Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at seven am Eastern on Apple CarPlay or Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at seven am Eastern on Apple CarPlay or Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

This is a joy because we keep very much track of people with short Oh, Mike Green, I'm sorry, we got breaking news. You're gonna be on for a minute and a half. So this morning, I don't care if there's breaking news now, we're not gonna go to it. We're gonna go to Mike Green here to get some good, good analysis about what's going on. Of course, with Simplify asset management, I look at the Washington postfeed, the New York Times feed. It's nuts out there. How do you synthesize the chaos over into just remain calm to execute investment process?

This is a joy because we keep very much track of people with short Oh, Mike Green, I'm sorry, we got breaking news. You're gonna be on for a minute and a half. So this morning, I don't care if there's breaking news now, we're not gonna go to it. We're gonna go to Mike Green here to get some good, good analysis about what's going on. Of course, with Simplify asset management, I look at the Washington postfeed, the New York Times feed. It's nuts out there. How do you synthesize the chaos over into just remain calm to execute investment process?

Well, I think all of us are kind of hoping that that chaos that you're describing is just the flurry of blows that comes out from an aggressive boxer in the first round, and that eventually it settles down. But it is remarkable when you kind of look at what's happening We used to wake up to market volatility and look to the politics to explain it, and instead today we're looking at political volatility and the markets remain totally sanguine.

Well, I think all of us are kind of hoping that that chaos that you're describing is just the flurry of blows that comes out from an aggressive boxer in the first round, and that eventually it settles down. But it is remarkable when you kind of look at what's happening We used to wake up to market volatility and look to the politics to explain it, and instead today we're looking at political volatility and the markets remain totally sanguine.

I think a lot of it is just we don't know what to do, right may I look at it. I don't know if you know this, but Lisa's newspapers at the back end of the seven o'clock hour that's funded by an NGO, a government thing, and the answer is like, even NGOs, our guests are unfunded right now.

I think a lot of it is just we don't know what to do, right may I look at it. I don't know if you know this, but Lisa's newspapers at the back end of the seven o'clock hour that's funded by an NGO, a government thing, and the answer is like, even NGOs, our guests are unfunded right now.

Yeah, so this is the key question. Now, a federal judge just put a stay on this for a week. We'll find out on Monday what the ultimate decision is around this, or at least what the next step in the process. But yeah, this decision to stop funding the NGOs, et cetera, in pursue of basically making sure that Trump's executive orders are enforced. It's gonna be one of many questions. We don't know how many payrolls camp be met. We don't know how many different firms are ultimately going to be affected by this, how many commercial real estate properties that are currently housing people are suddenly going to be faced with their bills on paid.

Yeah, so this is the key question. Now, a federal judge just put a stay on this for a week. We'll find out on Monday what the ultimate decision is around this, or at least what the next step in the process. But yeah, this decision to stop funding the NGOs, et cetera, in pursue of basically making sure that Trump's executive orders are enforced. It's gonna be one of many questions. We don't know how many payrolls camp be met. We don't know how many different firms are ultimately going to be affected by this, how many commercial real estate properties that are currently housing people are suddenly going to be faced with their bills on paid.

We just don't know is.

We just don't know is.

The best advice for an investor to try to ignore the noise and focus on the fundamentals. Where we have earnings this week, maybe that's really what matters.

The best advice for an investor to try to ignore the noise and focus on the fundamentals. Where we have earnings this week, maybe that's really what matters.

Well, we do have earnings, and I heard earlier the commentary about, you know, we're excited that ASML's orders are off the charts. But remember ASML's reporting off of a December quarter deep seat came out on this this past week, we've also known that this was kind of the case, right. This is very much like the development of you know, multiple signals and amplification that happened in fiber optics that change the tone around fiber optics.

Well, we do have earnings, and I heard earlier the commentary about, you know, we're excited that ASML's orders are off the charts. But remember ASML's reporting off of a December quarter deep seat came out on this this past week, we've also known that this was kind of the case, right. This is very much like the development of you know, multiple signals and amplification that happened in fiber optics that change the tone around fiber optics.

I got to go here. Alisa helped me out here, T mobiles out well, Lisa's one of Lisa's entourage, whispered in my ear, go to our inn T mobile. I mean it's plus plus two twenty one and it's up seven.

I got to go here. Alisa helped me out here, T mobiles out well, Lisa's one of Lisa's entourage, whispered in my ear, go to our inn T mobile. I mean it's plus plus two twenty one and it's up seven.

Dollars now, yeah, earning smash expectations for it. So I wanted to look, let's check in Core.

Dollars now, yeah, earning smash expectations for it. So I wanted to look, let's check in Core.

Do you know I pay a mortgage payment to remember Vince Ferrell. Vince Ferrell was just such a great supporter of Bloomberg surveillance. I miss him every day. We lost Vince Ferrell way too long. We used to sit in tears in the radio studio with Ken Pruitt and try to figure out how many children their phone bills we were paying and with t good Morning tea mobile mortgage payment? Help, Pa? Why did you keep us going with Mike cream? Hey Mike, So we sit here.

Do you know I pay a mortgage payment to remember Vince Ferrell. Vince Ferrell was just such a great supporter of Bloomberg surveillance. I miss him every day. We lost Vince Ferrell way too long. We used to sit in tears in the radio studio with Ken Pruitt and try to figure out how many children their phone bills we were paying and with t good Morning tea mobile mortgage payment? Help, Pa? Why did you keep us going with Mike cream? Hey Mike, So we sit here.

We had twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four both north of twenty percent returns on the S and P five hundred. How do you think about twenty twenty five going into the year? I mean, should we just temper that and hope for a single digit return? How do you think about it?

We had twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four both north of twenty percent returns on the S and P five hundred. How do you think about twenty twenty five going into the year? I mean, should we just temper that and hope for a single digit return? How do you think about it?

Well, I'm often reminded of an event in late nineteen ninety nine when I asked my mother in law, you know, she'd had a phenomenal nineteen ninety nine. I said, you know what if stocks were up fifteen percent in two thousand, would you be surprised? Yeah, I'd be really surprised. I'm like, well, then why not take something off the table? And her reaction was, I'd be very surprised if they were only up fifteen perccon right, So we're if you actually look at what's happening in the market on a year to day basis, a lot of the not mag seven stocks in videos, the non in videos instead.

Well, I'm often reminded of an event in late nineteen ninety nine when I asked my mother in law, you know, she'd had a phenomenal nineteen ninety nine. I said, you know what if stocks were up fifteen percent in two thousand, would you be surprised? Yeah, I'd be really surprised. I'm like, well, then why not take something off the table? And her reaction was, I'd be very surprised if they were only up fifteen perccon right, So we're if you actually look at what's happening in the market on a year to day basis, a lot of the not mag seven stocks in videos, the non in videos instead.

Of the world, they're up sharply.

Of the world, they're up sharply.

The Dow is up almost eight percent ye before the first month of the year is out of the way, so it's hard to argue this is going to be another calumn year.

The Dow is up almost eight percent ye before the first month of the year is out of the way, so it's hard to argue this is going to be another calumn year.

We're going to hear from the Fed today Tom Keen and the Surrounds team of full coverage starting a one thirty pm Wall Street time. What do you should we expect anything from the Fed this year or just kind of sit on the signlines and follow the data.

We're going to hear from the Fed today Tom Keen and the Surrounds team of full coverage starting a one thirty pm Wall Street time. What do you should we expect anything from the Fed this year or just kind of sit on the signlines and follow the data.

You know, this is we definitely want to follow the data. But one of the things that I think is really critically is the market is only pricing about a ten percent probability of a cut at this meeting. They're pricing very low probability of the idea of a hike throughout the year. That's backed off since obviously in video. But if we look at that commentary that's going to come out, this is where we're really going to find out what the Fed is thinking. Agree, So we aren't going to know what the press release. We know what's going to happen the market. The FED is not going to surprise the market there. Whether Palell chooses to react to the first week of the Trump administration in terms of answering questions, implications of it, inflation concerns, we genuinely just don't know.

You know, this is we definitely want to follow the data. But one of the things that I think is really critically is the market is only pricing about a ten percent probability of a cut at this meeting. They're pricing very low probability of the idea of a hike throughout the year. That's backed off since obviously in video. But if we look at that commentary that's going to come out, this is where we're really going to find out what the Fed is thinking. Agree, So we aren't going to know what the press release. We know what's going to happen the market. The FED is not going to surprise the market there. Whether Palell chooses to react to the first week of the Trump administration in terms of answering questions, implications of it, inflation concerns, we genuinely just don't know.

I totally agree, totally agree. I just I just refuse to believe it's a snooze fest with all that's going on politically, and why you to treat Mike Green with us to simplify, we continue here an extended conversation to begin at your day. Many other worthies coming up at the FED meeting and on the equity markets. Cam Dawson will be with us later as well. The nastic Paul up four tenths of a percent right now.

I totally agree, totally agree. I just I just refuse to believe it's a snooze fest with all that's going on politically, and why you to treat Mike Green with us to simplify, we continue here an extended conversation to begin at your day. Many other worthies coming up at the FED meeting and on the equity markets. Cam Dawson will be with us later as well. The nastic Paul up four tenths of a percent right now.

So, Michael, what do you expect here for earnings? If if I've got a FED that's going to be the kind of quiecent we're going to say for twenty twenty five, maybe one, maybe two great rate cuts. That puts a lot of pressure on earnings, doesn't it.

So, Michael, what do you expect here for earnings? If if I've got a FED that's going to be the kind of quiecent we're going to say for twenty twenty five, maybe one, maybe two great rate cuts. That puts a lot of pressure on earnings, doesn't it.

It does put pressure on earnings. And one of the most important areas that puts pressure on earnings is actually from not the leading companies, those companies that are flush and cash, et cetera, but those companies that are now facing refinancing. So if we look at things like the high Yield Index, we've actually seen credit spreads compress. Many of these companies have not refinanced that paper from the twenty twenty twenty twenty one time period. You're now approaching that maturity wall. And when these companies refinanced, even though credit spreads are tight, the absolute level of interest rates are a lot higher. So in many of these companies, you're talking about going from four to four and a half percent coupons to seven to seven and a half or eight percent coupons.

It does put pressure on earnings. And one of the most important areas that puts pressure on earnings is actually from not the leading companies, those companies that are flush and cash, et cetera, but those companies that are now facing refinancing. So if we look at things like the high Yield Index, we've actually seen credit spreads compress. Many of these companies have not refinanced that paper from the twenty twenty twenty twenty one time period. You're now approaching that maturity wall. And when these companies refinanced, even though credit spreads are tight, the absolute level of interest rates are a lot higher. So in many of these companies, you're talking about going from four to four and a half percent coupons to seven to seven and a half or eight percent coupons.

Ma Green, how do you perceive Apple? On Monday, we had a total full scale panic and everybody turned to Cooper Tino and said, they're not doing the capex ballet. Is that a heritage from Steve Jobs? Is that a Tim Cook thing? Or is it blind luck Well.

Ma Green, how do you perceive Apple? On Monday, we had a total full scale panic and everybody turned to Cooper Tino and said, they're not doing the capex ballet. Is that a heritage from Steve Jobs? Is that a Tim Cook thing? Or is it blind luck Well.

I think it's a combination of components. So Apple has always been a capital intensive, light business. They've always chosen to outsource their manufacturing while keeping control of their intellectual property. But I think the much more important message is nobody lost their job on Monday, and so four oh one k flows continue to come into the markets. Esters are continuing to pile in. A lot of this is a function of the autopilot of the way that we've set up flows into our system. When people are working, they're contributing to the stock market. That money is flowing into an index fund, and guess what that index fund is buying?

I think it's a combination of components. So Apple has always been a capital intensive, light business. They've always chosen to outsource their manufacturing while keeping control of their intellectual property. But I think the much more important message is nobody lost their job on Monday, and so four oh one k flows continue to come into the markets. Esters are continuing to pile in. A lot of this is a function of the autopilot of the way that we've set up flows into our system. When people are working, they're contributing to the stock market. That money is flowing into an index fund, and guess what that index fund is buying?

Spring training February nine. The Dodgers play in Tokyo, so they started early spring training. What inning are we in, Mike Grain, of this bull market?

Spring training February nine. The Dodgers play in Tokyo, so they started early spring training. What inning are we in, Mike Grain, of this bull market?

I have thought we've been in extended innings for an extended period of time. A typical bear market bowl market lasts for between three and five years, so we're probably getting towards the end of it.

I have thought we've been in extended innings for an extended period of time. A typical bear market bowl market lasts for between three and five years, so we're probably getting towards the end of it.

Am I yet.

Am I yet.

Ready to call my mother in law and say you.

Ready to call my mother in law and say you.

Must get out? Not quite. So.

Must get out? Not quite. So.

We had some news earlier about this whole China AI thing, and we're all trying to learn it literally on the fly. AI has been a theme for this stock market really a couple of years now.

We had some news earlier about this whole China AI thing, and we're all trying to learn it literally on the fly. AI has been a theme for this stock market really a couple of years now.

It's been a supporter of growth and.

It's been a supporter of growth and.

It just means so many positive things for so many different industries. What's the assumption did anything change for you with is deep seek news earlier this week.

It just means so many positive things for so many different industries. What's the assumption did anything change for you with is deep seek news earlier this week.

Well, the fascinating thing is that the deep seek news was actually out weeks ago, right so and candidly months ago. So the key innovation was actually the handling of memory components. They announced and released a paper in August of I think it was actually August or July of last year that actually highlighted these breakthroughs and a lot of this stuff if you just think about it in an evolutionary terms, is really straightforward. Can we do more computing with less energy? Can we actually split up our brain into in terms of a reptilian brain and an mammalian brain the Sarah bellm etcetera. That's all we're doing with these components, their natural evolutionary processes that simply say these things are getting better and cheaper, et cetera. One stat I just wanted to share with you, if you look at the actual inflation adjusted price of an Apple two, the deep seat innovations basically drop the cost of AI an LLM for the average individual down to roughly the same inflation adjusted costs as an Apple too in nineteen seventy seven, My cream with.

Well, the fascinating thing is that the deep seek news was actually out weeks ago, right so and candidly months ago. So the key innovation was actually the handling of memory components. They announced and released a paper in August of I think it was actually August or July of last year that actually highlighted these breakthroughs and a lot of this stuff if you just think about it in an evolutionary terms, is really straightforward. Can we do more computing with less energy? Can we actually split up our brain into in terms of a reptilian brain and an mammalian brain the Sarah bellm etcetera. That's all we're doing with these components, their natural evolutionary processes that simply say these things are getting better and cheaper, et cetera. One stat I just wanted to share with you, if you look at the actual inflation adjusted price of an Apple two, the deep seat innovations basically drop the cost of AI an LLM for the average individual down to roughly the same inflation adjusted costs as an Apple too in nineteen seventy seven, My cream with.

Us to simplify, we're going to continue in extended conversation to get us going futures up five red and green in the screen. But I got a dancetick up four tenths of a percent, Meta and Microsoft this afternoon, and more importantly, Paul helped me in the eleven o'clock hour. You have the chief executive officer of T Mobile.

Us to simplify, we're going to continue in extended conversation to get us going futures up five red and green in the screen. But I got a dancetick up four tenths of a percent, Meta and Microsoft this afternoon, and more importantly, Paul helped me in the eleven o'clock hour. You have the chief executive officer of T Mobile.

Yeah, I think so, absolutely eleven. I think we're good on that. Hopefully he won't be coming with a collection notice that. Yeah, so we'll get the latest. I mean that telecom space, Tom, the wireless space. It's so competitive, you know, but.

Yeah, I think so, absolutely eleven. I think we're good on that. Hopefully he won't be coming with a collection notice that. Yeah, so we'll get the latest. I mean that telecom space, Tom, the wireless space. It's so competitive, you know, but.

So competitive it's kill a millany exactly. You know, you don't think, oh you get this, this it's all free, free for you, and then.

So competitive it's kill a millany exactly. You know, you don't think, oh you get this, this it's all free, free for you, and then.

Ninety days later it's like hello, yeah, exactly right, Hey Mike, what screens well for you guys?

Ninety days later it's like hello, yeah, exactly right, Hey Mike, what screens well for you guys?

These days? Are you?

These days? Are you?

You know? Ever, I think probably the last ten to fifteen years technology has led this market. Is technology still going to leave this market going forward?

You know? Ever, I think probably the last ten to fifteen years technology has led this market. Is technology still going to leave this market going forward?

Do you think it's It's hard for me to see leadership change in a very meaningful way because I spend so much my time focused on the passive components and these largest companies. There's a free that is created by these orders, and so it just pushes the leadership further. This Monday, when we had the news of deep seeking the hit on Nvidia, I ruffled a lot of feathers by saying, I just don't see why this is.

Do you think it's It's hard for me to see leadership change in a very meaningful way because I spend so much my time focused on the passive components and these largest companies. There's a free that is created by these orders, and so it just pushes the leadership further. This Monday, when we had the news of deep seeking the hit on Nvidia, I ruffled a lot of feathers by saying, I just don't see why this is.

Going to change. And here we are two or three days later.

Going to change. And here we are two or three days later.

Some of these are background charge and markets are being led by the largest companies.

Some of these are background charge and markets are being led by the largest companies.

Well, how have ETFs changes in the fact that Mike Green and I and Paul Sweeney. Yeah, I'm going back to wheat for security now, way back. This is right after the Confederacy pulled back comes Shenandoah Valley, and the basic idea here is we used to rotate, blowney, we don't rotate anymore. How have ETF's the dynamics changed that.

Well, how have ETFs changes in the fact that Mike Green and I and Paul Sweeney. Yeah, I'm going back to wheat for security now, way back. This is right after the Confederacy pulled back comes Shenandoah Valley, and the basic idea here is we used to rotate, blowney, we don't rotate anymore. How have ETF's the dynamics changed that.

Well, it's interesting because you actually can see the rotation. So immediately after Trump's election, we saw small caps take off right and you saw the actual flows into things like the IWM ETF. You can track the shares outstanding. There's explosive buying of that. On this theory that we should rotate, Well, guess what, once you've rotated.

Well, it's interesting because you actually can see the rotation. So immediately after Trump's election, we saw small caps take off right and you saw the actual flows into things like the IWM ETF. You can track the shares outstanding. There's explosive buying of that. On this theory that we should rotate, Well, guess what, once you've rotated.

What do you do next? Rotate?

What do you do next? Rotate?

And so small caps then saw people basically move away from them, and the market went right back to doing what it was doing before, which is the vast majority of the flows are people who are not rotating, not doing anything other than putting money in their paycheck into the market on their four oh one case, on a weekly basis or a bi weekly.

And so small caps then saw people basically move away from them, and the market went right back to doing what it was doing before, which is the vast majority of the flows are people who are not rotating, not doing anything other than putting money in their paycheck into the market on their four oh one case, on a weekly basis or a bi weekly.

That's a second time you've mentioned that. I mean, the financial media is ignoring Larry MacDonald was brilliant at this. There's just this wall of money almost inputting into the market on a daily basis, right, yeah, it really is.

That's a second time you've mentioned that. I mean, the financial media is ignoring Larry MacDonald was brilliant at this. There's just this wall of money almost inputting into the market on a daily basis, right, yeah, it really is.

And that money flows in and what is it by the most of in Vidia, Apple, Microsoft, et cetera. Now the relative shifts like things like in Vidia catching fire and people waking up to it. That's actually exacerbated by this because if you think about what ends up happening, right, Tom Keen and his brilliance is like in video, it's the future. I'm going to buy some of these shares. Well, who's going to sell those shares to you? The passive index fund will not sell those shares to you under any conditions unless a general sellerator comes through. And so you're competing with other people who are having the same insights. That can cause that sort of sharp performance that we've seen. But once it's there, it's kind of built in.

And that money flows in and what is it by the most of in Vidia, Apple, Microsoft, et cetera. Now the relative shifts like things like in Vidia catching fire and people waking up to it. That's actually exacerbated by this because if you think about what ends up happening, right, Tom Keen and his brilliance is like in video, it's the future. I'm going to buy some of these shares. Well, who's going to sell those shares to you? The passive index fund will not sell those shares to you under any conditions unless a general sellerator comes through. And so you're competing with other people who are having the same insights. That can cause that sort of sharp performance that we've seen. But once it's there, it's kind of built in.

Mike Cree. One final question. You've got to get Michael Barran here, but one final question. It is just simply what do you say to our listeners and viewers in cash? Well?

Mike Cree. One final question. You've got to get Michael Barran here, but one final question. It is just simply what do you say to our listeners and viewers in cash? Well?

This is a very challenging one, right because the fomo component of watching your neighbor get rich is really really difficult.

This is a very challenging one, right because the fomo component of watching your neighbor get rich is really really difficult.

I just keep emphasizing for.

I just keep emphasizing for.

People invest for what you need, not what your neighbor wants. And the reality is is that we've got real interest rates through tips and through duration at this point that are attractive enough to allow many institutions and many households to meet their objection their objectives in terms of retirements. I just encourage people to make sure that you're thinking about that income portion of your portfolio and recognizing that the volatility that we are not seeing currently will eventually return.

People invest for what you need, not what your neighbor wants. And the reality is is that we've got real interest rates through tips and through duration at this point that are attractive enough to allow many institutions and many households to meet their objection their objectives in terms of retirements. I just encourage people to make sure that you're thinking about that income portion of your portfolio and recognizing that the volatility that we are not seeing currently will eventually return.

Did you get enough time today? I did? Mike Green, thank you so much. He's been in here, folks, like three times. It's oh, Mike, I'm sorry you're on for ninety seconds. That was great to have an extended conversation.

Did you get enough time today? I did? Mike Green, thank you so much. He's been in here, folks, like three times. It's oh, Mike, I'm sorry you're on for ninety seconds. That was great to have an extended conversation.

You're listening to the Bloomberg surveillance podcast. Catch US live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg surveillance podcast. Catch US live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

We have to talk to Amanda Linum of Black Rock about adult material. But we got to do this first. This YouTube thing I'm doing and Paul's doing. Our heads are spinning. It's all new. C and End's dealing with it. Everybody's dealing with YouTube, and we have a team that's been brilliant. The word they use, Paul our colin of the Twins says discoverability. Oh okay, And the biggest thing I did is I switched to YouTube premium. It's one hundred and sixty seven dollars a year. If you pay annually, it's ten bucks a month. One twenty. Amanda, you did the same thing. What's the difference you perceive in YouTube premium versus regular run rate YouTube?

We have to talk to Amanda Linum of Black Rock about adult material. But we got to do this first. This YouTube thing I'm doing and Paul's doing. Our heads are spinning. It's all new. C and End's dealing with it. Everybody's dealing with YouTube, and we have a team that's been brilliant. The word they use, Paul our colin of the Twins says discoverability. Oh okay, And the biggest thing I did is I switched to YouTube premium. It's one hundred and sixty seven dollars a year. If you pay annually, it's ten bucks a month. One twenty. Amanda, you did the same thing. What's the difference you perceive in YouTube premium versus regular run rate YouTube?

I love it and thank you for having me because I can want you guys on two times the speed without the commercials. So I can stay informed. Yes, so I can stay informed. But it takes half the time, and it's amazing.

I love it and thank you for having me because I can want you guys on two times the speed without the commercials. So I can stay informed. Yes, so I can stay informed. But it takes half the time, and it's amazing.

It takes half the time.

It takes half the time.

Exactly, But I can you guys are so good that I can follow along had.

Exactly, But I can you guys are so good that I can follow along had.

Years of fixed in coming analysis. When you're listening at two times the speed, how will you listen to Joe Prowl? That's an idea the press conference in two times speedly, what are you going.

Years of fixed in coming analysis. When you're listening at two times the speed, how will you listen to Joe Prowl? That's an idea the press conference in two times speedly, what are you going.

To listen for today? I'm going to listen for two things.

To listen for today? I'm going to listen for two things.

One do we still think that policy is meaningfully restrictive? And then two, what is the bar for cutting rates? Is improvement and inflation enough for them to cut rates or do they actually need to see further cooling in the labor market. I think that will tell us a bit about the forward path. I'm not expecting really a cut to be on the table even in the March meeting, because the January seasonality and inflation will probably distort the numbers of But I do think that as we move towards the second half of the year, we'll want to see what the next action is in terms of an extended pause or a cut across.

One do we still think that policy is meaningfully restrictive? And then two, what is the bar for cutting rates? Is improvement and inflation enough for them to cut rates or do they actually need to see further cooling in the labor market. I think that will tell us a bit about the forward path. I'm not expecting really a cut to be on the table even in the March meeting, because the January seasonality and inflation will probably distort the numbers of But I do think that as we move towards the second half of the year, we'll want to see what the next action is in terms of an extended pause or a cut across.

The fixed income community. This year to date, just so far here in January, we have some positive returns here led by high yield. What does the macro credit call for you guys in twenty twenty five?

The fixed income community. This year to date, just so far here in January, we have some positive returns here led by high yield. What does the macro credit call for you guys in twenty twenty five?

So I think the lesson from twenty twenty four is that there was an opportunity cost to being too defensive, and really our view on credit in twenty twenty fives you just have to be very clear on why you're buying credit. We're recommending that investors buy credit for carry and for yield, not for the total return boost from, for example, tightening and spreads or decline in rates. Spreads are already quite tight, so there's not a ton of room for absolute spread tightening from here. And our base case is that structurally higher interest rates will prevail.

So I think the lesson from twenty twenty four is that there was an opportunity cost to being too defensive, and really our view on credit in twenty twenty fives you just have to be very clear on why you're buying credit. We're recommending that investors buy credit for carry and for yield, not for the total return boost from, for example, tightening and spreads or decline in rates. Spreads are already quite tight, so there's not a ton of room for absolute spread tightening from here. And our base case is that structurally higher interest rates will prevail.

So if we do get.

So if we do get.

A boost to total returns from those typical drivers and total returns, that would be a bonus. But actually were we see a pretty compelling opportunity from the all in yield perspective and corporate credit.

A boost to total returns from those typical drivers and total returns, that would be a bonus. But actually were we see a pretty compelling opportunity from the all in yield perspective and corporate credit.

How do you feel about investment grade versus high yield?

How do you feel about investment grade versus high yield?

Yeah, I actually am comfortable moving down the quality spectrum. I would say for investors that can only play in investment grade, triple b's are a nice option for that. So moving down in the quality spectrum, I would say. The big takeaway over the past few years, frankly, is that there's a lot more fluidity between these markets. Actually, if you look at credit metrics, between the high end of high yield and the low end of IG, either're converging. There's not a steep of a penalty for a company to fall from IG to high yield. We're just seeing a lot more of the blurring of the lines, and so that line of demarcation between IG and high yield.

Yeah, I actually am comfortable moving down the quality spectrum. I would say for investors that can only play in investment grade, triple b's are a nice option for that. So moving down in the quality spectrum, I would say. The big takeaway over the past few years, frankly, is that there's a lot more fluidity between these markets. Actually, if you look at credit metrics, between the high end of high yield and the low end of IG, either're converging. There's not a steep of a penalty for a company to fall from IG to high yield. We're just seeing a lot more of the blurring of the lines, and so that line of demarcation between IG and high yield.

Is much less punitive than it used to be. We actually like moving down in quality now.

Is much less punitive than it used to be. We actually like moving down in quality now.

I would say when you get into things like triple c's, especially on triple C loans have underperformed because of certain technicals related to colos and rating sensitivity, you have to tread a bit carefully.

I would say when you get into things like triple c's, especially on triple C loans have underperformed because of certain technicals related to colos and rating sensitivity, you have to tread a bit carefully.

But in general we like credit risk.

But in general we like credit risk.

And I looked at the Atlanta FED GDP now three point two percent, solidly above trend, and so that's the key for credit is the growth I totally.

And I looked at the Atlanta FED GDP now three point two percent, solidly above trend, and so that's the key for credit is the growth I totally.

This is my main theory. Is the number one thing we've been wrong on has been the growth story is a continuum. Does black Rock believe the growth story continues? We do.

This is my main theory. Is the number one thing we've been wrong on has been the growth story is a continuum. Does black Rock believe the growth story continues? We do.

And I would say the one sign post to watch because I think amid all of this uncertainty and volatility, we just need to know what to watch for the growth story has been hinged on the US consumer remaining resilient. The pockets of weakness that we've seen have really been confined to the low end. That's because the labor market is in this kind of low hiring but low firing environment. I think the key time for that to change is that if corporates start flexing the layoff tool more aggressively, that might allow the weakness in the consumer to extend beyond that lower income cohort. And I think that could be the risk to the US economy because we know the consumer generates two thirds of GDP.

And I would say the one sign post to watch because I think amid all of this uncertainty and volatility, we just need to know what to watch for the growth story has been hinged on the US consumer remaining resilient. The pockets of weakness that we've seen have really been confined to the low end. That's because the labor market is in this kind of low hiring but low firing environment. I think the key time for that to change is that if corporates start flexing the layoff tool more aggressively, that might allow the weakness in the consumer to extend beyond that lower income cohort. And I think that could be the risk to the US economy because we know the consumer generates two thirds of GDP.

Paul Swedy Craig tourist joining us here in the nine o'clock on that lower core. He's got some brilliant research.

Paul Swedy Craig tourist joining us here in the nine o'clock on that lower core. He's got some brilliant research.

Man, Are there some sectors that screen well for you guys right now?

Man, Are there some sectors that screen well for you guys right now?

Folks still like financials.

Folks still like financials.

I think when you think about some of the tailwes in terms of a rebound in capital markets, activity, steeper yield curve of you know, deregulation, possibly less exposure to kind of global trade tensions.

I think when you think about some of the tailwes in terms of a rebound in capital markets, activity, steeper yield curve of you know, deregulation, possibly less exposure to kind of global trade tensions.

Sally support their earnings on a Monday. They come out Tuesday with these huge bomb offerings.

Sally support their earnings on a Monday. They come out Tuesday with these huge bomb offerings.

Do you pick up the phone?

Do you pick up the phone?

There the new Yeah, the new issue market is a really attractive way to put capital to work because those deals often come at a spread concession, right, So that's a that's a way that investors can kind of participate in new issue pricings. Financials are a massive part of the investment grade in next but even outside of financials, I think there are a lot of sectors.

There the new Yeah, the new issue market is a really attractive way to put capital to work because those deals often come at a spread concession, right, So that's a that's a way that investors can kind of participate in new issue pricings. Financials are a massive part of the investment grade in next but even outside of financials, I think there are a lot of sectors.

Career mortals buy new issue paper or is it like the junior members of Blackguard? No, you can't have that, Amanda has it.

Career mortals buy new issue paper or is it like the junior members of Blackguard? No, you can't have that, Amanda has it.

The new issue markets are are wide open.

The new issue markets are are wide open.

And actually, what we've seen, even with some of the volatility in recent weeks, is that deals are multiple times oversubscribed, trading well on the break.

And actually, what we've seen, even with some of the volatility in recent weeks, is that deals are multiple times oversubscribed, trading well on the break.

And so those four times yeah.

And so those four times yeah.

So I think that's really and there's been some consternation in the markets, obviously with some of the news flow and whether or not we should read this to be risk off. In terms of the rally treasuries that we saw, credit spreads were incredibly well behaved, and in fact, the modest widening that we saw on Monday has for the most part been completely retraced.

So I think that's really and there's been some consternation in the markets, obviously with some of the news flow and whether or not we should read this to be risk off. In terms of the rally treasuries that we saw, credit spreads were incredibly well behaved, and in fact, the modest widening that we saw on Monday has for the most part been completely retraced.

Are yields now normal? This is a huge cultural question. Are we getting back to normal or do you see it vector towards lower end.

Are yields now normal? This is a huge cultural question. Are we getting back to normal or do you see it vector towards lower end.

Yes, So our expectation is for a normalizing monetary policy cycle, not an easing cycle. So on the front end policy rate, we are not expecting to retrace to the zero lower bound that was in place for much of the post financial crisis era. At the long end of the curve, we expect structurally higher rates there as well because of an increase in term premium.

Yes, So our expectation is for a normalizing monetary policy cycle, not an easing cycle. So on the front end policy rate, we are not expecting to retrace to the zero lower bound that was in place for much of the post financial crisis era. At the long end of the curve, we expect structurally higher rates there as well because of an increase in term premium.

Focus on budget deficits.

Focus on budget deficits.

So yes, I think we are in this high for longer interest rate environment. However, corporates have been navigating this. They've been refinancing into this new regime. They've been taking actions to protect margins where they can to compensate for higher deck costs. So it hasn't been as disruptive as many market participants expected.

So yes, I think we are in this high for longer interest rate environment. However, corporates have been navigating this. They've been refinancing into this new regime. They've been taking actions to protect margins where they can to compensate for higher deck costs. So it hasn't been as disruptive as many market participants expected.

The next time you watch YouTube premium you put it on three times.

The next time you watch YouTube premium you put it on three times.

I don't think actually that's an often Tom.

I don't think actually that's an often Tom.

I think actually the max is too, So we're we're at max.

I think actually the max is too, So we're we're at max.

Slow at that. Yes, Amandoliin and thank you so much for your support through the year. Blue with black Rock and mand Lenman had a macro credit research. You know, he's smart, smart and where we're going to are you and Jeff Rosenberg on speaking to him.

Slow at that. Yes, Amandoliin and thank you so much for your support through the year. Blue with black Rock and mand Lenman had a macro credit research. You know, he's smart, smart and where we're going to are you and Jeff Rosenberg on speaking to him.

Of course he's wonderful.

Of course he's wonderful.

Yes, it's wonderful. It's just good. He's up to four people of Black Rocket like him.

Yes, it's wonderful. It's just good. He's up to four people of Black Rocket like him.

It's nice.

It's nice.

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

You know, it's much over in huts and yards with the cool kids.

You know, it's much over in huts and yards with the cool kids.

Now, oh really yeah? So so like the shop, is it like painful? Because you want to shop?

Now, oh really yeah? So so like the shop, is it like painful? Because you want to shop?

It's beautiful, brand new, it's it's lovely. You should come over.

It's beautiful, brand new, it's it's lovely. You should come over.

What's your favorite store there? What's the unknown store?

What's your favorite store there? What's the unknown store?

Too many to choose Tom Studio.

Too many to choose Tom Studio.

Yeah, there's a very Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot to choose from.

Yeah, there's a very Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot to choose from.

So you're you're walking around at leven Yeah, no, that's not a good look. No, no one you think. Could you see me in Lulu eleven Tights control room just turning green? Amandolne, thank you so much for your support with Black Red.

So you're you're walking around at leven Yeah, no, that's not a good look. No, no one you think. Could you see me in Lulu eleven Tights control room just turning green? Amandolne, thank you so much for your support with Black Red.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

It is FED day with many distractions. I thought the Microsoft and video thing there we just did was interesting. Cam Dawson was lights many other guests today, But we need to get back to the foundation of American macro strategy. George Congalfis joins us right now from m UFG on this FED day. Where are we going to be at four o'clock, Georgia. And I don't mean like trying to guess the press conference, but if it's a snooze fest, I don't buy it. What will you listen to for excitement in the press conference today? Good morning?

It is FED day with many distractions. I thought the Microsoft and video thing there we just did was interesting. Cam Dawson was lights many other guests today, But we need to get back to the foundation of American macro strategy. George Congalfis joins us right now from m UFG on this FED day. Where are we going to be at four o'clock, Georgia. And I don't mean like trying to guess the press conference, but if it's a snooze fest, I don't buy it. What will you listen to for excitement in the press conference today? Good morning?

And look, I do think that as much as we tend to think of FED events as these potential market moving days, and they usually are, I think this is one where it's the first meeting of the year. It's the first meeting under the new Trump administration two point zero world that we're in, and I really don't see why Chairpal would want to convey anything that ruffles any feathers. And I really do think that they're gonna just stick to the script around DAT dependency and that they've largely achieved a lot of their goals, but they're gonna this is gonna be the first meeting by the way, they're gonna skip in the normalization process. They cut one hundred basis points last year. This will be the first skip. So I think it's gonna be about explaining, like what is the game plan for the coming months.

And look, I do think that as much as we tend to think of FED events as these potential market moving days, and they usually are, I think this is one where it's the first meeting of the year. It's the first meeting under the new Trump administration two point zero world that we're in, and I really don't see why Chairpal would want to convey anything that ruffles any feathers. And I really do think that they're gonna just stick to the script around DAT dependency and that they've largely achieved a lot of their goals, but they're gonna this is gonna be the first meeting by the way, they're gonna skip in the normalization process. They cut one hundred basis points last year. This will be the first skip. So I think it's gonna be about explaining, like what is the game plan for the coming months.

Will there be any language to suggest that they are not committed to further rate cuts data dependent?

Will there be any language to suggest that they are not committed to further rate cuts data dependent?

Of course?

Of course?

Will there be any language suggests, hey, maybe there are scenarios where we sit pat or maybe even rates.

Will there be any language suggests, hey, maybe there are scenarios where we sit pat or maybe even rates.

Yeah, Look, we're we're leaning towards a very neutral message out of chair Palell and just from the general statement as well. I think it's too early to make that call. That would be a surprise, definitely if they come out come across as that the normalisition process was is a done deal and it's gonna take it's and the bar has been raised. I think that they don't want to limit themselves so early on in the year, and so I don't think that's the case.

Yeah, Look, we're we're leaning towards a very neutral message out of chair Palell and just from the general statement as well. I think it's too early to make that call. That would be a surprise, definitely if they come out come across as that the normalisition process was is a done deal and it's gonna take it's and the bar has been raised. I think that they don't want to limit themselves so early on in the year, and so I don't think that's the case.

So where do we think about just kind of macro strategy here, given that backdrop, George, as we think about stocks, bonds, commodities, where's your what's the macro call from you guys in the beginning part of twenty twenty five.

So where do we think about just kind of macro strategy here, given that backdrop, George, as we think about stocks, bonds, commodities, where's your what's the macro call from you guys in the beginning part of twenty twenty five.

Look, I mean, I think it's a it's a wait and see staying very tactical, not really super strategic at this point. It's it's really trying to understand what a delay of the land going forward, and there's there's a lot of jumper risk, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we're still kind of going through.

Look, I mean, I think it's a it's a wait and see staying very tactical, not really super strategic at this point. It's it's really trying to understand what a delay of the land going forward, and there's there's a lot of jumper risk, there's a lot of uncertainty, and we're still kind of going through.

I think it's I mean, George, don't go with that. You're gonna grab the coupon and wait and see. But what do you do down short term paper? Our listeners and viewers in cash in three months they got the Sweeney two year CD whatever. I mean, at that short duration, you know, you can take the coupon, but you got to make a call here, what does short duration do?

I think it's I mean, George, don't go with that. You're gonna grab the coupon and wait and see. But what do you do down short term paper? Our listeners and viewers in cash in three months they got the Sweeney two year CD whatever. I mean, at that short duration, you know, you can take the coupon, but you got to make a call here, what does short duration do?

Look, I think that fixed Ittom still on the buy and dips makes a lot of sense. We had that rise in rates, it was unsustained, and as long as that's the case, I think that we're okay with, you know, buying on dips. But the problem is that we don't have a dip right now. We're actually at the bottom of the ranges, and I think we would like want to look for either if data gets stronger in Q one, if there are those animal spirits, the euphoria post election. If they translate into activity, then rates are gonna go back up again, and then that might be a chance to buy.

Look, I think that fixed Ittom still on the buy and dips makes a lot of sense. We had that rise in rates, it was unsustained, and as long as that's the case, I think that we're okay with, you know, buying on dips. But the problem is that we don't have a dip right now. We're actually at the bottom of the ranges, and I think we would like want to look for either if data gets stronger in Q one, if there are those animal spirits, the euphoria post election. If they translate into activity, then rates are gonna go back up again, and then that might be a chance to buy.

So, George, where are where's your asset allocation these days? I mean, and has it changed in recent period?

So, George, where are where's your asset allocation these days? I mean, and has it changed in recent period?

Yeah?

Yeah?

So, look, we've been more defensive. I mean, credit I think is basically priced in all the good news. You know, you kind of neutral to on credit and mortgages are probably that's still the one fixing come massa class that has the most value, but it's at the mercy of rate volatility in the shape of the yield curve until we get more clarity on that. Mortgages are a good product to buy, but really not the real time.

So, look, we've been more defensive. I mean, credit I think is basically priced in all the good news. You know, you kind of neutral to on credit and mortgages are probably that's still the one fixing come massa class that has the most value, but it's at the mercy of rate volatility in the shape of the yield curve until we get more clarity on that. Mortgages are a good product to buy, but really not the real time.

To do it at this point.

To do it at this point.

And so we're gonna be a relative defensive and looking for for yield charge.

And so we're gonna be a relative defensive and looking for for yield charge.

We'll tauch you at four pm. See if the world's blown up church can call us with this out of us macro strategy MUFG.

We'll tauch you at four pm. See if the world's blown up church can call us with this out of us macro strategy MUFG.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

It is the newspaper, is it daily? Look at the front pages at listam tall O moment, Lisa, what do you have?

It is the newspaper, is it daily? Look at the front pages at listam tall O moment, Lisa, what do you have?

Okay, Tom, you're not gonna like this one.

Okay, Tom, you're not gonna like this one.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

This is in the New York Times national test scores showing that the reading skills of American students continuing to fall. Let me get to the numbers real quickly. The percentage of eighth graders who have below basic reading skills, it was the largest it's been in the exams three decade in history. That's thirty three percent. It was forty percent for fourth graders. There was some progress in math, but it didn't just offset those losses. But the interesting thing is the reason why the experts feel like this is happening. They're just saying the increased screen time, more kids on their phone, social media, school absences, all, you know, those kind of distractions. They're watching more videos on their phone, so they're reading less. You know, they're watching the video.

This is in the New York Times national test scores showing that the reading skills of American students continuing to fall. Let me get to the numbers real quickly. The percentage of eighth graders who have below basic reading skills, it was the largest it's been in the exams three decade in history. That's thirty three percent. It was forty percent for fourth graders. There was some progress in math, but it didn't just offset those losses. But the interesting thing is the reason why the experts feel like this is happening. They're just saying the increased screen time, more kids on their phone, social media, school absences, all, you know, those kind of distractions. They're watching more videos on their phone, so they're reading less. You know, they're watching the video.

I'm I'm in the same pump. Yeah, I mean all the time. I used to.

I'm I'm in the same pump. Yeah, I mean all the time. I used to.

Yeah, we adults too.

Yeah, we adults too.

I know it's true.

I know it's true.

I see the books stacked up an afterthoughts, bedroom unread and what I know? Is there something about finishing a book it's gone.

I see the books stacked up an afterthoughts, bedroom unread and what I know? Is there something about finishing a book it's gone.

I think it's the attention span.

I think it's the attention span.

I'm trying to do it. Example, I'm reading Rusher Sharma right now, folks, fabulous book and capitalism. I'm reading David McCullough on Paris just because I need to buy six thousand square feet on the river sin blah blah blah. Paul, you're reading books. The answer is, I'm trying by example to show them to go cover to cover. It ain't working. I'm going down in flames.

I'm trying to do it. Example, I'm reading Rusher Sharma right now, folks, fabulous book and capitalism. I'm reading David McCullough on Paris just because I need to buy six thousand square feet on the river sin blah blah blah. Paul, you're reading books. The answer is, I'm trying by example to show them to go cover to cover. It ain't working. I'm going down in flames.

It's hard, but that's what they're saying. Because the screen times are causing them to have less attention span. They can't sit and finish a book and finish reading what they're supposed.

It's hard, but that's what they're saying. Because the screen times are causing them to have less attention span. They can't sit and finish a book and finish reading what they're supposed.

To be reading. It's a huge deal. I don't know what to do with it.

To be reading. It's a huge deal. I don't know what to do with it.

It's a big one.

It's a big one.

I'm depressed. One. I got to go check TikTok.

I'm depressed. One. I got to go check TikTok.

Yeah, this wasn't interesting from the Wall Street Journal, New York City co Ops not the status symbol that they used to be. It has this really interesting read into it. These are buildings that you know, sylmbolize this old money elegance, right, we're talking about Park at Fifth Avenue, even Central Park West, all those co ops because they're saying, younger buyers, they want newer, flash your buildings downtown, they want to go downtown. A lot of the colt buildings they're older, they're built in the nineteen twenties. And then they're choosing the condos have fewer rules because the.

Yeah, this wasn't interesting from the Wall Street Journal, New York City co Ops not the status symbol that they used to be. It has this really interesting read into it. These are buildings that you know, sylmbolize this old money elegance, right, we're talking about Park at Fifth Avenue, even Central Park West, all those co ops because they're saying, younger buyers, they want newer, flash your buildings downtown, they want to go downtown. A lot of the colt buildings they're older, they're built in the nineteen twenties. And then they're choosing the condos have fewer rules because the.

Co ops have a lot the co op process.

Co ops have a lot the co op process.

Than the co op process. I'm reading about it.

Than the co op process. I'm reading about it.

It's I applied to a co op, did you get fancy one? Like? You know, I would have been the poorest person in the building, and I was. I was insulted by what they wanted from me.

It's I applied to a co op, did you get fancy one? Like? You know, I would have been the poorest person in the building, and I was. I was insulted by what they wanted from me.

I said, no way, And that's that's what a lot of people do.

I said, no way, And that's that's what a lot of people do.

My entire tax return and that was a year where Vet Bill, you know, I had a business that went under someone's like fifty four pages, said you know, I'm not doing that.

My entire tax return and that was a year where Vet Bill, you know, I had a business that went under someone's like fifty four pages, said you know, I'm not doing that.

Yeah, they could order to pay all cashs.

Yeah, they could order to pay all cashs.

It's also that they're new and slick in their downtown. I mean, it's not just co op. Right, squeeze in one more?

It's also that they're new and slick in their downtown. I mean, it's not just co op. Right, squeeze in one more?

Okay, one more?

Okay, one more?

Oh, this one's a dagger Pooksatani Phil's groundhog Day job would be in jeopardy. Okay, Peter is suggesting a vegan.

Oh, this one's a dagger Pooksatani Phil's groundhog Day job would be in jeopardy. Okay, Peter is suggesting a vegan.

Weather revealed cake.

Weather revealed cake.

You would love this because they want to retire him to a sanctuary. That's what they're asking. They're saying, Phil, he's exploited. He would be happier living in his natural habitat. So the blue would mean six more weeks of winter. The pink would mean an early spring. And that's how the cake, the vegan cake would work instead of pusatani.

You would love this because they want to retire him to a sanctuary. That's what they're asking. They're saying, Phil, he's exploited. He would be happier living in his natural habitat. So the blue would mean six more weeks of winter. The pink would mean an early spring. And that's how the cake, the vegan cake would work instead of pusatani.

Disappoint Can the president do something about this?

Disappoint Can the president do something about this?

In here ground Homeday, Sunday, Sunday Sunday.

In here ground Homeday, Sunday, Sunday Sunday.

Okay, Okay, that's why I know what this arm is gonna say.

Okay, Okay, that's why I know what this arm is gonna say.

I've been there reporting.

I've been there reporting.

Section.

Section.

You know that I was there at the.

You know that I was there at the.

Statue of our mayors have their handbit.

Statue of our mayors have their handbit.

I actually did.

I actually did.

He was there for that one. The beast.

He was there for that one. The beast.

Hell together.

Hell together.

It was very impressive.

It was very impressive.

Hold on your badge, Lisa, Thank you so much, The Newspapers with Lisa Matteo.

Hold on your badge, Lisa, Thank you so much, The Newspapers with Lisa Matteo.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Tune in and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, Tune in and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal