New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy Talks Congestion Pricing

Published Nov 22, 2024, 7:11 PM

New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy discusses congestion pricing concerns. He speaks with Bloomberg's Scarlet Fu and Romaine Bostick. 

We're pleased to be sitting down with New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy here at our global headquarters in New York City. Governor Murphy, I want to start with a topic that hits close to home, which is congestion pricing in Manhattan.

Last week, the MPT.

Approved a revised plan to charge drivers nine dollars to enter much of the city versus the original fifteen dollars. You oppose both versions and are fighting it out in court. Are you seeking an emergency ruling to hal implementation? Do you think that you'll be able to stop this.

I can't speak for the judge who's adjudicated here, but we're going to try. Like heck, it's not that listen. I think we've got the strongest environmental record of any state in America over the past seven years.

I'm proud of that.

We're not against lowering pollution, We're for that. But there's a time as a place, there's a deal that works for New Jersey commuters and ones that don't, and this displaces the pollution to New Jersey.

It doesn't get rid of it.

It's an enormous burden financially on our commuters. And lastly, none of the money comes back on our side of the Hudson, where we've also got transit fiscal challenges.

So with all due.

Respect to the MTA, will we want them to solve their problem within the four walls of the MTA, just like we have withinj Transit in New Jersey. And perhaps when the gateway tunnels are finished and you've got four tunnels with rail tracks as opposed to two, or when the Port Authority bus terminal is finished the new one, which we've got both going at long last, there's a time in a place perhaps, but not now.

Okay, I'm going to follow up on a bunch of those questions. But first of all, when it comes to congestion pricing, you have said that you're open to a form of it. What would that plan need to look like for it to gain your support?

I don't have the parameters of it, but it would need to be a reasonable price, discounts that make sense, amount of money that comes back to Jersey, and a timetable that allows our commuters to look at what their options are. I think that's a reasonable By the way, what we've asked the federal judge is not We're not asking for the Moon. We're asking that he forced the federal administration to do an environmental impact study and we'll live with the results of that.

Have you had conversations, specifically with the Governor of New York, Kathy Hochel as well as the Mayor of New York about those issues, and if so, what was their response.

So we've got a great good news is we start in a very good place with our relationship with both Eric Adams and Kathy Hochel, and we do an enormous amount with both the city and the state together. Yes, we've spoken person to person, team the team. This has been a multi year process, and our ask has always been, let's do an environmental impact study and at the same time, let's get at the table together, and while that's playing itself out, let's talk about what the contours could be of a deal that we could all live with.

That this congestion pricing plan is more than just about the environment. It's obviously to leave a congestion as well. The idea that there are just a lot of folks coming into this city that you know, at least certain people think maybe shouldn't or they should take public transit into the city. If you don't have the congestion pricing. What is the solution to alleviate the traffic conditions?

So let me say first and foremost, And the MTA wrote this themselves, the number one objective here is to solve their fiscal hole. They've said that themselves. Don't take my word for it. While congestion and lowering pollution is a noble objective and it's certainly one of their objectives, it's one that the number one objective is to solve their fiscal hole. We've got the same challenge at NJ Transit. We've chosen to solve our problems within the four walls of New Jersey. We put in a corporate transit fee. While New Jersey Transit takes a few years to get back on their fiscal feet, which it will take, all the big transit systems, by the way, in the country are going through a similar reality.

We've found a fee which we.

Don't do lightly, that will allow a bridge to a better fiscal future for them. I don't know what the alternative is for the MTA, but I strongly would like to encourage them to pursue other avenues. As for New York City, we root for New York City. It's success in so many respects is our success. I don't know why, for the life of us, when people are working from home, we're still digging out from a pandemic, why New York City would want fewer people in New York City than more.

But that's not that's not my domain.

Let's go back to New Jersey Transit, which you've mentioned a couple of times. Commuters who rely on it very frustrated by the breakdowns, especially this past summer. You've pledged to fix the system even if it kills you, and you've mentioned this business tax, perhaps to support JT. You've also raised fares not so long ago. How much of this is simply a funding problem versus something bigger.

Well, it ultimately will be a big funding problem if we didn't if we did not find the solutions, and we have found the solutions, which are multi year, we did not raise fees fares. Rather, for six years longest stretch of fares not being raised ever in New Jersey transit, we just finally raised them this year. We put in place this corporate transit fee.

People.

I'm not making an excuse for what we're calling the summer of hell it was unacceptable to commuters, It was unacceptable to me period. In fact, we put a free week at the end of the summer just as a tip of the cap to the fact it was.

A miserable summer. But if you look at the.

Mess we inherited when we first got in office almost seven years ago, NJ Transit has made a lot of progress on on time performance, safety, customer satisfaction. We don't like anything on those less than one hundred percent, and we will keep fighting until we get there.

Remain mentioned congestion. Obviously, that's a big goal.

First time I've heard about that, the.

Gateway Tunnel project to build those two new tunnels under the Hudson River. Donald Trump halted federal funding during his first term. He stalled it. Basically, how concerned are you that these funds will be stalled once again or held up or pulled during the second Trumpet minute?

So to all the.

Funds are obligated, and that's a word with heavy definition around federal funding. So that's as close to cement as you get. But having said that, we've.

Found obligated and dispersed are two different things.

Yeah, but obligated is a big step. Obviously, This is an eight to ten year project, so you can't expect that they'll all be dispersed at the moment. Having said that, a big part of the project is the Portal North Bridge, green lit by Donald Trump as president in June of twenty twenty. I spoke to him last week that bridge is going to be complete next year, on time and under budget. I asked him if he'd come up and cut the ribbon with me. I don't want to speak for the president, but privately he said he'd very much like to do that. I think he's somebody who understands this region and understands how important infrastructure and moving people and stuff around is. So I'm at this moment with a high degree of confidence. It's a huge union job building trades source of tens of thousand. I think the President will be in the right place on this.

And you think you'll have a decent working relationship with them for.

The next year that you're an office.

We're gonna we're gonna fight on stuff well as we did. When I walk out of here in January of twenty sixth, I will have been the longest serving Democratic governor. Alongside Donald Trump as president. We've already done it. For three years, we fought like heck on where our values were challenged, our communities were assaulted or challenged, and will continue to do so. But that does not mean we will not aggressively look for common ground. I have a good relationship with him personally, and we'll continue to do both.

When you first ran for governor seven or eight years ago, you ran on a platform of bringing jobs and bringing companies to New Jersey. What has that progress been? And I am curious if you find yourself in competition with your neighboring states, primarily New York and I guess so a smaller extent Connecticut and attracting those companies and jobs.

Yeah.

So our story is a good one, but it's an incomplete We've made an enormous amount of progress on GDP growth, on job creation growth. Our unemployment numbers have been coming into a very good spot. We've got a lot of magnets in place that attract both companies and families. Number one public education system in America.

Do new companies want to set up shop?

You bet in New Jersey. You bet.

The one area where before we got here we had really lost our way as a state was the startup community, and that's now changing dramatically. We've got these strategic innovation hubs in a number of different fields. Venture capital, we were top three in the nation in the first half of this year, behind only California and New York. That's the one area in particular where we had a lot of wood to chop, and we've made a lot of progress. We're not there yet, We're not satisfied by any means, but a lot of good progress.

So FARMA has a strong foothold in New Jersey, and you're talking about startups as kind of the next big area.

Of growth for the state. You bet so.

Life science is one of the big innovation hubs is in New Brunswick. It's being built as we speak, called the Helix that will be a life science focused both big companies, big hospital systems Rutgers and Princeton with their research, as well as a big startup component.

Okay, one last question here. New Jersey has long been a true blue state, but Donald Trump won more votes in twenty twenty four than he did in twenty twenty and the state feels like it's shifting red. There are questions about whether New Jersey's next battleground state. I wonder if you could talk to that and also the single most important lesson that you think the Democratic Party must learn from the twenty four O.

Yeah, I don't see it as a battleground state. I just don't. That doesn't mean we're complacent about it for one second.

And you're absolutely right.

President Trump's margin was about five points in New Jersey. Joe Biden won New Jersey sixteen ish points. By the way, if you look at New Jersey, Illinois, Maryland, New York.

ALIPHOI concern you was a Democrat.

So the big blue states all shifted like that.

It concerns me.

Why did it shift though?

Do you know a whole number of reasons? I think twelve to fifteen individual reasons. It did not impact us down ballot. I would be hyper concerned, and I'm not saying complacent about this because I'm not. We have to be sober, look in the mirror, analyze what happened.

But I'd be really.

Panicked if it had a down ballot impact. It did not for the most part. I'll give you an example one Passaic County, big Latino and Muslim populations. By the way, he won that County Democrats had four county wide candidates, including two newbies.

They all won handily.

So the lessons we have to figure out where the lessons are, but we also have to figure out what was at the top of the ticket in lessons that were unique to the top of the ticket versus Democratic Party down ballot lessons.

What's the lesson that's worked for Democrats in New Jersey down ballot that didn't work at the top.

Be on the side of working families period. We're the number one state in America to raise a family. That's especially true for working families. Own that space, invest in it the present, and that has worked for us.

Some would say the Democrats did that certainly at the national level. I can't speak specifically to New Jersey. The issue wasn't whether they did that. The issue was how that was communicated to the voters. And I'm sure you know there are a lot of voters, both Democrats and Republicans alike, to look at the economy over the last four years and did not feel that that investment was there, at least from the Democratic Party.

Yeah, I mean, the notion is that it got too abstract, like nice, nice soundbites, but where is it for me? Inflation is still in the system. People are Look, that's the data point that I think matters the most. What am I paying for X today versus four years ago?

That's still the number one thing you hear from your residence.

I think the economy is still top of the list. It always has been, always will be. The fascinating reality in New Jersey and nationally both is that President Trump got some more votes in New Jersey than he got in twenty twenty. A lot fewer people voted on our side. That to me is the po both sat out the election. People sat on their hands, both nationally and in New Jersey, and that's something we have to get our arms around now. Twenty twenty was an all vote by mail election record turnout across the board, including in New Jersey. But that's to me, the big sobering. Why did you stay home with so much at stake? How come you sat this one out? That, to me is the question we need to get a crisp answer to.

So what is on your to do list as you get ready or as a state gets ready for elections next November to determine whether there's a democratic governor to follow you up or perhaps the Democratic a Republican governor takes her vice.

Yes, and so while we have not been a swing state at the presidential level or at the Senate US Senate level, we have been historically back and forth.

As governor. So we'll see how that plays out.

There's a crowded field on both sides of the aisle, a lot of talent running for governor, so we'll see how that works. I think in terms of us, more of the same. So number one public education system in America, keep investing in that, keep expanding pre K, make sure you're you continue to be top healthcare of top five healthcare state in America. A big clemency initiative. I want to do parole reform, more broadly, criminal justice reform. We got elected to grow the economy, but also to make it a fairer economy. Address those inequities. We'll continue to do a.

Lot of You only have about one year left in office months, so I assume you're going to be involved in politics. Posts your good natory.

I have no idea. I have no idea.

It sounds like it.

Launch public service.

Public service is something that I was an ambassador. It's something that that's important to me in the job of a lifetime has been Governor of New Jersey, so I love doing what I can do to serve the public.

Film Orphie, thank you so much.

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