This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily, Bloomberg I heard podcast and I'm Mike Reagan in today for Stacy Marie Ishmaal. It's Thursday January. In the days leading up to the staggering collapse of f t X, a word tweets broke out between two top crypto executives. Former ft X CEO Sam Backman Freed and Binance CEO Chang Peng Jao or CZ, as he's commonly called, are known rivals and just one example of their different styles. Backmen Freed appeared eager to work with the government, regulators and lawmakers, while c Z not so much. But when CZ tweeted that he was selling Binance his holdings of crypto tokens that were created by f t X, it sparked a run on the exchange that ultimately led to the insolvency of f t X. The idea that a once flushed crypto exchange where billions of dollars could be taken down by a series of tweets, well, it raises a lot of questions about the crypto market, and it fuels the perception that the digital acid industry is led by alpha males caught up in a hyper masculine culture. But now that one of the most renowned CEOs finds himself facing a slew of criminal charges and civil actions, what's at stake for the industry and what does it say about the leaders who run it or the future of the crypto community at large. My colleague Vildanna Hirich joins me, Now, they're not afraid to get into fights, they're not afraid to be on Twitter and say really outrageous things, And basically that's what we've seen happen in crypto over the last ten years or so. Voltana, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, of course, so FILTONA. One thing I find fascinating is, you know, if you cover regular companies, non crypto companies, you know there's business wire, pr newswire, they have sort of official avenues to make an announcement. Not so much in crypto. It's it's basically all on Twitter. We have Twitter, Twitter, which which has its pluses and its minuses, but talked to mostly but talk a little bit about that idea of how important Twitter is to the crypto industry and how information is disseminated. It's hugely important. I always say that a lot of crypto discourse happens on Twitter. So you have a lot of these big personalities that I'm sure we're going to be talking about who have huge followings on Twitter. They're they're all day with their laser eyes, although a lot of them have actually removed their laser eyes as of as of late, and they're just basically posting anything that comes to mind. A lot of them have been known to just be tweeting all day every day. I actually find a lot of ideas and great market stuff on Twitter because you can find just about anything. You can find these feuds that we're about to talk about, but also a lot of like coverage about what's happening with the market and what people are seeing because, as you say, there's no central place where we can get this type of information. That's what I think is so fascinating. You know, a crypto project that has an announcement to make oh we've got a new coin, or we're shutting down for maintenance, or hey sorry but we just blew up. All your money's gone. You know, Twitter is the official sort of platform for them to release that news. But mixed in with all that is all this sort of other personal sort of bravado. You know, let's talk a little bit about the way crypto power players sort of communicate with each other on Twitter. It's all very nice and ploy and cordial. Right, Oh, it's so nice. It's like it's all rainbows and fairies and and nice words. No that there's actually a lot of um. I guess we can call it fighting or in fighting between some of these CEOs and people who are at the helms of these different crypto companies, and like I said, they love to have huge followings. A lot of them do have huge followings, and they sort of just build these basis of supporters and followers on on Twitter who like to come in the fence of some of them. But I think a really good example of what you're talking about is the feud that we saw between Sam Bank and Freed from f t X, the former CEO of f t X, and what happened with Finances c Z, where for years people sort of watched them feud with each other via Twitter and sort of just throw barbs at each other. Where you can even just you know, tweet about someone without having to tag them, and your followers will know who exactly you're talking about. But they've had a spat going on on Twitter, sub tweeting as they say, exactly, there's a major crypto ceo who I think is a fraud. I'm not to say who, but but but you know who is? You know you may know who you rehash are the listeners How that feud sort of reached its climax and what it meant for f t X, well, it meant the downfall of ft X really not to not to give the sort of the ending of the story, but both are huge names within crypto. They were even before any of this happened. C Z is at the helm of the largest crypto exchange in the world. F t X was the largest one of the largest in the US, and so to have the two of them sparring was always going to be drawing headlines. But basically what happened was that Finance held a huge chunk I think something like two or three billion dollars worth of the FTX token f t T and what sparked all of this was c Z tweeting out that he was going to be offloading that investment that they were holding, and there was a lot of back and forth from f t X where f t X had offered to buy it for I forget what the yeah exactly. At one point at ft T the token had been trading above eighty dollars I think in September of last year, and for for market watchers actually for people who were seeing that on Twitter, they did not take that as a good sign that f t X was willing to do that. And from there we sort of saw this rather quick unraveling of what happened with f t X, because then we had to have Finance say that they were going to help take ft X over a deal that actually ended up falling through, which is something that the market foresaw because we saw cryptocurrency selling off when all of this was happening. So a lot of market participants and people who were watching what was going on between the two parties was that they just didn't have a lot of faith this was actually going to play out in a good way. That token ft T played such a crucial role as collateral exactly, the hedgephone that's sort of strapped to f t X on me to research exactly and c Z kind of you would assume nobody was doing perhaps by undermining faith in that token, that it wasn't. A later tweety said that it's better for a crypto project to fail early. You know, he kind of was hinting that he knew what was going to happen. Yeah, this is the interesting thing because and we can think about this in a bunch of different ways in terms of, you know, coin Desk was the original news source of what sort of helped spark some of this, and what helped spark c Z saying that he was going to be off floading those FTT tokens that obviously has had huge repercussions for the industry that Coin Desk covers. And then the same thing happening with finance, where you're just seeing these huge repercussions that aren't exactly great for finance either because we just have this huge loss of faith in the system, reputational damages, people fleeing the market without any hopes that they're going to be coming back, especially from some of the retail investors. And so I think the repercussions just I don't think it played out exactly as hidden. Yeah, I thought they might, and we've learned so much since then. Obviously, the fraud charges all, you know, the sec the CFTC complaints against Sam Bagman. Freed suggests that this company was a big mess. Basically, this may or may not have happened eventually, but it tweets that sure did accelerate things, which sure did. But I'm curious, you know, as a man, maybe I'm not the best person to analyze sort of the crypto culture because it does seem to me that it's this sort of bro culture, for lack of a better word, this kind of hyper masculine, alpha male culture. I'm curiously, you know, as a woman covering the space, interacting with with a lot of these guys, how do you perceive that culture? Yeah, well it's hard for me to say. Actually, maybe you are the better voice in terms of being able to say what exactly is going on. But you and I actually worked on a story about this together, and one of the people we spoke with called it blood sport. Basically, this is like a blood sport. What he said was, it's it's about not just winning, but vanquishing and winning at the expense of my opponents, which is basically what we saw happening, where people were trying to outdo each other in the process. End it up also hurting themselves. Yeah, that was a great quote from Peter Atwater at William and Mary. A smart guy. He studies confidence and the role of confidence in finance, and maybe a little too much confidence from these guys. And I wonder about that idea of blood sport. You know, finances are it's not like it's ever had a kind and gentle reputation, right, you know, Wall Street bankers are not known for getting together and singing compared to what's going on in Yeah, do you said, do you sense a big difference? It's much more aggressive in in crypto for sure. The whole idea of crypto is that it's anti establishment, that it's this new thing, a new innovation, new technology is a new way to to pay and live and new everything. Basically like a financial revolution, is what a lot of crypto people will tell you. And the type of people to help lead through that are young, brash, they're not afraid to get into fights, they're not afraid to be on Twitter and say really outrageous things. And basically that's what we've seen happen in crypto over the last ten years or so. If you compared traditional financial markets, they're not huge companies but they're making names for themselves sometimes thanks in part to what the founders are doing and saying on Twitter and in the public. Yeah. I keep thinking of the Hedge fund that really went after do Quan and the Terraform blockchain project earlier in the year. Um, they sort of on Twitter liking themselves to the Romans sacking Carthage in the Punic Wars. So that blood sport idea really, you know, it conjures up this image of sort of gladiators, gladiators and and and there really is kind of that sort of mentality at playing a lot of these people involved. Yeah, I think so. You and I had a quote also from Peter Adwater and he said, it's the modern day gladiators, these CEOs, They're perceiving themselves as disruptive warriors, is what Peter told us. Coming up more of my discussion with fill Donna on what the biggest crypto rivalries mean for the industry, we'll be right back. I thought, I also wanted to talk a little bit about sort of this image that Sam bankman Fried had cultivated. Not your average sort of Wall Street buttoned up suit and tie fleece, best type of guy. Was he it's funny that we think of that as as buttoned up and we're comparing. So he was known for sort of having disheveled hair, for wearing sort of loose, baggy T shirts, flip flops shorts. When we would see him actually go in front of Congress, a lot of people made a big deal about him wearing a suit or just wearing a button down. But then they would zoom in on his shoes and the shoelaces would be all like totally messed up, like he doesn't on a daily basis tie his shoes and had maybe forgotten how to do it. But yeah, that's that's the image he had, and now we know that that's the image he was trying to cultivate. That's an interesting point is that it very much fits in with sort of that the counter culture outsider image of crypto. Right, you know you do you don't want to look like a banker, right? Absolutely. I remember this one story when things first started falling apart for f t X, I think one of the stories said something like he wanted to look like he was in his bean bag chair because he was very well known for like not having a regular sleeping schedule. And just sleeping whenever he could on his bean bag chair, like in the office next to his computers where he was working or playing video games. Where when he had investors coming in or anybody of importance coming into, you know, check out the FTX offices or check out what they were doing. That he wanted it to look like he was rolling out of the sleeping bag chair, like that he had been working so hard and out of nowhere. You sort of like walk in and you catch him still like taking a mini nap or something, and that that is exactly what he wanted to be perceived as, where he told his employees, it's actually good for me to look like my hair is so dishovel. Well, I kind of follow that strategy to myself, But if I slept in a bean bag chair, I don't. I would need a chiropractice. But your hair looks exactly like his. Yeah, at least you brushed it. You brushed yours today. I'm curious how you're thinking about sort of the legacy of all of this, the culture of Twitter, It's future, the sort of widespread suspicion and anxiety that exists now because of what happen and with that t X. It seems to me that things have changed forever in this industry, that everyone's going to be second guessing sort of this notion of oh, here's this quirky outsider sleeping in a being back chair. You think that's fair to say? And you and I had a great story about this as well. If I got a good stories, if I can pat us on the back. What we started to see pretty much over the summer, I would say, or late summer, was a huge wave of people leaving CEO roles at crypto companies, so founders and and people who had sort of built names for themselves within this space leaving, you know, their CEO roles at those companies and up types taking their place so that buttoned up types could could take over. I think we we had some really great quotes from that story as well. One of them said, some founders could be moving on because the industry is getting more professional, and they come from an era where it was more tin hat, where the crypto people were more tin hat basically, and you have more traditional finance types moving in to help clean up the mess. So I wonder, you know, is crypto justis going to be sort of joined at the hip to this kind of masculine, alpha male, tough guy, sort of leader of the pack image or or do you think this will change things? Is there more room for sort of a more reasonable, mild manner type of leader in crypto? Now it's possible. I mean, I don't know, we'll see what actually happens in terms of all of what we're seeing in the wake of f t x is collapse. A lot of people are saying that we're definitely going to be seeing more regulation. So if that's the case, it's possible that you have sort of more serious types coming in. The new CEO of f t X, who I think led Enron through its troubles in the early two thousand's John Jay Ray. He is building this image of himself of being a super studious and serious person and coming out and talking about some of the things that he had unearthed over the last couple of weeks in terms of what had been happening at f t X. So it's possible that we do start to see more people like that coming in and, like I said, sort of clean up the mess. Yeah, you think he sleeps in a beanbag chair? Definitely not, No, definitely not. Well, thank you, Vill Donna. I think Mike you forgot the most important thing about this conversation. What's up? You and I host our own podcast? I forgot about forgot about that. I forgot about the highlight of my week every week. Yes, can I plug it, plug it and plug away as guest hosts? Thank you so much. Soul Stacy Marie finds out all out. Yeah, no, I think she would be happy with this too. I think she's a fan of ours as well. What goes up? What goes up? Wherever you get your podcasts? Yeah, exactly. And also you can find more of Bill Donna's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal and on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to check out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto, dear podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farup and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrn. I'm Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be back tomorrow.

This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily, Bloomberg I heard podcast and I'm Mike Reagan in today for Stacy Marie Ishmaal. It's Thursday January. In the days leading up to the staggering collapse of f t X, a word tweets broke out between two top crypto executives. Former ft X CEO Sam Backman Freed and Binance CEO Chang Peng Jao or CZ, as he's commonly called, are known rivals and just one example of their different styles. Backmen Freed appeared eager to work with the government, regulators and lawmakers, while c Z not so much. But when CZ tweeted that he was selling Binance his holdings of crypto tokens that were created by f t X, it sparked a run on the exchange that ultimately led to the insolvency of f t X. The idea that a once flushed crypto exchange where billions of dollars could be taken down by a series of tweets, well, it raises a lot of questions about the crypto market, and it fuels the perception that the digital acid industry is led by alpha males caught up in a hyper masculine culture. But now that one of the most renowned CEOs finds himself facing a slew of criminal charges and civil actions, what's at stake for the industry and what does it say about the leaders who run it or the future of the crypto community at large. My colleague Vildanna Hirich joins me, Now, they're not afraid to get into fights, they're not afraid to be on Twitter and say really outrageous things, And basically that's what we've seen happen in crypto over the last ten years or so. Voltana, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, of course, so FILTONA. One thing I find fascinating is, you know, if you cover regular companies, non crypto companies, you know there's business wire, pr newswire, they have sort of official avenues to make an announcement. Not so much in crypto. It's it's basically all on Twitter. We have Twitter, Twitter, which which has its pluses and its minuses, but talked to mostly but talk a little bit about that idea of how important Twitter is to the crypto industry and how information is disseminated. It's hugely important. I always say that a lot of crypto discourse happens on Twitter. So you have a lot of these big personalities that I'm sure we're going to be talking about who have huge followings on Twitter. They're they're all day with their laser eyes, although a lot of them have actually removed their laser eyes as of as of late, and they're just basically posting anything that comes to mind. A lot of them have been known to just be tweeting all day every day. I actually find a lot of ideas and great market stuff on Twitter because you can find just about anything. You can find these feuds that we're about to talk about, but also a lot of like coverage about what's happening with the market and what people are seeing because, as you say, there's no central place where we can get this type of information. That's what I think is so fascinating. You know, a crypto project that has an announcement to make oh we've got a new coin, or we're shutting down for maintenance, or hey sorry but we just blew up. All your money's gone. You know, Twitter is the official sort of platform for them to release that news. But mixed in with all that is all this sort of other personal sort of bravado. You know, let's talk a little bit about the way crypto power players sort of communicate with each other on Twitter. It's all very nice and ploy and cordial. Right, Oh, it's so nice. It's like it's all rainbows and fairies and and nice words. No that there's actually a lot of um. I guess we can call it fighting or in fighting between some of these CEOs and people who are at the helms of these different crypto companies, and like I said, they love to have huge followings. A lot of them do have huge followings, and they sort of just build these basis of supporters and followers on on Twitter who like to come in the fence of some of them. But I think a really good example of what you're talking about is the feud that we saw between Sam Bank and Freed from f t X, the former CEO of f t X, and what happened with Finances c Z, where for years people sort of watched them feud with each other via Twitter and sort of just throw barbs at each other. Where you can even just you know, tweet about someone without having to tag them, and your followers will know who exactly you're talking about. But they've had a spat going on on Twitter, sub tweeting as they say, exactly, there's a major crypto ceo who I think is a fraud. I'm not to say who, but but but you know who is? You know you may know who you rehash are the listeners How that feud sort of reached its climax and what it meant for f t X, well, it meant the downfall of ft X really not to not to give the sort of the ending of the story, but both are huge names within crypto. They were even before any of this happened. C Z is at the helm of the largest crypto exchange in the world. F t X was the largest one of the largest in the US, and so to have the two of them sparring was always going to be drawing headlines. But basically what happened was that Finance held a huge chunk I think something like two or three billion dollars worth of the FTX token f t T and what sparked all of this was c Z tweeting out that he was going to be offloading that investment that they were holding, and there was a lot of back and forth from f t X where f t X had offered to buy it for I forget what the yeah exactly. At one point at ft T the token had been trading above eighty dollars I think in September of last year, and for for market watchers actually for people who were seeing that on Twitter, they did not take that as a good sign that f t X was willing to do that. And from there we sort of saw this rather quick unraveling of what happened with f t X, because then we had to have Finance say that they were going to help take ft X over a deal that actually ended up falling through, which is something that the market foresaw because we saw cryptocurrency selling off when all of this was happening. So a lot of market participants and people who were watching what was going on between the two parties was that they just didn't have a lot of faith this was actually going to play out in a good way. That token ft T played such a crucial role as collateral exactly, the hedgephone that's sort of strapped to f t X on me to research exactly and c Z kind of you would assume nobody was doing perhaps by undermining faith in that token, that it wasn't. A later tweety said that it's better for a crypto project to fail early. You know, he kind of was hinting that he knew what was going to happen. Yeah, this is the interesting thing because and we can think about this in a bunch of different ways in terms of, you know, coin Desk was the original news source of what sort of helped spark some of this, and what helped spark c Z saying that he was going to be off floading those FTT tokens that obviously has had huge repercussions for the industry that Coin Desk covers. And then the same thing happening with finance, where you're just seeing these huge repercussions that aren't exactly great for finance either because we just have this huge loss of faith in the system, reputational damages, people fleeing the market without any hopes that they're going to be coming back, especially from some of the retail investors. And so I think the repercussions just I don't think it played out exactly as hidden. Yeah, I thought they might, and we've learned so much since then. Obviously, the fraud charges all, you know, the sec the CFTC complaints against Sam Bagman. Freed suggests that this company was a big mess. Basically, this may or may not have happened eventually, but it tweets that sure did accelerate things, which sure did. But I'm curious, you know, as a man, maybe I'm not the best person to analyze sort of the crypto culture because it does seem to me that it's this sort of bro culture, for lack of a better word, this kind of hyper masculine, alpha male culture. I'm curiously, you know, as a woman covering the space, interacting with with a lot of these guys, how do you perceive that culture? Yeah, well it's hard for me to say. Actually, maybe you are the better voice in terms of being able to say what exactly is going on. But you and I actually worked on a story about this together, and one of the people we spoke with called it blood sport. Basically, this is like a blood sport. What he said was, it's it's about not just winning, but vanquishing and winning at the expense of my opponents, which is basically what we saw happening, where people were trying to outdo each other in the process. End it up also hurting themselves. Yeah, that was a great quote from Peter Atwater at William and Mary. A smart guy. He studies confidence and the role of confidence in finance, and maybe a little too much confidence from these guys. And I wonder about that idea of blood sport. You know, finances are it's not like it's ever had a kind and gentle reputation, right, you know, Wall Street bankers are not known for getting together and singing compared to what's going on in Yeah, do you said, do you sense a big difference? It's much more aggressive in in crypto for sure. The whole idea of crypto is that it's anti establishment, that it's this new thing, a new innovation, new technology is a new way to to pay and live and new everything. Basically like a financial revolution, is what a lot of crypto people will tell you. And the type of people to help lead through that are young, brash, they're not afraid to get into fights, they're not afraid to be on Twitter and say really outrageous things. And basically that's what we've seen happen in crypto over the last ten years or so. If you compared traditional financial markets, they're not huge companies but they're making names for themselves sometimes thanks in part to what the founders are doing and saying on Twitter and in the public. Yeah. I keep thinking of the Hedge fund that really went after do Quan and the Terraform blockchain project earlier in the year. Um, they sort of on Twitter liking themselves to the Romans sacking Carthage in the Punic Wars. So that blood sport idea really, you know, it conjures up this image of sort of gladiators, gladiators and and and there really is kind of that sort of mentality at playing a lot of these people involved. Yeah, I think so. You and I had a quote also from Peter Adwater and he said, it's the modern day gladiators, these CEOs, They're perceiving themselves as disruptive warriors, is what Peter told us. Coming up more of my discussion with fill Donna on what the biggest crypto rivalries mean for the industry, we'll be right back. I thought, I also wanted to talk a little bit about sort of this image that Sam bankman Fried had cultivated. Not your average sort of Wall Street buttoned up suit and tie fleece, best type of guy. Was he it's funny that we think of that as as buttoned up and we're comparing. So he was known for sort of having disheveled hair, for wearing sort of loose, baggy T shirts, flip flops shorts. When we would see him actually go in front of Congress, a lot of people made a big deal about him wearing a suit or just wearing a button down. But then they would zoom in on his shoes and the shoelaces would be all like totally messed up, like he doesn't on a daily basis tie his shoes and had maybe forgotten how to do it. But yeah, that's that's the image he had, and now we know that that's the image he was trying to cultivate. That's an interesting point is that it very much fits in with sort of that the counter culture outsider image of crypto. Right, you know you do you don't want to look like a banker, right? Absolutely. I remember this one story when things first started falling apart for f t X, I think one of the stories said something like he wanted to look like he was in his bean bag chair because he was very well known for like not having a regular sleeping schedule. And just sleeping whenever he could on his bean bag chair, like in the office next to his computers where he was working or playing video games. Where when he had investors coming in or anybody of importance coming into, you know, check out the FTX offices or check out what they were doing. That he wanted it to look like he was rolling out of the sleeping bag chair, like that he had been working so hard and out of nowhere. You sort of like walk in and you catch him still like taking a mini nap or something, and that that is exactly what he wanted to be perceived as, where he told his employees, it's actually good for me to look like my hair is so dishovel. Well, I kind of follow that strategy to myself, But if I slept in a bean bag chair, I don't. I would need a chiropractice. But your hair looks exactly like his. Yeah, at least you brushed it. You brushed yours today. I'm curious how you're thinking about sort of the legacy of all of this, the culture of Twitter, It's future, the sort of widespread suspicion and anxiety that exists now because of what happen and with that t X. It seems to me that things have changed forever in this industry, that everyone's going to be second guessing sort of this notion of oh, here's this quirky outsider sleeping in a being back chair. You think that's fair to say? And you and I had a great story about this as well. If I got a good stories, if I can pat us on the back. What we started to see pretty much over the summer, I would say, or late summer, was a huge wave of people leaving CEO roles at crypto companies, so founders and and people who had sort of built names for themselves within this space leaving, you know, their CEO roles at those companies and up types taking their place so that buttoned up types could could take over. I think we we had some really great quotes from that story as well. One of them said, some founders could be moving on because the industry is getting more professional, and they come from an era where it was more tin hat, where the crypto people were more tin hat basically, and you have more traditional finance types moving in to help clean up the mess. So I wonder, you know, is crypto justis going to be sort of joined at the hip to this kind of masculine, alpha male, tough guy, sort of leader of the pack image or or do you think this will change things? Is there more room for sort of a more reasonable, mild manner type of leader in crypto? Now it's possible. I mean, I don't know, we'll see what actually happens in terms of all of what we're seeing in the wake of f t x is collapse. A lot of people are saying that we're definitely going to be seeing more regulation. So if that's the case, it's possible that you have sort of more serious types coming in. The new CEO of f t X, who I think led Enron through its troubles in the early two thousand's John Jay Ray. He is building this image of himself of being a super studious and serious person and coming out and talking about some of the things that he had unearthed over the last couple of weeks in terms of what had been happening at f t X. So it's possible that we do start to see more people like that coming in and, like I said, sort of clean up the mess. Yeah, you think he sleeps in a beanbag chair? Definitely not, No, definitely not. Well, thank you, Vill Donna. I think Mike you forgot the most important thing about this conversation. What's up? You and I host our own podcast? I forgot about forgot about that. I forgot about the highlight of my week every week. Yes, can I plug it, plug it and plug away as guest hosts? Thank you so much. Soul Stacy Marie finds out all out. Yeah, no, I think she would be happy with this too. I think she's a fan of ours as well. What goes up? What goes up? Wherever you get your podcasts? Yeah, exactly. And also you can find more of Bill Donna's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal and on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to check out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto, dear podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergelina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Farup and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrn. I'm Stacy Marie Schmal We'll be back tomorrow.