Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed ludlow.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed ludlow.

A Live from New York.

A Live from New York.

I'm Caroline Hyde and I'm Jackie Devalis in Washington. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.

I'm Caroline Hyde and I'm Jackie Devalis in Washington. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.

The FTC is charging ahead with the Biden antitrust probe of Microsoft. Will discuss what this means for Trump's new FTC chair and his scrutiny of tech giants. Plus Intel shares jumping following the news of a new CEO tasking Lipbutan with restoring the company's fortunes after a slump in earnings and market share, and a conversation with podcaster turned investor Harry stebbings On from twenty VC on how one hundred and twenty tech founders are joining his project to boost European startups. But first to check in on these markets, and we were raised yesterday's gains then as that one hundred currently off by about a percentage point after yesterday, we've got a bit of a reprieve and a push higher of more than a percentage point overall, we're once again filled with anxiety about US growth and about basically still selling some of your key winners, largely within the Magnificent seven. Go into some of the individual movers. Look the earnings flow still not living up to expectations. I'm looking at Adobe down crushed another eleven percent. This is that their fiscal first quarter delivered ten percent growth in revenue and lived up to expectations. But the current quarter that we're operating in, the guidance not good enough. The full year guidance remaining the same analysts wanted more.

The FTC is charging ahead with the Biden antitrust probe of Microsoft. Will discuss what this means for Trump's new FTC chair and his scrutiny of tech giants. Plus Intel shares jumping following the news of a new CEO tasking Lipbutan with restoring the company's fortunes after a slump in earnings and market share, and a conversation with podcaster turned investor Harry stebbings On from twenty VC on how one hundred and twenty tech founders are joining his project to boost European startups. But first to check in on these markets, and we were raised yesterday's gains then as that one hundred currently off by about a percentage point after yesterday, we've got a bit of a reprieve and a push higher of more than a percentage point overall, we're once again filled with anxiety about US growth and about basically still selling some of your key winners, largely within the Magnificent seven. Go into some of the individual movers. Look the earnings flow still not living up to expectations. I'm looking at Adobe down crushed another eleven percent. This is that their fiscal first quarter delivered ten percent growth in revenue and lived up to expectations. But the current quarter that we're operating in, the guidance not good enough. The full year guidance remaining the same analysts wanted more.

Many cut their price targets.

Many cut their price targets.

Intel, though Sauls on the back of a new CEO, lip Boutwan, returns he was on the board before, and of course he did that turn around at Cadence. Will dig into that in a moment. But Microsoft just for about two ten percent, but is contributing to the points decline on the nasat one hundred. But what does it mean that the FTC is looking into that anti competition analysis Microsoft? Bloomberg reporter Josh Cisco is with us. You look at Microsoft from an FTC and anti competitive concern area here, Josh, what is it that the FTC is doing because we all thought a new Trump administration would mean maybe less struttinly on tech giants. It doesn't seem to be the case.

Intel, though Sauls on the back of a new CEO, lip Boutwan, returns he was on the board before, and of course he did that turn around at Cadence. Will dig into that in a moment. But Microsoft just for about two ten percent, but is contributing to the points decline on the nasat one hundred. But what does it mean that the FTC is looking into that anti competition analysis Microsoft? Bloomberg reporter Josh Cisco is with us. You look at Microsoft from an FTC and anti competitive concern area here, Josh, what is it that the FTC is doing because we all thought a new Trump administration would mean maybe less struttinly on tech giants. It doesn't seem to be the case.

Well, I mean from the beginning, since before Trump took office, both himself and his allies have made it pretty clear that tech is going to be a key focus of their enforcement and regulatory efforts. It's we're still a little sort of uncertain about how exactly that will play out, but this is the fact that they are picking up this investigation and carrying it forward from the end of the Biden administration is a major sign that they're going to keep keep an aggressive stance against the tech sector.

Well, I mean from the beginning, since before Trump took office, both himself and his allies have made it pretty clear that tech is going to be a key focus of their enforcement and regulatory efforts. It's we're still a little sort of uncertain about how exactly that will play out, but this is the fact that they are picking up this investigation and carrying it forward from the end of the Biden administration is a major sign that they're going to keep keep an aggressive stance against the tech sector.

Remind us what other cases this FTC commissioner is inheriting from the Biden administration, because this could potentially offer clues as to how those might result in as well.

Remind us what other cases this FTC commissioner is inheriting from the Biden administration, because this could potentially offer clues as to how those might result in as well.

Yeah, so he's got a bunch of stuff both on the competition anti trust and sort of the consumer protection side as well that the agency does both enforcement in both areas.

Yeah, so he's got a bunch of stuff both on the competition anti trust and sort of the consumer protection side as well that the agency does both enforcement in both areas.

They're going to trial.

They're going to trial.

Next month against Meta in a case that was first filed actually in the initial Trump administration in December twenty twenty to break up META, and that's finally going to trial in April that was sort of filed at the end of Trump's first term, and then FTC chair under Biden, Lena Khan, she carried that forward. They also have a lawsuit against Amazon. They could potentially lead to major divestitures of Amazon's business. That's not going to trial for about a year and a half. There's another loss of your challenging Amazon's prime subscription business and how how the FTC says it doesn't allow consumers to cancel easily.

Next month against Meta in a case that was first filed actually in the initial Trump administration in December twenty twenty to break up META, and that's finally going to trial in April that was sort of filed at the end of Trump's first term, and then FTC chair under Biden, Lena Khan, she carried that forward. They also have a lawsuit against Amazon. They could potentially lead to major divestitures of Amazon's business. That's not going to trial for about a year and a half. There's another loss of your challenging Amazon's prime subscription business and how how the FTC says it doesn't allow consumers to cancel easily.

Those are just a few of the big ones.

Those are just a few of the big ones.

Yeah, and interesting that resources is an issue, is why they delay the Amazon investigation, Josh, that you've been reporting on. But the context here is one where also the DOJ seems to still be going after that Google investigation and some of the really pretty tough remedies that they're eyeing to ensure that Google doesn't seem in some way a limitation on competition. From the context of overall this administration, it looks as though big tech is not getting off the hook here, particularly when it comes to AI.

Yeah, and interesting that resources is an issue, is why they delay the Amazon investigation, Josh, that you've been reporting on. But the context here is one where also the DOJ seems to still be going after that Google investigation and some of the really pretty tough remedies that they're eyeing to ensure that Google doesn't seem in some way a limitation on competition. From the context of overall this administration, it looks as though big tech is not getting off the hook here, particularly when it comes to AI.

Yeah, I think that's true.

Yeah, I think that's true.

I mean some of the regulatory stuff around AI safety and other guardrails that's a little bit sort of up in the air, but I think they've made it clear so far that they want to see more than two or three companies sort of dominate the technology, from Nvidia and chips to Microsoft and open Ai and sort of more end user applications. It is, I think, at least for now, going to be a major focus.

I mean some of the regulatory stuff around AI safety and other guardrails that's a little bit sort of up in the air, but I think they've made it clear so far that they want to see more than two or three companies sort of dominate the technology, from Nvidia and chips to Microsoft and open Ai and sort of more end user applications. It is, I think, at least for now, going to be a major focus.

That's Bloomberg's Josh Cisco, thanks so much for joining us for more on Microsoft and the broader tech market. Rischi Jaluria, RBC Capital Market Software Equity Research Managing Director joins us. Now, RACI, this isn't the first time that Microsoft is dealing with a more strict FTC. Is this latest development sparking you to kind of change the risk calculus that you were embedding in your modeling for the coming year or are you mostly brushing it off?

That's Bloomberg's Josh Cisco, thanks so much for joining us for more on Microsoft and the broader tech market. Rischi Jaluria, RBC Capital Market Software Equity Research Managing Director joins us. Now, RACI, this isn't the first time that Microsoft is dealing with a more strict FTC. Is this latest development sparking you to kind of change the risk calculus that you were embedding in your modeling for the coming year or are you mostly brushing it off?

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Look, I don't want to say I'm brushing it off, but I do feel like the potential impacts we've been prepared for this.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Look, I don't want to say I'm brushing it off, but I do feel like the potential impacts we've been prepared for this.

This is something that has been.

This is something that has been.

Talked about for a while. And remember I mean Microsoft obviously historically under Bill Gates and later Steve Vahmer had gotten themselves on a little bit of hot water when it came into antitrust, but under Satian Adela, it's definitely been a kinder, gentler Microsoft that has very much embraced interoperability, embraced coopetition, and I think we see that playing out here. You know, they have they obviously were very early to invest in open ai, and they've really gone all in on gen Ai become an AI first company. But you actually notice over the past several years Micro or really sorry pass up of quarters. Microsoft has been diversifying, right, They've been building relationships with other vendors. At the same time, open Ai themselves has been diversifying where they have their own relationship with OCI and including with Stargate. They have their own relationship with Core. We've per the reports out there, and so really feels like Microsoft is doing the right things to show that they're not abusing their position, you know, in terms of the relationship with open ai, and I think it becomes tougher to make an antitrust case against Microsoft with the openI relationship when there is that level of interoperability and the other competitors have these sort of similar relationships. You think about Amazon with Anthropic, you think about Oracle with Coher, even Google buying Deep mind a long time ago, and that's a foundation for their AI efforts. So I think it's going to be a tough argument to make against Microsoft on the anti trust given all of these moves.

Talked about for a while. And remember I mean Microsoft obviously historically under Bill Gates and later Steve Vahmer had gotten themselves on a little bit of hot water when it came into antitrust, but under Satian Adela, it's definitely been a kinder, gentler Microsoft that has very much embraced interoperability, embraced coopetition, and I think we see that playing out here. You know, they have they obviously were very early to invest in open ai, and they've really gone all in on gen Ai become an AI first company. But you actually notice over the past several years Micro or really sorry pass up of quarters. Microsoft has been diversifying, right, They've been building relationships with other vendors. At the same time, open Ai themselves has been diversifying where they have their own relationship with OCI and including with Stargate. They have their own relationship with Core. We've per the reports out there, and so really feels like Microsoft is doing the right things to show that they're not abusing their position, you know, in terms of the relationship with open ai, and I think it becomes tougher to make an antitrust case against Microsoft with the openI relationship when there is that level of interoperability and the other competitors have these sort of similar relationships. You think about Amazon with Anthropic, you think about Oracle with Coher, even Google buying Deep mind a long time ago, and that's a foundation for their AI efforts. So I think it's going to be a tough argument to make against Microsoft on the anti trust given all of these moves.

Rashid, It is interesting, though, when you think back to the inauguration of the current president, how many technology leaders, CEOs, founders were there and many felt that we were coming into a different type of feel for business. But will that be the case, or any of these companies ever going to be able to do decent M and A again, or any of these companies going to be able to dislodge the overall time investment that they have to make in proving they're not anti competitive.

Rashid, It is interesting, though, when you think back to the inauguration of the current president, how many technology leaders, CEOs, founders were there and many felt that we were coming into a different type of feel for business. But will that be the case, or any of these companies ever going to be able to do decent M and A again, or any of these companies going to be able to dislodge the overall time investment that they have to make in proving they're not anti competitive.

Yeah, Look, I think we're probably going to be in a better environment for M and A. I think it'll be hard to get away with these sort of acquisitions that we saw maybe a decade ago or so of you know, Facebook buying Instagram and then WhatsApp and you know, Microsoft making some of these big blockbuster acquisitions.

Yeah, Look, I think we're probably going to be in a better environment for M and A. I think it'll be hard to get away with these sort of acquisitions that we saw maybe a decade ago or so of you know, Facebook buying Instagram and then WhatsApp and you know, Microsoft making some of these big blockbuster acquisitions.

But I still think we're.

But I still think we're.

Going to be in a more favorable environment for M and A. And I think you know, there's going to be scrutiny on there to prove that there's power to prove that, you know, to maybe try to keep the big tech companies in check and in line. But I still think that the idea of splitting up companies divesting assets, that's going to be more unlikely under the new administration. To me, this is kind of just a continued show of wanting to keep them again in line.

Going to be in a more favorable environment for M and A. And I think you know, there's going to be scrutiny on there to prove that there's power to prove that, you know, to maybe try to keep the big tech companies in check and in line. But I still think that the idea of splitting up companies divesting assets, that's going to be more unlikely under the new administration. To me, this is kind of just a continued show of wanting to keep them again in line.

Appreciate how do we reconcile the fact that President Trump has really almost anointed certain tech companies to be the shepherds of AI competitive need here in the US. You have Oracle Open AI as part of the Stargate deal. Could that shield the companies that have stakes in those particular companies a little bit more from you know, some of the FTC scrutiny that we're seeing, or will we see kind of this broader scrutiny across tech overall?

Appreciate how do we reconcile the fact that President Trump has really almost anointed certain tech companies to be the shepherds of AI competitive need here in the US. You have Oracle Open AI as part of the Stargate deal. Could that shield the companies that have stakes in those particular companies a little bit more from you know, some of the FTC scrutiny that we're seeing, or will we see kind of this broader scrutiny across tech overall?

I think we're going to see broader scrutiny across tech, you know, as opposed to at least over the past, or at least relative to the.

I think we're going to see broader scrutiny across tech, you know, as opposed to at least over the past, or at least relative to the.

First Trump administration.

First Trump administration.

But I think it'll be equivalent to what we saw during the Biden administration and maybe taking that one step forward, I do think very much there is a relationship angle to all of this.

But I think it'll be equivalent to what we saw during the Biden administration and maybe taking that one step forward, I do think very much there is a relationship angle to all of this.

So I think your instinct.

So I think your instinct.

And the question is accurate, right, that that companies that have maybe ties to the administration, you know in somewhere, or at least work constructively with them, are going to.

And the question is accurate, right, that that companies that have maybe ties to the administration, you know in somewhere, or at least work constructively with them, are going to.

Be a little bit more protected.

Be a little bit more protected.

And so I think it's in a lot of these companies' interests at least have a good working relationship with pieces of them. But remember the FTC is its own independent entity, right and they you know, even if the chair is appointed by the Trump administration, the way they act should be fully independent.

And so I think it's in a lot of these companies' interests at least have a good working relationship with pieces of them. But remember the FTC is its own independent entity, right and they you know, even if the chair is appointed by the Trump administration, the way they act should be fully independent.

You know.

You know.

Again, I think that the case comes down, especially for Microsoft, to prove that there's some sort of competitive harm, to prove that they are abusing their position, that there are anti trust concerns. And the more work we do on that, the more we see the moves that both Microsoft and open ai are making independent of each other, the diversifying, the embracing of interoperability, the harder I think it is to make it case for anti trust here.

Again, I think that the case comes down, especially for Microsoft, to prove that there's some sort of competitive harm, to prove that they are abusing their position, that there are anti trust concerns. And the more work we do on that, the more we see the moves that both Microsoft and open ai are making independent of each other, the diversifying, the embracing of interoperability, the harder I think it is to make it case for anti trust here.

So Rishi, we then returned just more broadly to fundamentals for the software companies that you cover at the moment, Microsoft being one of them, but you'll cover a whole host I think of Box, I think of Salesforce, I think of Oracle. Software hasn't been as punished as hardware, but we are reevaluating our previous winners, Rishi, And at this moment, do you think that we're hitting a bottom after the setoff of this week.

So Rishi, we then returned just more broadly to fundamentals for the software companies that you cover at the moment, Microsoft being one of them, but you'll cover a whole host I think of Box, I think of Salesforce, I think of Oracle. Software hasn't been as punished as hardware, but we are reevaluating our previous winners, Rishi, And at this moment, do you think that we're hitting a bottom after the setoff of this week.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Look, I think this big sale off that we've had over this week and really in software over the past month. You're right, hasn't been punished as much as the hardware names, but there's been a lot of names that I cover that our high quality business is down thirty percent over the past month on really no fundamental news. In our mind, it is creating some really great buying opportunities, you know. I think, Yeah, some of the big guys like Salesforce and into It, I think are our interesting year. Even going a little bit more down the cap spectrum. I think HubSpot, which is actually a competitor to Salesforce, super attractive name, down thirty percent.

Look, I think this big sale off that we've had over this week and really in software over the past month. You're right, hasn't been punished as much as the hardware names, but there's been a lot of names that I cover that our high quality business is down thirty percent over the past month on really no fundamental news. In our mind, it is creating some really great buying opportunities, you know. I think, Yeah, some of the big guys like Salesforce and into It, I think are our interesting year. Even going a little bit more down the cap spectrum. I think HubSpot, which is actually a competitor to Salesforce, super attractive name, down thirty percent.

It's one of our favorite names here.

It's one of our favorite names here.

Mango dB, which I look at as the next gen Oracle in the database space, really compelling, you know, with this thirty five percent draw down that we've seen over the past month. So I do think it is creating some buying opportunities because remember software, you know, let's see what happens with the broader macro environment of the economy. But software is very much a tariff proof sector, and I think that's an important point to keep in mind as you think about all the rhetoric around tariffs and trade wars.

Mango dB, which I look at as the next gen Oracle in the database space, really compelling, you know, with this thirty five percent draw down that we've seen over the past month. So I do think it is creating some buying opportunities because remember software, you know, let's see what happens with the broader macro environment of the economy. But software is very much a tariff proof sector, and I think that's an important point to keep in mind as you think about all the rhetoric around tariffs and trade wars.

That's Rishi Juluria of RBC Capital Markets, thank you so much for joining us. Still coming up, Open Ai shares its suggestions for AI policy with the Trump administration. We'll have all those details when we come back, Caroline.

That's Rishi Juluria of RBC Capital Markets, thank you so much for joining us. Still coming up, Open Ai shares its suggestions for AI policy with the Trump administration. We'll have all those details when we come back, Caroline.

Meanwhile, we've got to keep an eye on what's happening with Intel while the rest of the market fools. Once again, Intel outperformance by fifteen percent. Why le Boutan returns to the company was on the board until August twenty twenty four. Of course, he did the turnaround for Cadence, and now his task to turn around Intel to improve its market capitalization.

Meanwhile, we've got to keep an eye on what's happening with Intel while the rest of the market fools. Once again, Intel outperformance by fifteen percent. Why le Boutan returns to the company was on the board until August twenty twenty four. Of course, he did the turnaround for Cadence, and now his task to turn around Intel to improve its market capitalization.

This is blue meg technology.

This is blue meg technology.

Opening Eye has responded to a Trump administration request to share ways to boost US competitiveness in the global artificial intelligence race to tell us what they came out with and begs Seth Egerman finely enough.

Opening Eye has responded to a Trump administration request to share ways to boost US competitiveness in the global artificial intelligence race to tell us what they came out with and begs Seth Egerman finely enough.

Less regulation seems to be the vibes.

Less regulation seems to be the vibes.

It's shocking. It's a real wish list of a deregulatory and heavy investment vibe here. Basically, Opening Eye is saying we want laxer rules on copyright, we want more infrastructure investment. And perhaps the most surprising thing is they're asking for a little bit more protection and relief from the patchwork of hundreds of state AI bills out there, saying the government, you're kind of weigh in here and say, if we've worked with you in providing access to our models to review, then give us a little bit of leniency on the many AI bills out there in the country.

It's shocking. It's a real wish list of a deregulatory and heavy investment vibe here. Basically, Opening Eye is saying we want laxer rules on copyright, we want more infrastructure investment. And perhaps the most surprising thing is they're asking for a little bit more protection and relief from the patchwork of hundreds of state AI bills out there, saying the government, you're kind of weigh in here and say, if we've worked with you in providing access to our models to review, then give us a little bit of leniency on the many AI bills out there in the country.

Seth talk to us about what that patchwork currently looks like, because a lot of these are still underway, and it's interesting that they use the word preemption because it hasn't exactly happened yet, but it kind of alludes to the fact that they want that shield. How many bills out there are they afraid of?

Seth talk to us about what that patchwork currently looks like, because a lot of these are still underway, and it's interesting that they use the word preemption because it hasn't exactly happened yet, but it kind of alludes to the fact that they want that shield. How many bills out there are they afraid of?

You know, there's hundreds of believe the number was something like seven hundred iggy currently in discussion right now. These range from bills around you know, deep fakes and bias and AI systems to something like the controversial legislation that we saw moving through California last year that open I was vehemently opposed to. That said we might have civil liability here if you have, you know, critical harms from your AI models.

You know, there's hundreds of believe the number was something like seven hundred iggy currently in discussion right now. These range from bills around you know, deep fakes and bias and AI systems to something like the controversial legislation that we saw moving through California last year that open I was vehemently opposed to. That said we might have civil liability here if you have, you know, critical harms from your AI models.

It's clear OPENII is not so.

It's clear OPENII is not so.

Happy with that, despite having previously said they're in favorite regulation. They just want it to be from the federal government, which has done nothing much to do.

Happy with that, despite having previously said they're in favorite regulation. They just want it to be from the federal government, which has done nothing much to do.

The minute you said copyright, it made me think of what's happening in Europe and the UK in particular.

The minute you said copyright, it made me think of what's happening in Europe and the UK in particular.

We've already seen jd Vance been.

We've already seen jd Vance been.

Put out to Europe to try and fight the good fight and say go away with your regulations. But ultimately the US is one case. How much do they want the US government to do their bidding abroad as well?

Put out to Europe to try and fight the good fight and say go away with your regulations. But ultimately the US is one case. How much do they want the US government to do their bidding abroad as well?

Yeah, it does sound like open is basically saying we want you to go out there and advocate for the fair use regime that they have been begging on for the last couple of years, saying that we have our right to use training data that might be copyright it because it's fair use. We're seeing that other markets outside the US are much more restrictive on that front, and it faces lawsuits in numerous countries and it could be critical to how they developed this technology.

Yeah, it does sound like open is basically saying we want you to go out there and advocate for the fair use regime that they have been begging on for the last couple of years, saying that we have our right to use training data that might be copyright it because it's fair use. We're seeing that other markets outside the US are much more restrictive on that front, and it faces lawsuits in numerous countries and it could be critical to how they developed this technology.

Seth.

Seth.

Another thing that Opening Eye added to their wish list is that they want to use government held data like healthcare data to train their models.

Another thing that Opening Eye added to their wish list is that they want to use government held data like healthcare data to train their models.

How do we think that's going to go over It's.

How do we think that's going to go over It's.

Going to go swimmingly. I'm sure no, I mean, I think again. The point is if copyright becomes too strict and they have a harder time getting the robust amount of data that they need to build new models, they're hoping the government can step in and provide a wealth or resource of other data. I'm sure not everyone will be comfortable having their healthcare information be used to feed these.

Going to go swimmingly. I'm sure no, I mean, I think again. The point is if copyright becomes too strict and they have a harder time getting the robust amount of data that they need to build new models, they're hoping the government can step in and provide a wealth or resource of other data. I'm sure not everyone will be comfortable having their healthcare information be used to feed these.

Models, though, Bloomberg Seth Figureman, thank you so much for joining us. Turning to shares of Adobe that are sinking today after the company gave a disappointing outlook for revenue growth. For more on that, an aer Agrana of Bloomberg Intelligence joins us now to discuss INNEROG sales in the current quarter are expected to be between five point seven to seven billion to five point eight two analysts.

Models, though, Bloomberg Seth Figureman, thank you so much for joining us. Turning to shares of Adobe that are sinking today after the company gave a disappointing outlook for revenue growth. For more on that, an aer Agrana of Bloomberg Intelligence joins us now to discuss INNEROG sales in the current quarter are expected to be between five point seven to seven billion to five point eight two analysts.

Were projecting five point eight.

Were projecting five point eight.

It's really not that far off, So help us understand what investors are worried about.

It's really not that far off, So help us understand what investors are worried about.

Here. Is it the execution or the competition.

Here. Is it the execution or the competition.

Yeah, I've been surprised about the reaction also because you know, if you look at it, they reaffirmed their guidance for the full year and frankly speaking, in the current environment, nobody knows how the economy shapes up. That's not bad at all, you know. From our side. They did give out a lot more details about their AI initiative.

Yeah, I've been surprised about the reaction also because you know, if you look at it, they reaffirmed their guidance for the full year and frankly speaking, in the current environment, nobody knows how the economy shapes up. That's not bad at all, you know. From our side. They did give out a lot more details about their AI initiative.

The thing where the Adobe is It is.

The thing where the Adobe is It is.

Probably the most controversial stock in software right now. The valuation it has been a last i would say year and a half or so. I haven't seen that. I don't even know going back, you know, fifteen twenty years, it was always trading at a premium to some of the marque names.

Probably the most controversial stock in software right now. The valuation it has been a last i would say year and a half or so. I haven't seen that. I don't even know going back, you know, fifteen twenty years, it was always trading at a premium to some of the marque names.

The big issue with Adobe.

The big issue with Adobe.

Is people are worried about their core creative business and what would the future of that business be. Because of free tools, you know, we can develop videos or pictures on the fly.

Is people are worried about their core creative business and what would the future of that business be. Because of free tools, you know, we can develop videos or pictures on the fly.

Then why would you need Adobe? Now?

Then why would you need Adobe? Now?

I think that's way simplified risk. They have a very very strong mote around their products. But again, it's going to take a while before people get comfortable.

I think that's way simplified risk. They have a very very strong mote around their products. But again, it's going to take a while before people get comfortable.

With this story.

With this story.

I feel that was the story even in the hardware names that we saw of last week. Marvel got crushed even when ultimately I lived up to expectations. But if your forecast is in any way off down you go in this in market environment, an K. What else does Adobe need to be doing in terms of also fighting off the perception that it's really hard to get rid of subscriptions and ultimately that they're not getting backed for the bart for the customer.

I feel that was the story even in the hardware names that we saw of last week. Marvel got crushed even when ultimately I lived up to expectations. But if your forecast is in any way off down you go in this in market environment, an K. What else does Adobe need to be doing in terms of also fighting off the perception that it's really hard to get rid of subscriptions and ultimately that they're not getting backed for the bart for the customer.

Yeah, I think you know, frankly speaking, all they need to do is steady execution over the next twelve to twenty four months and put this risk to rest that they will get disrupted because of AI. I think that is the single most important thing for them. They keep on giving more information about how AI is enhancing their business.

Yeah, I think you know, frankly speaking, all they need to do is steady execution over the next twelve to twenty four months and put this risk to rest that they will get disrupted because of AI. I think that is the single most important thing for them. They keep on giving more information about how AI is enhancing their business.

That's going to be there.

That's going to be there.

But one of the things I caught from you know, the stock reaction today is that market still seems to be in a notion of accelerating growth for the entire software industry, which is actually not a good thing for the earning season that's coming up, because given where we are in the economic uncertainty, I don't think there's going to be that much seat growth going forward, or at least in the near term, which means a lot more volatility for these software names going into next quarter or next month.

But one of the things I caught from you know, the stock reaction today is that market still seems to be in a notion of accelerating growth for the entire software industry, which is actually not a good thing for the earning season that's coming up, because given where we are in the economic uncertainty, I don't think there's going to be that much seat growth going forward, or at least in the near term, which means a lot more volatility for these software names going into next quarter or next month.

I love that you're pointing us towards the next earning season where we're still wrapping up. This one never ends. Anama Granta of bloem Megan Intelligences, so good to have you. Thank You's talk about potential IPOs and what this market volatility means for them. Just think of Core Weave. We've been talking about a lot initial public offering, one of the most hotly anticipated stock launches this year.

I love that you're pointing us towards the next earning season where we're still wrapping up. This one never ends. Anama Granta of bloem Megan Intelligences, so good to have you. Thank You's talk about potential IPOs and what this market volatility means for them. Just think of Core Weave. We've been talking about a lot initial public offering, one of the most hotly anticipated stock launches this year.

Will it go ahead?

Will it go ahead?

What does it mean for the investor based mark client CEO zero Capital joins us now twenty five million dollars.

What does it mean for the investor based mark client CEO zero Capital joins us now twenty five million dollars.

Worth of shares of core Weave.

Worth of shares of core Weave.

You are a publicly traded bench fund basically, and you disclosed holdings that you have and ultimately your vision for these businesses core Weave.

You are a publicly traded bench fund basically, and you disclosed holdings that you have and ultimately your vision for these businesses core Weave.

Will it go public?

Will it go public?

Do you think in this market?

Do you think in this market?

Yeah?

Yeah?

So.

So.

Sero Capital is a publicly traded fund that invests in in venture backed companies. We invested in core Weave about a year ago. We found that it's a pretty unique property. As you've been reporting and everybody's been reporting, I've never in the forty years i've been in the business seed and a supply demand and balance in any sort of anything, and the idea of the need for compute and the supply of compute was so offset in core. We've sat right in the place to take advantage of that, so we made an investment. It is the largest investment we've ever made at Cero Capital in the fourteen years that we've been investing, and we're really excited about the IPO. We think that obviously market volatility isn't great for the IPO market. I'm sure you've all been speaking a lot about out that, but I do think that their business model is so strong, their growth is so strong that the market's going to appreciate appreciate it, and I think that we will have the opportunity to go public in this market.

Sero Capital is a publicly traded fund that invests in in venture backed companies. We invested in core Weave about a year ago. We found that it's a pretty unique property. As you've been reporting and everybody's been reporting, I've never in the forty years i've been in the business seed and a supply demand and balance in any sort of anything, and the idea of the need for compute and the supply of compute was so offset in core. We've sat right in the place to take advantage of that, so we made an investment. It is the largest investment we've ever made at Cero Capital in the fourteen years that we've been investing, and we're really excited about the IPO. We think that obviously market volatility isn't great for the IPO market. I'm sure you've all been speaking a lot about out that, but I do think that their business model is so strong, their growth is so strong that the market's going to appreciate appreciate it, and I think that we will have the opportunity to go public in this market.

I mean, the market was a little anxious about the fact that they're so dependent on a couple of key clients, Microsoft being notably one of them.

I mean, the market was a little anxious about the fact that they're so dependent on a couple of key clients, Microsoft being notably one of them.

How do they prove that diversification.

How do they prove that diversification.

There aren't that many hyperscalers out there that need this sort of compute, but they need to show that they can serve more than just two key right.

There aren't that many hyperscalers out there that need this sort of compute, but they need to show that they can serve more than just two key right.

So I think you start with the point that Microsoft obviously is a risk factor in the fact that they're such a large customer and they do service some of the other larger technology type companies, but there aren't that many that actually needed It's sort of like looking at the health insurance industry. There's a handful of health insurers that supply for everybody. In this case, Core Weave supplies compute for the folks that need it, and as compute becomes less expensive and more the be able to diversify their customer base, which I'm sure they'll.

So I think you start with the point that Microsoft obviously is a risk factor in the fact that they're such a large customer and they do service some of the other larger technology type companies, but there aren't that many that actually needed It's sort of like looking at the health insurance industry. There's a handful of health insurers that supply for everybody. In this case, Core Weave supplies compute for the folks that need it, and as compute becomes less expensive and more the be able to diversify their customer base, which I'm sure they'll.

Be able to do.

Be able to do.

Mark, how are you advising your portfolio companies, particularly those that haven't gone public yet. Are there certain sectors that should avoid the public markets and just stay private for now?

Mark, how are you advising your portfolio companies, particularly those that haven't gone public yet. Are there certain sectors that should avoid the public markets and just stay private for now?

Well, I think one of the reasons we built this company fourteen years ago is companies wanted to stay private longer, and that has certainly proved out. When we first started, so there was under one hundred companies that were worth over a billion dollars, there was under twenty companies worth over a billion dollars. Now there's hundreds of them that are worth over a billion dollars, and being public is something that's not for any everybody, and I think companies that want to go public have to understand the merits of going public. I think the advent of the secondary market, as well as the tender market that is available now for these larger companies allows these larger companies to stay private longer and allow them make a determination when it's appropriate for them to go public if they it all need to go public.

Well, I think one of the reasons we built this company fourteen years ago is companies wanted to stay private longer, and that has certainly proved out. When we first started, so there was under one hundred companies that were worth over a billion dollars, there was under twenty companies worth over a billion dollars. Now there's hundreds of them that are worth over a billion dollars, and being public is something that's not for any everybody, and I think companies that want to go public have to understand the merits of going public. I think the advent of the secondary market, as well as the tender market that is available now for these larger companies allows these larger companies to stay private longer and allow them make a determination when it's appropriate for them to go public if they it all need to go public.

Look, you've invested before in the key winners of Facebook, Twitter, Snap Spotify, Lift, but you're also in open Ai. Would you ever envisage that open Ai would do anything but stay private for the time being. They can access deep troves of capital, but they must be one of the most sought after holdings for the retail community and indep people who can't access private funds.

Look, you've invested before in the key winners of Facebook, Twitter, Snap Spotify, Lift, but you're also in open Ai. Would you ever envisage that open Ai would do anything but stay private for the time being. They can access deep troves of capital, but they must be one of the most sought after holdings for the retail community and indep people who can't access private funds.

Sure you know open Ai, which is widely reported, is in the process of going from a not for profit to for profit.

Sure you know open Ai, which is widely reported, is in the process of going from a not for profit to for profit.

Can you support that?

Can you support that?

I think that's appropriate.

I think that's appropriate.

I think if they want to continue to aggregate capital in the way that they need to do to continue on their mission to build out what is a phenomenal company, they're going to need a more normalized capital structure to do that.

I think if they want to continue to aggregate capital in the way that they need to do to continue on their mission to build out what is a phenomenal company, they're going to need a more normalized capital structure to do that.

That's smart. Client, CEO of Cerro Capital, Thank you so much. For joining us.

That's smart. Client, CEO of Cerro Capital, Thank you so much. For joining us.

Welcome back to Blue meg Techology.

Welcome back to Blue meg Techology.

I'm Caroine Hide in New York and I'm Jackie Devalas in Washington. Let's check in on these markets.

I'm Caroine Hide in New York and I'm Jackie Devalas in Washington. Let's check in on these markets.

Once again, the trade wars, the anxiety, this time between Europe and US, styling back up grue. Sentiment is pushed back lower. After yesterday, We've got a reprieve with a lower than expected CPI reading, But once again we're under pressure on the NASAK one hundred off by one point thirty percent, completely erasing yesterday's games. We move under the hood though, of who is outperforming, because most of the Magnificent Seven are on the downside, dragging lower on a points perspective. But look at Intel to the rescue. It's from a points contributor, one of the best performers on the upside.

Once again, the trade wars, the anxiety, this time between Europe and US, styling back up grue. Sentiment is pushed back lower. After yesterday, We've got a reprieve with a lower than expected CPI reading, But once again we're under pressure on the NASAK one hundred off by one point thirty percent, completely erasing yesterday's games. We move under the hood though, of who is outperforming, because most of the Magnificent Seven are on the downside, dragging lower on a points perspective. But look at Intel to the rescue. It's from a points contributor, one of the best performers on the upside.

We're up fifteen percent.

We're up fifteen percent.

And why because lip Broutan comes back not as a board member but actually as CEO starting next week. Bluemeg's Ian King has been following the trails and tribulations of Intel. Is he the right man to steer this company back to good fortune?

And why because lip Broutan comes back not as a board member but actually as CEO starting next week. Bluemeg's Ian King has been following the trails and tribulations of Intel. Is he the right man to steer this company back to good fortune?

I mean, the reaction tells you that people are clearly happy about that. Whether it's a case of them being happy that Intel have just got somebody in that crucial seat at a crucial time for the company, or whether it's because they're enthusiastic about his capabilities and his fit for the role. We'll see how that plays out of the long term, but certainly today people are very happy about that.

I mean, the reaction tells you that people are clearly happy about that. Whether it's a case of them being happy that Intel have just got somebody in that crucial seat at a crucial time for the company, or whether it's because they're enthusiastic about his capabilities and his fit for the role. We'll see how that plays out of the long term, but certainly today people are very happy about that.

Ian talk to us about what this has looked like in the past. Because this is the fourth permanent CEO over the last seven years, Our investors.

Ian talk to us about what this has looked like in the past. Because this is the fourth permanent CEO over the last seven years, Our investors.

Going to look for something more other than just a new person on the.

Going to look for something more other than just a new person on the.

Job because the company also has some support from the Trump administration. But what other questions are still open about whether they can actually execute on this to stay relevant.

Job because the company also has some support from the Trump administration. But what other questions are still open about whether they can actually execute on this to stay relevant.

Yeah, I mean that is the giant question here, and we don't have an answer in terms of what direction he's going to choose.

Yeah, I mean that is the giant question here, and we don't have an answer in terms of what direction he's going to choose.

It's whether.

It's whether.

Bhutan has come in as a CEO who's going to try to make him tell what it once was which was dominant in this industry, or whether he's a caretaker who's going to preside over it being broken up. We didn't really get the answer to that and the things that he put out there publicly yesterday, and that's going to be something that people will be really focused on.

Bhutan has come in as a CEO who's going to try to make him tell what it once was which was dominant in this industry, or whether he's a caretaker who's going to preside over it being broken up. We didn't really get the answer to that and the things that he put out there publicly yesterday, and that's going to be something that people will be really focused on.

And the chip sacked money in When is this eight and a half billion dollars potentially going to come its way? What do you make of his interactions going forward with the current administration do you think yeah?

And the chip sacked money in When is this eight and a half billion dollars potentially going to come its way? What do you make of his interactions going forward with the current administration do you think yeah?

I mean that is a wild card for anybody in the CEO role in the semiconductor industry, whether it's trade, whether it's the Chips Act or anything like that. But all along the Chips Act has been a very structured situation where you have to build these plants, you have to equip them, you have to start production, otherwise you don't get the money. You know, it's very much a mild post kind of triggered events. So they'll have to do what they said they were going to do or they won't get the money anyway, regardless of whether President Trump turns against the Act.

I mean that is a wild card for anybody in the CEO role in the semiconductor industry, whether it's trade, whether it's the Chips Act or anything like that. But all along the Chips Act has been a very structured situation where you have to build these plants, you have to equip them, you have to start production, otherwise you don't get the money. You know, it's very much a mild post kind of triggered events. So they'll have to do what they said they were going to do or they won't get the money anyway, regardless of whether President Trump turns against the Act.

Or not, it's Bloomberg's Ian King. Thank you so much for joining us.

Or not, it's Bloomberg's Ian King. Thank you so much for joining us.

Next, Janet we from RBC Brewin Dolphin, head of market Analysis. Thanks, thank you so much for joining us. Let's talk keep talking about the semiconductor space here. Intel is one big player, but I want to understand how you're thinking about the space coming off of a really busy week that got rattled by tariffs and other announcements the trip and Science Act as another How are you thinking about the space and the catalyst going forward?

Next, Janet we from RBC Brewin Dolphin, head of market Analysis. Thanks, thank you so much for joining us. Let's talk keep talking about the semiconductor space here. Intel is one big player, but I want to understand how you're thinking about the space coming off of a really busy week that got rattled by tariffs and other announcements the trip and Science Act as another How are you thinking about the space and the catalyst going forward?

Hi, thanks for having me.

Hi, thanks for having me.

I think over the longer term, AI would remain a very relevant theme and a very key driver for the semiconductors industry and the whole ecosystem. So on that, we're still very confident on the psycho outlook. There's still plenty of support for that, but unfortunately, we're in a very complex and st microeconomic landscape at the moment, where you know, companies with the most complex supply chains are likely to be at risk, and that is included the semiconductor sector. So unfortunately, given the micro back job, these stars are not doing well at the moment. But I think that valuations have become more attractive for the sector as a whole, and I do believe that if you pick the leaders across the semiconductor ecosystem, you are likely to still do pretty well for the longer term.

I think over the longer term, AI would remain a very relevant theme and a very key driver for the semiconductors industry and the whole ecosystem. So on that, we're still very confident on the psycho outlook. There's still plenty of support for that, but unfortunately, we're in a very complex and st microeconomic landscape at the moment, where you know, companies with the most complex supply chains are likely to be at risk, and that is included the semiconductor sector. So unfortunately, given the micro back job, these stars are not doing well at the moment. But I think that valuations have become more attractive for the sector as a whole, and I do believe that if you pick the leaders across the semiconductor ecosystem, you are likely to still do pretty well for the longer term.

Is Intel a leader?

Is Intel a leader?

I know whether it's an individual name perspective, but would you put that company alongside some of the winning formulas that we see of late with the in videos at the top of the list.

I know whether it's an individual name perspective, but would you put that company alongside some of the winning formulas that we see of late with the in videos at the top of the list.

So for now, probably not. We have to await more strategic direction from the new CEO. I think Intel Face is a bunch of challenges regardless of who is in charge. Basically on the design front is you know, it's lagging our companients like Nvidia and am D, and you know, as a foundry business is also you know, it's direction is not clear and they really have to revive that boundary business in order to secure its position in the sector. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Apparently the market is very enthusiastic about the new.

So for now, probably not. We have to await more strategic direction from the new CEO. I think Intel Face is a bunch of challenges regardless of who is in charge. Basically on the design front is you know, it's lagging our companients like Nvidia and am D, and you know, as a foundry business is also you know, it's direction is not clear and they really have to revive that boundary business in order to secure its position in the sector. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Apparently the market is very enthusiastic about the new.

CEO, Jenna.

CEO, Jenna.

Let's talk about software for a moment, because we had a guest earlier this morning kind of tell us that these software names are a little bit more insulated from a lot of the tariff woes that we're seeing other names really get battered by.

Let's talk about software for a moment, because we had a guest earlier this morning kind of tell us that these software names are a little bit more insulated from a lot of the tariff woes that we're seeing other names really get battered by.

Would you agree with that?

Would you agree with that?

How much more of that protection do some of those names get?

How much more of that protection do some of those names get?

Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. I think in terms of the supply chain impact, I think obviously the hardware the industrial sector would be more badly heat where the software it would be fundamentally less heat. So I would agree on that point. But obviously, given the various macro uncertainties that we have, ultimately a lot of these software companies, if you look at the megacap tech companies there, they're still heavily uh exposed to domestic US economy in terms of say advertising, cloud revenue, et cetera. Ultimately is still dependent on the business cycle. I mean oarguably less cyclical, less sensitive, but it's still dependent.

Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. I think in terms of the supply chain impact, I think obviously the hardware the industrial sector would be more badly heat where the software it would be fundamentally less heat. So I would agree on that point. But obviously, given the various macro uncertainties that we have, ultimately a lot of these software companies, if you look at the megacap tech companies there, they're still heavily uh exposed to domestic US economy in terms of say advertising, cloud revenue, et cetera. Ultimately is still dependent on the business cycle. I mean oarguably less cyclical, less sensitive, but it's still dependent.

And obviously the valuations have.

And obviously the valuations have.

Come off because of the sentiment ed So I guess in the term, I think it is best to stay cautious because we still have potentially a range of uncertainty coming from the reciprocal towerfront that is going to heat the sentiment channel.

Come off because of the sentiment ed So I guess in the term, I think it is best to stay cautious because we still have potentially a range of uncertainty coming from the reciprocal towerfront that is going to heat the sentiment channel.

The reason I'm curious is because more recession fears have started to come to the foe, and when we think about the tech sector, you know, we don't really remember the fact that all of these software names, many of them, and thinking like the social media companies are sensitive to that digital advertising, how much of that is vulnerable to.

The reason I'm curious is because more recession fears have started to come to the foe, and when we think about the tech sector, you know, we don't really remember the fact that all of these software names, many of them, and thinking like the social media companies are sensitive to that digital advertising, how much of that is vulnerable to.

The swings in the economy.

The swings in the economy.

Could there be more vulnerability there going forward if these recession fears do play out.

Could there be more vulnerability there going forward if these recession fears do play out.

Yes, I think there's not only some risks because what we are saying now is basically the heat by the sentiment channel. We haven't really actually seen too much of the hat to actual earnings and the real economy. I mean, there is recession anxiety, but I wouldn't still put that at a central case. But if that eventually did play out, I think there could be more to go in terms of the hit to the earnings outlook. So that would be quite bad to these companies because advertising, I think is very cyplical. They probably the first to be cut. If a company wants to reduce the spending and if consumer confidence is falling, then consumers are going to tighten the belt and spend less. That that's all going to hit all these companies eventually. But I think, as I said, it's currently still the sentiment that is, you know, playing out. There is not really real hits to the earnings yet. We just have to wait and see.

Yes, I think there's not only some risks because what we are saying now is basically the heat by the sentiment channel. We haven't really actually seen too much of the hat to actual earnings and the real economy. I mean, there is recession anxiety, but I wouldn't still put that at a central case. But if that eventually did play out, I think there could be more to go in terms of the hit to the earnings outlook. So that would be quite bad to these companies because advertising, I think is very cyplical. They probably the first to be cut. If a company wants to reduce the spending and if consumer confidence is falling, then consumers are going to tighten the belt and spend less. That that's all going to hit all these companies eventually. But I think, as I said, it's currently still the sentiment that is, you know, playing out. There is not really real hits to the earnings yet. We just have to wait and see.

And what about overseas because some of the woes here in the United States might be a gain for let's say Chinese stocks. It seems like every time a new model comes out of China, it sends US tech stocks really freaking out, especially those with exposure to AI. How are you thinking about positioning outside of the US.

And what about overseas because some of the woes here in the United States might be a gain for let's say Chinese stocks. It seems like every time a new model comes out of China, it sends US tech stocks really freaking out, especially those with exposure to AI. How are you thinking about positioning outside of the US.

Yeah, I think there's certainly more enthusiasm or in Chinese tech stocks. I think mainly it's because sentiment has been way too depressed and basically a lot of obasease investors have written of Chinese tech for a while, and there's suddenly a bunch of good news, including some shift in a tone from the politician, a bit more welcoming tone, a bit more supportive to the private sector, and of course the innovation in AI and bordling out of using AI in various sectors in China. So I would say, in a new trauma, I think is reasonable to feel more optimistic. I think there could still be more influence going into that sector. But I think we have to be a bit more cautious because we understand Chinese stock market is very volatile and you know, a lot of retail participation. I don't think this time would change. I think that's still a lot of volatility and profit takeing activity if the index continues to go on from here. So I think we've got to be a bit more careful here.

Yeah, I think there's certainly more enthusiasm or in Chinese tech stocks. I think mainly it's because sentiment has been way too depressed and basically a lot of obasease investors have written of Chinese tech for a while, and there's suddenly a bunch of good news, including some shift in a tone from the politician, a bit more welcoming tone, a bit more supportive to the private sector, and of course the innovation in AI and bordling out of using AI in various sectors in China. So I would say, in a new trauma, I think is reasonable to feel more optimistic. I think there could still be more influence going into that sector. But I think we have to be a bit more cautious because we understand Chinese stock market is very volatile and you know, a lot of retail participation. I don't think this time would change. I think that's still a lot of volatility and profit takeing activity if the index continues to go on from here. So I think we've got to be a bit more careful here.

Seems like forever ago that the market was freaking out about deep seek and all of a sudden with some earnings that have come out, CAB backs has been reaffirmed. Investors seem assured that maybe we're a little bit past this. Do you still see the deep seek fear showing up anywhere, if that's something that's going to drive the market going forward.

Seems like forever ago that the market was freaking out about deep seek and all of a sudden with some earnings that have come out, CAB backs has been reaffirmed. Investors seem assured that maybe we're a little bit past this. Do you still see the deep seek fear showing up anywhere, if that's something that's going to drive the market going forward.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The thing is that I think fundamentally we are of the view that deep six appearance. It shows that these models can be run in a more efficient way and thereby lowing the cost of running it and training, and thereby eventually it would e stimulate the demand if the cost goes down, so more people would be using it. So not only that's going to be beneficial for the whole sector, but at the same time, the thing is we don't know yet, and if you look at the latest earnings results from say Nvidia, you won't be able to see that impact yet. Actually it's more more distant in the future whether the hyperscalers are going to reduce their capital spending because of the more efficient models. So there's a lot of questions that are yet to be answered. But I think from our view, if you look back at history of the semiconductors of our cost impact demand, usually when costs are lowered, then eventually demand actually grows exponentially. But of course you have to also consider that the tie is going to be shared by potentially more players, So I think just focusing on say one or two particular leaders is potentially more risky. That's why our strategy is always to get exposure to a whole range of the stocks in the semiconductor ecosal stump, we don't have.

The thing is that I think fundamentally we are of the view that deep six appearance. It shows that these models can be run in a more efficient way and thereby lowing the cost of running it and training, and thereby eventually it would e stimulate the demand if the cost goes down, so more people would be using it. So not only that's going to be beneficial for the whole sector, but at the same time, the thing is we don't know yet, and if you look at the latest earnings results from say Nvidia, you won't be able to see that impact yet. Actually it's more more distant in the future whether the hyperscalers are going to reduce their capital spending because of the more efficient models. So there's a lot of questions that are yet to be answered. But I think from our view, if you look back at history of the semiconductors of our cost impact demand, usually when costs are lowered, then eventually demand actually grows exponentially. But of course you have to also consider that the tie is going to be shared by potentially more players, So I think just focusing on say one or two particular leaders is potentially more risky. That's why our strategy is always to get exposure to a whole range of the stocks in the semiconductor ecosal stump, we don't have.

A crystal Baldoy Janet Janet Mooly from RBC brewin Dolphin, thank you so much for joining us.

A crystal Baldoy Janet Janet Mooly from RBC brewin Dolphin, thank you so much for joining us.

More coming up next. This is Bloomberg time now for talking tech.

More coming up next. This is Bloomberg time now for talking tech.

First up, SpaceX is the layed its mission to bring back two struck stock or astronauts from the International Space Station due to an issue with ground equipment, and the mission would have launched a new crew to the ISS brought back those two astronauts the maroon since last year. Now the launch has been rescheduled to place no earlier than tomorrow evening. Plus, Ali Baba has launched a new version of its quad AI agent incorporating chat what deep Thinking and tasket secution features in one app. Now What utilizes Ali Baba's own reasoning models and is the latest attempt by the company to keep pace with China riveals and shares a Delivero. They're falling today as much as ten percent in London trading. That says most since all the way back in twenty twenty two. The food delivery company gave an earnings forecast that disappointed investors and comes just days after I announced it would exit the Hong Kong market.

First up, SpaceX is the layed its mission to bring back two struck stock or astronauts from the International Space Station due to an issue with ground equipment, and the mission would have launched a new crew to the ISS brought back those two astronauts the maroon since last year. Now the launch has been rescheduled to place no earlier than tomorrow evening. Plus, Ali Baba has launched a new version of its quad AI agent incorporating chat what deep Thinking and tasket secution features in one app. Now What utilizes Ali Baba's own reasoning models and is the latest attempt by the company to keep pace with China riveals and shares a Delivero. They're falling today as much as ten percent in London trading. That says most since all the way back in twenty twenty two. The food delivery company gave an earnings forecast that disappointed investors and comes just days after I announced it would exit the Hong Kong market.

Jackie, the head of Ali Baba Group's original core business, says the use of various AI applications are having a profound impact on the company. Earlier this week, Alibaba dot COM's president Quo Jong told Bloomberg exclusively its vendors are having an easier time finding.

Jackie, the head of Ali Baba Group's original core business, says the use of various AI applications are having a profound impact on the company. Earlier this week, Alibaba dot COM's president Quo Jong told Bloomberg exclusively its vendors are having an easier time finding.

New markets for their goods.

New markets for their goods.

Take a listen, take the buyer as example. So if we think about the search volume for the information or for a product, as in the search volume for the information parts.

Take a listen, take the buyer as example. So if we think about the search volume for the information or for a product, as in the search volume for the information parts.

Ten times than the products park. So think about it.

Ten times than the products park. So think about it.

If you want to start a business, you will not specifically go to a products or go to a kind of suppliers. You will come up on this idea like it was trending and with a specific kind of textile you're going to use in your product, and then it's kind of the big business plend Then it's come to the products. So now using AI have this kind of multi round the dialogue kind of search a lot of people. Now it's more easy to do business online. And for the sellers we see current our kind of for agent these tools, it's already better than sixty or seventy percent of the seller if they are new on olib dot com in terms of the conversion rate for the customer engagement and for the product management.

If you want to start a business, you will not specifically go to a products or go to a kind of suppliers. You will come up on this idea like it was trending and with a specific kind of textile you're going to use in your product, and then it's kind of the big business plend Then it's come to the products. So now using AI have this kind of multi round the dialogue kind of search a lot of people. Now it's more easy to do business online. And for the sellers we see current our kind of for agent these tools, it's already better than sixty or seventy percent of the seller if they are new on olib dot com in terms of the conversion rate for the customer engagement and for the product management.

But how many businesses I think there's around two hundred thousand smsider on the platform. How many businesses are actually using AI today?

But how many businesses I think there's around two hundred thousand smsider on the platform. How many businesses are actually using AI today?

So currently the weekly active sellers are more than one hundred percent, so it's more than half of the sellers is already equipped by this agent based tools. And for the buyer side, actually we want the AX. From last November until now, there are accumulately more than one million users.

So currently the weekly active sellers are more than one hundred percent, so it's more than half of the sellers is already equipped by this agent based tools. And for the buyer side, actually we want the AX. From last November until now, there are accumulately more than one million users.

Is using using this AI based power search.

Is using using this AI based power search.

How much do you feel the competitive pressure on AI given the amount of innovation that's.

How much do you feel the competitive pressure on AI given the amount of innovation that's.

Coming from China.

Coming from China.

Okay, so first of all, we think there's a lot we can do so far. For example, we talk about the reasoning models, but based on language there's a lot on the modimodel multimodel stuff that we can do and later on, like you can based on anything.

Okay, so first of all, we think there's a lot we can do so far. For example, we talk about the reasoning models, but based on language there's a lot on the modimodel multimodel stuff that we can do and later on, like you can based on anything.

An image, a video or a.

An image, a video or a.

File that you uploaded the fail that the reasoning model can help you to interpret and to a upon. So all those kinds of sill we still believe there's a huge space to grow and we can leverish the most. I mean the models from matter, from deepsy, from art cloud to Chailman.

File that you uploaded the fail that the reasoning model can help you to interpret and to a upon. So all those kinds of sill we still believe there's a huge space to grow and we can leverish the most. I mean the models from matter, from deepsy, from art cloud to Chailman.

So all these models actually.

So all these models actually.

Can help us to boost the capability of the applications that we believe. Application actually is the key here and why we think we can do it here we can do better than others. Is not going to be a few tools that play for the people answer the easy questions. You need to be highly integrated into the big scenarios like global trade is a thirty treating US dollar business. I don't think any other business is larger than this. So if we can apply AI in this business and helping a lot of SMBs, so who cannot participate in the global trade and now they can, so as think this is a big success for us.

Can help us to boost the capability of the applications that we believe. Application actually is the key here and why we think we can do it here we can do better than others. Is not going to be a few tools that play for the people answer the easy questions. You need to be highly integrated into the big scenarios like global trade is a thirty treating US dollar business. I don't think any other business is larger than this. So if we can apply AI in this business and helping a lot of SMBs, so who cannot participate in the global trade and now they can, so as think this is a big success for us.

A lot of people are expecting industry consolidation or AI consolidation in China this coming year. How many winners do you see in the AI space in China?

A lot of people are expecting industry consolidation or AI consolidation in China this coming year. How many winners do you see in the AI space in China?

So actually, for that part, I can only speak of my opinion. So if you ask this question in January plenty twenty five, as seeing that nobody can anticipate it, there's a company called Diepsick.

So actually, for that part, I can only speak of my opinion. So if you ask this question in January plenty twenty five, as seeing that nobody can anticipate it, there's a company called Diepsick.

I think you ask this question in March.

I think you ask this question in March.

I don't think that anybody can antipates to what's going to happen in April as well. This industry is moving so fast and a lot of people doing a lot of innovations. We just need to focus on what are the right problems we need to tackle as people in this technology domain. I don't think anybody can anticipate what's going on for this year.

I don't think that anybody can antipates to what's going to happen in April as well. This industry is moving so fast and a lot of people doing a lot of innovations. We just need to focus on what are the right problems we need to tackle as people in this technology domain. I don't think anybody can anticipate what's going on for this year.

Alibaba dot Com president Quosine speaking exclusively with Bluemeg's Annabelt Drowners. Let's just take a quick check on Apple shares year today. Their erosion in market capitalization is to the tune of about half a trillion dollars a fifteen percent wipeout is actually far worse. And then as that one hundred which is off about eight percent, why is it underperforming? There is a myriad of risks which round Rosseella really writes about to our audience today, talking about the wives of tariffs, about the uncertainty in China, about the AI offerings really fizzling of course of late, the SERI concerns, and then there's that lucrative partnership with Google parent Alphabet and whether or not those payments will still come for exclusive access to Google Search within the iPhone. Well, let's talk all about Apple and maybe the way in which is trying to offset some of these headwinds, the affordable iPhone sixteen and e howforfordable actually is it? Mark German is beginning his hands on some of the products, and Bloomberg writes about how it's kind of a tough sell at this price point.