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I want to tear down the barriers to opportunity for people right across the country, including young people, because with two point eight million people out of the workforce due to long term sickness, that's bad for them and their living standards, is bad for employers who are desperate to recruit, and it's bad for the economy as a whole. In order to get Britten growing again, we've got to get Britain working again, and that means a big new change to employment support.

I want to tear down the barriers to opportunity for people right across the country, including young people, because with two point eight million people out of the workforce due to long term sickness, that's bad for them and their living standards, is bad for employers who are desperate to recruit, and it's bad for the economy as a whole. In order to get Britten growing again, we've got to get Britain working again, and that means a big new change to employment support.

That was Liz Kendall, the Work and Pensions Secretary, with the pitch. The government wants to get people back into work, but at what costs. Hello, you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Caroline Hepke and I'm.

That was Liz Kendall, the Work and Pensions Secretary, with the pitch. The government wants to get people back into work, but at what costs. Hello, you're listening to Bloomberg UK Politics. I'm Caroline Hepke and I'm.

Lizie Berda and welcome to the program. So, Caroline, Labour wants to increase the employment rate. They're aiming to get it up to eighty percent from just shy of seventy five percent right now. But the way they're planning to do it is giving me a bit of daja voo. You know, This get Britain working white paper promises to help lower the country's benefits bill one hundred and thirty seven billion pounds is where it stands at the moment, and that was louse Kendall, the work of Pension Secretary. Measures to be announced by her include the removal of welfare payments from people who refuse education or training. Sounds a little get on your bike to me, but Keirstarmer's government could face a bit of a backlash for this from its own MPs. On ideological grounds, you could say the crackdown on benefits is, as I say, reminiscent of the austerity policies that Labor had spent so much of its time in opposition.

Lizie Berda and welcome to the program. So, Caroline, Labour wants to increase the employment rate. They're aiming to get it up to eighty percent from just shy of seventy five percent right now. But the way they're planning to do it is giving me a bit of daja voo. You know, This get Britain working white paper promises to help lower the country's benefits bill one hundred and thirty seven billion pounds is where it stands at the moment, and that was louse Kendall, the work of Pension Secretary. Measures to be announced by her include the removal of welfare payments from people who refuse education or training. Sounds a little get on your bike to me, but Keirstarmer's government could face a bit of a backlash for this from its own MPs. On ideological grounds, you could say the crackdown on benefits is, as I say, reminiscent of the austerity policies that Labor had spent so much of its time in opposition.

Regaling well aside from their own MPs, and also the rather strange appearance of the word worklessness, which I think is a bit old fashioned in some ways. The government's also likely to face some push back shortly from businesses over job creation because the emphasis is on them to deliver some of the especially after the government hyked taxes for employers in the autumn budget. And yesterday the CBI Conference, the Big Business lobby annual event, they had a survey out that really was employers showing their annoyance and frustration around the budget. Are the two aims then that labor has incongruent. Looking at the numbers, you've got seven hundred thousand more working age adults who are economically inactive now than before the pandemic.

Regaling well aside from their own MPs, and also the rather strange appearance of the word worklessness, which I think is a bit old fashioned in some ways. The government's also likely to face some push back shortly from businesses over job creation because the emphasis is on them to deliver some of the especially after the government hyked taxes for employers in the autumn budget. And yesterday the CBI Conference, the Big Business lobby annual event, they had a survey out that really was employers showing their annoyance and frustration around the budget. Are the two aims then that labor has incongruent. Looking at the numbers, you've got seven hundred thousand more working age adults who are economically inactive now than before the pandemic.

Yeah, let's discuss now with Blomberg's Aalva Rayn dig into the politics of it all. Alba, you've been writing about this problem now for Labor book before for the Tories. As Caroline says, it's something that's been ongoing since the pandemic. I wonder what this get Britain. Working white paper says about the government's diagnosis of the economic inactivity problem.

Yeah, let's discuss now with Blomberg's Aalva Rayn dig into the politics of it all. Alba, you've been writing about this problem now for Labor book before for the Tories. As Caroline says, it's something that's been ongoing since the pandemic. I wonder what this get Britain. Working white paper says about the government's diagnosis of the economic inactivity problem.

As you say, yeah, this is a white paper, which means that it's sort of in government language. That's when the government releases a report that details, you know, in quite extensive detail, what the problem is and sets out the government's policy to solve it. At time of recording, it hasn't been published yet. It comes out in about in our time when Liz Kennell gets up to speak. We've had a very detailed press release and you know, background conversations. But I think you know, it is completely possible that there's some detail in it when it's published in an R two that we haven't seen yet, but we kind of already know that the problem, like the two of you outlined it. We're looking at two point eight million people out of work due to long term sickness. That's an all time record in the UK, but also nine point three million working age adults economically inactive. So, as you say, the government has set this target of an eighty percent employment rate, which is a level that the UK has never had. It was at its peak, I think it was around seventy six percent just before the pandemic, but we've never had an eighty percent employment rate. It's lower than that, not but as part of this push for growth, the government is really key to tackle this problem. And then of course is obviously the extra offshoot problem of that, which is the big Benefits Bill which keeps rising.

As you say, yeah, this is a white paper, which means that it's sort of in government language. That's when the government releases a report that details, you know, in quite extensive detail, what the problem is and sets out the government's policy to solve it. At time of recording, it hasn't been published yet. It comes out in about in our time when Liz Kennell gets up to speak. We've had a very detailed press release and you know, background conversations. But I think you know, it is completely possible that there's some detail in it when it's published in an R two that we haven't seen yet, but we kind of already know that the problem, like the two of you outlined it. We're looking at two point eight million people out of work due to long term sickness. That's an all time record in the UK, but also nine point three million working age adults economically inactive. So, as you say, the government has set this target of an eighty percent employment rate, which is a level that the UK has never had. It was at its peak, I think it was around seventy six percent just before the pandemic, but we've never had an eighty percent employment rate. It's lower than that, not but as part of this push for growth, the government is really key to tackle this problem. And then of course is obviously the extra offshoot problem of that, which is the big Benefits Bill which keeps rising.

And very few countries OECD countries have anywhere near that eighty percent level. Either in context in terms of whether it can bring down the Benefits Bill, because that's the other equation, whether this will actually mean cuts to welfare, we also don't really know about that at the moment.

And very few countries OECD countries have anywhere near that eighty percent level. Either in context in terms of whether it can bring down the Benefits Bill, because that's the other equation, whether this will actually mean cuts to welfare, we also don't really know about that at the moment.

Yeah, you could say that the government is kind of taking a carrot and stick approach to this and today is the carrot and the stick is coming in the spring. So this is the kind of the white paper that sets out the kind of positive things that the government thinks it can do to encourage people back into work. We've kind of highlighted, you know, reading between the lines, some of the trickier things that you mentioned, Lizzie, such as withdrawing benefits from people who don't accept work or training, but actually the real thrust of it from the government is sort of positive inside. So every young person to be offered employment or training, changing job centers so that they're not so focused just on delivering benefits, but sort of the skills agenda, making sure that people are in the right kind of training for employment, and looking at the overall career trajectory of things that this paper is also looking into, how employers can better support people with long term sickness or disabilities to stay in the workforce. It's all meant to be quite positive, and it's more the sort of the journalist's spin of like looking, you know, between the lines, that means that it's still looking a bit people are sort of trying to work out where the tougher stuff is, but actually I don't think that that's today. What's really happening is that this is meant to, you know, hopefully around the edges, reduce the Benefits Bill, but in a positive way, bringing people back into work. And then in the spring comes the really difficult bit, because that's when the government will outline where they are cutting the Benefits Bill. They're quite explicit in the bottom of the press release that we got on this that they want to reduce the Health and Disability Benefits Bill, and of course they've already inherited cuts in this area. Jeremy Hunt announswered them before the last election. Rachel Reeves has matched them. But we don't know yet where the money is coming from, and we're not going to know until the spring. But we can see the direction of travel because they've said that they will consult extensively with disabled people in the spring on the impact of the cuts. So reading between the lines, the direction of travel is cuts to disability benefits, which will be quite tough. But they're just kicking the candle on the road again on this and even when it's announced in spring, it will be subject to consultation. They'll say that they're in listening mode, So it could be really quite a long time before the government just fronts it up and says here's what we're doing, here's where the cuts are falling.

Yeah, you could say that the government is kind of taking a carrot and stick approach to this and today is the carrot and the stick is coming in the spring. So this is the kind of the white paper that sets out the kind of positive things that the government thinks it can do to encourage people back into work. We've kind of highlighted, you know, reading between the lines, some of the trickier things that you mentioned, Lizzie, such as withdrawing benefits from people who don't accept work or training, but actually the real thrust of it from the government is sort of positive inside. So every young person to be offered employment or training, changing job centers so that they're not so focused just on delivering benefits, but sort of the skills agenda, making sure that people are in the right kind of training for employment, and looking at the overall career trajectory of things that this paper is also looking into, how employers can better support people with long term sickness or disabilities to stay in the workforce. It's all meant to be quite positive, and it's more the sort of the journalist's spin of like looking, you know, between the lines, that means that it's still looking a bit people are sort of trying to work out where the tougher stuff is, but actually I don't think that that's today. What's really happening is that this is meant to, you know, hopefully around the edges, reduce the Benefits Bill, but in a positive way, bringing people back into work. And then in the spring comes the really difficult bit, because that's when the government will outline where they are cutting the Benefits Bill. They're quite explicit in the bottom of the press release that we got on this that they want to reduce the Health and Disability Benefits Bill, and of course they've already inherited cuts in this area. Jeremy Hunt announswered them before the last election. Rachel Reeves has matched them. But we don't know yet where the money is coming from, and we're not going to know until the spring. But we can see the direction of travel because they've said that they will consult extensively with disabled people in the spring on the impact of the cuts. So reading between the lines, the direction of travel is cuts to disability benefits, which will be quite tough. But they're just kicking the candle on the road again on this and even when it's announced in spring, it will be subject to consultation. They'll say that they're in listening mode, So it could be really quite a long time before the government just fronts it up and says here's what we're doing, here's where the cuts are falling.

Yeah, it's conveniently lots of headlines in the Daily Telegraph alluding to, as I say, get on your bike, but as you say, the policy might not actually come into oction for a long time. It's funny the way you say there having to reframe the carrot and the stick. I remember when Jonathan Ashworth was Shadow Work and Pension Secretary, we talked to him about how there's such a difference in the feel between a recruitment center and a job center. The job center really feels like the place where you go and pick up your benefits, not where you go and find a job. And that was at a time when it was mel Stride who was dealing with the economic inactivity problem and he was in the Tory government. But from what we know at the moment, alb like, what's the difference between the labor approach and the conservative approach to this problem?

Yeah, it's conveniently lots of headlines in the Daily Telegraph alluding to, as I say, get on your bike, but as you say, the policy might not actually come into oction for a long time. It's funny the way you say there having to reframe the carrot and the stick. I remember when Jonathan Ashworth was Shadow Work and Pension Secretary, we talked to him about how there's such a difference in the feel between a recruitment center and a job center. The job center really feels like the place where you go and pick up your benefits, not where you go and find a job. And that was at a time when it was mel Stride who was dealing with the economic inactivity problem and he was in the Tory government. But from what we know at the moment, alb like, what's the difference between the labor approach and the conservative approach to this problem?

Then I think that if a labor person was speaking really honestly to you, they would say that they're just trying, they're trying to do the same cuts better.

Then I think that if a labor person was speaking really honestly to you, they would say that they're just trying, they're trying to do the same cuts better.

They're just picking up where the Tories left off, but.

They're just picking up where the Tories left off, but.

They basically haven't committed to any specific pensions yet. And so I think that by front loading this with sort of more positive measures to sort of asking employers, how can we actually help disable people to stay in the workplace or people struggling with long term sickness? How can we be a bit more accommodating what needs to change? And also, you know, a big portion of this is actually just changes to the health service. If you clear that backlog, then the hope is that you actually do reduce some of that long term sickness. But actually, like fundamentally your question is completely correct. They are going to make the same cuts probably, and they just don't know how I at.

They basically haven't committed to any specific pensions yet. And so I think that by front loading this with sort of more positive measures to sort of asking employers, how can we actually help disable people to stay in the workplace or people struggling with long term sickness? How can we be a bit more accommodating what needs to change? And also, you know, a big portion of this is actually just changes to the health service. If you clear that backlog, then the hope is that you actually do reduce some of that long term sickness. But actually, like fundamentally your question is completely correct. They are going to make the same cuts probably, and they just don't know how I at.

Well, except the framing, the aims and the road that you travel along are also important, aren't they in terms of the kind of philosophical difference between Labor and Tory. But having said that, how does labor square this with the workers' rights Bill? And also how do they square this when business does seem to have fallen kind of out of love if they ever were in love with the labor parties? Certainly at the CBI conference yesterday, and they're being asked to do a lot, as you say, to keep people, for example, also who are unwell in various ways in work for longer, to try to sort of keep people attached to their job.

Well, except the framing, the aims and the road that you travel along are also important, aren't they in terms of the kind of philosophical difference between Labor and Tory. But having said that, how does labor square this with the workers' rights Bill? And also how do they square this when business does seem to have fallen kind of out of love if they ever were in love with the labor parties? Certainly at the CBI conference yesterday, and they're being asked to do a lot, as you say, to keep people, for example, also who are unwell in various ways in work for longer, to try to sort of keep people attached to their job.

This is very unfortunate timing for the government because you have this massive contradiction between announcing your plans to get to an eighty percent employment rate at the same time as businesses are warning that they're going to have to cut jobs because of all the measures in the.

This is very unfortunate timing for the government because you have this massive contradiction between announcing your plans to get to an eighty percent employment rate at the same time as businesses are warning that they're going to have to cut jobs because of all the measures in the.

Budget or a back hiring.

Budget or a back hiring.

Yeah, exactly, so actually we might see the employment rate decrease potentially, but that depends on time horizons and immigration and so many things. But definitely there's a bit of a tension there and that's sort of and they coincided in our story as well.

Yeah, exactly, so actually we might see the employment rate decrease potentially, but that depends on time horizons and immigration and so many things. But definitely there's a bit of a tension there and that's sort of and they coincided in our story as well.

But then there's also the issue of you know, if you also at the same time want to clamp down on migration at least a number of people coming in to the UK, you also have to do more with the labor supply that you've got at the moment.

But then there's also the issue of you know, if you also at the same time want to clamp down on migration at least a number of people coming in to the UK, you also have to do more with the labor supply that you've got at the moment.

I don't know how it compares with the Conservatives, but definitely labor have put a lot of thought into the skills agenda, and it's sort of a big part of one of their five missions, sort of increasing opportunity. So the idea I think, actually when you look at the plans on this is actually it is quite joined up with what the Health Department is doing, and what the Education Department is doing, what the Home Office is doing in terms of youth hubs, skills, et cetera. And also devolution. Mayors are going to have a big role in this. Like from speaking to lots of local government officials, it sounds as though they hear from you know, a local manufacturer that they don't have the skills that they need, They don't have young people with the skills they need to come and do the jobs that they need to do. And then the local university or the local college isn't really training people and they just need a sort of a mayor or someone in the middle to facilitate that and say, Okay, if we have a course in this on the one hand, then we will have jobs here on the other. And so I think that the skills agenda and encouraging people back into work that way is going to be a big part of this.

I don't know how it compares with the Conservatives, but definitely labor have put a lot of thought into the skills agenda, and it's sort of a big part of one of their five missions, sort of increasing opportunity. So the idea I think, actually when you look at the plans on this is actually it is quite joined up with what the Health Department is doing, and what the Education Department is doing, what the Home Office is doing in terms of youth hubs, skills, et cetera. And also devolution. Mayors are going to have a big role in this. Like from speaking to lots of local government officials, it sounds as though they hear from you know, a local manufacturer that they don't have the skills that they need, They don't have young people with the skills they need to come and do the jobs that they need to do. And then the local university or the local college isn't really training people and they just need a sort of a mayor or someone in the middle to facilitate that and say, Okay, if we have a course in this on the one hand, then we will have jobs here on the other. And so I think that the skills agenda and encouraging people back into work that way is going to be a big part of this.

Yeah, and also the way that we measure, you know, this goal of getting to eighty percent employment rate. Actually, when you look at how the oec D does it and these other sort of supernational kind of organizations that look at economics, they do slice it by age groups, so they don't just think about getting eighty an employment for everybody. They actually they dice it up into different age groups and whether you can get to that target within the age group. So that's sort of also quite important.

Yeah, and also the way that we measure, you know, this goal of getting to eighty percent employment rate. Actually, when you look at how the oec D does it and these other sort of supernational kind of organizations that look at economics, they do slice it by age groups, so they don't just think about getting eighty an employment for everybody. They actually they dice it up into different age groups and whether you can get to that target within the age group. So that's sort of also quite important.

Can I ask you a big picture of you just to take the temperature. There's been this petition that I'm sure listeners will have seen on the Parliament website calling for another election. It's been signed by two point three million people. Caroline mentioned how there's this sense of impatience at the CBI that we got yesterday, which is a complete contrast from when Kirstarma arrived in opposition and he was like the rock star of the conference. How seriously should we take all this or do you think it's just newspapers lapping up the drama about a government that's been in an office for a few months now.

Can I ask you a big picture of you just to take the temperature. There's been this petition that I'm sure listeners will have seen on the Parliament website calling for another election. It's been signed by two point three million people. Caroline mentioned how there's this sense of impatience at the CBI that we got yesterday, which is a complete contrast from when Kirstarma arrived in opposition and he was like the rock star of the conference. How seriously should we take all this or do you think it's just newspapers lapping up the drama about a government that's been in an office for a few months now.

I mean, I don't think that things are going well at christ Well. I mean they have a long time and I mean the blessing is that they don't have to call an election for a long time, so that position doesn't really matter. And obviously we take that number with a massive pinch of salt, because people from all around the world can sign that as long as they can find a British postcode.

I mean, I don't think that things are going well at christ Well. I mean they have a long time and I mean the blessing is that they don't have to call an election for a long time, so that position doesn't really matter. And obviously we take that number with a massive pinch of salt, because people from all around the world can sign that as long as they can find a British postcode.

But I think that.

But I think that.

There is a there is a sense of I think panic and looking towards Christmas. I think the government is trying to think of doing a bit of a reset, specifying targets within its five missions and kind of trying to stay on message.

There is a there is a sense of I think panic and looking towards Christmas. I think the government is trying to think of doing a bit of a reset, specifying targets within its five missions and kind of trying to stay on message.

Okay, yeah, the difficulty in office a few months, but they've got to get on with it. Do they have time to deliver on that decade of national renewal which is what they have promised? Alva, thank you so much for your time. That is Bloomberg's associate editor a covering UK politics, Alva Ray, thank you.

Okay, yeah, the difficulty in office a few months, but they've got to get on with it. Do they have time to deliver on that decade of national renewal which is what they have promised? Alva, thank you so much for your time. That is Bloomberg's associate editor a covering UK politics, Alva Ray, thank you.

That's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe, give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

That's it from us for today. If you like the program, don't forget to subscribe, give it five stars so other people can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

This episode was produced by Tiba Adabayo, ur audio engineer, with Seauan West Samakia. I'm Caroline Hipka and.

This episode was produced by Tiba Adabayo, ur audio engineer, with Seauan West Samakia. I'm Caroline Hipka and.

I'm Lizzie Berlin. We'll be back with more tomorrow.

I'm Lizzie Berlin. We'll be back with more tomorrow.

This is blom Work Bloomberg UK Politics. Listen weekdays at noon on DAB Digital radio in London

This is blom Work Bloomberg UK Politics. Listen weekdays at noon on DAB Digital radio in London