This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

Nvidia is off and flying this year. Ian King is US semi conductor and networking reporter at Bloomberg News. He joins us on Zoom from San Francisco. Ian and Video is up another twenty six percent today. It's up about one hundred and sixty four percent so far this year. It's the number one perform in the S and P five hundred this year. We talk about it a lot, especially when it comes to AI. Is the euphoria over Nvidia and its connection to AI justified?

Nvidia is off and flying this year. Ian King is US semi conductor and networking reporter at Bloomberg News. He joins us on Zoom from San Francisco. Ian and Video is up another twenty six percent today. It's up about one hundred and sixty four percent so far this year. It's the number one perform in the S and P five hundred this year. We talk about it a lot, especially when it comes to AI. Is the euphoria over Nvidia and its connection to AI justified?

There are a couple of ways to look at this, and obviously we've had conversations on this over the last few days. And you know, the big question was is anybody actually making money out of AI? We're talking about it, Is anybody making money out of it? Yesterday's announcement showed that this company really is. Valuations that's another question, right We're looking at what one hundred and eighty times current innings. You can decide whether that to represents value for money or output. They are putting up numbers that justify some of the hype. That's certainly true.

There are a couple of ways to look at this, and obviously we've had conversations on this over the last few days. And you know, the big question was is anybody actually making money out of AI? We're talking about it, Is anybody making money out of it? Yesterday's announcement showed that this company really is. Valuations that's another question, right We're looking at what one hundred and eighty times current innings. You can decide whether that to represents value for money or output. They are putting up numbers that justify some of the hype. That's certainly true.

Yeah, so the forward PE is fifty four fifty five, which you know for a normal company would still be very rich valuation. But it's yesterday. This time it was like sixty five, So the e has really come up in terms of you know, what analysts expect. I heard a great stat yesterday ian from some novas that sixty five percent of the chips they sell for server use are used in deep learning, are used in you know, AI generative language models. So it's really about AI, right, It's not just a fad. They haven't just slapped AI on the name. It really is being used the bulk of their product in this new technology.

Yeah, so the forward PE is fifty four fifty five, which you know for a normal company would still be very rich valuation. But it's yesterday. This time it was like sixty five, So the e has really come up in terms of you know, what analysts expect. I heard a great stat yesterday ian from some novas that sixty five percent of the chips they sell for server use are used in deep learning, are used in you know, AI generative language models. So it's really about AI, right, It's not just a fad. They haven't just slapped AI on the name. It really is being used the bulk of their product in this new technology.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you know that there are all kinds of stats floating around at the moment that add to this, and you know they're incredible. Another way to look at it would be I saw another report that said in video currently has north of eighty percent market share in this particular segment. And guess what, during the last three months, one hundred percent of the installs of this type of system. We're on in video system, we're on in video equipment. So it's got a strong market share and it's getting better. And now this is by far the company's largest source of revenue. I mean, you were talking about, well, why would you sell out the stock? Remember last year and this year have been a terrible year for the company's overall innings. It's in the PC business that's horrible. That's why you sold out, not really knowing just how strong this AI search could be. And now we're seeing it.

I mean, you know that there are all kinds of stats floating around at the moment that add to this, and you know they're incredible. Another way to look at it would be I saw another report that said in video currently has north of eighty percent market share in this particular segment. And guess what, during the last three months, one hundred percent of the installs of this type of system. We're on in video system, we're on in video equipment. So it's got a strong market share and it's getting better. And now this is by far the company's largest source of revenue. I mean, you were talking about, well, why would you sell out the stock? Remember last year and this year have been a terrible year for the company's overall innings. It's in the PC business that's horrible. That's why you sold out, not really knowing just how strong this AI search could be. And now we're seeing it.

Well, we don't know, but Kathy Woods supposed to know, right, She's the future guru, you know, she is the one who's making the big bets on these things they're gonna happen later on in life.

Well, we don't know, but Kathy Woods supposed to know, right, She's the future guru, you know, she is the one who's making the big bets on these things they're gonna happen later on in life.

Well, look at it this way, to be fair to her, right, Nvidia gave a projection that was fifty three percent higher than the average analyst estimate here. So so nobody got embarrassed Wall Street. Right, they embarrassed Wall Street, never mind one particular fund manager.

Well, look at it this way, to be fair to her, right, Nvidia gave a projection that was fifty three percent higher than the average analyst estimate here. So so nobody got embarrassed Wall Street. Right, they embarrassed Wall Street, never mind one particular fund manager.

So I guess what I'm wondering is basically this ramp up where Nvidia is benefiting ian is this just as companies are exploring what they can do with AI, this version or this higher you know, learning formula of AI, and they're trying to figure out how they basically benefit. Is that what this is kind of an exploratory phase and that we're not quite yet at the Hey, here's what really works and is going to pay off fees.

So I guess what I'm wondering is basically this ramp up where Nvidia is benefiting ian is this just as companies are exploring what they can do with AI, this version or this higher you know, learning formula of AI, and they're trying to figure out how they basically benefit. Is that what this is kind of an exploratory phase and that we're not quite yet at the Hey, here's what really works and is going to pay off fees.

No, I think you're picking it as something which is really important and something which was a major topic on the conference call that they did yesterday, and that was like, look, hey, you're selling to Microsoft, you're selling to Google, you're selling to AWS. That's fantastic, but guess what those guys want to do their own chips and if they're the only customers in town, sooner or later they're going to find somebody else so they won't need you as much. What are you going to do about it? And in really was like, you really haven't been listening to us. We believe that AI is going to be used everywhere, right, and in order for that to happen, here are these products that we've already put out there. They've done software for pharmaceutical, software for all of the you know, for automotive, for all of these different industries that wouldn't have these genius computer scientists who can then buy some of the service or even buy some of invidious products and use AI for themselves. So you know, they at least had an answer to a very very important question about where this all goes.

No, I think you're picking it as something which is really important and something which was a major topic on the conference call that they did yesterday, and that was like, look, hey, you're selling to Microsoft, you're selling to Google, you're selling to AWS. That's fantastic, but guess what those guys want to do their own chips and if they're the only customers in town, sooner or later they're going to find somebody else so they won't need you as much. What are you going to do about it? And in really was like, you really haven't been listening to us. We believe that AI is going to be used everywhere, right, and in order for that to happen, here are these products that we've already put out there. They've done software for pharmaceutical, software for all of the you know, for automotive, for all of these different industries that wouldn't have these genius computer scientists who can then buy some of the service or even buy some of invidious products and use AI for themselves. So you know, they at least had an answer to a very very important question about where this all goes.

They don't and Vidia doesn't need a Microsoft or Google ultimately longer term because they can tap into all these other areas or TVD.

They don't and Vidia doesn't need a Microsoft or Google ultimately longer term because they can tap into all these other areas or TVD.

I mean, it's a it's how do they put it a frenemy relationship right now in Microsoft needs in videos chips. In Vidia has put some of these services it's hoping to sell to these companies in the cloud hosted by Microsoft as you or Amazon a WUS. But down the road and an ideal world in video is going to be selling directly to some of these companies if they can acquire that kind of expertise, or if Nvidia can make it easy enough.

I mean, it's a it's how do they put it a frenemy relationship right now in Microsoft needs in videos chips. In Vidia has put some of these services it's hoping to sell to these companies in the cloud hosted by Microsoft as you or Amazon a WUS. But down the road and an ideal world in video is going to be selling directly to some of these companies if they can acquire that kind of expertise, or if Nvidia can make it easy enough.

You know, Paul Sweeney, who in his former life was an investment banker, his immediate thought goes to taking advantage of this situation. Right if your stock pops like this and you are the it stock, I mean, right now, you want to own Nvidia and you want to tell your friends that you own in Vidia because you're the smart guy who's into AI. That could last a month, it could last three months, maybe it lasts a year, but probably not much longer. Are they going to raise capital? Are they going to buy something with these shares? Because they should really take advantage of this situation.

You know, Paul Sweeney, who in his former life was an investment banker, his immediate thought goes to taking advantage of this situation. Right if your stock pops like this and you are the it stock, I mean, right now, you want to own Nvidia and you want to tell your friends that you own in Vidia because you're the smart guy who's into AI. That could last a month, it could last three months, maybe it lasts a year, but probably not much longer. Are they going to raise capital? Are they going to buy something with these shares? Because they should really take advantage of this situation.

Yeah, I think that's I mean, knowing their CEO and knowing the way that they look at things, that's very much a throwback view of of Silicon Valley and of you know, the way that the markets work. They believe they're a technology company. They believe they have everything in place that they need. As you remember, they did try to buy ARM and regulators around the world said, nope, you're too big, we don't like this. So they've learned that lesson. Why would they go off on something that they're probably not going to get So that's probably the way they're looking at it.

Yeah, I think that's I mean, knowing their CEO and knowing the way that they look at things, that's very much a throwback view of of Silicon Valley and of you know, the way that the markets work. They believe they're a technology company. They believe they have everything in place that they need. As you remember, they did try to buy ARM and regulators around the world said, nope, you're too big, we don't like this. So they've learned that lesson. Why would they go off on something that they're probably not going to get So that's probably the way they're looking at it.

So who competes with them ultimately.

So who competes with them ultimately.

Well, I mean Intel, but investors don't believe them Intel.

Well, I mean Intel, but investors don't believe them Intel.

Just Matt and I you know, Ian going into this, We're like, did you look at Intel's marka cap and did you look at nd videos mark Like it's just hard to get my head around it.

Just Matt and I you know, Ian going into this, We're like, did you look at Intel's marka cap and did you look at nd videos mark Like it's just hard to get my head around it.

No, And it's I mean AMD stock went up today, right because they do similar things. They're nowhere near as far and advanced into this marketers in videos and in theory. Intel is there as well. Intel has been the heart of the data center for you know, twenty thirty years. Investors just aren't buying that they have a way forward here. Even though Pat Gelsinger Intel has been talking about his new products, his accelerators, data center products and all of these things he's going to bring to market, Investors just just don't believe that.

No, And it's I mean AMD stock went up today, right because they do similar things. They're nowhere near as far and advanced into this marketers in videos and in theory. Intel is there as well. Intel has been the heart of the data center for you know, twenty thirty years. Investors just aren't buying that they have a way forward here. Even though Pat Gelsinger Intel has been talking about his new products, his accelerators, data center products and all of these things he's going to bring to market, Investors just just don't believe that.

Right now, Intel is worth less than an eighth an eighth that's crazy of video right and Video's trading right now market cap nine hundred and fifty billion. Intel is one hundred and fifteen million.

Right now, Intel is worth less than an eighth an eighth that's crazy of video right and Video's trading right now market cap nine hundred and fifty billion. Intel is one hundred and fifteen million.

In Vidia added more market cap today than Intel is worth in total.

In Vidia added more market cap today than Intel is worth in total.

Wow, that's a very that's a very strong point.

Wow, that's a very that's a very strong point.

So thirty seconds left here, Come on, and you've been following I know, I asked this all the time because your perspective is really valuable because you've studied this sector for so long. Does that make sense to you?

So thirty seconds left here, Come on, and you've been following I know, I asked this all the time because your perspective is really valuable because you've studied this sector for so long. Does that make sense to you?

I mean, if you believe what Jensen Lang said, which is there are trillion dollars of data central equipment that needs to be replaced right now, they're in the lead as to whether an absolute valuation makes sense in those terms. I don't know.

I mean, if you believe what Jensen Lang said, which is there are trillion dollars of data central equipment that needs to be replaced right now, they're in the lead as to whether an absolute valuation makes sense in those terms. I don't know.

It's just interesting world. We're eleven in Ian, Thank you. I know we go round and round a lot on this, but it seems to be the topic that everybody wants to talk about, either AI and or the chip sector, and you really just put it in such great perspective. Ian King. He is US Semiconductor Networking report at Bloomberg News on zoom from San Francisco. Check out his work on the Bloomberg at Bloomberg dot com and also on Twitter at Ian M.

It's just interesting world. We're eleven in Ian, Thank you. I know we go round and round a lot on this, but it seems to be the topic that everybody wants to talk about, either AI and or the chip sector, and you really just put it in such great perspective. Ian King. He is US Semiconductor Networking report at Bloomberg News on zoom from San Francisco. Check out his work on the Bloomberg at Bloomberg dot com and also on Twitter at Ian M.

King.

King.

Pretty amazing stuff. Huh.

Pretty amazing stuff. Huh.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.

All right, let's get to it, because we want to talk a little bit about the cannabis industry. I don't know, Matt, if you saw there was a Bloomberg News story earlier this month, and you know it talked about cannabis basically facing financial and regulatory malays in the US, but it isn't affecting the perceptions of consumers who increasingly approve of it.

All right, let's get to it, because we want to talk a little bit about the cannabis industry. I don't know, Matt, if you saw there was a Bloomberg News story earlier this month, and you know it talked about cannabis basically facing financial and regulatory malays in the US, but it isn't affecting the perceptions of consumers who increasingly approve of it.

I know, and the sales numbers are very strong. State by state, of course is where we see that. But it's billions and billions of dollars in revenue, and that's runs the gamut from you know, medical use, prescribe medical use to recreational like at a dead show.

I know, and the sales numbers are very strong. State by state, of course is where we see that. But it's billions and billions of dollars in revenue, and that's runs the gamut from you know, medical use, prescribe medical use to recreational like at a dead show.

All right.

All right.

In the meantime, our next guest is in. It also has a personal story around it. We welcome Morgan Paxia, co founder and managing partner of Poseidon Investment Management, keeper of the advisor shares Poseidon.

In the meantime, our next guest is in. It also has a personal story around it. We welcome Morgan Paxia, co founder and managing partner of Poseidon Investment Management, keeper of the advisor shares Poseidon.

Poseidon, Poseidon like king.

Poseidon, Poseidon like king.

I know it's that coming out right, Poseidon ETFs on zoom and here York City. Sorry it's been a rough week, Morgan. Good to have you here with Matt and myself. First of all, tell us about your how you got into all of this because it is a personal story.

I know it's that coming out right, Poseidon ETFs on zoom and here York City. Sorry it's been a rough week, Morgan. Good to have you here with Matt and myself. First of all, tell us about your how you got into all of this because it is a personal story.

It is like so many of us that have gotten into the cannabis industry. Usually starts for a lot of us with a family event. For us, we lost our parents to cancer at a very young age. I was twelve with my dad passed in eighteen. When my mom and I started the business with my sister Emily, just about ten years ago now, but they were both believers in ending the war on drugs. They thought it was you know, unjust and but really what was a clear moment for us was when our dad was in hospice care, a nurse actually offered him some cannabis, just trying to help him find some peace in the final days or just some comfort, you know, being on all those opioids. Wouldn't do it because of the stigma because it was illegal. Didn't want to have any kind of tarnished kind of sentiment back with family or anybody around us. And obviously we've thought that was very wrong. I was young, but as we say, it planted the seed for our future, and so we've been so.

It is like so many of us that have gotten into the cannabis industry. Usually starts for a lot of us with a family event. For us, we lost our parents to cancer at a very young age. I was twelve with my dad passed in eighteen. When my mom and I started the business with my sister Emily, just about ten years ago now, but they were both believers in ending the war on drugs. They thought it was you know, unjust and but really what was a clear moment for us was when our dad was in hospice care, a nurse actually offered him some cannabis, just trying to help him find some peace in the final days or just some comfort, you know, being on all those opioids. Wouldn't do it because of the stigma because it was illegal. Didn't want to have any kind of tarnished kind of sentiment back with family or anybody around us. And obviously we've thought that was very wrong. I was young, but as we say, it planted the seed for our future, and so we've been so.

You are, so you Morgan and your sister Emily. What started this ETF? But how did you get into it? To begin with?

You are, so you Morgan and your sister Emily. What started this ETF? But how did you get into it? To begin with?

Our first fund, we launched in January of twenty fourteen, was it's actually a hedge fund. It still runs today, but we invested in much like a hybrid strategy where we were doing private, early stage investments because everything was private and early back then, but it had the ability to also invest in companies that were public or would become public companies. So it really gave us the full gamut. We launched our ETF in November of twenty twenty one thinking that a lot of the bear market cycle had corrected. We were wrong or early with that, but also waiting patiently for the market to get a little bit more mature before we had a product such as an ETF. But we thought the ETF was a great addition to the Poseidon investment universe where we could have a product that anyone could buy, you know as a hedge fund and our two sub subsequent venture capital funds, those are only eligible for credited investors or institutional like investors versus an ETF anyone can buy.

Our first fund, we launched in January of twenty fourteen, was it's actually a hedge fund. It still runs today, but we invested in much like a hybrid strategy where we were doing private, early stage investments because everything was private and early back then, but it had the ability to also invest in companies that were public or would become public companies. So it really gave us the full gamut. We launched our ETF in November of twenty twenty one thinking that a lot of the bear market cycle had corrected. We were wrong or early with that, but also waiting patiently for the market to get a little bit more mature before we had a product such as an ETF. But we thought the ETF was a great addition to the Poseidon investment universe where we could have a product that anyone could buy, you know as a hedge fund and our two sub subsequent venture capital funds, those are only eligible for credited investors or institutional like investors versus an ETF anyone can buy.

So how do you I look at the price, right, and as you pointed out your early so you came out at ten bucks and it's now down at a dollar fifteen. And if I look at the holdings, you have green thumb, cure a leaf, true, leave, cresco. I mean basically the usual suspects for the most part, right, and they all their stock in charts look the same as your TF.

So how do you I look at the price, right, and as you pointed out your early so you came out at ten bucks and it's now down at a dollar fifteen. And if I look at the holdings, you have green thumb, cure a leaf, true, leave, cresco. I mean basically the usual suspects for the most part, right, and they all their stock in charts look the same as your TF.

What that's right?

What that's right?

What can you do differently than another fund or ETF? That's investing in in marijuana in order to get a little bit of alpha.

What can you do differently than another fund or ETF? That's investing in in marijuana in order to get a little bit of alpha.

Yep, we're unconstrained, so we can invest globally. We can be you know, in Canada or in Europe. Really there's not too much in Europe yet, but it is an unconstrained strategy from a whether or not we're investing in US operators or technology companies. So that's one unique feature. We're not tied to any benchmarks. It's really just at our discretion. And then we also have a dynamic leverage capability, so we can be anywhere from eighty percent, so we can be unlevered, or we can be up to one hundred and fifty percent leverage, and we can dial that up and down. And as is a good example, for the most part of this year, we were atzero point nine five times, but then as some of this safe banking initiative started to come back with regular order in the Senate, there's some other things in the works. We have slowly taken leverage up to one hundred and ten percent, so we're just modestly leveraged today, but believing that there are some potential progress. So we saw regulatory change, but also the fundamentals of the industry have been improving over subsequent quarters, So we like that the fundamental support is there and any kind of regulatory progress would generate some nice upside return. But predominantly focused on good companies. We want to see companies that are have gross margins, have nice evadam margins, have either the ability of generating free cash flow or are already generating free cash flow. And so that's what our portfolio looks like today. Really trying to focus on quality.

Yep, we're unconstrained, so we can invest globally. We can be you know, in Canada or in Europe. Really there's not too much in Europe yet, but it is an unconstrained strategy from a whether or not we're investing in US operators or technology companies. So that's one unique feature. We're not tied to any benchmarks. It's really just at our discretion. And then we also have a dynamic leverage capability, so we can be anywhere from eighty percent, so we can be unlevered, or we can be up to one hundred and fifty percent leverage, and we can dial that up and down. And as is a good example, for the most part of this year, we were atzero point nine five times, but then as some of this safe banking initiative started to come back with regular order in the Senate, there's some other things in the works. We have slowly taken leverage up to one hundred and ten percent, so we're just modestly leveraged today, but believing that there are some potential progress. So we saw regulatory change, but also the fundamentals of the industry have been improving over subsequent quarters, So we like that the fundamental support is there and any kind of regulatory progress would generate some nice upside return. But predominantly focused on good companies. We want to see companies that are have gross margins, have nice evadam margins, have either the ability of generating free cash flow or are already generating free cash flow. And so that's what our portfolio looks like today. Really trying to focus on quality.

Right Morgan, I feel like we've seen a lot of cycles already when it comes to the cannabis sector, to be fair, and is it just a case of the industry really can't get going until the Safe Banking Act is past. I mean, they need to be part of the financial system. It's been the one thing that's really been holding in.

Right Morgan, I feel like we've seen a lot of cycles already when it comes to the cannabis sector, to be fair, and is it just a case of the industry really can't get going until the Safe Banking Act is past. I mean, they need to be part of the financial system. It's been the one thing that's really been holding in.

And explain to us, if you could the you know, to the Secure and Fair Enforcement Banking Act, what is that going to allow you to do.

And explain to us, if you could the you know, to the Secure and Fair Enforcement Banking Act, what is that going to allow you to do.

Well?

Well?

The way we look at it is it's first and foremost, it's helping small business in cannabis. It's providing safety to communities. We are largely a cash based industry, so if you're a retailer, you have a lot of cash in your store. That's that's trouble, right, and we've seen a significant increase in crime around that because there are people being advantageous.

The way we look at it is it's first and foremost, it's helping small business in cannabis. It's providing safety to communities. We are largely a cash based industry, so if you're a retailer, you have a lot of cash in your store. That's that's trouble, right, and we've seen a significant increase in crime around that because there are people being advantageous.

So that's in banks, right.

So that's in banks, right.

You sort of CANBA is very limited, so safe WUL help recognize that we are on the same playing field as every other industry with the ability to deposit. Why you're working lines of capital, so that will help. And also if we do get capital markets included, which is being discussed, and the minority groups are actually supporting this understanding that if you're going to have a federal reformer on banking, it should be all of banking, and we think that's that's actually a really smart way to think about it. We support that as well.

You sort of CANBA is very limited, so safe WUL help recognize that we are on the same playing field as every other industry with the ability to deposit. Why you're working lines of capital, so that will help. And also if we do get capital markets included, which is being discussed, and the minority groups are actually supporting this understanding that if you're going to have a federal reformer on banking, it should be all of banking, and we think that's that's actually a really smart way to think about it. We support that as well.

We know the.

We know the.

Exchanges believe that too, and to your point that we think that will help move money again in this space, it's it's largely slowed down considerably. Custody is very hard, so banking reform is needed and that's how DC functions. You know that the industries move forehead and now we're looking to DC to catch up with us on this.

Exchanges believe that too, and to your point that we think that will help move money again in this space, it's it's largely slowed down considerably. Custody is very hard, so banking reform is needed and that's how DC functions. You know that the industries move forehead and now we're looking to DC to catch up with us on this.

This first up, I mean, what what is your expectation for the safe right now, I mean, and the problem is it doesn't function right. So what's your expectation, Morgan for Congress to actually move on this legislation.

This first up, I mean, what what is your expectation for the safe right now, I mean, and the problem is it doesn't function right. So what's your expectation, Morgan for Congress to actually move on this legislation.

It's actually looking like the scent it could get this done as long as safe stays in a pretty targeted way. From a banking reform perspective, it sounds like we have Democrat and Republican support and that's why it's going through this regular order process and we think we could potentially see a vote as early as July. Then we have to move onto the House, which has passed seven times in the past, but we'll have to go through that process again. So that is helpful. But in the interim, we are seeing structures like one of the companies, Terrace End, is potentially listing on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Now we might be seeing a structure that might actually be blessed by the NASDAK waiting on SEC. So if we're able to get access to the exchanges even without or while we are waiting for safe banking, that's progress. And our industry is finally done being stuck from a capital perspective and very happy to see that action is moving again and so capital will start to flow as a result of that.

It's actually looking like the scent it could get this done as long as safe stays in a pretty targeted way. From a banking reform perspective, it sounds like we have Democrat and Republican support and that's why it's going through this regular order process and we think we could potentially see a vote as early as July. Then we have to move onto the House, which has passed seven times in the past, but we'll have to go through that process again. So that is helpful. But in the interim, we are seeing structures like one of the companies, Terrace End, is potentially listing on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Now we might be seeing a structure that might actually be blessed by the NASDAK waiting on SEC. So if we're able to get access to the exchanges even without or while we are waiting for safe banking, that's progress. And our industry is finally done being stuck from a capital perspective and very happy to see that action is moving again and so capital will start to flow as a result of that.

All right, Morgan, thanks very much for joining us. Morgan Paxia there from Poseidon Asset Management. The ETF is the Act Advisor Shares Posidon Dynamic Cannabis ETF and the ticker is PSDN.

All right, Morgan, thanks very much for joining us. Morgan Paxia there from Poseidon Asset Management. The ETF is the Act Advisor Shares Posidon Dynamic Cannabis ETF and the ticker is PSDN.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Bloomberg News reporting earlier this year how the fitness sector has roared back after being devastated by the pandemic. Cost pressures though, and a possible recession could possibly pose a threat. So we thought we'd take a look man at the industry, and we've got someone who's actually spent more than twenty years managing, owning, and franchising health clubs, Chuck Runyon, his co founder and CEO at Anytime Fitness, a franchiser of gyms, joining us on Zoom from Woodbury, Minnesota. Check also the CEO and co founder of Self Esteem Brands, which is the owner of Anytime Fitness and also the bar Method and more so he's certainly well versed in this space. Hey, Chuck, nice to have you here with Matt and myself. Talk to a little bit more about Anytime Fitness, how it all works, and the type of growth you've seen, particularly post pandemic.

Bloomberg News reporting earlier this year how the fitness sector has roared back after being devastated by the pandemic. Cost pressures though, and a possible recession could possibly pose a threat. So we thought we'd take a look man at the industry, and we've got someone who's actually spent more than twenty years managing, owning, and franchising health clubs, Chuck Runyon, his co founder and CEO at Anytime Fitness, a franchiser of gyms, joining us on Zoom from Woodbury, Minnesota. Check also the CEO and co founder of Self Esteem Brands, which is the owner of Anytime Fitness and also the bar Method and more so he's certainly well versed in this space. Hey, Chuck, nice to have you here with Matt and myself. Talk to a little bit more about Anytime Fitness, how it all works, and the type of growth you've seen, particularly post pandemic.

Yes, Carol, Matt, thank you for having me from this beautiful day in Minnesota.

Yes, Carol, Matt, thank you for having me from this beautiful day in Minnesota.

Excited to be here.

Excited to be here.

My partner and I started Anytime Fitness just over twenty years ago.

My partner and I started Anytime Fitness just over twenty years ago.

We started in Minnesota.

We started in Minnesota.

But today we serve over fifty five hundred communities in forty countries around the world. And our goal has always been to make fitness more affordable, more accessible, and more effective, and we utilize technology to do that so members could work out on their schedule, not the gym schedule. That technology is still in place today, and when you buy membership at your local club, to say in Minnesota, you get to use every club in the network. So we are still infused with technology. And now recently we've just launched our coaching suite, which is providing people with education motivation anytime, anywhere, whether they're in one of our gymder studios, or wherever in the world they live. We can now reach them right, help them be healthier, help them eat better, coach them to a better lifestyle. And so we're very excited and you know, tremendous growth ahead. We are on a pathway to have ten thousand units by twenty thirty.

But today we serve over fifty five hundred communities in forty countries around the world. And our goal has always been to make fitness more affordable, more accessible, and more effective, and we utilize technology to do that so members could work out on their schedule, not the gym schedule. That technology is still in place today, and when you buy membership at your local club, to say in Minnesota, you get to use every club in the network. So we are still infused with technology. And now recently we've just launched our coaching suite, which is providing people with education motivation anytime, anywhere, whether they're in one of our gymder studios, or wherever in the world they live. We can now reach them right, help them be healthier, help them eat better, coach them to a better lifestyle. And so we're very excited and you know, tremendous growth ahead. We are on a pathway to have ten thousand units by twenty thirty.

So do you have You know a lot of people, myself included, have joined gyms and then like they'll go a few times and then never go again, and every you know, a couple of years, I'll join another one and do it again, do it all over again. But I wish I could stick with it. How do you motivate someone like that?

So do you have You know a lot of people, myself included, have joined gyms and then like they'll go a few times and then never go again, and every you know, a couple of years, I'll join another one and do it again, do it all over again. But I wish I could stick with it. How do you motivate someone like that?

It's a great question and something that has been going on in our industry since day one, and you know, it comes down to a handful. Then, first of all, personalization. You know, it really helps with understanding our members where they're at in their life journey and where they want to get to.

It's a great question and something that has been going on in our industry since day one, and you know, it comes down to a handful. Then, first of all, personalization. You know, it really helps with understanding our members where they're at in their life journey and where they want to get to.

And once we do that, we can now not only.

And once we do that, we can now not only.

Give them the workout necessary, but give them the coaching, give them the motivation, give them the education that matters to them, and serve them up to type of content that they want to see. And so we're just in this for a series of small wins, if we can help our members just achieve some small wins, some progress along the way. Right, when members see progress and experience it, they stick with their membership longer and they reach their fitness goals. When, like you said before, if they don't get that extra help but they don't feel that level of personalization, they start to drift away. They leave the industry, maybe to come back a few years later.

Give them the workout necessary, but give them the coaching, give them the motivation, give them the education that matters to them, and serve them up to type of content that they want to see. And so we're just in this for a series of small wins, if we can help our members just achieve some small wins, some progress along the way. Right, when members see progress and experience it, they stick with their membership longer and they reach their fitness goals. When, like you said before, if they don't get that extra help but they don't feel that level of personalization, they start to drift away. They leave the industry, maybe to come back a few years later.

So everything we do is.

So everything we do is.

About how do we help our members achieve progress? Right, our members' health is at the center of everything we build here.

About how do we help our members achieve progress? Right, our members' health is at the center of everything we build here.

You guys, though, believe that basically the government right should be what mandating fitness give them a sh.

You guys, though, believe that basically the government right should be what mandating fitness give them a sh.

Let's get to that. That would be good.

Let's get to that. That would be good.

Let's get a little bit into how you're thinking about this.

Let's get a little bit into how you're thinking about this.

Yeah, well, let's zoom out again from our industry.

Yeah, well, let's zoom out again from our industry.

And you know, right now, globally we spend a trillion dollars a year on healthcare, and seventy percent of us spend is preventable based on something we call lifestyle medicine. Lifestyle medicine is proper eating, regular exercise, and better sleep and recovery. And so who better to deliver that than gym's or studios located in communities around the country, and so we were so disappointed that during COVID, health experts and policymakers around the world forced studios and gyms to shut down, which is the exact opposite message we should have, especially as as we saw that COVID attacked people with underlying health conditions, they had it the worst.

And you know, right now, globally we spend a trillion dollars a year on healthcare, and seventy percent of us spend is preventable based on something we call lifestyle medicine. Lifestyle medicine is proper eating, regular exercise, and better sleep and recovery. And so who better to deliver that than gym's or studios located in communities around the country, and so we were so disappointed that during COVID, health experts and policymakers around the world forced studios and gyms to shut down, which is the exact opposite message we should have, especially as as we saw that COVID attacked people with underlying health conditions, they had it the worst.

And so now, to be fair, to be fair, we didn't quite know how COVID was transmitted or how infectious it was, right, so as we found our way like it just made sense to shut it down. Initially, well, well, I would argue there that there is empirical evidence.

And so now, to be fair, to be fair, we didn't quite know how COVID was transmitted or how infectious it was, right, so as we found our way like it just made sense to shut it down. Initially, well, well, I would argue there that there is empirical evidence.

There is empirical evidence linking physical activity towards mental health and social well being. And guess what, our industry was working with lawmakers to say, we can social distance people inside of our clubs and studios. We can only allow a certain amount of people in at certain times. We were trying to work with them to say, look, fitness is essential, and if it's outside the club or inside a club or studio, the message should be let's keep people moving, let's keep them healthy during COVID, because now what's accelerated is we have issues of mental health.

There is empirical evidence linking physical activity towards mental health and social well being. And guess what, our industry was working with lawmakers to say, we can social distance people inside of our clubs and studios. We can only allow a certain amount of people in at certain times. We were trying to work with them to say, look, fitness is essential, and if it's outside the club or inside a club or studio, the message should be let's keep people moving, let's keep them healthy during COVID, because now what's accelerated is we have issues of mental health.

We have issues where people have been inactive.

We have issues where people have been inactive.

We have, we have issues of loneliness, right, we have issues of weight gain and right now cardiovascer disease and type two diabetes and obesity are the number one killer globally.

We have, we have issues of loneliness, right, we have issues of weight gain and right now cardiovascer disease and type two diabetes and obesity are the number one killer globally.

We have a big country, so hold on.

We have a big country, so hold on.

None of us are disputing these numbers and no doubt about it. But this whole idea of government mandating fitness and wellness, I'm not saying.

None of us are disputing these numbers and no doubt about it. But this whole idea of government mandating fitness and wellness, I'm not saying.

I just it's not that they're mandated. He's not saying they should mandate fitness wellness. He's saying they should consider it essential so that they wouldn't close it down in case of a pandemic.

I just it's not that they're mandated. He's not saying they should mandate fitness wellness. He's saying they should consider it essential so that they wouldn't close it down in case of a pandemic.

And I would not use the word mandating. But think about this, what health health expert to be heard like really say get behind, move more, eat better, sleep better. It was all about like avoiding a virus, but our real virus is inactivity. Right at the end of the day, we have we lose hundreds of thousands of people a year to preventable diseases that if they were just live healthier lifestyles, right, we could not only save money, but save lives.

And I would not use the word mandating. But think about this, what health health expert to be heard like really say get behind, move more, eat better, sleep better. It was all about like avoiding a virus, but our real virus is inactivity. Right at the end of the day, we have we lose hundreds of thousands of people a year to preventable diseases that if they were just live healthier lifestyles, right, we could not only save money, but save lives.

And so that should be the.

And so that should be the.

Message coming out of COVID is how do we get people healthier, And there's no better industry to deliver that than our gyms and studios. And so we're trying to educate policymakers and lawmakers to help with that.

Message coming out of COVID is how do we get people healthier, And there's no better industry to deliver that than our gyms and studios. And so we're trying to educate policymakers and lawmakers to help with that.

I mean, hopefully we'll never get back to a pandemic where we shut down. I think I hope the government has learned lessons about these draconian procedures. But one thing we can do, Chuck, is encourage kids to be more active. When I was a child, and I'm Carol, I'm sure as well, we have exactly President Eisenhower, and it was like a big deal when I was a kid, And I think that kids today, for some reason in this like snowflake generation, they're allowed to skip gym class because it hurts their feelings. Like, don't we have to change that?

I mean, hopefully we'll never get back to a pandemic where we shut down. I think I hope the government has learned lessons about these draconian procedures. But one thing we can do, Chuck, is encourage kids to be more active. When I was a child, and I'm Carol, I'm sure as well, we have exactly President Eisenhower, and it was like a big deal when I was a kid, And I think that kids today, for some reason in this like snowflake generation, they're allowed to skip gym class because it hurts their feelings. Like, don't we have to change that?

We do.

We do.

In fact, if you look at most school budgets around the country, fy, it is being cut and so there's less and less activity in our kids' lives. And technology is also playing a role to have our kids be more said, so, we absolutely, with both adults and children, need to create awareness and incentives and policies to shape the health of this country and the health of global.

In fact, if you look at most school budgets around the country, fy, it is being cut and so there's less and less activity in our kids' lives. And technology is also playing a role to have our kids be more said, so, we absolutely, with both adults and children, need to create awareness and incentives and policies to shape the health of this country and the health of global.

Well, don't you think technology though, ultimately with an Apple Watch and different things that are kind of getting us to a point where we're more aware of our fitness or lack thereof, and just kind about twenty five seconds real quick.

Well, don't you think technology though, ultimately with an Apple Watch and different things that are kind of getting us to a point where we're more aware of our fitness or lack thereof, and just kind about twenty five seconds real quick.

I think that the opportunity is there. We absolutely can enable technology for more activity, but it's also like having us be sedentary right where we're sitting and having too much screen time, So it's both a strength.

I think that the opportunity is there. We absolutely can enable technology for more activity, but it's also like having us be sedentary right where we're sitting and having too much screen time, So it's both a strength.

No, but I'm saying, like if I got to watch, Matt's gonna watch like you count your steps, these things are potentially good. We'll continue this conversation at another date. Tell with you, Chuck.

No, but I'm saying, like if I got to watch, Matt's gonna watch like you count your steps, these things are potentially good. We'll continue this conversation at another date. Tell with you, Chuck.

No, I'm all for wellness and fitness.

No, I'm all for wellness and fitness.

You know that co founder or CEO of Anytime Fitness joining us from Minnesota.

You know that co founder or CEO of Anytime Fitness joining us from Minnesota.

This is Blueberg.

This is Blueberg.

The Journal.

The Journal.

Now about you?

Now about you?

Let me drive?

Let me drive?

Oh no, no, no, no, honey, please, I'll do the gravels. Let's wat I want to try.

Oh no, no, no, no, honey, please, I'll do the gravels. Let's wat I want to try.

It's a good question.

It's a good question.

This is the drive to the clothes dot Com for me. Think well on Bluemberg Radio.

This is the drive to the clothes dot Com for me. Think well on Bluemberg Radio.

All right, everybody, we've got about eighteen minutes eleven today's trading session. What did you do when I was in here?

All right, everybody, we've got about eighteen minutes eleven today's trading session. What did you do when I was in here?

Do you do this.

Do you do this.

Yeah, I hung out with Paul Sweeney, but neither of us knows how to run the show, so it was a little bit of a calamity. We're glad you're back.

Yeah, I hung out with Paul Sweeney, but neither of us knows how to run the show, so it was a little bit of a calamity. We're glad you're back.

I'm glad to be back, all right, So let's get to it. It is time for our drive to the Clothes and our guests on this what is it Thursday? Yeah, Lauren San Philippo, director and senior investment strategy analyst for the Chief Investment Office at Bank of America. She is joining us on the phone in New York City. Lauren, Good to have you here. There's a lot of stuff going on. First of all, how do you guys think about the craze in AI right now and how investible is it?

I'm glad to be back, all right, So let's get to it. It is time for our drive to the Clothes and our guests on this what is it Thursday? Yeah, Lauren San Philippo, director and senior investment strategy analyst for the Chief Investment Office at Bank of America. She is joining us on the phone in New York City. Lauren, Good to have you here. There's a lot of stuff going on. First of all, how do you guys think about the craze in AI right now and how investible is it?

Yeah? I think it's been pretty interesting to see this play out, just in terms of some of our somatic ideas, these longer term things that are playing out now in the markets, and sort of that megacap surge. It's been well discussed on your program, but we're still sort of in this trading pattern of the top of the market, those top five stocks that are accounting for the majority of that S and P game year to date, and obviously those valuations have obviously been running up along the way, but those megacap names, and it's following this AI sort of euphoric surge in the market. It's sort of what's moving the index. And I don't think you need to read too much into this narrowness of the market. But we'll see how that AI story plays out as it pertains to productivity and for you right now, we do think it's also an up and quality story that's really important to us here to date. So we think those companies that are following the AI craze, it's they're still exhibiting those tech balance sheets, are pretty healthy and they proved their earnings power through the Q on earnings reports.

Yeah? I think it's been pretty interesting to see this play out, just in terms of some of our somatic ideas, these longer term things that are playing out now in the markets, and sort of that megacap surge. It's been well discussed on your program, but we're still sort of in this trading pattern of the top of the market, those top five stocks that are accounting for the majority of that S and P game year to date, and obviously those valuations have obviously been running up along the way, but those megacap names, and it's following this AI sort of euphoric surge in the market. It's sort of what's moving the index. And I don't think you need to read too much into this narrowness of the market. But we'll see how that AI story plays out as it pertains to productivity and for you right now, we do think it's also an up and quality story that's really important to us here to date. So we think those companies that are following the AI craze, it's they're still exhibiting those tech balance sheets, are pretty healthy and they proved their earnings power through the Q on earnings reports.

You say we shouldn't pay too much attention to the narrowness, to the lack of breadth. Why is that?

You say we shouldn't pay too much attention to the narrowness, to the lack of breadth. Why is that?

Yeah, so I think, you know, in most cases it could indicate that, you know, we'd prefer to see a broader rally, of course that would be the preference. But I think you know, some of these some of these companies will grow into the valuations as it can be attributed to the AI craze and other reasons why the index is moving now.

Yeah, so I think, you know, in most cases it could indicate that, you know, we'd prefer to see a broader rally, of course that would be the preference. But I think you know, some of these some of these companies will grow into the valuations as it can be attributed to the AI craze and other reasons why the index is moving now.

Lauren, that sounds very similar to the kind of things that Carol and I were hearing in nineteen ninety nine, and that's the last time we had such narrowness in this market. I mean, there's no breadth. If you look at the equal weighted S and P we're down yere to date. So it's got to be concerning at some levels.

Lauren, that sounds very similar to the kind of things that Carol and I were hearing in nineteen ninety nine, and that's the last time we had such narrowness in this market. I mean, there's no breadth. If you look at the equal weighted S and P we're down yere to date. So it's got to be concerning at some levels.

Or does it just mean there's more opportunity for the rest of the market to come on in.

Or does it just mean there's more opportunity for the rest of the market to come on in.

Yeah, I think this is part of sort of that earnings reset that's still in front of us, and then that will include probably coming coming out the other side, will include a broader rally, broader participation. But really until then, Yeah, the other names are in participation purgatory.

Yeah, I think this is part of sort of that earnings reset that's still in front of us, and then that will include probably coming coming out the other side, will include a broader rally, broader participation. But really until then, Yeah, the other names are in participation purgatory.

Right, So is this part of the reason that you well Sevida at Bank America. Your strategists have raised your target. You're now looking at forty three hundred for the year end and you were only looking at four thousand previously.

Right, So is this part of the reason that you well Sevida at Bank America. Your strategists have raised your target. You're now looking at forty three hundred for the year end and you were only looking at four thousand previously.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean I think this is attributable to to the largely better than fear first quarter earnings. I think the path forward maybe next quarter it brings a trough in earnings the UPco coming second quarter reporting season. I think we're in the sick of that earnings recession though that I was talking about, and then we see those efficiencies for corporate America sort of reset.

I mean I think this is attributable to to the largely better than fear first quarter earnings. I think the path forward maybe next quarter it brings a trough in earnings the UPco coming second quarter reporting season. I think we're in the sick of that earnings recession though that I was talking about, and then we see those efficiencies for corporate America sort of reset.

Are we in an earnings recession you're saying, or because I know we've talked with our Gena Martin Adams a lot about it and she said it's already happened.

Are we in an earnings recession you're saying, or because I know we've talked with our Gena Martin Adams a lot about it and she said it's already happened.

Yeah, that's correct. So we did hit the second quarter of that negative earnings report, and you know Sevida penciling in now the second quarter also negative, the third quarter also negative. So we're sort of in the thick of it, that's right.

Yeah, that's correct. So we did hit the second quarter of that negative earnings report, and you know Sevida penciling in now the second quarter also negative, the third quarter also negative. So we're sort of in the thick of it, that's right.

So what kind of recovery do you expect in terms of earnings and what's going to drive that? Is it all going to come from AI?

So what kind of recovery do you expect in terms of earnings and what's going to drive that? Is it all going to come from AI?

No, so it's not going to all come from AI. I do think that sort of tech took it on the chin last year, right, So they've already been working on sort of making those efficiency cost cutting tech sort of already been in this. I think the rest of the market sort of gets pulled along here.

No, so it's not going to all come from AI. I do think that sort of tech took it on the chin last year, right, So they've already been working on sort of making those efficiency cost cutting tech sort of already been in this. I think the rest of the market sort of gets pulled along here.

So uppy, pessimistic, optimistic? What are you in terms of the financial markets right now?

So uppy, pessimistic, optimistic? What are you in terms of the financial markets right now?

Yeah, I think I'm more positive after seeing first quarter play out in terms of earnings. But you know, I think if you then segment the actual economy, right, we've seen that leading economic indicator, it's now confirmed that you know, it drops for the thirteenth consecutive months. So the worst of this slow down, if it materializes into a recession, it's actually in front of us. So our economists are calling for that recession beginning in two three of this year. So I think, you know, somewhere in the throws here we've gotten more positive, yes, but that growth slow down still in front of us, and that earnings recession is still the majority of it's still in front of us as well.

Yeah, I think I'm more positive after seeing first quarter play out in terms of earnings. But you know, I think if you then segment the actual economy, right, we've seen that leading economic indicator, it's now confirmed that you know, it drops for the thirteenth consecutive months. So the worst of this slow down, if it materializes into a recession, it's actually in front of us. So our economists are calling for that recession beginning in two three of this year. So I think, you know, somewhere in the throws here we've gotten more positive, yes, but that growth slow down still in front of us, and that earnings recession is still the majority of it's still in front of us as well.

So what do you expect the FED to do? And how important is you know, J. Powell's decision on rates going forward?

So what do you expect the FED to do? And how important is you know, J. Powell's decision on rates going forward?

Yeah, I mean, is it a pause, is it a skipp It's almost like a weird game of Uno, And there's a lot of terms being thrown out there, and what they decide to do at the June meeting. I think by the time the FED puts all the pieces together, staying data dependent, you know, our view is the June meeting will bring a pause. Maybe that's we already saw the last hike to the Fed's interest rate hiking cycle. It was in May, and market expectations so for sort of been bouncing around here. At one point cuts were expected for June, and those cuts are now being pushed out to later in the year, and we're more of the mindset that cuts aren't a story until next year. It would be more typical anyway to see that sort of pause, that length of pause. I think the average is around ten months between the last rate hike and the first cut of the cycle. So as is typical, we expect to sort of hold that pause for some time.

Yeah, I mean, is it a pause, is it a skipp It's almost like a weird game of Uno, And there's a lot of terms being thrown out there, and what they decide to do at the June meeting. I think by the time the FED puts all the pieces together, staying data dependent, you know, our view is the June meeting will bring a pause. Maybe that's we already saw the last hike to the Fed's interest rate hiking cycle. It was in May, and market expectations so for sort of been bouncing around here. At one point cuts were expected for June, and those cuts are now being pushed out to later in the year, and we're more of the mindset that cuts aren't a story until next year. It would be more typical anyway to see that sort of pause, that length of pause. I think the average is around ten months between the last rate hike and the first cut of the cycle. So as is typical, we expect to sort of hold that pause for some time.

Hey, Lauren, just last question. I mean when you guys, when you're getting together with your team and just talking about the markets and what's going on, what is the thing you guys spend the most time talking about. Is it valuations? Is it FED policy? Is it action now or lack thereof out of DC?

Hey, Lauren, just last question. I mean when you guys, when you're getting together with your team and just talking about the markets and what's going on, what is the thing you guys spend the most time talking about. Is it valuations? Is it FED policy? Is it action now or lack thereof out of DC?

What is it?

What is it?

Yeah, I think it's so actually a mixture of all those things right now. But it's also about investment areas. Right, how we came into the year hedging for the recession and now we have to think about the pivot forward, right, So like where are there investible sleeves in the market, And you know, we're we've been to defense positioned. But you know, with so much money on the sidelines, I caution the market is up what seventy percent for the year, and we're just focusing on staying invested and staying diversified.

Yeah, I think it's so actually a mixture of all those things right now. But it's also about investment areas. Right, how we came into the year hedging for the recession and now we have to think about the pivot forward, right, So like where are there investible sleeves in the market, And you know, we're we've been to defense positioned. But you know, with so much money on the sidelines, I caution the market is up what seventy percent for the year, and we're just focusing on staying invested and staying diversified.

Where's all the money in the sidelines? Money market funds?

Where's all the money in the sidelines? Money market funds?

Yeah, that's a lot of money, right, A lot of money committed to money market funds this year. And you know, yeah, we're just looking for opportunities to put money to work.

Yeah, that's a lot of money, right, A lot of money committed to money market funds this year. And you know, yeah, we're just looking for opportunities to put money to work.

That's interesting.

That's interesting.

So what's everybody comes back in?

So what's everybody comes back in?

Huh?

Huh?

Lauren?

Lauren?

Thanks so much. Lauren San Philippo, Director and Senior Investment Strategy Analyst for the Chief Investment Office every Bank of America.

Thanks so much. Lauren San Philippo, Director and Senior Investment Strategy Analyst for the Chief Investment Office every Bank of America.

On the phone.

On the phone.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Journal alone.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Journal alone.