Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up, Salesforce will acquire Informatica for eight billion dollars, one of the biggest ever deals with the company for the next phase to they I driven.

Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up, Salesforce will acquire Informatica for eight billion dollars, one of the biggest ever deals with the company for the next phase to they I driven.

Growth plus Apple shares coming off their longest selloff in more than three years.

Growth plus Apple shares coming off their longest selloff in more than three years.

Is attacks from the White House escalate.

Is attacks from the White House escalate.

And Elon Musk turns his attention back to his rocket company SpaceX and will lay out his vision to all in an ex line stream later today. But first we check it on the markets. Ed, we're a kind of rocketing higher on this space as well. We're currently up one point eight percent, let's call it on the NASA one hundred. You're seeing strength as consumer sentiment manages to show some encouragement as we see maybe encouragement when it comes to US and European trade talks. And it's game on after what was a down week last week. But you'll look at some of the biggest movers in the index.

And Elon Musk turns his attention back to his rocket company SpaceX and will lay out his vision to all in an ex line stream later today. But first we check it on the markets. Ed, we're a kind of rocketing higher on this space as well. We're currently up one point eight percent, let's call it on the NASA one hundred. You're seeing strength as consumer sentiment manages to show some encouragement as we see maybe encouragement when it comes to US and European trade talks. And it's game on after what was a down week last week. But you'll look at some of the biggest movers in the index.

Yeah, we have a deal, and that deal is between Salesforce and the cloud data management platform, Informatica, eight billion dollar deal.

Yeah, we have a deal, and that deal is between Salesforce and the cloud data management platform, Informatica, eight billion dollar deal.

As you said, twenty five.

As you said, twenty five.

Dollars per share going to Informatica and Salesforce saying that they're going to use a combination of cash and some debt to finance the deal.

Dollars per share going to Informatica and Salesforce saying that they're going to use a combination of cash and some debt to finance the deal.

But this is kind of interesting. It's a second bite of the apple.

But this is kind of interesting. It's a second bite of the apple.

Informatica now twenty three dollars eighty cents in the session, confirmation of earlier Bloomberg reporting. A lot more to learn about what happened, not just in the last few days, but in the last year exactly.

Informatica now twenty three dollars eighty cents in the session, confirmation of earlier Bloomberg reporting. A lot more to learn about what happened, not just in the last few days, but in the last year exactly.

And let's get to someone who helped break this scube on Friday, Leanna Baker. It was a Friday story when it comes to this round of.

And let's get to someone who helped break this scube on Friday, Leanna Baker. It was a Friday story when it comes to this round of.

Em and a.

Em and a.

But of course Salesforce had I di Informatica a year ago.

But of course Salesforce had I di Informatica a year ago.

We've been tracking it also since the deal fell apart. But once you have a deal, you know, get scuttled and not happen. You have to be really sure that it's going to happen. So late Friday we heard that this could be coming, you know, as early as this week, and we sort of went for it here and we were trying to understand what a change for Salesforce. Well, for sure, what's changed is that they're paying two billion dollars less than they were a year ago, So they definitely look smart in that respect.

We've been tracking it also since the deal fell apart. But once you have a deal, you know, get scuttled and not happen. You have to be really sure that it's going to happen. So late Friday we heard that this could be coming, you know, as early as this week, and we sort of went for it here and we were trying to understand what a change for Salesforce. Well, for sure, what's changed is that they're paying two billion dollars less than they were a year ago, So they definitely look smart in that respect.

Right a year ago informatic Well, what changed for Informatica is it shares were above thirty dollars a year ago.

Right a year ago informatic Well, what changed for Informatica is it shares were above thirty dollars a year ago.

And when we broke the.

And when we broke the.

Story Friday, I think it was somewhere around twenty dollars or so. How Salesforce is funding this, the sort of mechanics of the deal, Salesforce's history of EM and A, how much of this was surprising to the team.

Story Friday, I think it was somewhere around twenty dollars or so. How Salesforce is funding this, the sort of mechanics of the deal, Salesforce's history of EM and A, how much of this was surprising to the team.

So Salesforce is sort of a juggernau An M and A. They came in the crosshairs of activists investors a few years ago. Both of you covered that really closely, where Benioff's A position strategy was under the spotlight. So he sort of took a breather for a few years, and here he's back in a big way with this eight billion dollar acquisition. You might recall in the fall we broke another story Salesforce pot Own, which is a smaller deal at one point nine billion. So Salesforce still has been doing deals, but you know, this is the largest in a while. Historically Slacked was larger, and they also did Tableau software many years ago. So this is a company that just loves inorganic growth and it's back on track in terms of getting those deals.

So Salesforce is sort of a juggernau An M and A. They came in the crosshairs of activists investors a few years ago. Both of you covered that really closely, where Benioff's A position strategy was under the spotlight. So he sort of took a breather for a few years, and here he's back in a big way with this eight billion dollar acquisition. You might recall in the fall we broke another story Salesforce pot Own, which is a smaller deal at one point nine billion. So Salesforce still has been doing deals, but you know, this is the largest in a while. Historically Slacked was larger, and they also did Tableau software many years ago. So this is a company that just loves inorganic growth and it's back on track in terms of getting those deals.

I mean they also bought MuleSoft, which of course actually competes with Informatica. So how is the regulatory process going to look?

I mean they also bought MuleSoft, which of course actually competes with Informatica. So how is the regulatory process going to look?

So analysts are watching this overlap between the companies. It'll definitely be a test to see how Salesforce and Marke betting off or maybe viewed under this administration. So we'll be tracking that closely. But for what we understand, they got this deal done. It didn't stop them from getting it announced, and we'll see what comes next.

So analysts are watching this overlap between the companies. It'll definitely be a test to see how Salesforce and Marke betting off or maybe viewed under this administration. So we'll be tracking that closely. But for what we understand, they got this deal done. It didn't stop them from getting it announced, and we'll see what comes next.

Bloombergsianna Baker, who leads our deal's team, Thank you very much. It's get some markets reaction and a head of market analysis at RBC bre In Dolphin. It's an interesting headline, right, Janet, we have some M and A in the software space just as a moment in time. How do you see that playing out more broadly for SaaS and software corners of the tech market.

Bloombergsianna Baker, who leads our deal's team, Thank you very much. It's get some markets reaction and a head of market analysis at RBC bre In Dolphin. It's an interesting headline, right, Janet, we have some M and A in the software space just as a moment in time. How do you see that playing out more broadly for SaaS and software corners of the tech market.

Hi Ed thanks for having me. I think that's very exciting.

Hi Ed thanks for having me. I think that's very exciting.

I think AI is still driving a lot of these excitement and what we are looking is that there's some more consolidation in the industry.

I think AI is still driving a lot of these excitement and what we are looking is that there's some more consolidation in the industry.

I think our companies want to deepen.

I think our companies want to deepen.

And strengthen their capability in AI driven growth in our data analytics and CRR management, and also developing further in the cloud. So I guess this is a very exciting and sort of builds up further the case for that long term AI investment.

And strengthen their capability in AI driven growth in our data analytics and CRR management, and also developing further in the cloud. So I guess this is a very exciting and sort of builds up further the case for that long term AI investment.

I'm just looking at shares of Nvidia. They're up now three percent in the session. The macro event of the week, the macro event, it's probably in Video's earnings after the market closed on Wednesday night on your desk for your clients in your world. Is it a macro level event something like in video earnings.

I'm just looking at shares of Nvidia. They're up now three percent in the session. The macro event of the week, the macro event, it's probably in Video's earnings after the market closed on Wednesday night on your desk for your clients in your world. Is it a macro level event something like in video earnings.

Yeah, definitely. I think everyone is very excited about it. I think what we'll be looking at is definitely the profit margins. It is getting harder and harder to defend, and also, of course the rampop of Blackwell and how the servers data services are basically digesting the inventores and also sovereign AI.

Yeah, definitely. I think everyone is very excited about it. I think what we'll be looking at is definitely the profit margins. It is getting harder and harder to defend, and also, of course the rampop of Blackwell and how the servers data services are basically digesting the inventores and also sovereign AI.

I think that's a very important tailwind.

I think that's a very important tailwind.

For Nvidia in the future, and I think, of course commentaries on the geopolitic situation sells to China and things like that.

For Nvidia in the future, and I think, of course commentaries on the geopolitic situation sells to China and things like that.

And also I think.

And also I think.

In general, I think the valuations of Nvidia is not demanding at all.

In general, I think the valuations of Nvidia is not demanding at all.

It's only twenty five times for earnings.

It's only twenty five times for earnings.

But I think I guess the market is still having doubts on the digestion of those AI chips, given that the hyperscalers have already spent hundreds billions of dollars and how much of that sovereign AI and stargate is going to compensate for that, And I think we're still in this digestion phase. So it'll be very interesting to hear how the executives are going to comment on that.

But I think I guess the market is still having doubts on the digestion of those AI chips, given that the hyperscalers have already spent hundreds billions of dollars and how much of that sovereign AI and stargate is going to compensate for that, And I think we're still in this digestion phase. So it'll be very interesting to hear how the executives are going to comment on that.

So do you need to hear that bullishness, that ultimate demand being pushed forward and really enthusiastic guidance coming from Jensen to build around the AI theme once again outweighing what has been geopolitics that weighs down on some of these hardware names.

So do you need to hear that bullishness, that ultimate demand being pushed forward and really enthusiastic guidance coming from Jensen to build around the AI theme once again outweighing what has been geopolitics that weighs down on some of these hardware names.

I think, so, I think we actually need to see a pretty bullish guidance. The problem is that the stock has risen I think about forty percent since slow and to get even high to break the previous high. I think we need more good deals. And as I said, there's still a lot of concerns on geopolitics. I mean President Trump has canceled that aidefield and rule, but for sure if something else is coming. So I guess there's still a lot of concern on the competitive landscape. China is very close behind, you know. I guess we need a lot of good news for the share prices to power ahead.

I think, so, I think we actually need to see a pretty bullish guidance. The problem is that the stock has risen I think about forty percent since slow and to get even high to break the previous high. I think we need more good deals. And as I said, there's still a lot of concerns on geopolitics. I mean President Trump has canceled that aidefield and rule, but for sure if something else is coming. So I guess there's still a lot of concern on the competitive landscape. China is very close behind, you know. I guess we need a lot of good news for the share prices to power ahead.

And just take stock for a moment of the on flought of headwinds we've had from a geopolitical nature. We're about to dig into Apple. Of course the tariff anxiety there, but also the tip for tap that might come back if Europe does indeed have its eye on big tech in terms of yet more digital services taxes. Ways to respond, Janet, how hard is it to invest in big tech big US names at the moment?

And just take stock for a moment of the on flought of headwinds we've had from a geopolitical nature. We're about to dig into Apple. Of course the tariff anxiety there, but also the tip for tap that might come back if Europe does indeed have its eye on big tech in terms of yet more digital services taxes. Ways to respond, Janet, how hard is it to invest in big tech big US names at the moment?

To be honest, I think the long term story is intact.

To be honest, I think the long term story is intact.

I think these are great growth compounders that I don't think people are doubtful of their potential and their long term growth. But the problem is that in near term there's still so much uncertainty on a tariff and I think even if the tariffs are scaling back or pause or whatever, I think at the end of the day, some of these big tech companies that are highly linked in the supply chains will still see some erosion in.

I think these are great growth compounders that I don't think people are doubtful of their potential and their long term growth. But the problem is that in near term there's still so much uncertainty on a tariff and I think even if the tariffs are scaling back or pause or whatever, I think at the end of the day, some of these big tech companies that are highly linked in the supply chains will still see some erosion in.

Their profit margin. Right, So I guess that's the concern.

Their profit margin. Right, So I guess that's the concern.

And the thing is they're already very big and it is very hard to grow at such a fast pace going forward. So I guess given the valuations have come back up again after the recent valley, I guess investors are going to be back in a more cautious mode going forward.

And the thing is they're already very big and it is very hard to grow at such a fast pace going forward. So I guess given the valuations have come back up again after the recent valley, I guess investors are going to be back in a more cautious mode going forward.

We need more good news. We need our trade US.

We need more good news. We need our trade US.

We will need more AI good news, we need more better economic.

We will need more AI good news, we need more better economic.

Data from the US and lower inflation.

Data from the US and lower inflation.

For example, Janet, is there a corner of the technology sector that's underappreciated by the market.

For example, Janet, is there a corner of the technology sector that's underappreciated by the market.

I think, I mean for US.

I think, I mean for US.

Right, we are more enthusiastic on the AI pets and shovels play. But as I said, I think the recent rally has moved back up some of those valuations. I think software remains a good place to be given that it is arguably less impacted by tariff and I think there's still a lot of innovation going on. I think I think some of the share price movement in big tech companies, for example, Apple has been quite negative, and I think obviously it is impacted by geopolitics and tariffs, but I guess investors are also looking for some new innovation, new products, pipelines and things like that, like new features on AI.

Right, we are more enthusiastic on the AI pets and shovels play. But as I said, I think the recent rally has moved back up some of those valuations. I think software remains a good place to be given that it is arguably less impacted by tariff and I think there's still a lot of innovation going on. I think I think some of the share price movement in big tech companies, for example, Apple has been quite negative, and I think obviously it is impacted by geopolitics and tariffs, but I guess investors are also looking for some new innovation, new products, pipelines and things like that, like new features on AI.

I think in April were able to deliver that.

I think in April were able to deliver that.

I think that can offset some of that worries and may potentially recover from the recent negative share price reaction.

I think that can offset some of that worries and may potentially recover from the recent negative share price reaction.

We're going to be digging into that, but a moment, a little bit more on Apple January. Obviously, Ruandolphin head a market analysis thank you coming up, as they say, well after a list getting a bit of a reprieve after its longest sell off we've seen in more than three years. But Trump's tas threats could introduce more volatility. I can discuss that in a moment. But ed, we've got some breaking news on moving Trump Media.

We're going to be digging into that, but a moment, a little bit more on Apple January. Obviously, Ruandolphin head a market analysis thank you coming up, as they say, well after a list getting a bit of a reprieve after its longest sell off we've seen in more than three years. But Trump's tas threats could introduce more volatility. I can discuss that in a moment. But ed, we've got some breaking news on moving Trump Media.

Yeah, did you see DJT, the parent company of Truth Social. So the stocks down more than nine percent the news it's a pretty simple story. Trump Media is going to raise two and a half billion US dollars in capital to buy bitcoin.

Yeah, did you see DJT, the parent company of Truth Social. So the stocks down more than nine percent the news it's a pretty simple story. Trump Media is going to raise two and a half billion US dollars in capital to buy bitcoin.

There was some tropy trading I think.

There was some tropy trading I think.

We opened markedly higher, we are now very much down more than nine percent.

We opened markedly higher, we are now very much down more than nine percent.

We'll continue to track that story.

We'll continue to track that story.

Carro.

Carro.

This is plumbag technology. Take a look at shares of Apple, the tech giant finally in the green after eight straight days of losses. Still, Apple remains the mag seven's worst performing stock in twenty twenty five, having fallen twenty one percent so far.

This is plumbag technology. Take a look at shares of Apple, the tech giant finally in the green after eight straight days of losses. Still, Apple remains the mag seven's worst performing stock in twenty twenty five, having fallen twenty one percent so far.

Yeah, todate Bluembos.

Yeah, todate Bluembos.

Ryan for Seneca writes today the iPhone maker faces still more pain, and he joins us. Now, Ryan, where is that pain coming from from the stalks perspective?

Ryan for Seneca writes today the iPhone maker faces still more pain, and he joins us. Now, Ryan, where is that pain coming from from the stalks perspective?

Hey, thanks for having me on so obviously, last week we got the surprise announcement about tariffs specifically on Apple if it doesn't bring its manufacturing to the United States. This was later expanded to include all smartphone makers. But I think just the level of political uncertainty remains extremely elevated for Apple. Obviously, we saw so much volatility following the initial tariff announcement in April.

Hey, thanks for having me on so obviously, last week we got the surprise announcement about tariffs specifically on Apple if it doesn't bring its manufacturing to the United States. This was later expanded to include all smartphone makers. But I think just the level of political uncertainty remains extremely elevated for Apple. Obviously, we saw so much volatility following the initial tariff announcement in April.

There was then, you know.

There was then, you know.

Exemptions provided for a certain electronics category, a sort of a pause.

Exemptions provided for a certain electronics category, a sort of a pause.

With respect to China.

With respect to China.

We saw another tariffs against the European Union, which were also paused. So just the back and forth really has investors and analysts struggling to kind of figure out what is the impact that Apple going to be, how do they navigate this kind of environment, and what is going to be the sort of knock on effects with respects to its earnings, its margins, with the demand, with pricing. Still a lot of very fundamental questions surrounding the company right now.

We saw another tariffs against the European Union, which were also paused. So just the back and forth really has investors and analysts struggling to kind of figure out what is the impact that Apple going to be, how do they navigate this kind of environment, and what is going to be the sort of knock on effects with respects to its earnings, its margins, with the demand, with pricing. Still a lot of very fundamental questions surrounding the company right now.

What's so interesting is we had Gil Luria on the show last week really talking from DA Davison Analysis, saying it's surprised at how poorly Tim Cook seems to be navigating this on a political perspective, but also there's so many other headwinds that are boveting the company right now.

What's so interesting is we had Gil Luria on the show last week really talking from DA Davison Analysis, saying it's surprised at how poorly Tim Cook seems to be navigating this on a political perspective, but also there's so many other headwinds that are boveting the company right now.

Yeah, absolutely so.

Yeah, absolutely so.

They've already been struggling with their AI offerings. Growth has been pretty tepid, especially world up to other megacap companies for quite some time. The multiple remains sort of at the higher end of things. There are a lot of issues that have investors kind of looking around and saying, if you're going to buy a big tech company, what is really the argument for owning Apple over other ones that offer stronger growth or all over multiple or a stronger AI position. Or they don't come with this kind of political risk. So certainly all the sort of headwinds are stacked up against Apple in a way that they are not for the other megacap tech stocks.

They've already been struggling with their AI offerings. Growth has been pretty tepid, especially world up to other megacap companies for quite some time. The multiple remains sort of at the higher end of things. There are a lot of issues that have investors kind of looking around and saying, if you're going to buy a big tech company, what is really the argument for owning Apple over other ones that offer stronger growth or all over multiple or a stronger AI position. Or they don't come with this kind of political risk. So certainly all the sort of headwinds are stacked up against Apple in a way that they are not for the other megacap tech stocks.

Set the scene for US then year to date for the mag seven Apples down twenty one percent. But what does the rest of the field look like you cover each of these names.

Set the scene for US then year to date for the mag seven Apples down twenty one percent. But what does the rest of the field look like you cover each of these names.

Other names are doing pretty well.

Other names are doing pretty well.

There's been obviously a great deal of volatility, but some names have recently broken back into the green for the year. I mean, I think a lot of these companies continue to have a lot of really you know, adamant supporters. They are still well liked on Wall Street. The most recent earning season showed pretty durable growth trends. A lot of them deal in market positions that don't have too much tariff impact, like software or just internet services, online advertising. You know, there's some sort of second derivative move if you consider the impact to just economic growth and so forth. But otherwise the names are doing pretty well. Apple is really an outlier here, and the only one that's pretty close to it is Tesla, although I think I checked this morning and that stock is down about thirteen percent or so. This year, so the degree to which that one is even lacking is far lower.

There's been obviously a great deal of volatility, but some names have recently broken back into the green for the year. I mean, I think a lot of these companies continue to have a lot of really you know, adamant supporters. They are still well liked on Wall Street. The most recent earning season showed pretty durable growth trends. A lot of them deal in market positions that don't have too much tariff impact, like software or just internet services, online advertising. You know, there's some sort of second derivative move if you consider the impact to just economic growth and so forth. But otherwise the names are doing pretty well. Apple is really an outlier here, and the only one that's pretty close to it is Tesla, although I think I checked this morning and that stock is down about thirteen percent or so. This year, so the degree to which that one is even lacking is far lower.

Ran, Sorry, Ran Plastelica, It's great to have you. Or is some really well read stories, We appreciate it. Let's just go back to the nuts and bolts of the Apple story with Karenina and Anasy just create a strategies president and principle analyst and going back to well the torrent of truth social posts that were out on Friday first focused on Apple, but then spreading their way. It would feel from Trump that all foreign made smartphones would potentially be looking at a twenty five percent tariff, does happen in some way end up having an edge in that.

Ran, Sorry, Ran Plastelica, It's great to have you. Or is some really well read stories, We appreciate it. Let's just go back to the nuts and bolts of the Apple story with Karenina and Anasy just create a strategies president and principle analyst and going back to well the torrent of truth social posts that were out on Friday first focused on Apple, but then spreading their way. It would feel from Trump that all foreign made smartphones would potentially be looking at a twenty five percent tariff, does happen in some way end up having an edge in that.

You know, the phone is still the most valued device that consumers are caring and so hitting on smartphones when initially Trumpets said that they were going to be exempt, is going to be you know, hard for everybody. If you're looking at the US market, Samsung and Apple are dominating the market and so having tariffs apply to Samsung as well, who will have limited availability to make devices here in the US, is going to be hard for Apple. Is all about juggling the short term and the longer term prospect, trying to balance not upsetting the president for above say, time, not upsetting China either because it's a big market for them as well.

You know, the phone is still the most valued device that consumers are caring and so hitting on smartphones when initially Trumpets said that they were going to be exempt, is going to be you know, hard for everybody. If you're looking at the US market, Samsung and Apple are dominating the market and so having tariffs apply to Samsung as well, who will have limited availability to make devices here in the US, is going to be hard for Apple. Is all about juggling the short term and the longer term prospect, trying to balance not upsetting the president for above say, time, not upsetting China either because it's a big market for them as well.

And India where they've been shifting manufacturing currently. Not What does Tim Cook do to satisfy all players right now?

And India where they've been shifting manufacturing currently. Not What does Tim Cook do to satisfy all players right now?

I think buying time is probably his best option, and so making whatever promise he can make of investing in the US. Obviously, if you're thinking about repositioning the production here in the US, we're talking way further than the term that term is going to be serving, and so buying time for the next two to three years might be all that is needed for now.

I think buying time is probably his best option, and so making whatever promise he can make of investing in the US. Obviously, if you're thinking about repositioning the production here in the US, we're talking way further than the term that term is going to be serving, and so buying time for the next two to three years might be all that is needed for now.

The way that Tim could it Tim Cook put it in twenty seventeen, I think it was on stage with Fortune magazine, is that in China you could fill a football stadium with specialist tooling engineers, and in America you couldn't fill a room, a meeting room with that same level of skill set. You know all about vertical integration and how the iPhone is assembled and all different hands that touch one handset. Just try and help our audience understand what it would mean not to move an iPhone factory to America, but everything else that comes with it.

The way that Tim could it Tim Cook put it in twenty seventeen, I think it was on stage with Fortune magazine, is that in China you could fill a football stadium with specialist tooling engineers, and in America you couldn't fill a room, a meeting room with that same level of skill set. You know all about vertical integration and how the iPhone is assembled and all different hands that touch one handset. Just try and help our audience understand what it would mean not to move an iPhone factory to America, but everything else that comes with it.

That is what is impossible to do. I mean moving the supply chain and then food production here is really impossible unless you're willing to invest, and not just from an Apple perspective, but from a government perspective. You know, billions of dollars in replicating this and investing ten plus years to do so. I think what you can aspire to do is, you know, an assembled in America the same way as you have designed in Cupertino on the back of a device. That is the short term hope. You know, everything else is really more a fairy tale.

That is what is impossible to do. I mean moving the supply chain and then food production here is really impossible unless you're willing to invest, and not just from an Apple perspective, but from a government perspective. You know, billions of dollars in replicating this and investing ten plus years to do so. I think what you can aspire to do is, you know, an assembled in America the same way as you have designed in Cupertino on the back of a device. That is the short term hope. You know, everything else is really more a fairy tale.

Apple shares fell last week when a headline crossed the Bloomberg terminal the Open AI was buying Johnny Ives hardware startup io for six point five billion dollars to make a suite of devices.

Apple shares fell last week when a headline crossed the Bloomberg terminal the Open AI was buying Johnny Ives hardware startup io for six point five billion dollars to make a suite of devices.

Your action, please, Carolina Milanacy.

Your action, please, Carolina Milanacy.

You know that is definitely pressure that right now Apple could do without. You know, they have Apple Vision pro very successful in enterprise from an interest perspective, not necessarily a volume perspective, but hasn't really hit consumers for a range of things from the price point to the ecosystem. So hearing you know somebody that has worked for Apple so closely and maybe didn't leave on best terms coming with open AI. So you're bringing together daisore point for Apple right now with Apple Intelligence plus a competition from a glass or you know, some kind of XRAR play. Definitely not a good moment for Apple.

You know that is definitely pressure that right now Apple could do without. You know, they have Apple Vision pro very successful in enterprise from an interest perspective, not necessarily a volume perspective, but hasn't really hit consumers for a range of things from the price point to the ecosystem. So hearing you know somebody that has worked for Apple so closely and maybe didn't leave on best terms coming with open AI. So you're bringing together daisore point for Apple right now with Apple Intelligence plus a competition from a glass or you know, some kind of XRAR play. Definitely not a good moment for Apple.

Not a good moment, but only for cell ratings. On the stock, it's still very close to a three trillion dollar company. Can they swiftly turn things around? Nay, we galvanized growth here, Carolina.

Not a good moment, but only for cell ratings. On the stock, it's still very close to a three trillion dollar company. Can they swiftly turn things around? Nay, we galvanized growth here, Carolina.

I do think that we are going to have some of the answer in a couple of weeks at WDC, when we're going to see possibly like Mark German was reporting a redesign from an OS perspective Beth for iPhone, watch a Mac, but also hearing awfully some improvement on the or some development on the Apple intelligence part. I think ultimately Apple is still from a vendor perspective, from a consumer point of view, the one that has the strongest ecosystem and that can tie in consumers both from a services perspective and hardware. And I think that the point that is getting people scratching their heads right now is how long it's been taken from an Apple intelligence perspective. But I still believe that ultimately are they have all the pieces that can come together to really continue to develop their ecosystem wrong way and police of their customers curly.

I do think that we are going to have some of the answer in a couple of weeks at WDC, when we're going to see possibly like Mark German was reporting a redesign from an OS perspective Beth for iPhone, watch a Mac, but also hearing awfully some improvement on the or some development on the Apple intelligence part. I think ultimately Apple is still from a vendor perspective, from a consumer point of view, the one that has the strongest ecosystem and that can tie in consumers both from a services perspective and hardware. And I think that the point that is getting people scratching their heads right now is how long it's been taken from an Apple intelligence perspective. But I still believe that ultimately are they have all the pieces that can come together to really continue to develop their ecosystem wrong way and police of their customers curly.

In a millienacy of creative strategy. It's great to have you back here on Bloomberg Technology. Thank you know. Coming up, Mark.

In a millienacy of creative strategy. It's great to have you back here on Bloomberg Technology. Thank you know. Coming up, Mark.

Zuckerberg's effort to get close with President Trump have given him direct access to the White House.

Zuckerberg's effort to get close with President Trump have given him direct access to the White House.

But what's that actually done for his company? We have more on that next. This is Bloomberg Technology.

But what's that actually done for his company? We have more on that next. This is Bloomberg Technology.

Mark Zuckerberg's efforts to win over Maga World have brought the Meta CEO close to the President Trump and his administration, But according to the latest Bloomberg Big Take, Zark's efforts have yet to bear significant fruit for the social media company. Joining us with more is Bloomberg's Riley Griffin, one of the authors of that big Take. It's so deeply reported and it's to look at how Mark Zuckerberg has almost like changed himself over a period of time to kind of align with this administration. But the conclusion of the piece is that for Meta, it's not yet opened any doors in a way that helps the company's profile.

Mark Zuckerberg's efforts to win over Maga World have brought the Meta CEO close to the President Trump and his administration, But according to the latest Bloomberg Big Take, Zark's efforts have yet to bear significant fruit for the social media company. Joining us with more is Bloomberg's Riley Griffin, one of the authors of that big Take. It's so deeply reported and it's to look at how Mark Zuckerberg has almost like changed himself over a period of time to kind of align with this administration. But the conclusion of the piece is that for Meta, it's not yet opened any doors in a way that helps the company's profile.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

My colleague Kurt Wagner and I spoke with more than fifty people for this story, which spans several decades really, and what we found is that the efforts to pivot towards Trump and his administration have not yet borne the fruit that the company so desires. And one of the case in points of that strategy, and it's perhaps failing so far, has been Mark Zuckerberg's attempts to end the FTC trial that you and I have spoken so often about Ed Mark Zuckerberg ended up taking the stand, but that was one of the moments that might show some of the weakness of this strategy.

My colleague Kurt Wagner and I spoke with more than fifty people for this story, which spans several decades really, and what we found is that the efforts to pivot towards Trump and his administration have not yet borne the fruit that the company so desires. And one of the case in points of that strategy, and it's perhaps failing so far, has been Mark Zuckerberg's attempts to end the FTC trial that you and I have spoken so often about Ed Mark Zuckerberg ended up taking the stand, but that was one of the moments that might show some of the weakness of this strategy.

I love going through the piece the frequent flier visualizations of how often he's on his plane trying to go back and forth to Washington. But also what stunned me was just how little respect ultimately it seemed that previous President Biden had for Mark Zuckerberg and also many for Metta.

I love going through the piece the frequent flier visualizations of how often he's on his plane trying to go back and forth to Washington. But also what stunned me was just how little respect ultimately it seemed that previous President Biden had for Mark Zuckerberg and also many for Metta.

Yes, that was one of the most interesting lines of reporting for me too, Caroline. What we found was that the Biden administration did not have a productive relationship with Meta over years, and that President Biden himself, even dating back to when he was a vice president, was incredibly skeptical of the social media giant, and Mark Zuckerberg personally. We learned that you called him behind closed doors little TOWRP, among other perhaps more colorful terms. And this really came to a head during the COVID nineteen pandemic as misinformation spread. There was that notable moment where Joe Biden, President Joe Biden called Meta, said Meta was killing people as it was spreading misinformation online.

Yes, that was one of the most interesting lines of reporting for me too, Caroline. What we found was that the Biden administration did not have a productive relationship with Meta over years, and that President Biden himself, even dating back to when he was a vice president, was incredibly skeptical of the social media giant, and Mark Zuckerberg personally. We learned that you called him behind closed doors little TOWRP, among other perhaps more colorful terms. And this really came to a head during the COVID nineteen pandemic as misinformation spread. There was that notable moment where Joe Biden, President Joe Biden called Meta, said Meta was killing people as it was spreading misinformation online.

Hey, real quick, how's morale inside Meta? Right now?

Hey, real quick, how's morale inside Meta? Right now?

You learn very quickly in Silicon Valley that a company's figurehead doesn't necessarily reflect its workforce.

You learn very quickly in Silicon Valley that a company's figurehead doesn't necessarily reflect its workforce.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, Meta is full of tens of thousands of employees, so obviously there's a wide range. But what we've found is that a lot of employees are really discontent with this approach. They're holding secret book clubs to talk about Sarah wyn Williams memoir Careless People, they are having wellness checks. Many folks have believed that Meta had done layoffs in an effort to quell descent. The company obviously denies that claim, but it's sour inside the company.

Well, Meta is full of tens of thousands of employees, so obviously there's a wide range. But what we've found is that a lot of employees are really discontent with this approach. They're holding secret book clubs to talk about Sarah wyn Williams memoir Careless People, they are having wellness checks. Many folks have believed that Meta had done layoffs in an effort to quell descent. The company obviously denies that claim, but it's sour inside the company.

Bloomberg's Roley Griffin, it's a very long piece. I heard. You should go and read it. Some deep dives there coming up. Cutting the cost of satellite manufacturing. What I Founders Fund is doubling down on demand in the space sector for its latest investment in Indurosat. This is Bloomberg Technology. Welcome back to bloom Bag Technology and Caroline Hide in New York.

Bloomberg's Roley Griffin, it's a very long piece. I heard. You should go and read it. Some deep dives there coming up. Cutting the cost of satellite manufacturing. What I Founders Fund is doubling down on demand in the space sector for its latest investment in Indurosat. This is Bloomberg Technology. Welcome back to bloom Bag Technology and Caroline Hide in New York.

Now I met love Low in San Francisco. Some momentum in the market's character.

Now I met love Low in San Francisco. Some momentum in the market's character.

Certainly is when it comes to stocks. Just check out what's happening on the NASDAG best days. It's about mid May. We are hired by the tune of two percent. In fact, only four stocks of this major benchmark are actually in the red. What's the moon music about? Is about macro. It's about consumer sentiment looking better. It's about the bond market looking a little bit calmer. Is about, of course, that key macro event that is in Vidio's numbers, coming as soon as tomorrow. But I'm also looking at Bitcoin actually not catching that upward draft. It's interesting one hundred and nine thousand. Look, we still need those all time highs, but it's notable that we haven't followed stocks higher. Move on, and though have a look at what ectes are doing in response to a bitcoin play. Everyone wants to be Michael Saler nowadays, the strategy strategy being born out with Trump, the DJT take care as it's known Trump media, they're going to be selling stock to buy bitcoin. It spends it lower by eleven percent of the moment. But I'm looking at pdd woful, the worst performing the nasat one hundred. This is, of course the owner of Timu. What it looks as though, of course, geopolitics trade anxiety plays out with profit tumbling some forty seven percent ed, but notably no future path that looks pretty. They have to invest to change up the business model at all.

Certainly is when it comes to stocks. Just check out what's happening on the NASDAG best days. It's about mid May. We are hired by the tune of two percent. In fact, only four stocks of this major benchmark are actually in the red. What's the moon music about? Is about macro. It's about consumer sentiment looking better. It's about the bond market looking a little bit calmer. Is about, of course, that key macro event that is in Vidio's numbers, coming as soon as tomorrow. But I'm also looking at Bitcoin actually not catching that upward draft. It's interesting one hundred and nine thousand. Look, we still need those all time highs, but it's notable that we haven't followed stocks higher. Move on, and though have a look at what ectes are doing in response to a bitcoin play. Everyone wants to be Michael Saler nowadays, the strategy strategy being born out with Trump, the DJT take care as it's known Trump media, they're going to be selling stock to buy bitcoin. It spends it lower by eleven percent of the moment. But I'm looking at pdd woful, the worst performing the nasat one hundred. This is, of course the owner of Timu. What it looks as though, of course, geopolitics trade anxiety plays out with profit tumbling some forty seven percent ed, but notably no future path that looks pretty. They have to invest to change up the business model at all.

Right, let's go from public markets to private markets and head to space. Bulgarian satellite manufacturer in Durosat has announced it's raised forty three million euros that's around forty nine million US dollars. This latest funning round was there by Peter Teal's Founder's fund, delighted to bring in in Durosat CEO Right Rychev and founders fun partner Delian Asparov, who join us from Sofia, Bulgaria's capital. And I'll start with you. You have managed to change the way that satellites are manufactured and also how profitable that business is. So why do you need to raise this money. What are you going to do to expand your production of those next gen satellites?

Right, let's go from public markets to private markets and head to space. Bulgarian satellite manufacturer in Durosat has announced it's raised forty three million euros that's around forty nine million US dollars. This latest funning round was there by Peter Teal's Founder's fund, delighted to bring in in Durosat CEO Right Rychev and founders fun partner Delian Asparov, who join us from Sofia, Bulgaria's capital. And I'll start with you. You have managed to change the way that satellites are manufactured and also how profitable that business is. So why do you need to raise this money. What are you going to do to expand your production of those next gen satellites?

Yeah, so, first of all, we didn't believe that there will be a part of them shifting the way that humanity builds the next future infrastructures in space, which in a simple thums means, how do we put multiple new sensors like cameras, traders, navigation systems of the future as fast as humanly possible to orbit? And how do we objectively lower the data to cost as little as one door per gigabyte of any type of space data. And the way that we approach this problem is basically trying to our best to build a satellite that was from day one designs for manufacturing, which is very unusual in a traditionally very hardware centric industry where everyone is usually building tailor made solutions for every individual missions.

Yeah, so, first of all, we didn't believe that there will be a part of them shifting the way that humanity builds the next future infrastructures in space, which in a simple thums means, how do we put multiple new sensors like cameras, traders, navigation systems of the future as fast as humanly possible to orbit? And how do we objectively lower the data to cost as little as one door per gigabyte of any type of space data. And the way that we approach this problem is basically trying to our best to build a satellite that was from day one designs for manufacturing, which is very unusual in a traditionally very hardware centric industry where everyone is usually building tailor made solutions for every individual missions.

We believe that's the way to go.

We believe that's the way to go.

We have leveraged a lot of our experience in the region of the center Eastern Europe concerning automotive designs, medical robotic industries, and we have tried our best to embed those into the satellite design.

We have leveraged a lot of our experience in the region of the center Eastern Europe concerning automotive designs, medical robotic industries, and we have tried our best to embed those into the satellite design.

Tellian, you are Bulgarian and I know this is a really big moment view and important to you. You see in Duro sat As being to Bulgaria almost like what TSMC is to Taiwan.

Tellian, you are Bulgarian and I know this is a really big moment view and important to you. You see in Duro sat As being to Bulgaria almost like what TSMC is to Taiwan.

Just explain your pieces there.

Just explain your pieces there.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, as being a native of the country, I had a predisposition to you know, sort of find an investment here for a long time, but only if it met the sort of standard you know, founder's fund the bar and as you know ed, we've been a big investor in a ton of the you know, leading aerospace companies everything obviously from behemoths like SpaceX, where we were early and consistent backer, but also in some of the next generation you know sort of companies that are coming up, you.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, as being a native of the country, I had a predisposition to you know, sort of find an investment here for a long time, but only if it met the sort of standard you know, founder's fund the bar and as you know ed, we've been a big investor in a ton of the you know, leading aerospace companies everything obviously from behemoths like SpaceX, where we were early and consistent backer, but also in some of the next generation you know sort of companies that are coming up, you.

Know, Impulse led by Tom Muller.

Know, Impulse led by Tom Muller.

Varda, the company that I incubated, hadrian focus on automated CNC manufacturing.

Varda, the company that I incubated, hadrian focus on automated CNC manufacturing.

But one of the core thesis.

But one of the core thesis.

That we wanted to you know, sort of focus on as we see this you know, sort of explosion in the industry was somebody that was focused on you know, mass manufacturing of satellites, but in a way that more closely resembles you know, you were talking about Apple early on the show, something that looks more like a consumer electronics, Apple manufacturing line. Then how the vast majority of satellites, even STARTLINGK satellites are assembled today, which is very tailored, one off, super custom made. If you look at the you know, sort of average American satellite in terms of its overlap with the autumn motive consumer electronics for medical industries, there's very little. And so for a long time I'd kind of given up on the thesis of actually being able to invest in somebody in this category. The thesis was always find somebody that's like the you know, sort of Dell for satellites.

That we wanted to you know, sort of focus on as we see this you know, sort of explosion in the industry was somebody that was focused on you know, mass manufacturing of satellites, but in a way that more closely resembles you know, you were talking about Apple early on the show, something that looks more like a consumer electronics, Apple manufacturing line. Then how the vast majority of satellites, even STARTLINGK satellites are assembled today, which is very tailored, one off, super custom made. If you look at the you know, sort of average American satellite in terms of its overlap with the autumn motive consumer electronics for medical industries, there's very little. And so for a long time I'd kind of given up on the thesis of actually being able to invest in somebody in this category. The thesis was always find somebody that's like the you know, sort of Dell for satellites.

But you know, I'd been.

But you know, I'd been.

Catching up with Reicho and in Daro SAT for several years, and you know, he had very little funding to get going on the company, and so he had to use some of these more consumer electronics automotive supply chains to build up his satellites and steadily made.

Catching up with Reicho and in Daro SAT for several years, and you know, he had very little funding to get going on the company, and so he had to use some of these more consumer electronics automotive supply chains to build up his satellites and steadily made.

Them bigger and bigger.

Them bigger and bigger.

Revenues got bigger and bigger, to the point where in Q four of last year, even though I'd always had this sort of you know, negative bias towards Bulgaryus, I was like, God, if I tell Peter that he hired a Bulgarian and he wants to invest in a Bulgarian company.

Revenues got bigger and bigger, to the point where in Q four of last year, even though I'd always had this sort of you know, negative bias towards Bulgaryus, I was like, God, if I tell Peter that he hired a Bulgarian and he wants to invest in a Bulgarian company.

He's going to kick me out of the room.

He's going to kick me out of the room.

Obviously, he's going to say, you know, del you're crazy. But at some point, the numbers, the quality of the technology, the culture of the team, the fact that they've you know, invested into the local university programs to start to train their own next generation talent.

Obviously, he's going to say, you know, del you're crazy. But at some point, the numbers, the quality of the technology, the culture of the team, the fact that they've you know, invested into the local university programs to start to train their own next generation talent.

That's what I mean when I talk about, you know, sort.

That's what I mean when I talk about, you know, sort.

Of the TSMC of Bulgaria, where it's both this national jewel in this very technologically you sort of forward sector, but deeply integrated in the society. The point where you know, if you're a fifteen year old Bulgarian, you know your physics is your computer engineer, mechanical engineer. All you can dream is the daily graduate university and getting it the go work from right jail.

Of the TSMC of Bulgaria, where it's both this national jewel in this very technologically you sort of forward sector, but deeply integrated in the society. The point where you know, if you're a fifteen year old Bulgarian, you know your physics is your computer engineer, mechanical engineer. All you can dream is the daily graduate university and getting it the go work from right jail.

So right show. We hear about the thesis. We know that the revenue is are climbing, but how can you be like Apple in terms of profitability, in terms of margin? How profitable are you?

So right show. We hear about the thesis. We know that the revenue is are climbing, but how can you be like Apple in terms of profitability, in terms of margin? How profitable are you?

Well, there is a lot of components in achieving profitability. I'm happy to say that we went on the market selling satellites in early twenty eighteen and we became profitable that same year, which usually never happens for a space company.

Well, there is a lot of components in achieving profitability. I'm happy to say that we went on the market selling satellites in early twenty eighteen and we became profitable that same year, which usually never happens for a space company.

Usually they need like a.

Usually they need like a.

Decade at best.

Decade at best.

And ever since, our business grows between two and three times zero over in terms of revenue, and every single line of our business today has an average gross margin between seventy seventy five and seventy seven percent. So I think we're pretty close to those type of metrics. But again, we are all only focused on the challenges that we really want to bring the industry to a completely new level and scale. And I believe honestly, at the end of the day, the attentive still the products and the execution of the team would leads to anyway immense market opportunity. And this is what we're hoping to achieve with our new inclobal partners from Founders Fund.

And ever since, our business grows between two and three times zero over in terms of revenue, and every single line of our business today has an average gross margin between seventy seventy five and seventy seven percent. So I think we're pretty close to those type of metrics. But again, we are all only focused on the challenges that we really want to bring the industry to a completely new level and scale. And I believe honestly, at the end of the day, the attentive still the products and the execution of the team would leads to anyway immense market opportunity. And this is what we're hoping to achieve with our new inclobal partners from Founders Fund.

And those partners Delian Can they be other of your investments? Just thinking of SpaceX as you mentioned Varda, which of course a precedent of how much are you going to turn to in durosap for your equipment?

And those partners Delian Can they be other of your investments? Just thinking of SpaceX as you mentioned Varda, which of course a precedent of how much are you going to turn to in durosap for your equipment?

Yeah, I mean, look, as you know, we're you know, sort of looking at the next generation vehicles across the portfolio.

Yeah, I mean, look, as you know, we're you know, sort of looking at the next generation vehicles across the portfolio.

If you just look at the economics of what right show is offering.

If you just look at the economics of what right show is offering.

It is just vastly differentiated relative to anything that you can find either in the European or the American market. Right if you think about the sort of traditional aerospace suppliers, think folks like you know, Airbus, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Blue Canyon Space Systems.

It is just vastly differentiated relative to anything that you can find either in the European or the American market. Right if you think about the sort of traditional aerospace suppliers, think folks like you know, Airbus, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Blue Canyon Space Systems.

All of their components are these things that are based.

All of their components are these things that are based.

Off of like nineteen seventy technologies that have been ever so slowly iterated on. And there is benefit to that that they have flight heritage, but there's so much stuck and not able to take that sort of monumental leap forward.

Off of like nineteen seventy technologies that have been ever so slowly iterated on. And there is benefit to that that they have flight heritage, but there's so much stuck and not able to take that sort of monumental leap forward.

So I won't comment on the specific companies, but I can.

So I won't comment on the specific companies, but I can.

Already is part of how I got alerted to Endurero was because we already had a significant amount of the founder's fund portfolio and some of the broader Silicon Valley funded Defense, TAC and you know space startups already as customers of his. You know, as I started to analyze everyone, I realized there was an arms dealer, there was a Dell for satellites already. It just happened to be this Bulgarian company that you know, for a long time, I just wasn't sure that I could take seriously, you know, given that I knew that I had this predisposition towards Bulgaria, and.

Already is part of how I got alerted to Endurero was because we already had a significant amount of the founder's fund portfolio and some of the broader Silicon Valley funded Defense, TAC and you know space startups already as customers of his. You know, as I started to analyze everyone, I realized there was an arms dealer, there was a Dell for satellites already. It just happened to be this Bulgarian company that you know, for a long time, I just wasn't sure that I could take seriously, you know, given that I knew that I had this predisposition towards Bulgaria, and.

To have these margins that we're.

To have these margins that we're.

Talking about, I mean the fact that you can build a space company profitably, growing quickly at seventy plus percent margins.

Talking about, I mean the fact that you can build a space company profitably, growing quickly at seventy plus percent margins.

I mean, those are the things that you see in.

I mean, those are the things that you see in.

You know, sort of consumer electronics behemoths like Apple. But if you look at the like average American aerospace or defense company, these are all like you know, best case twenty thirty percent margins, burning hundreds of millions of dollars before they ever get to any semblance of profitability. And all of these things never get to this level of margin. This is why when you look at everything from Planet Labs to Maxar to Iridium, all these companies that you know operate in the satellite world, they never trade above like three x revenues because there's no growth manager profitability. When you look at the right righteous business insane, the ce these metrics, you almost look like a traditional Silk and Valley SaaS company in terms of margin and growth.

You know, sort of consumer electronics behemoths like Apple. But if you look at the like average American aerospace or defense company, these are all like you know, best case twenty thirty percent margins, burning hundreds of millions of dollars before they ever get to any semblance of profitability. And all of these things never get to this level of margin. This is why when you look at everything from Planet Labs to Maxar to Iridium, all these companies that you know operate in the satellite world, they never trade above like three x revenues because there's no growth manager profitability. When you look at the right righteous business insane, the ce these metrics, you almost look like a traditional Silk and Valley SaaS company in terms of margin and growth.

Right, let me ask you this to finish, what's your strategy for manufacturing in the United States in the future.

Right, let me ask you this to finish, what's your strategy for manufacturing in the United States in the future.

I'm proud to say that the majority of our business is already in US and we are heavily involved in supporting the local ecosystem. We have quite advanced team in Denver. Already we are assembling and operating satellites.

I'm proud to say that the majority of our business is already in US and we are heavily involved in supporting the local ecosystem. We have quite advanced team in Denver. Already we are assembling and operating satellites.

For our US customer based from US.

For our US customer based from US.

So I really consider that there is no such dramatic difference between what we do in Bulgaria and in Europe and generally and what we are planning to do even expand for the US. Just to give you the context, we have already invested significant amounts millions just starting last year, way before there was this tension that drived between the two continents, and I think this extension is will be very healthy for our business. I mean, we need to learn how to do local stuff better than anyone else. We need to empower the local ecosystem.

So I really consider that there is no such dramatic difference between what we do in Bulgaria and in Europe and generally and what we are planning to do even expand for the US. Just to give you the context, we have already invested significant amounts millions just starting last year, way before there was this tension that drived between the two continents, and I think this extension is will be very healthy for our business. I mean, we need to learn how to do local stuff better than anyone else. We need to empower the local ecosystem.

And I think we also.

And I think we also.

Bring the knowledge and don't know how and a little bit of innovation that will be very healthy for the US marketing journal.

Bring the knowledge and don't know how and a little bit of innovation that will be very healthy for the US marketing journal.

Right ol Rachel CEO of Jurosat dellian Asparov, partner at Founder's Fund. We appreciate your time. Thank you both from Sophia, Bulgaria coming up a new company started by the founder of quantum computing firm Righetti. They aims to use quantum to address cost and energy bottlenecks in scaling AI.

Right ol Rachel CEO of Jurosat dellian Asparov, partner at Founder's Fund. We appreciate your time. Thank you both from Sophia, Bulgaria coming up a new company started by the founder of quantum computing firm Righetti. They aims to use quantum to address cost and energy bottlenecks in scaling AI.

That's next, there's a Bloomberg technology.

That's next, there's a Bloomberg technology.

The name Chad Brigghetti may be familiar to those in the quantum computing world. Now, the quantum computer entrepreneur and physicist is launching a new company called Signaldry. It aims to use quantum to address cost and energy bottomnecks that are associated with AI. Delight to say, Chabrighetti joins us. Now, I think we will get to the backstory of your involvement in the earlier days of this industry. But what is the objective of the new company and what is different about the new company's technology?

The name Chad Brigghetti may be familiar to those in the quantum computing world. Now, the quantum computer entrepreneur and physicist is launching a new company called Signaldry. It aims to use quantum to address cost and energy bottomnecks that are associated with AI. Delight to say, Chabrighetti joins us. Now, I think we will get to the backstory of your involvement in the earlier days of this industry. But what is the objective of the new company and what is different about the new company's technology?

HI great to be here today.

HI great to be here today.

Signtry is building quantum accelerated AI servers to exponentially speed up training.

Signtry is building quantum accelerated AI servers to exponentially speed up training.

And inference for these large models.

And inference for these large models.

As you've heard about, there's growing energy requirements, power requirements that are very challenging to meet, and there's growing costs for training new models, and ultimately quantum can provide a solution to that with these exponential speed ups. In the last few years, there's been new algorithms developed that can exponentially speed up things like stochastic gradient descent or low rank adaptation that are critical for training and inference in large models, and really bring in about the accessibility, affordability, and sustainability of true widespread adoption of AI.

As you've heard about, there's growing energy requirements, power requirements that are very challenging to meet, and there's growing costs for training new models, and ultimately quantum can provide a solution to that with these exponential speed ups. In the last few years, there's been new algorithms developed that can exponentially speed up things like stochastic gradient descent or low rank adaptation that are critical for training and inference in large models, and really bring in about the accessibility, affordability, and sustainability of true widespread adoption of AI.

We were recently at Nvidia gtc's Quantum Day. We did a special show where many sort of the leaders in this field joined us and kind of what struck me is they all sat there on stage with Daco Jensen Wang is how many companies are working on this, how many publicly traded companies. And I give you that preamble to ask, why do we need a new company focused on this task? Why can the technology been developed by all these others, including the namesay company founded, not crack it themselves.

We were recently at Nvidia gtc's Quantum Day. We did a special show where many sort of the leaders in this field joined us and kind of what struck me is they all sat there on stage with Daco Jensen Wang is how many companies are working on this, how many publicly traded companies. And I give you that preamble to ask, why do we need a new company focused on this task? Why can the technology been developed by all these others, including the namesay company founded, not crack it themselves.

It's a great question and I've thought about that as well, and ultimately that led me to starting Signaltry with my co founder Adelia Friedsen, who also worked with me at Righetti and helping the company public in twenty twenty two. Ultimately, all of these companies that are out there today are making tremendous progress. There's been tremendous advancement just in the last three years alone, new CUBA types like neutral atoms and photonics have you know, you know, advanced as much or even more.

It's a great question and I've thought about that as well, and ultimately that led me to starting Signaltry with my co founder Adelia Friedsen, who also worked with me at Righetti and helping the company public in twenty twenty two. Ultimately, all of these companies that are out there today are making tremendous progress. There's been tremendous advancement just in the last three years alone, new CUBA types like neutral atoms and photonics have you know, you know, advanced as much or even more.

Than supermarket and cubits have.

Than supermarket and cubits have.

And ultimately what we see is an opportunity to combine these different modalities within a single fault tolerant architecture.

And ultimately what we see is an opportunity to combine these different modalities within a single fault tolerant architecture.

And we thought about, you know, and then on the.

And we thought about, you know, and then on the.

Flip side of that, to take a laser focus on accelerating these compute challenges in AI. Ultimately, over the past two or three years, AI it's become so useful and so widely use that it's redefined. It's basically created a new abstraction layer for computing hardware. And with that computer hardware itself needs to evolve and change. If you look at the quantic computing companies that are out there right now, even the public ones and the one that I built in Regetting Computing, all of those roadmaps, their plans for five ten years out were locked in before AI became the dominant compute paradigm. And so today we see an opportunity to bring a new architecture that is specifically focused on accelerating training and inference, on lowering the cost and energy requirements. And also at combining different Cubitt modalities because all the companies today also are sideloaed with respect to their technology choices, which again were made before AI became the dominant paradigm. So we're bringing multiple different Cubitt types together within a single fault tone and architecture explicitly built for AI.

Flip side of that, to take a laser focus on accelerating these compute challenges in AI. Ultimately, over the past two or three years, AI it's become so useful and so widely use that it's redefined. It's basically created a new abstraction layer for computing hardware. And with that computer hardware itself needs to evolve and change. If you look at the quantic computing companies that are out there right now, even the public ones and the one that I built in Regetting Computing, all of those roadmaps, their plans for five ten years out were locked in before AI became the dominant compute paradigm. And so today we see an opportunity to bring a new architecture that is specifically focused on accelerating training and inference, on lowering the cost and energy requirements. And also at combining different Cubitt modalities because all the companies today also are sideloaed with respect to their technology choices, which again were made before AI became the dominant paradigm. So we're bringing multiple different Cubitt types together within a single fault tone and architecture explicitly built for AI.

Chad, do you need more money to do this because at the moment you're backed by Y Combinator. I'm sure you've got some money made on your previous company, But how much you need outside investment?

Chad, do you need more money to do this because at the moment you're backed by Y Combinator. I'm sure you've got some money made on your previous company, But how much you need outside investment?

Well, of course this is deep technology in the end, and the size of this market if you can crack this, when quantum really comes online and starts to impact AI training and inference costs, it's going to be a trillion dollar market. And we see this as completely inevitable. Ultimately, nature it self runs on quantum mechanics in the most information rich environments at the lowest level of nature. We use quantum mechanics to process that information, and quantum reflects that mirrors at reality and ultimately is a more efficient way of computing long term.

Well, of course this is deep technology in the end, and the size of this market if you can crack this, when quantum really comes online and starts to impact AI training and inference costs, it's going to be a trillion dollar market. And we see this as completely inevitable. Ultimately, nature it self runs on quantum mechanics in the most information rich environments at the lowest level of nature. We use quantum mechanics to process that information, and quantum reflects that mirrors at reality and ultimately is a more efficient way of computing long term.

So we're going to use this in conjunction with GPUs, in conjunction with large deal classical infrastructure.

So we're going to use this in conjunction with GPUs, in conjunction with large deal classical infrastructure.

It's an enormous opportunity, and ultimately we believe that when our multi modality quantum architecture comes online that is not you know, other single modality architectures aren't ultimately going to be able to compete with it. We will absolutely need to raise additional capital going forward. The company is just getting going. We're launching and you know, publicly announcing the company today, So.

It's an enormous opportunity, and ultimately we believe that when our multi modality quantum architecture comes online that is not you know, other single modality architectures aren't ultimately going to be able to compete with it. We will absolutely need to raise additional capital going forward. The company is just getting going. We're launching and you know, publicly announcing the company today, So.

We're in the early stages. But we're really excited.

We're in the early stages. But we're really excited.

Our team is growing very fast, and we're you know, we're very excited what the next few years old.

Our team is growing very fast, and we're you know, we're very excited what the next few years old.

Chad to be personal about it. How has Regetti responded? It bears your name. I'm sure it's a help in many ways for you because your name is still so legendary within quantum. But how did they respond when they're also teaming up the Quanta in Taiwan, which is a server maker and looking at the adoption of quantum there.

Chad to be personal about it. How has Regetti responded? It bears your name. I'm sure it's a help in many ways for you because your name is still so legendary within quantum. But how did they respond when they're also teaming up the Quanta in Taiwan, which is a server maker and looking at the adoption of quantum there.

Yeah, well, ultimately you need to ask the boat and the team there.

Yeah, well, ultimately you need to ask the boat and the team there.

I think with respect to the progress towards ai these are deep architectural choices that need to be made early on in establishing your hardware roadmap and your company vision and plan, you need, the DNA, you need to be you know, early on in the organization, and once those things get locked in, there are forces that make it very challenging to to you know, to adjust that vision, to adjust those roadmaps, because it relates to all of your partnerships, it relates to your talent base, it relates to how you think and talk about the technology internally and your culture.

I think with respect to the progress towards ai these are deep architectural choices that need to be made early on in establishing your hardware roadmap and your company vision and plan, you need, the DNA, you need to be you know, early on in the organization, and once those things get locked in, there are forces that make it very challenging to to you know, to adjust that vision, to adjust those roadmaps, because it relates to all of your partnerships, it relates to your talent base, it relates to how you think and talk about the technology internally and your culture.

So ultimately, we think being.

So ultimately, we think being.

Started started from the very get go focused on AIS, the singular killer application for quantum technologies. Getting the right team together very early on in developing an architecture, leveraging multiple different CUBA types that are needed to ultimately reach the combination of cost, speed and scale to unlock these AI applications is the winning.

Started started from the very get go focused on AIS, the singular killer application for quantum technologies. Getting the right team together very early on in developing an architecture, leveraging multiple different CUBA types that are needed to ultimately reach the combination of cost, speed and scale to unlock these AI applications is the winning.

Approach to this, Chad, it's great speaking with you, Chad Raghetti, his new company, Siguldry, appreciate you joining shares of China's bid. They extended losses for the second day and it's Hong Kong trading. They're down here in depository receipts as well. This after the electric car maker announced sweeping price cuts up to thirty four percent on some of its vehicles. As his competition at home intensifies for the sector. Grimberg's David Welch joins us. Now, how fierce is the price competition in China?