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Since becoming CEO of Man Group, you've grown the firm's assets to about one hundred and seventy five billion.

Since becoming CEO of Man Group, you've grown the firm's assets to about one hundred and seventy five billion.

I believe what is your strategy to grow that from here?

I believe what is your strategy to grow that from here?

And how do you differentiate the firm in a very competitive environment for investor dollars?

And how do you differentiate the firm in a very competitive environment for investor dollars?

Thank you for having me. Good morning everyone. So this is a time when I think the alternative investment management space has everything to play for. It's a time when clients need us more. It's a time when we're coming out of this rather benign environment where you had, as asset holders, everything just held onto it and you'd be fine. We're now in states of volatility and dispersion, and so how do you grow? How do you service your clients when you're in you sure you're relevant to them, You know that they need more from you. The more diversified the content you have, the better for them, the more you're able to find solutions for them and answers for them that actually address the questions and the challenges that they are living through. And you do that by looking at your ability to have that orthogonal or uncorrelated content and capability that delivers returns to them through these different economic cycles that we're now living through. So how do you grow your assets? You listen to your clients, you make sure you're relevant to them, You grow your capabilities to deliver that to them. And it's hard work, but that's what you have to do.

Thank you for having me. Good morning everyone. So this is a time when I think the alternative investment management space has everything to play for. It's a time when clients need us more. It's a time when we're coming out of this rather benign environment where you had, as asset holders, everything just held onto it and you'd be fine. We're now in states of volatility and dispersion, and so how do you grow? How do you service your clients when you're in you sure you're relevant to them, You know that they need more from you. The more diversified the content you have, the better for them, the more you're able to find solutions for them and answers for them that actually address the questions and the challenges that they are living through. And you do that by looking at your ability to have that orthogonal or uncorrelated content and capability that delivers returns to them through these different economic cycles that we're now living through. So how do you grow your assets? You listen to your clients, you make sure you're relevant to them, You grow your capabilities to deliver that to them. And it's hard work, but that's what you have to do.

How important is scale and what are you hearing from them on that front?

How important is scale and what are you hearing from them on that front?

There's definitely a consolidation. There's a consolidation both at allocators but also at investment managers. That thing where you say, I need to face fewer manager who can help me do more, So that consolidation is there. So scale matters in the sense of being able to deliver all of that capability to them, and it matters in the way that you build your organization so you are able to deliver what you deliver without reducing the alpha that you've captured. So it's no good finding this very elusive thing called alpha and outperformance only to lose it through your own inefficiencies. So scale and capability you're operating platform, which might not sound the most exciting thing for us all to talk about but happens to be incredibly important. Is the thing that I think is important in that scale debate or that conversation too. So can you deliver what you have at scale efficiently and return as much ALPHA two clients as possible without losing it through your own inefficiencies?

There's definitely a consolidation. There's a consolidation both at allocators but also at investment managers. That thing where you say, I need to face fewer manager who can help me do more, So that consolidation is there. So scale matters in the sense of being able to deliver all of that capability to them, and it matters in the way that you build your organization so you are able to deliver what you deliver without reducing the alpha that you've captured. So it's no good finding this very elusive thing called alpha and outperformance only to lose it through your own inefficiencies. So scale and capability you're operating platform, which might not sound the most exciting thing for us all to talk about but happens to be incredibly important. Is the thing that I think is important in that scale debate or that conversation too. So can you deliver what you have at scale efficiently and return as much ALPHA two clients as possible without losing it through your own inefficiencies?

And does that mean diversification too, I mean in terms of something people are really seeking with that skilled Yeah.

And does that mean diversification too, I mean in terms of something people are really seeking with that skilled Yeah.

I think that's right. The answer for many people right now is to have a portfolio constructed in a way that navigates these ups and downs. And in some instances you're going to see there's a tendency perhaps to think of us all as trying to pitch one thing or one thing only you know, here's a fund, and you should buy my fund. I'm not sure it should work like that anymore. I think as you think about portfolios, you should think about what you're trying to achieve through time. So there's a temporal issue here, there's a cycle issue here, there's a longevity issue here, there's a scale issue here, And normally you want to think about a portfolio that does something that is capable of thinking about all of those different inflection points. So you know, I'm not a passive player, but is passive a part of a portfolio? For sure? I'm not a private equity investor. Do I think the private equity has a role to play in a portfolio? Yes, I think there are plenty of things that need to happen in between those things in the alternative investment space as well.

I think that's right. The answer for many people right now is to have a portfolio constructed in a way that navigates these ups and downs. And in some instances you're going to see there's a tendency perhaps to think of us all as trying to pitch one thing or one thing only you know, here's a fund, and you should buy my fund. I'm not sure it should work like that anymore. I think as you think about portfolios, you should think about what you're trying to achieve through time. So there's a temporal issue here, there's a cycle issue here, there's a longevity issue here, there's a scale issue here, And normally you want to think about a portfolio that does something that is capable of thinking about all of those different inflection points. So you know, I'm not a passive player, but is passive a part of a portfolio? For sure? I'm not a private equity investor. Do I think the private equity has a role to play in a portfolio? Yes, I think there are plenty of things that need to happen in between those things in the alternative investment space as well.

With that in mind, what do you see happening in the environment for fees? I mean you brought up pathsive, I mean what's your outlook for margins through a bit?

With that in mind, what do you see happening in the environment for fees? I mean you brought up pathsive, I mean what's your outlook for margins through a bit?

I think the reality is in the highly commoditized liquid spaces. I think long only equities there is definitely fee pressure in that space, but not all things are created equal. So if you are a passive player, you'll pay a certain level of fees, but if you're an active long only player, you'll have something different and there is no direction of travel there. So there's a sense that saying are all clients moving from active to passive? Answer? No, are some clients moving active passive? Yes, there are some clients and allocators moving passive to active. Absolutely. The more you go through into active or alternative investment management, the more you're trying to find and have outperformance. Clients pay for that. They also pay for and are willing to sit at the table with you as you provide them with solutions. So a shape of problem looks like this, how do we come up with something that fits that With you, that partnership of providing content that is able to fit a portfolio. I think it's more than that as well. I think clients want to work with you when you deliver more than just your investment capabilities. We're in a world where we also have a part of our business at Man Group, where we have been allocators. We have had a fun of fun business for thirty odd years. We have tools that we have used ourselves that our clients can now benefit from in portfolio construction and risk management. You're delivering much more of your organizations to your clients, and if you're not able to I think that's a challenge, and I think clients should want that. I think allocators should want to sit at the table with you, and they should ask you for more and you should be able to deliver that to them.

I think the reality is in the highly commoditized liquid spaces. I think long only equities there is definitely fee pressure in that space, but not all things are created equal. So if you are a passive player, you'll pay a certain level of fees, but if you're an active long only player, you'll have something different and there is no direction of travel there. So there's a sense that saying are all clients moving from active to passive? Answer? No, are some clients moving active passive? Yes, there are some clients and allocators moving passive to active. Absolutely. The more you go through into active or alternative investment management, the more you're trying to find and have outperformance. Clients pay for that. They also pay for and are willing to sit at the table with you as you provide them with solutions. So a shape of problem looks like this, how do we come up with something that fits that With you, that partnership of providing content that is able to fit a portfolio. I think it's more than that as well. I think clients want to work with you when you deliver more than just your investment capabilities. We're in a world where we also have a part of our business at Man Group, where we have been allocators. We have had a fun of fun business for thirty odd years. We have tools that we have used ourselves that our clients can now benefit from in portfolio construction and risk management. You're delivering much more of your organizations to your clients, and if you're not able to I think that's a challenge, and I think clients should want that. I think allocators should want to sit at the table with you, and they should ask you for more and you should be able to deliver that to them.

So you brought up consolidation in the asset management space.

So you brought up consolidation in the asset management space.

Man does have a.

Man does have a.

History of being acquisitive, and it's well very long, more than two hundred and forty year history. Yes, yes, And last year you bought a stake at are credit firm.

History of being acquisitive, and it's well very long, more than two hundred and forty year history. Yes, yes, And last year you bought a stake at are credit firm.

I do believe correct.

I do believe correct.

I mean, there's a lot happening in the space. What are you, how do you see participating in it?

I mean, there's a lot happening in the space. What are you, how do you see participating in it?

What are you? Are you interested in buying anything else?

What are you? Are you interested in buying anything else?

Yes? Is the short and I guess so. Acquisitions that absolutely have been part of Man Group's history. It's something we think we do well, and we do it well because we have some very clear guidelines on how we think about it. We think about it as something that again I'm going to sound a bit like a Breaken record, but it's about having additional content and capability. It's about providing war to clients. And so when we transacted and we bought Varragan, we wanted a private credit capability. This was a business that was tremendously exciting sponsored about middle market lending in the US. It's a great point in the cycle. It's a scale of business with a tremendous culture which can benefit from the operating capabilities that we have at Man Group. You're going to find us thinking about opportunities like that, but you will also find us growing organically our business. So you know, between our private and public credit business, we're north than thirty billion dollars and you can see that that matters to clients. You know when I talk about clients all the time, because they feed both how smart we can be. You know, the danger is if you think that we can all turn up and sit at the table and come up with the singularly brilliant idea. That'd be great, and maybe we can do that from time to time. But actually the benefit is to have the brightest minds in the room, and that's between my firm and with everybody that we work for and with to come up with that nugget of brilliance. And in listening to clients and being responsive to clients, it's about growing content capability, asset class that can answer their questions and be part of answering some of the navigation points we have today. It isn't straightforward out there. So we're going to see man group will grow through organic growth through aqua hires. If we can find acquisitions that are genuinely additive to us and a creative to us and to our clients, will do that. But it's a constant thing that you need to have at the front of your mind.

Yes? Is the short and I guess so. Acquisitions that absolutely have been part of Man Group's history. It's something we think we do well, and we do it well because we have some very clear guidelines on how we think about it. We think about it as something that again I'm going to sound a bit like a Breaken record, but it's about having additional content and capability. It's about providing war to clients. And so when we transacted and we bought Varragan, we wanted a private credit capability. This was a business that was tremendously exciting sponsored about middle market lending in the US. It's a great point in the cycle. It's a scale of business with a tremendous culture which can benefit from the operating capabilities that we have at Man Group. You're going to find us thinking about opportunities like that, but you will also find us growing organically our business. So you know, between our private and public credit business, we're north than thirty billion dollars and you can see that that matters to clients. You know when I talk about clients all the time, because they feed both how smart we can be. You know, the danger is if you think that we can all turn up and sit at the table and come up with the singularly brilliant idea. That'd be great, and maybe we can do that from time to time. But actually the benefit is to have the brightest minds in the room, and that's between my firm and with everybody that we work for and with to come up with that nugget of brilliance. And in listening to clients and being responsive to clients, it's about growing content capability, asset class that can answer their questions and be part of answering some of the navigation points we have today. It isn't straightforward out there. So we're going to see man group will grow through organic growth through aqua hires. If we can find acquisitions that are genuinely additive to us and a creative to us and to our clients, will do that. But it's a constant thing that you need to have at the front of your mind.

So as you look across your business, I mean, what products are you would you be most interested in potentially growing through acquisition.

So as you look across your business, I mean, what products are you would you be most interested in potentially growing through acquisition.

Are there gaps that you see you'd like to build or.

Are there gaps that you see you'd like to build or.

I think that it's a great question. It's one of those ones though that suggests that somehow there's a menu from which I can choose from at any opportune time. Wouldn't that be nice? That doesn't work like that, unless if you know better, please let me know. So it is about assessing what's out there today and what's available at the right multiple, right price, with the right scale, with the right culture. What I will tell you is it won't be something that we currently do. It will be something that adds uncorrelated content or capability for us. And when I say for us, I mean for clients. So what would I be interested in looking forward to? I like credit. I think credits a cracking opportunity still out there. Can I grow it? Yes? Could I buy it? If I can find the right thing? For sure? What I won't be after in this space is something which you can't scale. I think that there are very smart people in this audience today, and very smart people sitting in my firm, and we can all get quite excited by smaller niche businesses that do really funky and fantastic things. We can all be slightly distracted by them, and it's brilliant. By the way. It's not to suggest they're not valuable, but if you can't deploy them at scale, that's less good for allocators who are trying to put money to work. It's about having discipline in this place, in this space, as much as anything else.

I think that it's a great question. It's one of those ones though that suggests that somehow there's a menu from which I can choose from at any opportune time. Wouldn't that be nice? That doesn't work like that, unless if you know better, please let me know. So it is about assessing what's out there today and what's available at the right multiple, right price, with the right scale, with the right culture. What I will tell you is it won't be something that we currently do. It will be something that adds uncorrelated content or capability for us. And when I say for us, I mean for clients. So what would I be interested in looking forward to? I like credit. I think credits a cracking opportunity still out there. Can I grow it? Yes? Could I buy it? If I can find the right thing? For sure? What I won't be after in this space is something which you can't scale. I think that there are very smart people in this audience today, and very smart people sitting in my firm, and we can all get quite excited by smaller niche businesses that do really funky and fantastic things. We can all be slightly distracted by them, and it's brilliant. By the way. It's not to suggest they're not valuable, but if you can't deploy them at scale, that's less good for allocators who are trying to put money to work. It's about having discipline in this place, in this space, as much as anything else.

What about man group itself as a potential target?

What about man group itself as a potential target?

What do you think? I think that I sit in this rarefied position of the CEO of this business and it's a cracking business. It's been around for a while you just mentioned, and my job, apart from anything, is to make sure that it is around for a lot longer. It is full of smart, capable people. We have a diversity of content that is exciting and provides answers. So my focus is less on that question and much more on how I continue to grow this business. I do not come into work every day and think, I know, is somebody going to knock on a door to day. I come into work every day and I think what can I do for my clients?

What do you think? I think that I sit in this rarefied position of the CEO of this business and it's a cracking business. It's been around for a while you just mentioned, and my job, apart from anything, is to make sure that it is around for a lot longer. It is full of smart, capable people. We have a diversity of content that is exciting and provides answers. So my focus is less on that question and much more on how I continue to grow this business. I do not come into work every day and think, I know, is somebody going to knock on a door to day. I come into work every day and I think what can I do for my clients?

So you brought up the people we've talked about, the competition for assets, how fierce are.

So you brought up the people we've talked about, the competition for assets, how fierce are.

Competition right now for talent in your business?

Competition right now for talent in your business?

Huge? Massive? It's always going to be that way. The competition is in every part. If you want the very best people, you have to recognize that you have to provide them with an environment and a space and an offer that makes them feel great about coming into work every day. So the competition is fierce. But actually I feel quite good about Man's positioning. So from a discretional fundamental investing perspective, you know, do the platforms have you an attention of war, of a tug of war of great capability? Absolutely? But are the things that make it different? Is this just about money at the end of the day. Listen, we work in financial services. There's a value proposition here that everybody lives with. But I would wager that most people in this audience, if not everybody could go and get another job tomorrow. Maybe they could go and get a slight increase in their comp tomorrow, But most people in this audience will also think about the culture they want to live in, the value set they're alongside, whether they can grow their capability in their business. If you're an investor, whether you have sources of capital that come from more than one place. You'll think about the tech that you have, the operating platform you have, the access to clients you have. You'll think about whether you want a global stage or not. In other words, this talent piece is not a binary thing either. If you're a technologist, you like dealing. My experience, we have about six hundred and fifty of them self identified technologists in some form or other quants or data scientists or models or developers. They love being and having access to the very best technology. They want to be put in a box, and they love solving real world problems and challenges. That's what we do every day when we come to work. So you're giving the brightest minds the best capability to solve real world issues that are very very hard. That's exciting. And if you do so in man group in the way that we do, which is in an open architected way. So there's this thing called GitHub. If you haven't seen it, go look it up. It's quite exciting. Technologies is get very excited about it. So GitHub is effectively like it's like one of those things where you do travelosity thing, you know, that sort of you assess whether something's been good or not, and you get stars and ratings by how much you've shared in this open architected world. And the GitHub rating for man Group is ridiculously high for an asset manager. I mean it's higher than most investment banks. That's because our developers are out there in that community, in an open architected space, getting access to the smartest minds to fix real problems. So it's a long winded way of answering a question, which is is the competition fears for talent? Yes? But is there are really the exciting opportunity set in there where if you want to attract the brightest and the best and retain them and inspire them because we need them to do our job every day, you can do that.

Huge? Massive? It's always going to be that way. The competition is in every part. If you want the very best people, you have to recognize that you have to provide them with an environment and a space and an offer that makes them feel great about coming into work every day. So the competition is fierce. But actually I feel quite good about Man's positioning. So from a discretional fundamental investing perspective, you know, do the platforms have you an attention of war, of a tug of war of great capability? Absolutely? But are the things that make it different? Is this just about money at the end of the day. Listen, we work in financial services. There's a value proposition here that everybody lives with. But I would wager that most people in this audience, if not everybody could go and get another job tomorrow. Maybe they could go and get a slight increase in their comp tomorrow, But most people in this audience will also think about the culture they want to live in, the value set they're alongside, whether they can grow their capability in their business. If you're an investor, whether you have sources of capital that come from more than one place. You'll think about the tech that you have, the operating platform you have, the access to clients you have. You'll think about whether you want a global stage or not. In other words, this talent piece is not a binary thing either. If you're a technologist, you like dealing. My experience, we have about six hundred and fifty of them self identified technologists in some form or other quants or data scientists or models or developers. They love being and having access to the very best technology. They want to be put in a box, and they love solving real world problems and challenges. That's what we do every day when we come to work. So you're giving the brightest minds the best capability to solve real world issues that are very very hard. That's exciting. And if you do so in man group in the way that we do, which is in an open architected way. So there's this thing called GitHub. If you haven't seen it, go look it up. It's quite exciting. Technologies is get very excited about it. So GitHub is effectively like it's like one of those things where you do travelosity thing, you know, that sort of you assess whether something's been good or not, and you get stars and ratings by how much you've shared in this open architected world. And the GitHub rating for man Group is ridiculously high for an asset manager. I mean it's higher than most investment banks. That's because our developers are out there in that community, in an open architected space, getting access to the smartest minds to fix real problems. So it's a long winded way of answering a question, which is is the competition fears for talent? Yes? But is there are really the exciting opportunity set in there where if you want to attract the brightest and the best and retain them and inspire them because we need them to do our job every day, you can do that.

So you brought up technology, and obviously Man has a long history and it's very much known for its technology. I mean, how are you thinking ab about AI both changing the investment industry right now and specifically Man going forward?

So you brought up technology, and obviously Man has a long history and it's very much known for its technology. I mean, how are you thinking ab about AI both changing the investment industry right now and specifically Man going forward?

So AI we sort of started to talk about it like it's a brand new thing, haven't we. It's just not a brand new thing. There's a bit offer at Man Group at the moment, whether it's ten to fifteen years that we've been using AI. So not you chat GPT. That's a newish thing we have now man GPT. That's very you can tell who may be named that with those technologies aren't necessarily good at exciting new names anyway, So man GPT, and we use any advanced tech chnology. But we've been using machine learning. We have this a relationship and have had a long relationship with Oxford University Oxford Man Institute, where we've been at the forefront of machine learning and AI. More generally, we use NLP, we use large language models. We are looking at lots of efficiency that come out of this generative AI space. You'll hear about copiloting. Let's be clear, when you have copiloting, you effectively allow the AI to help you develop your coding. Right our pick up level or probably about twenty percent of that that's suggested in the copilot coding. Okay, just by wherever reference point? Does it help you combine nonlinear signals more quickly and more effectively than you've been able to before? Yeah? Does it allow you to have smarter sentiment analysis? Absolutely? Do we have robotics through our operations functions? Uh huh, Yeah. I can give you any number of different use cases of how we deploy this technology, all away from actually the other stuff we do, which is looking at data signals, looking at TICK capability, looking at the ability to find alpha a new markets or more opportunities in that space. What I'm telling you, though, is not making investment decision.

So AI we sort of started to talk about it like it's a brand new thing, haven't we. It's just not a brand new thing. There's a bit offer at Man Group at the moment, whether it's ten to fifteen years that we've been using AI. So not you chat GPT. That's a newish thing we have now man GPT. That's very you can tell who may be named that with those technologies aren't necessarily good at exciting new names anyway, So man GPT, and we use any advanced tech chnology. But we've been using machine learning. We have this a relationship and have had a long relationship with Oxford University Oxford Man Institute, where we've been at the forefront of machine learning and AI. More generally, we use NLP, we use large language models. We are looking at lots of efficiency that come out of this generative AI space. You'll hear about copiloting. Let's be clear, when you have copiloting, you effectively allow the AI to help you develop your coding. Right our pick up level or probably about twenty percent of that that's suggested in the copilot coding. Okay, just by wherever reference point? Does it help you combine nonlinear signals more quickly and more effectively than you've been able to before? Yeah? Does it allow you to have smarter sentiment analysis? Absolutely? Do we have robotics through our operations functions? Uh huh, Yeah. I can give you any number of different use cases of how we deploy this technology, all away from actually the other stuff we do, which is looking at data signals, looking at TICK capability, looking at the ability to find alpha a new markets or more opportunities in that space. What I'm telling you, though, is not making investment decision.

What are its limitations? From your stain.

What are its limitations? From your stain.

Point, there are a few of them, right, I mean, let's know. The wonderful thing about having six one hundred and fifty plus technologists and thirty five years of heritage in this space is you have really skilled people who know both the capabilities of these tools and also know the limitations, and that's incredibly important. You've probably heard of hallucination, and in this context, not in the context you might have heard of it in a desert, but within this context too. So the interesting thing about generative AI is it wants to please you. It's a bit like a puppy, you know, if you would throw it a stick, it goes and collects the stick and it comes back so and then you say, but this is the wrong stick, and it goes, okay, I'll go and find you another stick and goes against you another stick, and they say, no, it's still wrong stick. Off it goes again. It does that, so it fills gaps for you. I suppose the way I think about it is this that there are tremendous skills and capabilities in technology that have been developed for other industries. You have the most extraordinary neurosurgeons out there using these most skilled tools now which reduce the margins of error. However good that technology in that capability is you still do not want me operating on you? I would suggest that would be a bad outcome for you and probably for me. The skill of these tools is to be able to put them in the hands of people who understand them, who can use them and understand their limitations. So are we excited by new tools every day of the week? Will there be a next one? You know, a new one next year and the year after, and will we adop them for sure? Do I have high confidence in the people that I have sitting at man group who know how to use them for the benefit of our clients and know when to stop using them because they no longer provide benefit every day?

Point, there are a few of them, right, I mean, let's know. The wonderful thing about having six one hundred and fifty plus technologists and thirty five years of heritage in this space is you have really skilled people who know both the capabilities of these tools and also know the limitations, and that's incredibly important. You've probably heard of hallucination, and in this context, not in the context you might have heard of it in a desert, but within this context too. So the interesting thing about generative AI is it wants to please you. It's a bit like a puppy, you know, if you would throw it a stick, it goes and collects the stick and it comes back so and then you say, but this is the wrong stick, and it goes, okay, I'll go and find you another stick and goes against you another stick, and they say, no, it's still wrong stick. Off it goes again. It does that, so it fills gaps for you. I suppose the way I think about it is this that there are tremendous skills and capabilities in technology that have been developed for other industries. You have the most extraordinary neurosurgeons out there using these most skilled tools now which reduce the margins of error. However good that technology in that capability is you still do not want me operating on you? I would suggest that would be a bad outcome for you and probably for me. The skill of these tools is to be able to put them in the hands of people who understand them, who can use them and understand their limitations. So are we excited by new tools every day of the week? Will there be a next one? You know, a new one next year and the year after, and will we adop them for sure? Do I have high confidence in the people that I have sitting at man group who know how to use them for the benefit of our clients and know when to stop using them because they no longer provide benefit every day?

So as you think about your at work, and this is our last question here, I know we're running ot.

So as you think about your at work, and this is our last question here, I know we're running ot.

Of time for next year.

Of time for next year.

Yeah, what are what are the biggest risks to the upside and the downside From your perspective.

Yeah, what are what are the biggest risks to the upside and the downside From your perspective.

I think that I think it's it's again, it's that it's a fabulous question that makes me sound like I can predict a market, which none of us have been able to do across the entire market, across the entire space. I suppose what I think is more important is that we are looking down the lens of a space where we've had a lot of speculative issues this year. We have a little bit more certainty next year. So you know, half the world's population went to the Western world went to the polls this year. We had this tiny election in November, tiny tiny. You know, we've got still some major conflicts raging. As we look through to twenty five, maybe we have some more certainty, we have more clarity about what policy might come through. You've certainly have some You certainly had some planning that's been set out most recently in the US, which is going to be instructive. But to suggest I know where the market's going to go, can't do that for you can tell you it's all of our jobs to ensure that we are prepared to navigate what we see coming forward, and for me and for Man Group, it's about ensuring that we do our very best job to return outperformance to our clients through whatever the market cycles bring

I think that I think it's it's again, it's that it's a fabulous question that makes me sound like I can predict a market, which none of us have been able to do across the entire market, across the entire space. I suppose what I think is more important is that we are looking down the lens of a space where we've had a lot of speculative issues this year. We have a little bit more certainty next year. So you know, half the world's population went to the Western world went to the polls this year. We had this tiny election in November, tiny tiny. You know, we've got still some major conflicts raging. As we look through to twenty five, maybe we have some more certainty, we have more clarity about what policy might come through. You've certainly have some You certainly had some planning that's been set out most recently in the US, which is going to be instructive. But to suggest I know where the market's going to go, can't do that for you can tell you it's all of our jobs to ensure that we are prepared to navigate what we see coming forward, and for me and for Man Group, it's about ensuring that we do our very best job to return outperformance to our clients through whatever the market cycles bring