You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays at one in seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays at one in seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. This week we bust a myth about working from home, that your employee may actually be working a second full time job. And we'll look at the vaccine rollout for the fall and how the US deserves better, plus how becoming a celebrity scientist can backfire on you. But let's begin with how women can be an asset in the fight against inflation. About seventy five percent of women in their prime working years are employed, and that is a record high. Women are playing a crucial role in helping ease labor shortages and alleviating upward pressure on inflation, especially mothers of young children. Now you might recall a couple of years ago when the White House announced thirty nine billion dollars in funds to help childcare efforts and keep childcare centers open during the pandemic. Then Press Secretary Jansaki pointed to the millions of women who left the workforce at the time because of the pandemic.

Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. This week we bust a myth about working from home, that your employee may actually be working a second full time job. And we'll look at the vaccine rollout for the fall and how the US deserves better, plus how becoming a celebrity scientist can backfire on you. But let's begin with how women can be an asset in the fight against inflation. About seventy five percent of women in their prime working years are employed, and that is a record high. Women are playing a crucial role in helping ease labor shortages and alleviating upward pressure on inflation, especially mothers of young children. Now you might recall a couple of years ago when the White House announced thirty nine billion dollars in funds to help childcare efforts and keep childcare centers open during the pandemic. Then Press Secretary Jansaki pointed to the millions of women who left the workforce at the time because of the pandemic.

These funds will help early childhood educators and family childcare providers keep their doors open and make sure every state has a strong child's care system that provides families with what they need. Since the start of the pandemic, as we've talked about a bit in here, roughly two million women have left the workforce. That is disproportionately due to caregiving needs. And we're hopeful that this will help.

These funds will help early childhood educators and family childcare providers keep their doors open and make sure every state has a strong child's care system that provides families with what they need. Since the start of the pandemic, as we've talked about a bit in here, roughly two million women have left the workforce. That is disproportionately due to caregiving needs. And we're hopeful that this will help.

And while women have made a comeback in the workforce, those childcare funds are ending. Let's learn more about this. Bloomberg Opinion columnist Claudia sam is founder of Some Consulting and a former Federal Reserve economist. She joins me now, Claudia, it's worth noting that at the start of the pandemic it was women mostly who stayed home to take care of the family. So this record employment rate that you cite in your column is impressive.

And while women have made a comeback in the workforce, those childcare funds are ending. Let's learn more about this. Bloomberg Opinion columnist Claudia sam is founder of Some Consulting and a former Federal Reserve economist. She joins me now, Claudia, it's worth noting that at the start of the pandemic it was women mostly who stayed home to take care of the family. So this record employment rate that you cite in your column is impressive.

Rights it is impressive. Women really came from behind in the pandemic, both because they lost jobs at a much higher pace than men because primarily women are more represented in the service sector, and that's what got shut down and then also millions of women left the labor market, and a large portion of that was for caregiving responsibilities that became didn't have the childcare that was reliable, the schools were closed, and we are at a point now where the employment rate of prime age women, so aged twenty five to fifty four, is at the highest it has ever been, so seventy percent of women in that group are working now. That has been a huge help to reducing the labor shortages that we've seen because again they're coming back in the service sector work and some of the supports that have been put in place to help women get back on their feet and have their family caregiving taken care of, like these childcare subsidies, they're over and that there's a real question as to whether the advances that they've made with jobs and with other being part of the labor market, if that's going to slip away or if we're going to just slide back to some extent. Another important piece, and we've seen this across a number of groups that have historically had some difficulties getting jobs, is that we have had a great labor market, so employers part of getting women back with employers being more open minded about how flexible they could make the jobs, how good the pay could be. I mean, there are childcare options out there, but you've got to be able to afford them. So there are some aspects of how women got ahead that didn't slip away last month entirely with the childcare now these subsidies, and I think people might remember that there was a talk of big childcare programs getting money to families with the build back better and that didn't happen.

Rights it is impressive. Women really came from behind in the pandemic, both because they lost jobs at a much higher pace than men because primarily women are more represented in the service sector, and that's what got shut down and then also millions of women left the labor market, and a large portion of that was for caregiving responsibilities that became didn't have the childcare that was reliable, the schools were closed, and we are at a point now where the employment rate of prime age women, so aged twenty five to fifty four, is at the highest it has ever been, so seventy percent of women in that group are working now. That has been a huge help to reducing the labor shortages that we've seen because again they're coming back in the service sector work and some of the supports that have been put in place to help women get back on their feet and have their family caregiving taken care of, like these childcare subsidies, they're over and that there's a real question as to whether the advances that they've made with jobs and with other being part of the labor market, if that's going to slip away or if we're going to just slide back to some extent. Another important piece, and we've seen this across a number of groups that have historically had some difficulties getting jobs, is that we have had a great labor market, so employers part of getting women back with employers being more open minded about how flexible they could make the jobs, how good the pay could be. I mean, there are childcare options out there, but you've got to be able to afford them. So there are some aspects of how women got ahead that didn't slip away last month entirely with the childcare now these subsidies, and I think people might remember that there was a talk of big childcare programs getting money to families with the build back better and that didn't happen.

And so this.

And so this.

Program is its aim was to keep the childcare centers that we had open.

Program is its aim was to keep the childcare centers that we had open.

Now the point of your column, the meat of it is about how women are a neglected asset in the fight against inflation. What is it that women bring to the table that helps in that fight?

Now the point of your column, the meat of it is about how women are a neglected asset in the fight against inflation. What is it that women bring to the table that helps in that fight?

Right as you said, the piece is really taking the twenty thousand foot view of what are we missing, not so much the struggle of the families, which are real in terms of the caregiving. What's the benefit to the entire country if we get more women involved, given in the example a very topical one of the labor shortages and dealing with the inflation, that's just scratching the surface. I mean, that's the one inflation. Inflation is everything we're thinking about now, and yet we there's long term growth and productivity. These are the these are the big ones right in terms of where where we're going to be ten years, twenty years from now. One aspect of this cost equation of not bringing women in is the fact that over time we're at a place where women are more likely than men to be receiving higher and higher education. And so these women have invested Our schools and universities have invested a lot in them in terms of getting what you know, quote unquote marketable skills, like certain things that they could apply at work, and then we're not helping them get work to a place where they can be a part of it. So you've left this kind of money on the table in terms of people that really have something to add in the workforce. We're not allowing many women and to make a choice not to Like I don't you know, we shouldn't be forcing everyone to work, but there are many women who were not giving them a chance to realize their full potential. That costs them in terms of career opportunities and wages, and it costs all of us in terms of not having being as productive as we could be.

Right as you said, the piece is really taking the twenty thousand foot view of what are we missing, not so much the struggle of the families, which are real in terms of the caregiving. What's the benefit to the entire country if we get more women involved, given in the example a very topical one of the labor shortages and dealing with the inflation, that's just scratching the surface. I mean, that's the one inflation. Inflation is everything we're thinking about now, and yet we there's long term growth and productivity. These are the these are the big ones right in terms of where where we're going to be ten years, twenty years from now. One aspect of this cost equation of not bringing women in is the fact that over time we're at a place where women are more likely than men to be receiving higher and higher education. And so these women have invested Our schools and universities have invested a lot in them in terms of getting what you know, quote unquote marketable skills, like certain things that they could apply at work, and then we're not helping them get work to a place where they can be a part of it. So you've left this kind of money on the table in terms of people that really have something to add in the workforce. We're not allowing many women and to make a choice not to Like I don't you know, we shouldn't be forcing everyone to work, but there are many women who were not giving them a chance to realize their full potential. That costs them in terms of career opportunities and wages, and it costs all of us in terms of not having being as productive as we could be.

So let's flip it on its head. Then what is the risk as women are removed from that equation.

So let's flip it on its head. Then what is the risk as women are removed from that equation.

Again, and it's this loss of potential and we know what we can do better. We can compare ourselves to other countries that have made a concerted effort, like they understand getting women into the workforce benefits everyone in the United States, whereas we were on the leaderboard a couple decades ago, that is no longer the case. And there were very different kinds of social programs, very different kinds of goals set for bringing women in. So we can't make the excuse that it's just like, oh, women don't want to work, Oh this is the best we can do. That's absolutely not the case. The policies, it's tricky, right, and some of these very much sit with the private sector in terms of and businesses are losing out right. They're not bringing in the workers, they're not allowing again, they're not allowing the workers to reach their full potential. This I think it was very timely. I didn't foresee this that Professor Claudia Golden Yesay received the Nobel Prize and Economics. Claudia's lifetime career has been focused on women and work and among other areas that she studied. And one thing, and there's a piece of the column that is very much inspired by knowing her research, is that it's not just that women can't get the child care. It's often the jobs are set up the women just can't do them right. They have inflexible hours, and you think of a lot of professional degrees where you need to be able to drop everything when the phone rings and the client needs something, and you have to stay late for the dinners and do things that are just not conducive to someone who has caregiving responsibilities or woman right. And so she talked about just we have these barriers, sometimes ones we don't even think about that keep women from being there. And then they are also ones that it's like do you really need that or your operation, your business to be productive. And so this is on you know, there are a lot of social programs that could help, not holding my breath when a lot of those happening. There are a lot of private sector solutions. Part of the column is to try and emphasize why we all benefit, why employers would benefit from making accommodations so that people with childcare responsibilities or other limitations kind of with a standard day to day of work schedule. In some of these jobs, employers have a lot of control over how they set up their work. And we know with things like the work from home, which have benefited women among other groups, like these accommodations can work. This was proof of concept here, So then there are others out there.

Again, and it's this loss of potential and we know what we can do better. We can compare ourselves to other countries that have made a concerted effort, like they understand getting women into the workforce benefits everyone in the United States, whereas we were on the leaderboard a couple decades ago, that is no longer the case. And there were very different kinds of social programs, very different kinds of goals set for bringing women in. So we can't make the excuse that it's just like, oh, women don't want to work, Oh this is the best we can do. That's absolutely not the case. The policies, it's tricky, right, and some of these very much sit with the private sector in terms of and businesses are losing out right. They're not bringing in the workers, they're not allowing again, they're not allowing the workers to reach their full potential. This I think it was very timely. I didn't foresee this that Professor Claudia Golden Yesay received the Nobel Prize and Economics. Claudia's lifetime career has been focused on women and work and among other areas that she studied. And one thing, and there's a piece of the column that is very much inspired by knowing her research, is that it's not just that women can't get the child care. It's often the jobs are set up the women just can't do them right. They have inflexible hours, and you think of a lot of professional degrees where you need to be able to drop everything when the phone rings and the client needs something, and you have to stay late for the dinners and do things that are just not conducive to someone who has caregiving responsibilities or woman right. And so she talked about just we have these barriers, sometimes ones we don't even think about that keep women from being there. And then they are also ones that it's like do you really need that or your operation, your business to be productive. And so this is on you know, there are a lot of social programs that could help, not holding my breath when a lot of those happening. There are a lot of private sector solutions. Part of the column is to try and emphasize why we all benefit, why employers would benefit from making accommodations so that people with childcare responsibilities or other limitations kind of with a standard day to day of work schedule. In some of these jobs, employers have a lot of control over how they set up their work. And we know with things like the work from home, which have benefited women among other groups, like these accommodations can work. This was proof of concept here, So then there are others out there.

The numbers at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco found during its assessment. Let's just go over those numbers very briefly, if we could, and kind of hammer that point home that you're trying to make in your column about what this could mean.

The numbers at the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco found during its assessment. Let's just go over those numbers very briefly, if we could, and kind of hammer that point home that you're trying to make in your column about what this could mean.

That's an excellent piece that came out of San Francisco. They looked at women, they also looked at racial minorities and thinking about this integration, and they did it on lots of dimensions. Essentially, it was if we could get women working on a lot of different dimensions, you know, their wages, their participation, their hours, if we could have them engaged in the labor market in the same way that men are, what would that look like. And again, this wasn't about the individuals and how would that affect their day to day life. And their careers. It was about how would it affect the economy, how would it affect GDP for women alone. They estimated that closing all of these gaps would have increased GDP in twenty nineteen by about eight percent one point seven trillion dollars. And this is something that would grow over time, so it's not just to pay off at one point in time. It would push up GDP. It's over time. And what is GDP It is our ability to produce goods or services. So it goes back to this idea that we as a country are not fulfilling our potential or full potential if we don't integrate women into the workforce.

That's an excellent piece that came out of San Francisco. They looked at women, they also looked at racial minorities and thinking about this integration, and they did it on lots of dimensions. Essentially, it was if we could get women working on a lot of different dimensions, you know, their wages, their participation, their hours, if we could have them engaged in the labor market in the same way that men are, what would that look like. And again, this wasn't about the individuals and how would that affect their day to day life. And their careers. It was about how would it affect the economy, how would it affect GDP for women alone. They estimated that closing all of these gaps would have increased GDP in twenty nineteen by about eight percent one point seven trillion dollars. And this is something that would grow over time, so it's not just to pay off at one point in time. It would push up GDP. It's over time. And what is GDP It is our ability to produce goods or services. So it goes back to this idea that we as a country are not fulfilling our potential or full potential if we don't integrate women into the workforce.

Claudia, thank you so much for taking the time with us today. We appreciate it. Thank you, Bloomberg Opinion columnists. Claudia sam is founder of Some Consulting, a former Federal Reserve economist, and the creator of the sm rule that's a recession indicator. Now coming up, we're going to take a look at work from home and one big myth, how many of your employees are actually moonlighting when they work from home. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion.

Claudia, thank you so much for taking the time with us today. We appreciate it. Thank you, Bloomberg Opinion columnists. Claudia sam is founder of Some Consulting, a former Federal Reserve economist, and the creator of the sm rule that's a recession indicator. Now coming up, we're going to take a look at work from home and one big myth, how many of your employees are actually moonlighting when they work from home. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion.

You're listening to The Bloomberg Opinion podcast Contest Saturdays at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to The Bloomberg Opinion podcast Contest Saturdays at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Working from home is likely here to stay. University of Texas Management Professor Andrew Brodsky.

You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Working from home is likely here to stay. University of Texas Management Professor Andrew Brodsky.

You're the one company that's not offering remote work. You're going to be losing talent.

You're the one company that's not offering remote work. You're going to be losing talent.

Professor Brodsky says bigger employers are offering work from home as a perk.

Professor Brodsky says bigger employers are offering work from home as a perk.

One of the things that I've been seeing in job listing. You can work from anywhere you want. You don't have to live in, you know, one of the five most expensive cities in the United States.

One of the things that I've been seeing in job listing. You can work from anywhere you want. You don't have to live in, you know, one of the five most expensive cities in the United States.

But there is a myth that speaks to employers' fears about out of sight workers. They might be moonlighting, secretly work working a second job, but not working eighty hour weeks, instead toggling between job one and job two. They're called the over employed. But is this just an urban legend? Bloomberg Opingion columnist Sarah Green Carmichael joins us now. Sarah always a pleasure. Just set us straight. Do these people exist or are there really people who are over employed and using work from home to hide that second job.

But there is a myth that speaks to employers' fears about out of sight workers. They might be moonlighting, secretly work working a second job, but not working eighty hour weeks, instead toggling between job one and job two. They're called the over employed. But is this just an urban legend? Bloomberg Opingion columnist Sarah Green Carmichael joins us now. Sarah always a pleasure. Just set us straight. Do these people exist or are there really people who are over employed and using work from home to hide that second job.

At least a few of.

At least a few of.

These people exists because people, you know, reporters at the Wall Street Journal have talked to some of them, Bloomberg reporters have talked to some of them. There have been stories about this in the BBC, The Washington Post, Vanity Fair. I believe these reporters actually did talk to some people doing this, but these seem to be more anecdotes of people in extraordinary situations rather than the widespread trend it's reported to be. There have been several surveys suggestiness as a widespread phenomenon, but when you look at like Feerau of labor statistics data, it really doesn't show up at all.

These people exists because people, you know, reporters at the Wall Street Journal have talked to some of them, Bloomberg reporters have talked to some of them. There have been stories about this in the BBC, The Washington Post, Vanity Fair. I believe these reporters actually did talk to some people doing this, but these seem to be more anecdotes of people in extraordinary situations rather than the widespread trend it's reported to be. There have been several surveys suggestiness as a widespread phenomenon, but when you look at like Feerau of labor statistics data, it really doesn't show up at all.

This is something that employers are watching engaging, because that kind of gives them more impetus to remove those work from home flexibilities.

This is something that employers are watching engaging, because that kind of gives them more impetus to remove those work from home flexibilities.

Yes.

Yes.

In fact, you know, over the last few months, as you have heard more CEOs trying to push people back to the office more often, some of those all hands zooms that have gone viral have included CEOs saying things like, look, we don't know what people are doing at home, they could be working for a competitor. So I do think it's something where the plethora of stories on this topic has triggered a really real anxiety in the minds of senior leaders. Even if these anecdotes are really just anecdotes.

In fact, you know, over the last few months, as you have heard more CEOs trying to push people back to the office more often, some of those all hands zooms that have gone viral have included CEOs saying things like, look, we don't know what people are doing at home, they could be working for a competitor. So I do think it's something where the plethora of stories on this topic has triggered a really real anxiety in the minds of senior leaders. Even if these anecdotes are really just anecdotes.

And what is another indication that they're just anecdotes. You mentioned if somebody's slacking off or otherwise not contributing, chances are the boss is going to notice.

And what is another indication that they're just anecdotes. You mentioned if somebody's slacking off or otherwise not contributing, chances are the boss is going to notice.

Chances are the boss is going to notice. And there have been some people who have been fired after their companies found out that they were double dipping. It is pretty easy to tell people think they're being sneaky. But you can tell if someone's on two zooms at once and they unmute themselves at the wrong time if you can hear another zoom happening in the background. These kinds of snawfoos are very very difficult. Moreover, you know, most jobs, I think do require people to actually turn in work every now and then. And if someone's work is constantly late or they're constantly canceling meetings, you know you're got it. You really are going to notice. I also have to say, you know, there were a couple of non academic studies that came out that at surveys based on you know, a thousand people that seem to show really high rates of remote workers doing multiple jobs.

Chances are the boss is going to notice. And there have been some people who have been fired after their companies found out that they were double dipping. It is pretty easy to tell people think they're being sneaky. But you can tell if someone's on two zooms at once and they unmute themselves at the wrong time if you can hear another zoom happening in the background. These kinds of snawfoos are very very difficult. Moreover, you know, most jobs, I think do require people to actually turn in work every now and then. And if someone's work is constantly late or they're constantly canceling meetings, you know you're got it. You really are going to notice. I also have to say, you know, there were a couple of non academic studies that came out that at surveys based on you know, a thousand people that seem to show really high rates of remote workers doing multiple jobs.

But a couple of things.

But a couple of things.

One, these are just surveys put out by organizations like resume builder, Monster dot com. They're not, you know, sort of peer reviewed like big studies. And second, you know, when you look closer at some of the details, some of it turns out some of those side hustles are things like driving for Uber, selling jewelry on Etsy.

One, these are just surveys put out by organizations like resume builder, Monster dot com. They're not, you know, sort of peer reviewed like big studies. And second, you know, when you look closer at some of the details, some of it turns out some of those side hustles are things like driving for Uber, selling jewelry on Etsy.

Some people even listed.

Some people even listed.

Sex work as their second job, a surprisingly high number of people. So data points like that made me wonder, really, you know, how how reliable is this survey our remote workers really sitting at home with a full time side job, you know, doing all these sorts of things. I don't find that particularly credible.

Sex work as their second job, a surprisingly high number of people. So data points like that made me wonder, really, you know, how how reliable is this survey our remote workers really sitting at home with a full time side job, you know, doing all these sorts of things. I don't find that particularly credible.

And we talked about it a bit, But how much of an over employed worker is a factor when a company is deciding whether to scale back or eliminate work from home options or is it just sort of buried in there.

And we talked about it a bit, But how much of an over employed worker is a factor when a company is deciding whether to scale back or eliminate work from home options or is it just sort of buried in there.

It's more of a corporate bogey man.

It's more of a corporate bogey man.

These stories have you gotten a ton of attention when they've been you know, published, and it's easy to see why. You know, the details are irresistible. People pulling down six hundred thousand dollars a year by working two or three, you know, coding jobs all simultaneously. So I think there's this this idea that this figure sort of lurks in c's minds as a kind of bogeyman, but there's really no sense of a widespread trend. In fact, you know, less than a percent of the US workforce works to full time jobs.

These stories have you gotten a ton of attention when they've been you know, published, and it's easy to see why. You know, the details are irresistible. People pulling down six hundred thousand dollars a year by working two or three, you know, coding jobs all simultaneously. So I think there's this this idea that this figure sort of lurks in c's minds as a kind of bogeyman, but there's really no sense of a widespread trend. In fact, you know, less than a percent of the US workforce works to full time jobs.

And we are talking with Bloomberg opinion columnist Sarah Green Carmichael here to bust some myths about working from home. How much do side hustles factor into this? You mentioned selling stuff on Etsy or maybe driving an uber. Is that really the predominance or is there more to it?

And we are talking with Bloomberg opinion columnist Sarah Green Carmichael here to bust some myths about working from home. How much do side hustles factor into this? You mentioned selling stuff on Etsy or maybe driving an uber. Is that really the predominance or is there more to it?

I do think that, you know, there is solid data from the Bureau Labertatistics that show that more Americans now do have some kind of secondary job. But it's clearly a primary job that's their full time job, and then a secondary job where they're picking up part time shifts or doing that kind of side hustling. And actually, I think if you asked a lot of CEOs, you know, do you mind if your entry level worker picks up a few weekend shifts at Starbucks?

I do think that, you know, there is solid data from the Bureau Labertatistics that show that more Americans now do have some kind of secondary job. But it's clearly a primary job that's their full time job, and then a secondary job where they're picking up part time shifts or doing that kind of side hustling. And actually, I think if you asked a lot of CEOs, you know, do you mind if your entry level worker picks up a few weekend shifts at Starbucks?

They would probably say no. Depending on the circumstance. It is like they probably wouldn't mind at all.

They would probably say no. Depending on the circumstance. It is like they probably wouldn't mind at all.

But I think it's really this idea that somehow people are simultaneously working two full time jobs, like one for Google and one for Meta that keeps people awake at night.

But I think it's really this idea that somehow people are simultaneously working two full time jobs, like one for Google and one for Meta that keeps people awake at night.

So what is the reason behind this attention on the mythical highly paid two timing remote workers. Where is all of this coming from.

So what is the reason behind this attention on the mythical highly paid two timing remote workers. Where is all of this coming from.

There's a few different reasons that it so has captured the imagination. One is, I think a real managerial fear that they don't know what people are doing at home. The other is I think an anxiety among workers that we're somehow missing out on easy money, that really there's enough slack time in your day that maybe you could take two full time jobs and double your salary. And I think it speaks to a lot of people who are frustrated and feel like they haven't gotten a raise that they deserve. The cost of living has gone up, and there must be some easy way to kind of significantly really increase their earnings.

There's a few different reasons that it so has captured the imagination. One is, I think a real managerial fear that they don't know what people are doing at home. The other is I think an anxiety among workers that we're somehow missing out on easy money, that really there's enough slack time in your day that maybe you could take two full time jobs and double your salary. And I think it speaks to a lot of people who are frustrated and feel like they haven't gotten a raise that they deserve. The cost of living has gone up, and there must be some easy way to kind of significantly really increase their earnings.

And then there's that sense that like gosh, is everyone doing this? Am I falling behind? That's a very powerful motivator for journalists to do more of these stories.

And then there's that sense that like gosh, is everyone doing this? Am I falling behind? That's a very powerful motivator for journalists to do more of these stories.

You know.

You know.

That also speaks to, like you said, hourly wages not going up as much as people might want or need, inflation, and then the continuing fallout from the pandemic and the shutdown. I mean that still is resonating because that's where work from home really got some traction.

That also speaks to, like you said, hourly wages not going up as much as people might want or need, inflation, and then the continuing fallout from the pandemic and the shutdown. I mean that still is resonating because that's where work from home really got some traction.

And I think that there is also in some jobs there are quiet times, and there are dead times, and I think that there are some very smart, skilled people who actually could leverage that dead time in their main job to possibly work a second job. I don't want to say it's not possible, it's just not very widespread.

And I think that there is also in some jobs there are quiet times, and there are dead times, and I think that there are some very smart, skilled people who actually could leverage that dead time in their main job to possibly work a second job. I don't want to say it's not possible, it's just not very widespread.

And one of the numbers that you quote in your column this really tickled me, is it indicated that about a third of all full time workers have a second full time gig, not just a side gig, but a second full time job. And I look around my newsroom and with my colleagues, and I think, there's no way any of these people have a second full time job. You'd be exhausted. It just doesn't seem feasible.

And one of the numbers that you quote in your column this really tickled me, is it indicated that about a third of all full time workers have a second full time gig, not just a side gig, but a second full time job. And I look around my newsroom and with my colleagues, and I think, there's no way any of these people have a second full time job. You'd be exhausted. It just doesn't seem feasible.

Yeah, And That's one of the things that I think was challenging when I started really looking at the data, was this disappointment that these sort of surveys, they really commandeer the headline figure, And I thought, who stopped and thought about does this make any sense? Do a third of full time workers, all workers, not just remote workers, really have a second forty hour week job, Like I really don't think so.

Yeah, And That's one of the things that I think was challenging when I started really looking at the data, was this disappointment that these sort of surveys, they really commandeer the headline figure, And I thought, who stopped and thought about does this make any sense? Do a third of full time workers, all workers, not just remote workers, really have a second forty hour week job, Like I really don't think so.

And that's why I had to go back and check sort.

And that's why I had to go back and check sort.

Of the Saint Louis FED and the Bureau Labor Statist six and some of these really more sort of reliable sources to see are we even close to those numbers?

Of the Saint Louis FED and the Bureau Labor Statist six and some of these really more sort of reliable sources to see are we even close to those numbers?

And we're not, and we're not, and we're not.

And we're not, and we're not, and we're not.

Okay.

Okay.

Bloomberg opinion columnist Sarah Green Carmichael busting the myths when it comes to working from home and how many of us are actually get in a second job. Not as many as we think. Thank you Sarah for talking to us. Thank you Amy, and don't forget we are available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. Now coming up. Getting your vaccines and your shots, getting them up to date maybe even more challenging, especially when those shots aren't available. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion.

Bloomberg opinion columnist Sarah Green Carmichael busting the myths when it comes to working from home and how many of us are actually get in a second job. Not as many as we think. Thank you Sarah for talking to us. Thank you Amy, and don't forget we are available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. Now coming up. Getting your vaccines and your shots, getting them up to date maybe even more challenging, especially when those shots aren't available. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Are you up to date on your annual flu shots and vaccines? Maybe you're not, and you might be just as frustrated as some people who have found that the shots simply aren't always available. The CDC authorized the COVID shots for everyone six months and older back in mid September, so you'd think they'd be available within days, but that hasn't been the case. Let's talk about this. Bloomberg Opinion columnist Lisa Jarvis covers biotech, healthcare, and the pharmaceutical industry, and she joins me. Now, Lisa, thank you for taking the time with us. Let's talk about this. We've been told over and over we should avoid a triple demic this fall. We've heard all about the triple demic and it's likely to hit this fall in this winter. But as long as we're vaccinated week and help stave it off. But if the shots aren't there, is that a mixed message? What are we hearing? What kind of message is that sending.

This is Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Are you up to date on your annual flu shots and vaccines? Maybe you're not, and you might be just as frustrated as some people who have found that the shots simply aren't always available. The CDC authorized the COVID shots for everyone six months and older back in mid September, so you'd think they'd be available within days, but that hasn't been the case. Let's talk about this. Bloomberg Opinion columnist Lisa Jarvis covers biotech, healthcare, and the pharmaceutical industry, and she joins me. Now, Lisa, thank you for taking the time with us. Let's talk about this. We've been told over and over we should avoid a triple demic this fall. We've heard all about the triple demic and it's likely to hit this fall in this winter. But as long as we're vaccinated week and help stave it off. But if the shots aren't there, is that a mixed message? What are we hearing? What kind of message is that sending.

It's frustrating.

It's frustrating.

You know, we know that last year very few people, Only seventeen percent of adults rolled up their sleeves to get their COVID shot, and with the flu it was better, but not ideal. We were at less than half. I think forty seven percent of adults got their flu shot last year. And so the idea is get vaccinated, help, you know, rein in the potential for a triple demic. But it's the first season that we have a commercial market for the COVID vaccines, and so that rollout I think everyone expected to be rocky, but maybe not as frustrating as it's been. I think it's a combination of issues supply getting the shots to the pharmacies and also the pharmacies having actual people to give the shots. And then you know there's just this lag and availability of pediatric shots that's really frustrating parents. I mean, they're still not available for the kids under twelve in a lot of places, and you know, any parent that's trying to get their kid to get a vaccine knows. You just want to get the flu in the COVID shots at the same time. You don't want to make more than one trip. Sure, and so parents are frustrated. They're super frustrated. They're being told to call, you know, every few days, refresh the pediatric you know, provider's website to see when they're going to be available, and it's just frustrating.

You know, we know that last year very few people, Only seventeen percent of adults rolled up their sleeves to get their COVID shot, and with the flu it was better, but not ideal. We were at less than half. I think forty seven percent of adults got their flu shot last year. And so the idea is get vaccinated, help, you know, rein in the potential for a triple demic. But it's the first season that we have a commercial market for the COVID vaccines, and so that rollout I think everyone expected to be rocky, but maybe not as frustrating as it's been. I think it's a combination of issues supply getting the shots to the pharmacies and also the pharmacies having actual people to give the shots. And then you know there's just this lag and availability of pediatric shots that's really frustrating parents. I mean, they're still not available for the kids under twelve in a lot of places, and you know, any parent that's trying to get their kid to get a vaccine knows. You just want to get the flu in the COVID shots at the same time. You don't want to make more than one trip. Sure, and so parents are frustrated. They're super frustrated. They're being told to call, you know, every few days, refresh the pediatric you know, provider's website to see when they're going to be available, and it's just frustrating.

Okay, so you touched on a couple of issues there. Let's get into it. What is the problem supply chain issue? The first time that insurers are handling it, not the government to talk us through that. Let's start with the supply chain.

Okay, so you touched on a couple of issues there. Let's get into it. What is the problem supply chain issue? The first time that insurers are handling it, not the government to talk us through that. Let's start with the supply chain.

Yeah, I think it's all of the above.

Yeah, I think it's all of the above.

I mean, it seems like it seems like the supply.

I mean, it seems like it seems like the supply.

Chain is one of the issues.

Chain is one of the issues.

I know.

I know.

On the pediatric side, my impression is that they had been prioritizing the adult shots and so to get those out to pharmacies first. To be fair, adults are the most vulnerable to the worst outcomes for COVID, so fine, but that doesn't mean that kit shouldn't get vaccinated, especially the ones who have never been vaccinated. I think every pediatrician will tell you, you know, if your child has not ever been vaccinated, they should get vaccinated for COVID. And then I think insurance is another layer. This is the first year we have this commercial market, and so not ensure. There's these technical things they have to input the right codes and if they haven't done that at the pharmacy that you go to, the pharmacy is not going to give you the shot. They're going to ask you for the money up front, and it's over one hundred dollars for your COVID shot and most people don't want to pay that out of pocket, right And so even if they arrive and their appointment hasn't been canceled, it's a possibility that they're ensure may not have you been prepared, that might not be in sync yet. So that's another layer of what's happening.

On the pediatric side, my impression is that they had been prioritizing the adult shots and so to get those out to pharmacies first. To be fair, adults are the most vulnerable to the worst outcomes for COVID, so fine, but that doesn't mean that kit shouldn't get vaccinated, especially the ones who have never been vaccinated. I think every pediatrician will tell you, you know, if your child has not ever been vaccinated, they should get vaccinated for COVID. And then I think insurance is another layer. This is the first year we have this commercial market, and so not ensure. There's these technical things they have to input the right codes and if they haven't done that at the pharmacy that you go to, the pharmacy is not going to give you the shot. They're going to ask you for the money up front, and it's over one hundred dollars for your COVID shot and most people don't want to pay that out of pocket, right And so even if they arrive and their appointment hasn't been canceled, it's a possibility that they're ensure may not have you been prepared, that might not be in sync yet. So that's another layer of what's happening.

So are there surprise bills that people are also getting those medical bills? I had no idea it was one hundred dollars plus.

So are there surprise bills that people are also getting those medical bills? I had no idea it was one hundred dollars plus.

Yeah, there are or that they're arriving at a CVS. I think a pharmacy your doctor's office probably will swallow the cost and then bill you later, whereas is CBS and Walgreens, which you know, the pharmacies are the ones that really have gotten the supply first, they won't. They're going to ask you for the money upfront, and so I think people are deciding to just leave and not get their shot, which is a real shame because again we know that we've struggled to get folks interested in getting vaccinated, whether that's for COVID or the flu.

Yeah, there are or that they're arriving at a CVS. I think a pharmacy your doctor's office probably will swallow the cost and then bill you later, whereas is CBS and Walgreens, which you know, the pharmacies are the ones that really have gotten the supply first, they won't. They're going to ask you for the money upfront, and so I think people are deciding to just leave and not get their shot, which is a real shame because again we know that we've struggled to get folks interested in getting vaccinated, whether that's for COVID or the flu.

So it does seem like a mixed message. Then if you're trying to push to have the constituency you get those shots, and then you don't make the shots readily available, it seems like you're defeating yourself.

So it does seem like a mixed message. Then if you're trying to push to have the constituency you get those shots, and then you don't make the shots readily available, it seems like you're defeating yourself.

Yeah, I mean, you know, to be fair, we all got used to this situation where our shots were free. We could go anywhere and get a free shot, no matter what kind of insurance or no insurance we had. I mean, it does give us a little insight into a system where you know, public health is made a priority and works out for everyone. And so it's frustrating to watch this rollout. You know, one thing that I think some of that will get ironed out, and hopefully part pieces of that will be better next year. But the piece that I'm worried about not being better is that the arrival of the COVID shots came well into what we know is what feels like now annual summer wave of COVID and so people were eager to get their shots because they knew so many people getting sick, and yet they were not yet available.

Yeah, I mean, you know, to be fair, we all got used to this situation where our shots were free. We could go anywhere and get a free shot, no matter what kind of insurance or no insurance we had. I mean, it does give us a little insight into a system where you know, public health is made a priority and works out for everyone. And so it's frustrating to watch this rollout. You know, one thing that I think some of that will get ironed out, and hopefully part pieces of that will be better next year. But the piece that I'm worried about not being better is that the arrival of the COVID shots came well into what we know is what feels like now annual summer wave of COVID and so people were eager to get their shots because they knew so many people getting sick, and yet they were not yet available.

And we are talking with Bloomberg opinion columnist Lisa Jarvis about the season's vaccine rollout. How could this be handled better?

And we are talking with Bloomberg opinion columnist Lisa Jarvis about the season's vaccine rollout. How could this be handled better?

That's a good question.

That's a good question.

I mean, I think next year, like I said, I think the insurance piece should be ironed out because that will be routine by then that I hope the distribution is better.

I mean, I think next year, like I said, I think the insurance piece should be ironed out because that will be routine by then that I hope the distribution is better.

One thing that.

One thing that.

Changed as well this year is that they switched you know, you may recall that when these COVID shots originally were available, there were a lot of doses in each vial, and they've lowered the number of doses so that you're not wasting them because it ensures, you know, the pharmacies are on the hook for that now. And I think that that transition might be part of it, so that will be more routine. But one thing, I'm just concerned that we seem to be struggling to sink the arrival of the shots with the arrival of the COVID wave and when people wanting to get them with the arrival also of flu shots, because a lot of people would like to get both at once, and so that piece of it, I'm little concerned we won't have perfected by next year.

Changed as well this year is that they switched you know, you may recall that when these COVID shots originally were available, there were a lot of doses in each vial, and they've lowered the number of doses so that you're not wasting them because it ensures, you know, the pharmacies are on the hook for that now. And I think that that transition might be part of it, so that will be more routine. But one thing, I'm just concerned that we seem to be struggling to sink the arrival of the shots with the arrival of the COVID wave and when people wanting to get them with the arrival also of flu shots, because a lot of people would like to get both at once, and so that piece of it, I'm little concerned we won't have perfected by next year.

Now, Lisa, you touched on this earlier, but I wanted to ask. They really seem to be able to roll out these vaccines fairly easily during the height of the pandemic. I remember going to one of those those mass vaccination sites and it was like clockwork. They had it down to a science, so to speak. Why is it so much harder now?

Now, Lisa, you touched on this earlier, but I wanted to ask. They really seem to be able to roll out these vaccines fairly easily during the height of the pandemic. I remember going to one of those those mass vaccination sites and it was like clockwork. They had it down to a science, so to speak. Why is it so much harder now?

Well, I think this, you know, combination of it being on the commercial in the commercial market, people having different insurances, and now instead of going straight from the government to the distribution site, it's going to a middle person, you know, a distributor, and there's a system for getting your shots that's different than in the past, for the for the pharmacies, and so it just a confluence of things happening. But you know, to be fair, we have now seen what it could be like right when everything is well oiled and we prioritize public health, So it'd be nice to inject a little of that into our system next year.

Well, I think this, you know, combination of it being on the commercial in the commercial market, people having different insurances, and now instead of going straight from the government to the distribution site, it's going to a middle person, you know, a distributor, and there's a system for getting your shots that's different than in the past, for the for the pharmacies, and so it just a confluence of things happening. But you know, to be fair, we have now seen what it could be like right when everything is well oiled and we prioritize public health, So it'd be nice to inject a little of that into our system next year.

And it does seem like we're getting a little bit more used to it, just the assumption that it'll be one of the vaccines that we get seasonally, I hope.

And it does seem like we're getting a little bit more used to it, just the assumption that it'll be one of the vaccines that we get seasonally, I hope.

So it feels like more people are interested this year. You know, I don't think it's going to be flu level, and I hope flu levels we see go up because because that's really important, especially for younger kids and for older people.

So it feels like more people are interested this year. You know, I don't think it's going to be flu level, and I hope flu levels we see go up because because that's really important, especially for younger kids and for older people.

But you know, we need to boost.

But you know, we need to boost.

That interest a bit because if you haven't been vaccinated and you haven't been infected, you're still at risk.

That interest a bit because if you haven't been vaccinated and you haven't been infected, you're still at risk.

Are we seeing more people buying in?

Are we seeing more people buying in?

It seems like there's a little bit more demand, you know, Will it be as you know, optimistic as the demand that Maderna and Pfizer hope there will be hard to say, but you know, they now can market their shots in a different way than they were allowed to in the past when the government was the one that was distributing them. And so you know, I think trying to increase interest in the shots and is helping. So it doesn't but you know, again it running counter to that is people's appointments being canceled or the surprise bills you know, so, you know, I hope that we get that right, because for some people, they may very few people got the booster, which means that there's some people who might not have a ton of protection at this point if they haven't also gotten COVID in the last year.

It seems like there's a little bit more demand, you know, Will it be as you know, optimistic as the demand that Maderna and Pfizer hope there will be hard to say, but you know, they now can market their shots in a different way than they were allowed to in the past when the government was the one that was distributing them. And so you know, I think trying to increase interest in the shots and is helping. So it doesn't but you know, again it running counter to that is people's appointments being canceled or the surprise bills you know, so, you know, I hope that we get that right, because for some people, they may very few people got the booster, which means that there's some people who might not have a ton of protection at this point if they haven't also gotten COVID in the last year.

So who is more likely to have a hard time finding these shots at this point?

So who is more likely to have a hard time finding these shots at this point?

Really?

Really?

Children are the parents looking for shots? For children? A lot of daycare is still don't let you bring your kid back for ten days if they get COVID, And so you know, some parents are eager to, you know, get some layer of protection to help minimize this bread.

Children are the parents looking for shots? For children? A lot of daycare is still don't let you bring your kid back for ten days if they get COVID, And so you know, some parents are eager to, you know, get some layer of protection to help minimize this bread.

Just because you cover the biopharmaceutical industry, Are we close to getting a vaccine that would combine both COVID and the flu kind of clear that up, just one big shot and be done with it.

Just because you cover the biopharmaceutical industry, Are we close to getting a vaccine that would combine both COVID and the flu kind of clear that up, just one big shot and be done with it.

Yes, I hope, So I think that by t twenty twenty five that could be a possibility. Maderna certainly hope. So they've got a shot in the works that combines both sodisfeizer. The question will be how FDA the kind of information that FDA wants out of them, and whether what they're providing will be enough for FDA to approve it by then, but I certainly would be eager, and it seems like it would simplify everything to have both things at once.

Yes, I hope, So I think that by t twenty twenty five that could be a possibility. Maderna certainly hope. So they've got a shot in the works that combines both sodisfeizer. The question will be how FDA the kind of information that FDA wants out of them, and whether what they're providing will be enough for FDA to approve it by then, but I certainly would be eager, and it seems like it would simplify everything to have both things at once.

Lisa Jarvis is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist who covers biotech, healthcare, and the pharmaceutical industry. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Time was when you wanted to be famous, you might go into acting or performing. You want to be a movie star or rock star or supermodel. But there is a celebrity status of sort for scientists, and that might not end well for anyone. Let's talk with Bloomberg Opinion columnists Fey Flamou covers science and hosts the follow the Science podcast. Faye, what is the risk? What is wrong with fame being a measure of success for researchers and scientists.

Lisa Jarvis is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist who covers biotech, healthcare, and the pharmaceutical industry. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Time was when you wanted to be famous, you might go into acting or performing. You want to be a movie star or rock star or supermodel. But there is a celebrity status of sort for scientists, and that might not end well for anyone. Let's talk with Bloomberg Opinion columnists Fey Flamou covers science and hosts the follow the Science podcast. Faye, what is the risk? What is wrong with fame being a measure of success for researchers and scientists.

Well, one of the problems is that sometimes it can tempt people to cheat, and as a recent cases illustrated this, this sort of cheating happens occasionally, and often when people cheat, they end up getting published in very high profile journals and they get a lot of positive press coverage. And that's what happened with the case that I was looking into with the physicist at Rochester University.

Well, one of the problems is that sometimes it can tempt people to cheat, and as a recent cases illustrated this, this sort of cheating happens occasionally, and often when people cheat, they end up getting published in very high profile journals and they get a lot of positive press coverage. And that's what happened with the case that I was looking into with the physicist at Rochester University.

Well, when you say cheat, you mean like data manipulation.

Well, when you say cheat, you mean like data manipulation.

Yes, there are lots of different ways that scientists can cheat. One of the most egregious, and you know ones that the one that is really considered outright fraud is to have a paper that with a graph that says this data came from you know, a certain type of experiment, but either get the data from somewhere else, or make up the data or change the data to make it look like you've observed something that you haven't, or that your result is more dramatic than it actually is.

Yes, there are lots of different ways that scientists can cheat. One of the most egregious, and you know ones that the one that is really considered outright fraud is to have a paper that with a graph that says this data came from you know, a certain type of experiment, but either get the data from somewhere else, or make up the data or change the data to make it look like you've observed something that you haven't, or that your result is more dramatic than it actually is.

And when you talked with one blogger as you did research for this column, that blogger explained how humility is punished if you're trying to get published. To talk to us about that.

And when you talked with one blogger as you did research for this column, that blogger explained how humility is punished if you're trying to get published. To talk to us about that.

So i'van uransky is actually he started something called Retraction Watch he in another science journalist, which is really kind of an essential resource for science journalists because they look at all of the problems and the bugs and the things that go wrong in science, and they look at papers that get accepted into journals and then are retracted. And usually they're not retracted unless there's evidence of some form of cheating. Or there's something an error that actually invalidates the entire result, and seed usually we get one big scandal a year every couple of years. In this case, there was sort of an escalation of issues because he was claiming to have found a phenomenon room temperature super conductivity, which is something that is sort of a holy grail. It's been people have been looking for it for a long time. Lots of different people have tried to find a material that will it conducts electricity without any resistance, and they normally have to chill these substances to very low temperatures that are actually used in the MRI imaging and some other applications. But it's expensive because you have to chill them. And so if you could get one to work at room temperature, that would be amazing. And it may be that he's founded, but there's been so many people have looked at his results and seen evidence that he's manipulated data, plagiarized sections of his papers that it's casting doubt on it. And at the same time, when there are certain journals Nature and Science that send out very dramatic press releases to journalists, and then the journalists want to get attention, so they'll dress it up even more so. Then you suddenly have the New York Times saying that this discover is going to transform civilization.

So i'van uransky is actually he started something called Retraction Watch he in another science journalist, which is really kind of an essential resource for science journalists because they look at all of the problems and the bugs and the things that go wrong in science, and they look at papers that get accepted into journals and then are retracted. And usually they're not retracted unless there's evidence of some form of cheating. Or there's something an error that actually invalidates the entire result, and seed usually we get one big scandal a year every couple of years. In this case, there was sort of an escalation of issues because he was claiming to have found a phenomenon room temperature super conductivity, which is something that is sort of a holy grail. It's been people have been looking for it for a long time. Lots of different people have tried to find a material that will it conducts electricity without any resistance, and they normally have to chill these substances to very low temperatures that are actually used in the MRI imaging and some other applications. But it's expensive because you have to chill them. And so if you could get one to work at room temperature, that would be amazing. And it may be that he's founded, but there's been so many people have looked at his results and seen evidence that he's manipulated data, plagiarized sections of his papers that it's casting doubt on it. And at the same time, when there are certain journals Nature and Science that send out very dramatic press releases to journalists, and then the journalists want to get attention, so they'll dress it up even more so. Then you suddenly have the New York Times saying that this discover is going to transform civilization.

Well, aren't these things peer review anyway? I mean, how are you getting published if you've manipulated data?

Well, aren't these things peer review anyway? I mean, how are you getting published if you've manipulated data?

That is a good question. There's only so much peer review can do, and often there are problems in the peer review. In fact, the people I talked to who had looked into this paper couldn't figure out who had reviewed it, and they say that the reviews actually should be public so that other people can look them over and see what the reviewers might have missed or what they might have flagged, and the journal may have gone ahead anyway. There are times when people have said that they were reviewers and they suggested the paper not be published, and the journal goes ahead and publishes it. So the process is better than not having peer review, but it's still far from full proof.

That is a good question. There's only so much peer review can do, and often there are problems in the peer review. In fact, the people I talked to who had looked into this paper couldn't figure out who had reviewed it, and they say that the reviews actually should be public so that other people can look them over and see what the reviewers might have missed or what they might have flagged, and the journal may have gone ahead anyway. There are times when people have said that they were reviewers and they suggested the paper not be published, and the journal goes ahead and publishes it. So the process is better than not having peer review, but it's still far from full proof.

Bloomberg Opinion columnist bayflam host of followed the Science Podcast, and that does it for this week's Bloomberg Opinion. We are produced by Eric Molow, and you can find all of these columns on the Bloomberg terminal. We're available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are just ahead. I Mami Morris, this is Bloomberg.

Bloomberg Opinion columnist bayflam host of followed the Science Podcast, and that does it for this week's Bloomberg Opinion. We are produced by Eric Molow, and you can find all of these columns on the Bloomberg terminal. We're available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are just ahead. I Mami Morris, this is Bloomberg.