Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Vla Loow in San Francisco.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Vla Loow in San Francisco.

This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. President Trump's families getting into the mobile phone business with the Trump branded service plus Meta.

This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. President Trump's families getting into the mobile phone business with the Trump branded service plus Meta.

We'll start showing ads in WhatsApp and offer paid subscriptions for the first time.

We'll start showing ads in WhatsApp and offer paid subscriptions for the first time.

And robotics firm one Ex Technology says it can evaluate a robot's performance without deploying it into the real world. But first, President Trump is attending a Group of Seventh summit in Canada today. This amid tariff uncertainty, a Middle East crisis between Israel and Iran. Let's go over to the G seven summit where Bloomberg's and Marie Horden is standing by AMH. What do we need to know?

And robotics firm one Ex Technology says it can evaluate a robot's performance without deploying it into the real world. But first, President Trump is attending a Group of Seventh summit in Canada today. This amid tariff uncertainty, a Middle East crisis between Israel and Iran. Let's go over to the G seven summit where Bloomberg's and Marie Horden is standing by AMH. What do we need to know?

Well, certainly this is going to be a packed summit and what's going on in the Middle East is certainly taking center stage now really topping the agenda. We are waiting for President Trump to have a first bilateral meeting before the summit really kicks off. In earnest with Mark Karney, the Prime Minister of Canada, and really the Canadians here are trying to avoid what happened in twenty eighteen. You may remember that viral photo and the President was sitting with his arms crossed looking up at Angela Merkel, the then German Chancellor. She was surrounded by a number of leaders, the only one that's lasted since a fence, and then, of course President Trump pulled the US out of that joint communicate. So Mark Kearney's taking a different approach this time, looking at different statements that they can have a common thread for specifics, not one communicate for wide range of topics, maybe something regarding artificial intelligence, critical minerals. Potentially there will not be an agreement from all of these countries when it comes to things like the war in Ukraine, things like climate change, or even when it comes to what is going on with Iran and Israel. That is certainly going to be top of the agenda today. The President was speaking about as he left the White House yesterday and his way to Canada, and he was saying that these two may have to fight it out, but in the end he wants a deal.

Well, certainly this is going to be a packed summit and what's going on in the Middle East is certainly taking center stage now really topping the agenda. We are waiting for President Trump to have a first bilateral meeting before the summit really kicks off. In earnest with Mark Karney, the Prime Minister of Canada, and really the Canadians here are trying to avoid what happened in twenty eighteen. You may remember that viral photo and the President was sitting with his arms crossed looking up at Angela Merkel, the then German Chancellor. She was surrounded by a number of leaders, the only one that's lasted since a fence, and then, of course President Trump pulled the US out of that joint communicate. So Mark Kearney's taking a different approach this time, looking at different statements that they can have a common thread for specifics, not one communicate for wide range of topics, maybe something regarding artificial intelligence, critical minerals. Potentially there will not be an agreement from all of these countries when it comes to things like the war in Ukraine, things like climate change, or even when it comes to what is going on with Iran and Israel. That is certainly going to be top of the agenda today. The President was speaking about as he left the White House yesterday and his way to Canada, and he was saying that these two may have to fight it out, but in the end he wants a deal.

Bloomberg's Amory Horden will stick with what's happening in the G seven throughout the day. Thank you. Let's go with Donald Trump and over to DC to talk about some news in technology. The President's family launching a Trump branded mobile phone service that will rely on wireless networks and hardware quotes made in America, Bloomberg, Kelsey Griffiths here with more. The idea is that they're not building the network from the ground upright, They basically licensed capacity from the three major US carriers. But what else do we know about Trump Mobile? That's right ed?

Bloomberg's Amory Horden will stick with what's happening in the G seven throughout the day. Thank you. Let's go with Donald Trump and over to DC to talk about some news in technology. The President's family launching a Trump branded mobile phone service that will rely on wireless networks and hardware quotes made in America, Bloomberg, Kelsey Griffiths here with more. The idea is that they're not building the network from the ground upright, They basically licensed capacity from the three major US carriers. But what else do we know about Trump Mobile? That's right ed?

So the Trump family's mobile service is they say they're going to rely on the three major US telecom networks that.

So the Trump family's mobile service is they say they're going to rely on the three major US telecom networks that.

Have already been built.

Have already been built.

And this is a pretty common strategy that we see. Meant Mobile is one of the pretty well known so called mv and os that was eventually acquired by T Mobile. We also saw some celebrities last week looking to get into the mobile game, launching their own mv and O. So the Trump family is following a pretty popular tradition here by getting into this.

And this is a pretty common strategy that we see. Meant Mobile is one of the pretty well known so called mv and os that was eventually acquired by T Mobile. We also saw some celebrities last week looking to get into the mobile game, launching their own mv and O. So the Trump family is following a pretty popular tradition here by getting into this.

Business, Kelsey Popular.

Business, Kelsey Popular.

Last time I checked, there were one hundreds, more than one hundred here in the United States of mobile virtual network operators.

Last time I checked, there were one hundreds, more than one hundred here in the United States of mobile virtual network operators.

But what they're trying to tap into.

But what they're trying to tap into.

Here is the Trump narrative, the Trump brand. How will it be priced versus other competitors in the space.

Here is the Trump narrative, the Trump brand. How will it be priced versus other competitors in the space.

That's right, So the brand is it's going to cost about just under fifty dollars. I think it's a forty seven to forty five per month, and I would say that is pretty competitive with the space. These mv and os tend to target these niche markets that are looking at customers that maybe don't want to or can't pay one hundred dollars or or you know, somewhere in that range. So I do think that there is a chance they will be targeting this niche that you know, maybe other operators aren't necessary.

That's right, So the brand is it's going to cost about just under fifty dollars. I think it's a forty seven to forty five per month, and I would say that is pretty competitive with the space. These mv and os tend to target these niche markets that are looking at customers that maybe don't want to or can't pay one hundred dollars or or you know, somewhere in that range. So I do think that there is a chance they will be targeting this niche that you know, maybe other operators aren't necessary.

Are you looking at Kelsey? It's a competitive field, right when you're looking at any carrier. When I was reading the news from Trump Mobile, they're including everything that you'd expect, unlimited text, data, voice protection, overseas call. Just give us the basics of the plan.

Are you looking at Kelsey? It's a competitive field, right when you're looking at any carrier. When I was reading the news from Trump Mobile, they're including everything that you'd expect, unlimited text, data, voice protection, overseas call. Just give us the basics of the plan.

Yeah, exactly. So there are going to be some of these value added services on top of your mobile services that you would expect. There is going to be some sort of roadside assistance, there will be international calling thrown in, and there's also going to be the opportunity to purchase a mobile device that will also be branded with the Trump family logo. It will come in a gold variety, which you know, I'm looking forward to seeing.

Yeah, exactly. So there are going to be some of these value added services on top of your mobile services that you would expect. There is going to be some sort of roadside assistance, there will be international calling thrown in, and there's also going to be the opportunity to purchase a mobile device that will also be branded with the Trump family logo. It will come in a gold variety, which you know, I'm looking forward to seeing.

Kelsey Griffiths puts us perfectly onto our next discussion because we want to talk about the hardware perspective. Bomberg's Dana woman is, hey, with US four hundred and ninety nine dollars, you're going to be able to get it as soon as September. You can put one hundred dollars down for initial well, name.

Kelsey Griffiths puts us perfectly onto our next discussion because we want to talk about the hardware perspective. Bomberg's Dana woman is, hey, with US four hundred and ninety nine dollars, you're going to be able to get it as soon as September. You can put one hundred dollars down for initial well, name.

On a list. But can they make that in America?

On a list. But can they make that in America?

Never say never, but certainly the smartphone industry is not really making phones here in the US right now, and it's unclear from the report so far and what we know so far who exactly are with what partners Trump and his family would be making these devices. All that we know, as Kelsey has said, is that the advice would be golden color, which is very on brand for Trump, and that it will be caught, that it will be priced at four hundred and ninety nine dollars, which even before recent inflation, was a pretty budget price for a phone and seems especially low these days. So not knowing anything about the hardware, we can at least say safely these are probably not phones offering the most advanced features. And maybe that's not the point, as Kelsey said, for this particular niche right.

Never say never, but certainly the smartphone industry is not really making phones here in the US right now, and it's unclear from the report so far and what we know so far who exactly are with what partners Trump and his family would be making these devices. All that we know, as Kelsey has said, is that the advice would be golden color, which is very on brand for Trump, and that it will be caught, that it will be priced at four hundred and ninety nine dollars, which even before recent inflation, was a pretty budget price for a phone and seems especially low these days. So not knowing anything about the hardware, we can at least say safely these are probably not phones offering the most advanced features. And maybe that's not the point, as Kelsey said, for this particular niche right.

The point, Jiner is that this is built as being designed and built in America at a time where the President is putting pressure on Apple to build the iPhone in America or face tariffs of as much as twenty five percent. I think it's really notable that it's going to run Android OS as well.

The point, Jiner is that this is built as being designed and built in America at a time where the President is putting pressure on Apple to build the iPhone in America or face tariffs of as much as twenty five percent. I think it's really notable that it's going to run Android OS as well.

Yes, absolutely, as we said.

Yes, absolutely, as we said.

As I said, it's unclear exactly how the Trump organization would make this phone come to pass so quickly in the US, just knowing from Apple and other manufacturers as well all of the human resources, the human labor and physical resources that just are lacking here in the US. And by human resources, I mean specialized talent that know how to use this particular manufacturing equipment. A lot of the equipment itself is abroad. So it's unclear exactly how the team plans to surmount those challenges that other smartphone makers either haven't tackled or just seem to be avoiding.

As I said, it's unclear exactly how the Trump organization would make this phone come to pass so quickly in the US, just knowing from Apple and other manufacturers as well all of the human resources, the human labor and physical resources that just are lacking here in the US. And by human resources, I mean specialized talent that know how to use this particular manufacturing equipment. A lot of the equipment itself is abroad. So it's unclear exactly how the team plans to surmount those challenges that other smartphone makers either haven't tackled or just seem to be avoiding.

It's interesting who ultimately it'll be competing against because we've heard.

It's interesting who ultimately it'll be competing against because we've heard.

Him take aim President Trump.

Him take aim President Trump.

This is of course the phone being made by President by Trump organization in his family. But President Trump himself, the administration of taken aim at Apple front and center. Bring your manufacturing back to the United States, but at a four nine to nine price point. Yeah, I might compete against an iPhone se but really it's going against other Android phones. It's going against the pixel AA for example.

This is of course the phone being made by President by Trump organization in his family. But President Trump himself, the administration of taken aim at Apple front and center. Bring your manufacturing back to the United States, but at a four nine to nine price point. Yeah, I might compete against an iPhone se but really it's going against other Android phones. It's going against the pixel AA for example.

Yes, maybe perhaps not even the pixel A line, perhaps even more budget, sort of bargain basement phones that I'm not able to recite offhand, and most of us can't recite offhand.

Yes, maybe perhaps not even the pixel A line, perhaps even more budget, sort of bargain basement phones that I'm not able to recite offhand, and most of us can't recite offhand.

And I think one.

And I think one.

Key question is how many does the organization plan to produce. I think one of the key lines in our story is that smartphone makers aren't producing.

Key question is how many does the organization plan to produce. I think one of the key lines in our story is that smartphone makers aren't producing.

At scale in the US.

At scale in the US.

So it's that, to me, is a really key question. Could you produce a small, really sort of limited run number of phones here in the US, probably more easily than Apple could produce its whole iPhone line. So I think the volume that they're expecting is an unknown detail, but seems like an important one to me.

So it's that, to me, is a really key question. Could you produce a small, really sort of limited run number of phones here in the US, probably more easily than Apple could produce its whole iPhone line. So I think the volume that they're expecting is an unknown detail, but seems like an important one to me.

Motorola tried to build the Moto X in Dallas Fort Worth in twenty thirteen, and they shut the plant a year later. It was an Android based phone because the costs were too high. I mean, that's what we're talking about here. Karen made a really interesting point in our group chat earlier about like what is four nine nine relative to the field. It's like iPhone se It's like that kind of mid tier of Android smartphone. But making it and the number of components go into it. That's like the key question here if they can have a business in it.

Motorola tried to build the Moto X in Dallas Fort Worth in twenty thirteen, and they shut the plant a year later. It was an Android based phone because the costs were too high. I mean, that's what we're talking about here. Karen made a really interesting point in our group chat earlier about like what is four nine nine relative to the field. It's like iPhone se It's like that kind of mid tier of Android smartphone. But making it and the number of components go into it. That's like the key question here if they can have a business in it.

Yes, absolutely, data on all right, Bluebergs, go for it.

Yes, absolutely, data on all right, Bluebergs, go for it.

Cara, I'll wrap it up.

Cara, I'll wrap it up.

We've talked so much all things about the future of actual hardware and software. But let's take a look at what's happening in the world of crypto now ed because there's some Trump action there too.

We've talked so much all things about the future of actual hardware and software. But let's take a look at what's happening in the world of crypto now ed because there's some Trump action there too.

Let's hina light what's happening with DJT.

Let's hina light what's happening with DJT.

Now we know that we were reporting last week about how they're going to be starting to by bitcoin in the treasury. Well, now we understand that they're pivoting with true social filing to the SEC with an s one saying they want a bitcoin in ethereum etf Now they've already.

Now we know that we were reporting last week about how they're going to be starting to by bitcoin in the treasury. Well, now we understand that they're pivoting with true social filing to the SEC with an s one saying they want a bitcoin in ethereum etf Now they've already.

Looked at a Bitcoin ETF.

Looked at a Bitcoin ETF.

But this is scaling out to Ether as well. Bitcoin's up two point seventy five percent. Ether is up more than five percent. Remember perhaps bouncing back after last week's sell off amid some of that risk aversion. But check out what's happening with Circle, the latest crypto ipo is just going from.

But this is scaling out to Ether as well. Bitcoin's up two point seventy five percent. Ether is up more than five percent. Remember perhaps bouncing back after last week's sell off amid some of that risk aversion. But check out what's happening with Circle, the latest crypto ipo is just going from.

Strength to strength throughout more than twenty percent.

Strength to strength throughout more than twenty percent.

As we all anticipate that the latest Genius Act that will put into legal clarity stable coins is likely to occur this week.

As we all anticipate that the latest Genius Act that will put into legal clarity stable coins is likely to occur this week.

I also want to.

I also want to.

Say that Tron is being reported in the ft that Tron my ipo here in the United States via a reverse merger, and that's sending other companies, particularly higher.

Say that Tron is being reported in the ft that Tron my ipo here in the United States via a reverse merger, and that's sending other companies, particularly higher.

Ed coming up. Robots.

Ed coming up. Robots.

They're just like us now, possibly more so, as robotics firm one X Technologies launches a world model that will teach robots to anticipate and understand the physics that's all around them. That's coming up next. This is Bloomberg technology companies like Tesla betting their future on humanoid robots that fill labor shortages, particularly in manufacturing. Today, robotics firm one X Technologies is out with a new world model it says can evaluate a robot's performance without deploying it into the real world. The models are data driven simulator of humanoids with the grounded understanding of physics of their surrounding world. The CEO and CTO of one X Burn Burnick joins us here in San Francisco. You would claim that this world model is the first of its kind, and you have the data from it that that proves its effectiveness. But the main point is validation of capability without collecting the real world data.

They're just like us now, possibly more so, as robotics firm one X Technologies launches a world model that will teach robots to anticipate and understand the physics that's all around them. That's coming up next. This is Bloomberg technology companies like Tesla betting their future on humanoid robots that fill labor shortages, particularly in manufacturing. Today, robotics firm one X Technologies is out with a new world model it says can evaluate a robot's performance without deploying it into the real world. The models are data driven simulator of humanoids with the grounded understanding of physics of their surrounding world. The CEO and CTO of one X Burn Burnick joins us here in San Francisco. You would claim that this world model is the first of its kind, and you have the data from it that that proves its effectiveness. But the main point is validation of capability without collecting the real world data.

Kind of yes, you got to model the right.

Kind of yes, you got to model the right.

So what had really does us is it gives us the ability to basically see the future with respect to what would happen if the role what actually takes these specific actions. And this allows us to really test at scale where these new AI models that we're actually creating will be better than the previous ones, right, and that really allows us to climb this and really to create better and better our models for physical labor.

So what had really does us is it gives us the ability to basically see the future with respect to what would happen if the role what actually takes these specific actions. And this allows us to really test at scale where these new AI models that we're actually creating will be better than the previous ones, right, and that really allows us to climb this and really to create better and better our models for physical labor.

I wrote in the Tech and Depth newsletter this morning that if you look at particularly manufacturing jobs data, there is a need there. You know, it's hard to fill those roles. Why does this world model open a path to a world where humanoid robotics are genuinely useful, deployable in manufacturing or other logistic settings where a human is currently needed.

I wrote in the Tech and Depth newsletter this morning that if you look at particularly manufacturing jobs data, there is a need there. You know, it's hard to fill those roles. Why does this world model open a path to a world where humanoid robotics are genuinely useful, deployable in manufacturing or other logistic settings where a human is currently needed.

So I think like taking a step back to us, like you know, we're a consumer company. Seen often ask right now, but to us, it's really about how do you create an actual abundance of artificial labor as quickly as possible, which means going into factories, going into enterprise services and everything right. But to get there and get your robos to be intelligent enough to solve these tasks, you just need this incredible diversity of data.

So I think like taking a step back to us, like you know, we're a consumer company. Seen often ask right now, but to us, it's really about how do you create an actual abundance of artificial labor as quickly as possible, which means going into factories, going into enterprise services and everything right. But to get there and get your robos to be intelligent enough to solve these tasks, you just need this incredible diversity of data.

And that's why we're going to the home first. And if you're deploying.

And that's why we're going to the home first. And if you're deploying.

These robots at scaling to homes, living and learning among us, then we also need to be able in a safe manner to test how will our models perform? And this is really what the world mode allows us to do. It allows us to take all of this data that we're gathering, create new models, and then see if we deployed these to our fleet of robots, how would it actually perform, Would all of the behaviors that it do actually be safe? Would it be able to do things that couldn't do before? And kind of really benchmark the models so we can progress.

These robots at scaling to homes, living and learning among us, then we also need to be able in a safe manner to test how will our models perform? And this is really what the world mode allows us to do. It allows us to take all of this data that we're gathering, create new models, and then see if we deployed these to our fleet of robots, how would it actually perform, Would all of the behaviors that it do actually be safe? Would it be able to do things that couldn't do before? And kind of really benchmark the models so we can progress.

How soffiscated is the hardware right now, we're talking about how the models and the software is going to really bring it to bear. What are they already doing in the home those that are out in beta.

How soffiscated is the hardware right now, we're talking about how the models and the software is going to really bring it to bear. What are they already doing in the home those that are out in beta.

So the hardware is actually really getting there. So I have one in my home, for example, and it's doing like tidying, cleaning, vacuuming, some laundry, different kind of tasks.

So the hardware is actually really getting there. So I have one in my home, for example, and it's doing like tidying, cleaning, vacuuming, some laundry, different kind of tasks.

The whole are on the home.

The whole are on the home.

And of course also the social aspect of this, right being able to have this AI companion together with you, which does not allow you doesn't actually require you to look at your phone all the time to be able to interface with AI. Now, currently this is still pretty brittle and the magic is there, and then maybe it lasts for a minute and then you need someone to nudge it in the right direction. Right, but it's really getting to where you see where this will go and the hardware can do it. And now it's really about how do we gather the data that allows us to automate all this behavior. And that's also really what we're doing this year, right, So when we're talking about the goal being by end of year, we're actually going to have this commercially out in the market. In homes, it's really important to do expectation management because this is not the consumer product at that point that everyone will have at home. This is the big beginning of a journey where we're inviting people in on our mission to really almost like adopt an neo into your family, have it, live and learn among us, and have a lot of fun around fun along the way.

And of course also the social aspect of this, right being able to have this AI companion together with you, which does not allow you doesn't actually require you to look at your phone all the time to be able to interface with AI. Now, currently this is still pretty brittle and the magic is there, and then maybe it lasts for a minute and then you need someone to nudge it in the right direction. Right, but it's really getting to where you see where this will go and the hardware can do it. And now it's really about how do we gather the data that allows us to automate all this behavior. And that's also really what we're doing this year, right, So when we're talking about the goal being by end of year, we're actually going to have this commercially out in the market. In homes, it's really important to do expectation management because this is not the consumer product at that point that everyone will have at home. This is the big beginning of a journey where we're inviting people in on our mission to really almost like adopt an neo into your family, have it, live and learn among us, and have a lot of fun around fun along the way.

Okay, see your.

Okay, see your.

Pitch, it's still early adopted here.

Pitch, it's still early adopted here.

Basically you're pitching an earlier adoptor in the home. Go to outside the home for a moment. I really want your expertise. When we're talking about having robots help manufacture here in the US, President Trump wants to build Apple phones here in the US. Is robotics at a level in the next few years where we could ever make that achievable.

Basically you're pitching an earlier adoptor in the home. Go to outside the home for a moment. I really want your expertise. When we're talking about having robots help manufacture here in the US, President Trump wants to build Apple phones here in the US. Is robotics at a level in the next few years where we could ever make that achievable.

In the next few years.

In the next few years.

I think like this is going to happen a lot sooner than people might think. But it's not happening this year. But we are a few years, not a few decades away from where actually, most importantly to me, robots can build robots, meaning we can have robots build more robots, We can have robots build out the energy infrastructure, the data centers, the chip fabs and really enable us to get this.

I think like this is going to happen a lot sooner than people might think. But it's not happening this year. But we are a few years, not a few decades away from where actually, most importantly to me, robots can build robots, meaning we can have robots build more robots, We can have robots build out the energy infrastructure, the data centers, the chip fabs and really enable us to get this.

Multiplier on the workforce for artificial labor.

Multiplier on the workforce for artificial labor.

Which will allow us to automate all kinds of factory work across the US. And I think this can have a tremendous impact on our GDP right and how we.

Which will allow us to automate all kinds of factory work across the US. And I think this can have a tremendous impact on our GDP right and how we.

Can grow our way out of the current deficit.

Can grow our way out of the current deficit.

But I also wanted to just do expectation management and say like this is years away, but years it's not that long in the ground picture of things, it's not.

But I also wanted to just do expectation management and say like this is years away, but years it's not that long in the ground picture of things, it's not.

Okay, you first.

Okay, you first.

Came on our radar in Video GtC. You had this sort of very prominent place, and I know that the one X exchanged jackets with Jensen, etc. What is the unlock bin from Nvidia? You know they always talk about how they work in multiple ways, not just providing the basis for training, but the localized silicon for the robot itself and then simulated or virtual data. Just to explain the relationship.

Came on our radar in Video GtC. You had this sort of very prominent place, and I know that the one X exchanged jackets with Jensen, etc. What is the unlock bin from Nvidia? You know they always talk about how they work in multiple ways, not just providing the basis for training, but the localized silicon for the robot itself and then simulated or virtual data. Just to explain the relationship.

Yeah, sure, and Video is an amazing partner, right, and we're working very deeply together both with our engineering team. We're using their hardware, we're using their simulators, and I think they've done an incredible job in just enabling the ecosystem and all of the things you've touched upon.

Yeah, sure, and Video is an amazing partner, right, and we're working very deeply together both with our engineering team. We're using their hardware, we're using their simulators, and I think they've done an incredible job in just enabling the ecosystem and all of the things you've touched upon.

We are using right.

We are using right.

So they're very fast simulators that allow us to learn a lot in simulation before we have to go into the real world. It's really valuable for us. We had some great results we published last week from our reinforcement learning and our work on how to use the entire body like you can see here to robot actually using its entire body to do tasks, and this is training nvidas simulators. The compute on Border robot actually is nvida's harbor, and they've done a great job in creating very good embedded compute that can allow us to run the robot fully kind of enclosed. Right doesn't actually need to be connected to the internet to do its tasks. And of course we're training on the infrastructure from NVIDA like everyone else.

So they're very fast simulators that allow us to learn a lot in simulation before we have to go into the real world. It's really valuable for us. We had some great results we published last week from our reinforcement learning and our work on how to use the entire body like you can see here to robot actually using its entire body to do tasks, and this is training nvidas simulators. The compute on Border robot actually is nvida's harbor, and they've done a great job in creating very good embedded compute that can allow us to run the robot fully kind of enclosed. Right doesn't actually need to be connected to the internet to do its tasks. And of course we're training on the infrastructure from NVIDA like everyone else.

We're talking a lot about your model world model today, but we're showing also pictures on the screen of the hardware side. What is different, what is your different mission statement to a figure, AI, agility, TESLA and optimists all the things we've been talking about for many weeks.

We're talking a lot about your model world model today, but we're showing also pictures on the screen of the hardware side. What is different, what is your different mission statement to a figure, AI, agility, TESLA and optimists all the things we've been talking about for many weeks.

Sure, so of course I don't want to speak on other's behalf. But I can see like my view on this, so I'd actually say it's pretty different because most of the companies in this field they're focusing on how can we be useful as quickly as possible in manufacturing or some kind of enterprise, while to me, it's actually all about how can we make robots that are safe so they can live and learn among people, because that's how we get to truly intelligent machines. And if you want to put them in consumer they need to be extremely affordable. So you need to have this combination of something that's very safe but still affordable and very capable, and then you can have this living and learning among people.

Sure, so of course I don't want to speak on other's behalf. But I can see like my view on this, so I'd actually say it's pretty different because most of the companies in this field they're focusing on how can we be useful as quickly as possible in manufacturing or some kind of enterprise, while to me, it's actually all about how can we make robots that are safe so they can live and learn among people, because that's how we get to truly intelligent machines. And if you want to put them in consumer they need to be extremely affordable. So you need to have this combination of something that's very safe but still affordable and very capable, and then you can have this living and learning among people.

And basically solve the full problem, right, how do we.

And basically solve the full problem, right, how do we.

Get robots that are as intelligent as us so that we can easily instruct them in how to do labor across society at scale? So I'd say like we're betting to go directly to the goal instead of going through the factories.

Get robots that are as intelligent as us so that we can easily instruct them in how to do labor across society at scale? So I'd say like we're betting to go directly to the goal instead of going through the factories.

Ben Berneck, it's been great having you CEO and CTO of one X Technology is fascinating.

Ben Berneck, it's been great having you CEO and CTO of one X Technology is fascinating.

Thanks.

Thanks.

It is time now for talking tech and first up shares a Roku surging today. Now the company has announced a partnership with Amazon Ads that it says will allow advertisers access to more than eighty percent of US households with Amazon Connected TVs.

It is time now for talking tech and first up shares a Roku surging today. Now the company has announced a partnership with Amazon Ads that it says will allow advertisers access to more than eighty percent of US households with Amazon Connected TVs.

Now.

Now.

The full integration and roll out to all advertisers that's expected by Q four of this year likely drive more demand for Roku's US inventory.

The full integration and roll out to all advertisers that's expected by Q four of this year likely drive more demand for Roku's US inventory.

Analysts A plus.

Analysts A plus.

Imax, while it is set to expand it screens aggressively across China, i'm act as Chinese arm alongside partner Wonder Films, says they will replace twenty seven screens in IMAX's jumbo screen. Imax will currently operate eight hundred screens in China, and it drew a record twenty two million customers from January to May.

Imax, while it is set to expand it screens aggressively across China, i'm act as Chinese arm alongside partner Wonder Films, says they will replace twenty seven screens in IMAX's jumbo screen. Imax will currently operate eight hundred screens in China, and it drew a record twenty two million customers from January to May.

And Taiwan's International.

And Taiwan's International.

Trade Administration has added Huawei and Smith it's list of blacklisted companies. It's a move that undercuts China's efforts in developing AI chip technology locally ed.

Trade Administration has added Huawei and Smith it's list of blacklisted companies. It's a move that undercuts China's efforts in developing AI chip technology locally ed.

Turning to Tesla, the company's full self driving tech stack, alongside their ability to scale, is proving to be a tailwind against drivers like Weaimo is the robotaxi race ramps up. That's the latest from Bloomberg Intelligence Steve Man, who led the research, joins us. Now, the kind of key headline from the REACT piece is that Tesla's vehicle costs is about one seventh of Weaimo's. Why were you so focused on that, Steve Well?

Turning to Tesla, the company's full self driving tech stack, alongside their ability to scale, is proving to be a tailwind against drivers like Weaimo is the robotaxi race ramps up. That's the latest from Bloomberg Intelligence Steve Man, who led the research, joins us. Now, the kind of key headline from the REACT piece is that Tesla's vehicle costs is about one seventh of Weaimo's. Why were you so focused on that, Steve Well?

I think is the critical piece in getting it on a commercial basis, on a mass scale basis. And also, you know the.

I think is the critical piece in getting it on a commercial basis, on a mass scale basis. And also, you know the.

Payback is also important.

Payback is also important.

If you can produce the cars at a fraction of the price, Look, you can get more of these vehicles out on the road. And also you know, whoever is running can actually make their money back much sooner.

If you can produce the cars at a fraction of the price, Look, you can get more of these vehicles out on the road. And also you know, whoever is running can actually make their money back much sooner.

The issue you really highlight is the lack of production of real vehicles by Weimo versus. Tesla just has hundreds of thousands of millions on the road already.

The issue you really highlight is the lack of production of real vehicles by Weimo versus. Tesla just has hundreds of thousands of millions on the road already.

Is that the key dividing factor?

Is that the key dividing factor?

Histey, that's one key dividing factor. I think technology is also important. Look, I don't want to discount Weymo technology. I think you know they've have had a number of cars on the road.

Histey, that's one key dividing factor. I think technology is also important. Look, I don't want to discount Weymo technology. I think you know they've have had a number of cars on the road.

It's working.

It's working.

You know, there's always going to be some issues here and there. But look, I think if you look at Tesla's technology and their approach with using cameras, it's just much easier to scale and especially now if you look at the recent news, you know, the Chinese are actually opening up the market, opening up the market for them and allowing them to export some of that data, training data out of China. That's a huge that's a huge win for Tesla and scaling over the long term.

You know, there's always going to be some issues here and there. But look, I think if you look at Tesla's technology and their approach with using cameras, it's just much easier to scale and especially now if you look at the recent news, you know, the Chinese are actually opening up the market, opening up the market for them and allowing them to export some of that data, training data out of China. That's a huge that's a huge win for Tesla and scaling over the long term.

Steve I used full self driving supervised the latest version this morning to go to thirty miles from my house to the studio. I do it every day. You stay very clearly it's still a level two system right on a technical basis, do you see the jump to a software platform that how is a vehicle with no one in the driver's seat at all?

Steve I used full self driving supervised the latest version this morning to go to thirty miles from my house to the studio. I do it every day. You stay very clearly it's still a level two system right on a technical basis, do you see the jump to a software platform that how is a vehicle with no one in the driver's seat at all?

That's that's gonna be a while. I have to admittedly say it's going to be a while. I think the consumer needs to gain confidence. It's going to be a gold standard. It's going to be you know, if if a car is ninety nine point ninety nine percent accurate, I think then the consumer will be more confidence. Before that, I think there's going to be always some level of monitoring from from the consumer. We're not at that stage where we see you know, this is not like the Eye Robot movie that that Will Smith was was on a long time ago, where you know cars are actually driving itself and making decisions on their own. We're not at that at that moment yet. But what's really important is the training data, and that's where Tesla also comes in as well, where they have just tons of training data from around the world.

That's that's gonna be a while. I have to admittedly say it's going to be a while. I think the consumer needs to gain confidence. It's going to be a gold standard. It's going to be you know, if if a car is ninety nine point ninety nine percent accurate, I think then the consumer will be more confidence. Before that, I think there's going to be always some level of monitoring from from the consumer. We're not at that stage where we see you know, this is not like the Eye Robot movie that that Will Smith was was on a long time ago, where you know cars are actually driving itself and making decisions on their own. We're not at that at that moment yet. But what's really important is the training data, and that's where Tesla also comes in as well, where they have just tons of training data from around the world.

Steve Man of BlueBag Intelligence is a great read. Thanks for coming on.

Steve Man of BlueBag Intelligence is a great read. Thanks for coming on.

Now coming up Meta, it has to start showing ads in WhatsApp, it's private messaging services. We'll find out what the change means for users and for the social media giant. This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York.

Now coming up Meta, it has to start showing ads in WhatsApp, it's private messaging services. We'll find out what the change means for users and for the social media giant. This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. I'm Caroline Hyde in New York.

And I met love Loow in San Francisco.

And I met love Loow in San Francisco.

Quick check on these markets said, because look, we are powering back after selling off on Friday and mid geopolitical anxiety, we rally as we all eyes atturn our attention to Iran Israel and of course what's happening at the g seventh summit. But under the hood, chip makers having a really nice day, AMD leading the charge up more than eight percent after it's unveiled last week of GPUs and some analyst notes on the back of that. But move on to Meta because it is one of the key points contributors, the second biggest points contributor.

Quick check on these markets said, because look, we are powering back after selling off on Friday and mid geopolitical anxiety, we rally as we all eyes atturn our attention to Iran Israel and of course what's happening at the g seventh summit. But under the hood, chip makers having a really nice day, AMD leading the charge up more than eight percent after it's unveiled last week of GPUs and some analyst notes on the back of that. But move on to Meta because it is one of the key points contributors, the second biggest points contributor.

On the day, we're up three percent.

On the day, we're up three percent.

Why because the announcements when it comes to advertising ED YEP.

Why because the announcements when it comes to advertising ED YEP.

Announce it's introducing ads as well as some new features into WhatsApp. It marks a change for the privacy focus messaging platform. Blue most Riley Griffin joins us, this is all about the updates tab and what people maybe outside of America actually don't appreciate. It's like one and a half billion visits per day to this updates tab. What's the ad strategy here for Meta? Because clearly the shares are higher. This is something the markets es is positive.

Announce it's introducing ads as well as some new features into WhatsApp. It marks a change for the privacy focus messaging platform. Blue most Riley Griffin joins us, this is all about the updates tab and what people maybe outside of America actually don't appreciate. It's like one and a half billion visits per day to this updates tab. What's the ad strategy here for Meta? Because clearly the shares are higher. This is something the markets es is positive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Meta has begun introducing ads to various outlets other than Instagram and Facebook, the platforms that we know really well, and here with WhatsApp, they're introducing those ads starting today, rolling that out over time into the updates tab, which is much like stories. You're able to get other kinds of information there, and they're not actually introducing it to the conversations the messages that you and I might be having ED.

Meta has begun introducing ads to various outlets other than Instagram and Facebook, the platforms that we know really well, and here with WhatsApp, they're introducing those ads starting today, rolling that out over time into the updates tab, which is much like stories. You're able to get other kinds of information there, and they're not actually introducing it to the conversations the messages that you and I might be having ED.

But this is a new revenue line. They're introducing it.

But this is a new revenue line. They're introducing it.

While at Con this week, advertising is the name of the game, and more to come in terms of how big of a share of revenue this world pull in.

While at Con this week, advertising is the name of the game, and more to come in terms of how big of a share of revenue this world pull in.

Rnie.

Rnie.

Yeah, got to walk that fine line that they don't invade what we feel is very personalized and private conversations, the going down the updates route, but also subscriptions. In the longer term, the business communications is really going to be where it's at.

Yeah, got to walk that fine line that they don't invade what we feel is very personalized and private conversations, the going down the updates route, but also subscriptions. In the longer term, the business communications is really going to be where it's at.

No doubt they've been using the platform to bring businesses on. You can communicate with airlines, with shops. But a really important point that you made, Caroline is that this was not the intention of the original WhatsApp owners when met about the company in twenty fourteen.

No doubt they've been using the platform to bring businesses on. You can communicate with airlines, with shops. But a really important point that you made, Caroline is that this was not the intention of the original WhatsApp owners when met about the company in twenty fourteen.

Even before then.

Even before then.

The co founders had said that they would never introduce ads to the platform. So this is a market change and one very specific to Mark Zuckerberg.

The co founders had said that they would never introduce ads to the platform. So this is a market change and one very specific to Mark Zuckerberg.

The main thing about Meta right now is that ads is still the core. It's still the bread and butter business. But success and growth and top line growth all justifies investment in AI. I think that's still the formula.

The main thing about Meta right now is that ads is still the core. It's still the bread and butter business. But success and growth and top line growth all justifies investment in AI. I think that's still the formula.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

We know that Meta might be spending more than seventy billion on AI this week. This comes on the news last week that Meta is finalizing a deal for Scale AI that is more than fourteen billion investment to be specific. But ads are going to be improved by AI, no doubt. And that's the conversation in comm this week.

We know that Meta might be spending more than seventy billion on AI this week. This comes on the news last week that Meta is finalizing a deal for Scale AI that is more than fourteen billion investment to be specific. But ads are going to be improved by AI, no doubt. And that's the conversation in comm this week.

And it's a perfect set up.

And it's a perfect set up.

Riley Griffin, we thank you because let's go out to CAM right now and talk about social media advertising more with Rachel Tippograph founeracy of Mick Matt. You're out there taking a step out of the sam for a moment to be with us. Rachel, just talk about the well euphoria around how generative AI is going to be helping the AI offering and advertising offering.

Riley Griffin, we thank you because let's go out to CAM right now and talk about social media advertising more with Rachel Tippograph founeracy of Mick Matt. You're out there taking a step out of the sam for a moment to be with us. Rachel, just talk about the well euphoria around how generative AI is going to be helping the AI offering and advertising offering.

But is it going to impact companies and people?

But is it going to impact companies and people?

So everyone's in agreement that AI is going to lower the barrier to entry for advertising. Where has all the friction been in the creative and ad buying process, generating creative figuring out where you're going to invest your dollars, launching those ads and auto optimizing experiences and ultimately getting reporting back. Where the friction is in the conversation right now at con with CMOS is that they absolutely agree that there are efficiency disease to be had in the process that I just describe, but what they feel cannot be outsourced is creative ideas that break through culture. And so it's interesting that Zuckerberg has been very bold in his statement where he's essentially said, by the end of twenty twenty six, all human intervention will be removed from advertising. I believe that fifty percent will be removed, but not one hundred percent. And the biggest cmos in the world share the same sentiment.

So everyone's in agreement that AI is going to lower the barrier to entry for advertising. Where has all the friction been in the creative and ad buying process, generating creative figuring out where you're going to invest your dollars, launching those ads and auto optimizing experiences and ultimately getting reporting back. Where the friction is in the conversation right now at con with CMOS is that they absolutely agree that there are efficiency disease to be had in the process that I just describe, but what they feel cannot be outsourced is creative ideas that break through culture. And so it's interesting that Zuckerberg has been very bold in his statement where he's essentially said, by the end of twenty twenty six, all human intervention will be removed from advertising. I believe that fifty percent will be removed, but not one hundred percent. And the biggest cmos in the world share the same sentiment.

What about the social media companies?

What about the social media companies?

The biggest in the world is TikTok, is it on veilzez It's general to AI offering also as bullish as Mark Zukobog.

The biggest in the world is TikTok, is it on veilzez It's general to AI offering also as bullish as Mark Zukobog.

Absolutely, there's a place to lower the barrier to entry in terms of creative What's interesting with TikTok's announcements this week is that they even said that they're going to help generate influencer content, which raises the question around authenticity. So while AI is going to help lower the barrier to entry increase productivity, it's also going to create new questions in advertising.

Absolutely, there's a place to lower the barrier to entry in terms of creative What's interesting with TikTok's announcements this week is that they even said that they're going to help generate influencer content, which raises the question around authenticity. So while AI is going to help lower the barrier to entry increase productivity, it's also going to create new questions in advertising.

Is this real?

Is this real?

How much is an advertiser willing to spend on a agentic impression? Will they spend the same amount on a human impression. It's going to create a whole new opening and advertising for new companies to come to market to define what the standardization is in terms of ad buying measurement in forms of agentic AI and creative experiences.

How much is an advertiser willing to spend on a agentic impression? Will they spend the same amount on a human impression. It's going to create a whole new opening and advertising for new companies to come to market to define what the standardization is in terms of ad buying measurement in forms of agentic AI and creative experiences.

Rachel, what are people talking about on tiktoking? Can there's a June nineteenth deadline for sale shut down? We haven't yet gotten an extension. What are you hearing?

Rachel, what are people talking about on tiktoking? Can there's a June nineteenth deadline for sale shut down? We haven't yet gotten an extension. What are you hearing?

Everyone has come to the point in this journey where they believe TikTok is here to stay. When we look at mickmac data, it's essentially held as our third most traffic channel on any given day Meta number one, Google Search number two, TikTok number three. When TikTok went dark on January nineteenth, it did take about until March first for advertisers to get back to Q four levels of traffic. By May, we saw it surpass Rach on any given day in May, just going to seventy percent of traffic.

Everyone has come to the point in this journey where they believe TikTok is here to stay. When we look at mickmac data, it's essentially held as our third most traffic channel on any given day Meta number one, Google Search number two, TikTok number three. When TikTok went dark on January nineteenth, it did take about until March first for advertisers to get back to Q four levels of traffic. By May, we saw it surpass Rach on any given day in May, just going to seventy percent of traffic.

Rachel typograph keeping it global. So good to have you found, Racio, MIKEMP.

Rachel typograph keeping it global. So good to have you found, Racio, MIKEMP.

VC firms are continuing to step up their investments in AIAI Expentsures is one of those early stage VC firms doing just that. Sean Johnson, co founder and general partner AIX menures joins us now earlier in the show one X. On the robotics side, we've been thinking a lot about scale AI data on that side, agentic AI. What they all have in common, to my mind is that the cost of getting towards this level of intelligence is coming down and down and down. How do you invest in the early stage to kind of rite that wave?

VC firms are continuing to step up their investments in AIAI Expentsures is one of those early stage VC firms doing just that. Sean Johnson, co founder and general partner AIX menures joins us now earlier in the show one X. On the robotics side, we've been thinking a lot about scale AI data on that side, agentic AI. What they all have in common, to my mind is that the cost of getting towards this level of intelligence is coming down and down and down. How do you invest in the early stage to kind of rite that wave?

Yeah, and thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, and thank you so much for having me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely, we think a lot about this new era where the cost of intelligence, just as you called out, is going to zero, and so what does that mean for the new world we're going to live in. That means that you're on the consumer side, you're going to have ready access to tutors doctors. On the enterprise side, you're going to see more and more knowledge workers be augmented and some replaced by AI. And so we invest at the early stage, you know, first check. We are looking at founders with big visions looking to change the world, that want to move very fast to bring that disruption to market. And that's how we've positioned the fur.

Absolutely, we think a lot about this new era where the cost of intelligence, just as you called out, is going to zero, and so what does that mean for the new world we're going to live in. That means that you're on the consumer side, you're going to have ready access to tutors doctors. On the enterprise side, you're going to see more and more knowledge workers be augmented and some replaced by AI. And so we invest at the early stage, you know, first check. We are looking at founders with big visions looking to change the world, that want to move very fast to bring that disruption to market. And that's how we've positioned the fur.

What's interesting is there's big visions coming from big companies. Sean, we can't help but sort of draw the attention that it's phenomenal amounts of money coming from just a few key players, whether it be Amazon, whether it be Meta. And of course, reports that open Ai might be snapping up one of your portfolio companies, Weights and Biases has already been eyed as well and bought by call Weave.

What's interesting is there's big visions coming from big companies. Sean, we can't help but sort of draw the attention that it's phenomenal amounts of money coming from just a few key players, whether it be Amazon, whether it be Meta. And of course, reports that open Ai might be snapping up one of your portfolio companies, Weights and Biases has already been eyed as well and bought by call Weave.

Is M and A going to happen for these smaller companies a lot?

Is M and A going to happen for these smaller companies a lot?

Absolutely? I mean so, I'd say two things there. The first is it makes sense for the large companies to get a lot of attention. They make a lot of revenue, they have large market caps. Venture capital is a business that's focused on small companies that start with no revenue and then have much smaller prospects in the short term, but can grow quickly and under the radar to an extent of the large companies. Now, large companies are certainly focused on building AI native teams, bringing AI throughout, refusing that sort of mindset throughout their organizations, and M and A is very important for that. And it's going to happen at all stages. It's going to happen at startups that are really just getting started. It's also going to happen at startups that are fairly far along to.

Absolutely? I mean so, I'd say two things there. The first is it makes sense for the large companies to get a lot of attention. They make a lot of revenue, they have large market caps. Venture capital is a business that's focused on small companies that start with no revenue and then have much smaller prospects in the short term, but can grow quickly and under the radar to an extent of the large companies. Now, large companies are certainly focused on building AI native teams, bringing AI throughout, refusing that sort of mindset throughout their organizations, and M and A is very important for that. And it's going to happen at all stages. It's going to happen at startups that are really just getting started. It's also going to happen at startups that are fairly far along to.

Perplexity. We just showed some of the portfolio companies on the screen that this thesis building that they're almost peerless. They get talked a lot about in the context of Google and Search, also get towards about in the context of sort of those working on the on the frontier model. Just your your thesis on them, please sure.

Perplexity. We just showed some of the portfolio companies on the screen that this thesis building that they're almost peerless. They get talked a lot about in the context of Google and Search, also get towards about in the context of sort of those working on the on the frontier model. Just your your thesis on them, please sure.

So you know, Arvind and the team have been setting their sights on building an iconic business. And we all know one thing's true in AI as it moves very fast. You know, if you never know what's going to be launched tomorrow, what's going to be launched the next day. And the amazing thing about Perplexity in the team is they have a group of some of the world's foremost practitioners executing at you know, the speed of light, if you will. And so they're all focused right now on, you know, redefining what knowledge knowledge engine looks like. But then also you're going to see Commet their new browser come out very soon, and that's going to redefine again what Argentic Solutions can bring you.

So you know, Arvind and the team have been setting their sights on building an iconic business. And we all know one thing's true in AI as it moves very fast. You know, if you never know what's going to be launched tomorrow, what's going to be launched the next day. And the amazing thing about Perplexity in the team is they have a group of some of the world's foremost practitioners executing at you know, the speed of light, if you will. And so they're all focused right now on, you know, redefining what knowledge knowledge engine looks like. But then also you're going to see Commet their new browser come out very soon, and that's going to redefine again what Argentic Solutions can bring you.

Of course, yourself were very much helming product design at startups before you came onto co found aix bench as Sean, what'sn't only one question people are coming to your founders coming to you at the moment.

Of course, yourself were very much helming product design at startups before you came onto co found aix bench as Sean, what'sn't only one question people are coming to your founders coming to you at the moment.

Is it about talent? Is it about taris what is it a app?

Is it about talent? Is it about taris what is it a app?

Yeah, that's a really good question, Caroline. Founders often talk to us about, you know, number one, how do you start, you know, connecting with early customers, early prospects. It's all about product market fit, and that can be elusive for many years into the journey. You know that is an entrepreneurs and so what we do is orient ourselves around the founder and we think a lot about how do we get to product market fit with the founder through lots of customer conversations, hiring a team, thinking about business strategy execution, but then also connecting with the next wave of venture firms will that will continue to back the founders.

Yeah, that's a really good question, Caroline. Founders often talk to us about, you know, number one, how do you start, you know, connecting with early customers, early prospects. It's all about product market fit, and that can be elusive for many years into the journey. You know that is an entrepreneurs and so what we do is orient ourselves around the founder and we think a lot about how do we get to product market fit with the founder through lots of customer conversations, hiring a team, thinking about business strategy execution, but then also connecting with the next wave of venture firms will that will continue to back the founders.

Jean Johnson of AI Expensions, we appreciate you coming on today.

Jean Johnson of AI Expensions, we appreciate you coming on today.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Now let's just talk about one time login codes. You probably have them a lot that meant to be security and verify users identity that may not actually though, be all that private. Millions of those codes sent via text pastor into madiories, making it possible for entities to actually see their content and most, Ryan Gallagher is been really needing the charge. This is an investigation, a deep one, Ryan, just showing how actually we shouldn't really be using TECHSSMS as our form of two factual authentication. That's right.

Now let's just talk about one time login codes. You probably have them a lot that meant to be security and verify users identity that may not actually though, be all that private. Millions of those codes sent via text pastor into madiories, making it possible for entities to actually see their content and most, Ryan Gallagher is been really needing the charge. This is an investigation, a deep one, Ryan, just showing how actually we shouldn't really be using TECHSSMS as our form of two factual authentication. That's right.

Yeah, we looked in depth at this issue because I think a lot of people don't realize that when you log into whether it's a banking app or whether it's Google or Meta, when you receive one of these logging codes via SMS, it isn't actually coming directly from the tech company or the platform that you're logging into is routed through intermediaries all across the world, and there's very little oversight of who actually handles those messages. So that's what we set about to do is to show look who is actually looking at these security codes and is there a potential vulnerability in terms of the people who are accessing the codes. And that's what we found that there's some concerns around some of the entities that are handling them.

Yeah, we looked in depth at this issue because I think a lot of people don't realize that when you log into whether it's a banking app or whether it's Google or Meta, when you receive one of these logging codes via SMS, it isn't actually coming directly from the tech company or the platform that you're logging into is routed through intermediaries all across the world, and there's very little oversight of who actually handles those messages. So that's what we set about to do is to show look who is actually looking at these security codes and is there a potential vulnerability in terms of the people who are accessing the codes. And that's what we found that there's some concerns around some of the entities that are handling them.

Ryan, what's the alternative then to SMS? We just have thirty seconds.

Ryan, what's the alternative then to SMS? We just have thirty seconds.

The alternative is to use, for example, an authenticator app on your phone which actually gives you the code on your phone. You don't have to rely on SMS. It doesn't go across any network. It's just on your device all the time and it stays there. So authenticator apps Google those and you'll find plenty of options.

The alternative is to use, for example, an authenticator app on your phone which actually gives you the code on your phone. You don't have to rely on SMS. It doesn't go across any network. It's just on your device all the time and it stays there. So authenticator apps Google those and you'll find plenty of options.

Ryan Allagher, it's a really thoughtful piece. We hurt you to go and read it from a business perspective, from a security perspective. Now that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech ed.

Ryan Allagher, it's a really thoughtful piece. We hurt you to go and read it from a business perspective, from a security perspective. Now that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech ed.

Yeah, astonishing way to start the week. Don't forget to recap through the podcast. You know where to find the pod. It's on the Bloomberg terminal all the Bloomberg platforms, as well as online on Apple, Spotify in iHeart all right, strong way to start the week. From San Francisco, New York City. This IS's Bloomberg Tech

Yeah, astonishing way to start the week. Don't forget to recap through the podcast. You know where to find the pod. It's on the Bloomberg terminal all the Bloomberg platforms, as well as online on Apple, Spotify in iHeart all right, strong way to start the week. From San Francisco, New York City. This IS's Bloomberg Tech