From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde.

From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde.

And Ed Ludlow.

And Ed Ludlow.

Now from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. Meta goes nuclear and buys nuclear power from Constellation Energy for its AI needs.

Now from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. Meta goes nuclear and buys nuclear power from Constellation Energy for its AI needs.

Plus Elon Musk selling five billion dollars in debt for his own AI startup, Xai, with Morgan Stanley shopping that debt.

Plus Elon Musk selling five billion dollars in debt for his own AI startup, Xai, with Morgan Stanley shopping that debt.

And we sit down with Drew Baglino, former Tesla executive, who's out with his new startup, Heron.

And we sit down with Drew Baglino, former Tesla executive, who's out with his new startup, Heron.

But first we check in on.

But first we check in on.

These markets and look energy dictating trade in many ways in the tech news, but there's energy in some of the benchmarks.

These markets and look energy dictating trade in many ways in the tech news, but there's energy in some of the benchmarks.

We're looking at NASDAC now up six ten percent ed.

We're looking at NASDAC now up six ten percent ed.

This is as we see the job stub must coming in, showing resilience for US economic growth, even though the OECD had pointed to some anxiety around growth and the tariff impact earlier today.

This is as we see the job stub must coming in, showing resilience for US economic growth, even though the OECD had pointed to some anxiety around growth and the tariff impact earlier today.

But you're looking under the hood. What's caught your attention?

But you're looking under the hood. What's caught your attention?

Yeah, that Meta nuclear deal. Meta shares slightly softer Constellation supplying the energy. The nuclear energy actually really muted gains relative to the big jump we saw in the pre market when the deal was announced one and twenty one megawatts over twenty years. This isn't just a sizeable deal to source nuclear energy for Meta in its data centers. It's bigger than the deal that Microsoft did with Constellation, and it's worth getting into the details on this.

Yeah, that Meta nuclear deal. Meta shares slightly softer Constellation supplying the energy. The nuclear energy actually really muted gains relative to the big jump we saw in the pre market when the deal was announced one and twenty one megawatts over twenty years. This isn't just a sizeable deal to source nuclear energy for Meta in its data centers. It's bigger than the deal that Microsoft did with Constellation, and it's worth getting into the details on this.

One character and we can we got the perfect person the Blueblegs will weighed is with us.

One character and we can we got the perfect person the Blueblegs will weighed is with us.

The context here is important.

The context here is important.

It is bigger than the Microsoft purchase that we'd seen previously, and what does it allow Meta to do in terms of yet further energy coming from a for AI from nuclear in the future too.

It is bigger than the Microsoft purchase that we'd seen previously, and what does it allow Meta to do in terms of yet further energy coming from a for AI from nuclear in the future too.

Well, the thing about nuclear is that it's clean. There's no carbon from nuclear power plants and wind and solar or clean and all these tech companies have these really ambitious carbon free goals. We're going to be in that zero by twenty thirty, thirty five whatever. In the last year, their power needs have climbed and they need so much electricity for all the SAYI power plants take a long time to build, so suddenly they're like turning back to gas and coal, and that's a threat to their green goals. So being able to get nuclear that's a real win.

Well, the thing about nuclear is that it's clean. There's no carbon from nuclear power plants and wind and solar or clean and all these tech companies have these really ambitious carbon free goals. We're going to be in that zero by twenty thirty, thirty five whatever. In the last year, their power needs have climbed and they need so much electricity for all the SAYI power plants take a long time to build, so suddenly they're like turning back to gas and coal, and that's a threat to their green goals. So being able to get nuclear that's a real win.

Well on the Constellation side, there's a lot of signals here of commitment upgrading and updating capacity, potentially building new capacity. What have you learned in your reporting about this company.

Well on the Constellation side, there's a lot of signals here of commitment upgrading and updating capacity, potentially building new capacity. What have you learned in your reporting about this company.

Yeah, so that's really exciting because we don't have any big nuclear plants under construction right now. The last one was the Vocal plant to Georgia, and they finished.

Yeah, so that's really exciting because we don't have any big nuclear plants under construction right now. The last one was the Vocal plant to Georgia, and they finished.

It was kind of a debacle.

It was kind of a debacle.

It was seven years late, it was billions over budget, and it really scared people away from wanting to do that again. Even though the rest of the country you're saying, please build us more big nuclear power plants. The only people that aren't saying that are companies like Constellation that have to write the checks for these power plants.

It was seven years late, it was billions over budget, and it really scared people away from wanting to do that again. Even though the rest of the country you're saying, please build us more big nuclear power plants. The only people that aren't saying that are companies like Constellation that have to write the checks for these power plants.

So if they can.

So if they can.

Line up a customer like Microsoft, like Meta, someone who's going to be willing to help them out on the finances, that's making them have more confidence about building a new plant. And Constellation said exactly that they have an NRC permit that gives them permission to do another reactor at the same Clinton side in Illinois. So there's not very many places that already have that paper. We're handled and so Constellation CEO Joe Dimingas told me last week that yeah, they're looking at it. They're looking at a lot of different options, but they're seriously considering it, and that's something we haven't heard in the while.

Line up a customer like Microsoft, like Meta, someone who's going to be willing to help them out on the finances, that's making them have more confidence about building a new plant. And Constellation said exactly that they have an NRC permit that gives them permission to do another reactor at the same Clinton side in Illinois. So there's not very many places that already have that paper. We're handled and so Constellation CEO Joe Dimingas told me last week that yeah, they're looking at it. They're looking at a lot of different options, but they're seriously considering it, and that's something we haven't heard in the while.

Blim bogs will wade, Thank you very much. Let's now expand the conversations, take a look at the impact of the deal for both the technology and nuculiar power industries. Joining us as Jeffrey's analyst Brent Hill and I've done the math on it right. Basically, this deal between Constellation and Meta is about thirty five percent larger in total energy terms on constant capacity basis than the Microsoft deal. But it's worth putting Microsoft as a Meta as an operator of data centers into context versus the hyperscalers. What does that math tell you about Meta and what it's doing here.

Blim bogs will wade, Thank you very much. Let's now expand the conversations, take a look at the impact of the deal for both the technology and nuculiar power industries. Joining us as Jeffrey's analyst Brent Hill and I've done the math on it right. Basically, this deal between Constellation and Meta is about thirty five percent larger in total energy terms on constant capacity basis than the Microsoft deal. But it's worth putting Microsoft as a Meta as an operator of data centers into context versus the hyperscalers. What does that math tell you about Meta and what it's doing here.

Well, Meta's playing big for the AI game.

Well, Meta's playing big for the AI game.

They're going to spend over sixty five billion dollars this year in CAPEX and they have one of the highest increases in terms of absolute dollars spent on CAPEX to fuel this AI generation. So they're a huge player along with the other hyperscalers. Amazon in microsoftware obviously going to spend more in capex, but the percent.

They're going to spend over sixty five billion dollars this year in CAPEX and they have one of the highest increases in terms of absolute dollars spent on CAPEX to fuel this AI generation. So they're a huge player along with the other hyperscalers. Amazon in microsoftware obviously going to spend more in capex, but the percent.

Increases the highest at MATA.

Increases the highest at MATA.

And I think what this deal signifies is that we're at the beginning of this aid option curve. It's going to take we're again any one if you will, have a baseball on l UH and this is going to be a multi deck guy decade transformation. I think when you look at the statistics of this transaction, right it's a twenty year deal, which puts it at the higher end of of of an energy transaction. They're pain actually more than they would for other energy. They're not building the data center near the nuclear plant. It's all virtual, so I think they're effectively as as yours your other presenter mentioned, this is an offset from a from a carbon perspective, so better for the environment. And I think they obviously want to get as much a capacity locked up as they can before others get.

And I think what this deal signifies is that we're at the beginning of this aid option curve. It's going to take we're again any one if you will, have a baseball on l UH and this is going to be a multi deck guy decade transformation. I think when you look at the statistics of this transaction, right it's a twenty year deal, which puts it at the higher end of of of an energy transaction. They're pain actually more than they would for other energy. They're not building the data center near the nuclear plant. It's all virtual, so I think they're effectively as as yours your other presenter mentioned, this is an offset from a from a carbon perspective, so better for the environment. And I think they obviously want to get as much a capacity locked up as they can before others get.

To that to get get to those uh that capacity and energy.

To that to get get to those uh that capacity and energy.

So I think, I mean, there's multiple things to read in here and look at from from our side. We've talked to our energy team and and and this again goes to the longer end and longer tail. And obviously they wanted to save this facility, so this obviously gives them a chance to to basically take a facility that maybe was going to be shut down to saving it.

So I think, I mean, there's multiple things to read in here and look at from from our side. We've talked to our energy team and and and this again goes to the longer end and longer tail. And obviously they wanted to save this facility, so this obviously gives them a chance to to basically take a facility that maybe was going to be shut down to saving it.

Brent, how much anxiety have you had about energy being the blocker here to these hyperscale is meeting at the level of demand massive.

Brent, how much anxiety have you had about energy being the blocker here to these hyperscale is meeting at the level of demand massive.

I mean, I'm a tech guy, and again I was just talking to our energy team before I got on.

I mean, I'm a tech guy, and again I was just talking to our energy team before I got on.

I mean, who would have.

I mean, who would have.

Thought that at this point we'd all be scrambling to understand energy real estate.

Thought that at this point we'd all be scrambling to understand energy real estate.

I mean, the.

I mean, the.

Biggest bottleneck to powering AI right now are the transmission lines from the energy companies to the data centers, and these you know, we've been told by many that are sometimes two or three years backlogged, so they can't even they can get things built, but they can't actually finish the last piece of this because their lead times are so long to get the equipment. So, I mean, we're again Microsoft has said this to us many times.

Biggest bottleneck to powering AI right now are the transmission lines from the energy companies to the data centers, and these you know, we've been told by many that are sometimes two or three years backlogged, so they can't even they can get things built, but they can't actually finish the last piece of this because their lead times are so long to get the equipment. So, I mean, we're again Microsoft has said this to us many times.

When they show up.

When they show up.

Every day, they're like it is like they're on fire the whole day, where they just can't like sit because there's so many mooky pieces to make this all work. For us to basically hit on one prompt bar and say, you know, ask a simple question, what hotel should I stay at in.

Every day, they're like it is like they're on fire the whole day, where they just can't like sit because there's so many mooky pieces to make this all work. For us to basically hit on one prompt bar and say, you know, ask a simple question, what hotel should I stay at in.

San Francisco based on this budget?

San Francisco based on this budget?

You know?

You know?

Or whatever question you want to ask.

Or whatever question you want to ask.

But it's like you think about how simple the questions are, but what actually has to happen in the back end is so complex, and so we're living with massive anxiety even covering the space, trying to keep up with all the.

But it's like you think about how simple the questions are, but what actually has to happen in the back end is so complex, and so we're living with massive anxiety even covering the space, trying to keep up with all the.

Data pa Isn't it funny that it feels but a few weeks ago that the anxiety was that they were overbuilding and that the supply side was just getting too much.

Data pa Isn't it funny that it feels but a few weeks ago that the anxiety was that they were overbuilding and that the supply side was just getting too much.

Is that a thing of the past.

Is that a thing of the past.

Brent, It's a thing of the past. I think here's the problem.

Brent, It's a thing of the past. I think here's the problem.

We're doing third grade math and nothing against my competitors, but all my competitors put out a data point though, Hi, a data center for Microsoft is on hold, the Wisconsin facilities not coming up live, and everyone goes, hey, i's over everyone, run for the hills, sell everything, and that's out.

We're doing third grade math and nothing against my competitors, but all my competitors put out a data point though, Hi, a data center for Microsoft is on hold, the Wisconsin facilities not coming up live, and everyone goes, hey, i's over everyone, run for the hills, sell everything, and that's out.

What's happening.

What's happening.

What's happening is we're doing this efficiently and we're going to move pieces around. But as Microsoft and others have shown, they're making money h and they're actually generating revenue growth. So it's not about just blowing money and not generating a return. It's it's it's balanced revenue growth and profitability. And I think many of the companies that we cover are signaling that they're going to be pieces that move all over and sometimes again, as I said, you can't even find the transmission lines to.

What's happening is we're doing this efficiently and we're going to move pieces around. But as Microsoft and others have shown, they're making money h and they're actually generating revenue growth. So it's not about just blowing money and not generating a return. It's it's it's balanced revenue growth and profitability. And I think many of the companies that we cover are signaling that they're going to be pieces that move all over and sometimes again, as I said, you can't even find the transmission lines to.

Get to these dcs, so they have to move a capacity to other data centers. And so it's yeah, it's a it's a giant rubics cube that is super scrambled, and I'm not very good at a rubics cubes.

Get to these dcs, so they have to move a capacity to other data centers. And so it's yeah, it's a it's a giant rubics cube that is super scrambled, and I'm not very good at a rubics cubes.

So we're trying to we're trying to figure it out.

So we're trying to we're trying to figure it out.

Brent, neither am I to be fair, But but what you just said it makes me want to go back to the twenty year commitment with this particular nuclear deal, because you can either see it as absolute conviction of the need to source energy at those levels long term because of what AI is doing, or you look at it as a hedge the need for protection to make sure you've got the energy security if you need it.

Brent, neither am I to be fair, But but what you just said it makes me want to go back to the twenty year commitment with this particular nuclear deal, because you can either see it as absolute conviction of the need to source energy at those levels long term because of what AI is doing, or you look at it as a hedge the need for protection to make sure you've got the energy security if you need it.

I mean, I think it's a combo of both.

I mean, I think it's a combo of both.

And again it's it's a carbon offset right from all the other ways that they're generating power.

And again it's it's a carbon offset right from all the other ways that they're generating power.

So there's there's.

So there's there's.

That, you know, environmental component that they have to be conscious of. So I think they check the box on that they lock up a facility that perhaps was going to go offline.

That, you know, environmental component that they have to be conscious of. So I think they check the box on that they lock up a facility that perhaps was going to go offline.

They protect this.

They protect this.

Power from perhaps others that we're going to get it in the AI industry. Uh, you know, there's kind of multiple you know, checkboxes.

Power from perhaps others that we're going to get it in the AI industry. Uh, you know, there's kind of multiple you know, checkboxes.

I think they get they get out of this transaction as we understand it. It's virtual.

I think they get they get out of this transaction as we understand it. It's virtual.

There's no like Amazon and others are are doing nuclear and putting DCS near it. As we understand that this is nothing's near it. So you know, it's a virtual deal, which again is unique. So I think there's kind of multiple threads to pull here. But again I I think what this signifies is that we are really early. It's going to have massive impacts on all of our lives across every industry, and I think they talked about this yesterday. Over the next year, Meta will be able to power full advertising AI actual campaigns, which means if you run a small business, you can say I'd like a sidewalk sale for my furniture company, and here are the pictures from the last year. I don't have to hire a videographer. I don't have to hire a creative pro whatever. You just put the pictures in. All of a sudden, it spits out, here's a sidewalk sale Thursday with the band, the wine, the cheese, and here's the discounts, and here's the video, and you do it at a fraction of the costs.

There's no like Amazon and others are are doing nuclear and putting DCS near it. As we understand that this is nothing's near it. So you know, it's a virtual deal, which again is unique. So I think there's kind of multiple threads to pull here. But again I I think what this signifies is that we are really early. It's going to have massive impacts on all of our lives across every industry, and I think they talked about this yesterday. Over the next year, Meta will be able to power full advertising AI actual campaigns, which means if you run a small business, you can say I'd like a sidewalk sale for my furniture company, and here are the pictures from the last year. I don't have to hire a videographer. I don't have to hire a creative pro whatever. You just put the pictures in. All of a sudden, it spits out, here's a sidewalk sale Thursday with the band, the wine, the cheese, and here's the discounts, and here's the video, and you do it at a fraction of the costs.

I mean, this is pretty incredible what this is going to do for small businesses.

I mean, this is pretty incredible what this is going to do for small businesses.

And metas is enabling this small business economy to define the right customers, to generate the right campaigns.

And metas is enabling this small business economy to define the right customers, to generate the right campaigns.

It's it's a completely different world. And again, I think we're all trying to have trying to.

It's it's a completely different world. And again, I think we're all trying to have trying to.

We're trying to have more wine and cheese with our generator AI. Brent, that's what we're trying to do. Jeffrey's analyst, Brent phil is so good to have you on just the scale of the ambition coming from Meta. Meanwhile, let's talk about what's happening with Morgan. Stanley is shopping a five billion dollar debt package for Elon Musk's AI company Xai.

We're trying to have more wine and cheese with our generator AI. Brent, that's what we're trying to do. Jeffrey's analyst, Brent phil is so good to have you on just the scale of the ambition coming from Meta. Meanwhile, let's talk about what's happening with Morgan. Stanley is shopping a five billion dollar debt package for Elon Musk's AI company Xai.

It's according to a source.

It's according to a source.

Now, this is the latest fundraising move by the billionaire, who is also tapping markets of fresh equity across his Business Empire and most Kurt Wagner joins us some more. Look, is he looking to the debt market to finance his own infrastructure build out?

Now, this is the latest fundraising move by the billionaire, who is also tapping markets of fresh equity across his Business Empire and most Kurt Wagner joins us some more. Look, is he looking to the debt market to finance his own infrastructure build out?

I have to imagine so, because if you remember Caroline, XAI has that huge data center in Memphis, which they call Colossus. It was just I think last month that Elon Musk was out saying that, you know, they have two hundred thousand GPUs at that site, with aims to be more than a million GPUs either there or even at a site nearby. So I mean the scale at which Elon is thinking as it comes to XAI and these data centers is very massive. Obviously, as we've talked about and you know as well as anybody, this is incredibly expensive. So it's not surprising to me that he's not only out trying to raise this money via debt, but also, as Bloomberg has reported, you know, they're looking to raise money with an equity round as well.

I have to imagine so, because if you remember Caroline, XAI has that huge data center in Memphis, which they call Colossus. It was just I think last month that Elon Musk was out saying that, you know, they have two hundred thousand GPUs at that site, with aims to be more than a million GPUs either there or even at a site nearby. So I mean the scale at which Elon is thinking as it comes to XAI and these data centers is very massive. Obviously, as we've talked about and you know as well as anybody, this is incredibly expensive. So it's not surprising to me that he's not only out trying to raise this money via debt, but also, as Bloomberg has reported, you know, they're looking to raise money with an equity round as well.

This is a lot of things happening in parallel. You have debt. What was reported yesterday by another outlet is a tender to give employees liquidity both XAI and ex employees a secondary offering and then go back to that bit Kert. What I'd heard was that as soon as that merger closed, Elon and people like Jared Birchill, his financial lieutenant, side phoning everyone and saying, if we raise some money, want to get involved. That's kind of classic Elon Inc. Play, it is, and this.

This is a lot of things happening in parallel. You have debt. What was reported yesterday by another outlet is a tender to give employees liquidity both XAI and ex employees a secondary offering and then go back to that bit Kert. What I'd heard was that as soon as that merger closed, Elon and people like Jared Birchill, his financial lieutenant, side phoning everyone and saying, if we raise some money, want to get involved. That's kind of classic Elon Inc. Play, it is, and this.

Is what Elon does, right.

Is what Elon does, right.

He spends a lot of his time over in government, sort of seemingly like ruining his reputation and watching Tesla's stock tank, and then at the same time people are lining up out the door to do business with him in all of these private endeavors. As you may right, XAI Neuralink just raised over six hundred million dollars.

He spends a lot of his time over in government, sort of seemingly like ruining his reputation and watching Tesla's stock tank, and then at the same time people are lining up out the door to do business with him in all of these private endeavors. As you may right, XAI Neuralink just raised over six hundred million dollars.

I believe they announced that yesterday.

I believe they announced that yesterday.

So you know, this is someone who, because of his track record, because of his ambitions, usually has no problem getting people to give him money. I think the question is how much and where does it go right, How useful is it for him or is he just raising money for the sake of raising money. I think in this case with the XAI thing, given what he signaled publicly about the data centers and Memphis specifically, I think we can assume a lot of this would go toward building out that project.

So you know, this is someone who, because of his track record, because of his ambitions, usually has no problem getting people to give him money. I think the question is how much and where does it go right, How useful is it for him or is he just raising money for the sake of raising money. I think in this case with the XAI thing, given what he signaled publicly about the data centers and Memphis specifically, I think we can assume a lot of this would go toward building out that project.

Bloom bes cut Wagon that thank you very much. Coming up, an energy startup founded by a former Tesler, ezech is aiming to transform transformers. We'll talk to the see Drew Baglino about the company's latest fundraise and his technology. Next, this is Bloomberg Technology. Increase the electricity demand driven by AI is running up a shortage of transformers. Startup Heron Power has set out to address that bottleneck with solid state transformers that help electricity in its sector scale faster. Its founder, Drew Baglino, is the high profile, long serving and now former Tesla exec who helps shape that company's powertrain, battery and energy product strategy. Delight to say, Drew joins us here in San Francisco.

Bloom bes cut Wagon that thank you very much. Coming up, an energy startup founded by a former Tesler, ezech is aiming to transform transformers. We'll talk to the see Drew Baglino about the company's latest fundraise and his technology. Next, this is Bloomberg Technology. Increase the electricity demand driven by AI is running up a shortage of transformers. Startup Heron Power has set out to address that bottleneck with solid state transformers that help electricity in its sector scale faster. Its founder, Drew Baglino, is the high profile, long serving and now former Tesla exec who helps shape that company's powertrain, battery and energy product strategy. Delight to say, Drew joins us here in San Francisco.

Thanks for having me ed.

Thanks for having me ed.

A lot of people were waiting to see what you would do in your life after Tesla. It is Heron and Heron Power. What is the technology and what's the goal. Yeah.

A lot of people were waiting to see what you would do in your life after Tesla. It is Heron and Heron Power. What is the technology and what's the goal. Yeah.

Heron Power's goal is to build grid scale power solutions to an accelerate and all electric future. The technology is basically leveraging the bleeding edge of power semiconductors to go directly from all the new energy technologies that are out there.

Heron Power's goal is to build grid scale power solutions to an accelerate and all electric future. The technology is basically leveraging the bleeding edge of power semiconductors to go directly from all the new energy technologies that are out there.

They're all DC.

They're all DC.

This is solar batteries, data centers, and they got to get to a grid which is ac alter current. And we're going to do that without transformers, fully with power electronics, high frequency modular power electronics that we're designing here in California.

This is solar batteries, data centers, and they got to get to a grid which is ac alter current. And we're going to do that without transformers, fully with power electronics, high frequency modular power electronics that we're designing here in California.

You're talking about the cussing age of semiconductors in that field. We often, for example, talk about silicon carbide on this show. Yeah, but what did if you just give the backstory, did you design this technology? Are you working with someone who did? We're developing it in house.

You're talking about the cussing age of semiconductors in that field. We often, for example, talk about silicon carbide on this show. Yeah, but what did if you just give the backstory, did you design this technology? Are you working with someone who did? We're developing it in house.

We're taking the best known topologies for advanced power electronics. There's a lot of great academic work actually in this space and applying them to the grid scale power electronics problem. Historically, the way it's been done is you have a low voltage converter inverter. Rectifier has lots of different names, going from somewhere around one.

We're taking the best known topologies for advanced power electronics. There's a lot of great academic work actually in this space and applying them to the grid scale power electronics problem. Historically, the way it's been done is you have a low voltage converter inverter. Rectifier has lots of different names, going from somewhere around one.

Thousand vold STC.

Thousand vold STC.

That's what batteries are as a solar is data centers will be in the future. In fact, on this show and video talked about a intervolt power electronics their data center did. Yeah, and you know you'd go through a low voltage inverter so you'd end up with AC at four eighty or six hundred volts, and then you need one of these old school you know, grain orients and electric steel oil field transformers to get up to thirty four thousand volts, And we're going to do it directly without the use of a transformer.

That's what batteries are as a solar is data centers will be in the future. In fact, on this show and video talked about a intervolt power electronics their data center did. Yeah, and you know you'd go through a low voltage inverter so you'd end up with AC at four eighty or six hundred volts, and then you need one of these old school you know, grain orients and electric steel oil field transformers to get up to thirty four thousand volts, And we're going to do it directly without the use of a transformer.

Drew, Who is it you're disrupting here at the moment? Is it old school electricity players?

Drew, Who is it you're disrupting here at the moment? Is it old school electricity players?

Is it the Schneider Electrics? Is that the zeemans? Who is it that you're really taking on here?

Is it the Schneider Electrics? Is that the zeemans? Who is it that you're really taking on here?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I think we're trying to provide a more efficient, more compact, more scalable solution. And there's actually a lot of players in this space. You've got switch gear providers, You've got lots of different transformer providers, there's a lot of honestly like no name power electronics providers and some bigger name players, and so it's a little bit of everyone, I would say, But really, when I zoom out, electricity growth is poised to triple over the next couple of decades, and that's not just due to AI but also electrication of vehicles, buildings, everything else. And so there's going to be room for many players to support this growth.

I think we're trying to provide a more efficient, more compact, more scalable solution. And there's actually a lot of players in this space. You've got switch gear providers, You've got lots of different transformer providers, there's a lot of honestly like no name power electronics providers and some bigger name players, and so it's a little bit of everyone, I would say, But really, when I zoom out, electricity growth is poised to triple over the next couple of decades, and that's not just due to AI but also electrication of vehicles, buildings, everything else. And so there's going to be room for many players to support this growth.

Drew give us that wider context because we started off the show by talking about meta looking and locking in nuclear energy for its future AI needs. How much of a bottleneck is energy? How much of a bottleneck is just the infrastructure that you're trying to rework. How much do we blame well incidents like the Spanish blackout on not modern enough infrastructure.

Drew give us that wider context because we started off the show by talking about meta looking and locking in nuclear energy for its future AI needs. How much of a bottleneck is energy? How much of a bottleneck is just the infrastructure that you're trying to rework. How much do we blame well incidents like the Spanish blackout on not modern enough infrastructure.

Yeah, the electricity sector is poised at an interesting inflection point. It's really the confluence of three major trends. First, you've got demand. For the first time in decades, there's actually robust electricity demand, and that's due to number of factors. You've got electrification of buildings, transportation, You've got AI. You actually have a lot of new manufacturing load, which is exciting to see that coming into the United States and other developed countries.

Yeah, the electricity sector is poised at an interesting inflection point. It's really the confluence of three major trends. First, you've got demand. For the first time in decades, there's actually robust electricity demand, and that's due to number of factors. You've got electrification of buildings, transportation, You've got AI. You actually have a lot of new manufacturing load, which is exciting to see that coming into the United States and other developed countries.

On the same time, you've got supply.

On the same time, you've got supply.

In fact, abundant clean renewable energy is growing at explosively. To be honest, in twenty twenty four, over five hundred gigawatts of the utility scale solar was deployed. That's over half a trillion of capital investment in solar that year alone, and that number was up thirty percent year over year. So massive increase and abundant potential supply. And then the last thing is aging infrastructure, especially in the developed economies. You know, over half of the infrastructure that's out there is over thirty years old, some of it's forty five.

In fact, abundant clean renewable energy is growing at explosively. To be honest, in twenty twenty four, over five hundred gigawatts of the utility scale solar was deployed. That's over half a trillion of capital investment in solar that year alone, and that number was up thirty percent year over year. So massive increase and abundant potential supply. And then the last thing is aging infrastructure, especially in the developed economies. You know, over half of the infrastructure that's out there is over thirty years old, some of it's forty five.

Question drew, So to interrupt, who is your customer if you want to fix the entire grid? Who are you selling to?

Question drew, So to interrupt, who is your customer if you want to fix the entire grid? Who are you selling to?

Initially we're selling to energy project developers and data centers at center builders like yeah. So actually we have later letters of intent signed with Cruso, interesting leading AI data center developer and cloud services provider. And we also have a letter of intent signed with Intersect Power, one of the largest renewable energy developers.

Initially we're selling to energy project developers and data centers at center builders like yeah. So actually we have later letters of intent signed with Cruso, interesting leading AI data center developer and cloud services provider. And we also have a letter of intent signed with Intersect Power, one of the largest renewable energy developers.

Working with Google in the US. I think they are you. I'm going to ask you how you view test energy business right in the context of Heroin you were an alumni, But do you expect to work with Tesla on the kind of storage and so the side certainly possible.

Working with Google in the US. I think they are you. I'm going to ask you how you view test energy business right in the context of Heroin you were an alumni, But do you expect to work with Tesla on the kind of storage and so the side certainly possible.

We haven't had discussions, but I look forward to having discussions in the future if it makes sense.

We haven't had discussions, but I look forward to having discussions in the future if it makes sense.

But the door wouldn't be closed for any reason.

But the door wouldn't be closed for any reason.

That I that I could see. I mean, again, I think this is a huge problem. It's a massive sector, trillions of investment over the coming years. There's opportunity for everybody. But yeah, I think Tesla Energy has done an amazing job. I mean, obviously I put a lot of my time in there over the past decade. If you go back to twenty fourteen, you know, utility scale stage storage didn't exist, I mean, residential batteries didn't exist.

That I that I could see. I mean, again, I think this is a huge problem. It's a massive sector, trillions of investment over the coming years. There's opportunity for everybody. But yeah, I think Tesla Energy has done an amazing job. I mean, obviously I put a lot of my time in there over the past decade. If you go back to twenty fourteen, you know, utility scale stage storage didn't exist, I mean, residential batteries didn't exist.

And now in.

And now in.

Twenty twenty four over fifty gigawatts of utility scale storage was deployed around the year and in capex of like forty billion dollars. That's massive, and that year itself, I think was almost a doubling of deployment. So really at the beginning of the energy storage wave, and I expect Tesla Energy to continue to grow quickly.

Twenty twenty four over fifty gigawatts of utility scale storage was deployed around the year and in capex of like forty billion dollars. That's massive, and that year itself, I think was almost a doubling of deployment. So really at the beginning of the energy storage wave, and I expect Tesla Energy to continue to grow quickly.

You were the longest serving person at Tesla, basically behind Elon for a really long time, which you just kindly share some insight in how it works at Tesla. You were one of sort of three stated executive officers. But the thing that I learned in my reporting is there's a really deep bench of talent, particularly on the energy side. At a time where everyone talks about Elon must looking elsewhere and being distracted.

You were the longest serving person at Tesla, basically behind Elon for a really long time, which you just kindly share some insight in how it works at Tesla. You were one of sort of three stated executive officers. But the thing that I learned in my reporting is there's a really deep bench of talent, particularly on the energy side. At a time where everyone talks about Elon must looking elsewhere and being distracted.

Yeah, I mean, I'm super proud of what you know, the Tesla team and myself and others were able to contribute to over the past two decades. Again, we talked about the energy business from zero to nothing, but I mean zero is something amazing. But I think we shouldn't overlook the contributions that Tesla provided to the EV space. Again, in twenty fourteen, maybe there was one hundred thousand total evs and last year of ten million. More than ten million. I mean, that's three hoors of magnitude. It's impressive and continuing to grow. And Tussel didn't just do it itself right, it encouraged many newcomers to enter the space, and I think that speaks to the capability of the team there. You know, it's a really strong team and I look forward to what they continue to do in the future. In fact, I just got a new model y and I got to say it's an incredible improvement over the model I got in twenty twenty during the head of COVID.

Yeah, I mean, I'm super proud of what you know, the Tesla team and myself and others were able to contribute to over the past two decades. Again, we talked about the energy business from zero to nothing, but I mean zero is something amazing. But I think we shouldn't overlook the contributions that Tesla provided to the EV space. Again, in twenty fourteen, maybe there was one hundred thousand total evs and last year of ten million. More than ten million. I mean, that's three hoors of magnitude. It's impressive and continuing to grow. And Tussel didn't just do it itself right, it encouraged many newcomers to enter the space, and I think that speaks to the capability of the team there. You know, it's a really strong team and I look forward to what they continue to do in the future. In fact, I just got a new model y and I got to say it's an incredible improvement over the model I got in twenty twenty during the head of COVID.

Drew Baglino, founder CEO of heron power, thank you so much for your time on Bloomberg Technology. It's time now for talking tech and first up, Jaomi's ev business is expected to turn profitable by the second half of the year. That's according to founder Lee June. It's Su seven sedan has enjoyed strong sales, even in the cutthroat market where rivals have been slashing prices. Taiwan Semi Conductor Manufacturing has blamed the traffic for delays building out its plant in Southwest Japan. Companies pushing ahead with plans to expand abroad in the face of geopolitical tensions and rising demand for Nvidio chips. C C Way CEO also reaffirm TSMC's commitment to spend another one hundred billion dollars on its Arizona plant, and Microsoft is cutting hundreds more jobs, just weeks after its largest layoff in years. A Microsoft spokesperson said the latest cuts are in addition to the six thousand announced last month.

Drew Baglino, founder CEO of heron power, thank you so much for your time on Bloomberg Technology. It's time now for talking tech and first up, Jaomi's ev business is expected to turn profitable by the second half of the year. That's according to founder Lee June. It's Su seven sedan has enjoyed strong sales, even in the cutthroat market where rivals have been slashing prices. Taiwan Semi Conductor Manufacturing has blamed the traffic for delays building out its plant in Southwest Japan. Companies pushing ahead with plans to expand abroad in the face of geopolitical tensions and rising demand for Nvidio chips. C C Way CEO also reaffirm TSMC's commitment to spend another one hundred billion dollars on its Arizona plant, and Microsoft is cutting hundreds more jobs, just weeks after its largest layoff in years. A Microsoft spokesperson said the latest cuts are in addition to the six thousand announced last month.

Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hide in New York.

Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hide in New York.

And I'm ed love Lo in San Francisco. The market's carroc.

And I'm ed love Lo in San Francisco. The market's carroc.

They are rebounding somewhat ed.

They are rebounding somewhat ed.

We had some anxiety around that OECD forecast for slower growth on the back of tariff, but now.

We had some anxiety around that OECD forecast for slower growth on the back of tariff, but now.

Well it's full steam ahead on the nasdak at.

Well it's full steam ahead on the nasdak at.

Least SUT six ten percent large thanks to Jolts.

Least SUT six ten percent large thanks to Jolts.

Job opening is looking steady.

Job opening is looking steady.

The macro picture a good news signal for today, but so too as some of the chip performances. Let's just dig into individual movers in Viniar, I mean a cool one hundred billion dollars added in market cap one day alone, We're up three point two percent. That helps to the benchmark, but so do does a new record high for Broadcom. Look, we've got their earnings coming out after the bell on Thursday, and it's looking excitedly to the AI products. And look, we just got newser one Dinabas our colleague writing about Tomahawk's six chip switches switch chips. This is about making AI accelerator is that much more efficient ed and it's leading an acceleration in the stock.

The macro picture a good news signal for today, but so too as some of the chip performances. Let's just dig into individual movers in Viniar, I mean a cool one hundred billion dollars added in market cap one day alone, We're up three point two percent. That helps to the benchmark, but so do does a new record high for Broadcom. Look, we've got their earnings coming out after the bell on Thursday, and it's looking excitedly to the AI products. And look, we just got newser one Dinabas our colleague writing about Tomahawk's six chip switches switch chips. This is about making AI accelerator is that much more efficient ed and it's leading an acceleration in the stock.

More broadly, Meta down s extents of Ascent. We've been talking all.

More broadly, Meta down s extents of Ascent. We've been talking all.

Along about the fact that they are turning their attention to nuclearive power. Their AI desires need the infrastructure, and we're seeing a build out a twenty year contract with Constellation at the moment.

Along about the fact that they are turning their attention to nuclearive power. Their AI desires need the infrastructure, and we're seeing a build out a twenty year contract with Constellation at the moment.

Let's get back to Meta.

Let's get back to Meta.

Yeah, it's our top story. Meta says it's reached a deal to purchase nuclear power capacity from Constellation Energy, all in on an effort to keep up with the soaring demands of energy to power artificial intelligence. Here were more bloombergs Riley Griffin on the Meta side the metabat Earlier in the program, we talked about the size and scope the numbers. This is a bigger energy supply deal than Microsoft did with Constellation. But I think we haven't yet answered the question why is Meta doing this.

Yeah, it's our top story. Meta says it's reached a deal to purchase nuclear power capacity from Constellation Energy, all in on an effort to keep up with the soaring demands of energy to power artificial intelligence. Here were more bloombergs Riley Griffin on the Meta side the metabat Earlier in the program, we talked about the size and scope the numbers. This is a bigger energy supply deal than Microsoft did with Constellation. But I think we haven't yet answered the question why is Meta doing this.

It's a great question, and it's worth noting here that this is Meta's largest power agreement to date. While we don't have the specific financials, they've told us that. And really this is about driving power for its data centers, for its AI ambitions as metas demand for this really surges.

It's a great question, and it's worth noting here that this is Meta's largest power agreement to date. While we don't have the specific financials, they've told us that. And really this is about driving power for its data centers, for its AI ambitions as metas demand for this really surges.

Let's talk about their ambitions, Roddy, because then now a hypiscala.

Let's talk about their ambitions, Roddy, because then now a hypiscala.

Why.

Why.

Yeah, they are hoping to dominate the AI race. They're competing not just with social media companies, which they're known for, but with the open ais and anthropics of the world and the Microsoft's. This is a fast moving race. They are quickly scaling. They've said this year that they are going to spend as much as seventy billions plus in capex, A lot of that dedicated to AI infrastructure, and this twenty year deal is about assurances.

Yeah, they are hoping to dominate the AI race. They're competing not just with social media companies, which they're known for, but with the open ais and anthropics of the world and the Microsoft's. This is a fast moving race. They are quickly scaling. They've said this year that they are going to spend as much as seventy billions plus in capex, A lot of that dedicated to AI infrastructure, and this twenty year deal is about assurances.

While energy will start coming in.

While energy will start coming in.

In twenty twenty seven, they want some mere term assurances that the grid will remain reliable, stable, and this was an effort to do that in part because Constellations plant was at risk of closure. According to Meta's head of Global Energy, we.

In twenty twenty seven, they want some mere term assurances that the grid will remain reliable, stable, and this was an effort to do that in part because Constellations plant was at risk of closure. According to Meta's head of Global Energy, we.

Want to thank you so much for bringing us the latest on all things META Whenimberg's Rydy Griffin appreciate it. Let's talk about the theme when it comes to vcs as well. Actually, in the current economic environment, we're seeing them raising funds and some to tackle this new age of energy demand and indeed climate solutions. At the same time, Energize Capital just closed its Ventures.

Want to thank you so much for bringing us the latest on all things META Whenimberg's Rydy Griffin appreciate it. Let's talk about the theme when it comes to vcs as well. Actually, in the current economic environment, we're seeing them raising funds and some to tackle this new age of energy demand and indeed climate solutions. At the same time, Energize Capital just closed its Ventures.

Fund three totally four hundred and thirty million dollars.

Fund three totally four hundred and thirty million dollars.

To scale digitally enabled climate solutions. Let's bring in John Tuff, managing partner of Energized Capital, and John speak to the theme that we were just talking of the need for AI brings through a whole other power demand picture that we're seeing a turn to nuclear. Where does startups come in?

To scale digitally enabled climate solutions. Let's bring in John Tuff, managing partner of Energized Capital, and John speak to the theme that we were just talking of the need for AI brings through a whole other power demand picture that we're seeing a turn to nuclear. Where does startups come in?

You know, that was the perfect leading for energize.

You know, that was the perfect leading for energize.

The energy demand narrative across the US right now and globally is unparallel, and it's the answer to the power.

The energy demand narrative across the US right now and globally is unparallel, and it's the answer to the power.

Where's the power come from? Isn't all the above?

Where's the power come from? Isn't all the above?

It is natural gas, it is solar, its wind, its batteries, it's all the technologies energize capital. At our HeartWare Climate Solutions investment firm, we look at investing in the intersection of software and climate, and our belief is that there are these amazing mega trends. There's data centers, there's AI, there's energy transition and mobility, there's circular economy reshoring all these areas, and generally we look to find ways to index to those mega trends in a capital light way. And the energy transition is the most exciting of them all right now, like full stop. The amount of capital going into the space, the amount of uncertainty and complexity, it will reward specialists firms, It will reward specialist investors, and that's who we are in.

It is natural gas, it is solar, its wind, its batteries, it's all the technologies energize capital. At our HeartWare Climate Solutions investment firm, we look at investing in the intersection of software and climate, and our belief is that there are these amazing mega trends. There's data centers, there's AI, there's energy transition and mobility, there's circular economy reshoring all these areas, and generally we look to find ways to index to those mega trends in a capital light way. And the energy transition is the most exciting of them all right now, like full stop. The amount of capital going into the space, the amount of uncertainty and complexity, it will reward specialists firms, It will reward specialist investors, and that's who we are in.

The space, specialist and emphasis on software because what we're talking about right not just the Constellation meta news, but Drew Maglino on earlier right with his new company Heron, we're talking scale that's in the billions and billions and billions of dollars raised, a really big fund, But you're looking at the earlier stage. How do you find something that's worthwhile when all of that scale of activity is going on.

The space, specialist and emphasis on software because what we're talking about right not just the Constellation meta news, but Drew Maglino on earlier right with his new company Heron, we're talking scale that's in the billions and billions and billions of dollars raised, a really big fund, But you're looking at the earlier stage. How do you find something that's worthwhile when all of that scale of activity is going on.

Yeah, that's a great question.

Yeah, that's a great question.

The way we've thought about it is the energy transition is today, and so there should be budget today. We're not looking for these technologies that will be ready in ten or twenty or thirty years. If you have a great solution in software, we should be able to find a customer for you today that we can diligence. And so we're actually seeing inverse of some of the public press these days, is companies are getting much bigger, faster in the energy and climate transition moment, especially in the software layer where they can scale, not just in the US where there's energy demand, but you know internationally as well, where there may be a few more markets that are more favorable to some of these new technologies.

The way we've thought about it is the energy transition is today, and so there should be budget today. We're not looking for these technologies that will be ready in ten or twenty or thirty years. If you have a great solution in software, we should be able to find a customer for you today that we can diligence. And so we're actually seeing inverse of some of the public press these days, is companies are getting much bigger, faster in the energy and climate transition moment, especially in the software layer where they can scale, not just in the US where there's energy demand, but you know internationally as well, where there may be a few more markets that are more favorable to some of these new technologies.

Where are these companies geographically.

Where are these companies geographically.

Yeah, so historically about a third of our investments have come outside the US, but we are predominantly US in terms of where we focus. The US is still the innovation hotbed for the energy transition. And what I like to say is that you know, demand requires innovation, and this is the economy of demand. This is the economy where we're looking for the next generation tools to serve these ai the hyperscalers like you mentioned, to serve the complexity of the grid and generally, if we can solve it here, those technologies do emerge in other areas around the world.

Yeah, so historically about a third of our investments have come outside the US, but we are predominantly US in terms of where we focus. The US is still the innovation hotbed for the energy transition. And what I like to say is that you know, demand requires innovation, and this is the economy of demand. This is the economy where we're looking for the next generation tools to serve these ai the hyperscalers like you mentioned, to serve the complexity of the grid and generally, if we can solve it here, those technologies do emerge in other areas around the world.

Yeah, John, just talk to us about how you're seeing around the world work, how you're seeing the startup ecosystem build out, whether you actually just really want to bring it into home where you allocate the money.

Yeah, John, just talk to us about how you're seeing around the world work, how you're seeing the startup ecosystem build out, whether you actually just really want to bring it into home where you allocate the money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, So for us, the international markets have been a source of great deals, just as we said before, but fundamentally, even when we partner with those European firms, they're looking for access to the US markets. This is the area of you know, American energy dominance has become the theme and it's real. You know, there's big budgets there, there's people in the there's firms in the technology space spending more money.

Yeah, So for us, the international markets have been a source of great deals, just as we said before, but fundamentally, even when we partner with those European firms, they're looking for access to the US markets. This is the area of you know, American energy dominance has become the theme and it's real. You know, there's big budgets there, there's people in the there's firms in the technology space spending more money.

Than utilities and capex, and so.

Than utilities and capex, and so.

What we're doing is we're trying to find these amazing companies who can serve the space, help them scale. You know, to fifty one hundred and two hundred million of revenue and beyond and ultimately be successful public public firms. One of those examples, just to hit on at home, is the firm called Nearer Energy, a great example of energized thesis. We you know, we love the concept of a complex energy grid. There's there's natural gas going on, and there's whin, there's solar and the other side of the equation. We have data centers, we have big new buildings, we have electrication, mobility, all taxing the grid. NIRA finds a way to aggregate all of that complexity and make interconnection QUEU management, you know, recommendations for the grid operators, incredibly powerful software AI based you know, a y now moment, and we're excited to back them.

What we're doing is we're trying to find these amazing companies who can serve the space, help them scale. You know, to fifty one hundred and two hundred million of revenue and beyond and ultimately be successful public public firms. One of those examples, just to hit on at home, is the firm called Nearer Energy, a great example of energized thesis. We you know, we love the concept of a complex energy grid. There's there's natural gas going on, and there's whin, there's solar and the other side of the equation. We have data centers, we have big new buildings, we have electrication, mobility, all taxing the grid. NIRA finds a way to aggregate all of that complexity and make interconnection QUEU management, you know, recommendations for the grid operators, incredibly powerful software AI based you know, a y now moment, and we're excited to back them.

What's interesting, you've been allocated as you talk already from the fund near at TIBA another one when it comes to battery software, John, But the LPs, you've actually got some energy infrastructure players, all sort of school ones.

What's interesting, you've been allocated as you talk already from the fund near at TIBA another one when it comes to battery software, John, But the LPs, you've actually got some energy infrastructure players, all sort of school ones.

Do you even ova among them giving you money? What do they want in in it?

Do you even ova among them giving you money? What do they want in in it?

Yeah?

Yeah?

So we're fortunately have this really big swath LP base about eighty percent of our LPs, our institutional pension funds and doowments o CIOs, and we're also very lucky to have this kernel of you know, traditional industrial technology firms like like gie Vernova. You know, GE's powering the future of a lot of the energy transition and so for us, they're a fantastic capital partner and insights partner to help us reach you insights into this market in the States and also globally. So it's very much a symbiotic relationship on how we can return great capital returns but also good insights.

So we're fortunately have this really big swath LP base about eighty percent of our LPs, our institutional pension funds and doowments o CIOs, and we're also very lucky to have this kernel of you know, traditional industrial technology firms like like gie Vernova. You know, GE's powering the future of a lot of the energy transition and so for us, they're a fantastic capital partner and insights partner to help us reach you insights into this market in the States and also globally. So it's very much a symbiotic relationship on how we can return great capital returns but also good insights.

John Toff, Managing partner of Energized Capital. Great to have you on the show. Thank you know. Coming up, Trump Media has raised two point four to four billion dollars to create a bitcoin treasury. We're going to discuss the rise of these types of reserves next. For the least Clean from still Mark. This is Bloomberg Technology. Trump Media, the company behind Truth Social, has raised two point four to four billion dollars to buy bitcoin for its treasury. It's one of a growing number of companies following Michael Sailor's bitcoin buying model at Strategy for More. I want to bring in Lease Colleen. She's GP and managing partner of still mark, what is the logic, particularly if you are the parent company of a social media platform.

John Toff, Managing partner of Energized Capital. Great to have you on the show. Thank you know. Coming up, Trump Media has raised two point four to four billion dollars to create a bitcoin treasury. We're going to discuss the rise of these types of reserves next. For the least Clean from still Mark. This is Bloomberg Technology. Trump Media, the company behind Truth Social, has raised two point four to four billion dollars to buy bitcoin for its treasury. It's one of a growing number of companies following Michael Sailor's bitcoin buying model at Strategy for More. I want to bring in Lease Colleen. She's GP and managing partner of still mark, what is the logic, particularly if you are the parent company of a social media platform.

In doing this, we've seen several companies enter the strategy recently to become bitcoin treasury companies bitcoin acquirers as their core focus. It's important to differentiate that from companies that have added bitcoin to the treasury for the purpose of diversification or growing the treasury, and the market is differentiating between the two. The relative size of the bitcoin treasury is important for how it's valued by the market. So for bitcoin treasury companies, what we have seen is that the market provides differentiation across a few measures. So first we see the method to acquire bitcoin being important. Is debt used? Is equity sold? And what are the terms of the debt. I've also seen that brand and trust in the management team is important, and I think as a space matures, having a bitcoin business that generates yield across market cycles will also be Valudle.

In doing this, we've seen several companies enter the strategy recently to become bitcoin treasury companies bitcoin acquirers as their core focus. It's important to differentiate that from companies that have added bitcoin to the treasury for the purpose of diversification or growing the treasury, and the market is differentiating between the two. The relative size of the bitcoin treasury is important for how it's valued by the market. So for bitcoin treasury companies, what we have seen is that the market provides differentiation across a few measures. So first we see the method to acquire bitcoin being important. Is debt used? Is equity sold? And what are the terms of the debt. I've also seen that brand and trust in the management team is important, and I think as a space matures, having a bitcoin business that generates yield across market cycles will also be Valudle.

That's interesting though, because that name is particularly volatile from its equity perspective. From the stock story, what does it tell you about bitcoin? You know that it's held on a balance sheet in treasury. That the long term view of what will happen with bitcoin.

That's interesting though, because that name is particularly volatile from its equity perspective. From the stock story, what does it tell you about bitcoin? You know that it's held on a balance sheet in treasury. That the long term view of what will happen with bitcoin.

It says that bitcoin has really matured. So with the introduction of bitcoin and the acceptance of the Bitcoin spot ETF, we saw the Wall Street investors really identify bitcoin as an asset that belongs in people's portfolios, institutional portfolios, and that is different and distinct from other crypto assets. Now, as bitcoin has matured, the bitcoin treasury strategy is doing the same. Of course, this is something but is multiple players enter We are beginning to understand how the market will value this strategy. We've seen the emergence of new metrics. In fact, and in early May, Blockstream CEO introduced a really interesting metric for evaluating bitcoin treasury strategy companies and their execution and that's pace of m nav cover And so what that means is well, taking a step back, m nav is a metric that measures companies bitcoin net asset value. It's calculated by dividing enterprise value by the company's bitcoin NAV and months to m nav cover is a measure of the pace with which a company can acquire bitcoin to justify the premium. So if the market, if the market notes that a company has grown their bitcoin per share two x over the past eighteen months, for example, as micro Strategy has that can justify to xpunium at least.

It says that bitcoin has really matured. So with the introduction of bitcoin and the acceptance of the Bitcoin spot ETF, we saw the Wall Street investors really identify bitcoin as an asset that belongs in people's portfolios, institutional portfolios, and that is different and distinct from other crypto assets. Now, as bitcoin has matured, the bitcoin treasury strategy is doing the same. Of course, this is something but is multiple players enter We are beginning to understand how the market will value this strategy. We've seen the emergence of new metrics. In fact, and in early May, Blockstream CEO introduced a really interesting metric for evaluating bitcoin treasury strategy companies and their execution and that's pace of m nav cover And so what that means is well, taking a step back, m nav is a metric that measures companies bitcoin net asset value. It's calculated by dividing enterprise value by the company's bitcoin NAV and months to m nav cover is a measure of the pace with which a company can acquire bitcoin to justify the premium. So if the market, if the market notes that a company has grown their bitcoin per share two x over the past eighteen months, for example, as micro Strategy has that can justify to xpunium at least.

What's interesting is, of course you've been in this game for a very long time, nor meaning to age. You've been like twenty thirteen, that was just five years after the white paper on bitcoin, and you come in starting studying it from an institutional perspective. The store of value we now see being played out in terms of having it on treasury, but what about actually as a decentralized finance use case as well, because that's where you've been focusing investments.

What's interesting is, of course you've been in this game for a very long time, nor meaning to age. You've been like twenty thirteen, that was just five years after the white paper on bitcoin, and you come in starting studying it from an institutional perspective. The store of value we now see being played out in terms of having it on treasury, but what about actually as a decentralized finance use case as well, because that's where you've been focusing investments.

We've seen companies in the bitcoin as a store of value and investment space be pulled into providing other services and a more full banking experience for their user base, both for retail users and for institutional clients. By that, we've seen users demand and successfully received from these companies' tools for lending, for borrowing, for yield generation, so that they can be fully banked by their bitcoin providers, the companies that they've trusted to onboard to bitcoin with. Now, what we're seeing as the technology as technologies have matured, is the introdiction of not just traditional finance tools but also DeFi tools. Those that have been tested and seeing early product market fit in crypto spaces have matured to launch on bitcoin to provide to centralize finance all the same borrowing lending, but in a manner in which is more consistent with crypto principles ematuration.

We've seen companies in the bitcoin as a store of value and investment space be pulled into providing other services and a more full banking experience for their user base, both for retail users and for institutional clients. By that, we've seen users demand and successfully received from these companies' tools for lending, for borrowing, for yield generation, so that they can be fully banked by their bitcoin providers, the companies that they've trusted to onboard to bitcoin with. Now, what we're seeing as the technology as technologies have matured, is the introdiction of not just traditional finance tools but also DeFi tools. Those that have been tested and seeing early product market fit in crypto spaces have matured to launch on bitcoin to provide to centralize finance all the same borrowing lending, but in a manner in which is more consistent with crypto principles ematuration.

Elise Colleen, founder, a managing partner at Stillmark, we appreciate you on all things bigcoin.

Elise Colleen, founder, a managing partner at Stillmark, we appreciate you on all things bigcoin.

Snowflake.

Snowflake.

It is in full summit mode this week, which means it is making a slower product and M and A announcements. One of those is his acquisition of Crunchy Data. It's a provider of trusted, open source postcress technology and products that's basically for data management. I've caught up with a Snowfake CEO, shoot A Ramaswami at the start of the summit on this news.

It is in full summit mode this week, which means it is making a slower product and M and A announcements. One of those is his acquisition of Crunchy Data. It's a provider of trusted, open source postcress technology and products that's basically for data management. I've caught up with a Snowfake CEO, shoot A Ramaswami at the start of the summit on this news.

All applications that require backing stores we call them transactional stores, and Crunchy Data is really about providing a world class postcraft offering for customers.

All applications that require backing stores we call them transactional stores, and Crunchy Data is really about providing a world class postcraft offering for customers.

Right within Snowflake.

Right within Snowflake.

If you think of creating an agent KI application, you need someplace to store those interactions to then retrieve them to answer follow on questions. That's what Country Data does. It is an enterprise grade database that's going to make it much easier for developers to create applications including agentic ones on top of snowflick.

If you think of creating an agent KI application, you need someplace to store those interactions to then retrieve them to answer follow on questions. That's what Country Data does. It is an enterprise grade database that's going to make it much easier for developers to create applications including agentic ones on top of snowflick.

What is it like doing M and A right now? How do those conversations start? How willing do you think the investor base is to see it?

What is it like doing M and A right now? How do those conversations start? How willing do you think the investor base is to see it?

I think investors are open to M and A and we are pretty thoughtful in how we do acquisitions. We don't do reckless multi billion dollar acquisitions. By bringing in products that serve a clear product need, quickly integrating them taking them to market, we're doing a really good job with acquisitions. Obviously with the Neva acquisition that I came through, that technology went into making Snowflake an AI powerhouse, and a more recent acquisition, Datavolo, is going to come out as open Flow, which is going to make it really easy for our customers to bring data both from unstructured data systems think SharePoint, think Google Drive, and so much more and make it really easy for them to bring data and cruntry data. Is next in the series of acquisitions that is going to fulfill a big open.

I think investors are open to M and A and we are pretty thoughtful in how we do acquisitions. We don't do reckless multi billion dollar acquisitions. By bringing in products that serve a clear product need, quickly integrating them taking them to market, we're doing a really good job with acquisitions. Obviously with the Neva acquisition that I came through, that technology went into making Snowflake an AI powerhouse, and a more recent acquisition, Datavolo, is going to come out as open Flow, which is going to make it really easy for our customers to bring data both from unstructured data systems think SharePoint, think Google Drive, and so much more and make it really easy for them to bring data and cruntry data. Is next in the series of acquisitions that is going to fulfill a big open.

Need that we have.

Need that we have.

We feel good about the acquisitions that we're doing and the value that help us create for both our customers and also for our investors.

We feel good about the acquisitions that we're doing and the value that help us create for both our customers and also for our investors.

MNA brings in talent too.

MNA brings in talent too.

Look, that's how you came to Snowflake and have become the ultimate CEO. I'm interested by how you are building up the talent base right now. You've been hiring a lot. What about four hundred workers of late larger sales and marketing.

Look, that's how you came to Snowflake and have become the ultimate CEO. I'm interested by how you are building up the talent base right now. You've been hiring a lot. What about four hundred workers of late larger sales and marketing.

Is that the area need to be fund.

Is that the area need to be fund.

Well.

Well.

We continue to hire pretty briskly. There are variations quarter to quarter. I wouldn't look too much into that. We feel really good about our business, so we are hiring in all the key functions in engineering and product for sure, but also in sales and marketing because we feel good about our ability to turn that into into revenue. Our company is still growing exceptionally well. We guided to twenty five percent for the year and showed no deceleration from Q four to Q one. All of that wants to make us invest in the business. We're also responsible. We practice what we preach. There are a lot of agentic AI applications inside Snowflake that is making us all me included, more efficient in terms of how we do our day to day jobs. It's that combination of being right at the center of the enterprise AI revolution combined with this willingness to use AI ourselves to make things smart efficient that make us really feel good about the future of that's gonna.

We continue to hire pretty briskly. There are variations quarter to quarter. I wouldn't look too much into that. We feel really good about our business, so we are hiring in all the key functions in engineering and product for sure, but also in sales and marketing because we feel good about our ability to turn that into into revenue. Our company is still growing exceptionally well. We guided to twenty five percent for the year and showed no deceleration from Q four to Q one. All of that wants to make us invest in the business. We're also responsible. We practice what we preach. There are a lot of agentic AI applications inside Snowflake that is making us all me included, more efficient in terms of how we do our day to day jobs. It's that combination of being right at the center of the enterprise AI revolution combined with this willingness to use AI ourselves to make things smart efficient that make us really feel good about the future of that's gonna.

Snowflake CEO Shreida Ramaswami. Let's take a look at HPE shares. This is its schedule to report second quarter results after the market close today. Morgan Stanley expects a mixed report, especially for the company's server business. The firm noted and uncertain backdrop given tariffs, but said there was a flaw under the stock given Elliott Investment Manager's stake in the company. AI story as well.

Snowflake CEO Shreida Ramaswami. Let's take a look at HPE shares. This is its schedule to report second quarter results after the market close today. Morgan Stanley expects a mixed report, especially for the company's server business. The firm noted and uncertain backdrop given tariffs, but said there was a flaw under the stock given Elliott Investment Manager's stake in the company. AI story as well.

Cara, Yeah, and another earnings one for you at CrowdStrike Releasing and he's after the market close. That Alice a pretty optimistic Redbush, for example, raising its target price ahead of the report.