Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along with Lisa Bromwitz and Amrie Hordern. Join us each day for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics from our global headquarters in New York City. We are live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app. Jenny and Manuel of evercret I I right in this The phrase it is different this time is being heard everywhere, especially since the FED has promised the cut raids from a position where the economy is not slowing. We do think that Friday's core PC number could surprise to the upside and a cut would get quickly priced out and the market would respond with stock weakness. Judian and place to say with us for more. Julian, good morning, good morning to see you said in the exuberance zone. Can you describe what that zone is irrational or not?

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along with Lisa Bromwitz and Amrie Hordern. Join us each day for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics from our global headquarters in New York City. We are live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app. Jenny and Manuel of evercret I I right in this The phrase it is different this time is being heard everywhere, especially since the FED has promised the cut raids from a position where the economy is not slowing. We do think that Friday's core PC number could surprise to the upside and a cut would get quickly priced out and the market would respond with stock weakness. Judian and place to say with us for more. Julian, good morning, good morning to see you said in the exuberance zone. Can you describe what that zone is irrational or not?

It is not irrational, okay, because I think when we as investors think about history. We have to go back to the time where, frankly, having run money during that time, you knew there was irrationality. In year two thousand that was twenty eight times earnings. We are at twenty three times earnings.

It is not irrational, okay, because I think when we as investors think about history. We have to go back to the time where, frankly, having run money during that time, you knew there was irrationality. In year two thousand that was twenty eight times earnings. We are at twenty three times earnings.

Now. The S and P and rview.

Now. The S and P and rview.

Would have to get a lot closer to six thousand to get to irrational. However, we are seeing signs of the wall of warri having given completely dissolved, very barrant behavior in the options markets. Betting on stocks doubling in the course of three or four days, incredible betting on the Nasdaq rallying a further thirty three percent out to June after already rallying thirty percent since the October low.

Would have to get a lot closer to six thousand to get to irrational. However, we are seeing signs of the wall of warri having given completely dissolved, very barrant behavior in the options markets. Betting on stocks doubling in the course of three or four days, incredible betting on the Nasdaq rallying a further thirty three percent out to June after already rallying thirty percent since the October low.

All of these.

All of these.

Signs you see short interest being a decade lows. All these things say that there is a feeling that the market isn't invincible. And when you think about the narrative of the last several months where we walk back from six rate cuts to three rate cuts without the market you know, pausing for even a moment, Yeah, you can understand why we're there. We think that the reaction to hotter inflation may be different.

Signs you see short interest being a decade lows. All these things say that there is a feeling that the market isn't invincible. And when you think about the narrative of the last several months where we walk back from six rate cuts to three rate cuts without the market you know, pausing for even a moment, Yeah, you can understand why we're there. We think that the reaction to hotter inflation may be different.

You know, what the comeback might be. Just because you found someone playing blackjack doesn't mean we're in Las Vegas, right, You know, you can always find something like that. You find it, you can find the gambling going on somewhere. That stuff always exists. What's new about this?

You know, what the comeback might be. Just because you found someone playing blackjack doesn't mean we're in Las Vegas, right, You know, you can always find something like that. You find it, you can find the gambling going on somewhere. That stuff always exists. What's new about this?

So what's new about this is that this phenomenon known as zero daised expiration options really in a lot of ways is the equivalent of what we saw back in the late nineteen nineties.

So what's new about this is that this phenomenon known as zero daised expiration options really in a lot of ways is the equivalent of what we saw back in the late nineteen nineties.

It was called day trading then.

It was called day trading then.

Obviously it's called high frequency quantitative trading now.

Obviously it's called high frequency quantitative trading now.

But the speculation that.

But the speculation that.

You can really cause to happen every single day, and we saw it in this earning season, this last earning season, and we're likely to see it again this earning season, where you have these stocks that have enormous gaps to the upside and the downside because of the exuberance that really has no precedent in the options market.

You can really cause to happen every single day, and we saw it in this earning season, this last earning season, and we're likely to see it again this earning season, where you have these stocks that have enormous gaps to the upside and the downside because of the exuberance that really has no precedent in the options market.

Which race is a question where is the reality check? Where is the gut check?

Which race is a question where is the reality check? Where is the gut check?

You say it.

You say it.

Comes from in some ways the inflation data, It comes from FED expectations, it comes from the bond market. What's the trigger though, at a time where the market is hearing what the FED is saying, and then some they're hearing the rosiest picture that the Fed's going to let inflation come down very slowly, but that they will get an under control.

Comes from in some ways the inflation data, It comes from FED expectations, it comes from the bond market. What's the trigger though, at a time where the market is hearing what the FED is saying, and then some they're hearing the rosiest picture that the Fed's going to let inflation come down very slowly, but that they will get an under control.

So, when you have momentum of this kind of strength, and we have to acknowledge that this is among the most record scenting periods of momentum that we've seen, there tends not to be a discrete trigger.

So, when you have momentum of this kind of strength, and we have to acknowledge that this is among the most record scenting periods of momentum that we've seen, there tends not to be a discrete trigger.

The one thing we would point to.

The one thing we would point to.

Is when you think about it, actually the month of April is sort of an outlier in that what you tend to see is sort of momentum reversals, and what we've looked at over the month of March is some of these momentum names have stalled.

Is when you think about it, actually the month of April is sort of an outlier in that what you tend to see is sort of momentum reversals, and what we've looked at over the month of March is some of these momentum names have stalled.

They haven't reversed, they've stalled.

They haven't reversed, they've stalled.

But when you are trying to feed that sort of exuberance, stalling is something that we take note of. And again with this tendency, turning the page to the second quarter, there is a potential in our view of momentum really taking a backseat.

But when you are trying to feed that sort of exuberance, stalling is something that we take note of. And again with this tendency, turning the page to the second quarter, there is a potential in our view of momentum really taking a backseat.

How do some of the retail investors, the traders that use these options contracts that you were talking about fit into the picture of how this will develop. Do you think that they increase the fragility of markets, or do you think that essentially they're just a feature of the moment we're in.

How do some of the retail investors, the traders that use these options contracts that you were talking about fit into the picture of how this will develop. Do you think that they increase the fragility of markets, or do you think that essentially they're just a feature of the moment we're in.

Well, no, actually, and we said this when zero disted expiration options first became quote unquote a thing that we felt very highly convicted that it would suppress volatility because think about it, the casino is open from nine point thirty to four and then you cast your chips in and there's no overnight risk, okay. And actually, as a professional investor, that gives you opportunities that you might not normally have because when you're pushing the action on a day to day basis in this way and you get these gap moves. If you're a disciplined buyer and seller of stocks, you get these opportunities to add.

Well, no, actually, and we said this when zero disted expiration options first became quote unquote a thing that we felt very highly convicted that it would suppress volatility because think about it, the casino is open from nine point thirty to four and then you cast your chips in and there's no overnight risk, okay. And actually, as a professional investor, that gives you opportunities that you might not normally have because when you're pushing the action on a day to day basis in this way and you get these gap moves. If you're a disciplined buyer and seller of stocks, you get these opportunities to add.

To positions, to trim positions.

To positions, to trim positions.

That actually increase the alpha and make this it really The environment that we're in of stock selection is also unlike anything we've seen, But a lot of this is driven by this constant exuberance that we see on the part of the public.

That actually increase the alpha and make this it really The environment that we're in of stock selection is also unlike anything we've seen, But a lot of this is driven by this constant exuberance that we see on the part of the public.

Can you talk to us about opportunities right now? Then what are they?

Can you talk to us about opportunities right now? Then what are they?

So we continue to think that there's a likelihood of the economy slowing in the second half and into twenty twenty five. And when you think about it, some of these more defensive sectors that actually tend to do well in the period from the last hike to the first cut it have lagged. They've had idiosyncratic issues. Healthcare, consumer staples really sort of working off the GLP one phenomenon. We think there's a lot of value there. And there's also this entire subset of names whose valuations haven't moved out in the way the index has that still have strong earnings.

So we continue to think that there's a likelihood of the economy slowing in the second half and into twenty twenty five. And when you think about it, some of these more defensive sectors that actually tend to do well in the period from the last hike to the first cut it have lagged. They've had idiosyncratic issues. Healthcare, consumer staples really sort of working off the GLP one phenomenon. We think there's a lot of value there. And there's also this entire subset of names whose valuations haven't moved out in the way the index has that still have strong earnings.

It's a cross sector.

It's a cross sector.

Now, can we get to healthcare on place? You put it out, what am I buying? Going to buy healthcare? Is it just the JLP well semantic story and some people might point to that as a zuber and well am I buying well?

Now, can we get to healthcare on place? You put it out, what am I buying? Going to buy healthcare? Is it just the JLP well semantic story and some people might point to that as a zuber and well am I buying well?

So that's what held the rest of the sector back for the majority of last year. But when you look at it right, there's this whole notion that we've started to CM and a activity come back because financing conditions have remained as favorable as they have and that really points to, you know, the future. In terms of biotech, small cap biotech has done pretty well this year. We think there's a broadening, and of course, in this environment where the likelihood is that you know it with a yield on some of these names four or five six percent, bar belling into some of the safer names, cash flow generators makes sense to us as well.

So that's what held the rest of the sector back for the majority of last year. But when you look at it right, there's this whole notion that we've started to CM and a activity come back because financing conditions have remained as favorable as they have and that really points to, you know, the future. In terms of biotech, small cap biotech has done pretty well this year. We think there's a broadening, and of course, in this environment where the likelihood is that you know it with a yield on some of these names four or five six percent, bar belling into some of the safer names, cash flow generators makes sense to us as well.

Interesting, Julian, thank you. It's good to see you as always. Thank you saying Jenny and Monnuwether of Evercore in the Exuberance Zone. Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Nettania, who's office canceling a planned visit by senior aide to Washington. The decision coming after the US abstained from voting a UN resolution demanding an immediate cease far in Gaza. One of the eighth scheduled to visit the US was Ron Dermer. These Arareel Strategic Affairs Minister. He joined us now from Jerusalem. Minister, wonderful to catch with you once again, Sir. I want to begin our conversation if we can, with a quote from John Kirby, the spokesperson for the UST National Security Council, and Minister. This is what he had to say. There's no reason for this to be seen as some sort of escalation. Nothing has changed about our policy. Nothing. We still want to see a ceasefire, we still want to get hostages out. Minister, Can we just begin with that line coming from the administration, What exactly do you believe has changed as they turn around and say nothing has.

Interesting, Julian, thank you. It's good to see you as always. Thank you saying Jenny and Monnuwether of Evercore in the Exuberance Zone. Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Nettania, who's office canceling a planned visit by senior aide to Washington. The decision coming after the US abstained from voting a UN resolution demanding an immediate cease far in Gaza. One of the eighth scheduled to visit the US was Ron Dermer. These Arareel Strategic Affairs Minister. He joined us now from Jerusalem. Minister, wonderful to catch with you once again, Sir. I want to begin our conversation if we can, with a quote from John Kirby, the spokesperson for the UST National Security Council, and Minister. This is what he had to say. There's no reason for this to be seen as some sort of escalation. Nothing has changed about our policy. Nothing. We still want to see a ceasefire, we still want to get hostages out. Minister, Can we just begin with that line coming from the administration, What exactly do you believe has changed as they turn around and say nothing has.

Well, I believe there are policy that has been pretty consistent, John, since the beginning of the war about six months ago, was to not accept the cease fire. That would be unconditional and it would have to be connected to an agreement to release hostages. Unfortunately, in this text there was passed. Those two issues were separated for the first time. In fact, five days before there was a resolution that the United States put forward that was vetoed by a China and Russia. And one of the reasons why they vetoed it is because it connected those two issues. And if you look at the text, and everyone can go see it on the UN website, and you look at the resolution five days ago and you look at the resolution that passed yesterday, you'll see a huge difference. And unfortunately, that's a change in US policy.

Well, I believe there are policy that has been pretty consistent, John, since the beginning of the war about six months ago, was to not accept the cease fire. That would be unconditional and it would have to be connected to an agreement to release hostages. Unfortunately, in this text there was passed. Those two issues were separated for the first time. In fact, five days before there was a resolution that the United States put forward that was vetoed by a China and Russia. And one of the reasons why they vetoed it is because it connected those two issues. And if you look at the text, and everyone can go see it on the UN website, and you look at the resolution five days ago and you look at the resolution that passed yesterday, you'll see a huge difference. And unfortunately, that's a change in US policy.

Now.

Now.

I'm glad to hear that John Kirby said, it's not a change in US policy, and I hope that they will continue to connect those two issues. But that's not the text of the resolution, and that's why Tamas celebrated the resolution and welcomed it.

I'm glad to hear that John Kirby said, it's not a change in US policy, and I hope that they will continue to connect those two issues. But that's not the text of the resolution, and that's why Tamas celebrated the resolution and welcomed it.

That's why Iran welcomed it.

That's why Iran welcomed it.

Believe me, any resolution by the UN Security Council that Kamas welcomes is not a good resolution for Israel.

Believe me, any resolution by the UN Security Council that Kamas welcomes is not a good resolution for Israel.

A minister, you would you to travel yesterday evening. Could you share with us what you said to the administration directly after that decision?

A minister, you would you to travel yesterday evening. Could you share with us what you said to the administration directly after that decision?

Well, I spoke to them.

Well, I spoke to them.

I haven't spoken to them after that decision. I spoke to them before that decision. When we first learned about which direction this was going. I did on I think it was Sunday night, and when I heard what was happening, I said, look, you're going to have it's the wrong message at the wrong time. I explained to you, why was the wrong message because it's not connecting the issue of a ceasefire with the return of the hostages.

I haven't spoken to them after that decision. I spoke to them before that decision. When we first learned about which direction this was going. I did on I think it was Sunday night, and when I heard what was happening, I said, look, you're going to have it's the wrong message at the wrong time. I explained to you, why was the wrong message because it's not connecting the issue of a ceasefire with the return of the hostages.

And why is it such bad timing.

And why is it such bad timing.

Because we had negotiators in Doha trying to get an agreement to release hostages. And it's not surprising that Hamas decided to reject the latest proposal that was put forward by the Americans, because why should they not reject it? They think they're going to get a ceasefire without giving up the hostages, because that's what the resolution said. And I understand and I appreciate that the United States has said that's not our policy, but that's not the text of the resolution.

Because we had negotiators in Doha trying to get an agreement to release hostages. And it's not surprising that Hamas decided to reject the latest proposal that was put forward by the Americans, because why should they not reject it? They think they're going to get a ceasefire without giving up the hostages, because that's what the resolution said. And I understand and I appreciate that the United States has said that's not our policy, but that's not the text of the resolution.

And that's the problem.

And that's the problem.

I told them before if this would be the case, I would find it very difficult to believe that the Prime Minister would send a delegation to Washington. Why because the purpose of us going to Washington was to discuss and to actually listen to American ideas of how we should go into Rafa the other ideas that they said they had without a major military operation in Rafa. What message John is going to send to hamas that the day after that the Americans separate these two issues. Hey, you know what, you could have a ceasefire without a hostage negotiations, and then the United States is presenting its proposal how we should not go into Rafa.

I told them before if this would be the case, I would find it very difficult to believe that the Prime Minister would send a delegation to Washington. Why because the purpose of us going to Washington was to discuss and to actually listen to American ideas of how we should go into Rafa the other ideas that they said they had without a major military operation in Rafa. What message John is going to send to hamas that the day after that the Americans separate these two issues. Hey, you know what, you could have a ceasefire without a hostage negotiations, and then the United States is presenting its proposal how we should not go into Rafa.

That's a real big problem.

That's a real big problem.

And that's why the Prime Minister made the right decision, made the right decision to stop the delegation which I was leading to go to Washington.

And that's why the Prime Minister made the right decision, made the right decision to stop the delegation which I was leading to go to Washington.

Okay, so this trip was suspended. Is there any plans for you to come to Washington then in the future.

Okay, so this trip was suspended. Is there any plans for you to come to Washington then in the future.

I don't know.

I don't know.

We'll have to discuss it with the US administration. We haven't had those discussions yet. I think the context here was particularly problematic. Obviously, the US has ideas, and I'm sure they'll share it with us. I don't know if it'll be in a delegation in Washington's people coming here us speaking over the phone, but they have ideas that they won't want to present to us. The President asked the Prime Minister of Israel to send the delegation so that we can hear their ideas. We have our Defense minister in Washington now. I'm sure he's discussing.

We'll have to discuss it with the US administration. We haven't had those discussions yet. I think the context here was particularly problematic. Obviously, the US has ideas, and I'm sure they'll share it with us. I don't know if it'll be in a delegation in Washington's people coming here us speaking over the phone, but they have ideas that they won't want to present to us. The President asked the Prime Minister of Israel to send the delegation so that we can hear their ideas. We have our Defense minister in Washington now. I'm sure he's discussing.

This with them.

This with them.

But I think that timing was particularly problematic because of the message that this UN Security Council resolution was sending. It was a very very bad message, both for the hostage negotiations and also we have to be very clear with Hamas. We have to be very clear that we're going to fight this war until the end. And the last thing we want them to believe that the international pressure on Israel will get us to simply not finish the war. That's not going to happen now. I don't decide what the United States will do or won't do. They're a sovereign government, they'll have to make their own decisions. But Israel has to make clear to Hamas did we intend to fight this fight till the very end, and hopefully that pressure they're understanding that we're going to fight this to the end will enable us to get to a hostage deal.

But I think that timing was particularly problematic because of the message that this UN Security Council resolution was sending. It was a very very bad message, both for the hostage negotiations and also we have to be very clear with Hamas. We have to be very clear that we're going to fight this war until the end. And the last thing we want them to believe that the international pressure on Israel will get us to simply not finish the war. That's not going to happen now. I don't decide what the United States will do or won't do. They're a sovereign government, they'll have to make their own decisions. But Israel has to make clear to Hamas did we intend to fight this fight till the very end, and hopefully that pressure they're understanding that we're going to fight this to the end will enable us to get to a hostage deal.

Well, these really defense minister, as you say, is in Washington. We have Benjamin Ettiaho, the Prime Minister, approving a Rafa operation. But the Israeli Defense minister said he had a good meeting with officials in Washington. Did anyone convince anyone on other side to change?

Well, these really defense minister, as you say, is in Washington. We have Benjamin Ettiaho, the Prime Minister, approving a Rafa operation. But the Israeli Defense minister said he had a good meeting with officials in Washington. Did anyone convince anyone on other side to change?

Well, look, we've been in discussions with the US administration for a long time. The initial US policy was essentially not that they're against an operation in Rafa full stop. What they said initially was that Israel has to make efforts to get the civilians out of harms way and to ensure that humanitarian assistants can get to them. And guess what, we agree, and we've been working on a plan to get the civilians out of harms way and to get ramp up humanitarian assistance to them. So this is something where the two governments should be able to get to common ground and should be able to get on.

Well, look, we've been in discussions with the US administration for a long time. The initial US policy was essentially not that they're against an operation in Rafa full stop. What they said initially was that Israel has to make efforts to get the civilians out of harms way and to ensure that humanitarian assistants can get to them. And guess what, we agree, and we've been working on a plan to get the civilians out of harms way and to get ramp up humanitarian assistance to them. So this is something where the two governments should be able to get to common ground and should be able to get on.

The same page.

The same page.

Now, if the position of the United States is there should not be a major military operation in Gaza, then we're not going to be on the same page because we have to go in to Rafa, we have to finish the job. We have to take care of these four battalions. We can lead, leave twenty percent or twenty five percent of the Hamas force in Gaza so they can simply reorganize and comeback. And Israel's major military operations actually have enabled us to do much smaller operations and achieve great success. Look at what happened in Shifa Hospital. I don't know if you're following that, in the northern part of the Gaza strip.

Now, if the position of the United States is there should not be a major military operation in Gaza, then we're not going to be on the same page because we have to go in to Rafa, we have to finish the job. We have to take care of these four battalions. We can lead, leave twenty percent or twenty five percent of the Hamas force in Gaza so they can simply reorganize and comeback. And Israel's major military operations actually have enabled us to do much smaller operations and achieve great success. Look at what happened in Shifa Hospital. I don't know if you're following that, in the northern part of the Gaza strip.

We were there a few months.

We were there a few months.

Ago and we did a major operation just now. We went back last week and we have done one of the most successful operations in Shifa Hospital in our history. Nearly two hundred terrorists were killed there, over eight hundred terrorists were captured, and there have been zero civilian casualties. In fact, there have been more Israeli soldiers too who have died in that operation. Than civilian casualties. Why can't we do that? And I think this is a very important point for your viewers to understand, because once you do the major military operations, once you crush these battalions and defeat them, Israel has to.

Ago and we did a major operation just now. We went back last week and we have done one of the most successful operations in Shifa Hospital in our history. Nearly two hundred terrorists were killed there, over eight hundred terrorists were captured, and there have been zero civilian casualties. In fact, there have been more Israeli soldiers too who have died in that operation. Than civilian casualties. Why can't we do that? And I think this is a very important point for your viewers to understand, because once you do the major military operations, once you crush these battalions and defeat them, Israel has to.

Come in with a much smaller force, much more.

Come in with a much smaller force, much more.

Careful military operations, and achieved great success. That's why it's so important for us to go to Rafah and to finish the job.

Careful military operations, and achieved great success. That's why it's so important for us to go to Rafah and to finish the job.

You keep saying, fight this until the end. People have already talked about when you have people living in dire situations, people who've seen their loved ones being killed, that breeds extremist.

You keep saying, fight this until the end. People have already talked about when you have people living in dire situations, people who've seen their loved ones being killed, that breeds extremist.

Type of behavior.

Type of behavior.

You're already seeing that in certain places that even if you kill Hamas, something else will come in its place because there isn't leadership and there isn't a sense of what the future is. How do you counter those types of discussions? How do you say there is an end that you have in sight?

You're already seeing that in certain places that even if you kill Hamas, something else will come in its place because there isn't leadership and there isn't a sense of what the future is. How do you counter those types of discussions? How do you say there is an end that you have in sight?

Well, first of all, understand what we're trying to achieve.

Well, first of all, understand what we're trying to achieve.

We're trying to destroy Kamas's military in Gaza. They're not a terror organization in Gaza. They're a military terror organization in Gaza, and we have to crush their military and it's divided up into battalions, and we're doing that I think very well. But what you just said about it breeds extremism. I'd ask you, do you think that the action of the United States against the Nazis in Germany?

We're trying to destroy Kamas's military in Gaza. They're not a terror organization in Gaza. They're a military terror organization in Gaza, and we have to crush their military and it's divided up into battalions, and we're doing that I think very well. But what you just said about it breeds extremism. I'd ask you, do you think that the action of the United States against the Nazis in Germany?

Do you think that bred extremism among Germans? Do you think the.

Do you think that bred extremism among Germans? Do you think the.

Actions of the United States in Japan bred extremism? I mean, you were smart enough to first of all finish the job and win the war, and you demanded unconditional surrender to achieve it, and then you were smart enough to be magnanimous in victory and provide a different path for the future. Have to finish the job is what if you not finish the job, the situation will actually be worse. You have to finish the job, defeat them, and then you can talk about a day after. Then we can talk about how we can expand peace in the region, what we should do in the long term prospects of Israelis and Paal sittings. But there will be no day after Hamas if Ramas is still there.

Actions of the United States in Japan bred extremism? I mean, you were smart enough to first of all finish the job and win the war, and you demanded unconditional surrender to achieve it, and then you were smart enough to be magnanimous in victory and provide a different path for the future. Have to finish the job is what if you not finish the job, the situation will actually be worse. You have to finish the job, defeat them, and then you can talk about a day after. Then we can talk about how we can expand peace in the region, what we should do in the long term prospects of Israelis and Paal sittings. But there will be no day after Hamas if Ramas is still there.

That's why we have to finish the job.

That's why we have to finish the job.

I guess that one of the key questions that has been kind of hanging over this is we don't have a clear sense of how you provide that type of structure in any way when you don't have that being provided with respect to who's going to be the leader, with respect to who's going to provide the financing, with respect to even whether there'll be two states and what that will look like with a certain land in the West Bank being seized. So how do you address those kinds of questions that do need to be put into place before you finish the job.

I guess that one of the key questions that has been kind of hanging over this is we don't have a clear sense of how you provide that type of structure in any way when you don't have that being provided with respect to who's going to be the leader, with respect to who's going to provide the financing, with respect to even whether there'll be two states and what that will look like with a certain land in the West Bank being seized. So how do you address those kinds of questions that do need to be put into place before you finish the job.

I don't believe they have to be put in place before you finish the job.

I don't believe they have to be put in place before you finish the job.

In fact, I think just the opposite.

In fact, I think just the opposite.

I think if you try to put the that in place now, you can actually undermine the effort to get to a real good day after plan afterwards, because first everybody has to understand that Hamas and Gaza is finished. Until they understand that, no one will step forward. So you're going to actually have a plan that's going to be stillborn the second you win. That's the time when the international community, obviously led by the United States, Israel, Ara partners in the region, have to come in and say, Okay, what do we do now? Now Hamas is defeated, in Gaza. What is the next step to think that anyone is going to emerge now when you have four terrorist battalions of Hamas and Gaza, maybe around fifteen thousand terrorists fighting there, and that somebody is going to step forward kidding themselves. We saw what happened in the northern part of the Gaza strip when we try to work with local actors. Hamas took them out and executed them. That's what's going to happen until we finish the job. That's why I think it is in the interest of all countries who not only are interested in israel security, but interested in a better future for the Palestinians to get Israel to finish the job as quickly as possible so we can move on to a day after. And the truth is, we have real partners in the region for that day after.

I think if you try to put the that in place now, you can actually undermine the effort to get to a real good day after plan afterwards, because first everybody has to understand that Hamas and Gaza is finished. Until they understand that, no one will step forward. So you're going to actually have a plan that's going to be stillborn the second you win. That's the time when the international community, obviously led by the United States, Israel, Ara partners in the region, have to come in and say, Okay, what do we do now? Now Hamas is defeated, in Gaza. What is the next step to think that anyone is going to emerge now when you have four terrorist battalions of Hamas and Gaza, maybe around fifteen thousand terrorists fighting there, and that somebody is going to step forward kidding themselves. We saw what happened in the northern part of the Gaza strip when we try to work with local actors. Hamas took them out and executed them. That's what's going to happen until we finish the job. That's why I think it is in the interest of all countries who not only are interested in israel security, but interested in a better future for the Palestinians to get Israel to finish the job as quickly as possible so we can move on to a day after. And the truth is, we have real partners in the region for that day after.

I think the are a partner.

I think the are a partner.

I think the Amarades are a partner. I think they are starting and they've worked to deradicalize their own societies. I think we need to look for them into their leadership to see what we can do in a day after, and then we can talk about all of those political issues. But first we have to get to a day after. We have to finish the job. You cannot leave that force in Gaza. It would be like, as one Israeli minister said, Minister against He said, it would be like fighting eighty percent of a fire, leaving twenty percent of the fire and simply hoping that it's.

I think the Amarades are a partner. I think they are starting and they've worked to deradicalize their own societies. I think we need to look for them into their leadership to see what we can do in a day after, and then we can talk about all of those political issues. But first we have to get to a day after. We have to finish the job. You cannot leave that force in Gaza. It would be like, as one Israeli minister said, Minister against He said, it would be like fighting eighty percent of a fire, leaving twenty percent of the fire and simply hoping that it's.

Not going to come back. Of course it'll come back.

Not going to come back. Of course it'll come back.

We have to douse these flames and then we can talk about the day after.

We have to douse these flames and then we can talk about the day after.

Minista, I know we only have a few minutes left with you. I had a few direct questions to work through with you, if I may. The Vice President of the United States spoke over the weekend. Here's a quote from her. Any major military operation in Rafa would be a huge mistake. I'm not trying to understand from your site why you think that's not a mistake. I'm trying to understand now what the consequences would be if you cross that perceived red line. Now, have they communicated what the consequences would be for Israel and the relationship between you and the United States? Have you heard anything whatsoever?

Minista, I know we only have a few minutes left with you. I had a few direct questions to work through with you, if I may. The Vice President of the United States spoke over the weekend. Here's a quote from her. Any major military operation in Rafa would be a huge mistake. I'm not trying to understand from your site why you think that's not a mistake. I'm trying to understand now what the consequences would be if you cross that perceived red line. Now, have they communicated what the consequences would be for Israel and the relationship between you and the United States? Have you heard anything whatsoever?

No, they haven't communicated that with this, But I can tell you, John, what the consequences will be if we don't go in and finish the job. It'll be that October seventh will happen again and again and again. People in the United States have to understand that the people of Israel see what happened on October seventh as an extent, as an existential threat to the country.

No, they haven't communicated that with this, But I can tell you, John, what the consequences will be if we don't go in and finish the job. It'll be that October seventh will happen again and again and again. People in the United States have to understand that the people of Israel see what happened on October seventh as an extent, as an existential threat to the country.

And I'll explain to you what I mean. It's not because I think.

And I'll explain to you what I mean. It's not because I think.

Hamas can destroy the State of Israel. They cannot. But if we do not destroy the terror organization that did that on October seventh, if we do not take them out as a military organization in Gaza, then I truly believe that this country has no future Because all the buzzards who are circling around Israel and are looking to see what's going to happen to Hamas after they perpetrated that attack, they have to understand that Hamas is a terror organization in Gaza, as a military is finished. You know, they are American officials. This happened a couple months ago. A senior official came and he said, you know, Hamas is an idea, and you can't destroy idea. And I countered by saying, you know, Nazism is an idea and there are Nazis in Charlottesville walking around with tiki torches that they bought at bed Bath and beyond.

Hamas can destroy the State of Israel. They cannot. But if we do not destroy the terror organization that did that on October seventh, if we do not take them out as a military organization in Gaza, then I truly believe that this country has no future Because all the buzzards who are circling around Israel and are looking to see what's going to happen to Hamas after they perpetrated that attack, they have to understand that Hamas is a terror organization in Gaza, as a military is finished. You know, they are American officials. This happened a couple months ago. A senior official came and he said, you know, Hamas is an idea, and you can't destroy idea. And I countered by saying, you know, Nazism is an idea and there are Nazis in Charlottesville walking around with tiki torches that they bought at bed Bath and beyond.

But they don't have a state called Germany.

But they don't have a state called Germany.

ISIS is an idea, and there are people who follow ISIS. You saw the attack in Moscow just a few days ago, and there are black flags that are in bedrooms, probably not just in the Middle East, but in Europe and even places in.

ISIS is an idea, and there are people who follow ISIS. You saw the attack in Moscow just a few days ago, and there are black flags that are in bedrooms, probably not just in the Middle East, but in Europe and even places in.

The United States. But they don't have a state.

The United States. But they don't have a state.

They don't control the territory of a caliphate between Iraq and Syria. It is one thing to deal with a terror organization is It's another thing to deal with a military that is a terror group. That's a total different story. And we're going to dismantle comases military regime in Gaza. It's gonna happen, and I would like to have the United States by our side. They've been there for the last five months, five and a half months, with critical support out of the gate. The moral clarity of the President calling a hamas sheher evil. Worse than isis the fact that they send aircraft carriers here that the President himself visited ten days into the war, where we could have had an escalation in the northern part with Hezbella.

They don't control the territory of a caliphate between Iraq and Syria. It is one thing to deal with a terror organization is It's another thing to deal with a military that is a terror group. That's a total different story. And we're going to dismantle comases military regime in Gaza. It's gonna happen, and I would like to have the United States by our side. They've been there for the last five months, five and a half months, with critical support out of the gate. The moral clarity of the President calling a hamas sheher evil. Worse than isis the fact that they send aircraft carriers here that the President himself visited ten days into the war, where we could have had an escalation in the northern part with Hezbella.

So they've done very important things.

So they've done very important things.

And what I would and what I have implored them, is to stand with Israel until the end, because we're going to achieve this victory. And I think it's not only an Israel's interest to achieve that victory. I think it's an America's interest to achieve that victory because they've been part of this through the prom They've been part of this victory up until now, and now we're down the home stretch. I think, stand with us. Let us finish the job and let's get to a day after where we could actually have a real peace process that can give hope not just to Israelis but also to Palestinians.

And what I would and what I have implored them, is to stand with Israel until the end, because we're going to achieve this victory. And I think it's not only an Israel's interest to achieve that victory. I think it's an America's interest to achieve that victory because they've been part of this through the prom They've been part of this victory up until now, and now we're down the home stretch. I think, stand with us. Let us finish the job and let's get to a day after where we could actually have a real peace process that can give hope not just to Israelis but also to Palestinians.

Minister, this is a conversation that you and I will have to continue the requires a. Heck, have a lot more time than the ten minutes we just had. Run Tom, thank you, sir for joining us today. The Israel Strategics minista more upside surprises in America, Let's get said the chafe US economist Andrew Haldenhoe to break down some of this. Andrew, you listen to my mcase breakdown of it as your first reaction to it.

Minister, this is a conversation that you and I will have to continue the requires a. Heck, have a lot more time than the ten minutes we just had. Run Tom, thank you, sir for joining us today. The Israel Strategics minista more upside surprises in America, Let's get said the chafe US economist Andrew Haldenhoe to break down some of this. Andrew, you listen to my mcase breakdown of it as your first reaction to it.

Please yeah, I mean, I think, like Mike, I would emphasize that these numbers have really been bounced around by aircraft, by autos. You want to kind of look at the core of it, and what are we seeing at the core? Is week not too exciting, not too positive on the shipment side. We saw that this morning.

Please yeah, I mean, I think, like Mike, I would emphasize that these numbers have really been bounced around by aircraft, by autos. You want to kind of look at the core of it, and what are we seeing at the core? Is week not too exciting, not too positive on the shipment side. We saw that this morning.

Again.

Again.

I think if you look at the various manufacturing diffusion indices, they've bottomed, they've come off of the bottom, but they're still sitting close to contractionary territory or in contractionary territory. So I don't think we're really changing the narrative around CAPEX here.

I think if you look at the various manufacturing diffusion indices, they've bottomed, they've come off of the bottom, but they're still sitting close to contractionary territory or in contractionary territory. So I don't think we're really changing the narrative around CAPEX here.

We're all super familiar with your research. One thing that's come up throughout this year, and I keep sing in every single note that you send down this economy is going to slow down, slow down by such an amount that this federal Reserve is going to need to cut interest rates. You're still thinking about endcycle type stuff, dynamics that are going to become more apparent and obvious through the year. What's leading to that conclusion for you?

We're all super familiar with your research. One thing that's come up throughout this year, and I keep sing in every single note that you send down this economy is going to slow down, slow down by such an amount that this federal Reserve is going to need to cut interest rates. You're still thinking about endcycle type stuff, dynamics that are going to become more apparent and obvious through the year. What's leading to that conclusion for you?

It's really the labor market. It's really what we're seeing in the labor market where you're seeing things like ours work that are coming down, a hiring rate that's coming down. I think that's why we heard share Powell saying in his evaluation of the data, it's not that we're weakening yet, and I would agree with that, but the labor market is his emphasis. In terms of a point of concern, it would be mine also.

It's really the labor market. It's really what we're seeing in the labor market where you're seeing things like ours work that are coming down, a hiring rate that's coming down. I think that's why we heard share Powell saying in his evaluation of the data, it's not that we're weakening yet, and I would agree with that, but the labor market is his emphasis. In terms of a point of concern, it would be mine also.

So do you think that at this point he had the right message? The market's gotten it and it's only us it's kind of trying to understand and freak out around him.

So do you think that at this point he had the right message? The market's gotten it and it's only us it's kind of trying to understand and freak out around him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think one thing that was probably constructive that Shair Powell tried to do and that the Committee is trying to do, is to get away from responding to each individual data point as it comes in. That's a very difficult way to set policy. They're kind of trying to tell us that we're on a path to get to rate cuts now inflation has come down enough that they think that they can be cutting interest rates. Now, it's not all clear that inflation's returned to two percent with some of these supply side disruptions. It's a good reminder of why they're still upside risks to inflation.

I mean, I think one thing that was probably constructive that Shair Powell tried to do and that the Committee is trying to do, is to get away from responding to each individual data point as it comes in. That's a very difficult way to set policy. They're kind of trying to tell us that we're on a path to get to rate cuts now inflation has come down enough that they think that they can be cutting interest rates. Now, it's not all clear that inflation's returned to two percent with some of these supply side disruptions. It's a good reminder of why they're still upside risks to inflation.

Let's sit on that for a minute, because really this is really dominating my thoughts right now is the Baltimore Bridge and what that means for infrastructure spending. What that means for some of the importance right now of getting more spending has tried to us at a time with the deficit, as John Righty said, is like having fifteen big mac So at what point do you see this as an inflationary type of impulse where the US has to keep borrowing to keep investing to prop up certain industries at the expense potentially of bond heels and inflation.

Let's sit on that for a minute, because really this is really dominating my thoughts right now is the Baltimore Bridge and what that means for infrastructure spending. What that means for some of the importance right now of getting more spending has tried to us at a time with the deficit, as John Righty said, is like having fifteen big mac So at what point do you see this as an inflationary type of impulse where the US has to keep borrowing to keep investing to prop up certain industries at the expense potentially of bond heels and inflation.

Yeah, this comes back to the idea of fiscal space. Right We usually don't really worry too much about fiscal space in the US because politically there always seems to be more space to do more spending. But when you've already done a lot of spending, when you've already put a lot of stimulus into the economy, then when you have real shocks to the economy, clearly no one would disagree that we should be rebuilding this bridge, that we should be investing in infrastructure, But that spending, to John's point, is going to come on top of a large deficit that we're already running. So I think that's where you really get into difficulties potentially politically but also economically. Is that also increasing price pressures in the short term and the long term investing in infrastructure is going to be deflationary positive for productivity, but in the short term you need to hire people, you need to source material and inputs, and that puts upward pressure on prices.

Yeah, this comes back to the idea of fiscal space. Right We usually don't really worry too much about fiscal space in the US because politically there always seems to be more space to do more spending. But when you've already done a lot of spending, when you've already put a lot of stimulus into the economy, then when you have real shocks to the economy, clearly no one would disagree that we should be rebuilding this bridge, that we should be investing in infrastructure, But that spending, to John's point, is going to come on top of a large deficit that we're already running. So I think that's where you really get into difficulties potentially politically but also economically. Is that also increasing price pressures in the short term and the long term investing in infrastructure is going to be deflationary positive for productivity, but in the short term you need to hire people, you need to source material and inputs, and that puts upward pressure on prices.

Public debt situation. Most urgent I can ever remember is from Larry Fink this morning. What do you think this does in terms of the impact.

Public debt situation. Most urgent I can ever remember is from Larry Fink this morning. What do you think this does in terms of the impact.

Of a dollar.

Of a dollar.

Yeah, I think that that is something that's increasingly in focus. I think we saw a bit of that last year. We saw it maybe less in currencies, we saw it more in treasury yields, where you had the tenure yield there was upwards of five percent, And I think that was some foreign investor concern that is this a country that is going to run sustainable deficits. They certainly do not look sustainable right now. That's ultimately an issue for the currency.

Yeah, I think that that is something that's increasingly in focus. I think we saw a bit of that last year. We saw it maybe less in currencies, we saw it more in treasury yields, where you had the tenure yield there was upwards of five percent, And I think that was some foreign investor concern that is this a country that is going to run sustainable deficits. They certainly do not look sustainable right now. That's ultimately an issue for the currency.

Also, I want to build on on LEAs this line of questioning around this port in Baltimore and what could develop in the East Coast in the weeks and months to come. Can you help us understand just frame briefly, how strong the tail winds are that disinflation retail winds in goods at the moment in America, because there was some sign in the last few months and maybe that's fading, And I just wonder how vulnerable we are to maybe a reacceleration in goods prices off the back of a development like this one this morning.

Also, I want to build on on LEAs this line of questioning around this port in Baltimore and what could develop in the East Coast in the weeks and months to come. Can you help us understand just frame briefly, how strong the tail winds are that disinflation retail winds in goods at the moment in America, because there was some sign in the last few months and maybe that's fading, And I just wonder how vulnerable we are to maybe a reacceleration in goods prices off the back of a development like this one this morning.

Yeah, I think it's a really important thing to draw attention to because a lot of the disinflation that we've had has been that goods price disinflation, and that was energy prices coming down.

Yeah, I think it's a really important thing to draw attention to because a lot of the disinflation that we've had has been that goods price disinflation, and that was energy prices coming down.

That was supply.

That was supply.

Constraints that had been constraining supply and boosting prices that were relaxing.

Constraints that had been constraining supply and boosting prices that were relaxing.

Look at where we are now.

Look at where we are now.

We have gasoline prices that are rising, that are projected to rize further into the summer. We now have this supply side disruption related to the port in Baltimore that would also indicate that, if anything, goods prices.

We have gasoline prices that are rising, that are projected to rize further into the summer. We now have this supply side disruption related to the port in Baltimore that would also indicate that, if anything, goods prices.

Could be higher.

Could be higher.

We already know about the Panama Canal, we know about the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, and we saw on the last inflation report. To your point, core goods prices came up. They've been coming down. They came up in the last report. It doesn't mean they're going to come up in every report. But this period of deflation and goods that we've been in for the last six months or so, we're probably coming out of that now.

We already know about the Panama Canal, we know about the Red Sea and the Suez Canal, and we saw on the last inflation report. To your point, core goods prices came up. They've been coming down. They came up in the last report. It doesn't mean they're going to come up in every report. But this period of deflation and goods that we've been in for the last six months or so, we're probably coming out of that now.

Do you think services can do the heavy lifting as that develops on the good side?

Do you think services can do the heavy lifting as that develops on the good side?

So I think that's what you need to happen. Have happened to bring inflation down, So in some ways, this kind of idea that the labor market is softening, you really need to see that continue to bring inflation overall down, which is a very unfortunate scenario. We'd like to have a strong labor market and we like to have inflation come down. There's a reason it hasn't happened historically. If goods are going to be less disinflationary, less deflationary, then services needed to pick up for that, and that has to be through a software labor mark.

So I think that's what you need to happen. Have happened to bring inflation down, So in some ways, this kind of idea that the labor market is softening, you really need to see that continue to bring inflation overall down, which is a very unfortunate scenario. We'd like to have a strong labor market and we like to have inflation come down. There's a reason it hasn't happened historically. If goods are going to be less disinflationary, less deflationary, then services needed to pick up for that, and that has to be through a software labor mark.

What I hear from you is different to what I heard from the chairman. Is that fair?

What I hear from you is different to what I heard from the chairman. Is that fair?

I think that's fair.

I think that's fair.

So basically you're saying to get inflation back to target, we need a recession.

So basically you're saying to get inflation back to target, we need a recession.

That's still the most likely way you bring inflation back to target. Is there some probability that you get a true soft landing. Sure, there's some probability, but I think what we're seeing is just consistent with the idea that wage growth is kind of stalled out around four to five percent by various different measures. If you want wage growth to discelerate further, the labor market probably needs to soften.

That's still the most likely way you bring inflation back to target. Is there some probability that you get a true soft landing. Sure, there's some probability, but I think what we're seeing is just consistent with the idea that wage growth is kind of stalled out around four to five percent by various different measures. If you want wage growth to discelerate further, the labor market probably needs to soften.

From you disruptions like what we're going to see inevitably, either on a very small term or potentially medium term with respect to the Baltimore Bridge and shipping passages, we've seen shipping disrupted in general. Does that make it more or less likely we'll get the recession that you're talking about to bring inflation under control.

From you disruptions like what we're going to see inevitably, either on a very small term or potentially medium term with respect to the Baltimore Bridge and shipping passages, we've seen shipping disrupted in general. Does that make it more or less likely we'll get the recession that you're talking about to bring inflation under control.

So the worst thing that can happen for the economy of the worst thing that can happen for the FED are these kind of supply side shocks, because what they do is they reduce the productive capacity of the US economy and they boost inflation at the same time. So it's negative for growth and it means you get higher inflation. That's different than a demand shock, where you get stronger growth and you get higher inflation. That's kind of been where we've been.

So the worst thing that can happen for the economy of the worst thing that can happen for the FED are these kind of supply side shocks, because what they do is they reduce the productive capacity of the US economy and they boost inflation at the same time. So it's negative for growth and it means you get higher inflation. That's different than a demand shock, where you get stronger growth and you get higher inflation. That's kind of been where we've been.

But this goes to something that John was talking about if we get that kind of stagflationary shock, which is essentially what you're describing, are the FEDS hands tied or have they made it clear that they're going to air on the side of supporting the economy and the labor market over continuing the.

But this goes to something that John was talking about if we get that kind of stagflationary shock, which is essentially what you're describing, are the FEDS hands tied or have they made it clear that they're going to air on the side of supporting the economy and the labor market over continuing the.

Fight for inflation.

Fight for inflation.

I think they're in a transition here. But what they're transitioning to is this increased emphasis on the labor market on the economy, the idea which we saw in their summary of economic projections, inflation can run closer to three percent than two percent, and they still plant to cut rates. That's what they have in their projections.

I think they're in a transition here. But what they're transitioning to is this increased emphasis on the labor market on the economy, the idea which we saw in their summary of economic projections, inflation can run closer to three percent than two percent, and they still plant to cut rates. That's what they have in their projections.

Now.

Now.

If that number sneaks up a little bit higher on core inflation at the end of this year, and I suspect it will over the course of the year, I think they'll still be cutting.

If that number sneaks up a little bit higher on core inflation at the end of this year, and I suspect it will over the course of the year, I think they'll still be cutting.

Some debate this morning about whether the Federer serve is basically saying they've got a high tolerance for inflation. I'd love your response to that. We caught it with Barclay's earlier this morning and kind of push back against that view. Others have endorsed it. Mohammadd Aaron said this could be the beginning of a long story, but the beginning of a story that suggests this FED is now targeting a range and not a point target. Can I get your view on that?

Some debate this morning about whether the Federer serve is basically saying they've got a high tolerance for inflation. I'd love your response to that. We caught it with Barclay's earlier this morning and kind of push back against that view. Others have endorsed it. Mohammadd Aaron said this could be the beginning of a long story, but the beginning of a story that suggests this FED is now targeting a range and not a point target. Can I get your view on that?

Yeah, I think implicitly that's true. Explicitly, are we going to hear FED officials come out and say, you know what, we've got uncomfortable being away from target to the upside? I don't think we're going to hear that in the near term. But this idea that they can accept somewhat stronger inflation, I think everybody would basically say, yeah, two and a half percent inflation, that's close enough to two percent inflation. Now the problem that you get to is, well, is three percent close enough to two and a half percent? Is four percent close enough to three percent? And we're kind of in that region now. I think it is a transition though, where they're moving more towards this kind of labor market concern, economy concern, and the reality is that they will accept higher inflation.

Yeah, I think implicitly that's true. Explicitly, are we going to hear FED officials come out and say, you know what, we've got uncomfortable being away from target to the upside? I don't think we're going to hear that in the near term. But this idea that they can accept somewhat stronger inflation, I think everybody would basically say, yeah, two and a half percent inflation, that's close enough to two percent inflation. Now the problem that you get to is, well, is three percent close enough to two and a half percent? Is four percent close enough to three percent? And we're kind of in that region now. I think it is a transition though, where they're moving more towards this kind of labor market concern, economy concern, and the reality is that they will accept higher inflation.

The issue with that, and you know it well, once you begin to give signs, even if you don't say it explicitly, doesn't that make it harder to get back down it even more?

The issue with that, and you know it well, once you begin to give signs, even if you don't say it explicitly, doesn't that make it harder to get back down it even more?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Absolutely, this can easily lock US into not just a short period, but but really a new regime where inflation is higher, more elevated, or more volatile.

Absolutely, this can easily lock US into not just a short period, but but really a new regime where inflation is higher, more elevated, or more volatile.

This switch in Bianco of Bianca Research was talking about yesterday. In fact, I'd go back almost a full twelve months. Richard Clarender in a second outlook for Pimco coming out and saying this FED is going to be accept two points somethink, which sounded controversial at the time, and it's almost consensus now on Wall Street.

This switch in Bianco of Bianca Research was talking about yesterday. In fact, I'd go back almost a full twelve months. Richard Clarender in a second outlook for Pimco coming out and saying this FED is going to be accept two points somethink, which sounded controversial at the time, and it's almost consensus now on Wall Street.

And it's led to this incredible euphoria that people are pointing to in markets because you're basically having the FED that's got your back and you can eat your cake and have it too. What is the consequence of that? Is it inflation that's not two point something but it's three points something to Andrew's point, And then at what point does the FED have to say bastard enough, like we got to actually do something and hold raise higher.

And it's led to this incredible euphoria that people are pointing to in markets because you're basically having the FED that's got your back and you can eat your cake and have it too. What is the consequence of that? Is it inflation that's not two point something but it's three points something to Andrew's point, And then at what point does the FED have to say bastard enough, like we got to actually do something and hold raise higher.

Need to put an Italian on the FMC, don't we? Andrew? Thank you, Andrew hartenhaus A City. This is the Bloomberg Seventans podcast, bringing you the best in markets, economics, and geo politics. You can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV weekday mornings from six am to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen, and as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.

Need to put an Italian on the FMC, don't we? Andrew? Thank you, Andrew hartenhaus A City. This is the Bloomberg Seventans podcast, bringing you the best in markets, economics, and geo politics. You can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV weekday mornings from six am to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen, and as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.