensure that a tenant will have to say for six months rather than being able to leave after a month if the property isn't up to standard for example. But you know that is a real concern for them because people could use them as short term lets. But yeah, that's a real headache for both sides. There's going to be a lot of debate around this. It's a real fine line for the Tories.

Yeah, so, I mean this is a big headache for the Tories right now. I mean, typically a lot of people who vote Tory our landlords themselves. So on the Section twenty one evictions, for example, naturally the court process will be leaned on a lot more. Now. Landlord groups will argue that that process is extremely slow. So there are talks that the government aren't going to proceed with the Section twenty one abolishment until there's something in place to speed up these court processes. And also, like I said, with the six month period of commitment that pro landlord groups are lobbying the government for to ensure that a tenant will have to say for six months rather than being able to leave after a month if the property isn't up to standard for example. But you know that is a real concern for them because people could use them as short term lets. But yeah, that's a real headache for both sides. There's going to be a lot of debate around this. It's a real fine line for the Tories.

Yeah, has the government made many concessions to the potential rebels.

Yeah, has the government made many concessions to the potential rebels.

Well, I mean you'd have to ask those who are in Parliament. But we saw over the weekend the Times report that the Tories are considering stamp duty reductions and other tax cuts with top earners. So there's a real scramble right now between labor and the Conservatives to kind of win these points. On housing, and we saw earlier in the month at the Labor Party conference there was pledges to raise stamp duty for foreign buyers and use that to fix all of the problems in the planning system. So you're seeing these two parties locking horns at the moment on an issue that could potentially define the election.

Well, I mean you'd have to ask those who are in Parliament. But we saw over the weekend the Times report that the Tories are considering stamp duty reductions and other tax cuts with top earners. So there's a real scramble right now between labor and the Conservatives to kind of win these points. On housing, and we saw earlier in the month at the Labor Party conference there was pledges to raise stamp duty for foreign buyers and use that to fix all of the problems in the planning system. So you're seeing these two parties locking horns at the moment on an issue that could potentially define the election.

Damian talk us through the state of the market. You mentioned that you're a render. I'm a renter as well. I think most of the conversations that I have with people in London is about a fear of when their lease is going to be renewed because of how much the rent might go up by. What is the state of the market now in terms of the rising rents? Landlords leaving the market.

Damian talk us through the state of the market. You mentioned that you're a render. I'm a renter as well. I think most of the conversations that I have with people in London is about a fear of when their lease is going to be renewed because of how much the rent might go up by. What is the state of the market now in terms of the rising rents? Landlords leaving the market.

Yeah, so we're undoubtedly seeing that landlords are leaving the market. You know, we were talking earlier about high interest rates, and typically the mortgages that landlords on these interest rates feed right through to their payments as opposed to sort of your standard homeowner who's.

Yeah, so we're undoubtedly seeing that landlords are leaving the market. You know, we were talking earlier about high interest rates, and typically the mortgages that landlords on these interest rates feed right through to their payments as opposed to sort of your standard homeowner who's.

On a fixed rate.

On a fixed rate.

Now, landlords feel that pain, but the reality is renters feel it even harder because in order to recuperate those costs that they're losing through the higher rates, that goes down to renters, who will then be hit with a higher annual rent bill. And again, landlords will know that if they were to Section twenty one remove a tenant, for example, or not renew their contract at the end of a tendancy, it's highly likely that they're going to get more on the open market. Because people are so desperate to rent a property. This is causing a real mess. You know, we were saying we're both renters. I viewed a property in Wimbledon. It must have been four or five months ago. There was just one day of viewings and there were forty separate viewings in one day, and that said to me, this is really challenging, and you know, I'm going to have to take any rent rise I get because I don't want to head into this rental market and try and fight for a property. You know, you're hearing stories about people even writing a two hundred word bio to try and win over the landlord to let their property out to them. So yeah, there's a real mess. Rents of rocketing, supplies squeezed, and you know everyone's looking towards labor and the Conservatives to see how they're going to sort this out.

Now, landlords feel that pain, but the reality is renters feel it even harder because in order to recuperate those costs that they're losing through the higher rates, that goes down to renters, who will then be hit with a higher annual rent bill. And again, landlords will know that if they were to Section twenty one remove a tenant, for example, or not renew their contract at the end of a tendancy, it's highly likely that they're going to get more on the open market. Because people are so desperate to rent a property. This is causing a real mess. You know, we were saying we're both renters. I viewed a property in Wimbledon. It must have been four or five months ago. There was just one day of viewings and there were forty separate viewings in one day, and that said to me, this is really challenging, and you know, I'm going to have to take any rent rise I get because I don't want to head into this rental market and try and fight for a property. You know, you're hearing stories about people even writing a two hundred word bio to try and win over the landlord to let their property out to them. So yeah, there's a real mess. Rents of rocketing, supplies squeezed, and you know everyone's looking towards labor and the Conservatives to see how they're going to sort this out.

This is getting into the territory of people writing letters to people selling houses telling them how much they'd love to live there with something I thought only existed in American films, but apparently as a real thing that people make hard failed appeals to be able to with buy houses. Apparently that now moving into the rental market as well.

This is getting into the territory of people writing letters to people selling houses telling them how much they'd love to live there with something I thought only existed in American films, but apparently as a real thing that people make hard failed appeals to be able to with buy houses. Apparently that now moving into the rental market as well.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, like you said, there's some strange things happening, and it's desperation.

You know, like you said, there's some strange things happening, and it's desperation.

I was asking you about that spike in rents that you mentioned over the past year. Are those increases starting to moderate now, because we've seen really big increases on me, particularly in London.

I was asking you about that spike in rents that you mentioned over the past year. Are those increases starting to moderate now, because we've seen really big increases on me, particularly in London.

Yeah, so they're undoubtedly still growing, but the rate of the growth is starting to slow. So that's kind of a bit of reassurance that we might have reached the peak of these massive hikes in rent So, you know, that's a glimmer of hope for renters that their bills may eventually start to come down slightly, and it gives landlords a little more room to maneuver on hiking rents at the end of a cycle of contract. So yeah, that's a slight reassurance. But you know, don't get me wrong, rents are incredibly high.

Yeah, so they're undoubtedly still growing, but the rate of the growth is starting to slow. So that's kind of a bit of reassurance that we might have reached the peak of these massive hikes in rent So, you know, that's a glimmer of hope for renters that their bills may eventually start to come down slightly, and it gives landlords a little more room to maneuver on hiking rents at the end of a cycle of contract. So yeah, that's a slight reassurance. But you know, don't get me wrong, rents are incredibly high.

This is lining up to be a major issue in the next election as well. You mentioned there are some of the reports that we saw over the weekend about a potential cut to stamp duty. How much what do you make so far of the policy promises or hints that we've seen from the parties in terms of what they're going to do around house building?

This is lining up to be a major issue in the next election as well. You mentioned there are some of the reports that we saw over the weekend about a potential cut to stamp duty. How much what do you make so far of the policy promises or hints that we've seen from the parties in terms of what they're going to do around house building?

Do you think it is going to be that central issue in the election.

Do you think it is going to be that central issue in the election.

Yeah, it looks that way. I think, particularly with the Labor Conference, there was you know, committing to one point five million homes over the course of the next parliament if they win. I think what was interesting about that is they didn't commit to an annual target. They have given themselves a little bit of wiggle room over a five year term if they win, you know, to answer the questions about where these houses are. But it comes down to the root of the issue, which I've spoken about many times before on here, about the lack of housing in the UK and until supplies increased, house prices are going to remain high. Also in the rental market, until more rental homes are built, rent prices are going to remain high. So I think with the Labor promises around fixing the planning system, building these new towns and promoting home building. It's very much more long term goals than the short term pain right now that we're seeing. So it's you know, whether voters are going to take that long term view, particularly the young ones who are hoping one day to own their property and not be stuck in the rental market.

Yeah, it looks that way. I think, particularly with the Labor Conference, there was you know, committing to one point five million homes over the course of the next parliament if they win. I think what was interesting about that is they didn't commit to an annual target. They have given themselves a little bit of wiggle room over a five year term if they win, you know, to answer the questions about where these houses are. But it comes down to the root of the issue, which I've spoken about many times before on here, about the lack of housing in the UK and until supplies increased, house prices are going to remain high. Also in the rental market, until more rental homes are built, rent prices are going to remain high. So I think with the Labor promises around fixing the planning system, building these new towns and promoting home building. It's very much more long term goals than the short term pain right now that we're seeing. So it's you know, whether voters are going to take that long term view, particularly the young ones who are hoping one day to own their property and not be stuck in the rental market.

And a quick one on the stamp duty cuts to talk of that in one of the newspaper reports this weekend.

And a quick one on the stamp duty cuts to talk of that in one of the newspaper reports this weekend.

Yeah, I mean that's what's really interesting. I think the way that we're seeing the Tories and Labor potentially going different ways. We see in the Times this weekend about the Tories considering reductions to stamp duty, and then you look over to the other side and you see Labor saying we're going to hike it for foreign buyers and prioritize first time buyers, you know, in a big tower of new apartments. They want it to be domestic buyers, not those overseas home buyers. So yeah, I think comparing how the two parties are looking at housing is going to be really fascinating as we move towards these crucial stages of the lead up to the election.

Yeah, I mean that's what's really interesting. I think the way that we're seeing the Tories and Labor potentially going different ways. We see in the Times this weekend about the Tories considering reductions to stamp duty, and then you look over to the other side and you see Labor saying we're going to hike it for foreign buyers and prioritize first time buyers, you know, in a big tower of new apartments. They want it to be domestic buyers, not those overseas home buyers. So yeah, I think comparing how the two parties are looking at housing is going to be really fascinating as we move towards these crucial stages of the lead up to the election.

Okay, Damian Sheppard, Oursenter real Estate reporter, thanks so much for joining us with the latest on that story.

Okay, Damian Sheppard, Oursenter real Estate reporter, thanks so much for joining us with the latest on that story.

You and I know that you love.

You and I know that you love.

Talking about the housing market, and I feel like we're going to be leaning into that quite a lot over the next so it certainly sounds like where the politicians are directing us anyway.

Talking about the housing market, and I feel like we're going to be leaning into that quite a lot over the next so it certainly sounds like where the politicians are directing us anyway.

Yeah, it's only going to be a big issue in the next election. I don't think it's in the top five big issues, but it does normally come just outside that and there are very strong views, I think, on on both sides from younger voters and older voters. So yeah, gonna be fascinating as we approach the election, and.

Yeah, it's only going to be a big issue in the next election. I don't think it's in the top five big issues, but it does normally come just outside that and there are very strong views, I think, on on both sides from younger voters and older voters. So yeah, gonna be fascinating as we approach the election, and.

We'll be watching out for what that second reading of the Renter's Reform Bill throws up in terms of those potential divisions among the Tory Party as well as we look to see how labor it is to position themselves around these changes as well. Well, that's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe and give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

We'll be watching out for what that second reading of the Renter's Reform Bill throws up in terms of those potential divisions among the Tory Party as well as we look to see how labor it is to position themselves around these changes as well. Well, that's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe and give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

This episode was produced by James Walcock and Audio engineer was Maurie F. L Hussein.

This episode was produced by James Walcock and Audio engineer was Maurie F. L Hussein.

I'm you and Potts and I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back with more tomorrow. This is Bloomberg.

I'm you and Potts and I'm Stephen Carroll. We'll be back with more tomorrow. This is Bloomberg.

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Bloomberg UK Politics.

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