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This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus gloom O Business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

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Fascinating one.

Fascinating one.

If you sit at waked, I'm.

If you sit at waked, I'm.

Going when to Miami.

Going when to Miami.

Welcome to my body, and I don't if he stood a break it down, Welcome to.

Welcome to my body, and I don't if he stood a break it down, Welcome to.

Me to Miami.

Me to Miami.

That is uh, what Ken Griffin is like is likely to say to everyone out there. Ken Griffin, of course, a hedge fund billionaire. He was speaking with Arshenali Bask at the Citadel Securities Global Macro Conference in Miami.

That is uh, what Ken Griffin is like is likely to say to everyone out there. Ken Griffin, of course, a hedge fund billionaire. He was speaking with Arshenali Bask at the Citadel Securities Global Macro Conference in Miami.

Take a listen to what he said.

Take a listen to what he said.

New York is the financial capital of America today and it's New York's to lose. Having said that, Miami I think represents the future of America.

New York is the financial capital of America today and it's New York's to lose. Having said that, Miami I think represents the future of America.

So he's referring to Wall Street, South Bailey, the idea that South Florida's the up and coming financial center. Uh, they've been promoting this idea for years. It's definitely gained some traction since the pandemic.

So he's referring to Wall Street, South Bailey, the idea that South Florida's the up and coming financial center. Uh, they've been promoting this idea for years. It's definitely gained some traction since the pandemic.

Yeah, we saw a lot of people wanting more tax friendly states. Obviously, it's easy to talk your book when you're someone who's made the move down there. So it does out and interesting that he said it's where the future is and they're trying to court more and more. I know a number of traders that did move down and so far I haven't complained, but I tell them often.

Yeah, we saw a lot of people wanting more tax friendly states. Obviously, it's easy to talk your book when you're someone who's made the move down there. So it does out and interesting that he said it's where the future is and they're trying to court more and more. I know a number of traders that did move down and so far I haven't complained, but I tell them often.

Let's talk more in August.

Let's talk more in August.

All right, Well, let's bring in Jonathan Levin. He is a market's columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. He is based in Miami and Jonathan you've lived in Miami for a while, have you talked to the finance guys who've made their way down.

All right, Well, let's bring in Jonathan Levin. He is a market's columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. He is based in Miami and Jonathan you've lived in Miami for a while, have you talked to the finance guys who've made their way down.

What are they saying?

What are they saying?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Absolutely? I mean, look, first, starters, if you're coming from New York City, you get here and you immediately say, hey, this is a pretty good deal.

Absolutely? I mean, look, first, starters, if you're coming from New York City, you get here and you immediately say, hey, this is a pretty good deal.

Right.

Right.

I don't have to deal with Northeast winters for starters, I'm not paying a state income tax. And while Miami has gotten to be a pretty pricey place, especially recently, it's still less expensive, let's face it, than you know, trying to live in Manhattan or even San Francisco. Right, So you get here and you get this sense of like euphoria for the first of months, maybe even the first few years that people get here.

I don't have to deal with Northeast winters for starters, I'm not paying a state income tax. And while Miami has gotten to be a pretty pricey place, especially recently, it's still less expensive, let's face it, than you know, trying to live in Manhattan or even San Francisco. Right, So you get here and you get this sense of like euphoria for the first of months, maybe even the first few years that people get here.

Yeah, and I'm more interested in kind of what those steps look like though, for it to look more like in New York and actually be this future hub that Ken Griffin and many others enjoy talking about.

Yeah, and I'm more interested in kind of what those steps look like though, for it to look more like in New York and actually be this future hub that Ken Griffin and many others enjoy talking about.

Sure.

Sure.

Absolutely. So put in my column today is that, you know, Miami really needs to develop into a more mature place if it is going to really compete with these major financial centers. Right, So, for starters, we are a car town. You can't get anywhere without a car. In South Florida, we do not really have a viable public transit system. It's nothing like New York in that regard. Right, So, you know, forty years ago they put up this metro rail. It basically only works for like three or four percent of the population. It's just not a very comprehensive public transit system. And so, you know, one of my big recommendations in my column today is if you really want to compete and have a future as Wall Streets South, you have to do something about that. You have to do something about this traffic that is just getting worse and worse. And you know, it's a huge undertaking to say, you know, let's go out there and build this massive new rail system. I don't think that that's practical. I don't think that that's going to happen. But as development officials look at the future, they have to be looking at creating more walkable neighborhoods going forward, and maybe even you know, doing something with Miami's water you know, where are the furry is, where are the water taxis? Anything to get people out of those cars.

Absolutely. So put in my column today is that, you know, Miami really needs to develop into a more mature place if it is going to really compete with these major financial centers. Right, So, for starters, we are a car town. You can't get anywhere without a car. In South Florida, we do not really have a viable public transit system. It's nothing like New York in that regard. Right, So, you know, forty years ago they put up this metro rail. It basically only works for like three or four percent of the population. It's just not a very comprehensive public transit system. And so, you know, one of my big recommendations in my column today is if you really want to compete and have a future as Wall Streets South, you have to do something about that. You have to do something about this traffic that is just getting worse and worse. And you know, it's a huge undertaking to say, you know, let's go out there and build this massive new rail system. I don't think that that's practical. I don't think that that's going to happen. But as development officials look at the future, they have to be looking at creating more walkable neighborhoods going forward, and maybe even you know, doing something with Miami's water you know, where are the furry is, where are the water taxis? Anything to get people out of those cars.

I love that idea, and that would make it really picturesque and just give it a new character. Speaking of water, Jonathan, the area is highly prone to flooding, and of course it's in a hurricane zone as well. So climate resiliency is obviously a really big issue. You from what you've seen as South Florida's local governments doing enough what words should they be doing?

I love that idea, and that would make it really picturesque and just give it a new character. Speaking of water, Jonathan, the area is highly prone to flooding, and of course it's in a hurricane zone as well. So climate resiliency is obviously a really big issue. You from what you've seen as South Florida's local governments doing enough what words should they be doing?

Yeah, it's huge. I mean, if you talk about really bringing in serious, serious businesses like another Citadel, you have to give them the confidence that you know, if they're investing for the future, their their investments are going to pay off over decades and nobody wants to think about the possibility that the lobby of their beautiful new building is going to be flooding on a regular basis.

Yeah, it's huge. I mean, if you talk about really bringing in serious, serious businesses like another Citadel, you have to give them the confidence that you know, if they're investing for the future, their their investments are going to pay off over decades and nobody wants to think about the possibility that the lobby of their beautiful new building is going to be flooding on a regular basis.

Right.

Right.

So, I've seen some of these governments making the right overtures. You know, City of Miami did a big climate resiliency bond some time ago. They're making sort of investments and pumps and these sorts of things. The point I make is you've just got to do more and more of it. Investing for the long term is really about elevate, elevate, elevate with that infrastructure, and on the private side also got to be out there and putting in the most rigorous codes possible, so that private businesses and private homes are essentially turning themselves into bunkers for the future climate challenges that sort of inevitably this region is going to face.

So, I've seen some of these governments making the right overtures. You know, City of Miami did a big climate resiliency bond some time ago. They're making sort of investments and pumps and these sorts of things. The point I make is you've just got to do more and more of it. Investing for the long term is really about elevate, elevate, elevate with that infrastructure, and on the private side also got to be out there and putting in the most rigorous codes possible, so that private businesses and private homes are essentially turning themselves into bunkers for the future climate challenges that sort of inevitably this region is going to face.

And one of the things I'm reminded of a story back in September about the cost to ensure homes is that something Jonathan that comes up and is being considered just given the cost of living can be cheaper in some regards, but if you're spending much higher premium to ensure your house or your car, does that balance out?

And one of the things I'm reminded of a story back in September about the cost to ensure homes is that something Jonathan that comes up and is being considered just given the cost of living can be cheaper in some regards, but if you're spending much higher premium to ensure your house or your car, does that balance out?

Yeah, I think that's absolutely a huge, a huge point. I mean, look, the past few years have been especially especially bad for the property insurance segment here in South Florida, and I think it's a confluence of factors. It is absolutely partially about the climate challenges that this region is facing. On top of that, we have a runaway litigation issue in the state of Florida. There have been some reforms that have tried to tackle that, and you know, let's face it, I think that the dynamics in fixed income markets have also played into the price the price hikes that we've seen trickle down to property insurance rates. So The bottom line is property insurance inflation has been through the roof here in the state of Florida, and it absolutely it makes it harder both for those Wall Street South migrants, but it makes it harder to for workers who are sort of Wall Street South adjacent. Right, So if I if I could just pivot to sort of what the third pillar of where Florida needs to see improvement to keep its momentum going, it's really education and that all comes down to drawing the best teachers to the region. Whether it's for private schools or public schools. You need to bring in more and more teachers. We don't have great student teacher ratios here and you're not going to bring in more great teachers if people can't afford to live here because there is both housing inflation and insurance inflation. And by the way, as I started with, not great public transit options for those people who choose to live out in those suburbs and excerbs, so very difficult cocktail of factors here.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely a huge, a huge point. I mean, look, the past few years have been especially especially bad for the property insurance segment here in South Florida, and I think it's a confluence of factors. It is absolutely partially about the climate challenges that this region is facing. On top of that, we have a runaway litigation issue in the state of Florida. There have been some reforms that have tried to tackle that, and you know, let's face it, I think that the dynamics in fixed income markets have also played into the price the price hikes that we've seen trickle down to property insurance rates. So The bottom line is property insurance inflation has been through the roof here in the state of Florida, and it absolutely it makes it harder both for those Wall Street South migrants, but it makes it harder to for workers who are sort of Wall Street South adjacent. Right, So if I if I could just pivot to sort of what the third pillar of where Florida needs to see improvement to keep its momentum going, it's really education and that all comes down to drawing the best teachers to the region. Whether it's for private schools or public schools. You need to bring in more and more teachers. We don't have great student teacher ratios here and you're not going to bring in more great teachers if people can't afford to live here because there is both housing inflation and insurance inflation. And by the way, as I started with, not great public transit options for those people who choose to live out in those suburbs and excerbs, so very difficult cocktail of factors here.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean, if you want to keep the talent, you have to make it easy for the talent to bring over their entire families to uproot them from the Northeast, where there's no shortage of high priced private schools that have a short list of getting into the Harvards and the Yales. You had something really interesting in your column that looked at the private schools and how many of them have good SAT scores in the Miami area versus New York, and the contrast is stunning.

I mean, if you want to keep the talent, you have to make it easy for the talent to bring over their entire families to uproot them from the Northeast, where there's no shortage of high priced private schools that have a short list of getting into the Harvards and the Yales. You had something really interesting in your column that looked at the private schools and how many of them have good SAT scores in the Miami area versus New York, and the contrast is stunning.

Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I think the story is, you know, I live down here. I try to defend the area, and I think there are a lot of very good private and public schools down here. But the truth of the matter is there aren't a ton of great schools. And the way you know, we measured great high schools with the help of this consulting firm, Webster Pacific, is like, how many of them produce average SAT scores above fourteen hundred. The answer very quickly is two. Right, So you can imagine if you have a big flood of folks coming in and they're managing directors, they're top folks at hedge funds, they all want to get their kids into these two schools. And those two schools, you know, Pine Crest and Ransom Efvert Blades, for what it's worth, they can only expand, so fast. You know, you understand where they're coming from. They don't want to expand so fast that they risk their reputation, that they risk the quality of the education. And also expanding means acquiring more real estate. We've talked about why and how that's difficult in a place like this, so again, just you know, very challenging. If you're up in Manhattan, you feel like you have dozens of options, or at least a couple dozen of very very elite private schools. Here, the options are few and far between, and by the way, one of them is probably as much as an hour or more from downtown Miami. So you know, good luck with that commune exactly.

Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I think the story is, you know, I live down here. I try to defend the area, and I think there are a lot of very good private and public schools down here. But the truth of the matter is there aren't a ton of great schools. And the way you know, we measured great high schools with the help of this consulting firm, Webster Pacific, is like, how many of them produce average SAT scores above fourteen hundred. The answer very quickly is two. Right, So you can imagine if you have a big flood of folks coming in and they're managing directors, they're top folks at hedge funds, they all want to get their kids into these two schools. And those two schools, you know, Pine Crest and Ransom Efvert Blades, for what it's worth, they can only expand, so fast. You know, you understand where they're coming from. They don't want to expand so fast that they risk their reputation, that they risk the quality of the education. And also expanding means acquiring more real estate. We've talked about why and how that's difficult in a place like this, so again, just you know, very challenging. If you're up in Manhattan, you feel like you have dozens of options, or at least a couple dozen of very very elite private schools. Here, the options are few and far between, and by the way, one of them is probably as much as an hour or more from downtown Miami. So you know, good luck with that commune exactly.

Jonathan Llvin, thank you so much for joining us. Johnathan Ullivan is a Bloomberg opinion columnist joining us from Miami and Baillie. We were talking earlier about how we may not necessarily be Florida fans, but these are issues that folks of the finance industry think about constantly. Education, transportation, and ease of transit especially.

Jonathan Llvin, thank you so much for joining us. Johnathan Ullivan is a Bloomberg opinion columnist joining us from Miami and Baillie. We were talking earlier about how we may not necessarily be Florida fans, but these are issues that folks of the finance industry think about constantly. Education, transportation, and ease of transit especially.

Yeah, I'm not an IVY League grad, but I do know that IVY League grads prefer to get their kids set up to go to an IVY League, and as Jonathan mentioned, that's one of those key factors for drawing the true elites down there.

Yeah, I'm not an IVY League grad, but I do know that IVY League grads prefer to get their kids set up to go to an IVY League, and as Jonathan mentioned, that's one of those key factors for drawing the true elites down there.

All right, Well, South Florida still has its boosters, and of course there is plenty of money moving down there, just it continues to be a challenge for those who are considering making the move.

All right, Well, South Florida still has its boosters, and of course there is plenty of money moving down there, just it continues to be a challenge for those who are considering making the move.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or watch us live on YouTube.

Dally, did you know that we had APEC this week?

Dally, did you know that we had APEC this week?

I think I heard that I did see Janet Yellen at an in and out according to Twitter.

I think I heard that I did see Janet Yellen at an in and out according to Twitter.

I'm or X. I guess I'm really interested what her order was?

I'm or X. I guess I'm really interested what her order was?

Someone posted this on x Someone.

Someone posted this on x Someone.

Posted a photo of Janet Yellen ordering in and out.

Posted a photo of Janet Yellen ordering in and out.

Actually, that's really good. I gotta go find that one. We want to bring in someone who knows quite a bit about APEC, and of course is a longtime China watcher. He is Andy Brown, a partner at Brunswick Group. He heads up Brunswick's China Hub, which means he works closely with his colleagues in China and globally to lead up the firm's geopolitical practice to advise clients on China related issues.

Actually, that's really good. I gotta go find that one. We want to bring in someone who knows quite a bit about APEC, and of course is a longtime China watcher. He is Andy Brown, a partner at Brunswick Group. He heads up Brunswick's China Hub, which means he works closely with his colleagues in China and globally to lead up the firm's geopolitical practice to advise clients on China related issues.

And he's going to help us.

And he's going to help us.

Recap what happened at APEC because Andy, you had the long anticipated, high stakes summit meeting between President Biden and President Chijinping, and it did yield some big wins. Right, there's going to be military to military communications, there's going to be pandas right exactly.

Recap what happened at APEC because Andy, you had the long anticipated, high stakes summit meeting between President Biden and President Chijinping, and it did yield some big wins. Right, there's going to be military to military communications, there's going to be pandas right exactly.

Some people have called APEX a meeting that occurred on the sidelines of the summit, and I think there's quite a bit of truth to that. Yeah, Look, it was a successful meeting as far as I can tell. It was successful because it happened.

Some people have called APEX a meeting that occurred on the sidelines of the summit, and I think there's quite a bit of truth to that. Yeah, Look, it was a successful meeting as far as I can tell. It was successful because it happened.

Yeah, and they agreed to talk.

Yeah, and they agreed to talk.

They agreed to talk. It was successful against a very low base of expectation. It was successful because nothing terrible happened, if you don't count Joe Biden yet again calling Si Jinping a dictator, yeah, and Anthony blinking looking terribly pained at the reference. But look, I think it was successful because it just seems so normal. You know, you had two leaders and they sat down and they across a table, and they were flanked by their aids, and they had a substantial conversation and a nice walk in the garden, and Si Jinping met a bunch of CEOs and as normal, they sort of sucked up to him and getting a round of a standing ovation and Sijmpin cracked a smile, actually a big grin when Gavin Newsom handed him a Golden State Warriors. Well, that's no, that's not normal. That's that's not normal. That's beyond that's beyond normal. And and look, you know you've got to you've got to measure that against the beginning of this year, when and when it was anything but normal, when it was extremely abnormal.

They agreed to talk. It was successful against a very low base of expectation. It was successful because nothing terrible happened, if you don't count Joe Biden yet again calling Si Jinping a dictator, yeah, and Anthony blinking looking terribly pained at the reference. But look, I think it was successful because it just seems so normal. You know, you had two leaders and they sat down and they across a table, and they were flanked by their aids, and they had a substantial conversation and a nice walk in the garden, and Si Jinping met a bunch of CEOs and as normal, they sort of sucked up to him and getting a round of a standing ovation and Sijmpin cracked a smile, actually a big grin when Gavin Newsom handed him a Golden State Warriors. Well, that's no, that's not normal. That's that's not normal. That's beyond that's beyond normal. And and look, you know you've got to you've got to measure that against the beginning of this year, when and when it was anything but normal, when it was extremely abnormal.

Uh.

Uh.

And in fact, earlier this year people were talking about war.

And in fact, earlier this year people were talking about war.

Well, we see we have two wars going on and the uncertainty around that. But I'm wondering what the messaging from this summit could mean for investors wanting to get back into China, because we saw Ali Baba pulling back their plan to separate their cloud unit because of the restrictions from the US shipping AI or chips to China.

Well, we see we have two wars going on and the uncertainty around that. But I'm wondering what the messaging from this summit could mean for investors wanting to get back into China, because we saw Ali Baba pulling back their plan to separate their cloud unit because of the restrictions from the US shipping AI or chips to China.

Yeah, I don't actually think that that that was the point of the meeting was to get anything substantial. Frankly, on anything. The point of this meeting was just to get these two sides together again, and there has been a dangerous absence of dialogue even as military tensions build, even as you have war in Ukraine, you have war in Gaza, and you have all kinds of tripwise flash points around Asia, Chinese Filipino ships standing off in the South China Sea. It's important that these two leaders get together. And frankly, I thought one of the more important agreements we had an agreement for military military to resume military military exchanges. We had an agreement on fentanyl. I thought maybe one of the most important was agreement to get more flights going before between the United States and China. You've got to remember, in all the sort of myriad ways that Chinese and Americans have met over the years, whether that's in conference rooms or in sports stadiums or hotels or airplanes, all of that, all of that has been frozen and in a world that is becoming incredibly tense.

Yeah, I don't actually think that that that was the point of the meeting was to get anything substantial. Frankly, on anything. The point of this meeting was just to get these two sides together again, and there has been a dangerous absence of dialogue even as military tensions build, even as you have war in Ukraine, you have war in Gaza, and you have all kinds of tripwise flash points around Asia, Chinese Filipino ships standing off in the South China Sea. It's important that these two leaders get together. And frankly, I thought one of the more important agreements we had an agreement for military military to resume military military exchanges. We had an agreement on fentanyl. I thought maybe one of the most important was agreement to get more flights going before between the United States and China. You've got to remember, in all the sort of myriad ways that Chinese and Americans have met over the years, whether that's in conference rooms or in sports stadiums or hotels or airplanes, all of that, all of that has been frozen and in a world that is becoming incredibly tense.

So things really took a turn for the worse when former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made a trip to Thai One basically sticking a finger in Beijing's eye. Have all the different measures that have been piled on been rolled back following.

So things really took a turn for the worse when former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made a trip to Thai One basically sticking a finger in Beijing's eye. Have all the different measures that have been piled on been rolled back following.

That, no well talking so so, first of all, in the aftermath of that was the August August visit, and then you had China firing ballistic missiles over Taiwans halted all negotiations, all talks about about anything. We haven't wound back. I mean, we're not going back to where we were before. The US position is, basically, this is a fundamentally competitive relationship, but we've got to make it work, frenemies. We got to make it work because we've got a big trade relationship, investment relationship, and we've got a lot of people to people contact, and we have a lot of problems in the world that needs solving, not least climate change, pandemics, narcotics, trafficking and so on. That's the That's the US position, and it seems to me to be a pretty sensible one that acknowledges the tensions and the relationship, that says we've got to manage them somehow.

That, no well talking so so, first of all, in the aftermath of that was the August August visit, and then you had China firing ballistic missiles over Taiwans halted all negotiations, all talks about about anything. We haven't wound back. I mean, we're not going back to where we were before. The US position is, basically, this is a fundamentally competitive relationship, but we've got to make it work, frenemies. We got to make it work because we've got a big trade relationship, investment relationship, and we've got a lot of people to people contact, and we have a lot of problems in the world that needs solving, not least climate change, pandemics, narcotics, trafficking and so on. That's the That's the US position, and it seems to me to be a pretty sensible one that acknowledges the tensions and the relationship, that says we've got to manage them somehow.

We're talking Andy Brown, partner at Brunswick Group, former editorial director of the Bloomberg New Economic Forum.

We're talking Andy Brown, partner at Brunswick Group, former editorial director of the Bloomberg New Economic Forum.

So glad to have you back in studio.

So glad to have you back in studio.

But Andy, one thing that's come up on a couple of conversations I've had, is that they view some investors view the current geopolitical landscape as the most uncertain since the aftermath of two thousand and one, eris aftermath of nine to eleven, Given everything going on in Gaza, in Ukraine, uncertainty around China and Taiwan. What do you make of that potential argument? And did this summit have any impact on your view?

But Andy, one thing that's come up on a couple of conversations I've had, is that they view some investors view the current geopolitical landscape as the most uncertain since the aftermath of two thousand and one, eris aftermath of nine to eleven, Given everything going on in Gaza, in Ukraine, uncertainty around China and Taiwan. What do you make of that potential argument? And did this summit have any impact on your view?

Well, to the extent that geopolitics drives business today, and it really does. The fact that you've had this sort of time out, the fact that you have two presidents who are now tolking has at least cleared some of the uncertainty. So earlier this year, ceo as were worried about worst caseos. Right, So you had boardrooms looking at trying to weigh the probability of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. You know, you had senior Pentagon figures coming out to say, yep, you know we can see inside Tajen things. Mind he's going to go in Before twenty twenty seven. You had the head of the Navy saying it could be twenty twenty four. In fact, it could be any time at all, and so this has been this has been a big deterrent to long term investment in China, the geopolitics of Taiwan, the geopolitics of the South China Sea, on top of a lot of very hostile regulation in China around data, around national security, anti espionage. You had Chinese police raids on the Mints group, on Bain and so on and all together you wrap it all up, and CEOs have been concerned frankly about their personal safety in China, issues about whether they should go or not, and if they go, should they wipe their laptop? Yes, we'll leave them at home.

Well, to the extent that geopolitics drives business today, and it really does. The fact that you've had this sort of time out, the fact that you have two presidents who are now tolking has at least cleared some of the uncertainty. So earlier this year, ceo as were worried about worst caseos. Right, So you had boardrooms looking at trying to weigh the probability of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. You know, you had senior Pentagon figures coming out to say, yep, you know we can see inside Tajen things. Mind he's going to go in Before twenty twenty seven. You had the head of the Navy saying it could be twenty twenty four. In fact, it could be any time at all, and so this has been this has been a big deterrent to long term investment in China, the geopolitics of Taiwan, the geopolitics of the South China Sea, on top of a lot of very hostile regulation in China around data, around national security, anti espionage. You had Chinese police raids on the Mints group, on Bain and so on and all together you wrap it all up, and CEOs have been concerned frankly about their personal safety in China, issues about whether they should go or not, and if they go, should they wipe their laptop? Yes, we'll leave them at home.

Even better, I got to ask you, since you bring up Taiwan and how big of an issue it is. The opposition parties in Taiwan have agreed to join forces ahead of the critical presidential election next year. That increases the odds slightly that you might get a more pro China government in Taiwan elected next year. What does that do to any kind of timeline that people are putting out there about a possible Chinese attempt to unify with Taiwan.

Even better, I got to ask you, since you bring up Taiwan and how big of an issue it is. The opposition parties in Taiwan have agreed to join forces ahead of the critical presidential election next year. That increases the odds slightly that you might get a more pro China government in Taiwan elected next year. What does that do to any kind of timeline that people are putting out there about a possible Chinese attempt to unify with Taiwan.

Right, so, these timelines were all extremely speculative to start with. I mean, really, the only date we have is that cjmping has told the People's Liberation Army it should be ready by twenty twenty seven. So actually I think this is a big deal. It wasn't so long ago that William Laie of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party was a shoe in, all right, and he has a history of fairly strong support for a provide and its position. And now you have the opposition agreeing to unite behind a single ticket and they will have a series of internal external polls to see who that should be, all broken by former President maying two and China would Now I don't know whether that how to what extent that change of the game, but it certainly does make the likelihood of a William Lyve presidency.

Right, so, these timelines were all extremely speculative to start with. I mean, really, the only date we have is that cjmping has told the People's Liberation Army it should be ready by twenty twenty seven. So actually I think this is a big deal. It wasn't so long ago that William Laie of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party was a shoe in, all right, and he has a history of fairly strong support for a provide and its position. And now you have the opposition agreeing to unite behind a single ticket and they will have a series of internal external polls to see who that should be, all broken by former President maying two and China would Now I don't know whether that how to what extent that change of the game, but it certainly does make the likelihood of a William Lyve presidency.

So much less and that would be good news for anyone looking for come in the South China. See Andy Brown, really appreciate your joining us. Andy Brown as partner with the Brunswick Group, former editorial director of the Bloomberg New Economy Forum.

So much less and that would be good news for anyone looking for come in the South China. See Andy Brown, really appreciate your joining us. Andy Brown as partner with the Brunswick Group, former editorial director of the Bloomberg New Economy Forum.

This is Bloomberg.

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You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, The Bloomberg Business app and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, The Bloomberg Business app and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Billy.

Billy.

You and I were talking earlier about Joe Biden and she, Jim Hingk's meeting and St.

You and I were talking earlier about Joe Biden and she, Jim Hingk's meeting and St.

Francisco.

Francisco.

For all that it accomplished or didn't accomplish, there was one small victory, which is the likely return of panda.

For all that it accomplished or didn't accomplish, there was one small victory, which is the likely return of panda.

Bears to US zoo's.

Bears to US zoo's.

Earlier this month, the three panda bears at Washington, DC's National Zoo were returned to China following the expiration of a three year contract with the China's Wildlife Agency. So we want to bring in now Elena Songster. She is a professor at Saint Mary's College of California. She is author of Panda Nation, which is a book about China's panda policy. Elena, good to speak with you. I am obsessed with panda bears because they're like giant children, but also because Beijing has long used these creatures as a way to curry favor, reward friends, and punish their enemies. What can you tell us about the significance of pandas to China?

Earlier this month, the three panda bears at Washington, DC's National Zoo were returned to China following the expiration of a three year contract with the China's Wildlife Agency. So we want to bring in now Elena Songster. She is a professor at Saint Mary's College of California. She is author of Panda Nation, which is a book about China's panda policy. Elena, good to speak with you. I am obsessed with panda bears because they're like giant children, but also because Beijing has long used these creatures as a way to curry favor, reward friends, and punish their enemies. What can you tell us about the significance of pandas to China?

So pandas are unique to China. They cannot be found anywhere else. And one thing that I find particularly interesting that I discovered in my research about pandas is that they are not connected with any of the more ancient kind of historical cultural symbolism, and so they're really only become significant culturally for China in the twentieth century.

So pandas are unique to China. They cannot be found anywhere else. And one thing that I find particularly interesting that I discovered in my research about pandas is that they are not connected with any of the more ancient kind of historical cultural symbolism, and so they're really only become significant culturally for China in the twentieth century.

Yeah, I'm really interested in who pays for these flights because they just sent back the pandas and now they're returning. Is that something that the Chinese government is funding? Are American taxpayers funding that that?

Yeah, I'm really interested in who pays for these flights because they just sent back the pandas and now they're returning. Is that something that the Chinese government is funding? Are American taxpayers funding that that?

Actually, I do not know. That's a good question. It must be wrapped into the exchange agreement in some way.

Actually, I do not know. That's a good question. It must be wrapped into the exchange agreement in some way.

Yeah, these exchange agreements.

Yeah, these exchange agreements.

It's interesting because when there are pandas from China coming to the US, they're not gifted to the US. They're on loan, and the US actually has to pay for these pandas, right correct. According to a survey by nique Asia Bailey, zoos typically pay a million dollars a year for a pair of panda pairs.

It's interesting because when there are pandas from China coming to the US, they're not gifted to the US. They're on loan, and the US actually has to pay for these pandas, right correct. According to a survey by nique Asia Bailey, zoos typically pay a million dollars a year for a pair of panda pairs.

Now, my question is, when the pandas come from China and they pro create in a US zoo, is the baby panda US citizen a check?

Now, my question is, when the pandas come from China and they pro create in a US zoo, is the baby panda US citizen a check?

Though no, baby panda belongs to China. That's part of the agreement that and not only does the baby panda belong to China, but the US zus pay an additional fee when they have a privilege of having a baby panda.

Though no, baby panda belongs to China. That's part of the agreement that and not only does the baby panda belong to China, but the US zus pay an additional fee when they have a privilege of having a baby panda.

Wow, so it cost you money to have a baby panda, Yes, but.

Wow, so it cost you money to have a baby panda, Yes, but.

You also make a lot of money when you have a baby panda.

You also make a lot of money when you have a baby panda.

The pros and cons.

The pros and cons.

So if pandas, if and wind pandas come back, what does that rollout look like? Is it all at once? They just kind of deploy a bunch of planes with pandas eating and sleeping across the Atlantic?

So if pandas, if and wind pandas come back, what does that rollout look like? Is it all at once? They just kind of deploy a bunch of planes with pandas eating and sleeping across the Atlantic?

Probably highly unlikely. I don't know, but I suspect that it will be another pair of pandas that will be of madeable age. That would it sounds like go to the San Diego Zoo based on what Chi Jinping said this past week.

Probably highly unlikely. I don't know, but I suspect that it will be another pair of pandas that will be of madeable age. That would it sounds like go to the San Diego Zoo based on what Chi Jinping said this past week.

Yeah, which makes me wonder why did they let the contract lapse and send back the national zoo pandas? Is it because they're setting up for Xi Jinping to announce that they would resume the pandalons. Can you talk a little bit about how China has used pandas as a form of soft power.

Yeah, which makes me wonder why did they let the contract lapse and send back the national zoo pandas? Is it because they're setting up for Xi Jinping to announce that they would resume the pandalons. Can you talk a little bit about how China has used pandas as a form of soft power.

Yeah. Sure.

Yeah. Sure.

So the.

So the.

Most kind of monumental example of this, of course, is the nineteen seventy two gift to the United States that was offered during Richard Nixon's President Nixon's visit to China, which was monumental on many fronts, but mainly because the US and China were enemy states at the time, and so this was really a top secret visit and when it happened, it was a shock to a lot of people around the globe, and it really was an expression of this very high profile expression of warming relations between these two countries. And then it came with this, because it came with this gift of pandas to the United States, that suddenly kind of imbued the pandas with all of this kind of intense symbolic meaning. And that was then repeated almost immediately when Japan normalized relations with China just months later, and then subsequently to several other countries. And so the first stage of panda diplomacy were these kind of high profile gifts. But then that shifted to loans, in part because China was worried about giving away its pandas without a clear understanding of how many it had and how sustainable that process, and that process was and so they switched to short term loans. But these weren't very well structured. They weren't good for the individual pandas, their money wasn't necessarily going through the conservation of the wild population, and so it came under heavy criticism and pressure came from animal experts that this had to stop, and so they brought that to a close in the early nineteen nineties in the United States, though it continued in other places until the early two thousands, and a group of experts, along with Chinese scientists and officials, came together and created this long term scientific loan for which San Diego was the first model, and that started in nineteen ninety six and as of two thousand seven, I believe all of the subsequent loans around the world are based on this model.

Most kind of monumental example of this, of course, is the nineteen seventy two gift to the United States that was offered during Richard Nixon's President Nixon's visit to China, which was monumental on many fronts, but mainly because the US and China were enemy states at the time, and so this was really a top secret visit and when it happened, it was a shock to a lot of people around the globe, and it really was an expression of this very high profile expression of warming relations between these two countries. And then it came with this, because it came with this gift of pandas to the United States, that suddenly kind of imbued the pandas with all of this kind of intense symbolic meaning. And that was then repeated almost immediately when Japan normalized relations with China just months later, and then subsequently to several other countries. And so the first stage of panda diplomacy were these kind of high profile gifts. But then that shifted to loans, in part because China was worried about giving away its pandas without a clear understanding of how many it had and how sustainable that process, and that process was and so they switched to short term loans. But these weren't very well structured. They weren't good for the individual pandas, their money wasn't necessarily going through the conservation of the wild population, and so it came under heavy criticism and pressure came from animal experts that this had to stop, and so they brought that to a close in the early nineteen nineties in the United States, though it continued in other places until the early two thousands, and a group of experts, along with Chinese scientists and officials, came together and created this long term scientific loan for which San Diego was the first model, and that started in nineteen ninety six and as of two thousand seven, I believe all of the subsequent loans around the world are based on this model.

And we know about the Taylor Swift economy. Is there a panda economy if and when they returned to San Diego, Like, how much revenue are we talking? This potentially could drive?

And we know about the Taylor Swift economy. Is there a panda economy if and when they returned to San Diego, Like, how much revenue are we talking? This potentially could drive?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, this is one of the reasons the pandas are so expensive to have for an institution. One of the reasons that the fee is a million dollars a year usually is because prior to that, during the short term loan phase, which occurred from eighty four to ninety two, the the institutions that were hosting the hosting these pandas they were making all kinds of money, like millions of dollars a year, and or just within months actually, because they only had them for a few months, and so they were seen as like profiting off of these precious species, and so that was a violation of sites the ITES, which is the Convention on International Trade and Endangered Species.

So, I mean, this is one of the reasons the pandas are so expensive to have for an institution. One of the reasons that the fee is a million dollars a year usually is because prior to that, during the short term loan phase, which occurred from eighty four to ninety two, the the institutions that were hosting the hosting these pandas they were making all kinds of money, like millions of dollars a year, and or just within months actually, because they only had them for a few months, and so they were seen as like profiting off of these precious species, and so that was a violation of sites the ITES, which is the Convention on International Trade and Endangered Species.

Hey, real quick before you go, Ilina, if Bailey were to climb the fence at the zoo and jump in the cage with the pandas, would they tear his face off? I mean, they're cute, but I don't know anything about Are they violent or like cuddly little bears like we all think they are? Yes, guess what they face off because I'd like to see that.

Hey, real quick before you go, Ilina, if Bailey were to climb the fence at the zoo and jump in the cage with the pandas, would they tear his face off? I mean, they're cute, but I don't know anything about Are they violent or like cuddly little bears like we all think they are? Yes, guess what they face off because I'd like to see that.

So there have been actual instances of the situation you just described. An individual jumped into an enclosure in China and tried to hug a panda bear and that person was mauled and ended up in the hospital. So that's a really bad idea and highly not recommended.

So there have been actual instances of the situation you just described. An individual jumped into an enclosure in China and tried to hug a panda bear and that person was mauled and ended up in the hospital. So that's a really bad idea and highly not recommended.

Don't do that.

Don't do that.

Well, that's why I like red pandas because they're not related to Yeah yeah.

Well, that's why I like red pandas because they're not related to Yeah yeah.

On the flip side, they're not aggressive in the same order as say, Grizzly or polar Bear.

On the flip side, they're not aggressive in the same order as say, Grizzly or polar Bear.

Okay, all right, we'll leave it there. So there. Yeah, the free question.

Okay, all right, we'll leave it there. So there. Yeah, the free question.

John Tucker was waiting, dying to ask that question. Really appreciate your joining us. Alena Songster, the author of pand Nation, also Associate professor of History at Saint Mary's College of California.

John Tucker was waiting, dying to ask that question. Really appreciate your joining us. Alena Songster, the author of pand Nation, also Associate professor of History at Saint Mary's College of California.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven.

We did get some data this morning. New US home construction unexpectedly rose in October. That is a sign that builders continue to benefit from a limited supply in the resale market. I want to bring in Kate Kaminski. She is the chief operating officer of Walton Global, which is a privately owned land asset and real estate investment company with about three point six billion dollars in assets. Kate joins us by Zoom from Scottsdale, Arizona.

We did get some data this morning. New US home construction unexpectedly rose in October. That is a sign that builders continue to benefit from a limited supply in the resale market. I want to bring in Kate Kaminski. She is the chief operating officer of Walton Global, which is a privately owned land asset and real estate investment company with about three point six billion dollars in assets. Kate joins us by Zoom from Scottsdale, Arizona.

Kate, good to speak with you.

Kate, good to speak with you.

Can you give us a sense of what the housing market in Scottsdale, Arizona, part of the Sun Belt looks like versus the rest of the country.

Can you give us a sense of what the housing market in Scottsdale, Arizona, part of the Sun Belt looks like versus the rest of the country.

Thanks for having me. I was hoping we were going to talk about pandas today.

Thanks for having me. I was hoping we were going to talk about pandas today.

Wait, are you a fan of better black and white pandas?

Wait, are you a fan of better black and white pandas?

I like the black and white ones too, but housing, how about those numbers today? Really excited to see the result. And I have to say that that is really consistent with what I was hearing last week. Was that a prominent real estate conference in New York City. We had everyone from the investment side of the business, to home building to supply chain all there and sentiment in the room was high, so much higher than the same conference just a year ago. And I think that that's really representative of what we're seeing in these numbers that came out today with over thirteen percent increases in starts and permits.

I like the black and white ones too, but housing, how about those numbers today? Really excited to see the result. And I have to say that that is really consistent with what I was hearing last week. Was that a prominent real estate conference in New York City. We had everyone from the investment side of the business, to home building to supply chain all there and sentiment in the room was high, so much higher than the same conference just a year ago. And I think that that's really representative of what we're seeing in these numbers that came out today with over thirteen percent increases in starts and permits.

Keith, what is driving the optimism?

Keith, what is driving the optimism?

Is it just the pent up demand for houses in the fact that there's not a ton of supply of non new or existing homes.

Is it just the pent up demand for houses in the fact that there's not a ton of supply of non new or existing homes.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a factor of that lock in effect that we're.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a factor of that lock in effect that we're.

Seeing with the existing home sales.

Seeing with the existing home sales.

You know, builders are really benefiting from rates being where they're at and people that are locked in, you know, under five four percent not having a desire to sell at this point because of what the cost of moving into a new home would be. So builders are experiencing market share that is totally out of.

You know, builders are really benefiting from rates being where they're at and people that are locked in, you know, under five four percent not having a desire to sell at this point because of what the cost of moving into a new home would be. So builders are experiencing market share that is totally out of.

The norm and really benefiting from that.

The norm and really benefiting from that.

Yeah, there's some data from a consulting firm called Zanda that indicates new homes now account for a third of available inventory versus the typical ten percent. Is this a new Is this now the new normal to have new homes account for a third of available inventory or is this temporary?

Yeah, there's some data from a consulting firm called Zanda that indicates new homes now account for a third of available inventory versus the typical ten percent. Is this a new Is this now the new normal to have new homes account for a third of available inventory or is this temporary?

I think that this is going to be here to stay for a little while because people are going to benefit from those rates that they're locked into for a while. So, you know, there is a fundamental need for new housing supply, and the builders are are the ones who are going to be able to provide that as we see, you know, these historically low levels of resale inventory. I think that the builders are also going to continue to command market share because of what they're doing with their rate buydown programs. They're getting people into homes at what continues to be kind of the level that consumers seem comfortable with, which is around that five percent. So we're seeing builders across the board really pushing these programs of buying down the mortgage rates, which are sitting at what seven point three percent today down to five and a half just below that, which is where you're seeing a lot of consumers comfortable.

I think that this is going to be here to stay for a little while because people are going to benefit from those rates that they're locked into for a while. So, you know, there is a fundamental need for new housing supply, and the builders are are the ones who are going to be able to provide that as we see, you know, these historically low levels of resale inventory. I think that the builders are also going to continue to command market share because of what they're doing with their rate buydown programs. They're getting people into homes at what continues to be kind of the level that consumers seem comfortable with, which is around that five percent. So we're seeing builders across the board really pushing these programs of buying down the mortgage rates, which are sitting at what seven point three percent today down to five and a half just below that, which is where you're seeing a lot of consumers comfortable.

And looking at what the rates environment is showing right now. Baking in three fed cuts for next year. What happens with the home construction new home construction market in twenty twenty four, if in fact we do see rates continue to come.

And looking at what the rates environment is showing right now. Baking in three fed cuts for next year. What happens with the home construction new home construction market in twenty twenty four, if in fact we do see rates continue to come.

Down, Yeah, I think it's going to continue to escalate. I mean, all of the home builder stocks are up and they're definitely looking to increase community count Walton. You know, we're really focused on an earlier stage in the cycle as compared to the development or building side. We're buying land to feed to these builders that's really in the path of growth, and we're seeing an acceleration in the deals that we're putting under contract because these builders are really looking to secure that supply because they continue to see the demands. So we're seeing builders continue to build on spec because they're seeing that turnover in their inventory, and we're expecting that that community count's going to continue to increase and that demand is not going to decline in the near term.

Down, Yeah, I think it's going to continue to escalate. I mean, all of the home builder stocks are up and they're definitely looking to increase community count Walton. You know, we're really focused on an earlier stage in the cycle as compared to the development or building side. We're buying land to feed to these builders that's really in the path of growth, and we're seeing an acceleration in the deals that we're putting under contract because these builders are really looking to secure that supply because they continue to see the demands. So we're seeing builders continue to build on spec because they're seeing that turnover in their inventory, and we're expecting that that community count's going to continue to increase and that demand is not going to decline in the near term.

I look around in Jersey and I don't see any undeveloped plan Where are you guys putting money to work to and buying to sell to these homebuilders.

I look around in Jersey and I don't see any undeveloped plan Where are you guys putting money to work to and buying to sell to these homebuilders.

But we're really focused in the southern half of the US. We focus on your typical, you know, market fundamentals such as jobs, people, so migration into a market, and we're looking to continue to expand where the builders are taking us, and that is we're really seeing in that Sun Belt region and particular states that continue to defile lodds like Texas and Florida with staggering new home starts within those markets.

But we're really focused in the southern half of the US. We focus on your typical, you know, market fundamentals such as jobs, people, so migration into a market, and we're looking to continue to expand where the builders are taking us, and that is we're really seeing in that Sun Belt region and particular states that continue to defile lodds like Texas and Florida with staggering new home starts within those markets.

We were talking about a story that was very well read on the Bloomberg today about how almost forty percent of US homeowners are mortgage free and the majority of these homeowners are retirement age and a lot of them are basically cashing in on their homes in the Northeast and then selling those and going to buy homes in the sun Belt.

We were talking about a story that was very well read on the Bloomberg today about how almost forty percent of US homeowners are mortgage free and the majority of these homeowners are retirement age and a lot of them are basically cashing in on their homes in the Northeast and then selling those and going to buy homes in the sun Belt.

How does that distort this current housing market?

How does that distort this current housing market?

So, you know, I think that from a new home building perspective, we're still seeing that, you know, help the demand side because we're seeing a lot of active adult communities pop up within the states that I just mentioned.

So, you know, I think that from a new home building perspective, we're still seeing that, you know, help the demand side because we're seeing a lot of active adult communities pop up within the states that I just mentioned.

That continues to be a.

That continues to be a.

Product that you know, we're they're really driving within each of those markets. And and so I think even though you're going to maybe see some resale inventory creep up in those markets, you're you're going to see the demand for new homes within those Sunbelt areas places looking for highly amenditized communities, which you know, tend to be a lot of your newer communities as compared to some you know, older single homes that aren't going to have those recreational facilities. And so we're we think that that continues to be a great opportunity to expand hard share.

Product that you know, we're they're really driving within each of those markets. And and so I think even though you're going to maybe see some resale inventory creep up in those markets, you're you're going to see the demand for new homes within those Sunbelt areas places looking for highly amenditized communities, which you know, tend to be a lot of your newer communities as compared to some you know, older single homes that aren't going to have those recreational facilities. And so we're we think that that continues to be a great opportunity to expand hard share.

Kate really appreciate your joining us. Kate Kaminski is Chief operating Officer at Walton Global, joining us from Scottsdale, Arizona.

Kate really appreciate your joining us. Kate Kaminski is Chief operating Officer at Walton Global, joining us from Scottsdale, Arizona.

This is Bloombergmark.

This is Bloombergmark.

Journal about you.

Journal about you.

Let me drive, No, No, No, All right, how do the driving gravelst mate, I want to try it.

Let me drive, No, No, No, All right, how do the driving gravelst mate, I want to try it.

It's a good question, drives.

It's a good question, drives.

This is the drive to the clothes. Do to me?

This is the drive to the clothes. Do to me?

Think?

Think?

Well, yoga don.

Well, yoga don.

On Bloomberg Radio, it is time for the drive to the clothes. And today joining us is Sylvia Jablonski. She's CEO and CIO at Defiance ETFs. I'm Scarlet fou here with Bailly Lipschultz.

On Bloomberg Radio, it is time for the drive to the clothes. And today joining us is Sylvia Jablonski. She's CEO and CIO at Defiance ETFs. I'm Scarlet fou here with Bailly Lipschultz.

Sylvia. Great to have you on.

Sylvia. Great to have you on.

As much as there's little action in the indexes today, we do see stock indexes firmly higher for the week.

As much as there's little action in the indexes today, we do see stock indexes firmly higher for the week.

So the November rally fear not is intact.

So the November rally fear not is intact.

The S and P five hundred remains above forty five hundred, but the pace of gains is definitely slowed compared with let's say two and a half weeks ago. Treasury yields for change are a little changed, Sylvia. Have we gone from over sold to overbought and we're just kind of stuck waiting for new catalysts?

The S and P five hundred remains above forty five hundred, but the pace of gains is definitely slowed compared with let's say two and a half weeks ago. Treasury yields for change are a little changed, Sylvia. Have we gone from over sold to overbought and we're just kind of stuck waiting for new catalysts?

Now, Hi, Scarlett, good afternoon.

Now, Hi, Scarlett, good afternoon.

You know I think that with that kind of let's call it short term emic rally like this, it's it's not unusual to set, you know, to see a little bit of a pause in that.

You know I think that with that kind of let's call it short term emic rally like this, it's it's not unusual to set, you know, to see a little bit of a pause in that.

So I don't think that you know we're necessarily and overbought.

So I don't think that you know we're necessarily and overbought.

I do you think that you know, we've transitioned closer to overbought than than you know, we were to oversold before because of the rally this week. But I think that stocks are just taking a breather, and you know, the story for a year end rally or at least sustaining what we've already got maybe moving up a little bit more, remains intact.

I do you think that you know, we've transitioned closer to overbought than than you know, we were to oversold before because of the rally this week. But I think that stocks are just taking a breather, and you know, the story for a year end rally or at least sustaining what we've already got maybe moving up a little bit more, remains intact.

You know, we have seasonal headwinds. Now, we have a strong consumer.

You know, we have seasonal headwinds. Now, we have a strong consumer.

As you said, the ten years a little unchanged, but it's certainly changed, you know, down from five percent in recent weeks. The FED is is kind of more stable, leaning on even dubvish, and I think the market like that in the short term, and I think that you know, that gives us some momentum in trading, and.

As you said, the ten years a little unchanged, but it's certainly changed, you know, down from five percent in recent weeks. The FED is is kind of more stable, leaning on even dubvish, and I think the market like that in the short term, and I think that you know, that gives us some momentum in trading, and.

Sylvia, we'll get some more data before the next FED decision. What can change is and do you see the inflation data is potentially one offer a start of a really strong trend.

Sylvia, we'll get some more data before the next FED decision. What can change is and do you see the inflation data is potentially one offer a start of a really strong trend.

I don't think it's the start of a really strong trend necessarily.

I don't think it's the start of a really strong trend necessarily.

You know, we might see another reader too.

You know, we might see another reader too.

That's that kind of stays in the same area might even be a little bit you know, hotter than this one was. But it's certainly very reassuring to have seen this inflation data number. You know, we kind of break it apart. Some of the interesting points of it were reduce things like reduce costs of healthcare and things like that. So, you know, I think it depends. I mean, what is good is that the price of oil is lower. You know, it looks like there's some ease across you know, the various inflation points, which is very good for consumers. But I think for the next couple of months it's probably going to hover around where it is. Maybe it'll kind of drop down a little bit. I don't think that much will change the FAD's mind at this stage, unless you know, unless it's a completely hot read out of left field, and you know, fed share Palol did address that right and in October, you know, he seemed a little more doubbish than he did in kind of the last meeting that we saw, where he almost said that, look, we're open to head fakes, and if there are head fakes, you know, have no doubt that we too will headfakes. So you know, I think that'll be interesting to see.

That's that kind of stays in the same area might even be a little bit you know, hotter than this one was. But it's certainly very reassuring to have seen this inflation data number. You know, we kind of break it apart. Some of the interesting points of it were reduce things like reduce costs of healthcare and things like that. So, you know, I think it depends. I mean, what is good is that the price of oil is lower. You know, it looks like there's some ease across you know, the various inflation points, which is very good for consumers. But I think for the next couple of months it's probably going to hover around where it is. Maybe it'll kind of drop down a little bit. I don't think that much will change the FAD's mind at this stage, unless you know, unless it's a completely hot read out of left field, and you know, fed share Palol did address that right and in October, you know, he seemed a little more doubbish than he did in kind of the last meeting that we saw, where he almost said that, look, we're open to head fakes, and if there are head fakes, you know, have no doubt that we too will headfakes. So you know, I think that'll be interesting to see.

You know, it's worth the note mentioning here that Microsoft shares are down, and if you look at an inter day chart, the stock did start losing ground right around the time, Bailly, that we broke the news that Sam Altman is departing open Ai after losing the confidence of the board again. Sam Altman one of the co founders of open Ai, one of those prominent figures in the AI industry.

You know, it's worth the note mentioning here that Microsoft shares are down, and if you look at an inter day chart, the stock did start losing ground right around the time, Bailly, that we broke the news that Sam Altman is departing open Ai after losing the confidence of the board again. Sam Altman one of the co founders of open Ai, one of those prominent figures in the AI industry.

Leaving open Ai.

Leaving open Ai.

The chief technology officer will come in and become the interim CEO. I bring this up, Sylvia, because Microsoft is one of the stocks that you say is really a leader among the tech firms in part because of that open Ai investment. How much of that is pricedon, do you think?

The chief technology officer will come in and become the interim CEO. I bring this up, Sylvia, because Microsoft is one of the stocks that you say is really a leader among the tech firms in part because of that open Ai investment. How much of that is pricedon, do you think?

Yeah? I do think so. The news is pretty interesting, right, and it's not surprising to.

Yeah? I do think so. The news is pretty interesting, right, and it's not surprising to.

See that the stock maybe fell off a little bit of me today, you know, kind of fits and seven have all done the same. But you know, you know, we'll have to see how that impacts the stock and what his role was in, you know, in terms of like their allegiance with open Ai. I think it's a huge part of Microsoft's success, and I do think that open AI is priced in, but what is priced in is the.

See that the stock maybe fell off a little bit of me today, you know, kind of fits and seven have all done the same. But you know, you know, we'll have to see how that impacts the stock and what his role was in, you know, in terms of like their allegiance with open Ai. I think it's a huge part of Microsoft's success, and I do think that open AI is priced in, but what is priced in is the.

Other stuff they're doing.

Other stuff they're doing.

You know, they're they're kind of you know, forever been talking about their own AI chips.

You know, they're they're kind of you know, forever been talking about their own AI chips.

We'll see where that goes. If you look at cloud growth, you.

We'll see where that goes. If you look at cloud growth, you.

Know, the last earning season, if Amazon Cloud grew twenty six percent or sorry, twelve percent, Azure grew twenty six percent. So they're starting to see like a faster growth rate even though they're not the biggest cloud provider. Three sixty five Coal Pilot is another AI solution, and forty percent of S and P five hundred stocks actually subscribed to that already, and they're picking up steam and momentum there. And then you actually just have like the you know, desktop upgrades and conversions, which we haven't really seen since COVID. So I think that either way, Microsoft is going to be fine, and there's a lot of reasons why.

Know, the last earning season, if Amazon Cloud grew twenty six percent or sorry, twelve percent, Azure grew twenty six percent. So they're starting to see like a faster growth rate even though they're not the biggest cloud provider. Three sixty five Coal Pilot is another AI solution, and forty percent of S and P five hundred stocks actually subscribed to that already, and they're picking up steam and momentum there. And then you actually just have like the you know, desktop upgrades and conversions, which we haven't really seen since COVID. So I think that either way, Microsoft is going to be fine, and there's a lot of reasons why.

That's why that stock can.

That's why that stock can.

Continue to grow, quality stock, you know, it's just and on a tear lately.

Continue to grow, quality stock, you know, it's just and on a tear lately.

And I do think that they're going to play a huge role in AI.

And I do think that they're going to play a huge role in AI.

They've already sort of proved that, and I think this news will just will probably you know, be a short term dent in the stock will proborly move forward with innovations.

They've already sort of proved that, and I think this news will just will probably you know, be a short term dent in the stock will proborly move forward with innovations.

Sticking on that theme, another stock you like is in Vidia, up two hundred and thirty six percent this year earnings on Tuesday.

Sticking on that theme, another stock you like is in Vidia, up two hundred and thirty six percent this year earnings on Tuesday.

How high is the bar?

How high is the bar?

The bar is pretty high. The bar is pretty high, you know.

The bar is pretty high. The bar is pretty high, you know.

I think in some of the areas that we're going to be looking at is you know, kind of what their growth is, right I think they talked about a one hundred and seventy one percent in just one segment data center last time around.