Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek Inside, from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek Inside, from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.

This is not my world.

This is not my world.

But bear with me for a second here. Okay, Let's say you're a manufacturer. You've designed a specialized widget, but you need a machine to make said widget.

But bear with me for a second here. Okay, Let's say you're a manufacturer. You've designed a specialized widget, but you need a machine to make said widget.

Okay, are you with me? Yep?

Okay, are you with me? Yep?

Okay, you need special machine designing that machine. It's not in your wheelhouse because you're a widget designer, not a widget machine designer. That's where ventionin comes in. It's a cloud robotics platform that allows people of all stripes to build their own custom industrial machines. It's got some big backers, Ban Capital Ventures, Georgian Fidelity Investment, Canada, Bolt Ventures, among others. It counts Amazon, Bowing, Blue Origin, and Striker among its clients. That's according to its website. We've got with us the founder and CEO of at Bention, Atien Lacroix. He joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio.

Okay, you need special machine designing that machine. It's not in your wheelhouse because you're a widget designer, not a widget machine designer. That's where ventionin comes in. It's a cloud robotics platform that allows people of all stripes to build their own custom industrial machines. It's got some big backers, Ban Capital Ventures, Georgian Fidelity Investment, Canada, Bolt Ventures, among others. It counts Amazon, Bowing, Blue Origin, and Striker among its clients. That's according to its website. We've got with us the founder and CEO of at Bention, Atien Lacroix. He joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio.

How did I do? Did I describe? You say?

How did I do? Did I describe? You say?

Right?

Right?

Well, thanks for having met him.

Well, thanks for having met him.

Thanks. You create the machines that create the widgets.

Thanks. You create the machines that create the widgets.

We create the machine that create the machine. Correct, And we help small meats in business mostly get starting where they're in dashall automation journey.

We create the machine that create the machine. Correct, And we help small meats in business mostly get starting where they're in dashall automation journey.

So you said small and medium businesses, but some of your clients are huge, I mean Boeing, Blue Origin Striker, those are Amazon. Amazon is not a smaller medium size.

So you said small and medium businesses, but some of your clients are huge, I mean Boeing, Blue Origin Striker, those are Amazon. Amazon is not a smaller medium size.

Correct, we serve both.

Correct, we serve both.

But let me speak about small meats and business first, right, those are ninety percent of the business manufacturing business in North America, and they face the same labor shortages and cash pleasure as those bigger client Yet it's really really hard for them to automate profitably today with indush all automation technology. If we want to solve to some extent the manufacturing renaissance, this is the problem to solve small meats and businesses. And that's what we're trying to do here, Adventure.

But let me speak about small meats and business first, right, those are ninety percent of the business manufacturing business in North America, and they face the same labor shortages and cash pleasure as those bigger client Yet it's really really hard for them to automate profitably today with indush all automation technology. If we want to solve to some extent the manufacturing renaissance, this is the problem to solve small meats and businesses. And that's what we're trying to do here, Adventure.

Well, it's the bulk of the backbone, Like we talk about, right, what is really the backbone of our economy? And there's so much you know, obviously small businesses, but in the MidCap space, there's so much that goes on. We don't necessarily spend as much time as we do to the big cap names, but so much is going on there. What would surprise someone who was listening about your business?

Well, it's the bulk of the backbone, Like we talk about, right, what is really the backbone of our economy? And there's so much you know, obviously small businesses, but in the MidCap space, there's so much that goes on. We don't necessarily spend as much time as we do to the big cap names, but so much is going on there. What would surprise someone who was listening about your business?

Right? I think what's changing in the world of industrial automation is what I call software platforming and hardware productization. Software platforming basically is the ability for somebody who designed machine to do all the act of design, programming, deployment in a single platform versus six to ten different points solution today. And hardware productization is having kind of lego kits industrial lego kits where all the components are de facto compatible with one another. When you bring those two things in the same platform, magic happen and you can make the act of designing those machines that make the machine significantly faster and accessible to small measum manufacturers.

Right? I think what's changing in the world of industrial automation is what I call software platforming and hardware productization. Software platforming basically is the ability for somebody who designed machine to do all the act of design, programming, deployment in a single platform versus six to ten different points solution today. And hardware productization is having kind of lego kits industrial lego kits where all the components are de facto compatible with one another. When you bring those two things in the same platform, magic happen and you can make the act of designing those machines that make the machine significantly faster and accessible to small measum manufacturers.

Give us an example, like I think, if somebody's listening, and like I get when you're kind of talking like big picture and stuff, But give us an example of something that you've done without maybe giving away too much of what you.

Give us an example, like I think, if somebody's listening, and like I get when you're kind of talking like big picture and stuff, But give us an example of something that you've done without maybe giving away too much of what you.

Have done for a customer. Let's see, you're a small om decore manufacturer. You're manufacturing good frame for Walmart, and you need to apply glue. There's a machine that needs for that. In fact, on manufacturing floor, most manufacturing assets are custom made. They're unique, they're unique to the finish good being manufacturer. And as a result, those unique finish good manufacturing asset needs to be designed and program So you're the small medium frame manufacturers. With frame manufacturers, you need to figure out how to staple that frame, how to apply glue, how to apply to back cover. Today those things are made with custom machine that are designed with traditional technique.

Have done for a customer. Let's see, you're a small om decore manufacturer. You're manufacturing good frame for Walmart, and you need to apply glue. There's a machine that needs for that. In fact, on manufacturing floor, most manufacturing assets are custom made. They're unique, they're unique to the finish good being manufacturer. And as a result, those unique finish good manufacturing asset needs to be designed and program So you're the small medium frame manufacturers. With frame manufacturers, you need to figure out how to staple that frame, how to apply glue, how to apply to back cover. Today those things are made with custom machine that are designed with traditional technique.

So how much time and money does your technique say versus a traditional technique.

So how much time and money does your technique say versus a traditional technique.

When you start to platform and productize, what we see our users save is around forty percent and go three to five time faster than more traditional industrial automation technology. This is a game changer for the industry.

When you start to platform and productize, what we see our users save is around forty percent and go three to five time faster than more traditional industrial automation technology. This is a game changer for the industry.

So you're actually creating the equipment. I bring this right because I'm bringing this up like early on as a college kid, and my mom worked for a company and I would spend some time in summers and my time off working for them.

So you're actually creating the equipment. I bring this right because I'm bringing this up like early on as a college kid, and my mom worked for a company and I would spend some time in summers and my time off working for them.

And they were a.

And they were a.

Plastic company and they made things like sprockets and gears, and they would have molding, and they would have all these corporate customers, and they would custom design the molds, if you will, to make whatever designs they needed. So you guys are actually doing if I was kind of doing apples to apples, the molds or the devices and designs to make whatever that they have.

Plastic company and they made things like sprockets and gears, and they would have molding, and they would have all these corporate customers, and they would custom design the molds, if you will, to make whatever designs they needed. So you guys are actually doing if I was kind of doing apples to apples, the molds or the devices and designs to make whatever that they have.

All that gear that is an initial mold that needs to be put in and out of a machine. At least a human doing that today, but it could be a robot and that robot needs to figure out how to take the part out of the machine, how to put it in the trade when you go to the next operation. That machine that replaced a human is unique, and those machines are really really hard to design today, right, That's what we're solving.

All that gear that is an initial mold that needs to be put in and out of a machine. At least a human doing that today, but it could be a robot and that robot needs to figure out how to take the part out of the machine, how to put it in the trade when you go to the next operation. That machine that replaced a human is unique, and those machines are really really hard to design today, right, That's what we're solving.

So like you do have some big customers though you have Tesla, you have Facebook, you have Apple, can you can you share what you.

So like you do have some big customers though you have Tesla, you have Facebook, you have Apple, can you can you share what you.

Do for them? So even in those large troueput manufacturers, you always found what I call secondary in tertiary process. It's not the finel assembly line, it's perhaps the metrology lab or perhaps the R and D lab, and those lower troteput processes also need to be automated, and it's really really hard to automate with today's technology because the cost is simply not compatible with the payback. That's what we're going to do with those Tesla and Apple of the world.

Do for them? So even in those large troueput manufacturers, you always found what I call secondary in tertiary process. It's not the finel assembly line, it's perhaps the metrology lab or perhaps the R and D lab, and those lower troteput processes also need to be automated, and it's really really hard to automate with today's technology because the cost is simply not compatible with the payback. That's what we're going to do with those Tesla and Apple of the world.

So if somebody were to use the product, or when somebody does use the product, they design it using their web browser correct sort of like a version of CAD on the web browser.

So if somebody were to use the product, or when somebody does use the product, they design it using their web browser correct sort of like a version of CAD on the web browser.

You designed with Industrial Lego. You go online, you will design with a library of Industrial Lego parts, robot conveyor, sensor motors. You will see price in real time, assembly time, in real time automatic Billo material. When you're done, you program in a code for your environment, so we keep the experience simple, and you order and you get your IKEA box equivalent the next day.

You designed with Industrial Lego. You go online, you will design with a library of Industrial Lego parts, robot conveyor, sensor motors. You will see price in real time, assembly time, in real time automatic Billo material. When you're done, you program in a code for your environment, so we keep the experience simple, and you order and you get your IKEA box equivalent the next day.

That's what I was gonnample. That's how much time does it take.

That's what I was gonnample. That's how much time does it take.

So from an ideation of a machine to the delivered machine, we have client to go as fast as three days, and that contrasts with the traditional world of automation where those project takes three eight to nine months.

So from an ideation of a machine to the delivered machine, we have client to go as fast as three days, and that contrasts with the traditional world of automation where those project takes three eight to nine months.

You know, when you're setting up something for my ki ed has the picture of like the two people standing there scratching their heads. Yeah, and they're like the question mark is over their.

You know, when you're setting up something for my ki ed has the picture of like the two people standing there scratching their heads. Yeah, and they're like the question mark is over their.

Head that you stare at me.

Head that you stare at me.

We make it easier than I keep.

We make it easier than I keep.

We actually laser engrave departm nuber on the parts, you know what goes where?

We actually laser engrave departm nuber on the parts, you know what goes where?

Okay, That's what I was going to check. How easasy to do?

Okay, That's what I was going to check. How easasy to do?

Like how much customization do you have to ultimately do? Because it sounds like you guys have things that people can kind of take off the shelf, right, but how much customization goes into this process?

Like how much customization do you have to ultimately do? Because it sounds like you guys have things that people can kind of take off the shelf, right, but how much customization goes into this process?

There's around twenty ten plates available online for people to jump start in their journey, but most people design again machine that are unique to them.

There's around twenty ten plates available online for people to jump start in their journey, but most people design again machine that are unique to them.

Right.

Right.

The goal is not to serve here a control expert to a roboticists. The goal is to serve an average manufacturing professional who knows this shop well but couldn't do it if the tool is too complex.

The goal is not to serve here a control expert to a roboticists. The goal is to serve an average manufacturing professional who knows this shop well but couldn't do it if the tool is too complex.

How often does that average manufacturer need to pay you money? Because I'm thinking here, is there an opportunity for recurring revenue?

How often does that average manufacturer need to pay you money? Because I'm thinking here, is there an opportunity for recurring revenue?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Or is this like you know, you fill your shop with the parts you need and then you don't need to go back to them.

Or is this like you know, you fill your shop with the parts you need and then you don't need to go back to them.

Actually, most of our business is actually reoccurring. This sort of thing recurring, and those manufacturers when they learn the tool that are freely available online, stick to it because it's so easier and more convenient and more traditional approach.

Actually, most of our business is actually reoccurring. This sort of thing recurring, and those manufacturers when they learn the tool that are freely available online, stick to it because it's so easier and more convenient and more traditional approach.

So for their next machines, and we go for.

So for their next machines, and we go for.

The next machine, and the next machine and the next machine.

The next machine, and the next machine and the next machine.

So the business that you are seeing did you play in like the small and mid cap space, although you do have some really well known companies as well. What you are seeing, what does it tell you about the level of business activity that's happening right now, and what does it tell you about the business and comments.

So the business that you are seeing did you play in like the small and mid cap space, although you do have some really well known companies as well. What you are seeing, what does it tell you about the level of business activity that's happening right now, and what does it tell you about the business and comments.

So we're definitely operating at a lower level than what we've seen in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one and mid twenty twenty two.

So we're definitely operating at a lower level than what we've seen in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one and mid twenty twenty two.

Right that said, the.

Right that said, the.

Cash pressure and the labor shortage are just as intense as they were back then.

Cash pressure and the labor shortage are just as intense as they were back then.

So the pressure, the need to automate.

So the pressure, the need to automate.

The long tail positive, the long tail win is there until twenty thirty because the labor shortage in the United States is structural until that time.

The long tail positive, the long tail win is there until twenty thirty because the labor shortage in the United States is structural until that time.

So what does that mean for your business in terms of what kind of growth you into quite twenty thirty, you're seeing that's a pretty long runway. You're saying six years out that you say the labor market there's going to be shortages, correct.

So what does that mean for your business in terms of what kind of growth you into quite twenty thirty, you're seeing that's a pretty long runway. You're saying six years out that you say the labor market there's going to be shortages, correct.

Right, So we're very well positioned to leverage those tails win and help those small businesses automated by themselves profitable. Now, yeah, there's a lot to build to build the next industrial automation giant. So we deliberately invest quite a bit in R and d IPO on the horizon because mention Is is a platform business and there's so many revenue stream monetization potential. Yes, Mention as the characteristic to be an apeable business.

Right, So we're very well positioned to leverage those tails win and help those small businesses automated by themselves profitable. Now, yeah, there's a lot to build to build the next industrial automation giant. So we deliberately invest quite a bit in R and d IPO on the horizon because mention Is is a platform business and there's so many revenue stream monetization potential. Yes, Mention as the characteristic to be an apeable business.

Very cool.

Very cool.

Staff. Yeah, when you know, we'll see what the future brings to us. But that at ridden we grow, we believe is going to be possible behind the before the end of the decay.

Staff. Yeah, when you know, we'll see what the future brings to us. But that at ridden we grow, we believe is going to be possible behind the before the end of the decay.

Thanks all right, at On Laqua, thank you so much, Founder and CEO of Bention. Joining us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio, Carol Master, Jim Stanevik. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek.

Thanks all right, at On Laqua, thank you so much, Founder and CEO of Bention. Joining us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio, Carol Master, Jim Stanevik. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen on Apple, card Play and and brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, or want us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen on Apple, card Play and and brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, or want us live on YouTube.

Well chairs of the microcap publicly traded biotech Koya Therapeutic, surging earlier today up as much as eleven percent, on news that the Alzheimer's Drug Discovery Foundation has purchased more than six hundred and three thousand company shares for total investment about five million dollars. Here to talk about the investment and on the work they are doing around als treatments as well as Alzheimer's is Howard Berman, chairman and CEO of Koya Therapeutic, joining us from Boston. That's stock, by the way, up close twenty percent so far this year.

Well chairs of the microcap publicly traded biotech Koya Therapeutic, surging earlier today up as much as eleven percent, on news that the Alzheimer's Drug Discovery Foundation has purchased more than six hundred and three thousand company shares for total investment about five million dollars. Here to talk about the investment and on the work they are doing around als treatments as well as Alzheimer's is Howard Berman, chairman and CEO of Koya Therapeutic, joining us from Boston. That's stock, by the way, up close twenty percent so far this year.

Howard, nice to have you with us.

Howard, nice to have you with us.

Tell us a little bit about your company, because you're working on some really serious stuff that impacts the brain that I think, unfortunately pretty much everyone who's listening or watching right now has dealt with in terms of their family or somebody close to them.

Tell us a little bit about your company, because you're working on some really serious stuff that impacts the brain that I think, unfortunately pretty much everyone who's listening or watching right now has dealt with in terms of their family or somebody close to them.

Lay it all out for us, if.

Lay it all out for us, if.

You could, what you're working on and how you think you're able to pull it off.

You could, what you're working on and how you think you're able to pull it off.

Right, well, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here today, and just to say that I am one of those people who it's affected directly. My own father, unfortunately, a brilliant clinician, he himself had dementia and unfortunately passed away. So this is very personal to me that we're developing therapeutics for neurodegenerative diseases, including dementias as well as Lukeerrig's disease, which is as people know, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. And what we're doing is we have therapeutics that target multiple pathways that are involved in inflammation inflammatory pathways. The goal here is to dampen the inflammation, which we've discovered plays a central role in the path of physiology of these diseases.

Right, well, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here today, and just to say that I am one of those people who it's affected directly. My own father, unfortunately, a brilliant clinician, he himself had dementia and unfortunately passed away. So this is very personal to me that we're developing therapeutics for neurodegenerative diseases, including dementias as well as Lukeerrig's disease, which is as people know, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. And what we're doing is we have therapeutics that target multiple pathways that are involved in inflammation inflammatory pathways. The goal here is to dampen the inflammation, which we've discovered plays a central role in the path of physiology of these diseases.

I think it's interesting that and Howard, great to have you here with us. I do feel like we are learning more and more about the body overall and the importance of inflammation right and how do we either prevent that to begin with, but that it is often the cause of so many things that ail us. When it comes to ALS specifically, it is ALS Awareness Month, also known as lou Gerrigg's disease, the famous New York Yankees baseball player who had to retire because he was diagnosed with it and had come down with that. It is at this point, if you get that diagnosis, the outlook is not good.

I think it's interesting that and Howard, great to have you here with us. I do feel like we are learning more and more about the body overall and the importance of inflammation right and how do we either prevent that to begin with, but that it is often the cause of so many things that ail us. When it comes to ALS specifically, it is ALS Awareness Month, also known as lou Gerrigg's disease, the famous New York Yankees baseball player who had to retire because he was diagnosed with it and had come down with that. It is at this point, if you get that diagnosis, the outlook is not good.

The outlook is terrible. Patients typically die within two to three years on average, so the disease is incessant. The patients decline month upon month, and the problem has been is that the drugs that have been used so far the mechanism have not been well defined and not well understood. But again, inflammation is the central component in ALS, but the problem was as you cannot target one pathway, one has to target multiple inflammatory pathways. Which is why I believe that the Olzheimer Drug Discovery Foundation, who we just received this investment, liked what we were doing because they too believe that targeting multiple cascades and pathways are the future of treatment.

The outlook is terrible. Patients typically die within two to three years on average, so the disease is incessant. The patients decline month upon month, and the problem has been is that the drugs that have been used so far the mechanism have not been well defined and not well understood. But again, inflammation is the central component in ALS, but the problem was as you cannot target one pathway, one has to target multiple inflammatory pathways. Which is why I believe that the Olzheimer Drug Discovery Foundation, who we just received this investment, liked what we were doing because they too believe that targeting multiple cascades and pathways are the future of treatment.

So what does this investment do for you? And you're right, your stock really popped initially on the news, up as much as eleven percent, as Tip mentioned earlier. I think it's a little changed on the day as we speak, but we're talking about about a five million dollar investment. What does this do for you, guys, specifically in your work.

So what does this investment do for you? And you're right, your stock really popped initially on the news, up as much as eleven percent, as Tip mentioned earlier. I think it's a little changed on the day as we speak, but we're talking about about a five million dollar investment. What does this do for you, guys, specifically in your work.

While we are focused entirely, at least initially on ALS, we have expanded our pipeline. We're now moving into fronto temporal dementia, which is the second most common type of dementia after Alzheimer's disease, And so this money allows us to pursue a trial, a phase two trial to be filed this year and I in D filed this year and unfortunately an FTD fronder temporal dementia. There are no approved treatments for that condition. So we will work alongside the ADDF to pursue this indication and we're going to run a rigorous trial that answers a number of questions and we hope that this therapy may make a meaningful difference in patients.

While we are focused entirely, at least initially on ALS, we have expanded our pipeline. We're now moving into fronto temporal dementia, which is the second most common type of dementia after Alzheimer's disease, And so this money allows us to pursue a trial, a phase two trial to be filed this year and I in D filed this year and unfortunately an FTD fronder temporal dementia. There are no approved treatments for that condition. So we will work alongside the ADDF to pursue this indication and we're going to run a rigorous trial that answers a number of questions and we hope that this therapy may make a meaningful difference in patients.

Hey, Howard, how does your approach here differ from the approach of other companies that are working on.

Hey, Howard, how does your approach here differ from the approach of other companies that are working on.

This So, as I mentioned, inflammation is a central pathway and mechanism in these diseases. Many other companies target one pathway where they target a cytokind, but that we believe is not sufficient. So what we do is we enhance the regulatory t cells the t rex we call them, which are anti inflammatory cells. But that is not all that we do. We also block other pro inflammatory pathways with another drug called CTLA four, and that reduces or inhibits the other cascades that are responsible for the disease path of physiology. So by doing both the upregating the regulatory T cells down regulating the pro inflammatory cascades, you're able to slow the inflammation or block the inflammatory process and an ameliorate or relieve these the disease conditions and part of the pathways that are responsible for a progression.

This So, as I mentioned, inflammation is a central pathway and mechanism in these diseases. Many other companies target one pathway where they target a cytokind, but that we believe is not sufficient. So what we do is we enhance the regulatory t cells the t rex we call them, which are anti inflammatory cells. But that is not all that we do. We also block other pro inflammatory pathways with another drug called CTLA four, and that reduces or inhibits the other cascades that are responsible for the disease path of physiology. So by doing both the upregating the regulatory T cells down regulating the pro inflammatory cascades, you're able to slow the inflammation or block the inflammatory process and an ameliorate or relieve these the disease conditions and part of the pathways that are responsible for a progression.

All Right, it sounds logical. I'm not going to say it sounds simplistic because it doesn't. But I'm listening to your train of thought, and I'm like, I kind of get this, But I'm assuming none of this is ever ever easy. What's the most complicated part of this? And is this only for patients and at a certain stage of the disease, is there a point where the inflammation or the ailment is so severe that it's just it's not going to work.

All Right, it sounds logical. I'm not going to say it sounds simplistic because it doesn't. But I'm listening to your train of thought, and I'm like, I kind of get this, But I'm assuming none of this is ever ever easy. What's the most complicated part of this? And is this only for patients and at a certain stage of the disease, is there a point where the inflammation or the ailment is so severe that it's just it's not going to work.

We don't have an answer to that, but we've tested this combination already in Olzheimer's disease, and we were very surprised in the early studies in mild to moderate patients, which are more advanced patients, those patients actually responded. Those patients their cognition was enhanced, and in als, in patients who weren't doing very well, the ALS progression was stopped, so we believe that you can that this therapy or this regimen may have an impact in more advanced stages. However, we do want to start testing this initially in patients who are less progressed, to give the therapy the best chance of success, at least initially.

We don't have an answer to that, but we've tested this combination already in Olzheimer's disease, and we were very surprised in the early studies in mild to moderate patients, which are more advanced patients, those patients actually responded. Those patients their cognition was enhanced, and in als, in patients who weren't doing very well, the ALS progression was stopped, so we believe that you can that this therapy or this regimen may have an impact in more advanced stages. However, we do want to start testing this initially in patients who are less progressed, to give the therapy the best chance of success, at least initially.

I'm curious about competitors out there. There's an FDA advisory committee meeting on the ELI Lilly Alzheimer's drug coming up in early June, though has been delayed amid concerns about its unusual trial design. I'm wondering how important you think this advisory committee is going to be.

I'm curious about competitors out there. There's an FDA advisory committee meeting on the ELI Lilly Alzheimer's drug coming up in early June, though has been delayed amid concerns about its unusual trial design. I'm wondering how important you think this advisory committee is going to be.

Yeah, well, advisory committees are important because they involve thought leaders and experts in certainly, the FDA uses them to help guide their decisions. Let me tell you about the approach that's typically taken at this point in Olzheimer's disease. They the targeting of beta amyloid, which is this protein, this misfolded protein, the sticky protein, if you will, that's responsible or partly responsible for Alzheimer's disease. It's a complex story and while the existing therapistes have shown slowing of progression, there are lots of side effects and there is toxicities associated with it, and it's only a mild slowing of progression over a period of time. The advisory committee will do their best. They know that there is a huge unmet need and patients are in desperate need and their families are in desperate need. So they're doing the right thing, and the FDA advisory committees are also doing the right thing. Everyone is trying to come together to protect patients, but also to make sure that the treatments that they do approve and that they keep on the market are safe and efficacious as well.

Yeah, well, advisory committees are important because they involve thought leaders and experts in certainly, the FDA uses them to help guide their decisions. Let me tell you about the approach that's typically taken at this point in Olzheimer's disease. They the targeting of beta amyloid, which is this protein, this misfolded protein, the sticky protein, if you will, that's responsible or partly responsible for Alzheimer's disease. It's a complex story and while the existing therapistes have shown slowing of progression, there are lots of side effects and there is toxicities associated with it, and it's only a mild slowing of progression over a period of time. The advisory committee will do their best. They know that there is a huge unmet need and patients are in desperate need and their families are in desperate need. So they're doing the right thing, and the FDA advisory committees are also doing the right thing. Everyone is trying to come together to protect patients, but also to make sure that the treatments that they do approve and that they keep on the market are safe and efficacious as well.

Hey, I do wonder, and I'm sure you've seen it sixty minutes doctor oli Razai and basically using ultrasound to help in the penetration of drugs for whether it's Alzheimer's also addiction, and I do wonder whether that is something that might need to be paired with what you are doing.

Hey, I do wonder, and I'm sure you've seen it sixty minutes doctor oli Razai and basically using ultrasound to help in the penetration of drugs for whether it's Alzheimer's also addiction, and I do wonder whether that is something that might need to be paired with what you are doing.

Sure, so, people in the past have looked at the mechanisms of trying to enhance the penetration of drugs into the brain. What you typically find in Alzheimer's disease is that the blood brain barrier is somewhat leaky, which means that drugs that normally would not have crossed or in a normal healthy individual, make cross in patients with Allzheimer's disease. But I think the most central thing to understand is we target inflammation, and if you can modify inflammation in the periphery in your blood, that actively involves manipulating the cells in the central nervous system in the brain, because the immune cells can move back and forth from the periphery to the brain. So in our case we don't need to manipulate the blood brain barrier, but there are also issues or possible toxic effects by trying to make the blood brain barrier more penetrant for drugs in the periphery.

Sure, so, people in the past have looked at the mechanisms of trying to enhance the penetration of drugs into the brain. What you typically find in Alzheimer's disease is that the blood brain barrier is somewhat leaky, which means that drugs that normally would not have crossed or in a normal healthy individual, make cross in patients with Allzheimer's disease. But I think the most central thing to understand is we target inflammation, and if you can modify inflammation in the periphery in your blood, that actively involves manipulating the cells in the central nervous system in the brain, because the immune cells can move back and forth from the periphery to the brain. So in our case we don't need to manipulate the blood brain barrier, but there are also issues or possible toxic effects by trying to make the blood brain barrier more penetrant for drugs in the periphery.

Well, I just you know, was something the top of mind from me. I spent some time talking to doctor Rozzia at Milkin and one of the speakers.

Well, I just you know, was something the top of mind from me. I spent some time talking to doctor Rozzia at Milkin and one of the speakers.

So I hope you.

So I hope you.

Will come back, I know, phase two trials once you guys know a little bit more. I hope you will touch base again because this is obviously something on the mind of a lot of us, and as you said, you've had personal experience, and we certainly all have personal experience with that as well, So I hope you will come again. Howard Berman chairman Cefkoya Therapeutic joining us right there, I'm brother Mack.

Will come back, I know, phase two trials once you guys know a little bit more. I hope you will touch base again because this is obviously something on the mind of a lot of us, and as you said, you've had personal experience, and we certainly all have personal experience with that as well, So I hope you will come again. Howard Berman chairman Cefkoya Therapeutic joining us right there, I'm brother Mack.

Journal.

Journal.

How about you let me drive?

How about you let me drive?

Oh no, no, no, no, alright please, I'll do the riding gravels.

Oh no, no, no, no, alright please, I'll do the riding gravels.

Elease, mate, I want to drive.

Elease, mate, I want to drive.

It's a good question time.

It's a good question time.

This is the drive to the Globe dot com for me.

This is the drive to the Globe dot com for me.

Think well, brun Young.

Think well, brun Young.

Don on Bloomberg Radio.

Don on Bloomberg Radio.

All right, everybody, just about eighteen minutes left in today's trading session, getting ready to wrap up this Monday trade. And as you said to him, anything in the green on the S and P five hundred would be another record. It would be the twenty fourth record on the S and P five hundred this year.

All right, everybody, just about eighteen minutes left in today's trading session, getting ready to wrap up this Monday trade. And as you said to him, anything in the green on the S and P five hundred would be another record. It would be the twenty fourth record on the S and P five hundred this year.

The S and B five hundred up one tenth of one percent right now, the NASDAK up seven tenths of one. But that's the numbers enough so far this year, Carol, Yeah, twelve percent up on the Nasdaq. Can posit eleven point three percent.

The S and B five hundred up one tenth of one percent right now, the NASDAK up seven tenths of one. But that's the numbers enough so far this year, Carol, Yeah, twelve percent up on the Nasdaq. Can posit eleven point three percent.

On the S and P five hundred. Yeah, I'm looking at the SMA.

On the S and P five hundred. Yeah, I'm looking at the SMA.

It's not about sell and may go away. Oh wait does that happen?

It's not about sell and may go away. Oh wait does that happen?

Could it?

Could it?

It depends on the year.

It depends on the year.

All right, let's get to at our clothes, our drive to the close.

All right, let's get to at our clothes, our drive to the close.

Guest is with us. Back with us.

Guest is with us. Back with us.

Lamar Villary, portfolio manager at Villary and Company. They have about one point six billion in assets under management. He joins us from New Orleans. By the way, the Villary equity fund up nearly five percent year to date, underperforming most of its peers, according to Bloomberg Data. Lamar, great to have you back with Tim and myself. What's fun about talking with you guys is that you get into names. But let's talk about performance because you know that that is certainly a benchmark. What is it about this year that maybe is more difficult for you guys and kind of figure out where you want to be with your portfolio?

Lamar Villary, portfolio manager at Villary and Company. They have about one point six billion in assets under management. He joins us from New Orleans. By the way, the Villary equity fund up nearly five percent year to date, underperforming most of its peers, according to Bloomberg Data. Lamar, great to have you back with Tim and myself. What's fun about talking with you guys is that you get into names. But let's talk about performance because you know that that is certainly a benchmark. What is it about this year that maybe is more difficult for you guys and kind of figure out where you want to be with your portfolio?

Sure?

Sure?

So, I mean basically we tend to be a little bit smaller cap in size, so our focus is on the smaller companies, which we think have a better chance to perform the long run. Unfortunately, you know, the stories you know over the recent times has been you know, big tech, big tech, big tech X. So that's that's been a challenge for us. But we're sticking super guns.

So, I mean basically we tend to be a little bit smaller cap in size, so our focus is on the smaller companies, which we think have a better chance to perform the long run. Unfortunately, you know, the stories you know over the recent times has been you know, big tech, big tech, big tech X. So that's that's been a challenge for us. But we're sticking super guns.

M Why are you so? Why do you have so much conviction?

M Why are you so? Why do you have so much conviction?

Well, you know, we think some of those the big you know, the Netflixes and Googles of the world.

Well, you know, we think some of those the big you know, the Netflixes and Googles of the world.

They're attractive companies that are performing well.

They're attractive companies that are performing well.

But unfortunately there those are very crowded trades, and and to heighten that, we think that a lot of people are just sort of plunking money into the s and p blindly. So you're resulting in a situation where you have a huge exposure to one small area and it tends to be pretty expensive. So we it's our view that that that trade is going to unwind and it's going to be a much better outcome for guys like us who are really more focused on the smaller companies.

But unfortunately there those are very crowded trades, and and to heighten that, we think that a lot of people are just sort of plunking money into the s and p blindly. So you're resulting in a situation where you have a huge exposure to one small area and it tends to be pretty expensive. So we it's our view that that that trade is going to unwind and it's going to be a much better outcome for guys like us who are really more focused on the smaller companies.

I mean, there's no other way to put. It's kind of a lonely trade right now.

I mean, there's no other way to put. It's kind of a lonely trade right now.

I would imagine, Yeah, there's definitely it's more fun to be with the crowds, for sure. But we've learned over you know, over one hundred years we've been around, and that tends to end badly.

I would imagine, Yeah, there's definitely it's more fun to be with the crowds, for sure. But we've learned over you know, over one hundred years we've been around, and that tends to end badly.

So we're sticking with our guns.

So we're sticking with our guns.

What's the catalyst? Is it a lower rate environment as long as we don't run into a recession. How do you see it?

What's the catalyst? Is it a lower rate environment as long as we don't run into a recession. How do you see it?

I can't tell you what the catalyst is going to be, but you know, eventually, when you have everybody piled into the same trade, it tends to end badly for people who are on that board. So we just kind of keep our heads down and focus on what we're doing and finding the best companies at a reasonable price, and that's that's worked out for us and the longer.

I can't tell you what the catalyst is going to be, but you know, eventually, when you have everybody piled into the same trade, it tends to end badly for people who are on that board. So we just kind of keep our heads down and focus on what we're doing and finding the best companies at a reasonable price, and that's that's worked out for us and the longer.

Well, talk to us about a name that you like. Atlas Energy. I mean, it's up forty two percent this year. It's about a two and a half almost actually two point seven billion dollar market cap company. So what is it specifically that you're liking about this. I mean, we've been watching the energy sector and that's certainly been very interesting this year, that's for sure.

Well, talk to us about a name that you like. Atlas Energy. I mean, it's up forty two percent this year. It's about a two and a half almost actually two point seven billion dollar market cap company. So what is it specifically that you're liking about this. I mean, we've been watching the energy sector and that's certainly been very interesting this year, that's for sure.

Yeah, So Atlas specifically, even with the fact that it's traded well in recent months, you're still talking about a company that's training it below ten times next year's earnings. Furthermore, they've got the pipeline, are their Kermit Express, which is going to deliver you know, forty six miles of conveyor belt delivering the sands throughout the Permian basin. So they're gonna have a significant pricing advantage over their competitors. So we think now's a great time that's going to come online. Sorry, to do an express and out of Kerman that's going to come online in the fourth quarter, and we think it's going to contribute meaningfully and we think numbers are.

Yeah, So Atlas specifically, even with the fact that it's traded well in recent months, you're still talking about a company that's training it below ten times next year's earnings. Furthermore, they've got the pipeline, are their Kermit Express, which is going to deliver you know, forty six miles of conveyor belt delivering the sands throughout the Permian basin. So they're gonna have a significant pricing advantage over their competitors. So we think now's a great time that's going to come online. Sorry, to do an express and out of Kerman that's going to come online in the fourth quarter, and we think it's going to contribute meaningfully and we think numbers are.

Going to come up on that.

Going to come up on that.

How long have you guys owned this one?

How long have you guys owned this one?

We've been in it. Well, it's only been public for about a year. We haven't been in quite that long, but we've been.

We've been in it. Well, it's only been public for about a year. We haven't been in quite that long, but we've been.

In it for a while.

In it for a while.

Yeah, and adding to the position.

Yeah, and adding to the position.

We have, Yeah, it's one we're we're excited about.

We have, Yeah, it's one we're we're excited about.

The other one we want to get to is on holding. And I'm going to be full disclosure. I own the sneaks.

The other one we want to get to is on holding. And I'm going to be full disclosure. I own the sneaks.

I think you bought them after you interviewed the CEO. One of the CEOs, Carol is right, yeah.

I think you bought them after you interviewed the CEO. One of the CEOs, Carol is right, yeah.

Here for the marathon.

Here for the marathon.

It's actually the CEO.

It's actually the CEO.

Yeah, yeah, I did. I picked his brain.

Yeah, yeah, I did. I picked his brain.

I was like, okay, so tell me here's what I need. I'm really my feet are a little sensitive, and I'm like, tell me where what I need to do. I bought the sneakers. I paid for them. They are, you know, mindful and fair, Swiss, some Swiss shoes, yes, indeed, So what.

I was like, okay, so tell me here's what I need. I'm really my feet are a little sensitive, and I'm like, tell me where what I need to do. I bought the sneakers. I paid for them. They are, you know, mindful and fair, Swiss, some Swiss shoes, yes, indeed, So what.

Is it that you like about on So it's exciting that you know there's not a lot of shoe companies.

Is it that you like about on So it's exciting that you know there's not a lot of shoe companies.

Also an now performer this year. They're up about forty two percent this year.

Also an now performer this year. They're up about forty two percent this year.

Right, So specifically what happened with this one is the growth has been great. The growth and the margins are great. What was holding it back was that they had some inventory issues and I think a lot of a love investors were pretty scared off by the inventory problems. They seem to have that under control, so things were sailing along pretty well. We think it's going to grow about twenty five percent a year for the next three years. In addition to growing the core footwear, we think there's you know, and growing.

Right, So specifically what happened with this one is the growth has been great. The growth and the margins are great. What was holding it back was that they had some inventory issues and I think a lot of a love investors were pretty scared off by the inventory problems. They seem to have that under control, so things were sailing along pretty well. We think it's going to grow about twenty five percent a year for the next three years. In addition to growing the core footwear, we think there's you know, and growing.

That all over the world.

That all over the world.

They're just getting going at China and showing some success there. Also, we think there's an opportunit you get some growth in a parel that's a very low basis of revenue right now, so we think, you know, it's it's sustainable. You've also got the Olympics this year, which you know, highlight or shine a light on a lot of their athletic companies. So we think on is an interesting place to be in an area where you really don't it's hard to find growth.

They're just getting going at China and showing some success there. Also, we think there's an opportunit you get some growth in a parel that's a very low basis of revenue right now, so we think, you know, it's it's sustainable. You've also got the Olympics this year, which you know, highlight or shine a light on a lot of their athletic companies. So we think on is an interesting place to be in an area where you really don't it's hard to find growth.

All right, I got to ask you, I mean Palmer is another one. You like, it's way up this year. I mean, know you so help me out here, because these are all really top performers, and yet, as we said, you're the fund overall is underperforming. You know, give us a name that's been a little bit more challenging, if you would.

All right, I got to ask you, I mean Palmer is another one. You like, it's way up this year. I mean, know you so help me out here, because these are all really top performers, and yet, as we said, you're the fund overall is underperforming. You know, give us a name that's been a little bit more challenging, if you would.

Well. Over the last year, these have performed well, but it's just in the last couple of months that these have really picked up.

Well. Over the last year, these have performed well, but it's just in the last couple of months that these have really picked up.

So you know, these are the names that we've been growing and focused on.

So you know, these are the names that we've been growing and focused on.

Some other ones in the in your in Hillary equity include JB Hunt among the largest holdings. Yeah, and to Palamar, talk to us about JB Hunt and what you like about JB Hunt.

Some other ones in the in your in Hillary equity include JB Hunt among the largest holdings. Yeah, and to Palamar, talk to us about JB Hunt and what you like about JB Hunt.

Sure, so, we actually purchased JB.

Sure, so, we actually purchased JB.

Hunt during the COVID downturn, and it's just kind of a high quality company that we were able to take advantage of the difficult marketing market environment and.

Hunt during the COVID downturn, and it's just kind of a high quality company that we were able to take advantage of the difficult marketing market environment and.

Take on a position there. It's performed very well.

Take on a position there. It's performed very well.

We tend to believe that the US economy is holding up well and we think the outlook is still bright.

We tend to believe that the US economy is holding up well and we think the outlook is still bright.

You know, rumors of a recession seem to be.

You know, rumors of a recession seem to be.

Not really materializing, so we think the economy is holding up well and JB Hunt obviously is a great way to.

Not really materializing, so we think the economy is holding up well and JB Hunt obviously is a great way to.

Play that, so holding on to it and not looking to get out of it.

Play that, so holding on to it and not looking to get out of it.

Correct.

Correct.

Yeah, do you know we focused on smaller cap companies, but we're not restricted to it where we have an all cap approach that when we are able to find larger companies with interesting valuations, we're able to participate.

Yeah, do you know we focused on smaller cap companies, but we're not restricted to it where we have an all cap approach that when we are able to find larger companies with interesting valuations, we're able to participate.

Yeah, and that's about almost seventeen billion dollar market cap company. Hey listen, I'm Lamar. Thank you so much, and thanks for going kind of in and around your portfolio. We appreciate being able to talk some names with you. Lamar Villary. He's portfolio manager at Villary and Company. As we said, about one point six billion in assets under management joining us there.

Yeah, and that's about almost seventeen billion dollar market cap company. Hey listen, I'm Lamar. Thank you so much, and thanks for going kind of in and around your portfolio. We appreciate being able to talk some names with you. Lamar Villary. He's portfolio manager at Villary and Company. As we said, about one point six billion in assets under management joining us there.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Journal

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Journal