From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Emily Jay. I'm Emily Jack in San Francisco, and this is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. A David versus Goliath struggle continues between Amazon and its workers. The retail giant just defeated a push to unionize a second New York warehouse, just weeks after the union one at another warehouse across the street. We will have all the details, Plus Warren Buffett discloses a massive sake in act Division in a merger arbitrage play. Does the deal with Microsoft go through? We'll have a wide ranging conversation with former Nintendo CEO Reggie m about the rapidly evolving gaming landscape and media stocks Light, Netflix, Spotify and met It all down more than fift so far this year. What's a good business and media right now? We'll ast Light, Sheds, Rich Greenfield, all of that in a moment before let's turned out to another part of the Amazon narrative, with workers at a facility in New York having voted not to join an upstart union. This just weeks after the group one a historic victory at a warehouse right across the street. Bloomberg Spencer Soper, who covers Amazon Forest joins us now Spencer, given that the union just one across the street, what happened here? Yeah, that's a great question, And you know, it's tough to really make big sweeping conclusions out of this. You know, the question was is the is the union going to build on the momentum from the last vote or or supper setback? And we just see that they suffered a setback. Precisely what that means for their overall drive and overall momentum, we we just we just don't know. And um, these things take months to finally unraveled because they're generally contested, uh and the n l RB process is extremely slow. So we've still got a union vote that was denied twice in Bessemer that's still being litigated. And then we've got the union vote that was approved at this other facility recently that that Amazon is contesting. So we're just gonna have a lot of I think a lot more of these as as we look forward, And truly, not every warehouse is the same. Could it be that conditions are simply different in different warehouses. UM, it could be this was uh, I think more of a sort center, whereas the initial one was one of these bigger fulfillment centers. And also, let's just I think that maybe people have this false notion that UM, it's big community of people. You know, people go to these facilities are specific places they work, they clock in, they clock out, they go home. There's not necessarily some big community that that congregates UM. And that's that's really up for the union now to to uh, to make that happen, to to increase that kind of solidarity among among the workers and the and the big thing against them is UM, a lot of people just don't can be fairly apathetic, you know, maybe they don't want to have this job for very long and don't see them see it being worth um trying to to unionize, and then they just question if they gotta pay dues, what are they getting? What are they getting in exchange for paying dudes? Well, one person who's not ampathetic is Chris Smalls, who was really critical in that initial union victory at the warehouse across the street. Amazon is trying to overturn that one. Right now, what is the status of that. Yeah, so there's going to be hearing later in the month. Amazon lobbed concerns that, um, you know, people were allowed to get too close to the voting when it when it occurred, and even the media was allowed to get too close to the voting when it occurred. Um, there's all these various things. Is supposed to be a pristine process where the workers are allowed to voice their thoughts without any fear of reprisal or intimidation, that kind of thing. And so so Amazon is trying to throw some allegations that that this was not a pristine process. So we'll see where that. We'll see where that goes. All right, you will keep us updated. Spencer Soaper, thank you so much. Chairs of Activision. Blizzard jumped in US trading after warm Buffetts, Berkshire Hathaway raised its steake in the video GameMaker. Berkshire now once about nine and a half percent of Activision stock. That is up considerably from the less than two percent steak the company held at the end of last year. Buffett betting on the merger between Activision and Microsoft, that still has plenty of hurdles to clear. And my next guest knows a sing or two about the world of gaming. I'm joined now by Reggie vs M, a former president and CEO of Nintendo, who is also out with a new book, Disrupting the Game From the Bronx to the Top of Nintendo. Reggie, great to have you back here on the show. Um, So, your book chronicles the rise of Nintendo and how you navigated a lot of different disruptive forces. I'm so curious now looking back and it's been almost twenty years since you joined the company. What do you don't know now that could help some of the folks navigating the drama in the gaming industry today. Well, first, Emily, thanks for having me. You know that the gaming industry constantly undergoes so much change. There's always new technology, there's always new forms of gaming. I mean, if you if you think about a game like Fortnite, it didn't exist five years ago. So there's always something new, something coming around the corner. As as I continue to be engaged with the gaming industry, you're constantly thinking about what's next. Where are the new technologies going to take you and how do you continue growing the business moving forward? You know, you talk about the activision Microsoft potential merger. You know, I do believe there's going to continue to be consolidation in the overall gaming industry space. But I also believe it's going to give eies to new smaller studios that are going to be even more aggressive and bringing new types of content out to the marketplace. So the bigger going to continue getting bigger, but they're going to be really innovative smaller players coming into the market as well. So let's talk about Activision for a moment. What do you make of Warren Buffett's stake here, because a number of investors don't seem to think this deal is actually going to happen, do you. I do think the deal is going to happen. When you look at the overall combined entity, it makes the new combined business one of the top three gaming businesses, but not the number one industry that that position is still held I believe by Apple, with Sony not too far behind. So it's not a situation where the merger is going to create the new biggest player on the block. And as I said earlier, I think they're going to be other types of mergers, other entities that are going to continue growing within the overall space. So I do think it passes all of the anti trust hurdles. But as you said, this has a long way to play out. Now, you recently told me that you're a big believer in blockchain technology. You see that as a big opportunity in the gaming world. Can you walk this out a little further? How you see this benefiting players and the developer ecosystem. What I believe blockchain technology can do is that it can create a ed ability for new types of different games to be created, games where you're actually playing to own a piece of content. I also believe that the blockchain will enable developers to potentially create new types of different games. Just as augmented reality gave rise to games like Pokemon Go, I believe this fundamental technology can give rise to new and different types of games. Now what has to happen, though, is that fundamentally the games need to be fun, they need to be worth playing. Technology by itself doesn't necessary create new forms of content, but it enables new and different types of play to come to bear. So that's what I believe is going to happen. When you look at blockchain as a technology and what it could do for game could that, though, eliminate intermediaries one day, like big gaming studios. I don't think it eliminates the big gaming studio, but I do think it changes the payment mechanism, It changes maybe how retailers can participate in this industry. I think that's where there's a bigger risk for great game creators, great development studios. As long as they're developing novel content that speaks to the consumer, I think they're going to be fine. I'd be more concerned if I was a retailer in this space and what that looks like five years, ten years from now now. Nintendo, for example, has traditionally avoided giving players control of game data in game items. Do you see something like that changing? You? Know? So, I would say that Nintendo has evolved to do much more downloadable types of content, much more digital content. There really is no gaming company out there today that truly lets its players own all of the content. Once a game potentially comes off of a developers uh systems, all of the mechanisms where they're updating the games. Once that happens, then the players always at risk for potentially losing their content, losing what they've spent potentially years building which is why I think blockchain can change that dynamic so that when I create something, I truly can own it forever, which I think is very very appealing to it to a gamer today. Speaking of new technology on the horizon, I recently interviewed you at south By Southwest and you had some very controversial remarks about meta and Mark Zuckerberg's vision for the metaverse. I want to replay a portion of what you had to say. Then take a listen. I'm not a buyer of that idea. I don't think that their current definition is going to be successful. Why do I say that. I say that because, first, you know, and I don't know if anyone from Facebook is here, but you you have to admit that Facebook itself is not an innovative company. Facebook is not an innovative company. You can see my face there. Uh in response to um that remark, I'm curious what reaction you've had to that assessment since well, so let me just finish the thought, right, So, what I said was that Facebook has been a fast forward, right. They've typically taken other initiatives and pushed them forward. They've been an acquire You look at some of the things that they're doing. For example, with Instagram, they acquired that business. The only piece of of completely new tech or completely no idea that they did was the very first social network. So that's where I was coming from when I said that today Meta I wouldn't qualify as an innovative company. What I found shocking was the amount of people who agreed with that statement and with the statement overall that the other reasons why I believe their vision of the metaverse, the fact that they don't partner very well, the fact that they don't have a lot of credibility or have suffered credibility issues with the consumer. These all affect the concept of the metaverse, where ideally you have one overall environment, it's digital in nature, there's a common currency. All of these things are fundamental to at least my vision of the metaverse. And this is where I see that Meta as a company has some issues. So I wonder if there are any metaverse companies that you like. You know, it's been interesting some folks are saying, you know, more traditional quote unquote gaming companies like Nintendo. The stock is lagging because investors are focusing on other company these that are promoting their visions of the metaverse, whether it is Roadblocks or in Vidio meta shares. To be fair, I've really suffered. What do you think of that assessment and the pace of innovation at some of these other companies, including Nintendo, which you know isn't trumpeting its vision for the metaverse. Yeah, so I think there's a number of different things. I do think companies like Epic, who are the parent company for Fortnite, are doing some very interesting things with that platform and introducing avatars and having events within its space, which is very meta like. I also believe that Roadblocks has the potential to really push on this area quite aggressively. I think the market is down on Nintendo in part because while the Nintendo Switch continues doing exceptionally well, they've already announced that their software sales are going to be down in the current fiscal. They're hinting that they're going to be some challenges in the next fiscal. I think that's why investors are reacting to that particular stock in terms of where they see it going over the next twelve or eighteen months. In terms of other companies that I think are doing some really interesting things. You know, as I said with you on stage. I think there are a number of smaller companies, privately held companies that are doing very interesting things in this space that will come to light over the lex number of months. Any advice for the Nintendo leadership today? You know, I am still on very good terms with all of my my peers and my friends over at Nintendo. Whatever they call me for advice, which isn't too often. I've been away from that business three years now. I give them lots of my opinion. But look, the Nintendo Switch is on the verge of becoming the best selling Nintendo system of all time, So that speaks a lot to all of the momentum they have today on that business and all of the wonderful content they're created. So last good question, I want to ask you about Netflix, because since we talked, we saw Netflix Blue subscribers for the first time in a decade. A lot of folks concerned about the future of the streaming business. Has streaming hit its peak? I actually don't believe that streaming has hit its peak. I think there's a number of different factors going on. Specifically two uh Netflix, There's a lot of new players in the streaming space. I do think they need to take another look at their overall strategy for how they air their content. I personally believe that binging maybe has become a little passe. You look at what HBO and other players are doing as they come back to having appointment TV and having a piece of content airing on a regular day on a regular schedule. I think those are some of the things that they may need to look at versus a complete overhaul of their programming. Interesting. Reggie Fees may uh interesting advice for the Netflix team. Appreciate you as always taking the time to join us. Author of a new book, Disrupting the Game from the Bronx to the Top of Nintendo available coming up. Could cyber threats be the greatest threat we face? We're gonna have more on what the war in Ukraine is teaching us about cybersecurity next. This is Bloomberg as the War in Ukraine reaches on a recent report from Microsoft says Russia has carried out hundreds of cyber operations, including destructive attacks, against Ukraine throughout its invasion. This an effort to degrade Ukraine's government and military and to undermine the public's trust in those institutions. Want to talk about what it all means for the future of cybersecurity abroad and here at home with Camille Stewart. She is the Global head of Product Security Strategy at Google. Camille, great to have you with us. I'm so curious what Google has seen in in in light of the war in Ukraine. Have you seen a big uptick in cyber attacks? Yes. We are are focused on elevating information to help the folks on the ground in Ukraine understand what threats are headed their way. UM. We have provided a lot of support in Poland as well, and are leveraging Android bones to provide some of those air rapid alerts that folks need to stay safe. So we've seen a lot of activity across a number of different vectors and are providing support in any way that we can. So how specifically have attacks ramped up? So most attacks are locally targeted, and we're seeing UM some activity around UM misinformation and disinformation around UM the the war in the campaign UM, access to information has been limited and those things are causing some churn. We've seen a little bit of activity targeting UM Ukraine infrastructure, but not as much as anyone had predicted before when they started. But we're definitely seeing some activity now. John Cocho from the Department of Homeland Security recently had this to say, And I know you also worked at the Department of Homeland Security under President Obama, So I want you to take a quick listen. You know, five years ago, the biggest threat to our country was isis inspired massive acts of violence here that's no longer the case. The biggest threat to our country I from homeland security standpoint, and really national security of cyber actors attacking us. And at Homeland Security, that's what we're doing seven Representative John Cocho there of New York, would you agree with that assessment. It is definitely one of the greatest. I mean, it has risen in public consciousness because we are seeing attacks like solar winds and on colonial pipeline, and so I think the pervasiveness and the public consciousness is a really helpful thing as we moved forward. But we're definitely seeing um an increased focus on that media love attack. Our business is prepared, they are working on. It depends on the size of the organization, it depends on their investment in security. But there has been a really strong effort through the US government to collaborate with private sector, and that public private cooperation has facilitated a lot of investment and DHS through sis UH, as mentioned by Congressman, UM does a lot of support for organizations throughout the UM the private sector, and there are you know, this number to me is still so striking. Six hundred thousand open cybersecurity jobs. Is that part of the reason we may be seeing an uptick and attacks. I wouldn't say that that is the reason, but we definitely need more people to combat the threat, a lot of smart people with a number of different backgrounds. I'm glad you brought up that statistic because I think people here about cybersecurity jobs and think they need to be an engineer or very technical, but there are a number of jobs that would require folks of a variety of backgrounds, from legal backgrounds to training and marketing. All right, Camille Stewart, Global head of Product Security Strategy at Google. Camille, thanks for giving us your view on the cyber landscape. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I Emily Chang in San Francisco. The Milk and Institute Global conferences underway this week, and bloombergs Eric Schatzker caught up with Citadel CEO Ken Griffin to talk about everything from inflation to the war on Ukraine. Part of that conversation and what he had to say about crypto right now, take a listen. So it's it's pretty simple. All my colleagues who are younger than I am probably think I'm a dinosaur in this issue. They're big believers. They believe that cryptocurrency has an important role in the global economy as a means of facilitating payment in a web three world three world. I have to give that due consideration. These are really sharp people. I have to live with the reality that that an asset's worth of people perceive it to be worth. So I may be skeptical about cryptocurrency. What's the value bitcoin or ethereum? I also collect American abstract art. Why is a painting worth ten million dollars? It's oil on a canvas. So value is in the eyes of the holder. It's nigh's the market. One of the things that we do with Seal securities is we help people create the portfolios that they think create the greatest value for them. And as such, given the institutional increase and interest in cryptocurrency, I think it's reasonable to expect to see us be more involved in the crypto space, providing liquidity institutional and potentially retail investors. How soon is it difficult to build a market making business in crypto from scratch. It's difficult to build to the level of rigor that we would want to build too. Things like ensuring that we're not a party to a transaction with North Korea are really important to us. They might not be to our competitors, but I'm not going to help fund the North Koreans with their various ventures by by mistakenly buying their cryptocurrency. So we're going to run our business too. I believe a very high standard of of k y C and a m L in the interest of making sure that we are in the markets as a constructive participant in this space and really bring the best practices that we see here in North America into the market. Would you describe that business the one you envision as a market making business akin to what you do in equities or more of an exchange I would say it's it's it's probably a combination to choose what will end up in So obviously, we as a market maker commit our capital's principle, and then we believe exchange technology is very important helping to bring buyers and sellers together. Do you feel any sense of regret for not diving in sooner, because, as you well know, there are examples of firms. I'll mention Binance because it's the biggest that have become among among in revenue terms and valuation terms, among the biggest in the world. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna answer this in a way that's very personal to me. Look, I wish I owned a whole lot of Amazon fifteen or twenty years ago, and I wish I owned a whole lot of or Apple twenty years ago and just kept it for like twenty years. I'd say one difference between those investments and having built a cryptocurrency firm over that period of time is I'd actually feel really proud of what Amazon has done for the US consumer. I feel really proud of what Apple has done for the U S consumer. You know, we both walked in here. I was checking my iPhone. It's just completely changed our lives. Amazon has completely changed the ability for somebody to purchase goods, for small retailer to offer their products on a giant, vast virtual marketplace. These are businesses that have really clearly changed the world for the better. I'm still looking for that story as to how crypto has made the world so much better. I give you the story as to how bitcoin consumes as much power as a small country. You know, a world that's fixated on carbon footprints. It's remarkable to me that we applaud the emergence of a cryptocurrency which has a CEO two footprint of like a significant smaller, small, mid sized country. A couple of quick questions for you on politics before we finish, Um, you are among the most significant UH funders of political campaigns in this election cycle. Um. One important thing has just changed or is about to change. Elon is going to own Twitter. How is that going to change this election cycle and those that follow? I think the most important part of Elon Musk owning Twitter is about free speech, hands down the most important part. The social media networks are so focused on curating what all of us see and read every day, they've really eroded free speech. As you and I knew growing up, and I know Ellen is just deeply committed to the idea of freedom of expression. Now, free speech doesn't necessarily mean good ideas, to be clear, but to have a robust debate around ideas is how we actually come to reason conclusions and showing both sides of a story is important. You know, the Hunter Biden laptop just disappearing in the abyss of the cover up of large social media companies and many of the news franchises is a really terrifying story. Would have changed the election? Probably not, but your American voter has been entitled to know about this information. Absolutely, Like, if we want our democracy to work, we need people who have the time and the ability to access the relevant information on candidates. It made a change our view on a candidate, but we should have the ability to make an informed, in reason decision. Citadel CEO Ken Griffin there at the Milk and Institute Bloomber will we bring you more coverage from the global conference throughout this week's Stay tuned to Bloomberg Television right here. And speaking of media companies, they are now struggling as concerns over what role online media will play in the future. Tech companies lost nearly two trillion dollars in market value during the month of April alone. Why now and how long will it last. I'm joined now by lfshead Partners Rich Greenfield to get his perspective. So, when you look at media companies in particular Netflix, Spotify, Meta, Rich all down more so far this year? How long does this keep up? Look? This is pretty ugly, and I think part of the challenges we're in sort of unchartered territory Emily, Like, we don't short, we know what a recession looks like. We know what global or geopolitical unrest looks like over in Eastern Europe and Russia, et cetera. What we don't know is sort of the the unlock effect of the pandemic. And what I mean by that is, you know, has consumer behavior really fundamentally changed? You know, you're looking at sort of a surgeon vacation travel, right People want to be out of their houses. You know, Look, try to book a trip to Disney World right now. It is complete and utter insanity trying to get into Disney World, even without European travel. So what's really happened to streaming? Has there been a fundamental change in sort of the future of streaming television or the shift from linear television to streaming television, or do we just shoot two years too far up the curve too fast, and it's gonna take time for consumers to actually catch up now and for it's just the business and evaluations to sort of catch up. And that's what we're struggling with, what everyone investor wise is struggling with. Like we used to talk about there being seven hundred, eight hundred, maybe even a billion of homes that would do streaming television, whether you're talking about Netflix or Disney, like, that was the total addressable market we call TAM that everyone was excited about. Has it changed? Like is it much lower now? Is the time to get there longer? Or pricing gonna have to be you know lower to get there. Those are the things everyone is grappling with. Like, I don't think we've fundamentally changed, but I do think the combination of pandemic unlock, geopolitical inflation, maybe a recession in Europe, maybe fears of recession in the US, like all of that is you know, look at the price of eggs, like right, like, there are a lot of things going on right now, and nobody right like, there is nobody right now that understands what the other side of a pan two year pandemic looks like because we've never lived through this in the markets we have today with that effect, and so this is just new and virgin territory from an analytical standpoint, and it's making it very hard not just for us. These companies can't predict their business. So you recently said advertising is falling apart, the cable bundle is falling apart, streaming has slowed. Is there a good media business to be in right now? It is, well, the obvious one, right I mean, there's two businesses that are obviously big beneficiaries right now. One is, you know, my partner Brandon Ross covers the entire live entertainment space. I mean Live Nation is on fire. They're like, it is just an insane how good that businesses? Tickets go on sale and they're sold out two seconds later. So live entertainment is clearly a benefit a sary right now. You see it across that category. The other one, you know, and you're you're showing Netflix on the screen in terms of sort of what content is available. The business that's also benefiting from this explosion of streaming services is content creation. And if you're in the business of making content, that business has gotten far, far better because there's incredible demand from all of these services. So production studios have been big beneficiaries. The problem is there's not a lot of pure play production studios to actually invest in. Like Sony is not a streamer, right, Sony doesn't have a streamer. They have a lot of other businesses. But Sony's production business has been incredible in terms of what they've created over the course of the past year. The problem is there's just not a lot of ways to play that. Obviously, in live entertainment, you can own Live Nation. That's been a great stop. What are you expecting to see when we see Disney's results? I mean you mentioned that theme parks are booming, and so if you're a business like Disney and you have a streaming arm but also a theme park arm, are you well insulated or not? You would have thought they'd be well insulated. The stock obviously, I mean the stock peaked what a hundred and ninety and is sitting at a hundred and twelve ish. I don't know where it closed today, but like it has been beat up. I mean, Disney has been trading down every single day, and I think part of it it's really twofold one. I think global economic fear, right, so fear of not so much. How good the theme parks are right now, But what happens if we go into more of a global recession is certainly of fear. And then the other piece of it, right is you know, the hope or the reason to own Disney. For for multiple years, the reason to own did Disney was, hey, this is a company with a Netflix inside, right, Like they're the only company coming out of the Fox acquisition. This is the only company that can really rival Netflix and create a Netflix. Well, the problem is, as you just showed on the screen, Netflix is valuation has been eviscerated with it. So what is the implied value of this Netflix inside of Disney? It's obviously far less and and look emily the other piece of this is both Netflix and Disney in the past three months sort of out of nowhere, have come out and told you, in order to grow our businesses, we now think we have to incorporate advertising. That was something I mean, Disney was on record saying just a year ago, we don't want to put advertising in Disney. Plus now they're gonna start doing it later this year. Netflix had been pretty much religion was never going to do advertising, and now all of a sudden, Retastings is talking about how in the next couple of years they're open to incorporating advertising and think it could be additive. And so, you know, do you believe that advertising in this content is helpful? It's it's sort of a red flag for investors of why are these companies all of a sudden who didn't feel like they needed advertising, whose prices are so much cheaper than the cable bundle, while all of a sudden are they're resorting to advertising. You know, I don't think I don't hear a whole lot of consumers go, I know every consumer wants lower prices. I don't hear a whole lot of consumers saying, God, I really would like advertising inside of my media content. Well, here's something that consumers most of them do want, and that is sports. Do you think I mean in Disney of course has ESPN, but could sports? We're seeing Apple and Amazon betting on sports. Could sports be the answer? Quickly, I've only got about thirty seconds left. I think sports can be an answer as a as an add on sports, as a dedicated streaming service. It's very hard to make the math work. I mean, Amazon's made the most robust move with Thursday night Football. Let's see I think that we're gonna basically, I'm gonna say stay tuned. Amazon needs to show that they can generate a massive audience for Thursday night Football, where the billion dollars they spend is going to look like a very bad investment for streaming. This is the biggest investment ever made in streaming sports. Let's revisit this when we see what the numbers look like in terms of viewership. Come the fall, Rich Greenfield Chud Partners. Always good to have you, Rich, Thanks for making chat for Rest today. Coming up, he says he's stepping down as interim CEO of Twitter. That's a joke, of course, but Twitter didn't find it too funny. We'll have more on that next. This is Bloomberg time for our Crypto report. Now we want to take another look at Twitter, this time from a slightly different angle. Last week, crypto executive Stanni Kolichov tweeted to the masses that he had been named Twitter's interim CEO. That was a false claim, of course, or maybe just a joke. Shortly after his account was suspended by the social media giant. In less than twenty four hours later, Twitter reversed that suspension. Well, he's back now talking more about his faux appointment and more. Stanni Kolichov, founder and CEO of the Open Source Market Protocol. They with me, Now, okay, so Stannie, what exactly happened there? UM, you tweet that you're the interim CEO, you're quickly banned then reinstated twenty four hours later. Yeah, I mean it was definitely everything happened but quickly. So essentially I made a kind of like a tweet that's supposed to be a joke about essentially becoming a interim CEO of Twitter, UM, followed by the lot of kind of news about the Elon Musk acquiring UM Twitter and making it private, and I'm known in the vectory space for for BA, ticket building a piece and flights social media, the Lens protocol, and essentially UM. I continued the joke with actually laying down a road map for Twitter for ninety days, essentially shipping the edit button that Twitter has been working for for quite a while, and and also making Twitter more open, opening up the algorithms and making them open source. And and even creating kind of like a more decentil Twitter as well. And then what happened is that UM I got suspended UM and at some point UM there was this kind of like a hashtag free stunic movement then started to pick up UM in the vectory community and I was able to get back in, but for a period of time I I lost my followers in and also the nexus my BM So that was an interesting experience. So Twitter hasn't responded to this situation directly, but it certainly seems like they took your tweet seriously and then decided maybe they shouldn't have taken it so seriously. But it does raise a debate about what's real and fake UH and free uh in the in the world of speech. What do you think the learning is here? Yeah, definitely the timing is quite interesting, the regarding uh the freedom of speech, especially because Twitter itself and many of this bigger social media platforms day they kind of artists, uh the digital phone halls where where everyone can comment and talk about and and you have your audiences and essentially UM in my case, for example, when I got the band UM that Twitter was my only public facing platform, So where I have my followers and my audience and and my communication channel with with my audience. And I think the challenging part here is that when you have a platform and the motivation that isn't open, uh, it's it's very kind of like a hard to create competition in terms of the algorithm that are used, um, showing the content or motivating the content, or even understanding the reasons behind the different kinds of suspensions and bands. And I think, like from the victory crypto perspective, what's fascinating is that there's a movement about the essentralizing many of imports and parts of the infrastructure, and that might be financial infrastructure that it has been happening with this in choice finance, but now also with the social media, because social media as an infrastructure is very valuable and maybe there's kind of like a thinking behind of it that it's so valuable that it shouldn't be completely owned by the few or or let's say, uh even like private heights, but actually everything should be open and anyone can and customize and build algorithms and let the users choose which of these algorithms are most vorable and and affair to them but you know, one of our Bloomberg opinion column this makes this point today that open sourcing the algorithm would open up average users to a lot more unwanted content. I mean, is open sourcing the algorithm as Elon Musk seems to want to do, really the right move. I think it's all about giving choices to the user. So for example, what we're doing at lants protocol, we're simply create blockchain these social graph where you can create a profile and and then you have your follower relationships on chain. So for example, if something like this happens where you get banned in the one application, you can go to another application and log in with your accounts and you have your followings for example. Recently, actually Bloomberg reported that Facebook discontinued the podcasting services in their platform, meaning that all of this uh podcaster that has been building their audience on Facebook, they pretty much lost the audience and the hard work what what what was putting into that relationships. So essentially, by opening up the social graph, any application developer new entrepreneur who figures out interacting new way with the content can create a new application. Since the barriers slow and and basically creates more usability that way, and the users can then choose what they want to use. Quick pick pitch Stanni of thirty seconds. What do you think the is better about the lens protocol and this Web three alternative than Twitter today? I think essentially less protocol is about giving opportunities for anyone to build new ways to interact with the content, but also for the users to simply create the profile. Ones have their following relationships on the box chain and essentially no any single platform can take that away from you. So what it means that first time ever all the platforms like Twitter, Facebook, they actually need to compete on the algorithms they are providing you and you as a user, you're not locked into the platform itself. And this is definitely like a new dynamic al right, Stanni Kolschov of a founder and CEO, not the interim CEO of Twitter. To be clear, that was a joke, Stanni, thank you for joining us. The European Union has hit Apple with a formal antitrust suit over iPhone payments. The complaint alleges that Apple abuses its dominance over mobile wallets on its devices via its Apple Pay service. The company could face hefty fines. Apple says it's contactless pay system helps consumers. A story will continue to follow, and that does it for the sedition of Bloomberg Technology. We are back Tuesday with more earnings including air b D and Lift. Don't forget to check out our new podcast, find it wherever you get your podcast. I'm Emily Changing in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg

From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Emily Jay. I'm Emily Jack in San Francisco, and this is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. A David versus Goliath struggle continues between Amazon and its workers. The retail giant just defeated a push to unionize a second New York warehouse, just weeks after the union one at another warehouse across the street. We will have all the details, Plus Warren Buffett discloses a massive sake in act Division in a merger arbitrage play. Does the deal with Microsoft go through? We'll have a wide ranging conversation with former Nintendo CEO Reggie m about the rapidly evolving gaming landscape and media stocks Light, Netflix, Spotify and met It all down more than fift so far this year. What's a good business and media right now? We'll ast Light, Sheds, Rich Greenfield, all of that in a moment before let's turned out to another part of the Amazon narrative, with workers at a facility in New York having voted not to join an upstart union. This just weeks after the group one a historic victory at a warehouse right across the street. Bloomberg Spencer Soper, who covers Amazon Forest joins us now Spencer, given that the union just one across the street, what happened here? Yeah, that's a great question, And you know, it's tough to really make big sweeping conclusions out of this. You know, the question was is the is the union going to build on the momentum from the last vote or or supper setback? And we just see that they suffered a setback. Precisely what that means for their overall drive and overall momentum, we we just we just don't know. And um, these things take months to finally unraveled because they're generally contested, uh and the n l RB process is extremely slow. So we've still got a union vote that was denied twice in Bessemer that's still being litigated. And then we've got the union vote that was approved at this other facility recently that that Amazon is contesting. So we're just gonna have a lot of I think a lot more of these as as we look forward, And truly, not every warehouse is the same. Could it be that conditions are simply different in different warehouses. UM, it could be this was uh, I think more of a sort center, whereas the initial one was one of these bigger fulfillment centers. And also, let's just I think that maybe people have this false notion that UM, it's big community of people. You know, people go to these facilities are specific places they work, they clock in, they clock out, they go home. There's not necessarily some big community that that congregates UM. And that's that's really up for the union now to to uh, to make that happen, to to increase that kind of solidarity among among the workers and the and the big thing against them is UM, a lot of people just don't can be fairly apathetic, you know, maybe they don't want to have this job for very long and don't see them see it being worth um trying to to unionize, and then they just question if they gotta pay dues, what are they getting? What are they getting in exchange for paying dudes? Well, one person who's not ampathetic is Chris Smalls, who was really critical in that initial union victory at the warehouse across the street. Amazon is trying to overturn that one. Right now, what is the status of that. Yeah, so there's going to be hearing later in the month. Amazon lobbed concerns that, um, you know, people were allowed to get too close to the voting when it when it occurred, and even the media was allowed to get too close to the voting when it occurred. Um, there's all these various things. Is supposed to be a pristine process where the workers are allowed to voice their thoughts without any fear of reprisal or intimidation, that kind of thing. And so so Amazon is trying to throw some allegations that that this was not a pristine process. So we'll see where that. We'll see where that goes. All right, you will keep us updated. Spencer Soaper, thank you so much. Chairs of Activision. Blizzard jumped in US trading after warm Buffetts, Berkshire Hathaway raised its steake in the video GameMaker. Berkshire now once about nine and a half percent of Activision stock. That is up considerably from the less than two percent steak the company held at the end of last year. Buffett betting on the merger between Activision and Microsoft, that still has plenty of hurdles to clear. And my next guest knows a sing or two about the world of gaming. I'm joined now by Reggie vs M, a former president and CEO of Nintendo, who is also out with a new book, Disrupting the Game From the Bronx to the Top of Nintendo. Reggie, great to have you back here on the show. Um, So, your book chronicles the rise of Nintendo and how you navigated a lot of different disruptive forces. I'm so curious now looking back and it's been almost twenty years since you joined the company. What do you don't know now that could help some of the folks navigating the drama in the gaming industry today. Well, first, Emily, thanks for having me. You know that the gaming industry constantly undergoes so much change. There's always new technology, there's always new forms of gaming. I mean, if you if you think about a game like Fortnite, it didn't exist five years ago. So there's always something new, something coming around the corner. As as I continue to be engaged with the gaming industry, you're constantly thinking about what's next. Where are the new technologies going to take you and how do you continue growing the business moving forward? You know, you talk about the activision Microsoft potential merger. You know, I do believe there's going to continue to be consolidation in the overall gaming industry space. But I also believe it's going to give eies to new smaller studios that are going to be even more aggressive and bringing new types of content out to the marketplace. So the bigger going to continue getting bigger, but they're going to be really innovative smaller players coming into the market as well. So let's talk about Activision for a moment. What do you make of Warren Buffett's stake here, because a number of investors don't seem to think this deal is actually going to happen, do you. I do think the deal is going to happen. When you look at the overall combined entity, it makes the new combined business one of the top three gaming businesses, but not the number one industry that that position is still held I believe by Apple, with Sony not too far behind. So it's not a situation where the merger is going to create the new biggest player on the block. And as I said earlier, I think they're going to be other types of mergers, other entities that are going to continue growing within the overall space. So I do think it passes all of the anti trust hurdles. But as you said, this has a long way to play out. Now, you recently told me that you're a big believer in blockchain technology. You see that as a big opportunity in the gaming world. Can you walk this out a little further? How you see this benefiting players and the developer ecosystem. What I believe blockchain technology can do is that it can create a ed ability for new types of different games to be created, games where you're actually playing to own a piece of content. I also believe that the blockchain will enable developers to potentially create new types of different games. Just as augmented reality gave rise to games like Pokemon Go, I believe this fundamental technology can give rise to new and different types of games. Now what has to happen, though, is that fundamentally the games need to be fun, they need to be worth playing. Technology by itself doesn't necessary create new forms of content, but it enables new and different types of play to come to bear. So that's what I believe is going to happen. When you look at blockchain as a technology and what it could do for game could that, though, eliminate intermediaries one day, like big gaming studios. I don't think it eliminates the big gaming studio, but I do think it changes the payment mechanism, It changes maybe how retailers can participate in this industry. I think that's where there's a bigger risk for great game creators, great development studios. As long as they're developing novel content that speaks to the consumer, I think they're going to be fine. I'd be more concerned if I was a retailer in this space and what that looks like five years, ten years from now now. Nintendo, for example, has traditionally avoided giving players control of game data in game items. Do you see something like that changing? You? Know? So, I would say that Nintendo has evolved to do much more downloadable types of content, much more digital content. There really is no gaming company out there today that truly lets its players own all of the content. Once a game potentially comes off of a developers uh systems, all of the mechanisms where they're updating the games. Once that happens, then the players always at risk for potentially losing their content, losing what they've spent potentially years building which is why I think blockchain can change that dynamic so that when I create something, I truly can own it forever, which I think is very very appealing to it to a gamer today. Speaking of new technology on the horizon, I recently interviewed you at south By Southwest and you had some very controversial remarks about meta and Mark Zuckerberg's vision for the metaverse. I want to replay a portion of what you had to say. Then take a listen. I'm not a buyer of that idea. I don't think that their current definition is going to be successful. Why do I say that. I say that because, first, you know, and I don't know if anyone from Facebook is here, but you you have to admit that Facebook itself is not an innovative company. Facebook is not an innovative company. You can see my face there. Uh in response to um that remark, I'm curious what reaction you've had to that assessment since well, so let me just finish the thought, right, So, what I said was that Facebook has been a fast forward, right. They've typically taken other initiatives and pushed them forward. They've been an acquire You look at some of the things that they're doing. For example, with Instagram, they acquired that business. The only piece of of completely new tech or completely no idea that they did was the very first social network. So that's where I was coming from when I said that today Meta I wouldn't qualify as an innovative company. What I found shocking was the amount of people who agreed with that statement and with the statement overall that the other reasons why I believe their vision of the metaverse, the fact that they don't partner very well, the fact that they don't have a lot of credibility or have suffered credibility issues with the consumer. These all affect the concept of the metaverse, where ideally you have one overall environment, it's digital in nature, there's a common currency. All of these things are fundamental to at least my vision of the metaverse. And this is where I see that Meta as a company has some issues. So I wonder if there are any metaverse companies that you like. You know, it's been interesting some folks are saying, you know, more traditional quote unquote gaming companies like Nintendo. The stock is lagging because investors are focusing on other company these that are promoting their visions of the metaverse, whether it is Roadblocks or in Vidio meta shares. To be fair, I've really suffered. What do you think of that assessment and the pace of innovation at some of these other companies, including Nintendo, which you know isn't trumpeting its vision for the metaverse. Yeah, so I think there's a number of different things. I do think companies like Epic, who are the parent company for Fortnite, are doing some very interesting things with that platform and introducing avatars and having events within its space, which is very meta like. I also believe that Roadblocks has the potential to really push on this area quite aggressively. I think the market is down on Nintendo in part because while the Nintendo Switch continues doing exceptionally well, they've already announced that their software sales are going to be down in the current fiscal. They're hinting that they're going to be some challenges in the next fiscal. I think that's why investors are reacting to that particular stock in terms of where they see it going over the next twelve or eighteen months. In terms of other companies that I think are doing some really interesting things. You know, as I said with you on stage. I think there are a number of smaller companies, privately held companies that are doing very interesting things in this space that will come to light over the lex number of months. Any advice for the Nintendo leadership today? You know, I am still on very good terms with all of my my peers and my friends over at Nintendo. Whatever they call me for advice, which isn't too often. I've been away from that business three years now. I give them lots of my opinion. But look, the Nintendo Switch is on the verge of becoming the best selling Nintendo system of all time, So that speaks a lot to all of the momentum they have today on that business and all of the wonderful content they're created. So last good question, I want to ask you about Netflix, because since we talked, we saw Netflix Blue subscribers for the first time in a decade. A lot of folks concerned about the future of the streaming business. Has streaming hit its peak? I actually don't believe that streaming has hit its peak. I think there's a number of different factors going on. Specifically two uh Netflix, There's a lot of new players in the streaming space. I do think they need to take another look at their overall strategy for how they air their content. I personally believe that binging maybe has become a little passe. You look at what HBO and other players are doing as they come back to having appointment TV and having a piece of content airing on a regular day on a regular schedule. I think those are some of the things that they may need to look at versus a complete overhaul of their programming. Interesting. Reggie Fees may uh interesting advice for the Netflix team. Appreciate you as always taking the time to join us. Author of a new book, Disrupting the Game from the Bronx to the Top of Nintendo available coming up. Could cyber threats be the greatest threat we face? We're gonna have more on what the war in Ukraine is teaching us about cybersecurity next. This is Bloomberg as the War in Ukraine reaches on a recent report from Microsoft says Russia has carried out hundreds of cyber operations, including destructive attacks, against Ukraine throughout its invasion. This an effort to degrade Ukraine's government and military and to undermine the public's trust in those institutions. Want to talk about what it all means for the future of cybersecurity abroad and here at home with Camille Stewart. She is the Global head of Product Security Strategy at Google. Camille, great to have you with us. I'm so curious what Google has seen in in in light of the war in Ukraine. Have you seen a big uptick in cyber attacks? Yes. We are are focused on elevating information to help the folks on the ground in Ukraine understand what threats are headed their way. UM. We have provided a lot of support in Poland as well, and are leveraging Android bones to provide some of those air rapid alerts that folks need to stay safe. So we've seen a lot of activity across a number of different vectors and are providing support in any way that we can. So how specifically have attacks ramped up? So most attacks are locally targeted, and we're seeing UM some activity around UM misinformation and disinformation around UM the the war in the campaign UM, access to information has been limited and those things are causing some churn. We've seen a little bit of activity targeting UM Ukraine infrastructure, but not as much as anyone had predicted before when they started. But we're definitely seeing some activity now. John Cocho from the Department of Homeland Security recently had this to say, And I know you also worked at the Department of Homeland Security under President Obama, So I want you to take a quick listen. You know, five years ago, the biggest threat to our country was isis inspired massive acts of violence here that's no longer the case. The biggest threat to our country I from homeland security standpoint, and really national security of cyber actors attacking us. And at Homeland Security, that's what we're doing seven Representative John Cocho there of New York, would you agree with that assessment. It is definitely one of the greatest. I mean, it has risen in public consciousness because we are seeing attacks like solar winds and on colonial pipeline, and so I think the pervasiveness and the public consciousness is a really helpful thing as we moved forward. But we're definitely seeing um an increased focus on that media love attack. Our business is prepared, they are working on. It depends on the size of the organization, it depends on their investment in security. But there has been a really strong effort through the US government to collaborate with private sector, and that public private cooperation has facilitated a lot of investment and DHS through sis UH, as mentioned by Congressman, UM does a lot of support for organizations throughout the UM the private sector, and there are you know, this number to me is still so striking. Six hundred thousand open cybersecurity jobs. Is that part of the reason we may be seeing an uptick and attacks. I wouldn't say that that is the reason, but we definitely need more people to combat the threat, a lot of smart people with a number of different backgrounds. I'm glad you brought up that statistic because I think people here about cybersecurity jobs and think they need to be an engineer or very technical, but there are a number of jobs that would require folks of a variety of backgrounds, from legal backgrounds to training and marketing. All right, Camille Stewart, Global head of Product Security Strategy at Google. Camille, thanks for giving us your view on the cyber landscape. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I Emily Chang in San Francisco. The Milk and Institute Global conferences underway this week, and bloombergs Eric Schatzker caught up with Citadel CEO Ken Griffin to talk about everything from inflation to the war on Ukraine. Part of that conversation and what he had to say about crypto right now, take a listen. So it's it's pretty simple. All my colleagues who are younger than I am probably think I'm a dinosaur in this issue. They're big believers. They believe that cryptocurrency has an important role in the global economy as a means of facilitating payment in a web three world three world. I have to give that due consideration. These are really sharp people. I have to live with the reality that that an asset's worth of people perceive it to be worth. So I may be skeptical about cryptocurrency. What's the value bitcoin or ethereum? I also collect American abstract art. Why is a painting worth ten million dollars? It's oil on a canvas. So value is in the eyes of the holder. It's nigh's the market. One of the things that we do with Seal securities is we help people create the portfolios that they think create the greatest value for them. And as such, given the institutional increase and interest in cryptocurrency, I think it's reasonable to expect to see us be more involved in the crypto space, providing liquidity institutional and potentially retail investors. How soon is it difficult to build a market making business in crypto from scratch. It's difficult to build to the level of rigor that we would want to build too. Things like ensuring that we're not a party to a transaction with North Korea are really important to us. They might not be to our competitors, but I'm not going to help fund the North Koreans with their various ventures by by mistakenly buying their cryptocurrency. So we're going to run our business too. I believe a very high standard of of k y C and a m L in the interest of making sure that we are in the markets as a constructive participant in this space and really bring the best practices that we see here in North America into the market. Would you describe that business the one you envision as a market making business akin to what you do in equities or more of an exchange I would say it's it's it's probably a combination to choose what will end up in So obviously, we as a market maker commit our capital's principle, and then we believe exchange technology is very important helping to bring buyers and sellers together. Do you feel any sense of regret for not diving in sooner, because, as you well know, there are examples of firms. I'll mention Binance because it's the biggest that have become among among in revenue terms and valuation terms, among the biggest in the world. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna answer this in a way that's very personal to me. Look, I wish I owned a whole lot of Amazon fifteen or twenty years ago, and I wish I owned a whole lot of or Apple twenty years ago and just kept it for like twenty years. I'd say one difference between those investments and having built a cryptocurrency firm over that period of time is I'd actually feel really proud of what Amazon has done for the US consumer. I feel really proud of what Apple has done for the U S consumer. You know, we both walked in here. I was checking my iPhone. It's just completely changed our lives. Amazon has completely changed the ability for somebody to purchase goods, for small retailer to offer their products on a giant, vast virtual marketplace. These are businesses that have really clearly changed the world for the better. I'm still looking for that story as to how crypto has made the world so much better. I give you the story as to how bitcoin consumes as much power as a small country. You know, a world that's fixated on carbon footprints. It's remarkable to me that we applaud the emergence of a cryptocurrency which has a CEO two footprint of like a significant smaller, small, mid sized country. A couple of quick questions for you on politics before we finish, Um, you are among the most significant UH funders of political campaigns in this election cycle. Um. One important thing has just changed or is about to change. Elon is going to own Twitter. How is that going to change this election cycle and those that follow? I think the most important part of Elon Musk owning Twitter is about free speech, hands down the most important part. The social media networks are so focused on curating what all of us see and read every day, they've really eroded free speech. As you and I knew growing up, and I know Ellen is just deeply committed to the idea of freedom of expression. Now, free speech doesn't necessarily mean good ideas, to be clear, but to have a robust debate around ideas is how we actually come to reason conclusions and showing both sides of a story is important. You know, the Hunter Biden laptop just disappearing in the abyss of the cover up of large social media companies and many of the news franchises is a really terrifying story. Would have changed the election? Probably not, but your American voter has been entitled to know about this information. Absolutely, Like, if we want our democracy to work, we need people who have the time and the ability to access the relevant information on candidates. It made a change our view on a candidate, but we should have the ability to make an informed, in reason decision. Citadel CEO Ken Griffin there at the Milk and Institute Bloomber will we bring you more coverage from the global conference throughout this week's Stay tuned to Bloomberg Television right here. And speaking of media companies, they are now struggling as concerns over what role online media will play in the future. Tech companies lost nearly two trillion dollars in market value during the month of April alone. Why now and how long will it last. I'm joined now by lfshead Partners Rich Greenfield to get his perspective. So, when you look at media companies in particular Netflix, Spotify, Meta, Rich all down more so far this year? How long does this keep up? Look? This is pretty ugly, and I think part of the challenges we're in sort of unchartered territory Emily, Like, we don't short, we know what a recession looks like. We know what global or geopolitical unrest looks like over in Eastern Europe and Russia, et cetera. What we don't know is sort of the the unlock effect of the pandemic. And what I mean by that is, you know, has consumer behavior really fundamentally changed? You know, you're looking at sort of a surgeon vacation travel, right People want to be out of their houses. You know, Look, try to book a trip to Disney World right now. It is complete and utter insanity trying to get into Disney World, even without European travel. So what's really happened to streaming? Has there been a fundamental change in sort of the future of streaming television or the shift from linear television to streaming television, or do we just shoot two years too far up the curve too fast, and it's gonna take time for consumers to actually catch up now and for it's just the business and evaluations to sort of catch up. And that's what we're struggling with, what everyone investor wise is struggling with. Like we used to talk about there being seven hundred, eight hundred, maybe even a billion of homes that would do streaming television, whether you're talking about Netflix or Disney, like, that was the total addressable market we call TAM that everyone was excited about. Has it changed? Like is it much lower now? Is the time to get there longer? Or pricing gonna have to be you know lower to get there. Those are the things everyone is grappling with. Like, I don't think we've fundamentally changed, but I do think the combination of pandemic unlock, geopolitical inflation, maybe a recession in Europe, maybe fears of recession in the US, like all of that is you know, look at the price of eggs, like right, like, there are a lot of things going on right now, and nobody right like, there is nobody right now that understands what the other side of a pan two year pandemic looks like because we've never lived through this in the markets we have today with that effect, and so this is just new and virgin territory from an analytical standpoint, and it's making it very hard not just for us. These companies can't predict their business. So you recently said advertising is falling apart, the cable bundle is falling apart, streaming has slowed. Is there a good media business to be in right now? It is, well, the obvious one, right I mean, there's two businesses that are obviously big beneficiaries right now. One is, you know, my partner Brandon Ross covers the entire live entertainment space. I mean Live Nation is on fire. They're like, it is just an insane how good that businesses? Tickets go on sale and they're sold out two seconds later. So live entertainment is clearly a benefit a sary right now. You see it across that category. The other one, you know, and you're you're showing Netflix on the screen in terms of sort of what content is available. The business that's also benefiting from this explosion of streaming services is content creation. And if you're in the business of making content, that business has gotten far, far better because there's incredible demand from all of these services. So production studios have been big beneficiaries. The problem is there's not a lot of pure play production studios to actually invest in. Like Sony is not a streamer, right, Sony doesn't have a streamer. They have a lot of other businesses. But Sony's production business has been incredible in terms of what they've created over the course of the past year. The problem is there's just not a lot of ways to play that. Obviously, in live entertainment, you can own Live Nation. That's been a great stop. What are you expecting to see when we see Disney's results? I mean you mentioned that theme parks are booming, and so if you're a business like Disney and you have a streaming arm but also a theme park arm, are you well insulated or not? You would have thought they'd be well insulated. The stock obviously, I mean the stock peaked what a hundred and ninety and is sitting at a hundred and twelve ish. I don't know where it closed today, but like it has been beat up. I mean, Disney has been trading down every single day, and I think part of it it's really twofold one. I think global economic fear, right, so fear of not so much. How good the theme parks are right now, But what happens if we go into more of a global recession is certainly of fear. And then the other piece of it, right is you know, the hope or the reason to own Disney. For for multiple years, the reason to own did Disney was, hey, this is a company with a Netflix inside, right, Like they're the only company coming out of the Fox acquisition. This is the only company that can really rival Netflix and create a Netflix. Well, the problem is, as you just showed on the screen, Netflix is valuation has been eviscerated with it. So what is the implied value of this Netflix inside of Disney? It's obviously far less and and look emily the other piece of this is both Netflix and Disney in the past three months sort of out of nowhere, have come out and told you, in order to grow our businesses, we now think we have to incorporate advertising. That was something I mean, Disney was on record saying just a year ago, we don't want to put advertising in Disney. Plus now they're gonna start doing it later this year. Netflix had been pretty much religion was never going to do advertising, and now all of a sudden, Retastings is talking about how in the next couple of years they're open to incorporating advertising and think it could be additive. And so, you know, do you believe that advertising in this content is helpful? It's it's sort of a red flag for investors of why are these companies all of a sudden who didn't feel like they needed advertising, whose prices are so much cheaper than the cable bundle, while all of a sudden are they're resorting to advertising. You know, I don't think I don't hear a whole lot of consumers go, I know every consumer wants lower prices. I don't hear a whole lot of consumers saying, God, I really would like advertising inside of my media content. Well, here's something that consumers most of them do want, and that is sports. Do you think I mean in Disney of course has ESPN, but could sports? We're seeing Apple and Amazon betting on sports. Could sports be the answer? Quickly, I've only got about thirty seconds left. I think sports can be an answer as a as an add on sports, as a dedicated streaming service. It's very hard to make the math work. I mean, Amazon's made the most robust move with Thursday night Football. Let's see I think that we're gonna basically, I'm gonna say stay tuned. Amazon needs to show that they can generate a massive audience for Thursday night Football, where the billion dollars they spend is going to look like a very bad investment for streaming. This is the biggest investment ever made in streaming sports. Let's revisit this when we see what the numbers look like in terms of viewership. Come the fall, Rich Greenfield Chud Partners. Always good to have you, Rich, Thanks for making chat for Rest today. Coming up, he says he's stepping down as interim CEO of Twitter. That's a joke, of course, but Twitter didn't find it too funny. We'll have more on that next. This is Bloomberg time for our Crypto report. Now we want to take another look at Twitter, this time from a slightly different angle. Last week, crypto executive Stanni Kolichov tweeted to the masses that he had been named Twitter's interim CEO. That was a false claim, of course, or maybe just a joke. Shortly after his account was suspended by the social media giant. In less than twenty four hours later, Twitter reversed that suspension. Well, he's back now talking more about his faux appointment and more. Stanni Kolichov, founder and CEO of the Open Source Market Protocol. They with me, Now, okay, so Stannie, what exactly happened there? UM, you tweet that you're the interim CEO, you're quickly banned then reinstated twenty four hours later. Yeah, I mean it was definitely everything happened but quickly. So essentially I made a kind of like a tweet that's supposed to be a joke about essentially becoming a interim CEO of Twitter, UM, followed by the lot of kind of news about the Elon Musk acquiring UM Twitter and making it private, and I'm known in the vectory space for for BA, ticket building a piece and flights social media, the Lens protocol, and essentially UM. I continued the joke with actually laying down a road map for Twitter for ninety days, essentially shipping the edit button that Twitter has been working for for quite a while, and and also making Twitter more open, opening up the algorithms and making them open source. And and even creating kind of like a more decentil Twitter as well. And then what happened is that UM I got suspended UM and at some point UM there was this kind of like a hashtag free stunic movement then started to pick up UM in the vectory community and I was able to get back in, but for a period of time I I lost my followers in and also the nexus my BM So that was an interesting experience. So Twitter hasn't responded to this situation directly, but it certainly seems like they took your tweet seriously and then decided maybe they shouldn't have taken it so seriously. But it does raise a debate about what's real and fake UH and free uh in the in the world of speech. What do you think the learning is here? Yeah, definitely the timing is quite interesting, the regarding uh the freedom of speech, especially because Twitter itself and many of this bigger social media platforms day they kind of artists, uh the digital phone halls where where everyone can comment and talk about and and you have your audiences and essentially UM in my case, for example, when I got the band UM that Twitter was my only public facing platform, So where I have my followers and my audience and and my communication channel with with my audience. And I think the challenging part here is that when you have a platform and the motivation that isn't open, uh, it's it's very kind of like a hard to create competition in terms of the algorithm that are used, um, showing the content or motivating the content, or even understanding the reasons behind the different kinds of suspensions and bands. And I think, like from the victory crypto perspective, what's fascinating is that there's a movement about the essentralizing many of imports and parts of the infrastructure, and that might be financial infrastructure that it has been happening with this in choice finance, but now also with the social media, because social media as an infrastructure is very valuable and maybe there's kind of like a thinking behind of it that it's so valuable that it shouldn't be completely owned by the few or or let's say, uh even like private heights, but actually everything should be open and anyone can and customize and build algorithms and let the users choose which of these algorithms are most vorable and and affair to them but you know, one of our Bloomberg opinion column this makes this point today that open sourcing the algorithm would open up average users to a lot more unwanted content. I mean, is open sourcing the algorithm as Elon Musk seems to want to do, really the right move. I think it's all about giving choices to the user. So for example, what we're doing at lants protocol, we're simply create blockchain these social graph where you can create a profile and and then you have your follower relationships on chain. So for example, if something like this happens where you get banned in the one application, you can go to another application and log in with your accounts and you have your followings for example. Recently, actually Bloomberg reported that Facebook discontinued the podcasting services in their platform, meaning that all of this uh podcaster that has been building their audience on Facebook, they pretty much lost the audience and the hard work what what what was putting into that relationships. So essentially, by opening up the social graph, any application developer new entrepreneur who figures out interacting new way with the content can create a new application. Since the barriers slow and and basically creates more usability that way, and the users can then choose what they want to use. Quick pick pitch Stanni of thirty seconds. What do you think the is better about the lens protocol and this Web three alternative than Twitter today? I think essentially less protocol is about giving opportunities for anyone to build new ways to interact with the content, but also for the users to simply create the profile. Ones have their following relationships on the box chain and essentially no any single platform can take that away from you. So what it means that first time ever all the platforms like Twitter, Facebook, they actually need to compete on the algorithms they are providing you and you as a user, you're not locked into the platform itself. And this is definitely like a new dynamic al right, Stanni Kolschov of a founder and CEO, not the interim CEO of Twitter. To be clear, that was a joke, Stanni, thank you for joining us. The European Union has hit Apple with a formal antitrust suit over iPhone payments. The complaint alleges that Apple abuses its dominance over mobile wallets on its devices via its Apple Pay service. The company could face hefty fines. Apple says it's contactless pay system helps consumers. A story will continue to follow, and that does it for the sedition of Bloomberg Technology. We are back Tuesday with more earnings including air b D and Lift. Don't forget to check out our new podcast, find it wherever you get your podcast. I'm Emily Changing in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg