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This is Bloomberg Business Week Insight from the reporters and editors that bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenovek On Bloomberg.

This is Bloomberg Business Week Insight from the reporters and editors that bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenovek On Bloomberg.

Radio Carol Master along with Matt Miller. Hey, we did get another inflation print this morning. US wholesale inflation for the month of February stagnating thanks to a sharp decline in trade margins. We wanted to get into that with our own Michael McKey, Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy correspondent. It is our second read on US inflation, so Mike's second one on inflation. I don't know, how do you put this together with the CPI report today and is this kind of what the Fed is looking for?

Radio Carol Master along with Matt Miller. Hey, we did get another inflation print this morning. US wholesale inflation for the month of February stagnating thanks to a sharp decline in trade margins. We wanted to get into that with our own Michael McKey, Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy correspondent. It is our second read on US inflation, so Mike's second one on inflation. I don't know, how do you put this together with the CPI report today and is this kind of what the Fed is looking for?

Well, this was a little bit better in terms of the overall numbers for the Fed. However, you said the decline of the flatness was thanks to the trade numbers in there. Don't refer to international trade. It refers to the margins for wholesalers and retailers and if their margins are going down, that's not good for profits, and Matt was talking when we were off the air about profit analysts marking down profit forecast. So that's a little bit of bad news in there. Other than that, the parts of the PPI that get folded into the PCE, which is the Fed inflation indicator, we're stronger in most cases than anticipated. So it looks like between the CPI and the PPI, PCE is actually going to rise this month.

Well, this was a little bit better in terms of the overall numbers for the Fed. However, you said the decline of the flatness was thanks to the trade numbers in there. Don't refer to international trade. It refers to the margins for wholesalers and retailers and if their margins are going down, that's not good for profits, and Matt was talking when we were off the air about profit analysts marking down profit forecast. So that's a little bit of bad news in there. Other than that, the parts of the PPI that get folded into the PCE, which is the Fed inflation indicator, we're stronger in most cases than anticipated. So it looks like between the CPI and the PPI, PCE is actually going to rise this month.

This is what I think is fascinating because I've been noticing lately that you and other economists, when you get CPI and PPI, you can start to put together the pp PCE number, and that's what the Fed cares about, right, And last time we saw it was much weaker. But now this seems to be showing that maybe the prices will firm up in the PCE.

This is what I think is fascinating because I've been noticing lately that you and other economists, when you get CPI and PPI, you can start to put together the pp PCE number, and that's what the Fed cares about, right, And last time we saw it was much weaker. But now this seems to be showing that maybe the prices will firm up in the PCE.

Yes, not that much, maybe fifty basis points not a huge rise. But what it does is tell the Fed they have more work to do, and it ratifies if doesn't necessarily encourage them to keep rates at unchanged. Now we know they're not going to change rates next week, but this just gives a more runway to say, we don't know what's going on in the economy, So let's just sit here and inflation gives us the reason.

Yes, not that much, maybe fifty basis points not a huge rise. But what it does is tell the Fed they have more work to do, and it ratifies if doesn't necessarily encourage them to keep rates at unchanged. Now we know they're not going to change rates next week, but this just gives a more runway to say, we don't know what's going on in the economy, So let's just sit here and inflation gives us the reason.

What do we need to know about the weekly jabas claims number?

What do we need to know about the weekly jabas claims number?

Jobs claims is still a surprise that it stays so low. A lot of talk about the economy maybe slowing down, but we're not seeing any evidence in terms of layoffs. Federal initial claims went up, but not even as much as last week, so we're not getting a clean read on that yet and it'll be a while until we do, probably because of the back and forth on whether you're fired or not if you work for the federal government. But the number you want to watch, and we'll be putting this out on Bloomberg a lot over the coming weeks, is the continuing claims for federal workers, because that'll be the adding them all up and we'll get a better idea we did we did. Don't have any idea right now exactly how many people have been fired or let go.

Jobs claims is still a surprise that it stays so low. A lot of talk about the economy maybe slowing down, but we're not seeing any evidence in terms of layoffs. Federal initial claims went up, but not even as much as last week, so we're not getting a clean read on that yet and it'll be a while until we do, probably because of the back and forth on whether you're fired or not if you work for the federal government. But the number you want to watch, and we'll be putting this out on Bloomberg a lot over the coming weeks, is the continuing claims for federal workers, because that'll be the adding them all up and we'll get a better idea we did we did. Don't have any idea right now exactly how many people have been fired or let go.

Yeah, I thought it was interesting when we were talking this morning. Mike was on my television show Bluebet Open Interest every day from nine to eleven, and.

Yeah, I thought it was interesting when we were talking this morning. Mike was on my television show Bluebet Open Interest every day from nine to eleven, and.

The greatest show.

The greatest show.

It's the best show in the history of telling Nobody's made a better show. In fact, not that we were talking about whether or not this economy really belongs to President Trump or whether or not we're still seeing the after effects of the Biden economy.

It's the best show in the history of telling Nobody's made a better show. In fact, not that we were talking about whether or not this economy really belongs to President Trump or whether or not we're still seeing the after effects of the Biden economy.

I guess that's debatable.

I guess that's debatable.

But it seems to me that you will start to see the inflation from the trade concerns come in in the next slew of reports, or that you'll start to see the effects of the federal government firings in the next slew of reports.

But it seems to me that you will start to see the inflation from the trade concerns come in in the next slew of reports, or that you'll start to see the effects of the federal government firings in the next slew of reports.

Is that right.

Is that right.

It'll take a little while for all these numbers to get in there, especially the inflation ones that go through middleman, like you know, the steel and aluminum tariffs. Now, in this month's PPI, we saw prices rise a lot for steel and for aluminum, and it clearly the companies were anticipating these tariffs and raised prices ahead of it. So we may see that, but then you know, the stuff gets used and put into other things, uh, cars being a big example, and it'll take a while for prices to go up because of that, and or motorcycles people have, or motorcycles people have in this month, and yeah, they use a lot of steel.

It'll take a little while for all these numbers to get in there, especially the inflation ones that go through middleman, like you know, the steel and aluminum tariffs. Now, in this month's PPI, we saw prices rise a lot for steel and for aluminum, and it clearly the companies were anticipating these tariffs and raised prices ahead of it. So we may see that, but then you know, the stuff gets used and put into other things, uh, cars being a big example, and it'll take a while for prices to go up because of that, and or motorcycles people have, or motorcycles people have in this month, and yeah, they use a lot of steel.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yet you could say we'll notice it in a while, it doesn't really matter whose economy it was.

So yet you could say we'll notice it in a while, it doesn't really matter whose economy it was.

It's funny the administration has been saying.

It's funny the administration has been saying.

This is Biden's economy, except yesterday and today when inflation was lower, and they said, oh, CPI PPI, this is Trump's academy. But it's the voters who make.

This is Biden's economy, except yesterday and today when inflation was lower, and they said, oh, CPI PPI, this is Trump's academy. But it's the voters who make.

The decision really quickly twenty seconds. Do the tariffs have to roll back in order for there to be a strong US economy later this year? With the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik seemed to say to Bloomberg surveillance this morning, do we have to see the tariffs roll back though in order to get there?

The decision really quickly twenty seconds. Do the tariffs have to roll back in order for there to be a strong US economy later this year? With the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik seemed to say to Bloomberg surveillance this morning, do we have to see the tariffs roll back though in order to get there?

I would guess so, But we don't know what the tariffs are going to be yet exactly, so it's hard to make a definitive prediction.

I would guess so, But we don't know what the tariffs are going to be yet exactly, so it's hard to make a definitive prediction.

All right, good stuff, Mike, Thank you so much. Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy Correspondent Michael McKee.

All right, good stuff, Mike, Thank you so much. Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy Correspondent Michael McKee.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch US live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch US Live on YouTube.

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President Trump's trade war chaos has led to growing calls to lock in profits sit on the sidelines, replacing the buy the mentality that dominated Wall Street for decades, and despite some attempts to snap up discounted stocks, S and P five hundred hasn't noted two consecutive days of gains since its February peak, and market watchers say they do not see signs of a meaningful rebound rally yet, which can definitely make it tricky for someone who has more than a billion dollars in assets under management, which is the case of our next guest. Let's add to you Scottsdale, Arizona, and to Brian Vendig, chief investment officer at MJP Wealth Advisors. As we mentioned they have exactly are around one point two billion in assets under management.

President Trump's trade war chaos has led to growing calls to lock in profits sit on the sidelines, replacing the buy the mentality that dominated Wall Street for decades, and despite some attempts to snap up discounted stocks, S and P five hundred hasn't noted two consecutive days of gains since its February peak, and market watchers say they do not see signs of a meaningful rebound rally yet, which can definitely make it tricky for someone who has more than a billion dollars in assets under management, which is the case of our next guest. Let's add to you Scottsdale, Arizona, and to Brian Vendig, chief investment officer at MJP Wealth Advisors. As we mentioned they have exactly are around one point two billion in assets under management.

Brian, good to have you here.

Brian, good to have you here.

S and P.

S and P.

Continuing to flirt around correction territory. Curious about your clients. Have they been reaching out over the last couple of weeks as stocks have sold off?

Continuing to flirt around correction territory. Curious about your clients. Have they been reaching out over the last couple of weeks as stocks have sold off?

Hey, Carol, great to speak with you again.

Hey, Carol, great to speak with you again.

Yes, I mean the outreach from clients has been intense, and I think that intensity has picked up over the last couple of weeks. And look at the end of the day from an investor's point of view, not having that certainty to know how the extent of these policies decisions might go on varying degrees. Here, plus hearing that economists are talking about stagflation recession concerns, and couple that with outlooks changing for S and P five hundred growth this year and revisions to us GDP Carol. People need guidance, People need clarity to know what is the extent of this correction. And I will just say that the setup was there for some volatility going into this year as well. This is not necessarily all just policy driven. I think there's some fundamental valuation concerns about different parts of the market, because when you look under the hood, you see that there is a rotation going on between growth and value, and I think that has a lot to do with how much investors want to pay for growth right now.

Yes, I mean the outreach from clients has been intense, and I think that intensity has picked up over the last couple of weeks. And look at the end of the day from an investor's point of view, not having that certainty to know how the extent of these policies decisions might go on varying degrees. Here, plus hearing that economists are talking about stagflation recession concerns, and couple that with outlooks changing for S and P five hundred growth this year and revisions to us GDP Carol. People need guidance, People need clarity to know what is the extent of this correction. And I will just say that the setup was there for some volatility going into this year as well. This is not necessarily all just policy driven. I think there's some fundamental valuation concerns about different parts of the market, because when you look under the hood, you see that there is a rotation going on between growth and value, and I think that has a lot to do with how much investors want to pay for growth right now.

Well, and the tech earnings may not be exactly what we expected. It's not unusual, right I was looking at the queues last year and we had a summer swoon that was I think a discount of thirteen or fourteen percent in July to August on the Nasdaq one hundred. But the concern is is you don't get the fourteen percent growth everyone was expecting this year because you just don't have to pay as much to make a deep seek AI model work.

Well, and the tech earnings may not be exactly what we expected. It's not unusual, right I was looking at the queues last year and we had a summer swoon that was I think a discount of thirteen or fourteen percent in July to August on the Nasdaq one hundred. But the concern is is you don't get the fourteen percent growth everyone was expecting this year because you just don't have to pay as much to make a deep seek AI model work.

No, that's fair, Matt.

No, that's fair, Matt.

I mean I think when you look at the quality of earnings over the last couple of years, I mean, the outlooks for this year was that tech would grow about somewhere between sixteen to twenty percent on average, and you'd get a bigger push from earnings coming from areas outside of tech, which we've talked about with our clients and investors and still believe that that's going to be one of the main themes over the.

I mean I think when you look at the quality of earnings over the last couple of years, I mean, the outlooks for this year was that tech would grow about somewhere between sixteen to twenty percent on average, and you'd get a bigger push from earnings coming from areas outside of tech, which we've talked about with our clients and investors and still believe that that's going to be one of the main themes over the.

Balance of the year.

Balance of the year.

But I think to your point, the reaction of Deep Seek, I think was a little bit of a knee jerk because as innovation normally happens, price and cost does go down, but then that improves productivity and a wider adoption. So for our clients, we are cautious in this environment for sure, because we were lowering our expectations of growth because of the uncertainty around policy.

But I think to your point, the reaction of Deep Seek, I think was a little bit of a knee jerk because as innovation normally happens, price and cost does go down, but then that improves productivity and a wider adoption. So for our clients, we are cautious in this environment for sure, because we were lowering our expectations of growth because of the uncertainty around policy.

But I also still see that there are.

But I also still see that there are.

Opportunities in tech when you think about the expansion and adoption through through software, and maybe it's not so much of that hardware conversation that you're you're implying that.

Opportunities in tech when you think about the expansion and adoption through through software, and maybe it's not so much of that hardware conversation that you're you're implying that.

So all right, first of all, where do you see those opportunities and is it enough to make up for a drop in the massive hardware games. I mean, if you look at the three trillion dollar companies, you know, Apple and and Video. You know, if those lose their mojo, can we make it back with Microsoft or you know, more of a software play.

So all right, first of all, where do you see those opportunities and is it enough to make up for a drop in the massive hardware games. I mean, if you look at the three trillion dollar companies, you know, Apple and and Video. You know, if those lose their mojo, can we make it back with Microsoft or you know, more of a software play.

Well.

Well.

I think this correction and this reevaluation of earnings multiples going forward, it's really a case by case basis. I think you're seeing more of active management, you know, helping us work portfolios and making those choices between company names and growth versus value.

I think this correction and this reevaluation of earnings multiples going forward, it's really a case by case basis. I think you're seeing more of active management, you know, helping us work portfolios and making those choices between company names and growth versus value.

Let me give you an example.

Let me give you an example.

I mean Apple for recently pulling back because as it's delaying a launch of an AI innovation tool that surprise investors. That's a different story than possibly what we're going to hear next week from Navidia regarding the adoption and the ramping up of Blackwell and the next version of Blackwell, which might be even more efficient to implement from a server perspective, and what the adoption rate might be in their ecosystem going forward, So I think it's a case by case and looking at things on.

I mean Apple for recently pulling back because as it's delaying a launch of an AI innovation tool that surprise investors. That's a different story than possibly what we're going to hear next week from Navidia regarding the adoption and the ramping up of Blackwell and the next version of Blackwell, which might be even more efficient to implement from a server perspective, and what the adoption rate might be in their ecosystem going forward, So I think it's a case by case and looking at things on.

A four to pe perspective.

A four to pe perspective.

In the video, it's a lot more attractive now obviously than it did at the beginning of the year. I think the opportunities still exist in those aspects of that AI innovation trend because it's still going to play out over the next five years. But you just got to be patient. It's not going to happen all one year. And on the value side, we still like those names that can participate in growth moving forward, healthcare industrials, some elements of financials. But you've got to be cautious that the economic environment is changing in the short term because the administration is looking to decouple the United States and some aspects of the global economy. So you have to be sensitive to small caps right now. You have to be sensitive to some of these companies that will get caught up in the tariff conversations, like autos and others, where there is a lot of this cross border exchange issues that companies pay for. And that's the part that I think investors don't realize with some of these conversations, is that it's not that this extra tariff money is going to go back to the government. It's actually being absorbed by companies, and companies now are making a decision on how they're going to try to protect margins, and then, of course the concern is how does that play out to consumers. So we're cautious in this environment, Matt, but we're also not giving up the US capital market system.

In the video, it's a lot more attractive now obviously than it did at the beginning of the year. I think the opportunities still exist in those aspects of that AI innovation trend because it's still going to play out over the next five years. But you just got to be patient. It's not going to happen all one year. And on the value side, we still like those names that can participate in growth moving forward, healthcare industrials, some elements of financials. But you've got to be cautious that the economic environment is changing in the short term because the administration is looking to decouple the United States and some aspects of the global economy. So you have to be sensitive to small caps right now. You have to be sensitive to some of these companies that will get caught up in the tariff conversations, like autos and others, where there is a lot of this cross border exchange issues that companies pay for. And that's the part that I think investors don't realize with some of these conversations, is that it's not that this extra tariff money is going to go back to the government. It's actually being absorbed by companies, and companies now are making a decision on how they're going to try to protect margins, and then, of course the concern is how does that play out to consumers. So we're cautious in this environment, Matt, but we're also not giving up the US capital market system.

Yeah, I'm looking at the wrestle down about ten percent so far this year. Hey, Brian just got about thirty seconds here. We talked earlier with our Ed Harrison about money moving from the US to Europe. We've seen the European markets outperform easily by wide margin. US DOXS is measured by the S and P five hundred. Are you moving money outside the US for your clients Europe or elsewhere just quickly?

Yeah, I'm looking at the wrestle down about ten percent so far this year. Hey, Brian just got about thirty seconds here. We talked earlier with our Ed Harrison about money moving from the US to Europe. We've seen the European markets outperform easily by wide margin. US DOXS is measured by the S and P five hundred. Are you moving money outside the US for your clients Europe or elsewhere just quickly?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, sure.

I mean we've had we have an exposure to international most of our portfolios, and we are evaluating adding to that because it seems like the investment in countries right now are being bolstered, and you think about what's coming out of China and Europe being less reliant on the US and looking to invest more domestically.

I mean we've had we have an exposure to international most of our portfolios, and we are evaluating adding to that because it seems like the investment in countries right now are being bolstered, and you think about what's coming out of China and Europe being less reliant on the US and looking to invest more domestically.

I think we want to get through the next.

I think we want to get through the next.

Couple of weeks on the tariff conversations and where these policy decision are going to go in the beginning of April and getting a little bit more there. But I think there is an opportunity that international equities could be a good spot for your portfolio and also comes with a more attractive PA.

Couple of weeks on the tariff conversations and where these policy decision are going to go in the beginning of April and getting a little bit more there. But I think there is an opportunity that international equities could be a good spot for your portfolio and also comes with a more attractive PA.

All right, good stuff, Hey Brian, thanks so much. Good to see you again and talk with you again. Brian Vendi, Chief investment Officer at MJP Wealth Advisors, joining us from Scottsdale, Arizona.

All right, good stuff, Hey Brian, thanks so much. Good to see you again and talk with you again. Brian Vendi, Chief investment Officer at MJP Wealth Advisors, joining us from Scottsdale, Arizona.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting a two pm Eastern up on Apple Car Play Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting a two pm Eastern up on Apple Car Play Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Got to talk.

Got to talk.

About Intel jumping the most and I think more than five years. I got to check my numbers right now, It's up about fourteen percent, was up almost nineteen percent of its highs. Today, company naming Lipbutan as its next chief executive officer and trusting a former board member and semiconductor veteran with one of the toughest jobs, safe to say, in the chip industry with what you need to know back with us, as Bloomberg News US Semiconductor and networking reporter Ian King, he's out there in our San Francisco bureau. I'm guessing you've had a pretty busy twenty four hours or so.

About Intel jumping the most and I think more than five years. I got to check my numbers right now, It's up about fourteen percent, was up almost nineteen percent of its highs. Today, company naming Lipbutan as its next chief executive officer and trusting a former board member and semiconductor veteran with one of the toughest jobs, safe to say, in the chip industry with what you need to know back with us, as Bloomberg News US Semiconductor and networking reporter Ian King, he's out there in our San Francisco bureau. I'm guessing you've had a pretty busy twenty four hours or so.

Ian who is Lipbutan.

Ian who is Lipbutan.

Yeah, Liputan is obviously, as you said, an industry veteran. He's kind of sixty five years old, got into the industry really as a sort of bunch of capitalists, then migrated to become the CEO of an electronic design company called Cadence. Arguably rescued that company from a difficult situation and built his career there. I think the defining characteristic, according to everybody we're speaking to, is that he's renowned as somebody who has the biggest network, all of the contacts, knows everybody knows, every company, knows what's going on in the industry, and they're hoping that that will be of use to Intel.

Yeah, Liputan is obviously, as you said, an industry veteran. He's kind of sixty five years old, got into the industry really as a sort of bunch of capitalists, then migrated to become the CEO of an electronic design company called Cadence. Arguably rescued that company from a difficult situation and built his career there. I think the defining characteristic, according to everybody we're speaking to, is that he's renowned as somebody who has the biggest network, all of the contacts, knows everybody knows, every company, knows what's going on in the industry, and they're hoping that that will be of use to Intel.

In a sense I was thinking this morning, he's kind of like the Kamala Harris of Intel.

In a sense I was thinking this morning, he's kind of like the Kamala Harris of Intel.

Wait a minute, so much what you mean?

Wait a minute, so much what you mean?

Tell me if I'm wrong, But it seems like he plans on keeping pretty much the same strategy as Pat Gelsinger. Is is he going to do something different that we know of or do you think he has maybe an ace up as sleeve.

Tell me if I'm wrong, But it seems like he plans on keeping pretty much the same strategy as Pat Gelsinger. Is is he going to do something different that we know of or do you think he has maybe an ace up as sleeve.

Yeah, I mean that's a very good question. So to address that directly, we don't know yet. I mean, from what was publicly put out there yesterday was as you just indicated, very much, Well, you know, we're going to stay the course here. But the I think, and you're seeing that reaction in the market today, a lot of investors would quite like to see some value realize from this asset in the form of splitting it up. Maybe, you know, as we know his predecessor, Pat Gelsinger was variently opposed to that idea. Maybe he isn't. So that's one of the plays that's going on here. And also perhaps are more realistic. Maybe he uses this great contacts network that he's got to bring in some of those outside customers that Intel needs. I mean, these are all of the things that are going on in people's minds right now. But to your point, we.

Yeah, I mean that's a very good question. So to address that directly, we don't know yet. I mean, from what was publicly put out there yesterday was as you just indicated, very much, Well, you know, we're going to stay the course here. But the I think, and you're seeing that reaction in the market today, a lot of investors would quite like to see some value realize from this asset in the form of splitting it up. Maybe, you know, as we know his predecessor, Pat Gelsinger was variently opposed to that idea. Maybe he isn't. So that's one of the plays that's going on here. And also perhaps are more realistic. Maybe he uses this great contacts network that he's got to bring in some of those outside customers that Intel needs. I mean, these are all of the things that are going on in people's minds right now. But to your point, we.

Don't know yet.

Don't know yet.

We're going to see him face direct questions once he gets his kind of feet under the table next week.

We're going to see him face direct questions once he gets his kind of feet under the table next week.

Well, that's what I was going to also wonder, or I wondered Ian.

Well, that's what I was going to also wonder, or I wondered Ian.

Because he has such great contacts across the industry, Jesse helped facilitate some deals. I know that we've seen Intel move higher on maybe some kind of deal with his foundry. We've seen headlines about TSMC pitching Intel Foundry as a joint venture to Nvidia and Broadcom.

Because he has such great contacts across the industry, Jesse helped facilitate some deals. I know that we've seen Intel move higher on maybe some kind of deal with his foundry. We've seen headlines about TSMC pitching Intel Foundry as a joint venture to Nvidia and Broadcom.

That was a Reuter story.

That was a Reuter story.

But like you've been focused on this too, about you know, kind of what iteration of Intel going forward and is he the guy to kind of get it done and get it done?

But like you've been focused on this too, about you know, kind of what iteration of Intel going forward and is he the guy to kind of get it done and get it done?

Well, yeah, I.

Well, yeah, I.

Mean again, I think you're going to the heart of the matter here. If Intel is to stay the course, it needs outside customers. It needs orders from Nvidia, from Apple, from AMD, from everybody else. So you need somebody who knows how to talk to them and persuade them that Intel is no longer the big vibe wolf, that it's here to help you and you should use its factories that would help Intel to become what it wants to become, what it says it should be.

Mean again, I think you're going to the heart of the matter here. If Intel is to stay the course, it needs outside customers. It needs orders from Nvidia, from Apple, from AMD, from everybody else. So you need somebody who knows how to talk to them and persuade them that Intel is no longer the big vibe wolf, that it's here to help you and you should use its factories that would help Intel to become what it wants to become, what it says it should be.

On the flip side of it, if you're.

On the flip side of it, if you're.

Going to split Intel up, it's an enormously important and complex set of dependencies, set of requirements, whether it's government, whether it's customers. So there's a lot going to have to go into a deal. If it's going to be split up, whether it's for the product side or whether it's for the factory side, that would require somebody who knows how to pull on these various threads and dance through the various corridors of power and boardrooms to make this happen.

Going to split Intel up, it's an enormously important and complex set of dependencies, set of requirements, whether it's government, whether it's customers. So there's a lot going to have to go into a deal. If it's going to be split up, whether it's for the product side or whether it's for the factory side, that would require somebody who knows how to pull on these various threads and dance through the various corridors of power and boardrooms to make this happen.

So maybe that's who he is as.

So maybe that's who he is as.

Well, So could work either way, but Intel certainly has a lot of work to do ahead of it.

Well, So could work either way, but Intel certainly has a lot of work to do ahead of it.

You know, my biggest worry is the great state of Ohio. Here Intel was going to invest I think thirty billion dollars in a new fab right in between Granville and Columbus. So many businesses and and and consumers there had been preparing for the big winfall that that would be.

You know, my biggest worry is the great state of Ohio. Here Intel was going to invest I think thirty billion dollars in a new fab right in between Granville and Columbus. So many businesses and and and consumers there had been preparing for the big winfall that that would be.

Are they still going to be able to do that?

Are they still going to be able to do that?

Is it dependent on billions of dollars in the federal government? Is Trump going to put an end to that with the sort of cancelation of the Chips Act.

Is it dependent on billions of dollars in the federal government? Is Trump going to put an end to that with the sort of cancelation of the Chips Act.

Yeah, So what Intel have said is, look, we'll build it when it makes sense, and it doesn't make sense right now. Okay, we don't need the capacity, we're not going to build it. So in theory, if they do get some of the orders from outside companies, if they do realize you know, some engagements, they do get better products out there, they have more demand, then it makes sense to build Ohio. The project could come back online. And as you know from the Chips Act as it stands, is basically an achievement based system where you do a certain thing, you get a certain amount of money, you move on to the next stage and you get the money for that. So it all could come back together. But the chip industry is littered in history with what are called shells, the plants built but no equipment in them. Without the equipment, they're meaningless. Companies throughout history have built these things thinking maybe on need, this is kind of an option, and then it never comes to pass, and that could be Ohio's fate.

Yeah, So what Intel have said is, look, we'll build it when it makes sense, and it doesn't make sense right now. Okay, we don't need the capacity, we're not going to build it. So in theory, if they do get some of the orders from outside companies, if they do realize you know, some engagements, they do get better products out there, they have more demand, then it makes sense to build Ohio. The project could come back online. And as you know from the Chips Act as it stands, is basically an achievement based system where you do a certain thing, you get a certain amount of money, you move on to the next stage and you get the money for that. So it all could come back together. But the chip industry is littered in history with what are called shells, the plants built but no equipment in them. Without the equipment, they're meaningless. Companies throughout history have built these things thinking maybe on need, this is kind of an option, and then it never comes to pass, and that could be Ohio's fate.

Hey, I in horrible care, I know, I'm sorry for that. Well, you know, right, poor book guys, I.

Hey, I in horrible care, I know, I'm sorry for that. Well, you know, right, poor book guys, I.

Know, I know, right, And the expectations of what that would do, certainly for local economies. Hey, ian Ton, I mean there's naming a CEO and then there's making sure that you've got kind of the key senior people in place for wherever the company's going. Do you anticipate that he's going to be bringing in other people? Does he need to change some teams around, or is it enough just to have the CEO with maybe be you know, a different background and just kind of taking the company on his own forward.

Know, I know, right, And the expectations of what that would do, certainly for local economies. Hey, ian Ton, I mean there's naming a CEO and then there's making sure that you've got kind of the key senior people in place for wherever the company's going. Do you anticipate that he's going to be bringing in other people? Does he need to change some teams around, or is it enough just to have the CEO with maybe be you know, a different background and just kind of taking the company on his own forward.

There was a sense under his predecessor, Pat Gelsinger that you know, things got shaken up at the top. There were a lot of you know, comings and goings of executives. And there was also the same thing under their predecessor, you know, Brian Krasanich and Bob Swans.

There was a sense under his predecessor, Pat Gelsinger that you know, things got shaken up at the top. There were a lot of you know, comings and goings of executives. And there was also the same thing under their predecessor, you know, Brian Krasanich and Bob Swans.

It's hard.

It's hard.

Intel used to be a company that grew its own and had a very clear succession plan and everything would filter up. Now we're really not sure whether it's internal folks that are the answer, whether they need talent from outside. Going to be hard to do that though.

Intel used to be a company that grew its own and had a very clear succession plan and everything would filter up. Now we're really not sure whether it's internal folks that are the answer, whether they need talent from outside. Going to be hard to do that though.

So how much time does Intel have or how much time does time have in other words, how much time do investors give him to kind of figure this out?

So how much time does Intel have or how much time does time have in other words, how much time do investors give him to kind of figure this out?

Again?

Again?

I think the very important question you the doom and gloom talk is all Intel's finished, Oh dear, you know, it's going to fade away. It's still a very big company. If they cut back on the spending, if they cut back on this a plan to return to being what they were. It's a profitable company. It's a smaller company. It's not the Intel that it used to be, but it's it's a viable company. So there are a lot of decisions to be made here. If they still go for it, it doesn't have a lot of time, right, because the numbers don't add up. If they retrench, if they are less ambitious, it's there's no time with it.

I think the very important question you the doom and gloom talk is all Intel's finished, Oh dear, you know, it's going to fade away. It's still a very big company. If they cut back on the spending, if they cut back on this a plan to return to being what they were. It's a profitable company. It's a smaller company. It's not the Intel that it used to be, but it's it's a viable company. So there are a lot of decisions to be made here. If they still go for it, it doesn't have a lot of time, right, because the numbers don't add up. If they retrench, if they are less ambitious, it's there's no time with it.

Yeah, two billion dollar company right now?

Yeah, two billion dollar company right now?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And videos two trillion, eight hundred and fifty billion dollar company.

And videos two trillion, eight hundred and fifty billion dollar company.

There's a big.

There's a big.

Discrepancy there, right, and the and the and by the way, the estimated PE for in video is twenty five. The estimated PE for Intel's fifty.

Discrepancy there, right, and the and the and by the way, the estimated PE for in video is twenty five. The estimated PE for Intel's fifty.

I got about twenty seconds.

I got about twenty seconds.

Any thoughts, Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Any thoughts, Yeah, you're absolutely right.

I mean, the numbers do not lie.

I mean, the numbers do not lie.

There's been a massive transfer of wealth, not only in the stock market, but reflecting where the industry has gone away from.

There's been a massive transfer of wealth, not only in the stock market, but reflecting where the industry has gone away from.

Intel into Nvidia.

Intel into Nvidia.

And unless Intel can do something about that, then the numbers are still going to be ugly, all.

And unless Intel can do something about that, then the numbers are still going to be ugly, all.

Right, Ian, thanks so much.

Right, Ian, thanks so much.

We know it's been a busy week for you, so appreciate getting some time and getting you to weigh in it.

We know it's been a busy week for you, so appreciate getting some time and getting you to weigh in it.

We actually Tim and I read.

We actually Tim and I read.

Ian story as soon as it hit the terminal yesterday because we wanted to make sure we shared it with everybody in king usmconductor and networking reporter at Bloomberg News. As we said, shares of intel Man, they are just soaring in today's session. I think it's a top gainer in the S ANDP of the nawstetain since February.

Ian story as soon as it hit the terminal yesterday because we wanted to make sure we shared it with everybody in king usmconductor and networking reporter at Bloomberg News. As we said, shares of intel Man, they are just soaring in today's session. I think it's a top gainer in the S ANDP of the nawstetain since February.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Huge.

Huge.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

You might recall last week we did see a.

You might recall last week we did see a.

Visit to the White House by executives in the crypto industry falling President Trump's executive order creating a strategic Bitcoin reserve and a national stockpile of other tokens. Guest was at the White House Digital Assets Summit last week. Joining us is Andrew Dirgy. He's go CEO of Republic. It's a private investing platform for crypto for startups, gaming and real estate. The Lore Equity, Galaxy Interactive, and Morgan Stanley are among its factors. Andrew joining us from Florida. Hey, Andrew, good to have you here with Matt and myself. Hey take us to that meeting last week? Kind of how it all went down.

Visit to the White House by executives in the crypto industry falling President Trump's executive order creating a strategic Bitcoin reserve and a national stockpile of other tokens. Guest was at the White House Digital Assets Summit last week. Joining us is Andrew Dirgy. He's go CEO of Republic. It's a private investing platform for crypto for startups, gaming and real estate. The Lore Equity, Galaxy Interactive, and Morgan Stanley are among its factors. Andrew joining us from Florida. Hey, Andrew, good to have you here with Matt and myself. Hey take us to that meeting last week? Kind of how it all went down.

Yeah, you know, it really was a special experience.

Yeah, you know, it really was a special experience.

Overall, for fifteen years that I've been in the space, every day has been nothing but headwinds, particularly from the US government or what I would say felt like getting punched in the face over and over again. And me and a variety of close friends and partners that have been in the trenches in the industry for a long time show up and we got a hug from the government. So that was a very emotionally confusing moment, I think for a variety of us. But you know, it really showed how serious the administration is at not only looking at the space of what's coming in the future, but making sure that we can event what has previously happened in the past. And they really gave a form for the industry leaders to all come together and have an opportunity to have a speaking moment and have requests and figure out what's going to be the right path over the next four years to make sure that change happens and change stays.

Overall, for fifteen years that I've been in the space, every day has been nothing but headwinds, particularly from the US government or what I would say felt like getting punched in the face over and over again. And me and a variety of close friends and partners that have been in the trenches in the industry for a long time show up and we got a hug from the government. So that was a very emotionally confusing moment, I think for a variety of us. But you know, it really showed how serious the administration is at not only looking at the space of what's coming in the future, but making sure that we can event what has previously happened in the past. And they really gave a form for the industry leaders to all come together and have an opportunity to have a speaking moment and have requests and figure out what's going to be the right path over the next four years to make sure that change happens and change stays.

Hopefully, the getting punched in the face over the last fifteen years, the blow was softened as you got richer and richer if you held bitcoin. I mean, it hasn't been that bad, right for those who hold these digital assets. At one point I bought a bitcoin for six hundred dollars and a couple weeks ago it crossed over one hundred thousand. Is that a directional? Is that direction going to continue to be up, up up? You know.

Hopefully, the getting punched in the face over the last fifteen years, the blow was softened as you got richer and richer if you held bitcoin. I mean, it hasn't been that bad, right for those who hold these digital assets. At one point I bought a bitcoin for six hundred dollars and a couple weeks ago it crossed over one hundred thousand. Is that a directional? Is that direction going to continue to be up, up up? You know.

I love what you said there.

I love what you said there.

Oftentimes people will associate the you know, happiness with the economic growth. But that's assuming that people held the asset like indefinitely, right, And usually what I'd tell people I got involved in twenty ten. The only different between me and someone who got involved in twenty nineteens, I just suffered a lot more, right.

Oftentimes people will associate the you know, happiness with the economic growth. But that's assuming that people held the asset like indefinitely, right, And usually what I'd tell people I got involved in twenty ten. The only different between me and someone who got involved in twenty nineteens, I just suffered a lot more, right.

A lot of people didn't understand what was going on.

A lot of people didn't understand what was going on.

A lot of people were concerned this with a scam or ponds he or whatever.

A lot of people were concerned this with a scam or ponds he or whatever.

And you know, now we see institutions.

And you know, now we see institutions.

That are very much involved as it relates to bitcoin, and it's just an entirely different veil that we get to wear, and that's exciting.

That are very much involved as it relates to bitcoin, and it's just an entirely different veil that we get to wear, and that's exciting.

And what was this like a part of your question?

And what was this like a part of your question?

Well, I was just wondering if you can, if you expect bitcoin to continue to move in that direction. I mean, it has been astounding to me. I remember Joe Wisenthal. I told him I loved it at two fifty and he messaged me at seventy five and said, you've got to, you know, double up now, and I wish I had.

Well, I was just wondering if you can, if you expect bitcoin to continue to move in that direction. I mean, it has been astounding to me. I remember Joe Wisenthal. I told him I loved it at two fifty and he messaged me at seventy five and said, you've got to, you know, double up now, and I wish I had.

Obviously you're still here, so I'm guessing you didn't.

Obviously you're still here, so I'm guessing you didn't.

Yeah, I spent I was transacting with my bitcoin, which is ridiculous. I bought a beer with bitcoin and you could buy a car with that now. But do you think we're going to go to two hundred thousand to five hundred thousand, and what's your time frame for that?

Yeah, I spent I was transacting with my bitcoin, which is ridiculous. I bought a beer with bitcoin and you could buy a car with that now. But do you think we're going to go to two hundred thousand to five hundred thousand, and what's your time frame for that?

What are your expectations?

What are your expectations?

Yeah, listen, the reality is there's only ever going to be twenty one million bitcoin, right, That's it. And in twenty thirty four, I think twenty thirty five, ninety nine percent of that bitcoin will be in circulation nine nine point nine percent. So there is a real scarcity around it. And now you know the comparison we always like to draw up the firm is, you know, what is the if we're looking at bitcoin as an actual gold competitor and we compare it to what is the actual size the gold market. Bitcoin has a long way to go still to this day, and if as we're moving through it's already been announced that there's a strategic bitcoin reserve coming, and it's been announced that they are going to be buying bitcoin, you know, there is a scenario here, not just in the US by the way, obviously we're talking about the US, but it will expand far beyond that where governments we'll print money to buy bitcoin. Now, ultimately, the US commitment is it's not going to cost tax payers any dollars, right, They're going to build a strategic reserve with additional cost to the citizens here. But every other country may not operate that way. So you're looking at a really unique dynamic again where governments will be printing fee I be printing money and ultimately to build up their bitcoin reserves.

Yeah, listen, the reality is there's only ever going to be twenty one million bitcoin, right, That's it. And in twenty thirty four, I think twenty thirty five, ninety nine percent of that bitcoin will be in circulation nine nine point nine percent. So there is a real scarcity around it. And now you know the comparison we always like to draw up the firm is, you know, what is the if we're looking at bitcoin as an actual gold competitor and we compare it to what is the actual size the gold market. Bitcoin has a long way to go still to this day, and if as we're moving through it's already been announced that there's a strategic bitcoin reserve coming, and it's been announced that they are going to be buying bitcoin, you know, there is a scenario here, not just in the US by the way, obviously we're talking about the US, but it will expand far beyond that where governments we'll print money to buy bitcoin. Now, ultimately, the US commitment is it's not going to cost tax payers any dollars, right, They're going to build a strategic reserve with additional cost to the citizens here. But every other country may not operate that way. So you're looking at a really unique dynamic again where governments will be printing fee I be printing money and ultimately to build up their bitcoin reserves.

So yes, I think it's very much still directional.

So yes, I think it's very much still directional.

But were you so much I want to go back to the White House meeting. Weren't you somewhat disappointed. It seemed like the crypto industry was overall. I think they expected, you know, the administration, the government to be active buyers and not just bitcoin but other currencies.

But were you so much I want to go back to the White House meeting. Weren't you somewhat disappointed. It seemed like the crypto industry was overall. I think they expected, you know, the administration, the government to be active buyers and not just bitcoin but other currencies.

So weren't you disappointed a little bit?

So weren't you disappointed a little bit?

You know?

You know?

I think the industry itself definitely has very much knee jerky reactions. It's that the nature of the space in and of itself. But I think that event was a very big symbol, and symbols can be powerful. It would not ignore that, right Camervo was Tyler or Cameron winkleboss had a really great quote, and I told them I was going to steal this in the future, so I'm doing it now.

I think the industry itself definitely has very much knee jerky reactions. It's that the nature of the space in and of itself. But I think that event was a very big symbol, and symbols can be powerful. It would not ignore that, right Camervo was Tyler or Cameron winkleboss had a really great quote, and I told them I was going to steal this in the future, so I'm doing it now.

Guys.

Guys.

Sorry, They said, you know, a year ago, they thought it would be more likely that you know, they could be in prison rather than in the White House, right, and that that that's a wild thought. And they continued on beyond that to even say, you know, right now, crypto businesses are born in law firms rather than being born inside dorm rooms and garages, right, and so that that that is a real problem.

Sorry, They said, you know, a year ago, they thought it would be more likely that you know, they could be in prison rather than in the White House, right, and that that that's a wild thought. And they continued on beyond that to even say, you know, right now, crypto businesses are born in law firms rather than being born inside dorm rooms and garages, right, and so that that that is a real problem.

So that's crazy because those are a couple of the most respectable people, I think in the crypto industry.

So that's crazy because those are a couple of the most respectable people, I think in the crypto industry.

But wait, wait wait, but were you disappointed? Did you expect to get more in terms?

But wait, wait wait, but were you disappointed? Did you expect to get more in terms?

No?

No?

Yeah, okay, what was going to happen? Like what what?

Yeah, okay, what was going to happen? Like what what?

You know?

You know?

It's not like their bills were going to be passed in that room, right, But we had a room with all we had there was about thirty people. You had six or so cabinet cabinet members and legislators. You had four regulators, and you had twenty industry people give or take something like that. Everyone had a moment to make a request and ask for something, and those asks were very, very powerful and one of the more common ones that took place that you know, the twenty probably eight to ten people asked, is they want to see legislation. The real fear is that we're going to make these executive orders and we are going to make these these big moves, but four years from now that those can be undone and we don't want to see that happen. We want whatever we do ultimately to have long standing, you know, long standing power on a go for so we can build a business around it.

It's not like their bills were going to be passed in that room, right, But we had a room with all we had there was about thirty people. You had six or so cabinet cabinet members and legislators. You had four regulators, and you had twenty industry people give or take something like that. Everyone had a moment to make a request and ask for something, and those asks were very, very powerful and one of the more common ones that took place that you know, the twenty probably eight to ten people asked, is they want to see legislation. The real fear is that we're going to make these executive orders and we are going to make these these big moves, but four years from now that those can be undone and we don't want to see that happen. We want whatever we do ultimately to have long standing, you know, long standing power on a go for so we can build a business around it.

You know.

You know.

To me, the fear is a lot of people in the crypto industry have worked for over a decade tirelessly to build a respectable industry, and obviously there have been some mean coins and I won't even say s coins along the way that kind of ruin that. And when you see a rug pole like trump coin or Milania coin, that's got to be concerning as well. Right the president of the United States States issuing a meme coin and then you know it was trading at seventy five dollars and then dumped everybody involved and now it's ten. Isn't that a concern for you? Don't you want someone who's a little bit more consistent, and you know, someone who has it kind of a different image than Donald Trump to be backing this up.

To me, the fear is a lot of people in the crypto industry have worked for over a decade tirelessly to build a respectable industry, and obviously there have been some mean coins and I won't even say s coins along the way that kind of ruin that. And when you see a rug pole like trump coin or Milania coin, that's got to be concerning as well. Right the president of the United States States issuing a meme coin and then you know it was trading at seventy five dollars and then dumped everybody involved and now it's ten. Isn't that a concern for you? Don't you want someone who's a little bit more consistent, and you know, someone who has it kind of a different image than Donald Trump to be backing this up.

I think the thing that people need to recognize is a lot of promises are made in presidential campaigns all the time, and they're often not kept. And people will make commitments and when you call in those commitments, it's oh, yeah, we'll we'll get to that. I got to take care of this other thing, regardless of where you sit politically. Donald Trump came in, he made a commitment to make a variety of changes, and in like the first couple of months, those things are happening, right. David Sacks had a really great quote during the Wayoff event. He said, the administration is moving faster than most startups that David Sacks has worked with, Right, And that's a wild idea. Like, we're already this far in a very very short window. What will be longer?

I think the thing that people need to recognize is a lot of promises are made in presidential campaigns all the time, and they're often not kept. And people will make commitments and when you call in those commitments, it's oh, yeah, we'll we'll get to that. I got to take care of this other thing, regardless of where you sit politically. Donald Trump came in, he made a commitment to make a variety of changes, and in like the first couple of months, those things are happening, right. David Sacks had a really great quote during the Wayoff event. He said, the administration is moving faster than most startups that David Sacks has worked with, Right, And that's a wild idea. Like, we're already this far in a very very short window. What will be longer?

Now?

Now?

You know, yes, there is there other things going on and Trump coin and you know, and other distractions, certainly, but like, will I take those things to also get something in the longer vision?

You know, yes, there is there other things going on and Trump coin and you know, and other distractions, certainly, but like, will I take those things to also get something in the longer vision?

Absolutely?

Absolutely?

I think, you know, the alternative to what is happening now was unthinkable, And so now we're in a position where we have leaders and legislators that really want to figure out how to make this work and bring innovation back to the US. One of the largest capital flights, human capital flights that I know of, was when we basically eliminated the industry from the US, and you all the money and all the incredibly intelligent developers had were forced ultimately to leave the country. We have an opportunity to bring them back, right, And people who I thought would never.

I think, you know, the alternative to what is happening now was unthinkable, And so now we're in a position where we have leaders and legislators that really want to figure out how to make this work and bring innovation back to the US. One of the largest capital flights, human capital flights that I know of, was when we basically eliminated the industry from the US, and you all the money and all the incredibly intelligent developers had were forced ultimately to leave the country. We have an opportunity to bring them back, right, And people who I thought would never.

Move back to the US.

Move back to the US.

So the smartest people I've ever met my entire life are now making their way back, and they're bringing the capital with them and that's going to have a real impact on not only the industry, but just the economy in and of itself.

So the smartest people I've ever met my entire life are now making their way back, and they're bringing the capital with them and that's going to have a real impact on not only the industry, but just the economy in and of itself.

But you think they'll shake.

But you think they'll shake.

I talked to the CEO of Tether today. Yeah, it came to us live from El Salvador and well, you know.

I talked to the CEO of Tether today. Yeah, it came to us live from El Salvador and well, you know.

We used was flowing back and it was just a new Well he you know, he did his first trip to to the US ever last week in this week, so he was in DC and then he was in New York for a Cantor event over the past couple of days, and that was his first time in the US.

We used was flowing back and it was just a new Well he you know, he did his first trip to to the US ever last week in this week, so he was in DC and then he was in New York for a Cantor event over the past couple of days, and that was his first time in the US.

Is that because Andrew You think he was afraid in you know, before this administration of the same thing as the Winkleby, that that he would end up in jail.

Is that because Andrew You think he was afraid in you know, before this administration of the same thing as the Winkleby, that that he would end up in jail.

I mean, I can't put words in his mouth, but I can't imagine that that wouldn't have been a thought, right that happened with others.

I mean, I can't put words in his mouth, but I can't imagine that that wouldn't have been a thought, right that happened with others.

Let me ask that's a real fear.

Let me ask that's a real fear.

Yeah, I know, I get that.

Yeah, I know, I get that.

Let me ask you a question that you're probably asked a lot. But Karl was asking me about this during the break as well. And now I'm getting a listener who writes in and says, when will we see any real utility use for bitcoin besides just a proxy for beta risk taking.

Let me ask you a question that you're probably asked a lot. But Karl was asking me about this during the break as well. And now I'm getting a listener who writes in and says, when will we see any real utility use for bitcoin besides just a proxy for beta risk taking.

That's a little bit flipant.

That's a little bit flipant.

I think of it as digital gold, but it's a valid question. We really do transactions, and I'm sure, well, is that the ultimate goal is transactions? What what you think we eventually want to be doing with this or how do you see it?

I think of it as digital gold, but it's a valid question. We really do transactions, and I'm sure, well, is that the ultimate goal is transactions? What what you think we eventually want to be doing with this or how do you see it?

I mean for the industry, payments is a is a real use case and it's being done now at scale in multiple places.

I mean for the industry, payments is a is a real use case and it's being done now at scale in multiple places.

Bitcoin. You don't want to buy.

Bitcoin. You don't want to buy.

Anything with right, I mean no?

Anything with right, I mean no?

And he says, only if you're crazy.

And he says, only if you're crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you know, my sailor is very much in the cant that bitcoin is a commodity, even though it's not taxed appropriately as a commodity, but that it is a commodity.

And you know, my sailor is very much in the cant that bitcoin is a commodity, even though it's not taxed appropriately as a commodity, but that it is a commodity.

Uh.

Uh.

And you know from a transactional perspective, in its native state, it's not great for that.

And you know from a transactional perspective, in its native state, it's not great for that.

Fundamentally it's a store of value.

Fundamentally it's a store of value.

But other things built on Bitcoin, like bitcoin lightning, Tether's building an L two on bitcoin as well.

But other things built on Bitcoin, like bitcoin lightning, Tether's building an L two on bitcoin as well.

You know, that's all moving now which will allow it to be very transactional.

You know, that's all moving now which will allow it to be very transactional.

But Bitcoin in its native state is very much a store of value, or like that digital gold idea, which is why a strategic reserve for that actually makes a lot of sense.

But Bitcoin in its native state is very much a store of value, or like that digital gold idea, which is why a strategic reserve for that actually makes a lot of sense.

All right, we gott to leave it there. Interesting stuff. You know, I didn't even get to the headline.

All right, we gott to leave it there. Interesting stuff. You know, I didn't even get to the headline.

Did you see the journal at the Trump family holding talks to take a financial stake in Binance?

Did you see the journal at the Trump family holding talks to take a financial stake in Binance?

Yes, along with the Melania Coin.

Yes, along with the Melania Coin.

Our Andrew Jurgy, Co, CEO of Republic, joining us from Florida.

Our Andrew Jurgy, Co, CEO of Republic, joining us from Florida.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five these during this listen on Applecarplay and Android autto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five these during this listen on Applecarplay and Android autto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

All right, folks, we are just about eighteen minutes away from the closing bell on Wall Street. I want to point out a story in the Bloomberg today just reminded us about what we've seen in the municipal bond market. Biggest sell off in more than two years, causing valuations to tumble, opening a buying window for investors able to withstand the volatility. Welcome to our new reality. Our next guest invest in the meunia market with us as we drive to the closed Lyle Fitterer, Co Lead Municipal Sector and senior portfolio manager over at Bear joining us right here in our Bloomberg Interactor broker studio.

All right, folks, we are just about eighteen minutes away from the closing bell on Wall Street. I want to point out a story in the Bloomberg today just reminded us about what we've seen in the municipal bond market. Biggest sell off in more than two years, causing valuations to tumble, opening a buying window for investors able to withstand the volatility. Welcome to our new reality. Our next guest invest in the meunia market with us as we drive to the closed Lyle Fitterer, Co Lead Municipal Sector and senior portfolio manager over at Bear joining us right here in our Bloomberg Interactor broker studio.

How are you good, How are you guys doing? Thanks for having me.

How are you good, How are you guys doing? Thanks for having me.

It's good to have you here, you know, trying to keep up with the headlines. How do you kind of pull in everything that we're getting out of Washington and just geopolitics, trying to figure out kind of what it means for the US economy, what it means for state and local governments, how it impacts the communi market.

It's good to have you here, you know, trying to keep up with the headlines. How do you kind of pull in everything that we're getting out of Washington and just geopolitics, trying to figure out kind of what it means for the US economy, what it means for state and local governments, how it impacts the communi market.

Yeah, I think what you're seeing going on right now is in obviously every market, right is that people are reassessing risk in the marketplace. You know, it's the same thing in the municipal market where what sort of federal support are you going to get on a go forward basis, What programs are they going to cut, what's going to happen to medicate? How's that going to impact a healthcare organization? So for us, it means you got to take down risk, which we had already been doing in our portfolios. Probably take up liquidity in your portfolios to really, from our perspective, provide ammunition for and dry powder to invest when the market gets cheaper, and we're seeing that now.

Yeah, I think what you're seeing going on right now is in obviously every market, right is that people are reassessing risk in the marketplace. You know, it's the same thing in the municipal market where what sort of federal support are you going to get on a go forward basis, What programs are they going to cut, what's going to happen to medicate? How's that going to impact a healthcare organization? So for us, it means you got to take down risk, which we had already been doing in our portfolios. Probably take up liquidity in your portfolios to really, from our perspective, provide ammunition for and dry powder to invest when the market gets cheaper, and we're seeing that now.

And it makes a lot of sense that the muni market would feel it worse than others because you need that federal backing in a lot of situations. And you know, the dose has shown that it could get act.

And it makes a lot of sense that the muni market would feel it worse than others because you need that federal backing in a lot of situations. And you know, the dose has shown that it could get act.

At a moment's notice.

At a moment's notice.

Where are the biggest dislocations in the market right now?

Where are the biggest dislocations in the market right now?

Again, it's interesting what happens in our market is the high grade part of the market actually reacts first, so you know, because things trade and so therefore they get remarked in people's portfolios. The high yield sectors actually usually that reaction takes a little bit longer. So whereas in the corporate market you're seeing corporate credit spreads widen, you're seeing you know, structured product widen not a little bit. In our market, actually, higher quality names are actually leading the way as the market has sold off, which again isn't unusual, but again I think it's actually providing an opportunity where you can go out and you know, there were deals priced today. I think with five coupons double A rated that we're pricing out a four and three quarter yield on the long end, which again, yeah, that's pretty attractive for a tax exempt buyer. Again, assuming that tax exemption continues.

Again, it's interesting what happens in our market is the high grade part of the market actually reacts first, so you know, because things trade and so therefore they get remarked in people's portfolios. The high yield sectors actually usually that reaction takes a little bit longer. So whereas in the corporate market you're seeing corporate credit spreads widen, you're seeing you know, structured product widen not a little bit. In our market, actually, higher quality names are actually leading the way as the market has sold off, which again isn't unusual, but again I think it's actually providing an opportunity where you can go out and you know, there were deals priced today. I think with five coupons double A rated that we're pricing out a four and three quarter yield on the long end, which again, yeah, that's pretty attractive for a tax exempt buyer. Again, assuming that tax exemption continues.

I mean, is it a safe assumption, Lele that with what's going on with the US federal government that less money if we continue along this path, is going to be going to states, and they have mandates right often right to they've got to get balance budgets, So somewhere things are going to be cut.

I mean, is it a safe assumption, Lele that with what's going on with the US federal government that less money if we continue along this path, is going to be going to states, and they have mandates right often right to they've got to get balance budgets, So somewhere things are going to be cut.

Yeah, and again I think they were. They're dealing with the reality already that the stimulus money has run out now, so a lot of those were still it was part of their budget last year and potentially this year that they still had some of those funds left over. So many states and local governments didn't necessarily build that into their budget forecasting. They had it built in as if that money was going to continue into perpetuity. So they're dealing with that now. They have to deal with the uncertainty surrounding are they going to get cuts to other federal programs.