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Getting a bit fed up of saying this to them, But they really do not need to listen and make real changes and end the London centric Labor party that I have been in all my life.

Getting a bit fed up of saying this to them, But they really do not need to listen and make real changes and end the London centric Labor party that I have been in all my life.

That's the Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham with some choice words for the Labor leadership back in twenty twenty one, three years later. How does he feel now.

That's the Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham with some choice words for the Labor leadership back in twenty twenty one, three years later. How does he feel now.

Hello, you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Caroline Hepka and.

Hello, you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Caroline Hepka and.

I'm Stephen Carroll, who has been dubbed the King of the North by the media. Andy Burnham recently reclaiming that crown by coming in the fastest of the northern mayors who round the Great North Run, most recently just last weekend. But this is an interesting time to be a labor mayor of a big metropolitan area. He's had plenty of words in opposition to the government in Westminster when it was run by the Tories, but now he's got Labor in charge.

I'm Stephen Carroll, who has been dubbed the King of the North by the media. Andy Burnham recently reclaiming that crown by coming in the fastest of the northern mayors who round the Great North Run, most recently just last weekend. But this is an interesting time to be a labor mayor of a big metropolitan area. He's had plenty of words in opposition to the government in Westminster when it was run by the Tories, but now he's got Labor in charge.

Yeah, and those twelve regional mayors. Of course we're invited to none ten after the landslide win by Kirs Starmer, Rachel Reeves and the team, and so they have been put really at the heart of government. The talk is of a kind of better relationship and more benefits from devolution. So it'll be interesting now though, when the more contentious issues arise, ones that will affect these leaders in their various constituencies, and of course.

Yeah, and those twelve regional mayors. Of course we're invited to none ten after the landslide win by Kirs Starmer, Rachel Reeves and the team, and so they have been put really at the heart of government. The talk is of a kind of better relationship and more benefits from devolution. So it'll be interesting now though, when the more contentious issues arise, ones that will affect these leaders in their various constituencies, and of course.

He saw one of those is just play out in Parliament last night. So the vote did pass to implement the cuts to the winter fuel allowance, but dozens of Labor MPs abstained from the motion, one voted against. This could be setting up for an interesting set of discussions with those group of regional mayors around the country as we look ahead to the budget at the end of October as well well.

He saw one of those is just play out in Parliament last night. So the vote did pass to implement the cuts to the winter fuel allowance, but dozens of Labor MPs abstained from the motion, one voted against. This could be setting up for an interesting set of discussions with those group of regional mayors around the country as we look ahead to the budget at the end of October as well well.

Joining us now is one of the most high profile politicians in that group of regional mayors, the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, also of course a critic of the changes to the winter fuel pay. Just want to start by thinking about this new Labor government. It is still fairly new two months since Kissed Darmo and Rachel Reeves entered Downing Street. Already we've had some very big challenges thinking the summer riots, the public sector pay deals, early prisoner releases. So firstly I'd be interested in how you rate so far kissed Arma's performance.

Joining us now is one of the most high profile politicians in that group of regional mayors, the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, also of course a critic of the changes to the winter fuel pay. Just want to start by thinking about this new Labor government. It is still fairly new two months since Kissed Darmo and Rachel Reeves entered Downing Street. Already we've had some very big challenges thinking the summer riots, the public sector pay deals, early prisoner releases. So firstly I'd be interested in how you rate so far kissed Arma's performance.

I can't remember a more difficult inheritance for any government in my lifetime. The country has felt pretty broken in recent years, so given that, I think, you know, what they've achieved so far is very impressive. They are managing to get into the heart of some of these really challenging things that they face, as well as bringing forward big, big reforms, particularly on the railways, which are well over due. So in the circumstances that they're facing, I think they've made a really impressive start and obviously had to deal with all of the challenges we saw with the riots in the summer, so a tough inheritance. I always predicted there would be no honeymoon and there hasn't been. But they've kind of got stuck straight into the business of government and I think from day one Keir Starmer has looked like a Prime minister.

I can't remember a more difficult inheritance for any government in my lifetime. The country has felt pretty broken in recent years, so given that, I think, you know, what they've achieved so far is very impressive. They are managing to get into the heart of some of these really challenging things that they face, as well as bringing forward big, big reforms, particularly on the railways, which are well over due. So in the circumstances that they're facing, I think they've made a really impressive start and obviously had to deal with all of the challenges we saw with the riots in the summer, so a tough inheritance. I always predicted there would be no honeymoon and there hasn't been. But they've kind of got stuck straight into the business of government and I think from day one Keir Starmer has looked like a Prime minister.

One of the first challenges, though, that we saw was last night dozens of labor MPs deciding to abstain from a vote over cuts to the winter fuel allowance. You must be disappointed by the government's decision to means test that for millions of pensioners.

One of the first challenges, though, that we saw was last night dozens of labor MPs deciding to abstain from a vote over cuts to the winter fuel allowance. You must be disappointed by the government's decision to means test that for millions of pensioners.

I think there is a case for reform of the winter fuel allowance because it certainly was put to me when I was in the Treasury, and that was over ten years ago. In that, you know, why do we give a universal benefit people who are let's say pretty wealthy also also get the benefit from So there's the kind of case for some reform to it has been there. What I have said though, on the record is that the threshold by which people can still claim it, pensions can still claim it, is I would say, is too low. That's the pension threshold credit in terms of the you know, the amount of money people have and the savings that people have, and what we also find here in Greater Manchester is there's a reluctance amongst pensioners to actually claim it, and despite many take up campaigns over the years, we just haven't been able to move that number up to where we would want it to be. So the point I made yesterday is while I can see the case for reform, I think the threshold is too low, and I think there's also perhaps a case for a taper or some other way of reforming winter fuel allowance. And you know, all governments. I think, should you know, keep those keep those matters under review.

I think there is a case for reform of the winter fuel allowance because it certainly was put to me when I was in the Treasury, and that was over ten years ago. In that, you know, why do we give a universal benefit people who are let's say pretty wealthy also also get the benefit from So there's the kind of case for some reform to it has been there. What I have said though, on the record is that the threshold by which people can still claim it, pensions can still claim it, is I would say, is too low. That's the pension threshold credit in terms of the you know, the amount of money people have and the savings that people have, and what we also find here in Greater Manchester is there's a reluctance amongst pensioners to actually claim it, and despite many take up campaigns over the years, we just haven't been able to move that number up to where we would want it to be. So the point I made yesterday is while I can see the case for reform, I think the threshold is too low, and I think there's also perhaps a case for a taper or some other way of reforming winter fuel allowance. And you know, all governments. I think, should you know, keep those keep those matters under review.

Yeah, that doesn't look like that's what's going to happen. Hence, all of those MP's who abstain, do you support them for abstaining? I mean, you made those comments around what you wanted to see from the winter fuel allowance, you made them publicly, and you know, I wonder whether you support those MP's who had those concerns around the government's moves.

Yeah, that doesn't look like that's what's going to happen. Hence, all of those MP's who abstain, do you support them for abstaining? I mean, you made those comments around what you wanted to see from the winter fuel allowance, you made them publicly, and you know, I wonder whether you support those MP's who had those concerns around the government's moves.

I guess what I would say is I sympathize with them and also with MPs who who in the NFL they should be, you know, following what the government was asking for. Indeed, I guess I could say I sympothize with everybody in this situation, including ministers, because the inheritance that they've got to deal with is, as I say, it's probably the worst one ever, and you know that there aren't going to be many easy decisions around and they're going to have to do more of more of This parliamentary whip system creates this quite binary situation where you know, people with concerns and as people will have concerns, you know, either have to sort of make that sort of binary choice of whether they vote for or abstain or vote against. I've called for the reform of the parliamentary whip system because I think it it kind of in some ways doesn't help are considered you must.

I guess what I would say is I sympathize with them and also with MPs who who in the NFL they should be, you know, following what the government was asking for. Indeed, I guess I could say I sympothize with everybody in this situation, including ministers, because the inheritance that they've got to deal with is, as I say, it's probably the worst one ever, and you know that there aren't going to be many easy decisions around and they're going to have to do more of more of This parliamentary whip system creates this quite binary situation where you know, people with concerns and as people will have concerns, you know, either have to sort of make that sort of binary choice of whether they vote for or abstain or vote against. I've called for the reform of the parliamentary whip system because I think it it kind of in some ways doesn't help are considered you must.

Be frustrated that in one of these early important decisions by the government, that the government has decided to stick to what is considered quite a harsh line. It's going to affect more than eleven million pensioners, and people within the party have been calling on, you know, some moderation or some recalibration of how many people it's going to affect. I mean, it's an early test for full kised arma for the Labor Party in government. Are you concerned, Well, it.

Be frustrated that in one of these early important decisions by the government, that the government has decided to stick to what is considered quite a harsh line. It's going to affect more than eleven million pensioners, and people within the party have been calling on, you know, some moderation or some recalibration of how many people it's going to affect. I mean, it's an early test for full kised arma for the Labor Party in government. Are you concerned, Well, it.

Certainly is an early test that they've got to get a grip on the finances, and you know they would say they're rising to that test. I've put on the table of my concern because I've said that, you know, our experience here in Greater Manchester is that you know, relying on pension credit potential will mean that we won't get the help to the pensioners that we want to help, and the government wants to help because the government is saying it wants to increase the take up of pension credit so that more people can get the winter fuel allowance this winter. But our experiences that won't happen because there is just this difficulty in those take up campaigns. So what I would say, and this learns from my time in the in the Brown and the Blair governments, you know, you've just got to be a kind of listening government and you know, kind of hear what's being said. There's an opportunity coming up with the budget. I would encourage them to consider that opportunity to see if there are some mitigations that can be put in place to ensure the pensioners who do need that funding, who perhaps aren't going to go down the pension credit route, do still get help this winter.

Certainly is an early test that they've got to get a grip on the finances, and you know they would say they're rising to that test. I've put on the table of my concern because I've said that, you know, our experience here in Greater Manchester is that you know, relying on pension credit potential will mean that we won't get the help to the pensioners that we want to help, and the government wants to help because the government is saying it wants to increase the take up of pension credit so that more people can get the winter fuel allowance this winter. But our experiences that won't happen because there is just this difficulty in those take up campaigns. So what I would say, and this learns from my time in the in the Brown and the Blair governments, you know, you've just got to be a kind of listening government and you know, kind of hear what's being said. There's an opportunity coming up with the budget. I would encourage them to consider that opportunity to see if there are some mitigations that can be put in place to ensure the pensioners who do need that funding, who perhaps aren't going to go down the pension credit route, do still get help this winter.

We've been warned of the painful decisions to come and that budget. I wonder how concerned are you about decisions perhaps spend in cuts or tax rises that are going to affect people in Manchester.

We've been warned of the painful decisions to come and that budget. I wonder how concerned are you about decisions perhaps spend in cuts or tax rises that are going to affect people in Manchester.

Well, it is a very difficult inheritance. I keep making that point, but it's it's true. But I also see opportunities because you know, if we are to help the government become a government that is bringing growth to all parts of the country. I think there's plenty for the government to take from Greater Manchester. We've been growing faster than the UK economy in recent years and we're predicted to continue to do so. And I would encourage the government in making these tough spending decisions as they no doubt have to do, just you know, being clear about what are the things that bring the growth that they that they need and so you know, in making those tough choices, being clear about prioritizing the sort of pro growth investments, particularly public transport where we have a huge reform program underway with the creation of the B Network. You know that has been at the foundation of our success as in building a growing city region. So you know, these are tough judgments coming, no doubt about it, but you know we we will help the government through. And just one final point to make on this, we are moving to a new funding arrangement with the government at the at the next budget where Greater Mansion will become the first place in the country to have what we call an integrated settlement, so be more like Scotland and Wales where there's a sort of you know, more of a block approach to funding. I'm saying to the government, the more that you root through that integrated settlement, the stronger your ability to get more value for public money. Because when you kind of give money to an organization like the one I lead, we can join the dots between you know, housing and skills and work and transport and you actually make that public money go further. So you know, in difficult circumstances, devolution is providing an answer. And I'm encouraging the new Chancellor. We've submitted our spending plans to her yesterday. The big theme of our spending proposals is the more you rout through that integrated settlement at a devolved level, the more we will be able to break down the white hole silos and get much more value for public money.

Well, it is a very difficult inheritance. I keep making that point, but it's it's true. But I also see opportunities because you know, if we are to help the government become a government that is bringing growth to all parts of the country. I think there's plenty for the government to take from Greater Manchester. We've been growing faster than the UK economy in recent years and we're predicted to continue to do so. And I would encourage the government in making these tough spending decisions as they no doubt have to do, just you know, being clear about what are the things that bring the growth that they that they need and so you know, in making those tough choices, being clear about prioritizing the sort of pro growth investments, particularly public transport where we have a huge reform program underway with the creation of the B Network. You know that has been at the foundation of our success as in building a growing city region. So you know, these are tough judgments coming, no doubt about it, but you know we we will help the government through. And just one final point to make on this, we are moving to a new funding arrangement with the government at the at the next budget where Greater Mansion will become the first place in the country to have what we call an integrated settlement, so be more like Scotland and Wales where there's a sort of you know, more of a block approach to funding. I'm saying to the government, the more that you root through that integrated settlement, the stronger your ability to get more value for public money. Because when you kind of give money to an organization like the one I lead, we can join the dots between you know, housing and skills and work and transport and you actually make that public money go further. So you know, in difficult circumstances, devolution is providing an answer. And I'm encouraging the new Chancellor. We've submitted our spending plans to her yesterday. The big theme of our spending proposals is the more you rout through that integrated settlement at a devolved level, the more we will be able to break down the white hole silos and get much more value for public money.

Yeah, which is a big sort of commitment, isn't it on the part of Greater Manchester that kind of equation that you're laying out. Look, the government and the Labor Government made this quite a big show of inviting all the twelve regional mayors including you, to number ten, and Starmer promised these regular meetings. You talk there a little bit earlier about a listening government. This has to be a listening government. The promise of regular meetings. How has that gone forwards? How often is regular? What is the frequency and the format? I mean, you made the public comments around the winter, fuel allows them and the government shows a different direction. What is the format now for this dialogue between the regional mayors.

Yeah, which is a big sort of commitment, isn't it on the part of Greater Manchester that kind of equation that you're laying out. Look, the government and the Labor Government made this quite a big show of inviting all the twelve regional mayors including you, to number ten, and Starmer promised these regular meetings. You talk there a little bit earlier about a listening government. This has to be a listening government. The promise of regular meetings. How has that gone forwards? How often is regular? What is the frequency and the format? I mean, you made the public comments around the winter, fuel allows them and the government shows a different direction. What is the format now for this dialogue between the regional mayors.

Dialogue is excellent. So I'll be welcoming Georgia Gould to Greater Manster later today. Who's the Minister for Public service reform? And that goes back to exactly what I was talking about a moment ago, about how we do change the way public funding and public services work to get much more value for money. You know. So, for instance, we're bidding to have the employment support, but it come through us rather than be spent via large corporate entities who often don't help people back into work. We believe if we put that money through our local community and voluntary organizations in a reformed model, We've got the evidence to say that will help us get more money, more people back to work, and save more public money. I've been in discussions this morning with the Secretary of State for Transport, so the engagement is great. To be honest and in difficult circumstances, it has to be doesn't it. You know, you've got to sort of work through these issues together. They are difficult, but as I said before, devolution is increasingly provided a solution and this government inherits a different landscape to any before it where you know, if you take the North of England, almost ninety percent of the North of England now is covered by an entity with a devolution settlement and that gives them an opportunity to address these issues in a different way.

Dialogue is excellent. So I'll be welcoming Georgia Gould to Greater Manster later today. Who's the Minister for Public service reform? And that goes back to exactly what I was talking about a moment ago, about how we do change the way public funding and public services work to get much more value for money. You know. So, for instance, we're bidding to have the employment support, but it come through us rather than be spent via large corporate entities who often don't help people back into work. We believe if we put that money through our local community and voluntary organizations in a reformed model, We've got the evidence to say that will help us get more money, more people back to work, and save more public money. I've been in discussions this morning with the Secretary of State for Transport, so the engagement is great. To be honest and in difficult circumstances, it has to be doesn't it. You know, you've got to sort of work through these issues together. They are difficult, but as I said before, devolution is increasingly provided a solution and this government inherits a different landscape to any before it where you know, if you take the North of England, almost ninety percent of the North of England now is covered by an entity with a devolution settlement and that gives them an opportunity to address these issues in a different way.

How much do you want in that budget? I mean, Scotland's background is abound forty one billion a year? Do you want that much?

How much do you want in that budget? I mean, Scotland's background is abound forty one billion a year? Do you want that much?

If only sleevehn, you know, that would be tremendous what I could what I could do with that. But no, obviously we're not in that position. But you know we're not massively different in that we have three million people in Greater Manchester. But obviously, you know, Scotland's in a very different situation with its geography et cetera. You know, we're currently getting around one and a half billion pounds through devolved funding streams from Whitehall, but they're kind of administered by every different white Hole department and what we get going to wards here is a consolidated settlement, So I would expect it will land somewhere between one and a half and two billion pounds to begin with. But the hope is that that will build up over the years and we'll be able to get more for that money. So let me just give you one really tangible example. Currently the railways. We want to bring eight rail lines into our B network and currently they're funded via Whitehall one hundred million pounds of subsidy to the operator. But when people use those lines, they don't get the benefit of using the bus and the tram after because they're not integrated with our B network. So when those lines, when that money comes through us and that those lines come into the B network, you know you get more passengers using them because they'll have be able to come to manage a big of delly and then get on a bus for free or a tramodever, because we're going to have an integrated system soon like London. And that's an example how public money goes further when you're spending it in a more integrated way. And that's that's the article we're making in spending settlement. And the other logic is the more you rout through this this approach devolved single pot approach, the more value you will achieve a public expenditure.

If only sleevehn, you know, that would be tremendous what I could what I could do with that. But no, obviously we're not in that position. But you know we're not massively different in that we have three million people in Greater Manchester. But obviously, you know, Scotland's in a very different situation with its geography et cetera. You know, we're currently getting around one and a half billion pounds through devolved funding streams from Whitehall, but they're kind of administered by every different white Hole department and what we get going to wards here is a consolidated settlement, So I would expect it will land somewhere between one and a half and two billion pounds to begin with. But the hope is that that will build up over the years and we'll be able to get more for that money. So let me just give you one really tangible example. Currently the railways. We want to bring eight rail lines into our B network and currently they're funded via Whitehall one hundred million pounds of subsidy to the operator. But when people use those lines, they don't get the benefit of using the bus and the tram after because they're not integrated with our B network. So when those lines, when that money comes through us and that those lines come into the B network, you know you get more passengers using them because they'll have be able to come to manage a big of delly and then get on a bus for free or a tramodever, because we're going to have an integrated system soon like London. And that's an example how public money goes further when you're spending it in a more integrated way. And that's that's the article we're making in spending settlement. And the other logic is the more you rout through this this approach devolved single pot approach, the more value you will achieve a public expenditure.

That's on transport and the rail network. But actually the bigger plans from the Labor Government are on home building targets. They would place a lot of emphasis on local authorities to plan for new mandatory house building targets. I mean local government does not have the resources to match that. Do you need more relaxed rules around fiscal boring if you're making the case that greater Manchester can deliver bang for buck if Westminster hands over some dosh, do you also need more relaxed rules around borrowing so that you can make that big building pledge come true.

That's on transport and the rail network. But actually the bigger plans from the Labor Government are on home building targets. They would place a lot of emphasis on local authorities to plan for new mandatory house building targets. I mean local government does not have the resources to match that. Do you need more relaxed rules around fiscal boring if you're making the case that greater Manchester can deliver bang for buck if Westminster hands over some dosh, do you also need more relaxed rules around borrowing so that you can make that big building pledge come true.

You make a really good point. I think investing in all forms of housing, including social housing and council housing, is the smartest investment that the UK could make right now. I've called, following the Grenfell Inquiry, for the UK to undergo something of a c change in the way that it thinks about housing. Follow the Finish lead and go towards a housing first philosophy where you guarantee everybody, or you work towards a guarantee that everybody has a good, secure home. Because if you if you go down that path. The evidence is clear from Finland that you can save so much money in terms of prices, spending in the health service, in other public services because of the lack of that foundation of a good home behind people. You know, people can't have a good life for you can't have good health, you can't hold down a job without a good a good home. Housing first actually is the way to sustainable public finances in the long run. So yes, I do want that freedom that you're you're calling around borrowing. I want, you know, much greater freedom. I'm ready. I've made a big offer to the government that great Manaster will build seventy five thousand of the one point five million that the government is committed to in this parliament new homes. You. We will go further and we will do the seventy five thousand. But I would have plead with them to say, let's do that on the housing first principle, where you recognize that the market alone doesn't solve the country's housing problems. You have to build homes of all types in all places. But in giving everybody a good home, you're setting people up for success in life, and therefore you're creating the conditions where you can reduce crisis spending in particularly the health service, but other public services as well down the line. So this is a big argument that I'm putting forward. We do need a sea change in the way we think about housing in this country, and if you look at Finland and what they've achieved, the evidence is all there.

You make a really good point. I think investing in all forms of housing, including social housing and council housing, is the smartest investment that the UK could make right now. I've called, following the Grenfell Inquiry, for the UK to undergo something of a c change in the way that it thinks about housing. Follow the Finish lead and go towards a housing first philosophy where you guarantee everybody, or you work towards a guarantee that everybody has a good, secure home. Because if you if you go down that path. The evidence is clear from Finland that you can save so much money in terms of prices, spending in the health service, in other public services because of the lack of that foundation of a good home behind people. You know, people can't have a good life for you can't have good health, you can't hold down a job without a good a good home. Housing first actually is the way to sustainable public finances in the long run. So yes, I do want that freedom that you're you're calling around borrowing. I want, you know, much greater freedom. I'm ready. I've made a big offer to the government that great Manaster will build seventy five thousand of the one point five million that the government is committed to in this parliament new homes. You. We will go further and we will do the seventy five thousand. But I would have plead with them to say, let's do that on the housing first principle, where you recognize that the market alone doesn't solve the country's housing problems. You have to build homes of all types in all places. But in giving everybody a good home, you're setting people up for success in life, and therefore you're creating the conditions where you can reduce crisis spending in particularly the health service, but other public services as well down the line. So this is a big argument that I'm putting forward. We do need a sea change in the way we think about housing in this country, and if you look at Finland and what they've achieved, the evidence is all there.

Yeah, I'll just make one point as a rebuttal that Finland obviously is a much smaller economy versus the UK, something like forty third forty fifth in the world versus the UK. But I think it's a very interesting point, you mate.

Yeah, I'll just make one point as a rebuttal that Finland obviously is a much smaller economy versus the UK, something like forty third forty fifth in the world versus the UK. But I think it's a very interesting point, you mate.

I don't think it's a rebuttal though. I think it's a fair point, but I don't think it kind of undermines the argument that I'm making because you know, Finland had a huge problem with homelessness in the early eighties and they are the only country I think in the developed world that has significantly reduced homelessness and in doing what it's done in terms of investing in housing, has reduced public exp spenditure on other services. So you know, you're right, it is only five million, but I think the model, the model still holds even in a country of sixty million or more. Housing is the most fundamental thing that people need. And if you've got the foundation of a good home, the chances are you'll be able then to hold down a job. You'll have better health, your kids will get a better education. I think the UK the US has been thinking and the wrong way about housing for many years. You know, you see the crisis on the streets here, but also in the US as well. The homelessness crisis leads to chaotic public spending, crisis spending and actually spending that doesn't achieve the right results for people. The point in somebody you know receiving expensive treatment in a hospital only to go home to a house full of damp and mold, it doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's a rebuttal though. I think it's a fair point, but I don't think it kind of undermines the argument that I'm making because you know, Finland had a huge problem with homelessness in the early eighties and they are the only country I think in the developed world that has significantly reduced homelessness and in doing what it's done in terms of investing in housing, has reduced public exp spenditure on other services. So you know, you're right, it is only five million, but I think the model, the model still holds even in a country of sixty million or more. Housing is the most fundamental thing that people need. And if you've got the foundation of a good home, the chances are you'll be able then to hold down a job. You'll have better health, your kids will get a better education. I think the UK the US has been thinking and the wrong way about housing for many years. You know, you see the crisis on the streets here, but also in the US as well. The homelessness crisis leads to chaotic public spending, crisis spending and actually spending that doesn't achieve the right results for people. The point in somebody you know receiving expensive treatment in a hospital only to go home to a house full of damp and mold, it doesn't make sense.

Andy Burnham, Mayor of Greater Manchester, thank you very much for joining us. That's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe and give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen now.

Andy Burnham, Mayor of Greater Manchester, thank you very much for joining us. That's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe and give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen now.

This episode was produced by tia Adebayo, our audio engineer, with Seawan Westermakia.

This episode was produced by tia Adebayo, our audio engineer, with Seawan Westermakia.

I'm Caroline Hekki and I'm Stephen. Carol will be back with more tomorrow This is bring Berg Bloomberg UK Politics. Listen weekdays at noon on DAB digital radio in London.

I'm Caroline Hekki and I'm Stephen. Carol will be back with more tomorrow This is bring Berg Bloomberg UK Politics. Listen weekdays at noon on DAB digital radio in London.