From Mahart where innovation, money and power. Collie in Silicon Vallet NBN.

From Mahart where innovation, money and power. Collie in Silicon Vallet NBN.

This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loved Love.

This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loved Love.

I med Lolo in San Francisco. Caroline hides off today this is Bloomberg Technology in my water show we have for you coming up. Sam Outman returns to open Ai. Will break down the changes at the artificial intelligence company. As Outman takes the helm after a shock Ouster, we speak to Vino Kosler, the first venture investor into open Ai. Past the world's most valuable chipmaker and Nvidia tops earnings estimates that fails to meet loftier expectations from investors. We break down the results and will take a deep dive into the world of crypto as cz pleads Gill to criminal charges for anti money laundering and US sanctions violations. All that and so much more ahead a very quick check on the kind of public market perspective of what is going on in the world. Nvidia smashes it in the fiscal third quarter, gives a very strong outlook in the fiscal fourth quarter ahead of the street consensus. The story the impact of US technology curbs taking hold. It will impact them in the fiscal fourth quarter. We will go deep and bring you the analysis on that stock and what the world of AI accelerators looks like going into next year. The other publicly traded proxy for the big story is Microsoft. Sam Altman is back at open Ai. This is largely being seen as a big cluss for Microsoft to stock up one point five percent. It's the third time this week that Microsoft has hit a fresh record high. There is some element that Microsoft gets what it wants. We will discuss that throughout the program. We have an excellent external voice coming right up. But first our top story, Sam Outman's return to open Ai as CEO. I want to bring in Sharen Gafari. Okay, let's start with the basics. Sam Ountman is back as CEO, and there are some temporary board changes. We don't know, let's be honest, but what are those changes?

I med Lolo in San Francisco. Caroline hides off today this is Bloomberg Technology in my water show we have for you coming up. Sam Outman returns to open Ai. Will break down the changes at the artificial intelligence company. As Outman takes the helm after a shock Ouster, we speak to Vino Kosler, the first venture investor into open Ai. Past the world's most valuable chipmaker and Nvidia tops earnings estimates that fails to meet loftier expectations from investors. We break down the results and will take a deep dive into the world of crypto as cz pleads Gill to criminal charges for anti money laundering and US sanctions violations. All that and so much more ahead a very quick check on the kind of public market perspective of what is going on in the world. Nvidia smashes it in the fiscal third quarter, gives a very strong outlook in the fiscal fourth quarter ahead of the street consensus. The story the impact of US technology curbs taking hold. It will impact them in the fiscal fourth quarter. We will go deep and bring you the analysis on that stock and what the world of AI accelerators looks like going into next year. The other publicly traded proxy for the big story is Microsoft. Sam Altman is back at open Ai. This is largely being seen as a big cluss for Microsoft to stock up one point five percent. It's the third time this week that Microsoft has hit a fresh record high. There is some element that Microsoft gets what it wants. We will discuss that throughout the program. We have an excellent external voice coming right up. But first our top story, Sam Outman's return to open Ai as CEO. I want to bring in Sharen Gafari. Okay, let's start with the basics. Sam Ountman is back as CEO, and there are some temporary board changes. We don't know, let's be honest, but what are those changes?

Right?

Right?

So, there are some new board members and you know, it's unclear exactly the details, but it seems like there may they may be appointing a new board long term. For now, it is going to be Larry Summers. Adam Dangelo is still on the board, who.

So, there are some new board members and you know, it's unclear exactly the details, but it seems like there may they may be appointing a new board long term. For now, it is going to be Larry Summers. Adam Dangelo is still on the board, who.

Was already a board member, who was already.

Was already a board member, who was already.

A board member.

A board member.

And then we have Brett Taylor.

And then we have Brett Taylor.

Brett Taylor, that's right, who was also a remember on the board of Twitter, right.

Brett Taylor, that's right, who was also a remember on the board of Twitter, right.

He was chairman when Twitter now known as X was sold to Elon Musk.

He was chairman when Twitter now known as X was sold to Elon Musk.

Correct, So he has experience with companies and crises, right and during leadership changes. So that's a new board we're seeing reported, right. But Tasha and Helen are out.

Correct, So he has experience with companies and crises, right and during leadership changes. So that's a new board we're seeing reported, right. But Tasha and Helen are out.

Yeah, I'm hearing that from sources as well. Yep, Tusha and Helen, who were on the board that that fired Sam Outman, excuse me, Friday are not as it stands my understanding, and I think other outlets are reported they're not on the board, correct.

Yeah, I'm hearing that from sources as well. Yep, Tusha and Helen, who were on the board that that fired Sam Outman, excuse me, Friday are not as it stands my understanding, and I think other outlets are reported they're not on the board, correct.

And remember Tasha and Helen were both keyboard members who ousted Sam Altman, right, And we're behind essentially this coup. So it makes sense that with Sam returning, part of that negotiation would involve having people who turned on him out.

And remember Tasha and Helen were both keyboard members who ousted Sam Altman, right, And we're behind essentially this coup. So it makes sense that with Sam returning, part of that negotiation would involve having people who turned on him out.

For our audience worldwide disclosure, Larry Summers is a paid contributor on Bloomberg Television, So that's that a lot of people around the world ask why the drama? Why do any of us around the world care about open AI who leads it? The answer to me seems well, open Ai is the face of AI, absolutely.

For our audience worldwide disclosure, Larry Summers is a paid contributor on Bloomberg Television, So that's that a lot of people around the world ask why the drama? Why do any of us around the world care about open AI who leads it? The answer to me seems well, open Ai is the face of AI, absolutely.

I mean, this is an industry leader. Remember that AI has been something that Silicon Valley talked about for decades, but it didn't really explode onto the market until Opening Eye came out with Chatchipt just about a year ago. Right, that was a breakthrough moment. So they are the ones setting the tone for this industry. They are the ones making AI relevant on a consumer level. They're the ones who came out with products at one hundred you know, one hundred million people are actually using So how AI go, how open Ai go, as the rest of the industry will go. And that's why I think people should care.

I mean, this is an industry leader. Remember that AI has been something that Silicon Valley talked about for decades, but it didn't really explode onto the market until Opening Eye came out with Chatchipt just about a year ago. Right, that was a breakthrough moment. So they are the ones setting the tone for this industry. They are the ones making AI relevant on a consumer level. They're the ones who came out with products at one hundred you know, one hundred million people are actually using So how AI go, how open Ai go, as the rest of the industry will go. And that's why I think people should care.

About this story.

About this story.

I think it's important to recap that this will started Friday lunchtime and we are now Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, and we actually don't have a definitive end to this story. There's a part of the resolution where there will be an independent investigation into Sam Outman why he was fired. Just explain the rest of what was announced late last night by open Ai.

I think it's important to recap that this will started Friday lunchtime and we are now Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, and we actually don't have a definitive end to this story. There's a part of the resolution where there will be an independent investigation into Sam Outman why he was fired. Just explain the rest of what was announced late last night by open Ai.

Correct, So we're going to see you know, and again, remember this is a negotiation between two sides.

Correct, So we're going to see you know, and again, remember this is a negotiation between two sides.

You have the old board who.

You have the old board who.

Was very skeptical of Sam Altman and pushed him out, and then you have Sam having this prodigal return. So on the other side, we sort of see this concession and that there will be an investigation into Sam's.

Was very skeptical of Sam Altman and pushed him out, and then you have Sam having this prodigal return. So on the other side, we sort of see this concession and that there will be an investigation into Sam's.

Conduct.

Conduct.

So far, the only allegations we've seen raised against him by the board or people close to the board are pretty vague, right, just statements around that he essentially was not candid with the board, but we don't know about exactly what was he not candid allegedly.

So far, the only allegations we've seen raised against him by the board or people close to the board are pretty vague, right, just statements around that he essentially was not candid with the board, but we don't know about exactly what was he not candid allegedly.

Now you're maybe maybe a philosophical point of difference on the existential threat of AI and I reported and you reported that one reason Emmitt Sheer has added as the CEO and interim basis is that he was an EA. He shared that stential threat.

Now you're maybe maybe a philosophical point of difference on the existential threat of AI and I reported and you reported that one reason Emmitt Sheer has added as the CEO and interim basis is that he was an EA. He shared that stential threat.

Yes, and that gets to a key detail that we should mention, which is that you know, the interim CEO, em Shear is stepping down right right, and so he's being seen in the industry now and seeing a lot of people react in texting that he he sort of is actually not as maybe bad as people thought who were pro Sam, because he's sort of giving up now and letting Sam Altman come back.

Yes, and that gets to a key detail that we should mention, which is that you know, the interim CEO, em Shear is stepping down right right, and so he's being seen in the industry now and seeing a lot of people react in texting that he he sort of is actually not as maybe bad as people thought who were pro Sam, because he's sort of giving up now and letting Sam Altman come back.

All right, Bloomberg's sharing Gafara, You've been just an incredible reporting over the last five days or so. Let's continue the conversation. There is another party to this drama, Microsoft, and we need to understand what this means for them. Michael Pacter of Webbush joins us. Now someone this covied Microsoft Clay State for a long time. Simple question, what does this mean for Microsoft?

All right, Bloomberg's sharing Gafara, You've been just an incredible reporting over the last five days or so. Let's continue the conversation. There is another party to this drama, Microsoft, and we need to understand what this means for them. Michael Pacter of Webbush joins us. Now someone this covied Microsoft Clay State for a long time. Simple question, what does this mean for Microsoft?

It's pretty huge, you know.

It's pretty huge, you know.

I think that if you think about why we haven't had deep AI solutions for the last twenty years, it's that computing power hadn't caught up. And open Ai is integrated into Microsoft Cloud. Microsoft made a huge investment in them to make sure that happens. And Microsoft Cloud is building its scale. It's scaling all of its products, all of its user interface, all of its developer and product interfaces to make sure they work with open Ai. So you need massive computing power. You know, if you were to decide to write Charles Dickens novel and The Voice of Stephen King, you need a product that's going to read every tools Dickens ever and that requires massive cloud capabilities. So Microsoft is leveraging something it's already built and integrating it into what they consider it to be the up and coming application and developers are going to be forced to use Microsoft Cloud if they want to use up in AI.

I think that if you think about why we haven't had deep AI solutions for the last twenty years, it's that computing power hadn't caught up. And open Ai is integrated into Microsoft Cloud. Microsoft made a huge investment in them to make sure that happens. And Microsoft Cloud is building its scale. It's scaling all of its products, all of its user interface, all of its developer and product interfaces to make sure they work with open Ai. So you need massive computing power. You know, if you were to decide to write Charles Dickens novel and The Voice of Stephen King, you need a product that's going to read every tools Dickens ever and that requires massive cloud capabilities. So Microsoft is leveraging something it's already built and integrating it into what they consider it to be the up and coming application and developers are going to be forced to use Microsoft Cloud if they want to use up in AI.

But Michael Pactor, this is not a Charles Dickens novel. This is real life. For what it's worth, I've lived it for the last five days. I want to go to the point of what Satya Nadella told our Emily Chang, which is, surprises are bad. And clearly, as we've reported at Bloomberg, a priority for Microsoft was to address governance changes, governance structure. Can Microsoft say with any certainty and you know you're analyzing the stock right and it's in Microsoft's leadership, but can they say with any certainty that this is the end of the story, this is the outcome that they wanted.

But Michael Pactor, this is not a Charles Dickens novel. This is real life. For what it's worth, I've lived it for the last five days. I want to go to the point of what Satya Nadella told our Emily Chang, which is, surprises are bad. And clearly, as we've reported at Bloomberg, a priority for Microsoft was to address governance changes, governance structure. Can Microsoft say with any certainty and you know you're analyzing the stock right and it's in Microsoft's leadership, but can they say with any certainty that this is the end of the story, this is the outcome that they wanted.

They meet a.

They meet a.

Lot of friends, I think by hiring Sam Mortman. And you know, you saw that the letter, you know, demanding the board resign was signed by seven hundred and fifteen of the seven hundred and fifty employees they then offered apparently offered all of those employees of job of Microsoft. So you know, would they rather have rebuilt everything starting from scratch with all the same employees or would they rather just leverage what those employees have already built. And ultimately, I think it's easier to just continue the partnership than to try to rebuild. So I think that they won either way, they win more. I think keeping things as is it will require less of an investment. Nadella managed this masterfully. I mean, he honestly was an honest broker in the whole process, and he reaffirmed his commitment to Altman and to the product and to the product team. So I think everything that they did was just flawlessly executed.

Lot of friends, I think by hiring Sam Mortman. And you know, you saw that the letter, you know, demanding the board resign was signed by seven hundred and fifteen of the seven hundred and fifty employees they then offered apparently offered all of those employees of job of Microsoft. So you know, would they rather have rebuilt everything starting from scratch with all the same employees or would they rather just leverage what those employees have already built. And ultimately, I think it's easier to just continue the partnership than to try to rebuild. So I think that they won either way, they win more. I think keeping things as is it will require less of an investment. Nadella managed this masterfully. I mean, he honestly was an honest broker in the whole process, and he reaffirmed his commitment to Altman and to the product and to the product team. So I think everything that they did was just flawlessly executed.

Michael, how closely is Microsoft's valuation tied to the investment it made in Microsoft a thesis outline on the show yesterday that the ten billion investment they put into open Ai at the beginning of the year has translated to the one trillion valuation. It's direct. Do you agree with that?

Michael, how closely is Microsoft's valuation tied to the investment it made in Microsoft a thesis outline on the show yesterday that the ten billion investment they put into open Ai at the beginning of the year has translated to the one trillion valuation. It's direct. Do you agree with that?

I look, it's really it's hard to value Microsoft based solely on a single investment. The company is worth the sum of its future cash flows, and so if the market is making a bet that Microsoft can leverage ten or thirteen billion into a trillion of ultimate profit, then the market's right. I mean, that's really what this comes down to that the market thinks that this is going to turn into let's say, one hundred billion to free cash flow a year in perpetuity. You know, at some point twenty thirty years from now. I'm not smart enough to tell you what the market is thinking. I can tell you that this is worth a lot to them.

I look, it's really it's hard to value Microsoft based solely on a single investment. The company is worth the sum of its future cash flows, and so if the market is making a bet that Microsoft can leverage ten or thirteen billion into a trillion of ultimate profit, then the market's right. I mean, that's really what this comes down to that the market thinks that this is going to turn into let's say, one hundred billion to free cash flow a year in perpetuity. You know, at some point twenty thirty years from now. I'm not smart enough to tell you what the market is thinking. I can tell you that this is worth a lot to them.

And I as to say current market cap two point eight trillion. Michael Packtive web Bits. Great to have you on this program, Thank you so much. This is an individual H one hundred GPU, or graphics processing unit in videos AI accelerator, But in reality, it's not just a chip that comes out of a plant. When we talk about the h one hundred GPUs training AI models, we're likely talking about DGXH one hundred in videos AI supercomputer. That's eight h one hundred GPUs combined, capable of thirty two quadrillion floating point operations per second, crazy computer performance. It's a server design, and this is what it looks like under the lid. It starts with an H one hundred GPU seen here in the form of an SXM module. Eight individual sxms are topped with heat six, designed to dissipate heat generated from running big AI workloads. Those are connected on a single baseboard by interconnectors, and that assembly alone weighs sixty pounds. Add CPUs and other components, and a finished DGX system weighs almost three hundred pounds. But the scale in the real world is bigger still. Some of the most power of four large language models are trained on the Nvidia DGX super Pod. That is thirty two DGX eight one hundred systems combined into what's called a scalable unit. At its absolute most mind modeling scale, DGX Superpod can be up to sixty four scalable units. That's more than sixteen thousand individual h one hundred GPUs. An AI company may use several superpods to train their LLLM. In the end, the DGX infrastructure sent out to the hyperscale cloud providers to put in their massive data centers. We bring you that video something we put out before because it was a point of discussion on the call and video reporting third quarter results beating expectations in the fiscal third quarter yesterday, giving an outlook for the fiscal fourth which was strong on any account. The Chick Company been a major beneficiary of the AI trade up more than two hundred and forty percent this year on the stock, prompting Wolf Research is Chris Casso to remain very bullish and outperformed rating and a six hundred and thirty dollars price target on that stock, and Chris Casso joins us now welcome to the program, Wolf Research, Managing Director for Semiconductors. So the stocks down, we go into this saying really high hurdle. They didn't pass the really high herd or based on the stock reaction. But what was the big takeaway for you? What did you learn about in Video's data center business.

And I as to say current market cap two point eight trillion. Michael Packtive web Bits. Great to have you on this program, Thank you so much. This is an individual H one hundred GPU, or graphics processing unit in videos AI accelerator, But in reality, it's not just a chip that comes out of a plant. When we talk about the h one hundred GPUs training AI models, we're likely talking about DGXH one hundred in videos AI supercomputer. That's eight h one hundred GPUs combined, capable of thirty two quadrillion floating point operations per second, crazy computer performance. It's a server design, and this is what it looks like under the lid. It starts with an H one hundred GPU seen here in the form of an SXM module. Eight individual sxms are topped with heat six, designed to dissipate heat generated from running big AI workloads. Those are connected on a single baseboard by interconnectors, and that assembly alone weighs sixty pounds. Add CPUs and other components, and a finished DGX system weighs almost three hundred pounds. But the scale in the real world is bigger still. Some of the most power of four large language models are trained on the Nvidia DGX super Pod. That is thirty two DGX eight one hundred systems combined into what's called a scalable unit. At its absolute most mind modeling scale, DGX Superpod can be up to sixty four scalable units. That's more than sixteen thousand individual h one hundred GPUs. An AI company may use several superpods to train their LLLM. In the end, the DGX infrastructure sent out to the hyperscale cloud providers to put in their massive data centers. We bring you that video something we put out before because it was a point of discussion on the call and video reporting third quarter results beating expectations in the fiscal third quarter yesterday, giving an outlook for the fiscal fourth which was strong on any account. The Chick Company been a major beneficiary of the AI trade up more than two hundred and forty percent this year on the stock, prompting Wolf Research is Chris Casso to remain very bullish and outperformed rating and a six hundred and thirty dollars price target on that stock, and Chris Casso joins us now welcome to the program, Wolf Research, Managing Director for Semiconductors. So the stocks down, we go into this saying really high hurdle. They didn't pass the really high herd or based on the stock reaction. But what was the big takeaway for you? What did you learn about in Video's data center business.

Well, certainly the numbers were very strong and as you said, expectations re elevated coming into the print. But the concern that we heard from investors coming into this event was not about how strong the numbers are right now. It's really about where do we go from here? And I think there's some concerns over just kind of peak revenue here in calendar twenty four, precisely because in Vidia has become such a large part of overall cloud capex, and what we think they need to do next is give people comfortable comfort that you know there's just going to be enough dollars to be able to generate in video growth. Right, what we think is of the next year, there's enough product cycle catalyst, there's new products coming out, and most importantly, the pricing of those products are substantially higher, which is driving growth.

Well, certainly the numbers were very strong and as you said, expectations re elevated coming into the print. But the concern that we heard from investors coming into this event was not about how strong the numbers are right now. It's really about where do we go from here? And I think there's some concerns over just kind of peak revenue here in calendar twenty four, precisely because in Vidia has become such a large part of overall cloud capex, and what we think they need to do next is give people comfortable comfort that you know there's just going to be enough dollars to be able to generate in video growth. Right, what we think is of the next year, there's enough product cycle catalyst, there's new products coming out, and most importantly, the pricing of those products are substantially higher, which is driving growth.

But the longer.

But the longer.

Term that I think kind of really moves to the stock well over five hundred dollars is convincing people that you know, there's enough dollars flowing into the data center to be able to commodate this growth.

Term that I think kind of really moves to the stock well over five hundred dollars is convincing people that you know, there's enough dollars flowing into the data center to be able to commodate this growth.

Okay, so let's go there. This is what Jensen Huang, the CEO of the Video said on the call. Absolutely he sees data center can grow through twenty twenty five. Several factors or reasons. They're expanding their supply quite significantly. Do you buy that and that's calendar year twenty five, by the way, not fiscal twenty five.

Okay, so let's go there. This is what Jensen Huang, the CEO of the Video said on the call. Absolutely he sees data center can grow through twenty twenty five. Several factors or reasons. They're expanding their supply quite significantly. Do you buy that and that's calendar year twenty five, by the way, not fiscal twenty five.

Well, certainly that's the case, and you know we've seen we speak to the suppliers and that, and certainly they're Any capacity is a particular type of assembly back end capacity that's very unique to Innvidia that nobody expected it to be this large at this point. It takes some time to add that capacity. That happens again. The other factor, which I think is somewhat misunderstood with regard to the stock is a large part of the growth is coming from pricing, and that's a function of more's loss slowing down. The chips themselves are more expensive. The H one hundred of the current version is almost three times as expensive as the prior version, but the benefit the Nvidia gives you is that it's more than ten times the performance, so you're.

Well, certainly that's the case, and you know we've seen we speak to the suppliers and that, and certainly they're Any capacity is a particular type of assembly back end capacity that's very unique to Innvidia that nobody expected it to be this large at this point. It takes some time to add that capacity. That happens again. The other factor, which I think is somewhat misunderstood with regard to the stock is a large part of the growth is coming from pricing, and that's a function of more's loss slowing down. The chips themselves are more expensive. The H one hundred of the current version is almost three times as expensive as the prior version, but the benefit the Nvidia gives you is that it's more than ten times the performance, so you're.

Basically more of this.

Basically more of this.

This pricing is coming to in Nvidia because they're giving you so much more performance for the same dollar.

This pricing is coming to in Nvidia because they're giving you so much more performance for the same dollar.

So the big unknown is the long term ability to sell chips into China. This is what collect Cres the CFO said in the letter to shareholders that basically there will be an impact in the fiscal for from US technology curves right, and they will ship bless the China in that quarter, but they will more than make up for it in growth or offset by strong growth in other regions. How do you price in the China risk on this stock?

So the big unknown is the long term ability to sell chips into China. This is what collect Cres the CFO said in the letter to shareholders that basically there will be an impact in the fiscal for from US technology curves right, and they will ship bless the China in that quarter, but they will more than make up for it in growth or offset by strong growth in other regions. How do you price in the China risk on this stock?

Well, for right now, for the January quarter guidance, there's very little China in there right now, so you know, to some extent that's been de risked already. We also when a company talked on the call, and our own checks have been indicating that there is a new chip that will be compliant with China that will come out in the first half of next year. You would imagine that there's some pent up demand for that chip since that you know, they can't ship it in the January quarter. The question that management doesn't know is what's going to be the reception of this chip in China. And it's going to have less performance because that's what's required to meet the new regulations, but you know, what are the Chinese going to do with it? Our view is that we think there's the Chinese customers are still going to buy it because there's really no alternative in the marketplace right now. And the problem is that there are local Chinese alternatives from from folks like Huaweih for example, but that's also a company with manufacturing restrictions on China. So they can build an ANI chap, they can design an AI chip, but they can't build it with leading edge technology because Chinese manufacturing facilities don't have access to that. So, you know, none of it is we think the Chinese are going to have to buy in video product, even if it's less performance, because that's all what's going to be.

Well, for right now, for the January quarter guidance, there's very little China in there right now, so you know, to some extent that's been de risked already. We also when a company talked on the call, and our own checks have been indicating that there is a new chip that will be compliant with China that will come out in the first half of next year. You would imagine that there's some pent up demand for that chip since that you know, they can't ship it in the January quarter. The question that management doesn't know is what's going to be the reception of this chip in China. And it's going to have less performance because that's what's required to meet the new regulations, but you know, what are the Chinese going to do with it? Our view is that we think there's the Chinese customers are still going to buy it because there's really no alternative in the marketplace right now. And the problem is that there are local Chinese alternatives from from folks like Huaweih for example, but that's also a company with manufacturing restrictions on China. So they can build an ANI chap, they can design an AI chip, but they can't build it with leading edge technology because Chinese manufacturing facilities don't have access to that. So, you know, none of it is we think the Chinese are going to have to buy in video product, even if it's less performance, because that's all what's going to be.

A beltwright Chris Chris Casso, Wolf Research Managing director covering Semis with tie on time. But we're grateful to have you on the show. Thank you know. Coming up here on b tech Binance, ceocz pleads guilty to anti money laundering and US sanctions violations of Jilak. Joe Bamputra, founder and managing partner of Future Perfect Ventures, is our guest with the take. Next. This has been bog Technology. Another story we're watching finance after its CEO, Cheng Peng Chao pleaded guilty to anti monitoring money laundering in US sanctions violations under a sweeping settlement with the US that allows the crypto exchange to continue operating. Coinbased CEO Brian Armstrong, a competitor, joined Bloomberg Tuesday to discuss.

A beltwright Chris Chris Casso, Wolf Research Managing director covering Semis with tie on time. But we're grateful to have you on the show. Thank you know. Coming up here on b tech Binance, ceocz pleads guilty to anti money laundering and US sanctions violations of Jilak. Joe Bamputra, founder and managing partner of Future Perfect Ventures, is our guest with the take. Next. This has been bog Technology. Another story we're watching finance after its CEO, Cheng Peng Chao pleaded guilty to anti monitoring money laundering in US sanctions violations under a sweeping settlement with the US that allows the crypto exchange to continue operating. Coinbased CEO Brian Armstrong, a competitor, joined Bloomberg Tuesday to discuss.

Well, I think this is really a vindication of the long term strategy that coinbase has taken to build a trusted and regulated company, going back to twenty twelve. We really decided to do that and got the licenses and got the teams in place that were necessary to run that type of company, and then every few years we did see a new company come on the scenes that didn't take that approach. Sometimes they would grow very quickly because they were able to offer products that we didn't think were legal. But inevitably they do come rashing down. You know, regulators do eventually act even if they don't act quickly, and that's what we saw here in this case today. So it's not only been I think, an opportunity for coinbase to step in, but it's also an opportunity for the industry I think to turn the page here and say that, yeah, some of the rules are clear around AMLKYIC oh fact that the issues that Finance really had you know, stepped over line on, but some areas of the law are not yet clear. We need to go get that regulatory clarity to make sure that the future of this industry is built here in America, not on offshore underregulated exchanges. And so that's what we need to go do next, and I think it'll prevent this kind of activity in the future.

Well, I think this is really a vindication of the long term strategy that coinbase has taken to build a trusted and regulated company, going back to twenty twelve. We really decided to do that and got the licenses and got the teams in place that were necessary to run that type of company, and then every few years we did see a new company come on the scenes that didn't take that approach. Sometimes they would grow very quickly because they were able to offer products that we didn't think were legal. But inevitably they do come rashing down. You know, regulators do eventually act even if they don't act quickly, and that's what we saw here in this case today. So it's not only been I think, an opportunity for coinbase to step in, but it's also an opportunity for the industry I think to turn the page here and say that, yeah, some of the rules are clear around AMLKYIC oh fact that the issues that Finance really had you know, stepped over line on, but some areas of the law are not yet clear. We need to go get that regulatory clarity to make sure that the future of this industry is built here in America, not on offshore underregulated exchanges. And so that's what we need to go do next, and I think it'll prevent this kind of activity in the future.

Well, listen, even with this crackdown that you're seeing, there were some really scathing allegations in the DJ's crackdown sanctions violations, illegal trafficking of drugs.

Well, listen, even with this crackdown that you're seeing, there were some really scathing allegations in the DJ's crackdown sanctions violations, illegal trafficking of drugs.

You know, how do you know that this is it?

You know, how do you know that this is it?

How do you know that there are not more bad actors out there that would continue to stay in crypto?

How do you know that there are not more bad actors out there that would continue to stay in crypto?

Well, I can tell you the companies that I really engage with, at least especially the ones here built in the United States, they don't get to big headlines because it's not salacious. They haven't you know, rocketed up because you know they're not following the rules. But there are dozens of really well intentioned and well funded and compliant US based crypto companies that are building this industry. I mean, you have to remember that fifty two million Americans have used crypto now about four hundred million people globally. And so while there is there are bad actors who try to use crypto, the best data we have is that that's less than one percent of the activity is for illicit purposes. By the way, the US dollar cash is about four percent illicted activity. So crypto is really not uniquely crime ridden. And the centralized actors in crypto, they need to follow these rules around transaction monitoring and kyc AML, just that like coinbase has been doing for over a decade now to make sure bad actors don't take advantage of these systems.

Well, I can tell you the companies that I really engage with, at least especially the ones here built in the United States, they don't get to big headlines because it's not salacious. They haven't you know, rocketed up because you know they're not following the rules. But there are dozens of really well intentioned and well funded and compliant US based crypto companies that are building this industry. I mean, you have to remember that fifty two million Americans have used crypto now about four hundred million people globally. And so while there is there are bad actors who try to use crypto, the best data we have is that that's less than one percent of the activity is for illicit purposes. By the way, the US dollar cash is about four percent illicted activity. So crypto is really not uniquely crime ridden. And the centralized actors in crypto, they need to follow these rules around transaction monitoring and kyc AML, just that like coinbase has been doing for over a decade now to make sure bad actors don't take advantage of these systems.

That was Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong along with Bloomberg Shnale Bassett. Let's keep the conversation going. So much has happened in the last twenty four ho job Bampuutra founder, a managing partner of Future Perfect Ventures, early stage VC firm zeroed in on blockchain, blockchain tech, CRYPTOAI, human computer interaction. Oppose the question that Shanali put to Brian Armstrong, when you're in this market and investing in this sector, how do you know that that's it? That's all there is left to come out?

That was Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong along with Bloomberg Shnale Bassett. Let's keep the conversation going. So much has happened in the last twenty four ho job Bampuutra founder, a managing partner of Future Perfect Ventures, early stage VC firm zeroed in on blockchain, blockchain tech, CRYPTOAI, human computer interaction. Oppose the question that Shanali put to Brian Armstrong, when you're in this market and investing in this sector, how do you know that that's it? That's all there is left to come out?

Well, it's good to talk to you again. At We spoke after the FTX ruling, and the way I look at this right now is the other shoe has dropped.

Well, it's good to talk to you again. At We spoke after the FTX ruling, and the way I look at this right now is the other shoe has dropped.

Now.

Now.

We can't guarantee that there's nothing else out there, but those of us in the industry have been waiting for a while to see what happened with Finance. We know that they've been under investigation for several years now. There have been a number of allegations against them. CZ has been notorious for moving the company to different jurisdictions, first China and then Japan and then Malta and so we knew something was coming, and the fact that this finally happened, these allegations were proven, they've been find cz is out, but the exchange is still running, and so I think that is an indication that regulators also understand that crypto is not going away, but they want to encourage the good actors, the.

We can't guarantee that there's nothing else out there, but those of us in the industry have been waiting for a while to see what happened with Finance. We know that they've been under investigation for several years now. There have been a number of allegations against them. CZ has been notorious for moving the company to different jurisdictions, first China and then Japan and then Malta and so we knew something was coming, and the fact that this finally happened, these allegations were proven, they've been find cz is out, but the exchange is still running, and so I think that is an indication that regulators also understand that crypto is not going away, but they want to encourage the good actors, the.

Ones that want to be compliant.

Ones that want to be compliant.

And our portfolio is full of those entrepreneurs and those companies and we welcome this and we really want to move forward.

And our portfolio is full of those entrepreneurs and those companies and we welcome this and we really want to move forward.

So Jack, we have fifteen seconds. This impact your ability to invest, yes or.

So Jack, we have fifteen seconds. This impact your ability to invest, yes or.

No, It makes it even more of an opportunity. We're leveling the playing field for those that do want to be compliant, and then we're looking forward to what happens with the ETF and more adoption of cryptois. As Ryan alluded to in this interviewing.

No, It makes it even more of an opportunity. We're leveling the playing field for those that do want to be compliant, and then we're looking forward to what happens with the ETF and more adoption of cryptois. As Ryan alluded to in this interviewing.

All right, jalak, Job and Boucher, we love having you on the show. Founder managing partner of Future Perfect Ventures. Another big news story is experimenting with AI. Last year, Walmart launched a text to shop feature, allowing people to pick what to buy, automatically, add it to their online card, and check out right from a text message Wallart wants to make its app and website just as conversational with AI. It's working on a generative AI powered search where you can ask a question similar to how you'd ask chat GPT on Walwot's app or website and bring up product suggestions, for example asking what daycore you need for a housewarming party. There's also an AI shopping Assistant in the works where customers can chat with a virtual assistant when deciding what to buy, like getting a recommendation for what kind of cell phone to buy for a ten year old. The retailer also introduced augmented reality tools last year to try on clothing virtually or see how furniture will look in their home. Right now, you can test out how a TV will look in your space. For example, you can compare different sizes or product suggestions.

All right, jalak, Job and Boucher, we love having you on the show. Founder managing partner of Future Perfect Ventures. Another big news story is experimenting with AI. Last year, Walmart launched a text to shop feature, allowing people to pick what to buy, automatically, add it to their online card, and check out right from a text message Wallart wants to make its app and website just as conversational with AI. It's working on a generative AI powered search where you can ask a question similar to how you'd ask chat GPT on Walwot's app or website and bring up product suggestions, for example asking what daycore you need for a housewarming party. There's also an AI shopping Assistant in the works where customers can chat with a virtual assistant when deciding what to buy, like getting a recommendation for what kind of cell phone to buy for a ten year old. The retailer also introduced augmented reality tools last year to try on clothing virtually or see how furniture will look in their home. Right now, you can test out how a TV will look in your space. For example, you can compare different sizes or product suggestions.

So soon Walmart will.

So soon Walmart will.

Add generative AI into the met You'll be able to ask the AI assistant how to decorate a space and get suggestions and frighting, as well as see the items in the space using the AR technology. Walmar says it's training these tools on a variety of AI models that are currently available, not one specific large language model. The generative AI tools are still in test phase, Walmart says, but will be available to customers very soon. Okay, Walmart is in the AI games. Let's get into it with Walmart US Omni Platforms and Tech Executive Vice president Triny. Then contestant Triny, welcome to the program. We outlined some of the tools that you guys have been working on over at Walmart. Of those that we outlined, what is gaining most traction? Right this is about consumer behaviors and how we shop. And I guess I'm just curious to know which tool you think is going to change the game in that respect, Dan.

Add generative AI into the met You'll be able to ask the AI assistant how to decorate a space and get suggestions and frighting, as well as see the items in the space using the AR technology. Walmar says it's training these tools on a variety of AI models that are currently available, not one specific large language model. The generative AI tools are still in test phase, Walmart says, but will be available to customers very soon. Okay, Walmart is in the AI games. Let's get into it with Walmart US Omni Platforms and Tech Executive Vice president Triny. Then contestant Triny, welcome to the program. We outlined some of the tools that you guys have been working on over at Walmart. Of those that we outlined, what is gaining most traction? Right this is about consumer behaviors and how we shop. And I guess I'm just curious to know which tool you think is going to change the game in that respect, Dan.

Said, foving me on the show at one night.

Said, foving me on the show at one night.

We are at the custom dramatic changes that the customers are main ways to discover, buy and shop goods right, be the speed up delivery, beate the way that they want to shop it in an online experience, which is very simple for them.

We are at the custom dramatic changes that the customers are main ways to discover, buy and shop goods right, be the speed up delivery, beate the way that they want to shop it in an online experience, which is very simple for them.

It has been what we have been trying to do is to make it very easy for them to do that shopping.

It has been what we have been trying to do is to make it very easy for them to do that shopping.

To your question on what is really getting traction is as we think about the GENAI decision assistant and search our queries, those are things that the customers are really starting to use more and we are seeing positive engagement so far.

To your question on what is really getting traction is as we think about the GENAI decision assistant and search our queries, those are things that the customers are really starting to use more and we are seeing positive engagement so far.

Really, given the events in the last five days, I have to ask, where does your technology come from the underlying large language model? The power is the tool.

Really, given the events in the last five days, I have to ask, where does your technology come from the underlying large language model? The power is the tool.

So at Walmart we're always invested in actual intelligence, right, or we have invested it in for transportation and other our podcasting and other optimizations that has made us what we are in our supply chain.

So at Walmart we're always invested in actual intelligence, right, or we have invested it in for transportation and other our podcasting and other optimizations that has made us what we are in our supply chain.

And in our transportation sector.

And in our transportation sector.

We have taken those learnings and then we now commented that with the GENAI tools that are available out in the public, not anyone spressit tools. We have done it with all large language models, and we are combining that with the extensive data with BI which is our Walmart catalog and other data that we have seen changing behaviors that we have seen, and that's how we have trained our AI to make it really powerful.

We have taken those learnings and then we now commented that with the GENAI tools that are available out in the public, not anyone spressit tools. We have done it with all large language models, and we are combining that with the extensive data with BI which is our Walmart catalog and other data that we have seen changing behaviors that we have seen, and that's how we have trained our AI to make it really powerful.

Is there a technology relationship with open ai and their GPT technology?

Is there a technology relationship with open ai and their GPT technology?

Now?

Now?

We try to be allla agnostic, right. What we're trying to basically get at is how do we get the language understanding correct? What pretty much every other provider we've tried it with open ai.

We try to be allla agnostic, right. What we're trying to basically get at is how do we get the language understanding correct? What pretty much every other provider we've tried it with open ai.

We use Google tools and we also use other open open source tools like Lama. What your phocused on is.

We use Google tools and we also use other open open source tools like Lama. What your phocused on is.

What we call walnot embeddings, which are our internal data that we really train the models on which stumbled with the query understanding.

What we call walnot embeddings, which are our internal data that we really train the models on which stumbled with the query understanding.

That's it very powerful Twinny.

That's it very powerful Twinny.

In the retail context, what are the biggest pitfalls and risks with bringing generator to ai technology into the kind of sales and transaction stage of your relationship with the customer.

In the retail context, what are the biggest pitfalls and risks with bringing generator to ai technology into the kind of sales and transaction stage of your relationship with the customer.

I think there are twos you can look at again, like the way that we have trying to frame it as like what is the customer really looking for? Like what are they really trying to do in a way that makes the shopping experience better? So what we've seen is the shoppers are doing multiple sessions and multiple things to really.

I think there are twos you can look at again, like the way that we have trying to frame it as like what is the customer really looking for? Like what are they really trying to do in a way that makes the shopping experience better? So what we've seen is the shoppers are doing multiple sessions and multiple things to really.

Shop multiple products.

Shop multiple products.

What we are really trying to honest, a lot of genai is explaining my problem and I can get all the multi products search at the same time. So I think that is kind of people prow of genai. What it does is it basically understands that very very much more I easily, and it's actually able to make your shopping experience much more simpler. Again, there are going to be learning out of it as we discover our people actually interact with it in a conversational way, and that is where our model training and our improvements are going to make sure that we are leaning on the right side for the customer.

What we are really trying to honest, a lot of genai is explaining my problem and I can get all the multi products search at the same time. So I think that is kind of people prow of genai. What it does is it basically understands that very very much more I easily, and it's actually able to make your shopping experience much more simpler. Again, there are going to be learning out of it as we discover our people actually interact with it in a conversational way, and that is where our model training and our improvements are going to make sure that we are leaning on the right side for the customer.

Boma US Omniplatforms Tech Executive Vice President Shriney then can tassen thank you so much for your time here on bloom Bag Technology. We have so much more head and we get back. It's the big story of the week. This is Blion Big Technology.

Boma US Omniplatforms Tech Executive Vice President Shriney then can tassen thank you so much for your time here on bloom Bag Technology. We have so much more head and we get back. It's the big story of the week. This is Blion Big Technology.

We continue to be committed to open ai, and we continue to be committed to Sam and Greg and the team in respect you where they are.

We continue to be committed to open ai, and we continue to be committed to Sam and Greg and the team in respect you where they are.

I've never seen this in my coverage attack in twenty years.

I've never seen this in my coverage attack in twenty years.

I think transparency is key. That's a lesson from this weekend.

I think transparency is key. That's a lesson from this weekend.

My number one day is none doesn't twar.

My number one day is none doesn't twar.

The capped profit model that open ai was spearheading was more of an experiment.

The capped profit model that open ai was spearheading was more of an experiment.

I haven't seen this specific structure anywhere else, and I can't imagine we ever will again.

I haven't seen this specific structure anywhere else, and I can't imagine we ever will again.

After the debacle that this all was.

After the debacle that this all was.

We definitely will want some governance changes so they you know, surprises are bad.

We definitely will want some governance changes so they you know, surprises are bad.

Just some of the many voices we've had on Bloomberg this week reacting to the open Ai saga. For more, Let's bring in the founder of Coasta Ventures, Vino Kosla, the first venture check written to open AI. Mister Coasla, good morning to you. Thank you for your time on Bloomberg Technology.

Just some of the many voices we've had on Bloomberg this week reacting to the open Ai saga. For more, Let's bring in the founder of Coasta Ventures, Vino Kosla, the first venture check written to open AI. Mister Coasla, good morning to you. Thank you for your time on Bloomberg Technology.

Great to be here on a hopefully good occasion.

Great to be here on a hopefully good occasion.

Well, I get the sense from your posts on X that for you this is a good occasion. But just start with your reaction to Sam Altman being reinstalled at open AI.

Well, I get the sense from your posts on X that for you this is a good occasion. But just start with your reaction to Sam Altman being reinstalled at open AI.

I've stated this before and I'm con stated again. I'm very happy to see Sam Beck. He's uniquely positioned to for Stuard Chip after this very important company.

I've stated this before and I'm con stated again. I'm very happy to see Sam Beck. He's uniquely positioned to for Stuard Chip after this very important company.

It's much more than just a company.

It's much more than just a company.

It is benefit b FAI to humanity you much larger way over the next few decades, and I think we restored the patch.

It is benefit b FAI to humanity you much larger way over the next few decades, and I think we restored the patch.

Mister Kosler, you outlined a thesis that when the board on Friday, or the board as it was then on Friday, fired Sam Outman, they set back artificial intelligence. Why was that the conclusion that you reached?

Mister Kosler, you outlined a thesis that when the board on Friday, or the board as it was then on Friday, fired Sam Outman, they set back artificial intelligence. Why was that the conclusion that you reached?

Mostly because Sam is uniquely qualified to shepherd this and he has a vision over the next decade or two of what AI can do. I can't imagine somebody else being able to step on those shoes easily and without a lot of risks to the mission of what Opening Eye.

Mostly because Sam is uniquely qualified to shepherd this and he has a vision over the next decade or two of what AI can do. I can't imagine somebody else being able to step on those shoes easily and without a lot of risks to the mission of what Opening Eye.

Was, Vinode. When I posted on x that you were coming on the show, there was a lot of interest. You were the first venture investor in open AI, and there was this very specific question posed for you, which is, and forgive the framing of the question, but this is what the audience asks. What happens if Sam Altman gets hit by a bus? What happens if Sam Altman is discovered to have had some wrongdoing. What happens to open AI in that scenario.

Was, Vinode. When I posted on x that you were coming on the show, there was a lot of interest. You were the first venture investor in open AI, and there was this very specific question posed for you, which is, and forgive the framing of the question, but this is what the audience asks. What happens if Sam Altman gets hit by a bus? What happens if Sam Altman is discovered to have had some wrongdoing. What happens to open AI in that scenario.

Here are other people at OPENINGI who are very qualified to do that. Greg Brockman would be among my favorites in the current Opening I team, and I think they should de risk this by adding more people to the team who can step in. But if he does get hit by a bus, I think we would have to do with Greg Brockman, who is very much after the same vision and mission Vinode.

Here are other people at OPENINGI who are very qualified to do that. Greg Brockman would be among my favorites in the current Opening I team, and I think they should de risk this by adding more people to the team who can step in. But if he does get hit by a bus, I think we would have to do with Greg Brockman, who is very much after the same vision and mission Vinode.

What we're talking about, I guess is key man risk and just as you have you know, I've been reporting on the story since Friday lunchtime, considering what's happening, But the takeaway has been that the value of open Ai appears to be the intellectual capital right of its people. And when Microsoft reacted to the news, the idea was in the kind of mutiny that was going on, that those people would simply go and join Microsoft, And I wondered what you thought about that eventuality, which to some extent now is academic, but there is still a close tie between the two.

What we're talking about, I guess is key man risk and just as you have you know, I've been reporting on the story since Friday lunchtime, considering what's happening, But the takeaway has been that the value of open Ai appears to be the intellectual capital right of its people. And when Microsoft reacted to the news, the idea was in the kind of mutiny that was going on, that those people would simply go and join Microsoft, And I wondered what you thought about that eventuality, which to some extent now is academic, but there is still a close tie between the two.

I think the close eye helps make this make progress in AI because it needs a lot of resources. And frankly, I'm very pleased that open ai is there. Google is there, and there's at least two major efforts a few other credible efforts in the AI industry, So I do think Microsoft's support. Microsoft supporting open Ai really helps it move it along, give it the resources Google has internally, and more.

I think the close eye helps make this make progress in AI because it needs a lot of resources. And frankly, I'm very pleased that open ai is there. Google is there, and there's at least two major efforts a few other credible efforts in the AI industry, So I do think Microsoft's support. Microsoft supporting open Ai really helps it move it along, give it the resources Google has internally, and more.

Competition is generally a good.

Competition is generally a good.

Thing, and more ais will make progress move faster.

Thing, and more ais will make progress move faster.

So I'm very happy with that.

So I'm very happy with that.

I won't comment on open Ai team becoming a part of Microsoft Ai. I always believe we would find a resolution. It was only a matter of time, so I was I had complete faith in this solution. In fact, my conversation with Sam around noon on Friday, and the first one announced is that I don't think it's over. It was my first comment back to Sam.

I won't comment on open Ai team becoming a part of Microsoft Ai. I always believe we would find a resolution. It was only a matter of time, so I was I had complete faith in this solution. In fact, my conversation with Sam around noon on Friday, and the first one announced is that I don't think it's over. It was my first comment back to Sam.

You didn't think it was over Friday lunchtime. It seems like an eternity ago that it was Friday lunchtime when the headlines broke. I mean it is an issue of the board in corporate governance, right, And what we know is that Brett Taylor, at least on an interim basis, joins the board along with Larry Summers. For our audience, Larry Summers is a paid contributor of Bloomberg Television. And then my understanding is Adam DeAngelo stays at the board. To your mind, as an investor in this company, you know those names in Silicon Valley? Is this addressing the corporate governance question enough?

You didn't think it was over Friday lunchtime. It seems like an eternity ago that it was Friday lunchtime when the headlines broke. I mean it is an issue of the board in corporate governance, right, And what we know is that Brett Taylor, at least on an interim basis, joins the board along with Larry Summers. For our audience, Larry Summers is a paid contributor of Bloomberg Television. And then my understanding is Adam DeAngelo stays at the board. To your mind, as an investor in this company, you know those names in Silicon Valley? Is this addressing the corporate governance question enough?

I've been on a board with Larry Summer at Square or now called Block, and I admired Larry. I think over time the board will build up to more governance. And I think three is a small board, but over time there'll be more governance and better process. I think we've learned an important lesson on governance here. And frankly, I didn't, in my remote imagination imagine that something like this could happen or the board would do this. There were some errant people on the board who misinterpreted their own religion around EA or effective altruism. I think this was really arran surprising, shocking in every way it was, but totally unexpected under almost any circumstance, and the employees of Opening Eye spoke it by offering to join Sam in whatever he did.

I've been on a board with Larry Summer at Square or now called Block, and I admired Larry. I think over time the board will build up to more governance. And I think three is a small board, but over time there'll be more governance and better process. I think we've learned an important lesson on governance here. And frankly, I didn't, in my remote imagination imagine that something like this could happen or the board would do this. There were some errant people on the board who misinterpreted their own religion around EA or effective altruism. I think this was really arran surprising, shocking in every way it was, but totally unexpected under almost any circumstance, and the employees of Opening Eye spoke it by offering to join Sam in whatever he did.

Vinod, I would love to get into the EA an X threat debate. We will in just a moment. But just you just mentioned what you see as bad actors. Do you know definitively as an investor in this company, and you said that you'd spoken to Sam Friday at midday? Do you have a clear sense on why Sam was fired in the first place.

Vinod, I would love to get into the EA an X threat debate. We will in just a moment. But just you just mentioned what you see as bad actors. Do you know definitively as an investor in this company, and you said that you'd spoken to Sam Friday at midday? Do you have a clear sense on why Sam was fired in the first place.

I have not talked to the board members who participated in that discussion. In frankly, a very little interest in talking to the two members that left, but I think it's certain behavior on their part. It was, of course, as widely reported, triggered by Ilia or having some concerns. And Ilia has since changed his mind, and I'm very admire Ilia a lot for changing his mind publicly.

I have not talked to the board members who participated in that discussion. In frankly, a very little interest in talking to the two members that left, but I think it's certain behavior on their part. It was, of course, as widely reported, triggered by Ilia or having some concerns. And Ilia has since changed his mind, and I'm very admire Ilia a lot for changing his mind publicly.

I think he deserves real kudos for that.

I think he deserves real kudos for that.

But no, I haven't talked to the board direct that made this decision without Sam without Greg, so I couldn't speak to it further.

But no, I haven't talked to the board direct that made this decision without Sam without Greg, so I couldn't speak to it further.

And to be clear, you were in the school of thought that Ilia deserves a second chance to carry on or continue with open AI. Absolutely, So let's get to the debate, the existential threat debate. You know, much of what's been discussed is a philosophical point of difference. Right, Sam as least, as I've reported, he's the products guy. Right, he leads the global negotiation with policymakers. He is the one that attracts the talent. And the board was as a Friday, largely made up of academics who seemed to have an emphasis on the existential threat that AI poses to humankind. Where do you stand on that debate of commercialization versus slowing down looking at what the risks are?

And to be clear, you were in the school of thought that Ilia deserves a second chance to carry on or continue with open AI. Absolutely, So let's get to the debate, the existential threat debate. You know, much of what's been discussed is a philosophical point of difference. Right, Sam as least, as I've reported, he's the products guy. Right, he leads the global negotiation with policymakers. He is the one that attracts the talent. And the board was as a Friday, largely made up of academics who seemed to have an emphasis on the existential threat that AI poses to humankind. Where do you stand on that debate of commercialization versus slowing down looking at what the risks are?

I published penderpiece for the Information at the Information dot Com this week on this risk issue and what I feel happened. Humanity face is the basket of risk sentient AI. Existential risk is no different than an asteroid hitting the planet either. There's risks that humanity faces. This basket of risk has to be balanced against the basket of opportunity to free humanity from the slavery of really bad hourly jobs where you do the same thing for eight hours a day reputatively for thirty years of your career, or where you can have free doctors available to everybody on the prompt planet, or near free doctors and near free tutors, and my wife's nonprofits se K twelve dot org is providing for free free tutors to everybody in conjunction with open AI on their website.

I published penderpiece for the Information at the Information dot Com this week on this risk issue and what I feel happened. Humanity face is the basket of risk sentient AI. Existential risk is no different than an asteroid hitting the planet either. There's risks that humanity faces. This basket of risk has to be balanced against the basket of opportunity to free humanity from the slavery of really bad hourly jobs where you do the same thing for eight hours a day reputatively for thirty years of your career, or where you can have free doctors available to everybody on the prompt planet, or near free doctors and near free tutors, and my wife's nonprofits se K twelve dot org is providing for free free tutors to everybody in conjunction with open AI on their website.

And in the open app.

And in the open app.

But chat GPT stored those kinds of benefits and including half the people on the planet from the kind of slavery that hourly repetitive jobs afford them, and enough GDP growth to pay for that those people is what the opportunity is. So risks have to be balanced against opportunity, and that has been fundamentally missing. There's a very very high risk of China having superior AI and interfering starting next year in our twenty twenty four election with persuasive AI that convinces voters to persuay save arguments in personal lives.

But chat GPT stored those kinds of benefits and including half the people on the planet from the kind of slavery that hourly repetitive jobs afford them, and enough GDP growth to pay for that those people is what the opportunity is. So risks have to be balanced against opportunity, and that has been fundamentally missing. There's a very very high risk of China having superior AI and interfering starting next year in our twenty twenty four election with persuasive AI that convinces voters to persuay save arguments in personal lives.

There are many many risks that have to be balanced.

There are many many risks that have to be balanced.

Not just one exist from a movie science sci fi movie Fantasy Gone Wild that says or robots takeover and destroyed the humans. That's pretty silly in the basket of risks we are actually dealing with, and there's serious risks we need to address, and in both this weekend's paper, in a blog I published on China as our principal risk in AI a few weeks ago in medium dot com. But what looking at and I think they need to be treated seriously, but not this way.

Not just one exist from a movie science sci fi movie Fantasy Gone Wild that says or robots takeover and destroyed the humans. That's pretty silly in the basket of risks we are actually dealing with, and there's serious risks we need to address, and in both this weekend's paper, in a blog I published on China as our principal risk in AI a few weeks ago in medium dot com. But what looking at and I think they need to be treated seriously, but not this way.

Veno, thank you for outlining that thesis. I want to get back to the corporate governance, the not for profit versus the for profit. Yesterday we had Josh Wolf of Lux Capital on the show. I think that's something you probably know, and he said the first thing that Sam Altman should do when he returns to open AI is take open AI public. Do an IPO. Your response to that.

Veno, thank you for outlining that thesis. I want to get back to the corporate governance, the not for profit versus the for profit. Yesterday we had Josh Wolf of Lux Capital on the show. I think that's something you probably know, and he said the first thing that Sam Altman should do when he returns to open AI is take open AI public. Do an IPO. Your response to that.

You know, I'm not going to comment on what they should do. I think open Aie is in a good position. It's a good financial position.

You know, I'm not going to comment on what they should do. I think open Aie is in a good position. It's a good financial position.

The only reason to go public would be.

The only reason to go public would be.

Would be because it needs more resources, and I don't think it needs more resources right now. What I would say the structure is not as unusual that people make it out to be. There's companies in Europe owned by nonprofits, so at least significantly owned and controlled by nonprofits, So that structure has existed in Europe before, and I think there's nothing wrong with the structure. There was something wrong with the government, and I hope or the next year we can fix that.

Would be because it needs more resources, and I don't think it needs more resources right now. What I would say the structure is not as unusual that people make it out to be. There's companies in Europe owned by nonprofits, so at least significantly owned and controlled by nonprofits, So that structure has existed in Europe before, and I think there's nothing wrong with the structure. There was something wrong with the government, and I hope or the next year we can fix that.

Mister Coastler. Finally, a lot of people are thinking about the seven hundred and seventy open AI employees. One point was made to me by sources and the valley is this pending tender presented potentially life changing amounts of money for those people, and they were willing to put it on hold or jeopardize it. In sticking with Sam, do you know what the late on the tender is and your thoughts on the staff.

Mister Coastler. Finally, a lot of people are thinking about the seven hundred and seventy open AI employees. One point was made to me by sources and the valley is this pending tender presented potentially life changing amounts of money for those people, and they were willing to put it on hold or jeopardize it. In sticking with Sam, do you know what the late on the tender is and your thoughts on the staff.

I think it's too early to comment, Kanek, but I don't know any reason the world will be any different tomorrow than what it was on Thursday evening.

I think it's too early to comment, Kanek, but I don't know any reason the world will be any different tomorrow than what it was on Thursday evening.

Okay, Coastla Ventures founder Vino Costa, I'm incredibly grateful for your time. We asked all of your investor counterparts to join us in the show. You said yes, and we're grateful for it. Thank you for your time. This is Bloomberg Technology, Okay. Also in the news talking tech first Up, North Korea is claiming a victory that it successfully put a spy satellite into orbit, moving Kim Jongen closer to his pledge to keep an eye on the US forces that are operating in the region. Officials in South Korea say they've assessed the satellite launch, but added it was still unclear if the device was operational, and Jack mar is walking back plans to sell ten million shares. Ali Barber Mah, who founded the internet company, will continue to hold onto his stake, which is worth about eight hundred and seventy million US dollars. Ali Barber shares recently faced to sell off, resulting in a twenty two billion dollar drop in market value in a single day, plus slim pickings for the Thanksgiving box office weekend is working against Disney's latest animated film Wish. In the past, Thanksgiving US ranked among the most lucrative times for movie studios, but in recent years a number of factors have conspired against that, such as the rise of streaming services and scaled back marketing due to the Hollywood strikes. It has been an incredible week in Silicon Valley. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. To those in the US, Happy Thanksgiving around the world. Don't forget to recap on the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, so many of you are listening to it. Apple's Spotify, iHeart, and of course of all the Bloomberg platforms. Again, Happy thanks thanks Giving here to all Americans in the world. Stay tuned in. This is Bloomberg Technology.

Okay, Coastla Ventures founder Vino Costa, I'm incredibly grateful for your time. We asked all of your investor counterparts to join us in the show. You said yes, and we're grateful for it. Thank you for your time. This is Bloomberg Technology, Okay. Also in the news talking tech first Up, North Korea is claiming a victory that it successfully put a spy satellite into orbit, moving Kim Jongen closer to his pledge to keep an eye on the US forces that are operating in the region. Officials in South Korea say they've assessed the satellite launch, but added it was still unclear if the device was operational, and Jack mar is walking back plans to sell ten million shares. Ali Barber Mah, who founded the internet company, will continue to hold onto his stake, which is worth about eight hundred and seventy million US dollars. Ali Barber shares recently faced to sell off, resulting in a twenty two billion dollar drop in market value in a single day, plus slim pickings for the Thanksgiving box office weekend is working against Disney's latest animated film Wish. In the past, Thanksgiving US ranked among the most lucrative times for movie studios, but in recent years a number of factors have conspired against that, such as the rise of streaming services and scaled back marketing due to the Hollywood strikes. It has been an incredible week in Silicon Valley. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. To those in the US, Happy Thanksgiving around the world. Don't forget to recap on the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, so many of you are listening to it. Apple's Spotify, iHeart, and of course of all the Bloomberg platforms. Again, Happy thanks thanks Giving here to all Americans in the world. Stay tuned in. This is Bloomberg Technology.