Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

Welcome to Bloomberg Market. It's a special holiday edition. It is a holiday shortened week. I'm Vonne Quinn along with Shanale Masak, and we are just seconds away from those closing bells that you could hear ring at the exchanges. And it's another up date at least for the Dow, but we just flipped negative shenale for the other major indusices, including then I was like one hundred.

Welcome to Bloomberg Market. It's a special holiday edition. It is a holiday shortened week. I'm Vonne Quinn along with Shanale Masak, and we are just seconds away from those closing bells that you could hear ring at the exchanges. And it's another up date at least for the Dow, but we just flipped negative shenale for the other major indusices, including then I was like one hundred.

Absolutely fascinating day because you did see that drop off in the ten year yield, but you did still see the S and P five hundred, let lower, the Dow Jones just in the green, the Nasdaq lower, where you saw little lover was outside of those major indexes. You saw the Russell two thousand with that lower yield story up almost one percent, about nine tenths of one percent body. So there was green in the screen somewhere in the market, just not at those major indexes.

Absolutely fascinating day because you did see that drop off in the ten year yield, but you did still see the S and P five hundred, let lower, the Dow Jones just in the green, the Nasdaq lower, where you saw little lover was outside of those major indexes. You saw the Russell two thousand with that lower yield story up almost one percent, about nine tenths of one percent body. So there was green in the screen somewhere in the market, just not at those major indexes.

There were people nibbling today and maybe at the codes they were just taking profits because they're didn't have a long weekend before the beginning of a new year. But joining us now to breakdown today's market moves. Is Bloomberg's Alexandra Semenova and Natalia Kenietievich. So Alex talk to us a little bit about some of the gainers that we saw, because we did see some very very very happy companies today.

There were people nibbling today and maybe at the codes they were just taking profits because they're didn't have a long weekend before the beginning of a new year. But joining us now to breakdown today's market moves. Is Bloomberg's Alexandra Semenova and Natalia Kenietievich. So Alex talk to us a little bit about some of the gainers that we saw, because we did see some very very very happy companies today.

Yeah, Vanni.

Yeah, Vanni.

Even with the Nasdaq one hundred down today, there is a tech a technology sector that has been a big winner in this session. Quantum computing stocks broadly up across the board, a sector that has become an area of intense interest on Wall Street and certainly one to watch in twenty twenty five. DWave Quantum up more than twenty percent, Rerigetti Computing up more than thirty percent, in Quantum Computing up more than ten percent. All these stocks have seen very pronounced moves here to date, up one thousand percent, two thousand percent on some of these names, and again though it's not on fundamentals here, but on the transformative potential of the technology. Take QBTS, for example, a DWave Quantum. This is a company with a two point two billion dollar market cap and just nine million dollars in revenue. Another name, speaking of tech that I'm looking at today is it's up about three tenths of a percent. This is after its price target was raised to a street high of three hundred and twenty five dollars by Wedbush Security Securities by none other, of course, than Dan Ives. He says that the company is heading into a multi year AI driven upgrade cycle. This upgrade cycle, he says, is being underestimated by Wall Street. He has an outperform rating on the stock, of course, and even though the move today was pretty modest on this upgrade, it is up more than thirty percent this year. And finally I'm taking a look also at game Stop. Shares rose as much as ten percent today, up about six percent into the close. And this is of course, after a post on x from Keith Gill, also known as Roaring Kitty. You guys remember him from the game stock saga back in twenty twenty one. This post was an image of a gift on Twitter without any text, so no real reason that the stock is moving higher, and trading volume today was almost five times the twenty day average for this time of day, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The stock also rose for a fifth straight session for its longest winning streak since November first, and game Stop shares are up about eighty six percent this year.

Even with the Nasdaq one hundred down today, there is a tech a technology sector that has been a big winner in this session. Quantum computing stocks broadly up across the board, a sector that has become an area of intense interest on Wall Street and certainly one to watch in twenty twenty five. DWave Quantum up more than twenty percent, Rerigetti Computing up more than thirty percent, in Quantum Computing up more than ten percent. All these stocks have seen very pronounced moves here to date, up one thousand percent, two thousand percent on some of these names, and again though it's not on fundamentals here, but on the transformative potential of the technology. Take QBTS, for example, a DWave Quantum. This is a company with a two point two billion dollar market cap and just nine million dollars in revenue. Another name, speaking of tech that I'm looking at today is it's up about three tenths of a percent. This is after its price target was raised to a street high of three hundred and twenty five dollars by Wedbush Security Securities by none other, of course, than Dan Ives. He says that the company is heading into a multi year AI driven upgrade cycle. This upgrade cycle, he says, is being underestimated by Wall Street. He has an outperform rating on the stock, of course, and even though the move today was pretty modest on this upgrade, it is up more than thirty percent this year. And finally I'm taking a look also at game Stop. Shares rose as much as ten percent today, up about six percent into the close. And this is of course, after a post on x from Keith Gill, also known as Roaring Kitty. You guys remember him from the game stock saga back in twenty twenty one. This post was an image of a gift on Twitter without any text, so no real reason that the stock is moving higher, and trading volume today was almost five times the twenty day average for this time of day, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The stock also rose for a fifth straight session for its longest winning streak since November first, and game Stop shares are up about eighty six percent this year.

Guys appreciate it so much, Natalia. Let's take a look at the decliners on the day. We bring in Italian Nazevich for that, right.

Guys appreciate it so much, Natalia. Let's take a look at the decliners on the day. We bring in Italian Nazevich for that, right.

So, I'm looking at energy producers guys, specifically companies that are related to natural gas industry. We see stocks like Targa, it's one of the worst performance in the s and P five hundred AQT is also lower, and the main reason for that is natural gas futures. We see that natural gas posted almost a seven percent decline on Thursday, and that was driven by forecasts. Now, forecasters expect a little bit warmer than expected weather in the last couple days of twenty twenty four. As a result, it always built concerns about some oversupply, and futures of natural gas move lower. As a result. We see that natural gas companies are moving lower as well. And another stock that I'm keeping an eye on is of course, micro Strategy. We watch closely what's been happening with bitcoin. It's not moving lower. Micro Strategy shares are down by four percent, almost five percent. Investors are also reacting to companies news to issue additional shares to fund further Bitcoin purchases. Just a reminder, micro Strategy is seeking a permission to increase a number of authorized shares of Class A common stock and preferred stock. That's according to December twenty twenty three filing. And of course Bitcoin will be still volatile tomorrow as well because we see a huge option expiration tomorrow. As a result, we will keep an eye on all cryptorelated stocks.

So, I'm looking at energy producers guys, specifically companies that are related to natural gas industry. We see stocks like Targa, it's one of the worst performance in the s and P five hundred AQT is also lower, and the main reason for that is natural gas futures. We see that natural gas posted almost a seven percent decline on Thursday, and that was driven by forecasts. Now, forecasters expect a little bit warmer than expected weather in the last couple days of twenty twenty four. As a result, it always built concerns about some oversupply, and futures of natural gas move lower. As a result. We see that natural gas companies are moving lower as well. And another stock that I'm keeping an eye on is of course, micro Strategy. We watch closely what's been happening with bitcoin. It's not moving lower. Micro Strategy shares are down by four percent, almost five percent. Investors are also reacting to companies news to issue additional shares to fund further Bitcoin purchases. Just a reminder, micro Strategy is seeking a permission to increase a number of authorized shares of Class A common stock and preferred stock. That's according to December twenty twenty three filing. And of course Bitcoin will be still volatile tomorrow as well because we see a huge option expiration tomorrow. As a result, we will keep an eye on all cryptorelated stocks.

Yes, there's going to be a lot of vilesilcy between now and the end of the year. It looks like Natalia. Also, the VIX index itself not shoining too much fear. Today the VIX was down to under fifteen. Of course, we know that that can move pretty quickly. So in general, we had a sort of a mixed day, about two hundred stocks lower and nearly three hundred stocks higher, but not hugely higher. But that's still pretty good breath.

Yes, there's going to be a lot of vilesilcy between now and the end of the year. It looks like Natalia. Also, the VIX index itself not shoining too much fear. Today the VIX was down to under fifteen. Of course, we know that that can move pretty quickly. So in general, we had a sort of a mixed day, about two hundred stocks lower and nearly three hundred stocks higher, but not hugely higher. But that's still pretty good breath.

Right, still pretty good breath. Yes, and again we are still looking at final trading days of this year if we will see more potential upside move driven by the so called Santa Claus rally. And now, as you mentioned, volatility is also on traders radar. What I heard from sources I spoke with next year will be a little bit different. This year was volatile. We saw huge moves in the Vigsy index. But they say that next year volatility will be a little bit more predictable because they it will be driven by Donald Trump's It will be driven by Donald Trump's policies, and as soon as traders know what exactly he will implement, it will cause of course volatility. But you can play volatility in a little bit different way and potentially again more because this year, for example, when we looked at those role control funds, those funds typically follow the market direction, they were lagging because it was so hard to predict volatility moves in twenty twenty four. So lots of expectations that next year will be a little bit different.

Right, still pretty good breath. Yes, and again we are still looking at final trading days of this year if we will see more potential upside move driven by the so called Santa Claus rally. And now, as you mentioned, volatility is also on traders radar. What I heard from sources I spoke with next year will be a little bit different. This year was volatile. We saw huge moves in the Vigsy index. But they say that next year volatility will be a little bit more predictable because they it will be driven by Donald Trump's It will be driven by Donald Trump's policies, and as soon as traders know what exactly he will implement, it will cause of course volatility. But you can play volatility in a little bit different way and potentially again more because this year, for example, when we looked at those role control funds, those funds typically follow the market direction, they were lagging because it was so hard to predict volatility moves in twenty twenty four. So lots of expectations that next year will be a little bit different.

Ladies, thank you so much for joining us today. Of course, hard at work into the end of the year. We're all just kind of wiping off our calendars and playbooks to prepare for twenty twenty five and the end of the trade.

Ladies, thank you so much for joining us today. Of course, hard at work into the end of the year. We're all just kind of wiping off our calendars and playbooks to prepare for twenty twenty five and the end of the trade.

This year has certainly been strong.

This year has certainly been strong.

We're going to now be joined by Aaron Gibbs, she's chief investment officer at main Street Asset Management, to talk about that playbook. So you think about the gains that we've seen this year how much the S and P has been driven by those megacap tech names, and a lot of people are scouring the market for other opportunities. How do you see those other opportunities playing out, especially when you see how sensitive some of the small cap names have been to the interest rate movements today, the Russell two thousand was your relative gainer exactly.

We're going to now be joined by Aaron Gibbs, she's chief investment officer at main Street Asset Management, to talk about that playbook. So you think about the gains that we've seen this year how much the S and P has been driven by those megacap tech names, and a lot of people are scouring the market for other opportunities. How do you see those other opportunities playing out, especially when you see how sensitive some of the small cap names have been to the interest rate movements today, the Russell two thousand was your relative gainer exactly.

I think now that we have a better sense of where the FED is heading, we're seeing obviously a more stable inflationary environment of slow and steady, and we're also looking at reduction of fiscal stimulus.

I think now that we have a better sense of where the FED is heading, we're seeing obviously a more stable inflationary environment of slow and steady, and we're also looking at reduction of fiscal stimulus.

Where we're really going to see.

Where we're really going to see.

Productivity are obviously potentially from AI gains, But where we might see company profitability would more likely be within some of your small caps, as some of the larger caps are starting to face some headwinds, And from an investor standpoint, not only MA I'm looking at where companies might grow, where that profitability might come from, but also just where the value is because as we have had such big run ups from these high expectations of increased productivity within these megacaps, there really is a lot of money on the table from some of the small our companies. Some of the lesser known companies even within the s and P five hundred, where if they even if they just meet let's say, fifteen percent growth, they don't have to be twenty twenty five percent growth, but they're undervalued by twenty five percent compared to historical gains. Those are the companies that could do really well if we finally see some expansion of market breath.

Productivity are obviously potentially from AI gains, But where we might see company profitability would more likely be within some of your small caps, as some of the larger caps are starting to face some headwinds, And from an investor standpoint, not only MA I'm looking at where companies might grow, where that profitability might come from, but also just where the value is because as we have had such big run ups from these high expectations of increased productivity within these megacaps, there really is a lot of money on the table from some of the small our companies. Some of the lesser known companies even within the s and P five hundred, where if they even if they just meet let's say, fifteen percent growth, they don't have to be twenty twenty five percent growth, but they're undervalued by twenty five percent compared to historical gains. Those are the companies that could do really well if we finally see some expansion of market breath.

You really started to see Marcus largely shake off many of the risks we've seen out there.

You really started to see Marcus largely shake off many of the risks we've seen out there.

That was interest rate.

That was interest rate.

Risk, it was geopolitical risk. Yet we're sitting here at an SMP five hundred at your end, well above six thousand. Still, what are the risks you're looking at next year that could particularly throw investors off this more bullish course.

Risk, it was geopolitical risk. Yet we're sitting here at an SMP five hundred at your end, well above six thousand. Still, what are the risks you're looking at next year that could particularly throw investors off this more bullish course.

So two of two big issues I see.

So two of two big issues I see.

One is just a slowing global economy. We're seeing some major economies really facing some headwinds, so China, South Korea, Europe, and so those larger cap company is particularly multinational where they do have to worry about revenue risks, they do have to worry about dollar the dollar currencies. Those of the companies that might face more headwinds than some of the more domestic focused smaller companies.

One is just a slowing global economy. We're seeing some major economies really facing some headwinds, so China, South Korea, Europe, and so those larger cap company is particularly multinational where they do have to worry about revenue risks, they do have to worry about dollar the dollar currencies. Those of the companies that might face more headwinds than some of the more domestic focused smaller companies.

Another issue is just the reduction of fiscal stimulus.

Another issue is just the reduction of fiscal stimulus.

Is this really looks like from an economic standpoint, we're starting to hit that peak of the cycle and that the economy might slow down. So you need companies that are able to operate efficiently, that aren't so focused on the fiscal stimulus and can really drive from other organic revenue sources and more perhaps more domestically.

Is this really looks like from an economic standpoint, we're starting to hit that peak of the cycle and that the economy might slow down. So you need companies that are able to operate efficiently, that aren't so focused on the fiscal stimulus and can really drive from other organic revenue sources and more perhaps more domestically.

So those are the two big.

So those are the two big.

Headwind headwinds for those or lack of slowing fiscal stimulus and then slowing global external trade that might really potentially debrail some of the larger CAB companies next year.

Headwind headwinds for those or lack of slowing fiscal stimulus and then slowing global external trade that might really potentially debrail some of the larger CAB companies next year.

Yeah, Aaron, you say earnings may start to disappoint, does that up? And already in Q one of next year? After all, Jack Morgan is out January fifteenth, it's only a couple of weeks away.

Yeah, Aaron, you say earnings may start to disappoint, does that up? And already in Q one of next year? After all, Jack Morgan is out January fifteenth, it's only a couple of weeks away.

Yes, Well, we did have a rather a low beat rate for Q three already, and we know that analysts are obviously lowering some.

Yes, Well, we did have a rather a low beat rate for Q three already, and we know that analysts are obviously lowering some.

Of their expectations for Q four. Right now, Earning's expectations for next year are pretty darn optimistic.

Of their expectations for Q four. Right now, Earning's expectations for next year are pretty darn optimistic.

We're looking at fourteen percent growth for the S and P five hundred and twenty percent growth for the SMP small cap.

We're looking at fourteen percent growth for the S and P five hundred and twenty percent growth for the SMP small cap.

For earnings profit, those are some high numbers.

For earnings profit, those are some high numbers.

Whenever we're looking at mid teens to even twenties, they have often.

Whenever we're looking at mid teens to even twenties, they have often.

Been revised down. So we'll see. Obviously we have a lot to.

Been revised down. So we'll see. Obviously we have a lot to.

Be able to deal with next year, even though at least the FED part of that story seems to be more stable. But certainly I think people should be prepared for disappointment and when the stock market really is price per perfection, as we're seeing in many of the sectors right now, particularly within.

Be able to deal with next year, even though at least the FED part of that story seems to be more stable. But certainly I think people should be prepared for disappointment and when the stock market really is price per perfection, as we're seeing in many of the sectors right now, particularly within.

The large caps, not within the small caps, investors.

The large caps, not within the small caps, investors.

Should be very weary if we do see some weakening or some deterioration within the economy and within some of these industries.

Should be very weary if we do see some weakening or some deterioration within the economy and within some of these industries.

Where do you anticipate any weakening in the economy? Erin, we haven't seen any really at all this year.

Where do you anticipate any weakening in the economy? Erin, we haven't seen any really at all this year.

No, we've been very fortunate, and I, like I said, a lot of it has been through physical stimulus through dollar trade. I think if some of the tariffs come through that Trunk has promised, that could be a huge negative impact, particularly on materials, industrials, consumers, just a host of industries. And so that's something that I think investor should be very wary of and just remain up to date and be ready to switch if that changes, because that type of policy could have a significant impact on company's profitability for next year.

No, we've been very fortunate, and I, like I said, a lot of it has been through physical stimulus through dollar trade. I think if some of the tariffs come through that Trunk has promised, that could be a huge negative impact, particularly on materials, industrials, consumers, just a host of industries. And so that's something that I think investor should be very wary of and just remain up to date and be ready to switch if that changes, because that type of policy could have a significant impact on company's profitability for next year.

What do you think your favorite trades are to set up for the new dynamic under a new president.

What do you think your favorite trades are to set up for the new dynamic under a new president.

Yes, so one I would like to say again small apps, they're a little more insulated from tariffs. They might be again more domestically focused, less exposure to dollar and burrency trades.

Yes, so one I would like to say again small apps, they're a little more insulated from tariffs. They might be again more domestically focused, less exposure to dollar and burrency trades.

So that's one of my favorites.

So that's one of my favorites.

And again there's such a low value that just have less downside risk. On the other side, I do like some of the stable industrial sort of the growth at a reasonable price means like Honeywell, Caterpillar, nice stable earnings quality.

And again there's such a low value that just have less downside risk. On the other side, I do like some of the stable industrial sort of the growth at a reasonable price means like Honeywell, Caterpillar, nice stable earnings quality.

They can weather the storm, that can weather a.

They can weather the storm, that can weather a.

Few quarters of potential volatility and still beat expectations.

Few quarters of potential volatility and still beat expectations.

All right, erin thank you so much for joining us on this holiday week. That is Aaron Gibbs, chief investment officer at Main Street as a management joining us there. All right, that's move on now to another sticking point in Washington. One of President Biden's final acts in office will be deciding the fate of Nippon Steele's proposed acquisition of US Steel. A government panel.

All right, erin thank you so much for joining us on this holiday week. That is Aaron Gibbs, chief investment officer at Main Street as a management joining us there. All right, that's move on now to another sticking point in Washington. One of President Biden's final acts in office will be deciding the fate of Nippon Steele's proposed acquisition of US Steel. A government panel.

Deadlocked on the deal earlier this week.

Deadlocked on the deal earlier this week.

Well, this morning Nippon Steele delayed the closing date of the deal into twenty twenty five, joining us from Washington, DC. Now is John Harney, John, will Biden get this done and decided in the next you know, twenty thirty days? Does it have to be done or might it actually bleed into the next administration.

Well, this morning Nippon Steele delayed the closing date of the deal into twenty twenty five, joining us from Washington, DC. Now is John Harney, John, will Biden get this done and decided in the next you know, twenty thirty days? Does it have to be done or might it actually bleed into the next administration.

Well, he has fifteen days from Monday to say whether or not the deal should go forward. He is not you know, he has not said flatly he's going to kill it, but he has made plenty of indications that that will be his decision. The announcement today that the closing has been put off simply faces reality. They Nippon Steele has put off the closing before this as this huge twelve plus billion acquisition has become further ensnared in American politics in the election. It remains unlikely at this point that Donald Trump will have a say on killing the deal or not. But both companies say that if President Biden says no, they will go to court and then who knows where it will end.

Well, he has fifteen days from Monday to say whether or not the deal should go forward. He is not you know, he has not said flatly he's going to kill it, but he has made plenty of indications that that will be his decision. The announcement today that the closing has been put off simply faces reality. They Nippon Steele has put off the closing before this as this huge twelve plus billion acquisition has become further ensnared in American politics in the election. It remains unlikely at this point that Donald Trump will have a say on killing the deal or not. But both companies say that if President Biden says no, they will go to court and then who knows where it will end.

To that end what happens from here, because this, of course is a very politically sensitive deal has a lot to do in terms of how steel workers in America feel about foreign ownership, and a lot to do with how the Committee on Foreign Investment CIPIUS operates in relation to how they seek to block deals moving forward.

To that end what happens from here, because this, of course is a very politically sensitive deal has a lot to do in terms of how steel workers in America feel about foreign ownership, and a lot to do with how the Committee on Foreign Investment CIPIUS operates in relation to how they seek to block deals moving forward.

What does it say about areas.

What does it say about areas.

That are sensitive to the American to me as it comes to foreign for foreign investment.

That are sensitive to the American to me as it comes to foreign for foreign investment.

Well, all those realms, if you will, are important. Certainly, SITHIUS, by the way, deadlocked over whether or not the acquisition should go forward, leaving it, you know, leaving it to the White House, and that was a step that had to be taken. But also there's a there's an international there's also international relations. Japan is not an adversary like say China, but a very close ally Prime minister issue of Japan today urged President Biden to approve the deal. Now, whether or not he'll do that or not, you know, that's.

Well, all those realms, if you will, are important. Certainly, SITHIUS, by the way, deadlocked over whether or not the acquisition should go forward, leaving it, you know, leaving it to the White House, and that was a step that had to be taken. But also there's a there's an international there's also international relations. Japan is not an adversary like say China, but a very close ally Prime minister issue of Japan today urged President Biden to approve the deal. Now, whether or not he'll do that or not, you know, that's.

We'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens.

But but you're right in that this became a very political issue, as as as many other parts of American American business and culture have you know, many steel workers have this you know, you know, and other Americans have a strong you know, there's a strong history behind US Steel's an iconic American company, you know, but Upon Steel and US Steel say, there are many good reasons for this acquisition to go forward, apart from politics, apart from for lack of a better word, in nostalgia.

But but you're right in that this became a very political issue, as as as many other parts of American American business and culture have you know, many steel workers have this you know, you know, and other Americans have a strong you know, there's a strong history behind US Steel's an iconic American company, you know, but Upon Steel and US Steel say, there are many good reasons for this acquisition to go forward, apart from politics, apart from for lack of a better word, in nostalgia.

John, we have to leave it there. We thank you so much for joining us today. That is John Harney of Bloomberg New Jennifer Gregel, she's associated their associate professor of Communications in Syracuse University. For more on Musk, Trump and the future of social media under the new administration.

John, we have to leave it there. We thank you so much for joining us today. That is John Harney of Bloomberg New Jennifer Gregel, she's associated their associate professor of Communications in Syracuse University. For more on Musk, Trump and the future of social media under the new administration.

So we're looking at what the president elect might do moving forward. We're trying to read the tea leaves.

So we're looking at what the president elect might do moving forward. We're trying to read the tea leaves.

How do you think social media is going to play a role in the upcoming in the upcoming world, I mean, how do you think they are going to really use Musk platforms relative to some of the other more established ones you've seen out there.

How do you think social media is going to play a role in the upcoming in the upcoming world, I mean, how do you think they are going to really use Musk platforms relative to some of the other more established ones you've seen out there.

Yeah, I love, Well, maybe a little context because I know, over the last four years, you know, I've kind of been sitting back a little bit more and watching this all play out, and I know Musk is the person of the moment, and we're throwing around these like sophisticated terms like retail investors, you know, but like it's really about the public. Sometimes the market's trying to make sense of what's going on. And for me, the one piece that I've seen lacking in the media over the last four years and especially this past year, is any critique of really the Biden administration and how they've handled not just like their leverage over social media, but even this upcoming potential TikTok.

Yeah, I love, Well, maybe a little context because I know, over the last four years, you know, I've kind of been sitting back a little bit more and watching this all play out, and I know Musk is the person of the moment, and we're throwing around these like sophisticated terms like retail investors, you know, but like it's really about the public. Sometimes the market's trying to make sense of what's going on. And for me, the one piece that I've seen lacking in the media over the last four years and especially this past year, is any critique of really the Biden administration and how they've handled not just like their leverage over social media, but even this upcoming potential TikTok.

Band that's looming and now it's going to.

Band that's looming and now it's going to.

The Supreme Court, and I know you're just talking about meme stocks and also bitcoin, like you know, like it or not. President Trump is coming to power next year, and he has an incredible amount of leverage ability to cut deals, not just with TikTok, but any of those competitors. So, you know, again circling back to Facebook, you know, it's no surprise that you know, kind of late in the last election you saw like Mark Zuckerberg, you know, kind of maybe you know, kind of posing up a little bit more. And I think it's because we were missing that context. I know, for me, it was really difficult to cut through at times and to provide that critique. But I'm not sure the markets or the public have really heard enough critique going into this. It's it's been really focused on Musk and obviously he has the president's ear, you know again, I know there's jokes about him being the unelected president. Of course he's incredibly rich and he has Twitter, but he has again he has made that work for him. So for me, I think we just need a little bit more history and looking into you know, those who were in power. They I think they they had a lot of confidence going into this that Biden would continue and then they pass laws like that too. So I think it's going to be actually unsettling to some of those those larger social media companies. I'm not sure, you know again their future is so sure and that we should only be talking about TikTok for example.

The Supreme Court, and I know you're just talking about meme stocks and also bitcoin, like you know, like it or not. President Trump is coming to power next year, and he has an incredible amount of leverage ability to cut deals, not just with TikTok, but any of those competitors. So, you know, again circling back to Facebook, you know, it's no surprise that you know, kind of late in the last election you saw like Mark Zuckerberg, you know, kind of maybe you know, kind of posing up a little bit more. And I think it's because we were missing that context. I know, for me, it was really difficult to cut through at times and to provide that critique. But I'm not sure the markets or the public have really heard enough critique going into this. It's it's been really focused on Musk and obviously he has the president's ear, you know again, I know there's jokes about him being the unelected president. Of course he's incredibly rich and he has Twitter, but he has again he has made that work for him. So for me, I think we just need a little bit more history and looking into you know, those who were in power. They I think they they had a lot of confidence going into this that Biden would continue and then they pass laws like that too. So I think it's going to be actually unsettling to some of those those larger social media companies. I'm not sure, you know again their future is so sure and that we should only be talking about TikTok for example.

Yeah, Jennifer, I mean, what would Donald Trump like to do? Because on the one hand, he needs leverage with the country like China, especially if he's going to be imposing extra tariffs and so on, and this seems sort of like a you know, easy pickings if you.

Yeah, Jennifer, I mean, what would Donald Trump like to do? Because on the one hand, he needs leverage with the country like China, especially if he's going to be imposing extra tariffs and so on, and this seems sort of like a you know, easy pickings if you.

Like, it's exactly, and he's got easy pickings with bitcoin, you know, do you make a.

Like, it's exactly, and he's got easy pickings with bitcoin, you know, do you make a.

Reserve or don't you?

Reserve or don't you?

Right?

Right?

So he man, he has so many levers going into this next term, right, So I think when we think about you know, it's taking some notes looking at the last section, this is not a moment of clarity, like we do not have confidence, we don't have certainty, and I think I think the markets are reacting to that more than.

So he man, he has so many levers going into this next term, right, So I think when we think about you know, it's taking some notes looking at the last section, this is not a moment of clarity, like we do not have confidence, we don't have certainty, and I think I think the markets are reacting to that more than.

Just this fed you know, announcement.

Just this fed you know, announcement.

Obviously we saw a major market moment there, but I see uncertainty coming into the end of the year, not just because it's the end of the year, but because we really.

Obviously we saw a major market moment there, but I see uncertainty coming into the end of the year, not just because it's the end of the year, but because we really.

Don't know how President Trump is going to play his cards. We just know that he has a lot in his hand.

Don't know how President Trump is going to play his cards. We just know that he has a lot in his hand.

And Jennifer, all these tech executives that are visiting mar Alago and you know, digging deep for their million dollars or whatever it's costing them. Well, in these US executives, I mean, in particular, what will that buy them?

And Jennifer, all these tech executives that are visiting mar Alago and you know, digging deep for their million dollars or whatever it's costing them. Well, in these US executives, I mean, in particular, what will that buy them?

Yeah, Well, that was what was interesting about the TikTok case was that they went to extraordinary lengths to legislate the carve out TikTok. Otherwise it would have looked just like every other platform, you know, Facebook would have been in the same situation.

Yeah, Well, that was what was interesting about the TikTok case was that they went to extraordinary lengths to legislate the carve out TikTok. Otherwise it would have looked just like every other platform, you know, Facebook would have been in the same situation.

And that was kind of what I think.

And that was kind of what I think.

Gave TikTok comfort for a while. I think going into this legislative path was incredibly risky. It is a huge threat to freedom of information, freedom of expression. Unfortunately, you know again that even the expiration day, it was.

Gave TikTok comfort for a while. I think going into this legislative path was incredibly risky. It is a huge threat to freedom of information, freedom of expression. Unfortunately, you know again that even the expiration day, it was.

Right in front of the next term.

Right in front of the next term.

It was I believe it just an incredibly dangerous piece of legislation to target.

It was I believe it just an incredibly dangerous piece of legislation to target.

One platform like that. It doesn't matter.

One platform like that. It doesn't matter.

If it was an external kind of foreign actor or whatever the reasoning was. It's it was very, very targeted. And the timing, you know, would have given the Biden administration some leverage not only with TikTok, but with maybe the sitting platforms going into.

If it was an external kind of foreign actor or whatever the reasoning was. It's it was very, very targeted. And the timing, you know, would have given the Biden administration some leverage not only with TikTok, but with maybe the sitting platforms going into.

The last election. They could have maybe you know again.

The last election. They could have maybe you know again.

Struck as some type of sweetheart deal with Facebook. So it's it's really, you know, again, we have to look at the timing of all that that was passed in April last year, March. You know, we knew in March Trump was taking the helm at the RNC.

Struck as some type of sweetheart deal with Facebook. So it's it's really, you know, again, we have to look at the timing of all that that was passed in April last year, March. You know, we knew in March Trump was taking the helm at the RNC.

Again, I just I.

Again, I just I.

Don't like it. I don't like it.

Don't like it. I don't like it.

You know, you look at how TikTok has been treated by lawmakers, and you've seen both parties really voice their concerns. At the end of the day, do you think that whether or not there is a full on band that is pursued in the early days of Trump administration, or a wholesale sale of the platform, does that pressure really go away?

You know, you look at how TikTok has been treated by lawmakers, and you've seen both parties really voice their concerns. At the end of the day, do you think that whether or not there is a full on band that is pursued in the early days of Trump administration, or a wholesale sale of the platform, does that pressure really go away?

Well, and great point.

Well, and great point.

Again, I'm just trying to sneak into a tiny piece of critique on Biden here because we really haven't seen it.

Again, I'm just trying to sneak into a tiny piece of critique on Biden here because we really haven't seen it.

I mean, that's just.

I mean, that's just.

That's that's been my experience in the last four years. I haven't seen much in the media. But as you point out, it was like bipartisan to get that through. But that again is something that is telling. I think that on both sides of the aisle that President Trump was a threat, you know, and that it wasn't just Biden per se, but it was all of the incumbent And we saw this actually way back and this reminds me, honestly in twenty twelve when we saw under the Obama runner they instituted the modernization of what was called the Smithmont Act. And you know, again, Trump was starting to make waves at that time, starting to maybe put his hat in the presidential rank, and the incumbents were bipartisans.

That's that's been my experience in the last four years. I haven't seen much in the media. But as you point out, it was like bipartisan to get that through. But that again is something that is telling. I think that on both sides of the aisle that President Trump was a threat, you know, and that it wasn't just Biden per se, but it was all of the incumbent And we saw this actually way back and this reminds me, honestly in twenty twelve when we saw under the Obama runner they instituted the modernization of what was called the Smithmont Act. And you know, again, Trump was starting to make waves at that time, starting to maybe put his hat in the presidential rank, and the incumbents were bipartisans.

It's again, it's a little bit of.

It's again, it's a little bit of.

A gatekeeping action from those who are currently in Congress in the White House saying hey, we don't want this out outsider maybe coming in.

A gatekeeping action from those who are currently in Congress in the White House saying hey, we don't want this out outsider maybe coming in.

You know.

You know.

So it spoke to maybe the political climate of those who were sitting in power to that maybe maybe they were trying to gate keep a little bit. But I just believe that it gave an incredible amount of leverage to any incumbent at that time.

So it spoke to maybe the political climate of those who were sitting in power to that maybe maybe they were trying to gate keep a little bit. But I just believe that it gave an incredible amount of leverage to any incumbent at that time.

Jennifer much That is Jennifer Greegel. They are associate professor at Syracuse University. Once again, Jennifer Gregel joining us there.

Jennifer much That is Jennifer Greegel. They are associate professor at Syracuse University. Once again, Jennifer Gregel joining us there.

And you asked, retail sales this holiday season rose three point eight percent compared to last year. That's according to data from MasterCards spending polls, showing that consumers were more willing to spend in store and online if promotions were there. And it's exactly the type of momentum that brands like True Classic are hoping to bank on. The men's wear brand is expanding its business across the United States. It's partnering with Target. Joining us now is the CEO of True Classic.

And you asked, retail sales this holiday season rose three point eight percent compared to last year. That's according to data from MasterCards spending polls, showing that consumers were more willing to spend in store and online if promotions were there. And it's exactly the type of momentum that brands like True Classic are hoping to bank on. The men's wear brand is expanding its business across the United States. It's partnering with Target. Joining us now is the CEO of True Classic.

Ben Yeah, Yahalom.

Ben Yeah, Yahalom.

And you know, Funnie and I were talking about this men'sware where do people like to traditionally buy. It's interesting that you've partnered with Target more recently. But are they going into the store, They're going online.

And you know, Funnie and I were talking about this men'sware where do people like to traditionally buy. It's interesting that you've partnered with Target more recently. But are they going into the store, They're going online.

To do it.

To do it.

I would say very similar.

I would say very similar.

Tobou Oliver shared that the decompenetration is being rising over the past few years, but only in It's still very much the case that the majority of clothing is being purchased in a physical retlocation, namely over sixty percent.

Tobou Oliver shared that the decompenetration is being rising over the past few years, but only in It's still very much the case that the majority of clothing is being purchased in a physical retlocation, namely over sixty percent.

How did you get to five hundred million in revenue in just four and a half years a new brand? You know, I mean nothing in its background to prove itself. So how did it happen?

How did you get to five hundred million in revenue in just four and a half years a new brand? You know, I mean nothing in its background to prove itself. So how did it happen?

It's a fascinating story.

It's a fascinating story.

We pride ourselves on focusing on people and we want to make sure that they.

We pride ourselves on focusing on people and we want to make sure that they.

Look Yeah, but you know when everybody says that, they all say it's always about the people, and the people are special on Our customers deserve the best, But how do you actually prove that? How what are you giving to the people that they were asking for and weren't.

Look Yeah, but you know when everybody says that, they all say it's always about the people, and the people are special on Our customers deserve the best, But how do you actually prove that? How what are you giving to the people that they were asking for and weren't.

Getting great product, great service, great price point, great marketing product. We really nailed it with a perfectly fitted shirt that feels great, offered it a good price point, They love wearing it. They vote with their dollars From a marketing standpoint, we do amazing ads that truly engage with our customers, tell them why they should care about us, how it's going to make them feel, feel a sense of confidence, feel a sense of self esteem, and they love that. And from a price standpoint, we offer them a premium clothing option for a fraction of the price of alternatives out there. And everybody loves a good value and we like delivering that consumer surplus. From a distribution standpoint, we've done everything online on the main first few years and now we're moving on to retail. So early days it's been very much direct to consumer and now we're on this path towards an omni channel global brand.

Getting great product, great service, great price point, great marketing product. We really nailed it with a perfectly fitted shirt that feels great, offered it a good price point, They love wearing it. They vote with their dollars From a marketing standpoint, we do amazing ads that truly engage with our customers, tell them why they should care about us, how it's going to make them feel, feel a sense of confidence, feel a sense of self esteem, and they love that. And from a price standpoint, we offer them a premium clothing option for a fraction of the price of alternatives out there. And everybody loves a good value and we like delivering that consumer surplus. From a distribution standpoint, we've done everything online on the main first few years and now we're moving on to retail. So early days it's been very much direct to consumer and now we're on this path towards an omni channel global brand.

So who is your customer, what agency? How much does he make and how tall is he?

So who is your customer, what agency? How much does he make and how tall is he?

Okay, variety of customers.

Okay, variety of customers.

I would say the core one is a thirty four to fifty four years old man. HHI over one hundred million dollars one hundred thousand dollars a year across the United States, majority in California and Texas and New York. But now we have expanded internationally, so we have customers across different heights. We do have a decent number of customers in the United States, over twenty seven percent were pretty tall north of six feet two inches and all in it's not just him, but also her who buys for him, and she buys for her dad, she buys for her husband, she buys for her son, and she is a very important customer to us as well.

I would say the core one is a thirty four to fifty four years old man. HHI over one hundred million dollars one hundred thousand dollars a year across the United States, majority in California and Texas and New York. But now we have expanded internationally, so we have customers across different heights. We do have a decent number of customers in the United States, over twenty seven percent were pretty tall north of six feet two inches and all in it's not just him, but also her who buys for him, and she buys for her dad, she buys for her husband, she buys for her son, and she is a very important customer to us as well.

When you look at your website right now, the few things that are on at the top of the site number one most like Staple six pack T shirt. It was almost one hundred eighty dollars for the pack, but you can buy it now for under one hundred. Same for the classic three pack. It's marked down from ninety bucks for the three pack to less than sixty dollars. Are these really just holiday promotional draw downs or are you finding a consumer that is quite concerning?

When you look at your website right now, the few things that are on at the top of the site number one most like Staple six pack T shirt. It was almost one hundred eighty dollars for the pack, but you can buy it now for under one hundred. Same for the classic three pack. It's marked down from ninety bucks for the three pack to less than sixty dollars. Are these really just holiday promotional draw downs or are you finding a consumer that is quite concerning?

Do you need to keep discounting into the new year?

Do you need to keep discounting into the new year?

Yeah, those are our pack discounts.

Yeah, those are our pack discounts.

So if you were to buy those items individually, those would actually retail for twenty nine ninety nine a shirt. But when you buy them in a pack, we benefit from stronger unit economics and we're happily providing those benefits over to the customer. So those are meant to incentivize consumers who are willing to buy in bulk to do so, and therefore benefit from a steeper promotion and a steeper discount.

So if you were to buy those items individually, those would actually retail for twenty nine ninety nine a shirt. But when you buy them in a pack, we benefit from stronger unit economics and we're happily providing those benefits over to the customer. So those are meant to incentivize consumers who are willing to buy in bulk to do so, and therefore benefit from a steeper promotion and a steeper discount.

How often are you finding people take advantage of those discounts right now? Because you mentioned pricing was one of your competitive advantages.

How often are you finding people take advantage of those discounts right now? Because you mentioned pricing was one of your competitive advantages.

Is it because you're able to.

Is it because you're able to.

Benefit from those unit economics or are you finding that there's an optimal price for a T shirt right now?

Benefit from those unit economics or are you finding that there's an optimal price for a T shirt right now?

I don't know if there is an optimal price for a T shirt, but I would say that the American consumer, and I would say probably globally as well, are tired of overpaying for premium goods and they are looking for options that don't compromise quality but offer that to them at a reasonable price point.

I don't know if there is an optimal price for a T shirt, but I would say that the American consumer, and I would say probably globally as well, are tired of overpaying for premium goods and they are looking for options that don't compromise quality but offer that to them at a reasonable price point.

And that's exactly the area we play in.

And that's exactly the area we play in.

So talk to us about margins. Where you make most of your clothing specifically, I don't mean where you put the tag on, I mean where the actual product gets mostly made, And how concerned are you for next year? In Taros.

So talk to us about margins. Where you make most of your clothing specifically, I don't mean where you put the tag on, I mean where the actual product gets mostly made, And how concerned are you for next year? In Taros.

We have been already prepared for that for quite some time with the tension between the US and China, and we used to be primarily sourcing our products from China, but we've diversified away and in this point, we're pretty well diversified. We manufacture in Cambodia and Vietnam, in Egypt and Turkey and Mexico, and we have the ability to shift our supply chains to different vendors, different manufacturers worldwide to ensure that we are not in any particular pickle with tariffs, duties or even importation issues like we just had last week with a pretty big gift from the Mexican government to overnight just decided that we're not allowed to import more goods over there, which is significantly impacting many eCOM brands like ourselves, but we have good options to mitigate against that.

We have been already prepared for that for quite some time with the tension between the US and China, and we used to be primarily sourcing our products from China, but we've diversified away and in this point, we're pretty well diversified. We manufacture in Cambodia and Vietnam, in Egypt and Turkey and Mexico, and we have the ability to shift our supply chains to different vendors, different manufacturers worldwide to ensure that we are not in any particular pickle with tariffs, duties or even importation issues like we just had last week with a pretty big gift from the Mexican government to overnight just decided that we're not allowed to import more goods over there, which is significantly impacting many eCOM brands like ourselves, but we have good options to mitigate against that.

So, Ben, what is the secret? Because you've been also at Meta and you've helped the hyper growth of other companies your four years at Meta, and you know you know how to leverage Facebook and Instagram marketing strategy, and it seems that those are the strategies that work best these days. You know, consumers, whether it's women or men, seem to be getting targeted more on those platforms. Is that the success to True Classics so far is that you've been able to do that? And if so, what advice would you give other brands? Yeah?

So, Ben, what is the secret? Because you've been also at Meta and you've helped the hyper growth of other companies your four years at Meta, and you know you know how to leverage Facebook and Instagram marketing strategy, and it seems that those are the strategies that work best these days. You know, consumers, whether it's women or men, seem to be getting targeted more on those platforms. Is that the success to True Classics so far is that you've been able to do that? And if so, what advice would you give other brands? Yeah?

I would say that those platforms are definitely the main ones Meta, Google, et cetera. To get the brand off the ground these days, with relatively limited resources for us, we were able to bootrap this company to your point, no X factors, no celebrities, no big VC money, and grow it north of nine figures in two short years and do so profitably on the back of digital advertising. So yes, highly recommend for any brand who is trying to get off the ground to invest in really understanding how to leverage those platforms to their advantage.

I would say that those platforms are definitely the main ones Meta, Google, et cetera. To get the brand off the ground these days, with relatively limited resources for us, we were able to bootrap this company to your point, no X factors, no celebrities, no big VC money, and grow it north of nine figures in two short years and do so profitably on the back of digital advertising. So yes, highly recommend for any brand who is trying to get off the ground to invest in really understanding how to leverage those platforms to their advantage.

But it's not magic.

But it's not magic.

You have to have a great product, you have to have a great service, and you have to ultimately find that product market fit with that advertising model baked into your business model. And when we did that, and we are not just advertising the product, we're telling great stories. We're connecting with humans on an emotional level. We explain to them what is the benefit of our products, how they're going to fill in our product, not just what is the product, and that makes a huge difference. So for us, creative content, storytelling, excellent customer service, exceptional quality in our products are all pillars of ultimately finding that product market fit and fast growth.

You have to have a great product, you have to have a great service, and you have to ultimately find that product market fit with that advertising model baked into your business model. And when we did that, and we are not just advertising the product, we're telling great stories. We're connecting with humans on an emotional level. We explain to them what is the benefit of our products, how they're going to fill in our product, not just what is the product, and that makes a huge difference. So for us, creative content, storytelling, excellent customer service, exceptional quality in our products are all pillars of ultimately finding that product market fit and fast growth.

So when you think about all of those social media platforms, and by the way, I'm a total sucker for buying on those platforms.

So when you think about all of those social media platforms, and by the way, I'm a total sucker for buying on those platforms.

So I know what you mean, but we all are.

So I know what you mean, but we all are.

How do you kind of kick through the noise, because of course there are a lot of people selling on Instagram and on TikTok, So how do you get your story through without As you were talking about those celebrity names, for example, attaching to the brand.

How do you kind of kick through the noise, because of course there are a lot of people selling on Instagram and on TikTok, So how do you get your story through without As you were talking about those celebrity names, for example, attaching to the brand.

I think it all goes back to storytelling and if you really zoom out and look at that, what gets you is someone who's able to hit the nail on the head, whether it's a motivator or a barrier to start a journey with a new company or buy a particular product. So for us, it's always been, for example, like really illustrating very well the fit and the feel and how that shirt is going to look on you when you try it on, and do so in an authentic way with influencers and customers who tell those stories.

I think it all goes back to storytelling and if you really zoom out and look at that, what gets you is someone who's able to hit the nail on the head, whether it's a motivator or a barrier to start a journey with a new company or buy a particular product. So for us, it's always been, for example, like really illustrating very well the fit and the feel and how that shirt is going to look on you when you try it on, and do so in an authentic way with influencers and customers who tell those stories.

Better than we can.

Better than we can.

And with that, people actually pay attention and they want to give it a try. And when they come to our site and they see over two hundred thousand and five star reviews, when they see that growing community of almost five million people worldwide, and how much they rave about it they want to try it, especially when the price tag is not particularly high. So you have got to kind of figure out a way to your point like stand out and differentiate yourself. And I would say on the media side, it's absolutely about storytelling and then from a product and offer standpoint, that's where your website has to shine.

And with that, people actually pay attention and they want to give it a try. And when they come to our site and they see over two hundred thousand and five star reviews, when they see that growing community of almost five million people worldwide, and how much they rave about it they want to try it, especially when the price tag is not particularly high. So you have got to kind of figure out a way to your point like stand out and differentiate yourself. And I would say on the media side, it's absolutely about storytelling and then from a product and offer standpoint, that's where your website has to shine.

How much does philanthropy matter because you donate T shirts to homeless veterans shelter schools each month? Is that a big part of the story for you and what people are attaching.

How much does philanthropy matter because you donate T shirts to homeless veterans shelter schools each month? Is that a big part of the story for you and what people are attaching.

To incredibly important.

To incredibly important.

But what I would say for us in particular is that we're actually not if you will, like advertising and particularly forefront about that. We do that because we want to empower people to look good and feel good, and we genuinely want to do so, not just with the clothing we sell, but also in ways where we can do great clothing to people in need. And most recently around the holidays, we donated almost ten million dollars worth of retail value of inventory to many people around LA who needed those clothes for the holiday season. So I would say it's important for us as humans, because we believe in showing up to humans and in giving back. But I wouldn't say it's a core pillar of the story of the brand and how we've been showing up. I would say that still to this date, probably many people amongst our customers don't even understand or know the extent to which our film tropic efforts have gone, and that's something we should probably do a better job articulating to them. But I would say it's important to us as humans.

But what I would say for us in particular is that we're actually not if you will, like advertising and particularly forefront about that. We do that because we want to empower people to look good and feel good, and we genuinely want to do so, not just with the clothing we sell, but also in ways where we can do great clothing to people in need. And most recently around the holidays, we donated almost ten million dollars worth of retail value of inventory to many people around LA who needed those clothes for the holiday season. So I would say it's important for us as humans, because we believe in showing up to humans and in giving back. But I wouldn't say it's a core pillar of the story of the brand and how we've been showing up. I would say that still to this date, probably many people amongst our customers don't even understand or know the extent to which our film tropic efforts have gone, and that's something we should probably do a better job articulating to them. But I would say it's important to us as humans.

Ben, thank you so much for joining at all the very best your partnership with Target Expanding, and that has been yahalo on. They're true classic CEO

Ben, thank you so much for joining at all the very best your partnership with Target Expanding, and that has been yahalo on. They're true classic CEO