Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

Live from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.

Live from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.

Coming up.

Coming up.

The Trump administration moves to rescind the AI diffusion rule launched by President Biden, looking to draft its own approach. Plus, the US is clearing a path for Saudi Arabia and the UAE to pursue their AI ambitions, with Nvideo and AMD winning multi billion dollar deals in the region, and a ban on supersonic commercial flights over the US land could soon be history. Let's get to financial markets, the technology sector and AI infrastructure. These are the big movers to the upside. We talked about in the last twenty four hours. The deals that in VideA and AMD one to sell their cutting edge processors or AI accelerators to Saudi Arabia. Note the outperformance of AMD up around five percent. They also are doing a six billion dollar additional share buyback. They already had four billion dollars of buy back outstanding. Super Micro, with its own twenty billion dollar deal for data center.

The Trump administration moves to rescind the AI diffusion rule launched by President Biden, looking to draft its own approach. Plus, the US is clearing a path for Saudi Arabia and the UAE to pursue their AI ambitions, with Nvideo and AMD winning multi billion dollar deals in the region, and a ban on supersonic commercial flights over the US land could soon be history. Let's get to financial markets, the technology sector and AI infrastructure. These are the big movers to the upside. We talked about in the last twenty four hours. The deals that in VideA and AMD one to sell their cutting edge processors or AI accelerators to Saudi Arabia. Note the outperformance of AMD up around five percent. They also are doing a six billion dollar additional share buyback. They already had four billion dollars of buy back outstanding. Super Micro, with its own twenty billion dollar deal for data center.

Infrastructure in the Kingdom.

Infrastructure in the Kingdom.

Then there's the rethink on rules about technology export controls to the Gulf and other nations. The US has formally moved to rescind the AI diffusion rule and made it clear it would no longer be enforced, while the bureaucratic process of revoking the rule unfolds, Bluemogs Mike Sheppard joins US now for more. We're making progress towards a place where America's biggest technology companies can sell that tech into read like the Gulf, But China is an outstanding question.

Then there's the rethink on rules about technology export controls to the Gulf and other nations. The US has formally moved to rescind the AI diffusion rule and made it clear it would no longer be enforced, while the bureaucratic process of revoking the rule unfolds, Bluemogs Mike Sheppard joins US now for more. We're making progress towards a place where America's biggest technology companies can sell that tech into read like the Gulf, But China is an outstanding question.

China is the outstanding question, and we're getting no signal from the Trump administration that there will be any relaxation of restrictions when it comes to China, especially not in the wake of deep Seek's breakthrough. We did see just about a month ago the Trump administration moved the bar and Video from selling its H twenty chip to China. This is a device that was designed for the Chinese market, and that is out of concern that the startups in China could use this chip as part of the inference model that could achieve AI breakthroughs. And the same thing applies to AMD's MII three to eight chips, so we are not seeing any relaxation of standards there. And while the administration is moving away from the AI diffusion rule, which set up, as you remember ed, these three broad tiers of countries governing their ability and their access to buy AI chips from amdm from Nvidio especially, they.

China is the outstanding question, and we're getting no signal from the Trump administration that there will be any relaxation of restrictions when it comes to China, especially not in the wake of deep Seek's breakthrough. We did see just about a month ago the Trump administration moved the bar and Video from selling its H twenty chip to China. This is a device that was designed for the Chinese market, and that is out of concern that the startups in China could use this chip as part of the inference model that could achieve AI breakthroughs. And the same thing applies to AMD's MII three to eight chips, so we are not seeing any relaxation of standards there. And while the administration is moving away from the AI diffusion rule, which set up, as you remember ed, these three broad tiers of countries governing their ability and their access to buy AI chips from amdm from Nvidio especially, they.

Are replacing them with something else.

Are replacing them with something else.

So this will be we expect a more bilateral approach, that each nation would forge its own agreement with the US and achieve some sort of security understanding whereby China would be prevented from acquiring the technology either physically or perhaps.

So this will be we expect a more bilateral approach, that each nation would forge its own agreement with the US and achieve some sort of security understanding whereby China would be prevented from acquiring the technology either physically or perhaps.

Via the cloud.

Via the cloud.

They would need to show security arrangements and standards before they'd be able to get through the door and acquire those chips.

They would need to show security arrangements and standards before they'd be able to get through the door and acquire those chips.

At the state of play of the last twenty four hours, is Nvidia, the most important US technology company right now, has a deal with Saudi Arabia. AMD has a deal with Saudi Arabia. But in terms of what comes next you alluded to it. We expect bilateral agreements between the United States, Saudi Arabia, and potentially the UAE at a nation to nation level.

At the state of play of the last twenty four hours, is Nvidia, the most important US technology company right now, has a deal with Saudi Arabia. AMD has a deal with Saudi Arabia. But in terms of what comes next you alluded to it. We expect bilateral agreements between the United States, Saudi Arabia, and potentially the UAE at a nation to nation level.

Well, that's right, and we were expecting to see some of that even during this trip, the president is still in the region. He has left realities and cutter right now accepting the perhaps new area one that we've heard about so much this week, and then as next up will be in the United Arab Emirates, and they also have a huge stake in the AI game, and they have, like Saudi Arabia, big ambitions in this area. Their G forty two company is really looking to leave a mark in the region. And one deal that our colleague Mackenzie Hawkins broke the news on would be perhaps allowing G forty two to buy hundreds of thousands of these AI processors from Nvidia over the next several years, and that would be a key breakthrough for the company and for the Emirate, which has these ambitions of expanding into AI and into advanced technology as way of diversifying its economy. Yet it's really critical for them to expand beyond just oil and gas that has made them so rich.

Well, that's right, and we were expecting to see some of that even during this trip, the president is still in the region. He has left realities and cutter right now accepting the perhaps new area one that we've heard about so much this week, and then as next up will be in the United Arab Emirates, and they also have a huge stake in the AI game, and they have, like Saudi Arabia, big ambitions in this area. Their G forty two company is really looking to leave a mark in the region. And one deal that our colleague Mackenzie Hawkins broke the news on would be perhaps allowing G forty two to buy hundreds of thousands of these AI processors from Nvidia over the next several years, and that would be a key breakthrough for the company and for the Emirate, which has these ambitions of expanding into AI and into advanced technology as way of diversifying its economy. Yet it's really critical for them to expand beyond just oil and gas that has made them so rich.

Over the years.

Over the years.

Bloembags Michael Sheppard out of Washington, d C. Thank you very much. Let's get more in the market.

Bloembags Michael Sheppard out of Washington, d C. Thank you very much. Let's get more in the market.

Reaction.

Reaction.

Bank of America came out saying that Nvidia and AMD have a multi billion dollar opportunity related to AI infrastructure projects, specifically in Saudi Arabia, and there's a lot of bullishness out there about the prospects of the deal announced in the last twenty four hours. Nancy Tegler is CEO and CIO of Laffatengler Investments, and those were deals between American companies, leading American technology companies and those that Golf Nation of Saudi Arabia is an investor. How did you react and respond to that news?

Bank of America came out saying that Nvidia and AMD have a multi billion dollar opportunity related to AI infrastructure projects, specifically in Saudi Arabia, and there's a lot of bullishness out there about the prospects of the deal announced in the last twenty four hours. Nancy Tegler is CEO and CIO of Laffatengler Investments, and those were deals between American companies, leading American technology companies and those that Golf Nation of Saudi Arabia is an investor. How did you react and respond to that news?

Well, thanks for having me ed. I mean, of course it's optimistic, rhetoric and potentially super beneficial to the ultimate earnings of the companies. We need to see when these investments come in and the timing and the volume. But I think just on an overall basis, what it does is it replaces the lost revenue from China. And it may not dollar for dollar, but it does psychologically. And so we were in buying these names. I've been on with you many times. We were buying in January, February, March, not just in Nvidia, but a number of the software related companies around AI and then of course Tesla. And I think that's a lesson to everyone that this trade is not over Wall Street tends to be very short term focused. Investors like me tend to be longer term focused. And what we learned yesterday is that is confirmation that were early innings in this AI buildout and it is potentially the fourth Industrial Revolution, and it is similar to what we saw in the nineties in terms of productivity enhancements.

Well, thanks for having me ed. I mean, of course it's optimistic, rhetoric and potentially super beneficial to the ultimate earnings of the companies. We need to see when these investments come in and the timing and the volume. But I think just on an overall basis, what it does is it replaces the lost revenue from China. And it may not dollar for dollar, but it does psychologically. And so we were in buying these names. I've been on with you many times. We were buying in January, February, March, not just in Nvidia, but a number of the software related companies around AI and then of course Tesla. And I think that's a lesson to everyone that this trade is not over Wall Street tends to be very short term focused. Investors like me tend to be longer term focused. And what we learned yesterday is that is confirmation that were early innings in this AI buildout and it is potentially the fourth Industrial Revolution, and it is similar to what we saw in the nineties in terms of productivity enhancements.

Nancy, stay with us and bear with me. We have some news crossing the Bloomberg terminal. E Toro Group's US shares are indicated to open at sixty three dollars and fifty cents each. This is pending trading on an IPO that priced at fifty two dollars a share, so priced at fifty two but indicated to open at sixty three dollars and fifty cents. The marketed range was forty six to fifty. E Toro basically a rival to robin Hood, the trading and investment platform Israel based company, and this is a IPO that would give the company at its fifty two dollars IPO price and market cap of about four point three billion dollars. Nancy Tanglo, while you're with us, I see some green shoots. Is that one way to put it in this US IPO market.

Nancy, stay with us and bear with me. We have some news crossing the Bloomberg terminal. E Toro Group's US shares are indicated to open at sixty three dollars and fifty cents each. This is pending trading on an IPO that priced at fifty two dollars a share, so priced at fifty two but indicated to open at sixty three dollars and fifty cents. The marketed range was forty six to fifty. E Toro basically a rival to robin Hood, the trading and investment platform Israel based company, and this is a IPO that would give the company at its fifty two dollars IPO price and market cap of about four point three billion dollars. Nancy Tanglo, while you're with us, I see some green shoots. Is that one way to put it in this US IPO market.

Yeah, I do think you're right, ed. I mean, this one makes me just a little bit nervous because it's piling on today trading. I think in many regards, however, I love seeing the retail investor engaged, in fact much more so than the institutional investor. And I do think that we'll continue to see acquisitions at M and A in general. We just launched a MidCap strategy for that very reason. So I do think this is bullish for the economy and the overall market, and you know, I commend them on their day one of trading.

Yeah, I do think you're right, ed. I mean, this one makes me just a little bit nervous because it's piling on today trading. I think in many regards, however, I love seeing the retail investor engaged, in fact much more so than the institutional investor. And I do think that we'll continue to see acquisitions at M and A in general. We just launched a MidCap strategy for that very reason. So I do think this is bullish for the economy and the overall market, and you know, I commend them on their day one of trading.

Let's go back to the big story, which I think is AI infrastructure in the relationship between the United States the golf. What we're trying to understand is what happens next. Our colleagues at Bloomberg Intelligence did the analysis on how much revenue in Nvidia and AMD will derive from that golf region. So ten to fifteen billion dollars in annual sales for Nvidia through twenty twenty seven, just one to two billion dollars for AMD in the same region.

Let's go back to the big story, which I think is AI infrastructure in the relationship between the United States the golf. What we're trying to understand is what happens next. Our colleagues at Bloomberg Intelligence did the analysis on how much revenue in Nvidia and AMD will derive from that golf region. So ten to fifteen billion dollars in annual sales for Nvidia through twenty twenty seven, just one to two billion dollars for AMD in the same region.

But here's the key bit.

But here's the key bit.

Cushioning the blow from unchanged China export perves. We open this program saying that the diffusion rule has been rescinded, but a new, specific Trump era rule will come. How do you think they will approach China?

Cushioning the blow from unchanged China export perves. We open this program saying that the diffusion rule has been rescinded, but a new, specific Trump era rule will come. How do you think they will approach China?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I do think that is the good news in all this. As I said earlier, the difficulty for investors in Nvidia was what were they going to do if China was taken off the table as a potential customer. So I think you'll I still think we'll see chips sold to China. The question is in what form? And then the question is how much does Nvidia and AMD need that revenue if they're opening up, if they have opened up new markets for distributions. So I think what the Trump administration has done is isolate certain adversaries, So think Iran, Russia, China by going on this goodwill trip to the Middle East.

I do think that is the good news in all this. As I said earlier, the difficulty for investors in Nvidia was what were they going to do if China was taken off the table as a potential customer. So I think you'll I still think we'll see chips sold to China. The question is in what form? And then the question is how much does Nvidia and AMD need that revenue if they're opening up, if they have opened up new markets for distributions. So I think what the Trump administration has done is isolate certain adversaries, So think Iran, Russia, China by going on this goodwill trip to the Middle East.

Let me show you a chart, and this chart shows that as of today's market open, Nvidia jumped above Apple as the world's second most valuable company. Microsoft remains in place as the world's most valuable company. Given everything that we've discussed and the events of the last twenty four hours, where do you need to be right now?

Let me show you a chart, and this chart shows that as of today's market open, Nvidia jumped above Apple as the world's second most valuable company. Microsoft remains in place as the world's most valuable company. Given everything that we've discussed and the events of the last twenty four hours, where do you need to be right now?

Nancy?

Nancy?

In the infrastructure play or in the software Hyperscala play with Microsoft.

In the infrastructure play or in the software Hyperscala play with Microsoft.

So I do think at the margin you want to be adding to the software play, which is you know, we added to Nvidia twice this year, but we also added to Microsoft and Palanteer and then some of the cyber names Oracle as well on the software side. So I think that is going to be the next stage of build out. And we took the proceeds from names like Dell that we felt like had had a nice run, and you know, on evaluation basis relative to growth and margins was probably mostly worked out. It's you know, that's been a good call so far. But I think you want to if you have to pick, I think you want to pick software over hardware.

So I do think at the margin you want to be adding to the software play, which is you know, we added to Nvidia twice this year, but we also added to Microsoft and Palanteer and then some of the cyber names Oracle as well on the software side. So I think that is going to be the next stage of build out. And we took the proceeds from names like Dell that we felt like had had a nice run, and you know, on evaluation basis relative to growth and margins was probably mostly worked out. It's you know, that's been a good call so far. But I think you want to if you have to pick, I think you want to pick software over hardware.

Nancy Tangler of laf for Tengler Investments, thank you very much. Ten cents or revenue grow at its fastest pay since twenty twenty one, posting a thirteen percent jump in sales to twenty five billion dollars in the March Cores. The results giving confidence to investors that China's most valuable company could weather a potential global downturn in twenty twenty five. For more, bloombergs Henry Wren joins us and Henry. I mean, what are the main factor is the drive growth in ten cents business right now?

Nancy Tangler of laf for Tengler Investments, thank you very much. Ten cents or revenue grow at its fastest pay since twenty twenty one, posting a thirteen percent jump in sales to twenty five billion dollars in the March Cores. The results giving confidence to investors that China's most valuable company could weather a potential global downturn in twenty twenty five. For more, bloombergs Henry Wren joins us and Henry. I mean, what are the main factor is the drive growth in ten cents business right now?

Yeah, two growth engines to mention one, the most important one is the domestic gaming business and that has been the key driver for the quarter, and the company said that it's evergreen games such as Owner of Kings has registered record high levels of gross receipts in the quarter and that has been the most important driver. And some neurogames also shine as well. For example, the twenty twenty four release game called the Delta Force also has become one of the most played games in China. Another driver has been about the advertising revenue, which grew by about twenty percent in the first quarter, and that's down to the Wichat app, the short form video platform embedded in Wichat that has impressed as well.

Yeah, two growth engines to mention one, the most important one is the domestic gaming business and that has been the key driver for the quarter, and the company said that it's evergreen games such as Owner of Kings has registered record high levels of gross receipts in the quarter and that has been the most important driver. And some neurogames also shine as well. For example, the twenty twenty four release game called the Delta Force also has become one of the most played games in China. Another driver has been about the advertising revenue, which grew by about twenty percent in the first quarter, and that's down to the Wichat app, the short form video platform embedded in Wichat that has impressed as well.

This is a company that's heavily investing in AI research and ways to monetize to create products with AI.

This is a company that's heavily investing in AI research and ways to monetize to create products with AI.

What do we learn about that?

What do we learn about that?

Yeah, A lot of focus you can imagine, probably on the analysts core is about, you know, whether what's your plan about AI investments and how do you look about the recent band on restrictions on AI chips in China and the company gave a very long but pretty honest answer in terms of restrictions, and first, in terms of investments, the company is still investing hard. In terms of CAPEX, we are talking about the company doubling.

Yeah, A lot of focus you can imagine, probably on the analysts core is about, you know, whether what's your plan about AI investments and how do you look about the recent band on restrictions on AI chips in China and the company gave a very long but pretty honest answer in terms of restrictions, and first, in terms of investments, the company is still investing hard. In terms of CAPEX, we are talking about the company doubling.

Its capex versus versus.

Its capex versus versus.

A year earlier, although easing of slightly from the four Q levels. But in terms of restrictions, the company said well, in terms of the key businesses, for example, the promotion of advertising as well as the gaming business, and the current backlog of AI chips is probably enough, but in terms of AI training, the company needs more powerful AI chips, the more powerful cluster of chips. However, the focus for now is to improve on the software side given the restraint.

A year earlier, although easing of slightly from the four Q levels. But in terms of restrictions, the company said well, in terms of the key businesses, for example, the promotion of advertising as well as the gaming business, and the current backlog of AI chips is probably enough, but in terms of AI training, the company needs more powerful AI chips, the more powerful cluster of chips. However, the focus for now is to improve on the software side given the restraint.

Blue Legs Henry Ren on all things ten Cent, thank you very much. Another story, we're tracking no fee banking startup Chime filed publicly for an IPO resuming plans. It is placed on pause when Trump's tariff plans world markets last month. It's the latest company fast tracking its public offering prospects. More on the IPO outlook. Bloomber's Katie Roof joins us and Katie. You know, we're tracking so many names at once now, which is interesting of itself.

Blue Legs Henry Ren on all things ten Cent, thank you very much. Another story, we're tracking no fee banking startup Chime filed publicly for an IPO resuming plans. It is placed on pause when Trump's tariff plans world markets last month. It's the latest company fast tracking its public offering prospects. More on the IPO outlook. Bloomber's Katie Roof joins us and Katie. You know, we're tracking so many names at once now, which is interesting of itself.

Tell me about Chime.

Tell me about Chime.

What we know about this, the mechanism at which they want to go to market.

What we know about this, the mechanism at which they want to go to market.

Yeah, so we saw Chimes IPO filing yesterday. You know, they're the no fee bank that was valued at twenty five billion in the twenty twenty one boom. They've raised a lot of money from many different investors, including Memlo Adventures and Iconic. They usually when there's a filing, you want to go public a couple of weeks after you start your roadshow, so usually within a month, although recently the tariffs had delayed, so all the ones that had filings flop public. But you know, we're starting to see IPOs again with e Toro.

Yeah, so we saw Chimes IPO filing yesterday. You know, they're the no fee bank that was valued at twenty five billion in the twenty twenty one boom. They've raised a lot of money from many different investors, including Memlo Adventures and Iconic. They usually when there's a filing, you want to go public a couple of weeks after you start your roadshow, so usually within a month, although recently the tariffs had delayed, so all the ones that had filings flop public. But you know, we're starting to see IPOs again with e Toro.

With Etro. If you're just joining the program.

With Etro. If you're just joining the program.

Just before we came on air, e Toro's US shares were indicated to open Kadie at sixty three dollars fifty cents each. Sixty three dollars fifty cents each. The IPO priced at fifty two. We're waiting for that start of trading. E Toro is an interesting one Israel based trading platform. Kind of arrival to Robin Hood. Tell me about this IPO.

Just before we came on air, e Toro's US shares were indicated to open Kadie at sixty three dollars fifty cents each. Sixty three dollars fifty cents each. The IPO priced at fifty two. We're waiting for that start of trading. E Toro is an interesting one Israel based trading platform. Kind of arrival to Robin Hood. Tell me about this IPO.

Sure, well, it was a long time coming, not just you know, with IPOs getting delayed repeatedly the last few years, but also this is a startup that's been around for more than fifteen years and you know they're finally going through with their IPO. If you look at a comp Robinhood, Robinhood's been surging you to date. So it actually makes a lot of sense that e Toro would want to go public in a market like this.

Sure, well, it was a long time coming, not just you know, with IPOs getting delayed repeatedly the last few years, but also this is a startup that's been around for more than fifteen years and you know they're finally going through with their IPO. If you look at a comp Robinhood, Robinhood's been surging you to date. So it actually makes a lot of sense that e Toro would want to go public in a market like this.

Bloomers, Katie Roof and all things IPO, thank you very much. Now, coming up on Bloomberg Technology, we're going to hear from the Twilio CEO Cozmer Ship Chandlers. The company kicks off its Signal Developers conference back in person for the first time since twenty nineteen.

Bloomers, Katie Roof and all things IPO, thank you very much. Now, coming up on Bloomberg Technology, we're going to hear from the Twilio CEO Cozmer Ship Chandlers. The company kicks off its Signal Developers conference back in person for the first time since twenty nineteen.

This is Bloomberg Technology.

This is Bloomberg Technology.

I caught up with Twilio CEO kozmer Ship Chandler as the company's bringing back it's Signal Developers conference to San Francisco in person for the first time since twenty nineteen, and that kicks off today and as a part of that, they announced a new multi year partnership with Microsoft.

I caught up with Twilio CEO kozmer Ship Chandler as the company's bringing back it's Signal Developers conference to San Francisco in person for the first time since twenty nineteen, and that kicks off today and as a part of that, they announced a new multi year partnership with Microsoft.

So with respect to Microsoft, we announced a multi year strategic partnership. Obviously they're an incredible brand that they've got great enterprise scale. We really view it as two great companies coming together to be able to deliver on the vision that.

So with respect to Microsoft, we announced a multi year strategic partnership. Obviously they're an incredible brand that they've got great enterprise scale. We really view it as two great companies coming together to be able to deliver on the vision that.

We've laid out.

We've laid out.

In particular, we're going to use them for their amazing AI technology. I think they've done some really interesting things with respect to as youre AI workloads. Again, we're going to bring that together with our contextual data capabilities plus our communications all in one platform. I think importantly, we're increasingly going to market as an infrastructure layer, one that unlocks the customer experience layer of the Internet, if you will, and I think Microsoft's can be a big part of that story.

In particular, we're going to use them for their amazing AI technology. I think they've done some really interesting things with respect to as youre AI workloads. Again, we're going to bring that together with our contextual data capabilities plus our communications all in one platform. I think importantly, we're increasingly going to market as an infrastructure layer, one that unlocks the customer experience layer of the Internet, if you will, and I think Microsoft's can be a big part of that story.

So do we view this as kind of a sales channel move? You know, there's an argument that working with Microsoft in this way on a shared common platform helps Twilio go after a much larger addressable market in which it hasn't historically played.

So do we view this as kind of a sales channel move? You know, there's an argument that working with Microsoft in this way on a shared common platform helps Twilio go after a much larger addressable market in which it hasn't historically played.

I think that's.

I think that's.

Definitely a possibility as time goes on. But we're really starting from the foundations as a technology partnership. You know, we both pride ourselves on delivering technologies for Builders. As I mentioned a moment ago, you know, Builder is very much in the ethos of the company, their technology conference, which is in a week is labeled Build and so I think that just fits nicely together, and.

Definitely a possibility as time goes on. But we're really starting from the foundations as a technology partnership. You know, we both pride ourselves on delivering technologies for Builders. As I mentioned a moment ago, you know, Builder is very much in the ethos of the company, their technology conference, which is in a week is labeled Build and so I think that just fits nicely together, and.

I think we'll see how things go there.

I think we'll see how things go there.

We're very proud of some of the abilities that we're launching together, and I think it does open the door for commercial relationship down the road that.

We're very proud of some of the abilities that we're launching together, and I think it does open the door for commercial relationship down the road that.

Was Twilio's CEO Kozma Ship Chandler, from partnerships to team sports.

Was Twilio's CEO Kozma Ship Chandler, from partnerships to team sports.

That's what Bench Capital has always been a bit of.

That's what Bench Capital has always been a bit of.

But now we're seeing the rise of the solo general partner where just one person raises the money and makes investing decisions. Joshua Browder is one such solo GP. His firm, Browder Capital, just announced a thirty million dollar raise for its fourth fund. Joshua is with me in the studio and in those watching. Probably know you best is the CEO of Do Not Pay, which short description is an AI powered lawyer chatbot that originally helps you get out of parking tickets. Why do you want to raise that much money and invest it on your own without any partners?

But now we're seeing the rise of the solo general partner where just one person raises the money and makes investing decisions. Joshua Browder is one such solo GP. His firm, Browder Capital, just announced a thirty million dollar raise for its fourth fund. Joshua is with me in the studio and in those watching. Probably know you best is the CEO of Do Not Pay, which short description is an AI powered lawyer chatbot that originally helps you get out of parking tickets. Why do you want to raise that much money and invest it on your own without any partners?

So I specialize in backing young founders. I'm an investor in more Tiel fellows than anyone else, and I think young undiscovered talent is really a great investment opportunity. I was lucky to be the first investor in a company called Owner, which yesterday announced around a one billion valuation.

So I specialize in backing young founders. I'm an investor in more Tiel fellows than anyone else, and I think young undiscovered talent is really a great investment opportunity. I was lucky to be the first investor in a company called Owner, which yesterday announced around a one billion valuation.

Right, So you took them from basically precede when you made your investment to unicorn status. So you're now saying you think you can do this.

Right, So you took them from basically precede when you made your investment to unicorn status. So you're now saying you think you can do this.

I think that everyone is chasing hype, but young founders are really the future. And I love undiscovered people that everyone is passing on, and I go all in. I have one staying with me right now in my apartment.

I think that everyone is chasing hype, but young founders are really the future. And I love undiscovered people that everyone is passing on, and I go all in. I have one staying with me right now in my apartment.

I put there, what do you mean by that? So you've invited someone you've invested in, given them.

I put there, what do you mean by that? So you've invited someone you've invested in, given them.

A home, Yeah, give them a home, give them their first check, and really put them on the circuit. And I love to relive my own founder journey and founders working with other founders.

A home, Yeah, give them a home, give them their first check, and really put them on the circuit. And I love to relive my own founder journey and founders working with other founders.

So the core question here is why is that more beneficial to the founder than them taking a check from one of the giant firms.

So the core question here is why is that more beneficial to the founder than them taking a check from one of the giant firms.

They're not even ready to take one from the giant funds. I catch them on day one, and everyone is chasing hype. I think the way to winners actually create your own hype and create your own winners.

They're not even ready to take one from the giant funds. I catch them on day one, and everyone is chasing hype. I think the way to winners actually create your own hype and create your own winners.

It's interesting where you raise the money from. So one of the anchors of fund for is Sequoia, a very large firm.

It's interesting where you raise the money from. So one of the anchors of fund for is Sequoia, a very large firm.

We will have a partner from Sequoia on later in the program.

We will have a partner from Sequoia on later in the program.

But Mark and Dreason also contributed to the fund personally with his own money.

But Mark and Dreason also contributed to the fund personally with his own money.

Why might he do that?

Why might he do that?

I think he has a tradition of putting first fund managers in business, and this is my first institutional fund. I should mention he's also the first investor.

I think he has a tradition of putting first fund managers in business, and this is my first institutional fund. I should mention he's also the first investor.

And do not pay.

And do not pay.

But he did that through Endres and Horowitz. That's a giant firm. So now he's giving money to you personally out of his own pocket because he feels that you can what get to founders earlier than Andresen Horowitz can.

But he did that through Endres and Horowitz. That's a giant firm. So now he's giving money to you personally out of his own pocket because he feels that you can what get to founders earlier than Andresen Horowitz can.

At this stage, I.

At this stage, I.

Would just say, it's about helping the ecosystem.

Would just say, it's about helping the ecosystem.

What's the strategy here, what kind of size checks where you write, what cadence of deals you want to do because we're talking early stage.

What's the strategy here, what kind of size checks where you write, what cadence of deals you want to do because we're talking early stage.

So there's so much noise right now. People are doing dozens or even hundreds of deals a year. I want to take the opposite approach. I take one person every month or every other month and go all in for them, and that can be a two hundred K check and it can be as high as a million dollars?

So there's so much noise right now. People are doing dozens or even hundreds of deals a year. I want to take the opposite approach. I take one person every month or every other month and go all in for them, and that can be a two hundred K check and it can be as high as a million dollars?

Is it like more akin to an incubator than it is to sort of traditional.

Is it like more akin to an incubator than it is to sort of traditional.

Seed series A series B round.

Seed series A series B round.

It's really up to the founder to build their business, but it's almost like an incubator. I feel like I'm a railroad conductor putting them on the right track.

It's really up to the founder to build their business, but it's almost like an incubator. I feel like I'm a railroad conductor putting them on the right track.

You also have a job at Do Not Pay. How are you going to manage that? You know, leading your own startup as well as backing others finding the.

You also have a job at Do Not Pay. How are you going to manage that? You know, leading your own startup as well as backing others finding the.

Next Do not Pay founders really love to work with other founders, and I think it's an unfair advantage being a founder and investor. No one likes to work with a money manager or a professional investor. And because I can give that founder energy and share solutions to problems that I've overcome, founders really appreciate that.

Next Do not Pay founders really love to work with other founders, and I think it's an unfair advantage being a founder and investor. No one likes to work with a money manager or a professional investor. And because I can give that founder energy and share solutions to problems that I've overcome, founders really appreciate that.

What are the learnings you're taking from the Do Not Pay story in how you want to approach this? Like I recall a story where you had breakfast with Mark and recent in twenty sixteen, and at that time Do Not Pay was going to be a not for profit, but you were convinced otherwise by him.

What are the learnings you're taking from the Do Not Pay story in how you want to approach this? Like I recall a story where you had breakfast with Mark and recent in twenty sixteen, and at that time Do Not Pay was going to be a not for profit, but you were convinced otherwise by him.

Yes, and the tiniest moment or strategy. Change can change everything, and I want to be that for my founders. I've dealt with problems that I can help them uniquely with. So for example, how to get that app classified so that they're not paying thirty percent to Apple, which is something that we always deal with.

Yes, and the tiniest moment or strategy. Change can change everything, and I want to be that for my founders. I've dealt with problems that I can help them uniquely with. So for example, how to get that app classified so that they're not paying thirty percent to Apple, which is something that we always deal with.

The Do Not Pay Joshua Browder, CEO Do Not Pay plus the solo GP and founder of Browder Capital.

The Do Not Pay Joshua Browder, CEO Do Not Pay plus the solo GP and founder of Browder Capital.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Apple is investing five hundred billion dollars, the video is investing, and I see my friend is here, Jensen. That's very good wherever you may be. I thank you very much because he's putting in five hundred billion dollars. TSMC is investing two hundred billion, and with this trip we're adding over one trillion dollars more in terms of investment.

Apple is investing five hundred billion dollars, the video is investing, and I see my friend is here, Jensen. That's very good wherever you may be. I thank you very much because he's putting in five hundred billion dollars. TSMC is investing two hundred billion, and with this trip we're adding over one trillion dollars more in terms of investment.

Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology, Imed Ludlow in San Francisco, and that was President Trump there in Riad yesterday talking up all of the deals that have taken place in the last twenty four hours, largely in AI infrastructure. When it comes to financial markets, there's like a bit of fatigue out there, although up basically half a percentage point. Then as that one hundred is out performing other major innesses. What the President also said on Air Force one last night is that he wants America to lead in both the theaters of AI and crypto, although bitcoin under a bit of pressure one hundred and three thousand or so US dollars per token. These are the single names that we're really focused on in tech stocks right now, and they are printedly the chip makers and Video and AMD both securing multi year, multi billion dollar deals to ship their latest generation AI accelerators to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and Bloomberg also reporting citing sources that a deal with UAE is coming as well. Bloomberg's Amri Horden is in the golf and has been following the latest on President Donald Trump's visit to the Middle East and joins US now at AMH. The centerpiece of all of this is the deal between two leading or maybe more than two leading American technology companies and their access to markets in the golf.

Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology, Imed Ludlow in San Francisco, and that was President Trump there in Riad yesterday talking up all of the deals that have taken place in the last twenty four hours, largely in AI infrastructure. When it comes to financial markets, there's like a bit of fatigue out there, although up basically half a percentage point. Then as that one hundred is out performing other major innesses. What the President also said on Air Force one last night is that he wants America to lead in both the theaters of AI and crypto, although bitcoin under a bit of pressure one hundred and three thousand or so US dollars per token. These are the single names that we're really focused on in tech stocks right now, and they are printedly the chip makers and Video and AMD both securing multi year, multi billion dollar deals to ship their latest generation AI accelerators to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and Bloomberg also reporting citing sources that a deal with UAE is coming as well. Bloomberg's Amri Horden is in the golf and has been following the latest on President Donald Trump's visit to the Middle East and joins US now at AMH. The centerpiece of all of this is the deal between two leading or maybe more than two leading American technology companies and their access to markets in the golf.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely, ed. This is really one of the standout pillars of the President's trip, and it's transformational for a lot of these golf countries, which traditionally have relied upon their influence their wealth being from natural resources to now they're thinking about the future, and to have that future, to have data centers, they need to get their hands on advanced semiconductors. And you know, as well as anyone else. Under the Biden administration, and there was frustration with these geopolitical swing states on getting access to those advanced technologies.

Absolutely, ed. This is really one of the standout pillars of the President's trip, and it's transformational for a lot of these golf countries, which traditionally have relied upon their influence their wealth being from natural resources to now they're thinking about the future, and to have that future, to have data centers, they need to get their hands on advanced semiconductors. And you know, as well as anyone else. Under the Biden administration, and there was frustration with these geopolitical swing states on getting access to those advanced technologies.

There was something called the diffusion role.

There was something called the diffusion role.

The Trump administration decided they were going to cancel it. And I actually quickly had a conversation with Jensen Wang last night as he was walking into this honorary dinner with the President in riod and I said, what do you think they rescinded.

The Trump administration decided they were going to cancel it. And I actually quickly had a conversation with Jensen Wang last night as he was walking into this honorary dinner with the President in riod and I said, what do you think they rescinded.

The diffusion role? And he looked at me and said, rescinded, canceled.

The diffusion role? And he looked at me and said, rescinded, canceled.

AMD and VideA are elated about this new marketplace they can come to when it comes to advanced technology. But Ed, you know, there is still this China question that is looming over all of these deals.

AMD and VideA are elated about this new marketplace they can come to when it comes to advanced technology. But Ed, you know, there is still this China question that is looming over all of these deals.

Right the business in the golf, Jensen can take potentially like market opportunity lost in China and make much of it back in the golf based on the research I've seen this morning, the business of geopolitics, those outstanding questions on China and there are more deals to be done between the United States and the nations that the president's visiting. What happens next amh.

Right the business in the golf, Jensen can take potentially like market opportunity lost in China and make much of it back in the golf based on the research I've seen this morning, the business of geopolitics, those outstanding questions on China and there are more deals to be done between the United States and the nations that the president's visiting. What happens next amh.

Yeah, He's going to go to UAE, And we have a report that potentially the UE is going to buy one hundred million of Nvidia's high tech, these advanced semiconductor chips. No surprise in the sense that Sheik Tawnun was in the White House just a few weeks ago and he then left and the UE announced one point four trillion dollar investment they would like to make. But an asterisk a part of that deal, of course, is that to make that kind of investment, they need access to these chips. But ed you talk about Nvidia and this potential new market share they can get in the golf. When I talk about China though, and the conversations that are happening in the region, especially bilateral conversations, and probably some of these conversations still to be had because they're working this out, is that if these countries get access to these chips, how do they make sure the tech does not leak to China. That is still a national security concern that has bipartsed and support in Washington, d C. These golf States want to work with the United States to make sure they can do that. But potentially you can see almost these AI data centers hubs where they're on these lands, whether it's in the United Arab Emirates or whether it's in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But the US, and this is a story I had reporting on, but the US would control the access to that tech. Is they want to make sure that that technology does not get into the hands of Beijing.

Yeah, He's going to go to UAE, And we have a report that potentially the UE is going to buy one hundred million of Nvidia's high tech, these advanced semiconductor chips. No surprise in the sense that Sheik Tawnun was in the White House just a few weeks ago and he then left and the UE announced one point four trillion dollar investment they would like to make. But an asterisk a part of that deal, of course, is that to make that kind of investment, they need access to these chips. But ed you talk about Nvidia and this potential new market share they can get in the golf. When I talk about China though, and the conversations that are happening in the region, especially bilateral conversations, and probably some of these conversations still to be had because they're working this out, is that if these countries get access to these chips, how do they make sure the tech does not leak to China. That is still a national security concern that has bipartsed and support in Washington, d C. These golf States want to work with the United States to make sure they can do that. But potentially you can see almost these AI data centers hubs where they're on these lands, whether it's in the United Arab Emirates or whether it's in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But the US, and this is a story I had reporting on, but the US would control the access to that tech. Is they want to make sure that that technology does not get into the hands of Beijing.

The US controlling access to the technology. Bloomberg Zamorine Hordon in Doha, Kata, thank you very much. Let's pivot from the geopolitics of AI to the investing side and bring in someone who's been involved in the sector for a long time. Constantin Bula specialized in AI machine learning investments.

The US controlling access to the technology. Bloomberg Zamorine Hordon in Doha, Kata, thank you very much. Let's pivot from the geopolitics of AI to the investing side and bring in someone who's been involved in the sector for a long time. Constantin Bula specialized in AI machine learning investments.

He's a partner at Saquoa.

He's a partner at Saquoa.

Capital where last year nearly seventy percent of the startups the firm invested in.

Capital where last year nearly seventy percent of the startups the firm invested in.

Were AI companies.

Were AI companies.

Let's start with just simply your reaction to the AI infrastructure deals of the last twenty four hours. US technology going to the golf and setting up data centers and AI development in that nation.

Let's start with just simply your reaction to the AI infrastructure deals of the last twenty four hours. US technology going to the golf and setting up data centers and AI development in that nation.

Well, thank you, Ered, It's always great to be here, and these new deals are testaments to the fact that AI artificial intelligence is not just a matter of corporate success, it is a matter of national imperative. It is a great sign of the importance of this industry. I think back to a decade ago, and we had concerns about the US staying ahead of AI. There are really four key pillars to AI strength. There's the compute, there's the power, there's the data, and there's the algorithms. Thinking back to that last wave of AI, the reason why the United States has been so far ahead is that fourth pillar, those algorithms. So as we develop new technological allies around the world for compute, for power, for data, it's really important that we stay on the absolute forefront when it comes to algorithmic advancement.

Well, thank you, Ered, It's always great to be here, and these new deals are testaments to the fact that AI artificial intelligence is not just a matter of corporate success, it is a matter of national imperative. It is a great sign of the importance of this industry. I think back to a decade ago, and we had concerns about the US staying ahead of AI. There are really four key pillars to AI strength. There's the compute, there's the power, there's the data, and there's the algorithms. Thinking back to that last wave of AI, the reason why the United States has been so far ahead is that fourth pillar, those algorithms. So as we develop new technological allies around the world for compute, for power, for data, it's really important that we stay on the absolute forefront when it comes to algorithmic advancement.

We have the best researchers in the world. We have the best engineers in the world. Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt.

We have the best researchers in the world. We have the best engineers in the world. Okay, I'm sorry to interrupt.

Seequensanteam with some breaking news crossing the termino from the White House. President Trump has secured one point two trillion dollars in economic commitments in Katar. The Katar commitment is one point two trillion dollars according to the White House. There are economic deals worth two hundred and forty.

Seequensanteam with some breaking news crossing the termino from the White House. President Trump has secured one point two trillion dollars in economic commitments in Katar. The Katar commitment is one point two trillion dollars according to the White House. There are economic deals worth two hundred and forty.

Three zero point five billion.

Three zero point five billion.

This is something the president is announced on the ground in Doha. We were just speaking with Bloomberg's Amri Horden, who is in Doha, Katar, and she noted that this is what's pending. We don't have the specifics in terms of sector, in terms of companies involved, but as we get that, we'll bring it to you. And right now we'll go back to the conversation we were having, which is there is US leadership in the field of AI infrastructure.

This is something the president is announced on the ground in Doha. We were just speaking with Bloomberg's Amri Horden, who is in Doha, Katar, and she noted that this is what's pending. We don't have the specifics in terms of sector, in terms of companies involved, but as we get that, we'll bring it to you. And right now we'll go back to the conversation we were having, which is there is US leadership in the field of AI infrastructure.

You basically break down the four categories.

You basically break down the four categories.

One that is increasingly crossing my desk is AI memory. In the context of agentic AI, this is something that people say, we need to invest in this and solve it. I personally don't have the expertise or academic grounding to understand it. Why is your industry talking about it?

One that is increasingly crossing my desk is AI memory. In the context of agentic AI, this is something that people say, we need to invest in this and solve it. I personally don't have the expertise or academic grounding to understand it. Why is your industry talking about it?

You're exactly right, AD.

You're exactly right, AD.

So there's compute, there's obviously the data, there's obviously the power and the algorithms. But another important component is memory because when you interface with an agent, you wanted to remember you, of course, but it also has to remember itself. Think about a physician, for example, every time they interface with a patient, an agent is going to be able to help them think back to previous interactions, not just what the patient said, not just their vitals, not just data about the patient, but over time, using tools and companies like open Evidence, the physician's going to be able to remember exactly what the interaction was like, how to communicate to the patient, and memory is going to become more and more important.

So there's compute, there's obviously the data, there's obviously the power and the algorithms. But another important component is memory because when you interface with an agent, you wanted to remember you, of course, but it also has to remember itself. Think about a physician, for example, every time they interface with a patient, an agent is going to be able to help them think back to previous interactions, not just what the patient said, not just their vitals, not just data about the patient, but over time, using tools and companies like open Evidence, the physician's going to be able to remember exactly what the interaction was like, how to communicate to the patient, and memory is going to become more and more important.

The question is where does all of this activity take place? Right?

The question is where does all of this activity take place? Right?

The subject to today's Bloomberg Big Take is Deep Seek Right, and the Big Take presents the hypothesis that the company's sudden emergence last month illustrated how China's industry is striving irrespective of US political policy. Jensenmong told me in March, more than fifty percent of AI researchers are in China. When you think about the issues you've outlined, do you agree with that hypothesis presented that China's AI industry is thriving but also looking at the same issues that your industry is looking at H Well, it is true.

The subject to today's Bloomberg Big Take is Deep Seek Right, and the Big Take presents the hypothesis that the company's sudden emergence last month illustrated how China's industry is striving irrespective of US political policy. Jensenmong told me in March, more than fifty percent of AI researchers are in China. When you think about the issues you've outlined, do you agree with that hypothesis presented that China's AI industry is thriving but also looking at the same issues that your industry is looking at H Well, it is true.

That they have amazing researchers there, but it's also true that we have some of the most creative, brilliant researchers on the planet. Here's an example. Just recently, we hosted our annual AI conference, Sequoia AI Assent. We brought together one hundred and fifty of the top minds in the industry. This is everyone from Jensen h Wang and Sam Altman to the young up and comers, and the number one technical topic of the conference was a concept called tool use. Tool use is all about ais working with each other.

That they have amazing researchers there, but it's also true that we have some of the most creative, brilliant researchers on the planet. Here's an example. Just recently, we hosted our annual AI conference, Sequoia AI Assent. We brought together one hundred and fifty of the top minds in the industry. This is everyone from Jensen h Wang and Sam Altman to the young up and comers, and the number one technical topic of the conference was a concept called tool use. Tool use is all about ais working with each other.

We're teaching the computer how to use the computer.

We're teaching the computer how to use the computer.

And there was fortunately a big advancement in our industry over the past few months a new protocol called Model Context Protocol. Think about each AI agent as an expert. Think about every piece of software as an expert. Your CRM is really good at remembering your previous interactions with customers, for example. The issue is that those experts don't necessarily speak the same language. What this new protocol allows is a universal translation mechanism so that all these AI agents and all these softwares can communicate. That is pivotal to us as the United States staying ahead. We have to be working together. I'll give an example of what this protocol could do for us. We have a portfolio company called Rocks. It helps the best sellers do really great research before meeting with a potential buyer. They can not only do that research now they use MCP to connect and actually make a pitch deck directly on the specific needs.

And there was fortunately a big advancement in our industry over the past few months a new protocol called Model Context Protocol. Think about each AI agent as an expert. Think about every piece of software as an expert. Your CRM is really good at remembering your previous interactions with customers, for example. The issue is that those experts don't necessarily speak the same language. What this new protocol allows is a universal translation mechanism so that all these AI agents and all these softwares can communicate. That is pivotal to us as the United States staying ahead. We have to be working together. I'll give an example of what this protocol could do for us. We have a portfolio company called Rocks. It helps the best sellers do really great research before meeting with a potential buyer. They can not only do that research now they use MCP to connect and actually make a pitch deck directly on the specific needs.

Of that user.

Of that user.

They can even plug into cognition or cloud code and write an entire demo. That's how we stay ahead of the curve. An AI collaboration and working together as researchers and engineers.

They can even plug into cognition or cloud code and write an entire demo. That's how we stay ahead of the curve. An AI collaboration and working together as researchers and engineers.

Sequoiapon Team Dealer.

Sequoiapon Team Dealer.

Great to have you back here on Bloomberg Technology, Thank you very much. Now coming up, the sleep fitness startup eight Sleep joins us to discuss its growth strategy and its new product line up by conversations the next This is Bloomberg Technology. Sleep fitness startup eight Sleep is launching an expanded suite of products today. The company makes high tech temperature control mattress covers and systems, and it's also expanding into new markets. While talking up a potential IPO, eight Sleep CEO Mattheo friend Chesketti joins us from New York. This is interesting. In my world, everyone around me tracks the data so carefully, maybe through a wearable and other means.

Great to have you back here on Bloomberg Technology, Thank you very much. Now coming up, the sleep fitness startup eight Sleep joins us to discuss its growth strategy and its new product line up by conversations the next This is Bloomberg Technology. Sleep fitness startup eight Sleep is launching an expanded suite of products today. The company makes high tech temperature control mattress covers and systems, and it's also expanding into new markets. While talking up a potential IPO, eight Sleep CEO Mattheo friend Chesketti joins us from New York. This is interesting. In my world, everyone around me tracks the data so carefully, maybe through a wearable and other means.

In sleep.

In sleep.

Let's start with what's new What is the actual proprietary technology you're offering and how it helps consumer?

Let's start with what's new What is the actual proprietary technology you're offering and how it helps consumer?

Yeah, of course we develop our latest technology, it's called POD five. At eight Sleep, we develop technologies to improve your sleep performance, and POD five is a modular sleep system that controls your body temperature, your elevation, and sound to maximize your sleep. It does everything based on your biometrics, so we're also able to track everything about your sleep and your health in real time, and then we adjust the environment for you to improve your net of sleep.

Yeah, of course we develop our latest technology, it's called POD five. At eight Sleep, we develop technologies to improve your sleep performance, and POD five is a modular sleep system that controls your body temperature, your elevation, and sound to maximize your sleep. It does everything based on your biometrics, so we're also able to track everything about your sleep and your health in real time, and then we adjust the environment for you to improve your net of sleep.

These technologies and products that a consumer can get access to via the health insurance. Are you part of a broader sort of health network or system that to go to market channel for you?

These technologies and products that a consumer can get access to via the health insurance. Are you part of a broader sort of health network or system that to go to market channel for you?

No yet right now we just sell direct to consumers, but it's part of our vision. At the end of the day, we see a future where the POD will be remborsed by insurance companies because we have hard data proving that we can improve your sleep by up to thirty four percent.

No yet right now we just sell direct to consumers, but it's part of our vision. At the end of the day, we see a future where the POD will be remborsed by insurance companies because we have hard data proving that we can improve your sleep by up to thirty four percent.

The reason I ask is you've had incredible growth, right Revenue is ten x since twenty twenty a five year kegre sixty percent and you know those are numbers, but what is it that's driving the growth, like what is it geographically, the demographic of the consumer, the sales channel that's helping you.

The reason I ask is you've had incredible growth, right Revenue is ten x since twenty twenty a five year kegre sixty percent and you know those are numbers, but what is it that's driving the growth, like what is it geographically, the demographic of the consumer, the sales channel that's helping you.

Well, First of all, I think our results. People really love the product and they see the benefits. Some of our customers sometimes they also use wearables and they can see the difference in their own wearables of when they use the pod or when they don't. But what is really driving our growth, which is connected to this is world of mouth. A very large part of our revenue is just because our customers recommend the product to other people. At the same time, we keep expanding. We're right now in thirty countries and we expect to open Asia by the end of the year.

Well, First of all, I think our results. People really love the product and they see the benefits. Some of our customers sometimes they also use wearables and they can see the difference in their own wearables of when they use the pod or when they don't. But what is really driving our growth, which is connected to this is world of mouth. A very large part of our revenue is just because our customers recommend the product to other people. At the same time, we keep expanding. We're right now in thirty countries and we expect to open Asia by the end of the year.

I think you're also looking at Saudi Arabia given the news of the last twenty four hours.

I think you're also looking at Saudi Arabia given the news of the last twenty four hours.

How did that come about?

How did that come about?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Right, We were so lucky. We didn't know obviously about that, and we are announcing Saudia Rabio today, which we expect to be a very large market. We were already in UAE and the fact that the president and so many other key CEOs are there is amazing.

Right, We were so lucky. We didn't know obviously about that, and we are announcing Saudia Rabio today, which we expect to be a very large market. We were already in UAE and the fact that the president and so many other key CEOs are there is amazing.

You're also evaluating China. How realistic is it from a market perspective at the end user? But also supply chain for you to go into that market.

You're also evaluating China. How realistic is it from a market perspective at the end user? But also supply chain for you to go into that market.

Yeah, we expect to launch in China by the end of the year. Is a market that we know really well. We have been manufacturing in China since twenty fourteen when I moved there to really kick off the manufacturing of eight slip, and we expect to start selling in that market. As I said before the end of the year in Q one of the latest, will.

Yeah, we expect to launch in China by the end of the year. Is a market that we know really well. We have been manufacturing in China since twenty fourteen when I moved there to really kick off the manufacturing of eight slip, and we expect to start selling in that market. As I said before the end of the year in Q one of the latest, will.

You support your growth with an IPO mateo?

You support your growth with an IPO mateo?

I think as part of our strategy absolutely. I think great hartwore companies like Tesla and Apple, they all went public fairly early. I think it will give us a discipline and it will also prove that we are here to stay. We are very ambitious about what we can do for humanity to improve their health and their sleep materia.

I think as part of our strategy absolutely. I think great hartwore companies like Tesla and Apple, they all went public fairly early. I think it will give us a discipline and it will also prove that we are here to stay. We are very ambitious about what we can do for humanity to improve their health and their sleep materia.

We're running short on time, but whatever you want to get to is your core competencies. Have you got brilliant software engineers, brilliant hardware engineers.

We're running short on time, but whatever you want to get to is your core competencies. Have you got brilliant software engineers, brilliant hardware engineers.

What is your biggest advantage?

What is your biggest advantage?

I mean is really I right, all our engineers, they come from the biggest companies in the world. In terms of AI. We really apply AI and hardcore technologies to your sleep and your health I think there is no other company in the world improving your sleep in the way we do with software technology ANDII and.

I mean is really I right, all our engineers, they come from the biggest companies in the world. In terms of AI. We really apply AI and hardcore technologies to your sleep and your health I think there is no other company in the world improving your sleep in the way we do with software technology ANDII and.

Out Mateo FRANCISCTTI, CEO of Eights Sleep. Great to have you here on Bloomberg Technology.

Out Mateo FRANCISCTTI, CEO of Eights Sleep. Great to have you here on Bloomberg Technology.

Thank you.

Thank you.

A ban on supersonic commercial flights over US Land could soon be history. Bipartisan group of lawmakers are looking to lift restrictions over civil jets flying over land at supersonic speeds, potentially opening the skies to a new era of high speed travel. At the center of that effort is Boom Supersonic, which is developing the next generation of supersonic jets. Joining us now is Boom CEO Blake shol And. Look, this legislative pathway is absolutely critical to whether or not you're going to be able to achieve what you want to achieve. What is the path from here and will it happen? Because without the legislation, you can't get your business off the ground.

A ban on supersonic commercial flights over US Land could soon be history. Bipartisan group of lawmakers are looking to lift restrictions over civil jets flying over land at supersonic speeds, potentially opening the skies to a new era of high speed travel. At the center of that effort is Boom Supersonic, which is developing the next generation of supersonic jets. Joining us now is Boom CEO Blake shol And. Look, this legislative pathway is absolutely critical to whether or not you're going to be able to achieve what you want to achieve. What is the path from here and will it happen? Because without the legislation, you can't get your business off the ground.

Pardon the pun.

Pardon the pun.

Yeah, Well, hey, good morning, Ed, thanks for having me.

Yeah, Well, hey, good morning, Ed, thanks for having me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, we've had one of the dumbest regulations ever in aviation. In nineteen seventy three, we put a speed limit in place over land and what that means is we can fly supersonic from the US to Europe or from US to Asia, but we can't fly supersonic right here in the US. And with our test flights in January and February, we prove we can fly supersonic with no audible sonic boom. And I think this is just common sense. If we can fly coast to coast supersonic without any sonic boom that anybody hears in the ground, obviously that should be allowed.

No, we've had one of the dumbest regulations ever in aviation. In nineteen seventy three, we put a speed limit in place over land and what that means is we can fly supersonic from the US to Europe or from US to Asia, but we can't fly supersonic right here in the US. And with our test flights in January and February, we prove we can fly supersonic with no audible sonic boom. And I think this is just common sense. If we can fly coast to coast supersonic without any sonic boom that anybody hears in the ground, obviously that should be allowed.

The big political point here for those laws is that your competitors pursuing this field on the technology side are in China, are they not?

The big political point here for those laws is that your competitors pursuing this field on the technology side are in China, are they not?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I think you know, we really are watching a slow motion train crash here right now. China is shipping a seven thirty seven Clone. They're working on a Boeing seven eighty seven Clone. Boeing has not made an all new airliner in over twenty years now, and China announced earlier this year they've entered the supersonic race. We still have the opportunity to maintain American leadership in aviation, but we've got to get out of our own way. We've got to cut the red tape that's been holding back progress in flight for fifty two years, Blake.

I think you know, we really are watching a slow motion train crash here right now. China is shipping a seven thirty seven Clone. They're working on a Boeing seven eighty seven Clone. Boeing has not made an all new airliner in over twenty years now, and China announced earlier this year they've entered the supersonic race. We still have the opportunity to maintain American leadership in aviation, but we've got to get out of our own way. We've got to cut the red tape that's been holding back progress in flight for fifty two years, Blake.

This administration, the Trump administration has been quite engaged in the field of autonomous driving in ev toll for example, have you spoken with Transport Secretary Duffy or indeed met with the President to discuss America's efforts in supersonic The.

This administration, the Trump administration has been quite engaged in the field of autonomous driving in ev toll for example, have you spoken with Transport Secretary Duffy or indeed met with the President to discuss America's efforts in supersonic The.

President has a model of the overture airliner that I think he keeps outside of the Oval Office. We've had great conversation with multiple cabinet members, including Secretary Duffy. It's really hard to find anybody who wants to continue to hold flight back. And now that we've proven that we can have supersonic flights to an audible boom, Really, this is something that I think everybody can be behind.

President has a model of the overture airliner that I think he keeps outside of the Oval Office. We've had great conversation with multiple cabinet members, including Secretary Duffy. It's really hard to find anybody who wants to continue to hold flight back. And now that we've proven that we can have supersonic flights to an audible boom, Really, this is something that I think everybody can be behind.

Your technology is in the design of the wings, but mostly in this engine. Right where are you at in agreements to build the plane the engine at commercial scale?

Your technology is in the design of the wings, but mostly in this engine. Right where are you at in agreements to build the plane the engine at commercial scale?

You know, the surprising thing about boomless cruise is actually a software fix. It's not about the wings or the engine exactly. It's actually about how you fly the airplane such the boom never reaches the ground. And that's a software innovation that's actually pretty easy to deploy.

You know, the surprising thing about boomless cruise is actually a software fix. It's not about the wings or the engine exactly. It's actually about how you fly the airplane such the boom never reaches the ground. And that's a software innovation that's actually pretty easy to deploy.

And as we speak today, we.

And as we speak today, we.

Prove when we can build a supersonic jet. With the XB one, we're building the first full scale symphony engine. That's the first independently developed supersonic jet engine. It's going to be running on a test stand around the end of the year, and we're looking forward to start building the first airliner on our factory in North Carolina next year.

Prove when we can build a supersonic jet. With the XB one, we're building the first full scale symphony engine. That's the first independently developed supersonic jet engine. It's going to be running on a test stand around the end of the year, and we're looking forward to start building the first airliner on our factory in North Carolina next year.

What I recognize in some an now I guess fields like ev Toll, for example, is a pivot or shift away from consumer passenger model to looking at defense applications. Is that in Boom Supersonic's future, Blake.

What I recognize in some an now I guess fields like ev Toll, for example, is a pivot or shift away from consumer passenger model to looking at defense applications. Is that in Boom Supersonic's future, Blake.

Well, the factory that we're building, all the infrastructure are building. You know, if if worse came to worse in wartime, we could pivot from building civil products to building defense products. I think that's an important sort of rebirth in the defense industrial base. However, the most important thing, you know, I think we could do for the US government has provide fashion transportation for the most important people. We'd love to replace the rusty old seven fifty sevens and seven forty sevens that carry around our VIPs today with airplanes that could help them arrive in half the time.