From Mahard where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon Vallet NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

From Mahard where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon Vallet NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

I'm Caroline Heider Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York.

I'm Caroline Heider Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York.

And I'm Ed Ludlow live in cu Patino here at the Apple campus. Behind me the Steve Jobs Theater. This is a special Bloomberg Technology for coverage of Apple's iPhone event.

And I'm Ed Ludlow live in cu Patino here at the Apple campus. Behind me the Steve Jobs Theater. This is a special Bloomberg Technology for coverage of Apple's iPhone event.

So much to digest coming up on this program. We'll have, of course, that extended coverage on apple It's product launch as the company of course spaces internal chip delays, restrictions in China and a shifting supply chain. Will break down everything you need to know and will cover Google's biggest antitrust challenge yet that is the Department of Justice and thirty five US states through the Search Chime, accusing it of maintaining a monopoly over the search market. Or details ahead, and we'll hear from Endeavor president as Mark Shapiro. As the company completes it's takeover a WWE and combines it with UFC to create a newly publicly traded fighting giant will talk for streaming implications all that and so much more ahead. But first and foremost, we've got to be discussing what's happening in the world of Apple. And this really is an exciting time in terms of the fifteen launch. I almost feel we know exactly what to anticipate. We always know. Our reporting is so strong here at Bloomberg, but there is a lot of headwinds facing Apple. Do you think that we can see the tailwinds today?

So much to digest coming up on this program. We'll have, of course, that extended coverage on apple It's product launch as the company of course spaces internal chip delays, restrictions in China and a shifting supply chain. Will break down everything you need to know and will cover Google's biggest antitrust challenge yet that is the Department of Justice and thirty five US states through the Search Chime, accusing it of maintaining a monopoly over the search market. Or details ahead, and we'll hear from Endeavor president as Mark Shapiro. As the company completes it's takeover a WWE and combines it with UFC to create a newly publicly traded fighting giant will talk for streaming implications all that and so much more ahead. But first and foremost, we've got to be discussing what's happening in the world of Apple. And this really is an exciting time in terms of the fifteen launch. I almost feel we know exactly what to anticipate. We always know. Our reporting is so strong here at Bloomberg, but there is a lot of headwinds facing Apple. Do you think that we can see the tailwinds today?

Yeah, And it's why the iPhone is everything. That's kind of the key of what we're expecting. Four variants of the next generation iPhone fifteen, a base model, an iPhone fifteen plus, and then a Pro and Pro Max. And as you know, Caro, Apple kind of reserves its biggest technological updates for those Pro lines. Higher price point it raises the average selling price. Is it enough to convince the consumer to upgrade? We know there are tens, if not hundreds of millions of older generation iPhone handsets out there. Are they going to be able to boost volumes or are they going to rely on higher prices?

Yeah, And it's why the iPhone is everything. That's kind of the key of what we're expecting. Four variants of the next generation iPhone fifteen, a base model, an iPhone fifteen plus, and then a Pro and Pro Max. And as you know, Caro, Apple kind of reserves its biggest technological updates for those Pro lines. Higher price point it raises the average selling price. Is it enough to convince the consumer to upgrade? We know there are tens, if not hundreds of millions of older generation iPhone handsets out there. Are they going to be able to boost volumes or are they going to rely on higher prices?

That's going to be a key question.

That's going to be a key question.

And now are we going to see revenues start to increase again? This is of course the key to two hundred billion dollar juggernaut of Apple's revenue, that is the phone. Let's dig into it always, So please to welcome Mark Gammon to the show, of course, who has already kind of braced us for what to expect throughout the announcements. But is it all about getting them to pay a higher price point? Mark?

And now are we going to see revenues start to increase again? This is of course the key to two hundred billion dollar juggernaut of Apple's revenue, that is the phone. Let's dig into it always, So please to welcome Mark Gammon to the show, of course, who has already kind of braced us for what to expect throughout the announcements. But is it all about getting them to pay a higher price point? Mark?

Certainly, Apple is pushing, like Ed said, it's latest features and advancements to the higher end models. Right, They're going to be differentiating the Pro models from the non Pro models more than ever. Right, And on top of that, the highest and the most expensive Pro model, the iPhone fifteen Pro Max, is going to have additional features like a periscope camera, which essentially means it can have a much wider range of zoom using hardware, so being able to zoom in double the amount you could on the regular fifteen Pro without degrading the quality of the image. So certainly they're pushing people to the top with the better cameras, titanium and faster performance.

Certainly, Apple is pushing, like Ed said, it's latest features and advancements to the higher end models. Right, They're going to be differentiating the Pro models from the non Pro models more than ever. Right, And on top of that, the highest and the most expensive Pro model, the iPhone fifteen Pro Max, is going to have additional features like a periscope camera, which essentially means it can have a much wider range of zoom using hardware, so being able to zoom in double the amount you could on the regular fifteen Pro without degrading the quality of the image. So certainly they're pushing people to the top with the better cameras, titanium and faster performance.

You know, Mark, there's a big emphasis on the higher end processor for the Pro and Promax. Right a seventeen You've reported about Apple's latest generation processor additional memory, So there's a compute factor there, but there's also a battery life factor. And then, of course, not of Apple's own volition, a European Union mandate for USBC taughts us about what you've reported on those two items.

You know, Mark, there's a big emphasis on the higher end processor for the Pro and Promax. Right a seventeen You've reported about Apple's latest generation processor additional memory, So there's a compute factor there, but there's also a battery life factor. And then, of course, not of Apple's own volition, a European Union mandate for USBC taughts us about what you've reported on those two items.

Yeah, the three and nanimeter chip, this is going to be Apple's first three nanimeter component. This is a chip manufactured by TSMC, and what three nanimeter allows is better battery life and better efficiency. So you'll see some battery life upgrades on the fifteen Pro and fifteen Promacs.

Yeah, the three and nanimeter chip, this is going to be Apple's first three nanimeter component. This is a chip manufactured by TSMC, and what three nanimeter allows is better battery life and better efficiency. So you'll see some battery life upgrades on the fifteen Pro and fifteen Promacs.

Because of that. And of course back.

Because of that. And of course back.

To that differentiation point, the higher end phones will get that A seventeen, whereas the lower end, the fifteen and fifteen plus the two entry level phones, those will both get the A sixteen from the fourteen Pro and fourteen Promacs from last year. And in terms of USBC, all four models will get USBC instead of Lightning. But there is a little bit of a trick here because the Pro models they're going to get USBC with faster data transfer speeds, which would be good if you take very high resolution video on the Pro models to connect them to your computer and transfer them over a cable, you'll be able to do that at a much faster rate with some specialized thunderbalk cables than you would on the regular models. So certainly the talk of today will be how the pro models are going to have extra bells and whistles to really bring people up to the higher end models.

To that differentiation point, the higher end phones will get that A seventeen, whereas the lower end, the fifteen and fifteen plus the two entry level phones, those will both get the A sixteen from the fourteen Pro and fourteen Promacs from last year. And in terms of USBC, all four models will get USBC instead of Lightning. But there is a little bit of a trick here because the Pro models they're going to get USBC with faster data transfer speeds, which would be good if you take very high resolution video on the Pro models to connect them to your computer and transfer them over a cable, you'll be able to do that at a much faster rate with some specialized thunderbalk cables than you would on the regular models. So certainly the talk of today will be how the pro models are going to have extra bells and whistles to really bring people up to the higher end models.

Great, so all those lightning cables I've been accruing since twenty twelve are now completely redundant, thank you to Bloomberg's Mark Gum. And We're just getting started here in Koopertino, and I'm delighted to bring in creative strategies principle analysts. Carolina Milianacy. We will get to the USBC debate. I think the big discussion we've had on Bloomberg technology has been there is an unknown number of older generation iPhone out there, if it's the tens of millions or hundreds of millions we've reported, and what we think is coming is the technology upgrade enough to spur this genuine upgrade cycle.

Great, so all those lightning cables I've been accruing since twenty twelve are now completely redundant, thank you to Bloomberg's Mark Gum. And We're just getting started here in Koopertino, and I'm delighted to bring in creative strategies principle analysts. Carolina Milianacy. We will get to the USBC debate. I think the big discussion we've had on Bloomberg technology has been there is an unknown number of older generation iPhone out there, if it's the tens of millions or hundreds of millions we've reported, and what we think is coming is the technology upgrade enough to spur this genuine upgrade cycle.

I think it is if you know all the rumors play out. You know Mark was talking about moving people to the higher price point. I think there's two markets, right, you have the early adopters and the pro users that can do that, but then you have a huge base of people that have devices that are four or five years old that need to continue to go on that path. So creating more separation between the pro model and the non pro model is critical to get those people to move up.

I think it is if you know all the rumors play out. You know Mark was talking about moving people to the higher price point. I think there's two markets, right, you have the early adopters and the pro users that can do that, but then you have a huge base of people that have devices that are four or five years old that need to continue to go on that path. So creating more separation between the pro model and the non pro model is critical to get those people to move up.

As you know, I focus a lot on the technology from a sort of processor compute standpoint that actually switching to titanium sides or edges is interesting. Why would that make a difference in the smartphone market?

As you know, I focus a lot on the technology from a sort of processor compute standpoint that actually switching to titanium sides or edges is interesting. Why would that make a difference in the smartphone market?

I can tell you that from just from a consumer perspective, getting into a store and holding one of those new phones is the most tangible expression of the phone being different. Right, weight on something that you use so much during the day makes a difference. It might also invite some people to go to the larger PHM factor because the weight is no longer the factor that is deciding whether or not you want to carry something that heavy. There's obviously sustainability story as well linked to titanium, and it'd be interesting to see how far Apple is going to push by a sustainability story today.

I can tell you that from just from a consumer perspective, getting into a store and holding one of those new phones is the most tangible expression of the phone being different. Right, weight on something that you use so much during the day makes a difference. It might also invite some people to go to the larger PHM factor because the weight is no longer the factor that is deciding whether or not you want to carry something that heavy. There's obviously sustainability story as well linked to titanium, and it'd be interesting to see how far Apple is going to push by a sustainability story today.

Us b C did Apple wait too long?

Us b C did Apple wait too long?

European Union mandate is the end of twenty twenty four deadline.

European Union mandate is the end of twenty twenty four deadline.

They're going now what impact will that have.

They're going now what impact will that have.

It makes it easier for people that are within the ecosystem. You know, it's one less cable. But as Mark was talking about, for the pro version, if it does do the higher data is nicer for creators rights, actually useful. It's not just about doing the mandate for for the requirement. It'd be interesting to see how they spin the story because we all been waiting, you know, and from a portfolio perspective, you know, the iPad has it, but the phone does it, and so you start to see, you know, discrepancies within the portfolio. Now we have one cable across the board. I'm sure that the AirPods will also get a new KSE with the USBC.

It makes it easier for people that are within the ecosystem. You know, it's one less cable. But as Mark was talking about, for the pro version, if it does do the higher data is nicer for creators rights, actually useful. It's not just about doing the mandate for for the requirement. It'd be interesting to see how they spin the story because we all been waiting, you know, and from a portfolio perspective, you know, the iPad has it, but the phone does it, and so you start to see, you know, discrepancies within the portfolio. Now we have one cable across the board. I'm sure that the AirPods will also get a new KSE with the USBC.

I am all in on one cable. Carolina, tell me a little bit about how they're going to spin the green element. You just took us there a little bit, the sustainability narrative. Feel as though that's going to creep into the watches as well.

I am all in on one cable. Carolina, tell me a little bit about how they're going to spin the green element. You just took us there a little bit, the sustainability narrative. Feel as though that's going to creep into the watches as well.

It seems so with material and there's been a lot of speculation about abandoning lever, both with their own bends and with the relationship with Hermes, and I think that if you look at Apple's DNA around sustainability. They always had a very strong story. They have a goal to be carbon neutral by twenty thirty across their supply chain and products. They already carbon neutral for their own operations already today, and so it'd be interesting to see whether the material is one aspect of it. We saw the badges today are all recycled. There's no plastic in today's events badges. So it seems like sustainability is definitely going to be a story.

It seems so with material and there's been a lot of speculation about abandoning lever, both with their own bends and with the relationship with Hermes, and I think that if you look at Apple's DNA around sustainability. They always had a very strong story. They have a goal to be carbon neutral by twenty thirty across their supply chain and products. They already carbon neutral for their own operations already today, and so it'd be interesting to see whether the material is one aspect of it. We saw the badges today are all recycled. There's no plastic in today's events badges. So it seems like sustainability is definitely going to be a story.

What about the watch in general? How much are they continuing to want to innovate on that particular product. How important is it to them.

What about the watch in general? How much are they continuing to want to innovate on that particular product. How important is it to them.

It's a very important product to them, just because health and fitness is an important story to tell, and they have made a huge impact. It's been interesting to see how much the ultra version of the watch as taking consumers by storm. It's not just for the fitness when you know, we were talking about this actually on the program program and said, there's a lot of wanna bees health and fitness people that will buy this watch. So for Apple is another way too lot customers in and I know that they hate that term, but it's true. You know, if you have your phone and your watch is harder for you to move away and move to a different brand and ecosystem.

It's a very important product to them, just because health and fitness is an important story to tell, and they have made a huge impact. It's been interesting to see how much the ultra version of the watch as taking consumers by storm. It's not just for the fitness when you know, we were talking about this actually on the program program and said, there's a lot of wanna bees health and fitness people that will buy this watch. So for Apple is another way too lot customers in and I know that they hate that term, but it's true. You know, if you have your phone and your watch is harder for you to move away and move to a different brand and ecosystem.

Karlina, the company story for Apple has really been China. In the June quarter, it was recording greater China eight percent growth when there was overall decline. How important is this iPhone fifteen for that market? Does it get traction with the consumer in China?

Karlina, the company story for Apple has really been China. In the June quarter, it was recording greater China eight percent growth when there was overall decline. How important is this iPhone fifteen for that market? Does it get traction with the consumer in China?

It's very important.

It's very important.

And I think the story about the processor for the Maxis and the pro is important for China. China has always been a market that is more about real technology and so processors or something, but they look at very closely versus design and material. So I think that separating that pro line with a different processor, with a dedicated processor that can give you more is going to be really critical for China.

And I think the story about the processor for the Maxis and the pro is important for China. China has always been a market that is more about real technology and so processors or something, but they look at very closely versus design and material. So I think that separating that pro line with a different processor, with a dedicated processor that can give you more is going to be really critical for China.

Caroline and middle Lesi create a strategies principle analysts, This is a strong start, Carriac to US coverage for Bloomberg Technology to Apple's iPhone events.

Caroline and middle Lesi create a strategies principle analysts, This is a strong start, Carriac to US coverage for Bloomberg Technology to Apple's iPhone events.

Let's talk about Google facing its biggest antitrust challenging yet over accusations it's maintained a monopoly over the search market via of course, those agreements with tech rivals. The company facing a pair of lawsuits by the US Justice Department and state attorneys general that could result in perhaps even the breakup of the twenty five year old search chant for more. That's bringing Jennifer and Wee Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst who's been listening in already some opening statements. Does this feel reminiscent to the nineties?

Let's talk about Google facing its biggest antitrust challenging yet over accusations it's maintained a monopoly over the search market via of course, those agreements with tech rivals. The company facing a pair of lawsuits by the US Justice Department and state attorneys general that could result in perhaps even the breakup of the twenty five year old search chant for more. That's bringing Jennifer and Wee Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst who's been listening in already some opening statements. Does this feel reminiscent to the nineties?

You know?

You know?

It does?

It does?

It really does.

It really does.

And there's so many parallels being brought to the big, huge case against Microsoft that I think we all know about. And the thing is it is similar. You know, there are allegations, you know, Microsoft was entering into agreements to try to block out Netscape and Java, and the allegation here is that Google's entering agreements to try to block out Bright like being in duc, dot Go other companies that people would use to search the Internet. Right, So there are a lot of similarities there, but there are also some very big differences because of what these tech companies have learned from the Microsoft case.

And there's so many parallels being brought to the big, huge case against Microsoft that I think we all know about. And the thing is it is similar. You know, there are allegations, you know, Microsoft was entering into agreements to try to block out Netscape and Java, and the allegation here is that Google's entering agreements to try to block out Bright like being in duc, dot Go other companies that people would use to search the Internet. Right, So there are a lot of similarities there, but there are also some very big differences because of what these tech companies have learned from the Microsoft case.

And to that end, the argument's going to be coming from Alphabet, the parent company of Google. Are they in any way going to diverge from basically what we learned to the nineteenth Yeah? I think so.

And to that end, the argument's going to be coming from Alphabet, the parent company of Google. Are they in any way going to diverge from basically what we learned to the nineteenth Yeah? I think so.

Look, they're going to say we've done nothing to prevent anybody from using being or duc dot Go to search the internet. You know, in Microsoft's case, it made it very difficult for anybody using a Microsoft PC to download and use Netscape right as a browser. They technically made it difficult, you could not do it. But in this case, actually it's quite easy to change your default search engine. Google may have that agreement to start as the default when you buy your device, but you can go in and change your device. So it's questionable as to whether is this really foreclosing Google competitors or isn't it And so we're going to have to see how that testimony comes out about how sticky it is to be the default, how much users actually do switch back and.

Look, they're going to say we've done nothing to prevent anybody from using being or duc dot Go to search the internet. You know, in Microsoft's case, it made it very difficult for anybody using a Microsoft PC to download and use Netscape right as a browser. They technically made it difficult, you could not do it. But in this case, actually it's quite easy to change your default search engine. Google may have that agreement to start as the default when you buy your device, but you can go in and change your device. So it's questionable as to whether is this really foreclosing Google competitors or isn't it And so we're going to have to see how that testimony comes out about how sticky it is to be the default, how much users actually do switch back and.

Forth, And isn't it interesting that's coming all at this moment where we're suddenly thinking the monopoli is under attack from chat GPT four, the idea that AI is really it's the competitor of choice now.

Forth, And isn't it interesting that's coming all at this moment where we're suddenly thinking the monopoli is under attack from chat GPT four, the idea that AI is really it's the competitor of choice now.

You know.

You know.

The interesting thing about technology is that the markets can change so quickly and so drastically, you know, And this is one of the things that all the tech companies will claim. Look, I may have a monopoly now, but this could change any day. And we're always trying to hold onto our position and technology changes and you really can't judge it sort of the way the antitrust laws are judging it right now.

The interesting thing about technology is that the markets can change so quickly and so drastically, you know, And this is one of the things that all the tech companies will claim. Look, I may have a monopoly now, but this could change any day. And we're always trying to hold onto our position and technology changes and you really can't judge it sort of the way the antitrust laws are judging it right now.

You know, you have to think about chat GBT.

You know, you have to think about chat GBT.

I tend to think chat gbt is a bigger threat to Google, actually Google Search than this particular trial.

I tend to think chat gbt is a bigger threat to Google, actually Google Search than this particular trial.

Interesting, Jenniferry, We're so pleased to have her hair from Blue Meg Intelligence, and we want to dig into the legal ramifications a little bit more, the arguments being set forth for Rebecca Allen'sworth, professor of Law. I've write, Vanderbilt, it is wonderful to have your perspective hair, Rebecca. And the track record thus far of the government in the antitrust case is it ain't been good? I mean, are embracing yourself that perhaps they could land this one.

Interesting, Jenniferry, We're so pleased to have her hair from Blue Meg Intelligence, and we want to dig into the legal ramifications a little bit more, the arguments being set forth for Rebecca Allen'sworth, professor of Law. I've write, Vanderbilt, it is wonderful to have your perspective hair, Rebecca. And the track record thus far of the government in the antitrust case is it ain't been good? I mean, are embracing yourself that perhaps they could land this one.

Well, all antitrust trials are really hard to win, and this is no different. The government's arguments are good, and I think that if they have a chance of winning in any case, they have a chance of winning in this one. I do take issue with the idea that their track record has been bad. It's true that they've lost a lot of cases in terms of the final outcome. But along the way there have been some important holdings that I think actually vindicate the current enforcement attitude that the FTC and the dj is taking.

Well, all antitrust trials are really hard to win, and this is no different. The government's arguments are good, and I think that if they have a chance of winning in any case, they have a chance of winning in this one. I do take issue with the idea that their track record has been bad. It's true that they've lost a lot of cases in terms of the final outcome. But along the way there have been some important holdings that I think actually vindicate the current enforcement attitude that the FTC and the dj is taking.

Let's dwell on that a little bit, because this isn't just about winning individual fights, but it's about sort of changing the narrative the leaning of how future FTCs as well and future administrations might just tackle big tech. Do you think that has changed?

Let's dwell on that a little bit, because this isn't just about winning individual fights, but it's about sort of changing the narrative the leaning of how future FTCs as well and future administrations might just tackle big tech. Do you think that has changed?

I think it has.

I think it has.

I mean, there's a case from about fifteen years ago actually involving Google, in which the court said that there cannot be any antitrust harm in a market for which consumers don't pay for the product, and that is not likely to be the holding in this case because we've realized that free products aren't really so free. So that's just one example of how yes, it's it's it's changed over time in.

I mean, there's a case from about fifteen years ago actually involving Google, in which the court said that there cannot be any antitrust harm in a market for which consumers don't pay for the product, and that is not likely to be the holding in this case because we've realized that free products aren't really so free. So that's just one example of how yes, it's it's it's changed over time in.

Terms of the technicalities of this particular case. How do you think the arguments will land thus far? When you're hearing of the ten million being paid by Google to maintain basically key relationships with phonemakers, how do you think the alternatives are going to land coming from Google?

Terms of the technicalities of this particular case. How do you think the arguments will land thus far? When you're hearing of the ten million being paid by Google to maintain basically key relationships with phonemakers, how do you think the alternatives are going to land coming from Google?

Well, I think that they have some strong arguments too, honestly.

Well, I think that they have some strong arguments too, honestly.

So they're going to argue two things.

So they're going to argue two things.

They're going to say, first of all, we are big not because we have these exclusive dealing contracts, but we're big because we were better. Consumers have voted. That's what competition is supposed to do, and we won. We're the best search engine. They're also going to say that these are not actually exclusive dealing contracts. Competition is just a click away. This, I think is a less strong argument, and I do think this is a lot like the argument made in the Microsoft case, but kind of put together, there is an intuition that, you know, consumers really like Google. They're not downloading bing and Duck Duck go to their phones, and that's competition, so that will be hard to overcome for the government.

They're going to say, first of all, we are big not because we have these exclusive dealing contracts, but we're big because we were better. Consumers have voted. That's what competition is supposed to do, and we won. We're the best search engine. They're also going to say that these are not actually exclusive dealing contracts. Competition is just a click away. This, I think is a less strong argument, and I do think this is a lot like the argument made in the Microsoft case, but kind of put together, there is an intuition that, you know, consumers really like Google. They're not downloading bing and Duck Duck go to their phones, and that's competition, so that will be hard to overcome for the government.

We're looking at year to date chart of Alphabet shares right now about fifty four percent. It doesn't feel as though the investor and analyst community are particularly fretting over some sort of big breakup or impact to the overall revenue streams of this business. That's largely about where artificial intelligence takes us. But for the here and the NARRABECKA, do you think that some sort of risk does need to be factored in how do you think that people are bracing themselves.

We're looking at year to date chart of Alphabet shares right now about fifty four percent. It doesn't feel as though the investor and analyst community are particularly fretting over some sort of big breakup or impact to the overall revenue streams of this business. That's largely about where artificial intelligence takes us. But for the here and the NARRABECKA, do you think that some sort of risk does need to be factored in how do you think that people are bracing themselves.

So I think as far as the market risk, I don't know that this trial poses a huge risk to Google's bottom line. And that's for a few different reasons. First of all, I think that they're more likely than not to win. I think that maybe speaks to the weakness of our antitrust laws.

So I think as far as the market risk, I don't know that this trial poses a huge risk to Google's bottom line. And that's for a few different reasons. First of all, I think that they're more likely than not to win. I think that maybe speaks to the weakness of our antitrust laws.

But the other thing is Google.

But the other thing is Google.

Is big, and Google is dominant for reasons other than these exclusive of dealing contracts. I think a breakup is unlikely. I think even if the government wins, what they're going to get is an injunction against these contracts, and it's a small piece of why Google is so dominant. I think this trial matters more for precedent and for anti trust law and for what it means for the rest of tech.

Is big, and Google is dominant for reasons other than these exclusive of dealing contracts. I think a breakup is unlikely. I think even if the government wins, what they're going to get is an injunction against these contracts, and it's a small piece of why Google is so dominant. I think this trial matters more for precedent and for anti trust law and for what it means for the rest of tech.

Rebecca, really great to get your expertise. We thank you so much. Rebecca Alla's were founderment law school professor. This one's going to roll on, so I have a feeling we'll be inviting her back. Meanwhile, coming up, Cage Matches, they've become part of a technology show much more than I ever envisioned. But let's have a look at WW and the UFC today combining as a public entity training on the New York Stock Exchange. I'm going to be discussing law within deva COO Mark Shapiro. That's next. This is blouly bout technology time now for talking tech. First up, arm preparing for the biggest IPO of the year, and its CEO is pitching investors a little bit of a pivot. Instead of focusing on chips for smartphones and other electronics that sell for pennies, Army is doing complex design work, it says, folks on specific products tailored for what sees as a key area of growth, of course, largely being AI. Currently, its listing is oversubscribed by ten times plus. Ali Baba will put artificial intelligence and user experience at the top of its priorities as its new leadership seeks to reclaim customers and indeed market share. CEO Eddi Wu laid out his vision in a memo to staff, stressing its approach to go AI first, while not forgetting the one hundreds of millions of users that helped create one of China's largest corporations. And senators here in America will question the nation's top technology leaders as Congress confronts thus posed by what they see as a rapid rise of artificial intelligence. Tomorrow, it's going to be a closed door inaugural AI forum. You're going to see these two gentlemen, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, also so of Pitchee and others who are going to be attending to ask questions and concerns of the burgeoning technology. Meanwhile, talking of those two individuals and Musk, remember we were all talking about cage matches. Well, we're talking also fighting more broadly, the billions of money it brings in Endeavor today completing its takeover ww and combining it with UFC to create a publicly traded fighting machine called TKO. That's technical knockout being the boxing term. Now, earlier I discussed the news with Endeavor and now TKO's COO and president, that's Mark Shapiro, and this is what he talked about in terms of competition taking.

Rebecca, really great to get your expertise. We thank you so much. Rebecca Alla's were founderment law school professor. This one's going to roll on, so I have a feeling we'll be inviting her back. Meanwhile, coming up, Cage Matches, they've become part of a technology show much more than I ever envisioned. But let's have a look at WW and the UFC today combining as a public entity training on the New York Stock Exchange. I'm going to be discussing law within deva COO Mark Shapiro. That's next. This is blouly bout technology time now for talking tech. First up, arm preparing for the biggest IPO of the year, and its CEO is pitching investors a little bit of a pivot. Instead of focusing on chips for smartphones and other electronics that sell for pennies, Army is doing complex design work, it says, folks on specific products tailored for what sees as a key area of growth, of course, largely being AI. Currently, its listing is oversubscribed by ten times plus. Ali Baba will put artificial intelligence and user experience at the top of its priorities as its new leadership seeks to reclaim customers and indeed market share. CEO Eddi Wu laid out his vision in a memo to staff, stressing its approach to go AI first, while not forgetting the one hundreds of millions of users that helped create one of China's largest corporations. And senators here in America will question the nation's top technology leaders as Congress confronts thus posed by what they see as a rapid rise of artificial intelligence. Tomorrow, it's going to be a closed door inaugural AI forum. You're going to see these two gentlemen, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, also so of Pitchee and others who are going to be attending to ask questions and concerns of the burgeoning technology. Meanwhile, talking of those two individuals and Musk, remember we were all talking about cage matches. Well, we're talking also fighting more broadly, the billions of money it brings in Endeavor today completing its takeover ww and combining it with UFC to create a publicly traded fighting machine called TKO. That's technical knockout being the boxing term. Now, earlier I discussed the news with Endeavor and now TKO's COO and president, that's Mark Shapiro, and this is what he talked about in terms of competition taking.

Listen, the market completely overreacted last week because ultimately piff came out said they were going to make one hundred million dollar investment.

Listen, the market completely overreacted last week because ultimately piff came out said they were going to make one hundred million dollar investment.

In the PFL. And you know what, We're fans of the BFL.

In the PFL. And you know what, We're fans of the BFL.

We're fans of any entity that supports MMA for the UFC. Rising tide lifts all boats on this front, and the UFC is where everybody wants to get to. I mean, the UFC is really the NFL of combat sports. So when we welcome it, I think the overreaction was really.

We're fans of any entity that supports MMA for the UFC. Rising tide lifts all boats on this front, and the UFC is where everybody wants to get to. I mean, the UFC is really the NFL of combat sports. So when we welcome it, I think the overreaction was really.

About fighter pay.

About fighter pay.

If there's more and more competition and there's more and more brands coming to the table, is fighter pagan to get out of control and hurt UFC's margins.

If there's more and more competition and there's more and more brands coming to the table, is fighter pagan to get out of control and hurt UFC's margins.

And it couldn't be farther from the truth.

And it couldn't be farther from the truth.

Because the real growth of UFC, the revenue growth, has been driven by high margin revenue streams such as our media deals and sponsorships, and at the end of the day, any fighter pay increase can be absorbed by the increases we're seeing in those revenue streams and results still in margin accretion.

Because the real growth of UFC, the revenue growth, has been driven by high margin revenue streams such as our media deals and sponsorships, and at the end of the day, any fighter pay increase can be absorbed by the increases we're seeing in those revenue streams and results still in margin accretion.

Let's talk about the board that of course, he said that you're going to be controlling, but there's a bit of a key man risk with being McMahon himself ofwe how do you see that and his real dedication as executive chair to the overall TKO.

Let's talk about the board that of course, he said that you're going to be controlling, but there's a bit of a key man risk with being McMahon himself ofwe how do you see that and his real dedication as executive chair to the overall TKO.

He's very similar to Dana White. I mean, Vince McMahon is very similar. He's a founder.

He's very similar to Dana White. I mean, Vince McMahon is very similar. He's a founder.

He's a pioneer, he's an innovator, he's a hard charger, he's got unbelievable relationships, and he's grown this sport from nothing to be the global behemoth that it is. So I welcome him being executive chairman. Ari and I are very excited a partner with him. And just in the early days we haven't been able to kind of get in there and really integrate. We've already seen a willingness to do that. Terrific communication, terrific collaboration, and I think Vince really recognizes the areas of business he has undermonetized or his team is undermonetized. And that's why the merger, the partnership here, because we can teach them something, meaning UFC an endeavor and WW can surely teach us something.

He's a pioneer, he's an innovator, he's a hard charger, he's got unbelievable relationships, and he's grown this sport from nothing to be the global behemoth that it is. So I welcome him being executive chairman. Ari and I are very excited a partner with him. And just in the early days we haven't been able to kind of get in there and really integrate. We've already seen a willingness to do that. Terrific communication, terrific collaboration, and I think Vince really recognizes the areas of business he has undermonetized or his team is undermonetized. And that's why the merger, the partnership here, because we can teach them something, meaning UFC an endeavor and WW can surely teach us something.

And at the end of the day, one plus one equals five.

And at the end of the day, one plus one equals five.

He's been subpoena though, is a legal risk.

He's been subpoena though, is a legal risk.

What I would say on that is, you know, federal law enforcement and regulatory agencies, they are doing their investigations and there will be due process and we're not going to get involved in that. Will stand by, well, listen, We'll take our cues. He'll be executive chairman. He'll do his day job and if somebody else tells us something we.

What I would say on that is, you know, federal law enforcement and regulatory agencies, they are doing their investigations and there will be due process and we're not going to get involved in that. Will stand by, well, listen, We'll take our cues. He'll be executive chairman. He'll do his day job and if somebody else tells us something we.

Need to do differently or pivot course correct, we will.

Need to do differently or pivot course correct, we will.

And let's talk about coursing and charting a course in this economic environment where you are seemingly very excited by the opportunities. Is two MONETI to get more brands in, but the grands are scared to spend money right now. The economy is volatile, to say the least. How do you see that?

And let's talk about coursing and charting a course in this economic environment where you are seemingly very excited by the opportunities. Is two MONETI to get more brands in, but the grands are scared to spend money right now. The economy is volatile, to say the least. How do you see that?

What I see in that is the thirty second spot.

What I see in that is the thirty second spot.

Traditional ad budgets are certainly being compromised, but from an activation standpoint, an experiential standpoint, which is where we sit right. We have three hundred and fifty events annually. We have a billion fans, we have a billion social followers. Advertisers wann't access to those fans.

Traditional ad budgets are certainly being compromised, but from an activation standpoint, an experiential standpoint, which is where we sit right. We have three hundred and fifty events annually. We have a billion fans, we have a billion social followers. Advertisers wann't access to those fans.

Meanwhile, we've got to talk Apple once again. We're going to join by Miravell Lopez, founder and principe analyst of Lopez Research. Her take and want to expect from the key event. This is bloom Meg Technology. Welcome back to blue Meag Technology. I'm karenin Hoied in New York. We are going to check in on these markets on the oral important day ahead of CPI print for macro, day of micro news when it comes to Apple. Look in the NAT one hundred, just off about two thirds and percentage point. There is a nervousness out there regarding some of the big macro headwinds and indeed, well some of the read across from earnings that I'll dig into in a moment. Bitcoin no actually getting a bit of a push hiret for almost five percent on the upside twenty six three hundred. And remember there's a lot of volatility in overall crypto as we anticipate whether there'll be FTX sales. But we also think that Franklin Templeton seems to be adding its weight into the rush to get a spot bitcoin ETF adding a little bit of well move music to the upside on Bitcoin. I'm looking at Bloomberg Commodity Index up a ten percent despite a stronger dollar today. That's more about the strength of oil and OPEC saying they're seeing these type markets. Let's move on from the macro to the micro pictures. I want to shine a light on what's happening with Oracle, as I said, having its worst day since two thousand and two are off by twelve percent. We see revenue growth not living up to expectations. They actually put in thirty percent increase in terms of cloud revenue when the market wanted higher. We're seeing also Intel on the upside actually divesting some stakes in a nanofabricator in particular IMS, and we're seeing it well ten percent state being offloaded. That makes the shares just rise about two percent of selling it to TSMC. And I'm looking lastly at Apple, maybe there's the question of how much mister worried about the headwinds of China. We're worried about the chip implications are still having to turn to quol commed. We're off by one and a half percent as we anticipate those big unveils over there where you are in California.

Meanwhile, we've got to talk Apple once again. We're going to join by Miravell Lopez, founder and principe analyst of Lopez Research. Her take and want to expect from the key event. This is bloom Meg Technology. Welcome back to blue Meag Technology. I'm karenin Hoied in New York. We are going to check in on these markets on the oral important day ahead of CPI print for macro, day of micro news when it comes to Apple. Look in the NAT one hundred, just off about two thirds and percentage point. There is a nervousness out there regarding some of the big macro headwinds and indeed, well some of the read across from earnings that I'll dig into in a moment. Bitcoin no actually getting a bit of a push hiret for almost five percent on the upside twenty six three hundred. And remember there's a lot of volatility in overall crypto as we anticipate whether there'll be FTX sales. But we also think that Franklin Templeton seems to be adding its weight into the rush to get a spot bitcoin ETF adding a little bit of well move music to the upside on Bitcoin. I'm looking at Bloomberg Commodity Index up a ten percent despite a stronger dollar today. That's more about the strength of oil and OPEC saying they're seeing these type markets. Let's move on from the macro to the micro pictures. I want to shine a light on what's happening with Oracle, as I said, having its worst day since two thousand and two are off by twelve percent. We see revenue growth not living up to expectations. They actually put in thirty percent increase in terms of cloud revenue when the market wanted higher. We're seeing also Intel on the upside actually divesting some stakes in a nanofabricator in particular IMS, and we're seeing it well ten percent state being offloaded. That makes the shares just rise about two percent of selling it to TSMC. And I'm looking lastly at Apple, maybe there's the question of how much mister worried about the headwinds of China. We're worried about the chip implications are still having to turn to quol commed. We're off by one and a half percent as we anticipate those big unveils over there where you are in California.

Yeah, these Apple events are always a bar is high for the market moment. Right There's been twelve iPhone launch events going back to twenty eleven. On the day the stocks ended up down nine out of twelve, so that's kind of the precedent that's set. There's so much more to recap with thirty minutes from the start of Apple's wonder last event, where we're expecting four variants of the next gen iPhone fifteen.

Yeah, these Apple events are always a bar is high for the market moment. Right There's been twelve iPhone launch events going back to twenty eleven. On the day the stocks ended up down nine out of twelve, so that's kind of the precedent that's set. There's so much more to recap with thirty minutes from the start of Apple's wonder last event, where we're expecting four variants of the next gen iPhone fifteen.

Let's keep the conversation going.

Let's keep the conversation going.

Marabell Lopez Lopez research principle analyst joining us on Bloomberg Technology right now. One thing we haven't quite talked about is the camera upgrade on the Pro and Pro Max. Historically camera upgrades are important. How important are they this time around?

Marabell Lopez Lopez research principle analyst joining us on Bloomberg Technology right now. One thing we haven't quite talked about is the camera upgrade on the Pro and Pro Max. Historically camera upgrades are important. How important are they this time around?

For Apple?

For Apple?

They're a very popular feature with consumers. They're looking for better cameras, and this time we have the opportunity to get a hardware based center option combined with AI software, So we expect it's going to be a big leap in performance and perhaps what all the wonderlust is all about.

They're a very popular feature with consumers. They're looking for better cameras, and this time we have the opportunity to get a hardware based center option combined with AI software, So we expect it's going to be a big leap in performance and perhaps what all the wonderlust is all about.

Yeah, Caroline and I have been very busy for the last seven days talking about what's happening in China. Bloomberg reported that China Central government is expanding a clamp down on the use of foreign handsets, in particular iPhone for government agencies and state backs enterprises. Is that a concern ahead of a big launch of an ext gen iPhone for Apple?

Yeah, Caroline and I have been very busy for the last seven days talking about what's happening in China. Bloomberg reported that China Central government is expanding a clamp down on the use of foreign handsets, in particular iPhone for government agencies and state backs enterprises. Is that a concern ahead of a big launch of an ext gen iPhone for Apple?

You know, we see it's still posturing right now. We think it's a long way from a wholesale ban on Apple tech In China. But it is concerning because it starts with the government and then it could roll into government owned companies or government shall we say, government controlled companies. So there's a lot of opportunity and risk associated with this right now, but I think it's still too early to call it as an issue for iPhone sales in the near term.

You know, we see it's still posturing right now. We think it's a long way from a wholesale ban on Apple tech In China. But it is concerning because it starts with the government and then it could roll into government owned companies or government shall we say, government controlled companies. So there's a lot of opportunity and risk associated with this right now, but I think it's still too early to call it as an issue for iPhone sales in the near term.

In the near term, then, is the US economy an issue or do you think that everyone is willing to continue to pay up for a more high functioning and indeed lighter device even though the price point just keeps on getting higher.

In the near term, then, is the US economy an issue or do you think that everyone is willing to continue to pay up for a more high functioning and indeed lighter device even though the price point just keeps on getting higher.

I think where we are in the market right now is that Apple is really targeting a premium consumer and aspirational consumer, and they are still willing to pay for these device upgrades. We're expecting that there's going to be a price increase on the promax, but we also expect that that premium aspirational buyer will be willing to pay that. The real risk for Apple is if they do not have a set of smaller, cheaper product category, do they see share to someone else in the market. And I think their perspective is, we don't really care. We want the premium buyer, we want the higher margin.

I think where we are in the market right now is that Apple is really targeting a premium consumer and aspirational consumer, and they are still willing to pay for these device upgrades. We're expecting that there's going to be a price increase on the promax, but we also expect that that premium aspirational buyer will be willing to pay that. The real risk for Apple is if they do not have a set of smaller, cheaper product category, do they see share to someone else in the market. And I think their perspective is, we don't really care. We want the premium buyer, we want the higher margin.

Okay, what about you know, the competitive space that is wearables as well. How much focus do we give the watch and the announcements.

Okay, what about you know, the competitive space that is wearables as well. How much focus do we give the watch and the announcements.

I think the watch is something that we have continued to wait for that big bang on and it's only broken through a certain set at the consumer base. What I do think will happen is that watch buyers are very attracted to this product and will continue to buy upgrades to this product because it is part of their overarching health and fitness goal. The big question is can we get new markets into it. They've made a play for the elder population and a lot of people have bought these devices for their family members. We still see opportunity there. There is still actually an opportunity for the wearable in the workplace, particularly as we look at first line workers where it can actually provide quite a bit of health and safety. We've really not seen any penetration in that market, so it could be the twenty twenty four is the year that we start to see the watch get better enterprise play as well.

I think the watch is something that we have continued to wait for that big bang on and it's only broken through a certain set at the consumer base. What I do think will happen is that watch buyers are very attracted to this product and will continue to buy upgrades to this product because it is part of their overarching health and fitness goal. The big question is can we get new markets into it. They've made a play for the elder population and a lot of people have bought these devices for their family members. We still see opportunity there. There is still actually an opportunity for the wearable in the workplace, particularly as we look at first line workers where it can actually provide quite a bit of health and safety. We've really not seen any penetration in that market, so it could be the twenty twenty four is the year that we start to see the watch get better enterprise play as well.

Kind of other bucket of things. We expect a move to USBC, USBC going into the pro AirPods, and then some kind of you know, the watch changes that we just outlined. How much importance do you place on the other bucket that we just talked about.

Kind of other bucket of things. We expect a move to USBC, USBC going into the pro AirPods, and then some kind of you know, the watch changes that we just outlined. How much importance do you place on the other bucket that we just talked about.

I think the other bucket is nice to have. They'd still sell the products without the USBC, but having said that, there are regulations that have been proposed that they need to address, and if you're going to do it in one region, you have to do the all regions. We think it's going to be really good for consumers. It's really going to open up the ecosystem to a wide range of companies that already have USBC product. So that is going to be good for Apple and good for the people that build around the smartphone smart watch ecosystem.

I think the other bucket is nice to have. They'd still sell the products without the USBC, but having said that, there are regulations that have been proposed that they need to address, and if you're going to do it in one region, you have to do the all regions. We think it's going to be really good for consumers. It's really going to open up the ecosystem to a wide range of companies that already have USBC product. So that is going to be good for Apple and good for the people that build around the smartphone smart watch ecosystem.

Marabob, there's a piece of data. It's been stuck in my head for a few days now. Tim Cook talked about several quarters of slow down in the US smartphone market, three straight quarters of sales declines for Apple. But if you look at IDC in that period, particularly the second quarter, they grew market share even in a market that's pulling back against Samsung. What does that tell you Apple's ability to gain market share.

Marabob, there's a piece of data. It's been stuck in my head for a few days now. Tim Cook talked about several quarters of slow down in the US smartphone market, three straight quarters of sales declines for Apple. But if you look at IDC in that period, particularly the second quarter, they grew market share even in a market that's pulling back against Samsung. What does that tell you Apple's ability to gain market share.

They've had tremendous resilience and what's been looking like a major smartphone slowdown splash smartphone winner. Similar to what we've seen in the PC market, there could be double digital clients that continue on. But what we're seeing happening with Apple is the strength of the Apple ecosystem in terms of the applications and in terms of the cool factor has really kept them in this more Brazilian position. We expect that since they're the only provider of iOS software right now, that they're going to have strength through the next several quarters, despite it being a difficult market. Perhaps not as strong as we would all like to see them perform, but I still think they'll do well compared to the market at large.

They've had tremendous resilience and what's been looking like a major smartphone slowdown splash smartphone winner. Similar to what we've seen in the PC market, there could be double digital clients that continue on. But what we're seeing happening with Apple is the strength of the Apple ecosystem in terms of the applications and in terms of the cool factor has really kept them in this more Brazilian position. We expect that since they're the only provider of iOS software right now, that they're going to have strength through the next several quarters, despite it being a difficult market. Perhaps not as strong as we would all like to see them perform, but I still think they'll do well compared to the market at large.

Well do they need to remind us of the vision pro and the cool factor of that.

Well do they need to remind us of the vision pro and the cool factor of that.

They do, But the reality is it still seems like that being a market that's going to really add top line and bottom line dollars to Apple is still quite a few quarters away. I think they'll talk about it so that they can keep the momentum alive to get people thinking about it for twenty four buys, but I'm not sure it's going to be a big year for that this coming year.

They do, But the reality is it still seems like that being a market that's going to really add top line and bottom line dollars to Apple is still quite a few quarters away. I think they'll talk about it so that they can keep the momentum alive to get people thinking about it for twenty four buys, but I'm not sure it's going to be a big year for that this coming year.

And lastly, I mean, what everyone has waited for a void to be filled by Apple is what they're going to be doing about artificial intelligence, how.

And lastly, I mean, what everyone has waited for a void to be filled by Apple is what they're going to be doing about artificial intelligence, how.

They're going to be intweaving that within its services. You already talk about the power of the Apple ecosystem. Within that, I think fintech, but I also think Siri, and I think about the ways that ultimately general to AI might up the antea.

They're going to be intweaving that within its services. You already talk about the power of the Apple ecosystem. Within that, I think fintech, but I also think Siri, and I think about the ways that ultimately general to AI might up the antea.

Are you waiting for that moment?

Are you waiting for that moment?

I think we're already starting to see that moment. We're seeing it in software that's being built, we're seeing in the chipsets that Apple provides. And you back on the earlier discussion about the chipset, this has been a big push and concern for Apple, and being able to control at least some of the hardware behind that allows them to be better positioned to actually embraces Jenny I with that is really rushing over us at this point in time. So I think that they'll have a strong showing and AI related products as a result of the power of the processor. And it's one of the things that keeps the phone expensive, but it's also one of the things that keeps the phone.

I think we're already starting to see that moment. We're seeing it in software that's being built, we're seeing in the chipsets that Apple provides. And you back on the earlier discussion about the chipset, this has been a big push and concern for Apple, and being able to control at least some of the hardware behind that allows them to be better positioned to actually embraces Jenny I with that is really rushing over us at this point in time. So I think that they'll have a strong showing and AI related products as a result of the power of the processor. And it's one of the things that keeps the phone expensive, but it's also one of the things that keeps the phone.

Interesting and about Lopez founder and principle analysts of Lopez Research. Great to have your take there and Ed, isn't it interesting that Marabella ends her point on it keeps on allowing them to up the price point, But it makes you more interesting.

Interesting and about Lopez founder and principle analysts of Lopez Research. Great to have your take there and Ed, isn't it interesting that Marabella ends her point on it keeps on allowing them to up the price point, But it makes you more interesting.

Ed.

Ed.

Yeah, if your dan ives a webburst, you point to two hundred and fifty million old generation iPhones around the world that are due for upgrade, and that drives volumes. If you're Anna rag Rana at Bloomberg Intelligence our analysts, he would say, look at prices. iPhone fourteen Pro is nine hundred and ninety nine US dollars. What if what if Apple price is the iPhone fifteen pro and promax incrementally higher or substantively higher than that? Are those kind of first adopters that Carolina mean Lacey was talking about. Are they willing to spend at that price point?

Yeah, if your dan ives a webburst, you point to two hundred and fifty million old generation iPhones around the world that are due for upgrade, and that drives volumes. If you're Anna rag Rana at Bloomberg Intelligence our analysts, he would say, look at prices. iPhone fourteen Pro is nine hundred and ninety nine US dollars. What if what if Apple price is the iPhone fifteen pro and promax incrementally higher or substantively higher than that? Are those kind of first adopters that Carolina mean Lacey was talking about. Are they willing to spend at that price point?

And to that point, what does it do for the overarching average selling point? Does it mean that we still see people gravitating to those pros? Do they then decide, actually, you know, I can forsake a bit of an upgrade in my camera here, and indeed perhaps some speed to the chip. I'd rather hold on out and maybe just wait until I can get an iPhone fifteen on this particular generation. I don't know and the people you're speaking to in California, I feel that they're early adopters. They're going to be in no matter what, right, Yeah, yeah.

And to that point, what does it do for the overarching average selling point? Does it mean that we still see people gravitating to those pros? Do they then decide, actually, you know, I can forsake a bit of an upgrade in my camera here, and indeed perhaps some speed to the chip. I'd rather hold on out and maybe just wait until I can get an iPhone fifteen on this particular generation. I don't know and the people you're speaking to in California, I feel that they're early adopters. They're going to be in no matter what, right, Yeah, yeah.

They focus on the technology, so the processor has faster speeds, more memory added. But the other benefit is better battery life or battery performance, which for everyone watching this program, let's all agree battery life on iPhone is key.

They focus on the technology, so the processor has faster speeds, more memory added. But the other benefit is better battery life or battery performance, which for everyone watching this program, let's all agree battery life on iPhone is key.

Yeah, mister two phones ed, I'm sure you can agree. Meanwhile, coming up, look, we're going to have a bit of a book club moment, going to take a pass from Apple just for a split second and discuss two new books detailing the thoughts and actions made by well some pretty polarizing figures, Sam Badman Freed in a musk Stay tuned. There's a been technology. It feels an age ago. But boy, the collapse of Sam Badman Freed's FTX it sent shock waves throughout the crypto market, and it rather lined up in time for a new book called Number Go Up. Since side crypto's wild rise and staggering for makes investigative reporters, Fox goes down basically an entire rabbit hole to learn more about digital tokens, lesser known mechanics of the industry, and well, zee, am I fair in saying that you came back kind of underwhelmed by the whole situation. Was that it felt as though it was just funny, raucous, absurd, but at times pretty shocking. Remind us how it all began.

Yeah, mister two phones ed, I'm sure you can agree. Meanwhile, coming up, look, we're going to have a bit of a book club moment, going to take a pass from Apple just for a split second and discuss two new books detailing the thoughts and actions made by well some pretty polarizing figures, Sam Badman Freed in a musk Stay tuned. There's a been technology. It feels an age ago. But boy, the collapse of Sam Badman Freed's FTX it sent shock waves throughout the crypto market, and it rather lined up in time for a new book called Number Go Up. Since side crypto's wild rise and staggering for makes investigative reporters, Fox goes down basically an entire rabbit hole to learn more about digital tokens, lesser known mechanics of the industry, and well, zee, am I fair in saying that you came back kind of underwhelmed by the whole situation. Was that it felt as though it was just funny, raucous, absurd, but at times pretty shocking. Remind us how it all began.

So I started out like a lot of people just fall like I saw my friends getting big scores on dogecoin, Salana like whatever. I thought the whole thing was kind of annoying. It seemed dumb, but I wanted to I got sucked in. I decided to investigate, and I found myself on like this crazy adventure. And but two years later I was in Cambodia investigating crypto fueled human trafficking. And then I was at Sam Bankman Freed's penthouse in the Bahamas, just before the cops showed up. So even though I resisted, I was glad I went down the crypto rabbit hole.

So I started out like a lot of people just fall like I saw my friends getting big scores on dogecoin, Salana like whatever. I thought the whole thing was kind of annoying. It seemed dumb, but I wanted to I got sucked in. I decided to investigate, and I found myself on like this crazy adventure. And but two years later I was in Cambodia investigating crypto fueled human trafficking. And then I was at Sam Bankman Freed's penthouse in the Bahamas, just before the cops showed up. So even though I resisted, I was glad I went down the crypto rabbit hole.

I can imagine when you start to describe writings around human trafficking, that those are the moments as a journalist you need but don't always want. I mean, what was the really dark underbelly or what was happening in the crypto world?

I can imagine when you start to describe writings around human trafficking, that those are the moments as a journalist you need but don't always want. I mean, what was the really dark underbelly or what was happening in the crypto world?

So you always hear things about like, oh, crypto might be used for money laundering or other illicit purposes. What I found is that there are whole like office parks in Cambodia and southwestern cam where there's like Flora after Flora, people who are working around the clock under thread of beatings and torture, sending spam text messages to people in richer countries trying to trick them into investing in crypto and other like crypto and gambling scams.

So you always hear things about like, oh, crypto might be used for money laundering or other illicit purposes. What I found is that there are whole like office parks in Cambodia and southwestern cam where there's like Flora after Flora, people who are working around the clock under thread of beatings and torture, sending spam text messages to people in richer countries trying to trick them into investing in crypto and other like crypto and gambling scams.

Was there any repercussion from that? Are you starting to see? I mean, ultimately we had to see a blow up of gargantuan proportions for regulators for people to start to become involved and dig more deeply or what ultimately was the FTX showdown. But what about human trafficking and Cambodia? Who is looking at that?

Was there any repercussion from that? Are you starting to see? I mean, ultimately we had to see a blow up of gargantuan proportions for regulators for people to start to become involved and dig more deeply or what ultimately was the FTX showdown. But what about human trafficking and Cambodia? Who is looking at that?

Yeah, So it's starting to get more attention from like Interpool, the UN. It's like an international issue, but within the crypto world, like when I was at it's been sort of ignored. Like when I went to go talk to Sam Bankman feed for the last time as apartment when things were blowing up, I was like, have you read about any of this like, do you realize that some of these criminals are sending money like to your exchange And he's like hmm, like that sounds bad.

Yeah, So it's starting to get more attention from like Interpool, the UN. It's like an international issue, but within the crypto world, like when I was at it's been sort of ignored. Like when I went to go talk to Sam Bankman feed for the last time as apartment when things were blowing up, I was like, have you read about any of this like, do you realize that some of these criminals are sending money like to your exchange And he's like hmm, like that sounds bad.

So go into his psyche, like obviously you saw him at probably the most extraordinary moment, But what do you think his overwhelming drive was. Because we've got to remember, the trial is happening relatively soon, and he's still deeming himself, you know, not guilty.

So go into his psyche, like obviously you saw him at probably the most extraordinary moment, But what do you think his overwhelming drive was. Because we've got to remember, the trial is happening relatively soon, and he's still deeming himself, you know, not guilty.

So when I met him, I was fascinated by this idea that like when he was a teenager, he was like, I want to do something good for the world. Somebody convinced him the best thing to do would be to get rich, and then like ten years later, at least on paper, he's one of the richest guys in the world. And I actually some people think that like it was all a lie, he was a monster the whole time. I actually think that this drive, this belief in his own self righteousness, led him to do take insane risks and led him to where he is today.

So when I met him, I was fascinated by this idea that like when he was a teenager, he was like, I want to do something good for the world. Somebody convinced him the best thing to do would be to get rich, and then like ten years later, at least on paper, he's one of the richest guys in the world. And I actually some people think that like it was all a lie, he was a monster the whole time. I actually think that this drive, this belief in his own self righteousness, led him to do take insane risks and led him to where he is today.

He ris I mean, ultimately the reason crypto is sort of like a media gift that keeps on giving and in an extraordinary rabbit hole field to have gone down is sort of celebrity meets vast quantities of cash meets overnight success meets ridiculous acronyms, all sort of bombarded into one. There's a lot of Seanan Freuder. There's a lot of like, how these you know, celebrities and lost vast amounts on NFTs. But I mean you bought a board ape at one point, I mean, how do you think this ends up playing out? Ultimately? Everyone loses money.

He ris I mean, ultimately the reason crypto is sort of like a media gift that keeps on giving and in an extraordinary rabbit hole field to have gone down is sort of celebrity meets vast quantities of cash meets overnight success meets ridiculous acronyms, all sort of bombarded into one. There's a lot of Seanan Freuder. There's a lot of like, how these you know, celebrities and lost vast amounts on NFTs. But I mean you bought a board ape at one point, I mean, how do you think this ends up playing out? Ultimately? Everyone loses money.

I mean, if you anyone who's seen like the last couple of years, if you've paid any attention, it's hard to say, like, oh, let's run it all back, like let's wait for the next cycle. I think that's that's pretty unlikely. But it was pretty fun to be a part of it this last time. And yeah, buying a board ape. I got to go to Apefest, which was like a week long party for people who own these one hundred thousand dollars ugly cartoon JPEGs.

I mean, if you anyone who's seen like the last couple of years, if you've paid any attention, it's hard to say, like, oh, let's run it all back, like let's wait for the next cycle. I think that's that's pretty unlikely. But it was pretty fun to be a part of it this last time. And yeah, buying a board ape. I got to go to Apefest, which was like a week long party for people who own these one hundred thousand dollars ugly cartoon JPEGs.

But that's loyalty, right, that's creating a club. You think that's dead entirely.

But that's loyalty, right, that's creating a club. You think that's dead entirely.

The party costs.

The party costs.

I mean for twenty grand, you got to go mill around with a bunch of drunk dudes. I did get to confront Jimmy Fallon about the investment advice that he given these people. So for me, I think I was happy I went, But I think most people are going to be more mad about all the money they're losing than happy about you know, they got to see Amy Schumer tell some jokes about NFTs.

I mean for twenty grand, you got to go mill around with a bunch of drunk dudes. I did get to confront Jimmy Fallon about the investment advice that he given these people. So for me, I think I was happy I went, But I think most people are going to be more mad about all the money they're losing than happy about you know, they got to see Amy Schumer tell some jokes about NFTs.

Maybe Jimmy Fallon wasn't so pleased you were there either, But Zeke, I'm glad you were and to tell the story. What an amazing read. Just go read it. He's always got some incredible anecdotes and really deep, thoughtful, important reporting. Zeke Fox, We thank him. Number go up. It's now available for purchase. Meanwhile, let's talk about another key book you might be wanting to look at. The biography about Elon Musk's shedding liked about well has often dismissive behavior when given advice by powerful advisors. Walter Isaacson's Elon Musk comes out this week. Too Remote New social media reporter Asha Counts. You had a deep dive on it, and I think particularly a shocking in there. As someone who covers the ins and outs of Elon must day in.

Maybe Jimmy Fallon wasn't so pleased you were there either, But Zeke, I'm glad you were and to tell the story. What an amazing read. Just go read it. He's always got some incredible anecdotes and really deep, thoughtful, important reporting. Zeke Fox, We thank him. Number go up. It's now available for purchase. Meanwhile, let's talk about another key book you might be wanting to look at. The biography about Elon Musk's shedding liked about well has often dismissive behavior when given advice by powerful advisors. Walter Isaacson's Elon Musk comes out this week. Too Remote New social media reporter Asha Counts. You had a deep dive on it, and I think particularly a shocking in there. As someone who covers the ins and outs of Elon must day in.

Day out.

Day out.

You know, when you start to cover Elan Musk, you realize you shouldn't be shocked by anything, right, expect everything. But there were a few anecdotes and details that I thought were interesting. So he had more advisors than I had initially realized. So people like David Zaslov from warn about his discovery advised him and was saying, hey, you're kind of engaging in some self destructive behaviors that are not helping advertisers want to spend money on your platform. And they had about an hour on conversation about that, and he was like, you should focus on video, you should make your ads better. I think must kind of ignored that, cause he continued to send out tweets and things that kind of irked advertisers. But it was interesting that I didn't know that Zaslov advised him at that point.

You know, when you start to cover Elan Musk, you realize you shouldn't be shocked by anything, right, expect everything. But there were a few anecdotes and details that I thought were interesting. So he had more advisors than I had initially realized. So people like David Zaslov from warn about his discovery advised him and was saying, hey, you're kind of engaging in some self destructive behaviors that are not helping advertisers want to spend money on your platform. And they had about an hour on conversation about that, and he was like, you should focus on video, you should make your ads better. I think must kind of ignored that, cause he continued to send out tweets and things that kind of irked advertisers. But it was interesting that I didn't know that Zaslov advised him at that point.

I mean, ninety five chapters and six hundred pages, how much of this is about leadership style? How much of this is going to sort of inform us about what apparently and could well be happening within the businesses he runs at the moment?

I mean, ninety five chapters and six hundred pages, how much of this is about leadership style? How much of this is going to sort of inform us about what apparently and could well be happening within the businesses he runs at the moment?

I mean, I think it gives you some sense of how he is as a leader. Right, there's a lot of stories and details of musk kind of going out and taking charge or making erratic decisions, which we all kind of thought he was doing that and sort of knew from what he was doing with like Twitter which is now X or other companies, but you really start to see kind of behind this scenes how many people were saying, hey, maybe you shouldn't do that, right, even down to his own brother was like, I don't know if you should tweet that, and was not able to sleep at night because he was worried about what Elon might tweet. So you start to see details like that that there were more people in his inner circle that were sort of advising him and must kind of just made his own decisions.