Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed.

Ludlow live from New York.

Ludlow live from New York.

I'm Caroline Hyde, and this is Bloomberg Technology.

I'm Caroline Hyde, and this is Bloomberg Technology.

Coming up.

Coming up.

The Magnificent seven is in the reader sell off in tech megacaps as Trump's trade war is still on the horizon. Plus an exclusive conversation with the CEOs of Anthropic and Data Bricks, who are out with a new partnership to bring claud models to the enterprise and advertisers return to X with the platform Projector to post a jump in advertising sales.

The Magnificent seven is in the reader sell off in tech megacaps as Trump's trade war is still on the horizon. Plus an exclusive conversation with the CEOs of Anthropic and Data Bricks, who are out with a new partnership to bring claud models to the enterprise and advertisers return to X with the platform Projector to post a jump in advertising sales.

That's according to new research.

That's according to new research.

Will bring you those X exclusive numbers later this hour, but first we check in on a market that is sinking once again. Then as that one hundred off by nine tenths of a percent, but we're seeing the Magnificent seven all training lower and.

Will bring you those X exclusive numbers later this hour, but first we check in on a market that is sinking once again. Then as that one hundred off by nine tenths of a percent, but we're seeing the Magnificent seven all training lower and.

By some significant numbers.

By some significant numbers.

Move on and have a look at what's underneath the herd as we still try to digest what happens in terms of tariffs and ultimately what valuations should be at for big tech. We're off by three point six percent again for Tesla.

Move on and have a look at what's underneath the herd as we still try to digest what happens in terms of tariffs and ultimately what valuations should be at for big tech. We're off by three point six percent again for Tesla.

This is as we see the downwards of.

This is as we see the downwards of.

Directory continue after the European numbers bone ill for the company. We're looking at fundamentals that continue to get under pressure, and indeed in videos.

Directory continue after the European numbers bone ill for the company. We're looking at fundamentals that continue to get under pressure, and indeed in videos.

Off by four percent. We're seeing all the points.

Off by four percent. We're seeing all the points.

Drags from mag seven. I shine like what's happening with ARM. We'll get to that in a moment. But the legal tip for tats are going on with qual Common ARM and I'm looking at Amazon off by one point four percent. Maybe the one that's starting to look like is more juicy from a valuation perspective, Let's get to it with Ryan Valastelica, who is with us, and this is another day of stress on the valuations of the Magnificent seven. Let's just go to in video and some of the reasons we're seeing the sell off from a macro perspective, Is this about the economy?

Drags from mag seven. I shine like what's happening with ARM. We'll get to that in a moment. But the legal tip for tats are going on with qual Common ARM and I'm looking at Amazon off by one point four percent. Maybe the one that's starting to look like is more juicy from a valuation perspective, Let's get to it with Ryan Valastelica, who is with us, and this is another day of stress on the valuations of the Magnificent seven. Let's just go to in video and some of the reasons we're seeing the sell off from a macro perspective, Is this about the economy?

Yes?

Yes?

Broadly speaking, yes, I would say that is the case. There's a still a lot of uncertainty about tariff policy, about the implications for overall economic growth, the outlook for the consumer, the outlook for businesses. We are seeing signs of businesses or maybe pulling back on investments is because they are not sure what the tariff situation is going to be, what the economic outlook is going to be. All that kind of frozen activity, all that uncertainty is really just causing people to take some profits if they still have them, and just you know, kind of take a pause and step back.

Broadly speaking, yes, I would say that is the case. There's a still a lot of uncertainty about tariff policy, about the implications for overall economic growth, the outlook for the consumer, the outlook for businesses. We are seeing signs of businesses or maybe pulling back on investments is because they are not sure what the tariff situation is going to be, what the economic outlook is going to be. All that kind of frozen activity, all that uncertainty is really just causing people to take some profits if they still have them, and just you know, kind of take a pause and step back.

But when you step back, you start to look at the valuations, You look at the fundamentals, and you've done exactly that. For example, Amazon not been trading at these sorts of price to future earnings levels in years.

But when you step back, you start to look at the valuations, You look at the fundamentals, and you've done exactly that. For example, Amazon not been trading at these sorts of price to future earnings levels in years.

Yeah, so some of these names, you know, at the start of the year, there were a lot of concerns about valuations. Those concerns are a lot smaller now just given how much some of these names have come down. So in the case of Amazon, they have pretty strong earnings growth. They've been really focusing on efficiency and cost cutting things that are really improving their profitability. That is really driving the multiple down. The multiples about half of what it was over the longer term. It is cheaper than Apple now, and just a few years ago Apple was several times cheaper than Amazon. So is quite the flip in narrative when it comes to tech valuations. Amazon is cheaper than other retail names like Walmart and Costco. It's a stock that, you know, given people continue to have pretty optimistic views about its long term growth potential the multiple here, it wouldn't surprise me if you start seeing people look at a name like this, say, to really come off its lows. The fundamentals look pretty intact. Still a lot of you know, earning's growth potential and revenue growth potential ahead even in a rockier economic climate. Maybe that's why they start taking a look at a stock like this.

Yeah, so some of these names, you know, at the start of the year, there were a lot of concerns about valuations. Those concerns are a lot smaller now just given how much some of these names have come down. So in the case of Amazon, they have pretty strong earnings growth. They've been really focusing on efficiency and cost cutting things that are really improving their profitability. That is really driving the multiple down. The multiples about half of what it was over the longer term. It is cheaper than Apple now, and just a few years ago Apple was several times cheaper than Amazon. So is quite the flip in narrative when it comes to tech valuations. Amazon is cheaper than other retail names like Walmart and Costco. It's a stock that, you know, given people continue to have pretty optimistic views about its long term growth potential the multiple here, it wouldn't surprise me if you start seeing people look at a name like this, say, to really come off its lows. The fundamentals look pretty intact. Still a lot of you know, earning's growth potential and revenue growth potential ahead even in a rockier economic climate. Maybe that's why they start taking a look at a stock like this.

But who is taking a look at a stock like this?

But who is taking a look at a stock like this?

Ryan?

Ryan?

You get so much inbound and response to your stories. Are people starting to want to catch what seems like a falling life?

You get so much inbound and response to your stories. Are people starting to want to catch what seems like a falling life?

You know, that's something I've heard, the falling knife thing. I do think people still feel like these are pretty safe companies. Isn't broken even if some of the arrogance let out, even the multiples come down a little bit more. I don't think people are really concerned about the long term prospects of these companies. There can still consider to be very dominant in their field, and even if we see a weaker economic outlook, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw Amazon, for example, maybe consolidate its market share, especially in online retail or retail. Overall, cloud business remains very strong and has an AD business that's growing a lot. There's certainly a lot of positives you can point to here, even if we see a lot more volatility in the short term.

You know, that's something I've heard, the falling knife thing. I do think people still feel like these are pretty safe companies. Isn't broken even if some of the arrogance let out, even the multiples come down a little bit more. I don't think people are really concerned about the long term prospects of these companies. There can still consider to be very dominant in their field, and even if we see a weaker economic outlook, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw Amazon, for example, maybe consolidate its market share, especially in online retail or retail. Overall, cloud business remains very strong and has an AD business that's growing a lot. There's certainly a lot of positives you can point to here, even if we see a lot more volatility in the short term.

Ran Rasselica, we thank you from a macro perspective across Magnificent seven. Meanwhile, just take a look at ARM and coal Comb once again. Now this is as Arms trading significantly lower today. As you can Seequalcomb, as is being reported, has begun a global antitrust campaign against the chip designer, alleging in private meetings that ARM is guilty of anti competitive behavior. So all according to sources, and we want to get the analysis of all of this in Mandy saying from Bloembag Intelligence, and for me it immediately becomes a question.

Ran Rasselica, we thank you from a macro perspective across Magnificent seven. Meanwhile, just take a look at ARM and coal Comb once again. Now this is as Arms trading significantly lower today. As you can Seequalcomb, as is being reported, has begun a global antitrust campaign against the chip designer, alleging in private meetings that ARM is guilty of anti competitive behavior. So all according to sources, and we want to get the analysis of all of this in Mandy saying from Bloembag Intelligence, and for me it immediately becomes a question.

Of just what a distraction this is.

Of just what a distraction this is.

But ultimately this is Qualcom coming out and feeling and stating that ARM is getting competitive with them and therefore stopping access to their technology, to their designs.

But ultimately this is Qualcom coming out and feeling and stating that ARM is getting competitive with them and therefore stopping access to their technology, to their designs.

Yeah, and especially when it comes from one of your top two customers in the case of ARM, you know, Qualcom is a top two customer. It's never easy. So look, ARM did bring a lawsuit back in twenty twenty four, which they ended up losing against Qualcomm, and to me, it reminds me, you know what Qualcom faced against Apple. I mean, I remember twenty seven to twenty nineteen they had the back and forth where Apple was using Qualcom technology and Qualcomm didn't go you know, anywhere with sort of getting more royalties from Apple. So I think ARM is in a weak position here given you know, I mean, Qualcom is using all the IP that ARM has to offer and paying for it. And you know, granted they made that acquisition of Nuilla, but at the end of the day, they're still using ARMS instruction sets and it's hard to really prove that, you know, Qualcomm is doing anything wrong. So I'm not surprised that they are going all in with this centi trust campaign, but I think ARM is in a weaker.

Yeah, and especially when it comes from one of your top two customers in the case of ARM, you know, Qualcom is a top two customer. It's never easy. So look, ARM did bring a lawsuit back in twenty twenty four, which they ended up losing against Qualcomm, and to me, it reminds me, you know what Qualcom faced against Apple. I mean, I remember twenty seven to twenty nineteen they had the back and forth where Apple was using Qualcom technology and Qualcomm didn't go you know, anywhere with sort of getting more royalties from Apple. So I think ARM is in a weak position here given you know, I mean, Qualcom is using all the IP that ARM has to offer and paying for it. And you know, granted they made that acquisition of Nuilla, but at the end of the day, they're still using ARMS instruction sets and it's hard to really prove that, you know, Qualcomm is doing anything wrong. So I'm not surprised that they are going all in with this centi trust campaign, but I think ARM is in a weaker.

Position coming complaints to the European Commission. We understand the sec in the US Career Fair Trade Commission, Man Deed, I just want to get the perspective of the companies. Qualcombs declined to comment. Suppose people from this regulators also declining arms, saying it's confident it will prevail.

Position coming complaints to the European Commission. We understand the sec in the US Career Fair Trade Commission, Man Deed, I just want to get the perspective of the companies. Qualcombs declined to comment. Suppose people from this regulators also declining arms, saying it's confident it will prevail.

But I go to the distruction perspective here.

But I go to the distruction perspective here.

Because they say they remain focused on enhancing innovation. Does innovation generally dip when companies are locked in what might.

Because they say they remain focused on enhancing innovation. Does innovation generally dip when companies are locked in what might.

Be a year long, years long legal disputes.

Be a year long, years long legal disputes.

Yeah, and especially you know with the AI market moving so fast with inferencing. I mean everyone is trying to come up with new designs in terms of how to do infencing faster. So you're right, it is a distraction. And in the case of Qualcomm, they have expressed interest and even Intel. I mean granted Intel has a new CEO now and we don't know what they will end up doing with the overall business, but clearly Qualcomm has ambitions on the CPU side, and really they want to do much more with the infance in hip beyond smartphones. So to your point about distraction, I mean all the back and courts and the lawsuits do seem like a distraction.

Yeah, and especially you know with the AI market moving so fast with inferencing. I mean everyone is trying to come up with new designs in terms of how to do infencing faster. So you're right, it is a distraction. And in the case of Qualcomm, they have expressed interest and even Intel. I mean granted Intel has a new CEO now and we don't know what they will end up doing with the overall business, but clearly Qualcomm has ambitions on the CPU side, and really they want to do much more with the infance in hip beyond smartphones. So to your point about distraction, I mean all the back and courts and the lawsuits do seem like a distraction.

Many people wanting to go beyond the smartphone in this environment.

Many people wanting to go beyond the smartphone in this environment.

Man Deep saying thanks for joining us. Coming up, we're.

Man Deep saying thanks for joining us. Coming up, we're.

Here from the CEOs of Anthropic and Data Bricks on their brand new partnership aipolicies under the Trump administration and so much more. This is brume meg Technology, dat to Bricks and Anthropic just announced a five year partnership to offer anthropic models and services on data bricks. Basically, it's bringing Anthropics Claude models directly to ten thousand companies. Tim Centevic sat down when the Anthropic CEO Dario Mmoda and Data Bricks CEO Ali.

Here from the CEOs of Anthropic and Data Bricks on their brand new partnership aipolicies under the Trump administration and so much more. This is brume meg Technology, dat to Bricks and Anthropic just announced a five year partnership to offer anthropic models and services on data bricks. Basically, it's bringing Anthropics Claude models directly to ten thousand companies. Tim Centevic sat down when the Anthropic CEO Dario Mmoda and Data Bricks CEO Ali.

Gotzi to discuss what this means for their customers.

Gotzi to discuss what this means for their customers.

What it really means is that you can use securely Anthropic inside data bricks. You can get all that intelligence, especially all the programmability these models. Claud are really good at programming, and you can use that for data science and you can use it together with all the data that we have. So enterprises have been storing their data with data bricks for the last decade. How do you build AI that can reason on that data. So we're super excited to bring those llms and that data together in the partnership.

What it really means is that you can use securely Anthropic inside data bricks. You can get all that intelligence, especially all the programmability these models. Claud are really good at programming, and you can use that for data science and you can use it together with all the data that we have. So enterprises have been storing their data with data bricks for the last decade. How do you build AI that can reason on that data. So we're super excited to bring those llms and that data together in the partnership.

Daria, we know what all is getting out of it, what are you getting out of it?

Daria, we know what all is getting out of it, what are you getting out of it?

So we're really excited to bring Claude to a wide range of enterprise customers. Claud Claud models are growing very fast. Models are you know, the API revenue is growing growing at something like a twenty x annualized rate.

So we're really excited to bring Claude to a wide range of enterprise customers. Claud Claud models are growing very fast. Models are you know, the API revenue is growing growing at something like a twenty x annualized rate.

But we want to make.

But we want to make.

Sure that our models can meet all the requirements that complex enterprise customers have. Uh and we can do this with the help of data bricks, as Olie was saying, we can take our models, which are the world best for coding and many other tasks, and use use data bricks as tools to operate on the customer data and we can work together to secure that customer data and you know, make sure that customers can be assured that they get the proper security experience. Both companies value things like safety, security, privacy, things that enterprise customers greatly value. Where's the fastest area of growth for you? You know, I think I think, by far and away, the fastest area of growth is code. Claud models are better than anything out there by wide margin in terms terms of how they code. We power a large number of players in the space, including Cursor, Codium, Cognition, GitHub, Copilot, First Sell, source Graph, many many others that I'm that I'm not even mentioning, and we're starting to build an ecosystem around this area. Now, all that said, we also have partners in many other areas. We have partners in the financial space, we have partners in the biomedical and scientific research space.

Sure that our models can meet all the requirements that complex enterprise customers have. Uh and we can do this with the help of data bricks, as Olie was saying, we can take our models, which are the world best for coding and many other tasks, and use use data bricks as tools to operate on the customer data and we can work together to secure that customer data and you know, make sure that customers can be assured that they get the proper security experience. Both companies value things like safety, security, privacy, things that enterprise customers greatly value. Where's the fastest area of growth for you? You know, I think I think, by far and away, the fastest area of growth is code. Claud models are better than anything out there by wide margin in terms terms of how they code. We power a large number of players in the space, including Cursor, Codium, Cognition, GitHub, Copilot, First Sell, source Graph, many many others that I'm that I'm not even mentioning, and we're starting to build an ecosystem around this area. Now, all that said, we also have partners in many other areas. We have partners in the financial space, we have partners in the biomedical and scientific research space.

We work with.

We work with.

Companies in the legal and productivity space. So it's it's pretty broadly spread. But among those areas, I think Code has by far been, you know, growing the fastest.

Companies in the legal and productivity space. So it's it's pretty broadly spread. But among those areas, I think Code has by far been, you know, growing the fastest.

I'm curious about your each of your views on the administration and what we've seen thus far out of Washington and David Sachs he's crypto and AI zre Ollie, what does he mean for your business?

I'm curious about your each of your views on the administration and what we've seen thus far out of Washington and David Sachs he's crypto and AI zre Ollie, what does he mean for your business?

I think it's great that.

I think it's great that.

We have people that actually understand the tech that are in the government. I think it's early days, so you know, we're working together to figure out what's the best way to bring value to our customers.

We have people that actually understand the tech that are in the government. I think it's early days, so you know, we're working together to figure out what's the best way to bring value to our customers.

How are you working together? Are you in touch with them?

How are you working together? Are you in touch with them?

Yeah, I mean we've we've uh, you know, we've given our feedback on you know, AI policy and other things and their requests of that. And I think the government's requested broadly from the industry.

Yeah, I mean we've we've uh, you know, we've given our feedback on you know, AI policy and other things and their requests of that. And I think the government's requested broadly from the industry.

So we're excited. Daria, What about you. Are you in touch with the administration.

So we're excited. Daria, What about you. Are you in touch with the administration.

Yeah, we're we're you know, we're in touch with this administration. Just like we've been in touch with the last administration as well. You know, the thing I like to say is, you know, you know, AI has big impact, big implications for society. So it's very important for anthropic to be about the policy and not about the politics. So we don't care which you know, you know, regardless of which administration is in office at the present time. We have a we have a set of things that we think it's it's good to do, you know, good to do in AI policy. And you know, we've told the same thing to the Trump administration that we've told to the Biden administration. We have folks that we've we've we've talked to in this administration just like the last administration, and we've delivered exactly the same message both times. We aim to be assistant, we aim to be non partisan and offer our view of how to make the industry go best.

Yeah, we're we're you know, we're in touch with this administration. Just like we've been in touch with the last administration as well. You know, the thing I like to say is, you know, you know, AI has big impact, big implications for society. So it's very important for anthropic to be about the policy and not about the politics. So we don't care which you know, you know, regardless of which administration is in office at the present time. We have a we have a set of things that we think it's it's good to do, you know, good to do in AI policy. And you know, we've told the same thing to the Trump administration that we've told to the Biden administration. We have folks that we've we've we've talked to in this administration just like the last administration, and we've delivered exactly the same message both times. We aim to be assistant, we aim to be non partisan and offer our view of how to make the industry go best.

What is the US government's role? Well, what what should the US government's role be in your view?

What is the US government's role? Well, what what should the US government's role be in your view?

Yeah, So we laid this out in our RFI submitted to to the OSTP that I think that was a couple a couple of weeks ago. But you know, things that we've emphasized include I won't get the complete list here, but include export controls on chips to China, testing of models for national security risks such as bio or or or cyber risks. The government should have a role in provisioning as much as much energy as possible. The government should help to secure AI labs. We're very concerned about security. We talked a lot about security, you know, as part of this partnership. But another kind of security is you know, we're worried about our our models and our technology being stolen. So those are those are a few of the areas where I think the government can have a constructive role.

Yeah, So we laid this out in our RFI submitted to to the OSTP that I think that was a couple a couple of weeks ago. But you know, things that we've emphasized include I won't get the complete list here, but include export controls on chips to China, testing of models for national security risks such as bio or or or cyber risks. The government should have a role in provisioning as much as much energy as possible. The government should help to secure AI labs. We're very concerned about security. We talked a lot about security, you know, as part of this partnership. But another kind of security is you know, we're worried about our our models and our technology being stolen. So those are those are a few of the areas where I think the government can have a constructive role.

Anthropic CEO Dario Amada and Data back CEO Ali Gotzi with our very owned tim Sthenomic and look, let's stick with global competition around AI models.

Anthropic CEO Dario Amada and Data back CEO Ali Gotzi with our very owned tim Sthenomic and look, let's stick with global competition around AI models.

It is top of mind for US.

It is top of mind for US.

Tech companies because ever since deep Seat launch, the Chinese tech industry has been flooding the world with more AI models. Nu Mergs Peter Elstrom joins us for more and beta. It feels like every day there is yet a new update or a new release coming from deep Seak and so many others.

Tech companies because ever since deep Seat launch, the Chinese tech industry has been flooding the world with more AI models. Nu Mergs Peter Elstrom joins us for more and beta. It feels like every day there is yet a new update or a new release coming from deep Seak and so many others.

Is that the cadence we're getting?

Is that the cadence we're getting?

Yeah, I think you're pretty much exactly right. It has been almost every day that we've been seeing these new AI services and models that have been introduced from Chinese companies. We count at least ten of them over the past two weeks, and those are really just the major companies. This is Baidu and Ali, Baba and ten Cent. At Anc Group also came out with some AI breakthroughs, and really what they're doing is they're putting a lot of pressure on the profit models that we're seeing in Silicon Valley, where they're providing open source AI services that people can use and modify and incorporate into their technology to be able to use all of the know how the AI models without paying some of the prices that you would have to pay if you went to more premium models like open AI, like Google in particular. So they're putting some downward pressure on those companies. In particular, they've been mostly focused on the China market so far, but they certainly have global ambitions and we'll see how far they take that.

Yeah, I think you're pretty much exactly right. It has been almost every day that we've been seeing these new AI services and models that have been introduced from Chinese companies. We count at least ten of them over the past two weeks, and those are really just the major companies. This is Baidu and Ali, Baba and ten Cent. At Anc Group also came out with some AI breakthroughs, and really what they're doing is they're putting a lot of pressure on the profit models that we're seeing in Silicon Valley, where they're providing open source AI services that people can use and modify and incorporate into their technology to be able to use all of the know how the AI models without paying some of the prices that you would have to pay if you went to more premium models like open AI, like Google in particular. So they're putting some downward pressure on those companies. In particular, they've been mostly focused on the China market so far, but they certainly have global ambitions and we'll see how far they take that.

Ultimately, it feels as though this is a rerun of what if we've seen in plenty of industries. You think of China and evs, you think China of solar. They've driven down the costs.

Ultimately, it feels as though this is a rerun of what if we've seen in plenty of industries. You think of China and evs, you think China of solar. They've driven down the costs.

And the prices.

And the prices.

But what does this mean. What's the implication through a US competitor.

But what does this mean. What's the implication through a US competitor.

Is it a bad thing? Got to be good for customers?

Is it a bad thing? Got to be good for customers?

Yeah, those are very interesting parallels if you look at evs or you look at solar panels. Certainly there are some negative implications for other countries around the world. It's not exactly clear how this is going to play out though. At this point they are driving down profits in certain areas of the AI industry, but they're probably shifting the competition to other areas like execution. Who can actually build the services to connect some of that AI AI know how with the corporate needs for example, or consumer needs. And you're going to see a lot of innovation, certainly out of Silicon Valley and the companies that we were just talking about, and also out of China. Overall, it's probably good for the AI market. You get rapid commercialization of these services, you get lower prices, you get some robust competition, and that will probably lead to more innovation down the line.

Yeah, those are very interesting parallels if you look at evs or you look at solar panels. Certainly there are some negative implications for other countries around the world. It's not exactly clear how this is going to play out though. At this point they are driving down profits in certain areas of the AI industry, but they're probably shifting the competition to other areas like execution. Who can actually build the services to connect some of that AI AI know how with the corporate needs for example, or consumer needs. And you're going to see a lot of innovation, certainly out of Silicon Valley and the companies that we were just talking about, and also out of China. Overall, it's probably good for the AI market. You get rapid commercialization of these services, you get lower prices, you get some robust competition, and that will probably lead to more innovation down the line.

And certainly Apple CEO Tim Cook been going to that home of innovation of late at Hanzu Blomberg's Peter Elstrom, we thank you so much all things China.

And certainly Apple CEO Tim Cook been going to that home of innovation of late at Hanzu Blomberg's Peter Elstrom, we thank you so much all things China.

It's time now for talking tech.

It's time now for talking tech.

First up, Google's Gemini gets an upgrade. The company's released version two point five of its AI model that it says is capable of reasoning before responding and resulting in better performance and accuracy, and the latest model.

First up, Google's Gemini gets an upgrade. The company's released version two point five of its AI model that it says is capable of reasoning before responding and resulting in better performance and accuracy, and the latest model.

Is available to use Google's Ai studio and Gemini app us.

Is available to use Google's Ai studio and Gemini app us.

Open Ai is now making is simpler to edit images in chat ChiPT livestream. On Tuesday, the company showed how users could now refine images in CHATCHYBT with a series of conversations. Now, according to open Ai, the program will now also be able to better create diagrams in for graphics and logos for professional use. Meanwhile, Elon Musk's Grog is making political ways in India. The AI chatbot that must described as maximumly truth seeking, has made some controversial responses around Indian politics, including criticizing Prime Minister and Arrando Modi and praising opposition leader Rahul Gandhi. Groc's replies is said to have sparked a political firestorm within the Indian government as they take a look at making action against users who prompt for those responses, Let's just stick with Elon Musk because for the first time since the billionaire acquired X, where Grok is the social media platform is on pace to see advertising revenue grow. That's according to research firm e Marketer. Jasmin Embergs with US vice president and principal analysts for e Marketer, and you've brought us this research exclusively, Jasmine, where did the data come from? How you tracking this increase?

Open Ai is now making is simpler to edit images in chat ChiPT livestream. On Tuesday, the company showed how users could now refine images in CHATCHYBT with a series of conversations. Now, according to open Ai, the program will now also be able to better create diagrams in for graphics and logos for professional use. Meanwhile, Elon Musk's Grog is making political ways in India. The AI chatbot that must described as maximumly truth seeking, has made some controversial responses around Indian politics, including criticizing Prime Minister and Arrando Modi and praising opposition leader Rahul Gandhi. Groc's replies is said to have sparked a political firestorm within the Indian government as they take a look at making action against users who prompt for those responses, Let's just stick with Elon Musk because for the first time since the billionaire acquired X, where Grok is the social media platform is on pace to see advertising revenue grow. That's according to research firm e Marketer. Jasmin Embergs with US vice president and principal analysts for e Marketer, and you've brought us this research exclusively, Jasmine, where did the data come from? How you tracking this increase?

But the data is from our proprietary forecast here at eMarketer, and we have a multi source methodology where we have a team of forecasters that regularly goes through a variety of different sources from third party research firms to interviews with advertisers and looks at broader macroeconomic and digital advertising trends to put together these forecasts.

But the data is from our proprietary forecast here at eMarketer, and we have a multi source methodology where we have a team of forecasters that regularly goes through a variety of different sources from third party research firms to interviews with advertisers and looks at broader macroeconomic and digital advertising trends to put together these forecasts.

The drivers of growth there forward.

The drivers of growth there forward.

Those advertisers that are returning, are they coming back with a feeling of joy and desire to spend or is there something else going on here?

Those advertisers that are returning, are they coming back with a feeling of joy and desire to spend or is there something else going on here?

Look first, I would say that this is a recovery, not a rebound. Even with the growth that we are projecting, X's ad business in twenty twenty five is still going to be smaller than Twitter's ad business was back in twenty nineteen, and to your question, some of this growth is actually being driven by fear. There are plenty of advertisers out there now who see spending on xcess kind of a cost of doing business in order to mitigate any potential legal or financial repercussions. The problem, of course, is that fear is not a sustainable motivator. Luckily, for x it's not just fear that's driving this growth. It has also been able to secure a new base of advertisers, including small and medium sized businesses, which is something that Twitter historically struggled with. The problem there is that these advertisers have less money to spend, and so while they're helping to prop up the growth, we're still not seeing spending levels reach the same heights as they were prior to musks takeover.

Look first, I would say that this is a recovery, not a rebound. Even with the growth that we are projecting, X's ad business in twenty twenty five is still going to be smaller than Twitter's ad business was back in twenty nineteen, and to your question, some of this growth is actually being driven by fear. There are plenty of advertisers out there now who see spending on xcess kind of a cost of doing business in order to mitigate any potential legal or financial repercussions. The problem, of course, is that fear is not a sustainable motivator. Luckily, for x it's not just fear that's driving this growth. It has also been able to secure a new base of advertisers, including small and medium sized businesses, which is something that Twitter historically struggled with. The problem there is that these advertisers have less money to spend, and so while they're helping to prop up the growth, we're still not seeing spending levels reach the same heights as they were prior to musks takeover.

Okay, so take us back to you.

Okay, so take us back to you.

Put the two and a quarter billion dollars basically expected for twenty twenty five, what is that versus pre forty billion dollar acquisition by Elon and where does it go from there?

Put the two and a quarter billion dollars basically expected for twenty twenty five, what is that versus pre forty billion dollar acquisition by Elon and where does it go from there?

So it's smaller than it was in twenty nineteen, And of course Twitter saw very strong growth like other social ad businesses during the pandemic, which means that pretty much all of that growth that it gained is lost.

So it's smaller than it was in twenty nineteen, And of course Twitter saw very strong growth like other social ad businesses during the pandemic, which means that pretty much all of that growth that it gained is lost.

We're still expecting.

We're still expecting.

The ad business to continue growing in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven, which is the end of our forecast, but of course we have less visibility into those years because the situation is still incredibly volatile. There's still a lot of concerns about brand safety among advertisers, and as those attitudes continue to evolve, we could see shifts in spending. Of course, there's also the economic uncertainty that's impacting advertising budgets, as well as the uncertainty at TikTok, so there's a lot of different moving parts that could change how advertisers spend their budgets.

The ad business to continue growing in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven, which is the end of our forecast, but of course we have less visibility into those years because the situation is still incredibly volatile. There's still a lot of concerns about brand safety among advertisers, and as those attitudes continue to evolve, we could see shifts in spending. Of course, there's also the economic uncertainty that's impacting advertising budgets, as well as the uncertainty at TikTok, so there's a lot of different moving parts that could change how advertisers spend their budgets.

When you talk of the advertisers who are coming back, whether it's through feral or a desire to access new products, have the main ones that took on air on comeback as Disney comeback, for example.

When you talk of the advertisers who are coming back, whether it's through feral or a desire to access new products, have the main ones that took on air on comeback as Disney comeback, for example.

We don't have an exact list of all of the advertisers that have returned. What we do know is that many of the big tech advertisers have returned. There was also reports that Apple, for example, which was once a target of musks has returned, but there's plenty of evidence to show that many of these companies are returning to spend, though again not at the same levels as previously.

We don't have an exact list of all of the advertisers that have returned. What we do know is that many of the big tech advertisers have returned. There was also reports that Apple, for example, which was once a target of musks has returned, but there's plenty of evidence to show that many of these companies are returning to spend, though again not at the same levels as previously.

I like how you brought in TikTok there as well. We're all waiting as to what April the fifth really brings.

I like how you brought in TikTok there as well. We're all waiting as to what April the fifth really brings.

But would X benefit.

But would X benefit.

From TikTok being taken off the scene. It feels like it's always a Meta driver rather than an X driver.

From TikTok being taken off the scene. It feels like it's always a Meta driver rather than an X driver.

So the biggest beneficiaries of TikTok disappearing would be Meta and YouTube. Because of Instagram reels and YouTube shorts, there are obviously the most natural fits for users, for creators, and for advertisers. In January, we actually released an analysis that showed that about fifty percent of reallocated TikTok AD dollars in the US would go to Meta and YouTube. There would be you know, other spending two other platforms, potentially also X, but mostly to other social platforms like Snapchat, perhaps even Pinterest. We saw some of that during TikTok's brief shutdown, as well as other players competitors to TikTok and other industries thinking about retail media like Amazon or even streaming services because TikTok touches so many aspects of our digital lives.

So the biggest beneficiaries of TikTok disappearing would be Meta and YouTube. Because of Instagram reels and YouTube shorts, there are obviously the most natural fits for users, for creators, and for advertisers. In January, we actually released an analysis that showed that about fifty percent of reallocated TikTok AD dollars in the US would go to Meta and YouTube. There would be you know, other spending two other platforms, potentially also X, but mostly to other social platforms like Snapchat, perhaps even Pinterest. We saw some of that during TikTok's brief shutdown, as well as other players competitors to TikTok and other industries thinking about retail media like Amazon or even streaming services because TikTok touches so many aspects of our digital lives.

Very briefly, we've only got about thirty seconds. The competitors to X, are they thriving or not?

Very briefly, we've only got about thirty seconds. The competitors to X, are they thriving or not?

Well, what's been really interesting to see is there's been a resurgence now as well in growth in some of these competitors. We saw after the election, of course that Threads and Blue Sky saw many new users coming onto the platform, and that seems to be sticking. But even as X has lost users, both of those platforms remain significantly smaller.

Well, what's been really interesting to see is there's been a resurgence now as well in growth in some of these competitors. We saw after the election, of course that Threads and Blue Sky saw many new users coming onto the platform, and that seems to be sticking. But even as X has lost users, both of those platforms remain significantly smaller.

A's Menemberg. Great to have you back, e Marketer. We appreciate it. Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology. I'm Karen Hid and New York.

A's Menemberg. Great to have you back, e Marketer. We appreciate it. Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology. I'm Karen Hid and New York.

Go quick check on these markets.

Go quick check on these markets.

Because of a few days of stability, we're coming back off. Maybe we're selling some of the moves that we've seen in the last couple of days when we're taking a few profits after Monday's stellar charge higher of more than two percent on this particular benchmark, and we sustained growth yesterday, but we're now a five percentage point and really it's a magnificent seven that tuguslower. We're off by eight point well, got that's one point eight percent. Let's call it on this particular index, and really it's the likes of in video which are off by a significant amount.

Because of a few days of stability, we're coming back off. Maybe we're selling some of the moves that we've seen in the last couple of days when we're taking a few profits after Monday's stellar charge higher of more than two percent on this particular benchmark, and we sustained growth yesterday, but we're now a five percentage point and really it's a magnificent seven that tuguslower. We're off by eight point well, got that's one point eight percent. Let's call it on this particular index, and really it's the likes of in video which are off by a significant amount.

So to is Tesla. Take a look at what that particular name is doing. We know it's volatile.

So to is Tesla. Take a look at what that particular name is doing. We know it's volatile.

We know that the bulls like Kathy would remain in this name, but we're currently off by almost four percent. Had a dramatically good day on Monday, pushing up more than nine ten percent. However, we did then get the byd strength. We also got the worries about European sales and we see some of that come off on Tesla. Rivian off by three tens and percent. There's some interesting news there of a spinoff when it comes to smaller mobility forms of transport. Let's get to that work with Bloomberg's David Welch and I just want to go to the news on Rivian in particular. We understand that they're spinning off what's going to be called Also they're investing up to one hundred million dollars coming from another player, Evolve as well. This is about small mobility. Where is there a gap in the markets that David.

We know that the bulls like Kathy would remain in this name, but we're currently off by almost four percent. Had a dramatically good day on Monday, pushing up more than nine ten percent. However, we did then get the byd strength. We also got the worries about European sales and we see some of that come off on Tesla. Rivian off by three tens and percent. There's some interesting news there of a spinoff when it comes to smaller mobility forms of transport. Let's get to that work with Bloomberg's David Welch and I just want to go to the news on Rivian in particular. We understand that they're spinning off what's going to be called Also they're investing up to one hundred million dollars coming from another player, Evolve as well. This is about small mobility. Where is there a gap in the markets that David.

You know that there's a market for smaller urban type vehicles that you don't need to go as far on a charge as the bigger vehicles Rivian sells. I think one of the issues Rivin has is right now they're selling expensive pickup trucks and SUVs that happen to be electric, and people like them. They're sort of a unique style compared to what Tesla has and compared to what Ford and General Motors sell for electric pickup trucks. But they're still very pricey for what they are at the end of the day, and it's tough for them to get scale and really drive their costs down just selling those vehicles. And they've got other models coming they would have more mass appeal. But I think with something like this, you know, the industrial logic behind it would be you're selling more vehicles and getting your battery costs down, which ultimately is how any of these EV companies are going to get into profitability. They've got to get those costs down, and you can't do it on fifty thousand trucks an issue easy year.

You know that there's a market for smaller urban type vehicles that you don't need to go as far on a charge as the bigger vehicles Rivian sells. I think one of the issues Rivin has is right now they're selling expensive pickup trucks and SUVs that happen to be electric, and people like them. They're sort of a unique style compared to what Tesla has and compared to what Ford and General Motors sell for electric pickup trucks. But they're still very pricey for what they are at the end of the day, and it's tough for them to get scale and really drive their costs down just selling those vehicles. And they've got other models coming they would have more mass appeal. But I think with something like this, you know, the industrial logic behind it would be you're selling more vehicles and getting your battery costs down, which ultimately is how any of these EV companies are going to get into profitability. They've got to get those costs down, and you can't do it on fifty thousand trucks an issue easy year.

They call it Microme Mobility Company for also, and I correct myself that it's Rivian and a VC firm Eclipse, who are going to be helping finance all of this.

They call it Microme Mobility Company for also, and I correct myself that it's Rivian and a VC firm Eclipse, who are going to be helping finance all of this.

I mean, this.

I mean, this.

Comes at a time where the competition does seem pretty fierce, even though that Chinese competition can't make its way into the United States. Globally, all eyes on EV, all eyes are more efficient and cheaper models. David compare what's happening with Tesla at the moment. Just why the pressure continuing on the start?

Comes at a time where the competition does seem pretty fierce, even though that Chinese competition can't make its way into the United States. Globally, all eyes on EV, all eyes are more efficient and cheaper models. David compare what's happening with Tesla at the moment. Just why the pressure continuing on the start?

Yeah, Tesa's It's really an interesting case here. I get asked this all the time. Is that the political pressure because of Euon's stance and is his closeness to Donald Trump? And I think that's probably true on the margin, maybe more than that. There's really not data that tells us how much of that is true. But EV sales were flattening out even before Eon became essentially part of the Trump administration. So they were already losing growth rates as a company. And a lot of that is petition from China. Bui, d we Auto, of those players over there. They have very good products, they're coming on strong. It's tougher for foreign companies operating in China to get the sales they want. That includes Tesla. I think there is political pressure in Europe that's causing Tesla to loose some sales. And Dan, don't forget they're changing over the model Y, which means they've got production down. That always cuts sales for any car company. I think that's also a big piece of it. And then the thing you just mentioned competition. You know, in Europe you've got all the European automakers adding more evs and coming on pretty strong. In the US, you've got Hondai Kia selling a lot of new product. General Motors is bringing out a lot of new EV's and they're ramping up production right now. So there's competition here that wasn't here two or three years ago that Tesla has to deal with. And by the way, you know the model hy is being changed over. But this is a this is a product line that's pretty stale with the exception of cyber Truck, and cyber Truck is too quirky to sell in really big numbers.

Yeah, Tesa's It's really an interesting case here. I get asked this all the time. Is that the political pressure because of Euon's stance and is his closeness to Donald Trump? And I think that's probably true on the margin, maybe more than that. There's really not data that tells us how much of that is true. But EV sales were flattening out even before Eon became essentially part of the Trump administration. So they were already losing growth rates as a company. And a lot of that is petition from China. Bui, d we Auto, of those players over there. They have very good products, they're coming on strong. It's tougher for foreign companies operating in China to get the sales they want. That includes Tesla. I think there is political pressure in Europe that's causing Tesla to loose some sales. And Dan, don't forget they're changing over the model Y, which means they've got production down. That always cuts sales for any car company. I think that's also a big piece of it. And then the thing you just mentioned competition. You know, in Europe you've got all the European automakers adding more evs and coming on pretty strong. In the US, you've got Hondai Kia selling a lot of new product. General Motors is bringing out a lot of new EV's and they're ramping up production right now. So there's competition here that wasn't here two or three years ago that Tesla has to deal with. And by the way, you know the model hy is being changed over. But this is a this is a product line that's pretty stale with the exception of cyber Truck, and cyber Truck is too quirky to sell in really big numbers.

Suddenly, as David Wells, thanks so much for joining us. Meanwhile, let's just go to another key stock you cook. Coop and I on game Stop is having a stellar day. It's up the most since June of last year. That's as bitcoin is interestingly off by one undre quarter percent eighty six thousand. But these two stories are linked. Game Stop is up more than fifteen percent because they announced after their earnings yesterday that they are indeed going to move forward with having bitcoin on their own balance sheet, and another company that's doing it or following Michael Saylor of course with strategy, but many others have done it. Block for example, think of the way in which they saw crypto on their balance sheet. Bitcoin currently off by one and quarter percent, so GameStop and not enough to drive it higher. But this comes in the context of a major crypto summit that's underway in DC at the moment, and legislation regarding digital assets is of course making its way through Congress. Joining US now is Blockchain Association CEO Kristin Smith.

Suddenly, as David Wells, thanks so much for joining us. Meanwhile, let's just go to another key stock you cook. Coop and I on game Stop is having a stellar day. It's up the most since June of last year. That's as bitcoin is interestingly off by one undre quarter percent eighty six thousand. But these two stories are linked. Game Stop is up more than fifteen percent because they announced after their earnings yesterday that they are indeed going to move forward with having bitcoin on their own balance sheet, and another company that's doing it or following Michael Saylor of course with strategy, but many others have done it. Block for example, think of the way in which they saw crypto on their balance sheet. Bitcoin currently off by one and quarter percent, so GameStop and not enough to drive it higher. But this comes in the context of a major crypto summit that's underway in DC at the moment, and legislation regarding digital assets is of course making its way through Congress. Joining US now is Blockchain Association CEO Kristin Smith.

I just want to start on.

I just want to start on.

The idea of more companies storing bitcoin or other crypto on.

The idea of more companies storing bitcoin or other crypto on.

The balance sheet.

The balance sheet.

Is that because the moon music is changing? Is that because regulation is fine creeping through?

Is that because the moon music is changing? Is that because regulation is fine creeping through?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And I think we've had such progress in Washington, Caroline that I think it's pretty clear across institutions, across traditional companies, across those who are managing treasuries of large organizations, that digital assets are something they should be thinking about. I was down in up in New York last week at the Digital Assets Summit, and the amount of enthusiasm and excitement amongst the trade FI and institutional investors was was really great. And I think that's extending to companies as well. So I think it's smart. I think something a lot of companies are looking at, and I think we're going to see more announcements like this going forward.

And I think we've had such progress in Washington, Caroline that I think it's pretty clear across institutions, across traditional companies, across those who are managing treasuries of large organizations, that digital assets are something they should be thinking about. I was down in up in New York last week at the Digital Assets Summit, and the amount of enthusiasm and excitement amongst the trade FI and institutional investors was was really great. And I think that's extending to companies as well. So I think it's smart. I think something a lot of companies are looking at, and I think we're going to see more announcements like this going forward.

It's smart because game Stop gets a pop in its stock when actually it's revenues are down twenty eight percent year on year.

It's smart because game Stop gets a pop in its stock when actually it's revenues are down twenty eight percent year on year.

There may be to sort of harness what feels.

There may be to sort of harness what feels.

Like a feel good effect that retail likes to trade off.

Like a feel good effect that retail likes to trade off.

So tell us actually fundamentally.

So tell us actually fundamentally.

How this sort of helps businesses and how you see regulation in particular supporting crypto right now.

How this sort of helps businesses and how you see regulation in particular supporting crypto right now.

Yeah, Well, I think the regulatory clarity is key. This is something that the industry has been talking about for many years. Now we're seeing a lot of progress. We've seen a lot of actions taken to undo the damaging policies that were put in place when Gary Gunsler was the head of the SEC, and we're seeing Congress do a lot of work to establish and put the legislation in place that we need. It seems like every week here in Washington we have another vote on crypto. You know, two weeks ago we had the Senate Banking Committee, which very rarely holds markups, had a vote on stable coin legislation. We're expecting a House committee to do the same on the counterpart legislation next week. We also have the final vote to undo the tax policy that President Biden put out at the very very last days of his term. Is going to be repealed by Congress this week. So we're seeing steps. There's a lot of momentum. There's still a lot of work to do, but I think, you know, we've got the White House, we've got the leaders in the House and the Senate are all communicating, they're all talking together, and they all want to get this done. And I think it's a cornerstone of sort of the administration in Congress's priorities for making the US more competitive, more innovative, and more modern. And so I think that does, going back to your original question, give companies some comfort that they can look at at these assets as something that will be more stable, that will be welcome, and something that they need to be thinking about going forward.

Yeah, Well, I think the regulatory clarity is key. This is something that the industry has been talking about for many years. Now we're seeing a lot of progress. We've seen a lot of actions taken to undo the damaging policies that were put in place when Gary Gunsler was the head of the SEC, and we're seeing Congress do a lot of work to establish and put the legislation in place that we need. It seems like every week here in Washington we have another vote on crypto. You know, two weeks ago we had the Senate Banking Committee, which very rarely holds markups, had a vote on stable coin legislation. We're expecting a House committee to do the same on the counterpart legislation next week. We also have the final vote to undo the tax policy that President Biden put out at the very very last days of his term. Is going to be repealed by Congress this week. So we're seeing steps. There's a lot of momentum. There's still a lot of work to do, but I think, you know, we've got the White House, we've got the leaders in the House and the Senate are all communicating, they're all talking together, and they all want to get this done. And I think it's a cornerstone of sort of the administration in Congress's priorities for making the US more competitive, more innovative, and more modern. And so I think that does, going back to your original question, give companies some comfort that they can look at at these assets as something that will be more stable, that will be welcome, and something that they need to be thinking about going forward.

Whil's not being tackled you'd like to see tackled from a regulatory perspective, Kristin, You know.

Whil's not being tackled you'd like to see tackled from a regulatory perspective, Kristin, You know.

It's interesting they're really covering the list. I think it's two steps. Like I was saying, the first step is undoing the policies of the past. We've seen the SEC dismiss litigation across the board in the industry. We're seeing Congress fix this IRS rule that was enacted late in the administration. And we're seeing agencies like the occ UNDO some of the letters and interpretive guidance that they had put in place over the past four years. It made it very difficult for crypto to integrate with the banking world. And then, you know, in terms of what we need to get done, we need a stable coin framework, we need a market structure framework. But I think there's also a lot of interesting things going on with tokenization. The SEC just announced yesterday they're doing a series of round tables on various topics and are trying to figure out what they have within the existing authority that they have that they can do to help make this space more competitive.

It's interesting they're really covering the list. I think it's two steps. Like I was saying, the first step is undoing the policies of the past. We've seen the SEC dismiss litigation across the board in the industry. We're seeing Congress fix this IRS rule that was enacted late in the administration. And we're seeing agencies like the occ UNDO some of the letters and interpretive guidance that they had put in place over the past four years. It made it very difficult for crypto to integrate with the banking world. And then, you know, in terms of what we need to get done, we need a stable coin framework, we need a market structure framework. But I think there's also a lot of interesting things going on with tokenization. The SEC just announced yesterday they're doing a series of round tables on various topics and are trying to figure out what they have within the existing authority that they have that they can do to help make this space more competitive.

So, you know, we're.

So, you know, we're.

Really excited about it.

Really excited about it.

It's a lot of work to do.

It's a lot of work to do.

I think everyone in the crypto policy space feels like they're ready for a vacation. But we're not gonna let down now. We've got a lot of work to get done and potentially a short time to do it. But I think once in place, it will be lasting and it's something that will allow the US to be competitive for decades to come.

I think everyone in the crypto policy space feels like they're ready for a vacation. But we're not gonna let down now. We've got a lot of work to get done and potentially a short time to do it. But I think once in place, it will be lasting and it's something that will allow the US to be competitive for decades to come.

Briefly, Kristen, is enough thing done to sort of get rid of the tonishing effect that KRYPTI sometimes have the idea that David Sachs, for example, has done a lot to make explicit. He's sold down his assets, his exposure to all these things. But when you've got well, ultimately game stops like a mean name getting in on bitcoin.

Briefly, Kristen, is enough thing done to sort of get rid of the tonishing effect that KRYPTI sometimes have the idea that David Sachs, for example, has done a lot to make explicit. He's sold down his assets, his exposure to all these things. But when you've got well, ultimately game stops like a mean name getting in on bitcoin.

And then you have some sense, and I don't know it's.

And then you have some sense, and I don't know it's.

Not factual, but there's a sense from those out there that many ways people are benefiting from crypto doing well over in the administration.

Not factual, but there's a sense from those out there that many ways people are benefiting from crypto doing well over in the administration.

Is enough being done to tackle that?

Is enough being done to tackle that?

Yeah, you know, I think that's an interesting question. I think, you know, David Sachs took a steps that were absolutely appropriate for him to do by selling off his positions and funds and various investments I think that is a smart thing to do, you know. I do think there are a lot of folks within the Trump family that are obviously very interested in this space. But I think the important thing though, this is really important work that we need to get done and get across the finish line. And I think there are a lot of different policy makers across the agencies, Congress and others that are really committed to doing this and that this is something that should benefit everyone who wants to participate in this ecosystem, including corporations and trad FI and institutional investors, et cetera. So I think this is a space that's only going to grow over time and that we'll see more innovation that is built on top of these blockchain networks.

Yeah, you know, I think that's an interesting question. I think, you know, David Sachs took a steps that were absolutely appropriate for him to do by selling off his positions and funds and various investments I think that is a smart thing to do, you know. I do think there are a lot of folks within the Trump family that are obviously very interested in this space. But I think the important thing though, this is really important work that we need to get done and get across the finish line. And I think there are a lot of different policy makers across the agencies, Congress and others that are really committed to doing this and that this is something that should benefit everyone who wants to participate in this ecosystem, including corporations and trad FI and institutional investors, et cetera. So I think this is a space that's only going to grow over time and that we'll see more innovation that is built on top of these blockchain networks.

Christmas Smith. Always great to have you on the show.

Christmas Smith. Always great to have you on the show.

Thank you, Blockchain Association CEO, you are coming up more and trad five meets Fintech. Mercury hits a three and a half billion dollar valuation after raising three hundred million dollars in its latest round. Will be speaking with the CEO in Madaconlex. This is Blomberg Technology. Fintech firm Mercury has just announced a Series C funding of three hundred million dollars. It's been led by Sequoia Capital and the latest round helping push the company's evaluation and a half billion dollars.

Thank you, Blockchain Association CEO, you are coming up more and trad five meets Fintech. Mercury hits a three and a half billion dollar valuation after raising three hundred million dollars in its latest round. Will be speaking with the CEO in Madaconlex. This is Blomberg Technology. Fintech firm Mercury has just announced a Series C funding of three hundred million dollars. It's been led by Sequoia Capital and the latest round helping push the company's evaluation and a half billion dollars.

Here to discuss is imad Achun.

Here to discuss is imad Achun.

Mercury CEO, And well, what the money is for? Therefore, Iman, I understand there's new products coming along.

Mercury CEO, And well, what the money is for? Therefore, Iman, I understand there's new products coming along.

Yeah, we've actually been profitable for the last ten quarters. We did five hundred million revenue last year, so we're really seeing this money is kind of helping us invest in new products, but also giving us a cushion kind of we could do for future acquisitions and things like that. Last year we launched a bunch of new products, including invoicing, Accounts, Payable, and Mercury Personal. So we're expanding from serving just businesses to consumers as well.

Yeah, we've actually been profitable for the last ten quarters. We did five hundred million revenue last year, so we're really seeing this money is kind of helping us invest in new products, but also giving us a cushion kind of we could do for future acquisitions and things like that. Last year we launched a bunch of new products, including invoicing, Accounts, Payable, and Mercury Personal. So we're expanding from serving just businesses to consumers as well.

You've got to go there, M and A.

You've got to go there, M and A.

Where would you want to do inorganic as well as organic growth?

Where would you want to do inorganic as well as organic growth?

Then yeah, we'll see.

Then yeah, we'll see.

We made an acquisition last year in the accounting space, but yeah, you know, we haven't we haven't announced anything else. But the interesting thing about banking is there's a lot of places to expand, both in terms of types of customers. So we kind of expanded in the last few years from startups to e commerce and professional services as well as well as kind of these new products that we can build on top of it. We really want to reimagine banking, so it's not just kind of, you know, a dumb account that doesn't do anything. We really wanted to help biber people's finances and help them run their company in the easiest way possible.

We made an acquisition last year in the accounting space, but yeah, you know, we haven't we haven't announced anything else. But the interesting thing about banking is there's a lot of places to expand, both in terms of types of customers. So we kind of expanded in the last few years from startups to e commerce and professional services as well as well as kind of these new products that we can build on top of it. We really want to reimagine banking, so it's not just kind of, you know, a dumb account that doesn't do anything. We really wanted to help biber people's finances and help them run their company in the easiest way possible.

Reported that Sequoia Capital was particularly impressed by the way you hand handled the influx of demand coming after the collapse of SVB, and certainly Mercury and Brex were everywhere.

Reported that Sequoia Capital was particularly impressed by the way you hand handled the influx of demand coming after the collapse of SVB, and certainly Mercury and Brex were everywhere.

We were talking that.

We were talking that.

Amount of client deposits that came in. How much have you retained? How have you managed to build from that moment?

Amount of client deposits that came in. How much have you retained? How have you managed to build from that moment?

Yeah, yeah, we had two billion and basically that one week time period, we retained ninety five percent of them six months later, and we've grown significantly since then. So just last year we grew transaction volume by sixty four percent. Where you know, our scale is much much bigger than even two years ago when that SBB failure I happen.

Yeah, yeah, we had two billion and basically that one week time period, we retained ninety five percent of them six months later, and we've grown significantly since then. So just last year we grew transaction volume by sixty four percent. Where you know, our scale is much much bigger than even two years ago when that SBB failure I happen.

You're not technically a bank, so how are you thinking about broadening out? You of course have relationships with underlying banks that give you the ability to help with these products. We also think of building software ultimately, what do you want to be thought of? How are we going to say this is what mercury is in five years time.

You're not technically a bank, so how are you thinking about broadening out? You of course have relationships with underlying banks that give you the ability to help with these products. We also think of building software ultimately, what do you want to be thought of? How are we going to say this is what mercury is in five years time.

Yeah, we kind of think about like reimagining banking. So you know, one of the benefits of working with kind of partner banks is we actually work with a sweet network underneath the hood. So we provide everyone five million in FDIC insurance, so the vast majority of the deposits we have actually FDIC insured. And we work with kind of two main partner banks right now, Choice Financial and Column Bank. And you know, we kind of think like if there was a software company that built great software for banking, what would it be. And that's the whey we think about like kind of broadening out the suite and really want to redefine banking or a banking shouldn't just be a bank account. It should be a lot more. And I think in ten years it will be weird to do invoices not from a bank account. It will be weird to kind of have spend management and corporate card that's not part of your banking.

Yeah, we kind of think about like reimagining banking. So you know, one of the benefits of working with kind of partner banks is we actually work with a sweet network underneath the hood. So we provide everyone five million in FDIC insurance, so the vast majority of the deposits we have actually FDIC insured. And we work with kind of two main partner banks right now, Choice Financial and Column Bank. And you know, we kind of think like if there was a software company that built great software for banking, what would it be. And that's the whey we think about like kind of broadening out the suite and really want to redefine banking or a banking shouldn't just be a bank account. It should be a lot more. And I think in ten years it will be weird to do invoices not from a bank account. It will be weird to kind of have spend management and corporate card that's not part of your banking.

You're using funds I understand to help give liquidity to your talent, your workforce, or doing a tender offer. But many will be thinking where's the next step? The exit? In many ways, what in ten years time will merchur we be publicly listed, Will you have been bought by someone?

You're using funds I understand to help give liquidity to your talent, your workforce, or doing a tender offer. But many will be thinking where's the next step? The exit? In many ways, what in ten years time will merchur we be publicly listed, Will you have been bought by someone?

Will you bought others?

Will you bought others?

Yeah, you know, I don't think of this as like a thing I want to exit. I want to run this company for the next twenty years. There's a lot we can do and we will do. I think being public along the way is part of the journey. So yeah, there's nothing in minute. We only actually launched six ish years ago, so I still think of us as as a pretty young company. But yeah, it's important for employees to have access to some liquidity rather than you know, waiting another ten years or whatever it is till we go public. So we wanted to provide that as an option. I'm sure lots of them want to, you know, buy houses or do nice things for themselves. And yeah, I think as we're profitable, it makes sense to make that available to our employees.

Yeah, you know, I don't think of this as like a thing I want to exit. I want to run this company for the next twenty years. There's a lot we can do and we will do. I think being public along the way is part of the journey. So yeah, there's nothing in minute. We only actually launched six ish years ago, so I still think of us as as a pretty young company. But yeah, it's important for employees to have access to some liquidity rather than you know, waiting another ten years or whatever it is till we go public. So we wanted to provide that as an option. I'm sure lots of them want to, you know, buy houses or do nice things for themselves. And yeah, I think as we're profitable, it makes sense to make that available to our employees.

In mad it's great speaking with you and Mada Alphen come back, Mercury CEO.

In mad it's great speaking with you and Mada Alphen come back, Mercury CEO.

Congrats on the rays.

Congrats on the rays.

Meanwhile, scientists, they are laying the foundation for a field that may blur the lines between the biological and the synthetic.

Meanwhile, scientists, they are laying the foundation for a field that may blur the lines between the biological and the synthetic.

It's called biocomputing.

It's called biocomputing.

Human neurons emerge the chips with startups building sci fi alternatives to traditional hardware. Could the living human brain cells end up actually powering AI? Primer It's the latest bluem meg original series takes a deep dive into this. This is a simulation of Pong, the iconic nineteen seventies arcade game, where you use this paddle to stop this ball from getting past you.

Human neurons emerge the chips with startups building sci fi alternatives to traditional hardware. Could the living human brain cells end up actually powering AI? Primer It's the latest bluem meg original series takes a deep dive into this. This is a simulation of Pong, the iconic nineteen seventies arcade game, where you use this paddle to stop this ball from getting past you.

It's a pretty simple game for US humans.

It's a pretty simple game for US humans.

To learn, and as well, quite recently, with advancements in AI, computers can learn it too.

To learn, and as well, quite recently, with advancements in AI, computers can learn it too.

But today Pong.

But today Pong.

Has a new kind of player, not a computer human. A cluster of living human brain cells on top of a silicon chip can play pomp yep.

Has a new kind of player, not a computer human. A cluster of living human brain cells on top of a silicon chip can play pomp yep.

Researchers in a.

Researchers in a.

Lab taught a tiny clump of neurons too, in a sense, play this video game, but it's more than just a game. Some believe merging biology with computing could upend our approach to artificial intelligence.