Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

Broad Out from look thinking about what consumers are doing, thinking more broadly about the global economy as well. We're also looking ahead to the global business formats happening here later, starting in just under an hour's time, where we're going to be hearing from the President Joe Biden speaking here a little bit later too. But now we want to turn to some of those broader trends in the economy. We've got the managing director of the International Monitoring Front, Crystalina Giorgiabo, with us here in the studio, with us in the Plaza Hotel Press.

Broad Out from look thinking about what consumers are doing, thinking more broadly about the global economy as well. We're also looking ahead to the global business formats happening here later, starting in just under an hour's time, where we're going to be hearing from the President Joe Biden speaking here a little bit later too. But now we want to turn to some of those broader trends in the economy. We've got the managing director of the International Monitoring Front, Crystalina Giorgiabo, with us here in the studio, with us in the Plaza Hotel Press.

Welcome, great to be with you.

Welcome, great to be with you.

We're here focused very much on climate solutions, on the challenges at the climate crisis has presented us as well, but I want to ask you about the situation facing the global economy. We've had the FED has cut interest rates, it's joined the easing party, that global central banks have been taking in the past couple of months. We're about a month away from the update of the next IMF Global Economic Forecast. What's you're reading now onto where we are in the global economy, how much those central bank right cuts are going to help?

We're here focused very much on climate solutions, on the challenges at the climate crisis has presented us as well, but I want to ask you about the situation facing the global economy. We've had the FED has cut interest rates, it's joined the easing party, that global central banks have been taking in the past couple of months. We're about a month away from the update of the next IMF Global Economic Forecast. What's you're reading now onto where we are in the global economy, how much those central bank right cuts are going to help?

Oh, the global economy has been remarkably resilient, despite the horrendous shocks of the last years, despite of interest rates fighting inflation. For the last more than a year, we have seen global rock growth holding and we project three point two percent this year three point two percent next year.

Oh, the global economy has been remarkably resilient, despite the horrendous shocks of the last years, despite of interest rates fighting inflation. For the last more than a year, we have seen global rock growth holding and we project three point two percent this year three point two percent next year.

The two engines of this.

The two engines of this.

Performance US economy and most of Emerging Asia, especially India Asian we are now seeing interest rates in most economy is going down, and rightly so because we also see the price being paid for interest rates being high. It is affecting somewhat prospects for growth in major economies. Two very important points for your audience. Number One, Yes, growth is holding, but by historic standards it is not high enough to retain good prospects for our economies before the pandemic average growth three point eight percent. Two, we also have very high debt levels, and that combination of slow growth and high debt is something that we at the front worry about. What we want to see is countries taking seriously the importance of fiscal prudence. So the central banks have done their job. They fought inflation. Inflation is going down, rates are going down. We need the fiscal site to be equally committed, and of course we want to see more attention as to what drives growth.

Performance US economy and most of Emerging Asia, especially India Asian we are now seeing interest rates in most economy is going down, and rightly so because we also see the price being paid for interest rates being high. It is affecting somewhat prospects for growth in major economies. Two very important points for your audience. Number One, Yes, growth is holding, but by historic standards it is not high enough to retain good prospects for our economies before the pandemic average growth three point eight percent. Two, we also have very high debt levels, and that combination of slow growth and high debt is something that we at the front worry about. What we want to see is countries taking seriously the importance of fiscal prudence. So the central banks have done their job. They fought inflation. Inflation is going down, rates are going down. We need the fiscal site to be equally committed, and of course we want to see more attention as to what drives growth.

I want to go back to inflation now with the Fed finally making that big mood last week, that have a point card inflation defeated, mission accomplished, done or would you say not necessarily yet?

I want to go back to inflation now with the Fed finally making that big mood last week, that have a point card inflation defeated, mission accomplished, done or would you say not necessarily yet?

Watch it. Yes, we are in a very good place. We have been predicting soft lending. We would see inflation down and growth still remaining firmly in positive territory.

Watch it. Yes, we are in a very good place. We have been predicting soft lending. We would see inflation down and growth still remaining firmly in positive territory.

This is where we are.

This is where we are.

We know that in the services inflation is still flaring a little bit more so the FED is going to watch it.

We know that in the services inflation is still flaring a little bit more so the FED is going to watch it.

But broadly we think that the Fed got it right and we would see.

But broadly we think that the Fed got it right and we would see.

How that evolves in the next meeting of the FAT Not to exclude that could be more cuts.

How that evolves in the next meeting of the FAT Not to exclude that could be more cuts.

But again, why.

But again, why.

Is the FED successful Because it is data driven, so they would watch incommun data very carefully.

Is the FED successful Because it is data driven, so they would watch incommun data very carefully.

I take note that you're worried about the fiscal side, though. How big a risk is what you're hearing in the US election campaign that's going to have a huge impact on US riscal policy.

I take note that you're worried about the fiscal side, though. How big a risk is what you're hearing in the US election campaign that's going to have a huge impact on US riscal policy.

Look, I mean, let's first give credit where credit is due.

Look, I mean, let's first give credit where credit is due.

The US has helped the world economy to stay aflood.

The US has helped the world economy to stay aflood.

In this very difficult time.

In this very difficult time.

So when we think about the response to the pandemic, the response to the war in Ukraine, these spike of energy and food prices, having U economy to perk in the way it did a very good news for everybody.

So when we think about the response to the pandemic, the response to the war in Ukraine, these spike of energy and food prices, having U economy to perk in the way it did a very good news for everybody.

This being said, we have to all think of.

This being said, we have to all think of.

The beast that may be around the corner. What we learned in these last years is that we are in a more shock front world and having fiscal space to act should that become necessary.

The beast that may be around the corner. What we learned in these last years is that we are in a more shock front world and having fiscal space to act should that become necessary.

Is the message we sent to all our members is.

Is the message we sent to all our members is.

That our number one risk the fiscal position of the United States and other Well.

That our number one risk the fiscal position of the United States and other Well.

I mean, the United States has the ability to fund itself in a fairly comfortable manner.

I mean, the United States has the ability to fund itself in a fairly comfortable manner.

What we see in some.

What we see in some.

Other countries they don't quite have that privilege. So the pressure for imminent action, of course, differs in different places. We do we have been saying that make sure that you are not pushing prices up by getting more money into the economy to the economy than the economy can handle.

Other countries they don't quite have that privilege. So the pressure for imminent action, of course, differs in different places. We do we have been saying that make sure that you are not pushing prices up by getting more money into the economy to the economy than the economy can handle.

So be careful.

So be careful.

But you don't worry about the the US Federal Bank in particular that by that half a point contact there maybe are putting a little bit more stimulus when the economy seems to be doing well. Right, there's growth, Yeah, the economy is doing well, Labor markets still sis.

But you don't worry about the the US Federal Bank in particular that by that half a point contact there maybe are putting a little bit more stimulus when the economy seems to be doing well. Right, there's growth, Yeah, the economy is doing well, Labor markets still sis.

You actually are reporting in your program that consumers seem to be saying, well, you're not as confident as we were before. Let's remember that when you have interest rates so high, that has impact, and it is the desired impact to bring inflation down, and the company not so desired to impact.

You actually are reporting in your program that consumers seem to be saying, well, you're not as confident as we were before. Let's remember that when you have interest rates so high, that has impact, and it is the desired impact to bring inflation down, and the company not so desired to impact.

On consumer and business confidence. So my message is the following.

On consumer and business confidence. So my message is the following.

We have to all be very watchful of whether there is risk of inflation to flare up again.

We have to all be very watchful of whether there is risk of inflation to flare up again.

What is happening around the world.

What is happening around the world.

You know, we just saw in the Middle East spike of a war with the accompanying not big but still visible impact on our prices.

You know, we just saw in the Middle East spike of a war with the accompanying not big but still visible impact on our prices.

So we are not.

So we are not.

I mean, as the movie would go, we are not in Kansas anymore. We're in a different world, more shockpron more unpredictable, keep your powder dry, don't use all of it at once.

I mean, as the movie would go, we are not in Kansas anymore. We're in a different world, more shockpron more unpredictable, keep your powder dry, don't use all of it at once.

One of the shocks that did open the global economy is Russia's wore in Ukraine, and the Fund was criticized recently for planning to restart annual economic consultations with Russia.

One of the shocks that did open the global economy is Russia's wore in Ukraine, and the Fund was criticized recently for planning to restart annual economic consultations with Russia.

Whose idea was.

Whose idea was.

That, look, I mean, we have an articles of agreement and they say you have to have regular consultations.

That, look, I mean, we have an articles of agreement and they say you have to have regular consultations.

The Russian case is a very complex case.

The Russian case is a very complex case.

This is not your normal article for so as you know, we have said we need to see whether we have all the data, we need to see whether we are ready, and at this moment.

This is not your normal article for so as you know, we have said we need to see whether we have all the data, we need to see whether we are ready, and at this moment.

We are not.

We are not.

What does that damage the Fund's reputation having that sort of confusion around starting and then stopping.

What does that damage the Fund's reputation having that sort of confusion around starting and then stopping.

I think that the Fund has been incredibly strong over this period of time.

I think that the Fund has been incredibly strong over this period of time.

Of shock upon shock upon shock.

Of shock upon shock upon shock.

We have supplied liquidity to countries that need it. We boosted reserves for countries so they can go through these shocks. And I think our reputation speaks for itself by the fact that our membership is increasing. We just got our one hundred ninety first member, the tiny country of Nstein joining us. Why because we are an anchor in a sea of trouble. So I would argue that when you look at the fund, you have a credible institution.

We have supplied liquidity to countries that need it. We boosted reserves for countries so they can go through these shocks. And I think our reputation speaks for itself by the fact that our membership is increasing. We just got our one hundred ninety first member, the tiny country of Nstein joining us. Why because we are an anchor in a sea of trouble. So I would argue that when you look at the fund, you have a credible institution.

We have come true.

We have come true.

We help the world economy to steal through very difficult times.

We help the world economy to steal through very difficult times.

We will continue to do that.

We will continue to do that.

But is it tricky considering the war and in terms of advising Russia, like how to survive through this when most of the developed world, as you now of course, cities as a horrible war.

But is it tricky considering the war and in terms of advising Russia, like how to survive through this when most of the developed world, as you now of course, cities as a horrible war.

My heart bleeds for the people in Ukraine that have been so harshly hit by Russia's war. I want to see the war ending for the sake of Ukraine and for the sake of the global economy. It was incredibly damaging to the whole world. When we think of this, is it possible to do Article four without enhancing Russia's capabilities? We have to sit back and think twice. And this is what we're doing right now.

My heart bleeds for the people in Ukraine that have been so harshly hit by Russia's war. I want to see the war ending for the sake of Ukraine and for the sake of the global economy. It was incredibly damaging to the whole world. When we think of this, is it possible to do Article four without enhancing Russia's capabilities? We have to sit back and think twice. And this is what we're doing right now.

How long?

How long?

How long will you wait before that is and.

How long will you wait before that is and.

Why are some of our members, I mean, this is our the levels.

Why are some of our members, I mean, this is our the levels.

Some of our members are saying, please, if you're the only institution, no prussure. Other members they're saying, you're the only institution that can come up with some credible assessment. What is happening in Russia, so that is also something that is in the equation. But I'm telling you this is not an adventure we would take ever likely, and I care very deeply for the trust of my membership. We need to be there as an institution that holds strong in a world that has more trouble.

Some of our members are saying, please, if you're the only institution, no prussure. Other members they're saying, you're the only institution that can come up with some credible assessment. What is happening in Russia, so that is also something that is in the equation. But I'm telling you this is not an adventure we would take ever likely, and I care very deeply for the trust of my membership. We need to be there as an institution that holds strong in a world that has more trouble.

I want to ask about Argentina because you guys have and there are some complaints by the Argentinian president about the IMF negotiator. You put in a new negotiator, and we do wonder about, like, what does that signal to other countries when they're maybe not happy with negotiations or policies or the imas.

I want to ask about Argentina because you guys have and there are some complaints by the Argentinian president about the IMF negotiator. You put in a new negotiator, and we do wonder about, like, what does that signal to other countries when they're maybe not happy with negotiations or policies or the imas.

So the answer is very simple.

So the answer is very simple.

It is the negotiator himself who found the situation being propagated. Yeah, how do you negotiate with somebody who does not trust you at all? So it was that negotiator that looked into the situation in Argentina. Does Argentina needs help from the fund?

It is the negotiator himself who found the situation being propagated. Yeah, how do you negotiate with somebody who does not trust you at all? So it was that negotiator that looked into the situation in Argentina. Does Argentina needs help from the fund?

Yes? Do they need our advice? Yes, Well let me send somebody who the president would listen to.

Yes? Do they need our advice? Yes, Well let me send somebody who the president would listen to.

And I can tell you that that was a mature judgment and I stand by this judgment of my staffer great professional, great professional, Rodrigo Valdez. I admire him for the maturity if it has shown in that environment.

And I can tell you that that was a mature judgment and I stand by this judgment of my staffer great professional, great professional, Rodrigo Valdez. I admire him for the maturity if it has shown in that environment.

And are you hopeful for improved relationships with Argentina as a result of that change? Will things proceed more smoothly with the IMS relationship there Argentina?

And are you hopeful for improved relationships with Argentina as a result of that change? Will things proceed more smoothly with the IMS relationship there Argentina?

Argentina faces very very tough problems to solve, and I know that Argentina would only benefit of having the IMF analytically to stand by Argentina and financially to stand by Argentina.

Argentina faces very very tough problems to solve, and I know that Argentina would only benefit of having the IMF analytically to stand by Argentina and financially to stand by Argentina.

And I'm doctor.

And I'm doctor.

I don't know if you realize it, but there's an election going on in the United States, and I am.

I don't know if you realize it, but there's an election going on in the United States, and I am.

Curious.

Curious.

You've got two candidates with radically different positions on a lot of different issues, whether it's trade, immigration, the US's position on the global stage on economic policy. What's your advice for the next president of the United States?

You've got two candidates with radically different positions on a lot of different issues, whether it's trade, immigration, the US's position on the global stage on economic policy. What's your advice for the next president of the United States?

Look, I mean the elections in the United States. This is the choice of the American people. They make this choice, they have a president, and then this president sets up an agenda for the country.

Look, I mean the elections in the United States. This is the choice of the American people. They make this choice, they have a president, and then this president sets up an agenda for the country.

We are always.

We are always.

There for our members to give them our best shot advice.

There for our members to give them our best shot advice.

So you remember worried about the outcome of the US election.

So you remember worried about the outcome of the US election.

The whole of the membership is now facing a word in which sixty percent of people are going to the polls. Yeah, you ask different countries. They have different worries, but are also very amazing stories that I hope you would tell. I was with Professor Hunise Bangladesh.

The whole of the membership is now facing a word in which sixty percent of people are going to the polls. Yeah, you ask different countries. They have different worries, but are also very amazing stories that I hope you would tell. I was with Professor Hunise Bangladesh.

Here is a.

Here is a.

Country in which the youth of the country said, no more corruption.

Country in which the youth of the country said, no more corruption.

We want to turn a page.

We want to turn a page.

And for us supporting this country to turn that page to get a good growth and good prospects for their people.

And for us supporting this country to turn that page to get a good growth and good prospects for their people.

Amazing.

Amazing.

So listening to the younger population always important. Chrisillnigiorg Gava, thank you so much. We so appreciate your time here. Managing Director of course of the International Monetary Fund, Thank you so much.

So listening to the younger population always important. Chrisillnigiorg Gava, thank you so much. We so appreciate your time here. Managing Director of course of the International Monetary Fund, Thank you so much.

Like pleasure, you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple card Play and then brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app or want us Live on YouTube.

Like pleasure, you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple card Play and then brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app or want us Live on YouTube.

O Warm Sick Years a different part maybe of the financial world. It's not necessarily processing by debit cards, but we do want to talk a little bit about what's going on in the regulatory space when it comes to cryptocurrencies and much more. It was a recent IMF working paper that found that crypto mining could generate about seven ten percent of global carbon dioxide missions emissions by twenty twenty seven. We talk about crypto mining and the impact it has on the environment.

O Warm Sick Years a different part maybe of the financial world. It's not necessarily processing by debit cards, but we do want to talk a little bit about what's going on in the regulatory space when it comes to cryptocurrencies and much more. It was a recent IMF working paper that found that crypto mining could generate about seven ten percent of global carbon dioxide missions emissions by twenty twenty seven. We talk about crypto mining and the impact it has on the environment.

Yeah, indeed, and look, it's one of those key issues that we're thinking about. As they say, shee as this sac during crypto has been the focus of so much attention. It's come up basically in the presidential rights this year as well. It's just one of the many issues that we want to get into with the Chairman of the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Russian Banham Russell, who joins us with us here in the Plaza Hotel rus Great to see you, Thanks so much for joining us. Look, we're talking about climate issues first and this is why we're thinking about the impact of crypto, but also more broadly, this is an area that you have lots of tentacles in your regulatory position. Talk to us about the question of environmental impact when it comes to crypto. Where are we thinking about regulation around that, What sort of rules are needed, What does the c FTC have power.

Yeah, indeed, and look, it's one of those key issues that we're thinking about. As they say, shee as this sac during crypto has been the focus of so much attention. It's come up basically in the presidential rights this year as well. It's just one of the many issues that we want to get into with the Chairman of the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Russian Banham Russell, who joins us with us here in the Plaza Hotel rus Great to see you, Thanks so much for joining us. Look, we're talking about climate issues first and this is why we're thinking about the impact of crypto, but also more broadly, this is an area that you have lots of tentacles in your regulatory position. Talk to us about the question of environmental impact when it comes to crypto. Where are we thinking about regulation around that, What sort of rules are needed, What does the c FTC have power.

Over Well, you know, before we even get to the climate impact of crypto and crypto mining, I think the larger question in the US is the regulatory structure, or really the lack of one. I've advocated for almost three years now that there's a gap in regulation, and this is just a product of the way the US regulatory system is set up, multiple agencies, couple market regulators banking regulators, and for better or for worse, we've seen a sustainability in the marketplace, sustained demand by customers, both retail and institutional, and really what we have to do is make sure that we regulate it properly so that customers are protected. Market stability is their market resiliency. If we can get there, and I think that would be my priority, then I think the conversations about climate impact energy usage for mining are important to ask an answer, and I think those have been actually within the domain of questions asked over the past couple of years. A couple efforts by some of the miners to co locate near power sources that are renewable or even nuclear, some other efforts to change the way mining is done to reduce the carbon footprint. But as we worked with Congress over the past couple of years to think about legislative efforts.

Over Well, you know, before we even get to the climate impact of crypto and crypto mining, I think the larger question in the US is the regulatory structure, or really the lack of one. I've advocated for almost three years now that there's a gap in regulation, and this is just a product of the way the US regulatory system is set up, multiple agencies, couple market regulators banking regulators, and for better or for worse, we've seen a sustainability in the marketplace, sustained demand by customers, both retail and institutional, and really what we have to do is make sure that we regulate it properly so that customers are protected. Market stability is their market resiliency. If we can get there, and I think that would be my priority, then I think the conversations about climate impact energy usage for mining are important to ask an answer, and I think those have been actually within the domain of questions asked over the past couple of years. A couple efforts by some of the miners to co locate near power sources that are renewable or even nuclear, some other efforts to change the way mining is done to reduce the carbon footprint. But as we worked with Congress over the past couple of years to think about legislative efforts.

I know this issue specifically was.

I know this issue specifically was.

On their mind, and they wanted to think about disclosures, transparency, information to get to the market so that those economic incentives and preferences can essentially be manifest through decisions about what tokens to buy or not buy.

On their mind, and they wanted to think about disclosures, transparency, information to get to the market so that those economic incentives and preferences can essentially be manifest through decisions about what tokens to buy or not buy.

Well, and the energy component so much an important aspect of the reliability right making sure that it continues to work. I want to go back to the regulatory side. Donald Trump has kind of come out and said he's a friend of crypto. It seems like Kamala Harris's campaign is increasingly embracing towards the crypto world. In terms of your push for more oversight of the crypto world, would you continue to do so under a Harris administration.

Well, and the energy component so much an important aspect of the reliability right making sure that it continues to work. I want to go back to the regulatory side. Donald Trump has kind of come out and said he's a friend of crypto. It seems like Kamala Harris's campaign is increasingly embracing towards the crypto world. In terms of your push for more oversight of the crypto world, would you continue to do so under a Harris administration.

Yeah, and I just to be no matter.

Yeah, and I just to be no matter.

Who and as friendly as they might be.

Who and as friendly as they might be.

Yeah, to be clear, it's oversight driven by regulatory protection and customer protections. This is not me as chair of the CFTC advocating for the industry saying that crypto is going to be the next great thing. This is about my observation as the head of a market regulator saying there is a giant gap in regulation. There are a lot of customers who are either uninformed or don't really know the associated risks with crypto, and we have to put the guardrails around this industry. And those guardrails are the same guardrails that we put around equity markets, derivatives markets, fixed income markets, et cetera. No different, no different, but we have to think about Look, there are going to be differences on custody, cybersecurity. There are components of the financial asset digital assets themselves that are very unique from securities or derivatives. There's no doubt about that. But if we think broadly from a principles based standpoint, the markets structure components that have been put in place for decades and have worked quite well for US markets are the same ones we need to think about for digital assets because there's a lot of questions about the sustainability of digital assets.

Yeah, to be clear, it's oversight driven by regulatory protection and customer protections. This is not me as chair of the CFTC advocating for the industry saying that crypto is going to be the next great thing. This is about my observation as the head of a market regulator saying there is a giant gap in regulation. There are a lot of customers who are either uninformed or don't really know the associated risks with crypto, and we have to put the guardrails around this industry. And those guardrails are the same guardrails that we put around equity markets, derivatives markets, fixed income markets, et cetera. No different, no different, but we have to think about Look, there are going to be differences on custody, cybersecurity. There are components of the financial asset digital assets themselves that are very unique from securities or derivatives. There's no doubt about that. But if we think broadly from a principles based standpoint, the markets structure components that have been put in place for decades and have worked quite well for US markets are the same ones we need to think about for digital assets because there's a lot of questions about the sustainability of digital assets.

But here we are twenty twenty four, moving into twenty twenty five FFTX.

But here we are twenty twenty four, moving into twenty twenty five FFTX.

Other crises finance a lot that we have brought on the enforcement side, and there is still I don't know about insatiable demand, but there is still demand from retail and institutional and they're looking for regulatory structure so that they can increase those flows.

Other crises finance a lot that we have brought on the enforcement side, and there is still I don't know about insatiable demand, but there is still demand from retail and institutional and they're looking for regulatory structure so that they can increase those flows.

How open is the industry to regulation. I mean, it's obviously a conversation that's ongoing, and you've outlined the complexity of how the different agencies work in this front as well.

How open is the industry to regulation. I mean, it's obviously a conversation that's ongoing, and you've outlined the complexity of how the different agencies work in this front as well.

Are they engaging?

Are they engaging?

Is this something that you're actually able to see productive results that won't tend up in a risk of overregulation.

Is this something that you're actually able to see productive results that won't tend up in a risk of overregulation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this is really the tricky part of this because I think I argue this often the US capital markets are the best in the world because of the regulatory structure we have, because of the legal structure we have, because of the accountability there is for bad actors and those who violate the law.

So this is really the tricky part of this because I think I argue this often the US capital markets are the best in the world because of the regulatory structure we have, because of the legal structure we have, because of the accountability there is for bad actors and those who violate the law.

So there are many actors.

So there are many actors.

I can't speak for the entire crypto community, but there are many who have been very engaged with Washington, both in Congress and the executive branch to see what kind of regulatory structure could work around digital assets. Will this benefit them most likely? I've said this publicly in the past. Again, to my point, US regulation is the reason in part why US capital markets are the strongest, deepest, and most liquid in the world. So they see a benefit to regulation. The word often thrown around is legitimacy. But again I want to pull back to what my responsibilities are, Protecting customers, protecting market resiliency and in essence sometimes financial stability. And as I continue to see this market ebb and flow and go through it's sort of organic growth, I can't help but raise a red flag and say, look, we're seeing this market grow.

I can't speak for the entire crypto community, but there are many who have been very engaged with Washington, both in Congress and the executive branch to see what kind of regulatory structure could work around digital assets. Will this benefit them most likely? I've said this publicly in the past. Again, to my point, US regulation is the reason in part why US capital markets are the strongest, deepest, and most liquid in the world. So they see a benefit to regulation. The word often thrown around is legitimacy. But again I want to pull back to what my responsibilities are, Protecting customers, protecting market resiliency and in essence sometimes financial stability. And as I continue to see this market ebb and flow and go through it's sort of organic growth, I can't help but raise a red flag and say, look, we're seeing this market grow.

We need to protect customers.

We need to protect customers.

That's what would you say in terms of the powers that are necessary in order for any kind of regulation over crypto by the CFTC to really work.

That's what would you say in terms of the powers that are necessary in order for any kind of regulation over crypto by the CFTC to really work.

Yeah, this is a unique part, like we have two market regulators CFTC SEC. There is a question about around some tokens. I've articulated and advocated that bigcoin and Ether are commodities under existing law.

Yeah, this is a unique part, like we have two market regulators CFTC SEC. There is a question about around some tokens. I've articulated and advocated that bigcoin and Ether are commodities under existing law.

Congress wants to change existing law.

Congress wants to change existing law.

That's we still debate.

That's we still debate.

Sure, but look, we've brought a lot of enforcement cases and we bring them through. You know, the authority we have over commodity assets, which in many cases is bitcoin and ethereum, But ultimately it's registration of exchanges, it's registration of broker dealers, it's registration of custodians, clearing houses, data repositories, the same again, core components and core regulatory tools that we use, and with those registration requirements come ability to surveil markets, ability to collect data, and ability to examine market participants.

Sure, but look, we've brought a lot of enforcement cases and we bring them through. You know, the authority we have over commodity assets, which in many cases is bitcoin and ethereum, But ultimately it's registration of exchanges, it's registration of broker dealers, it's registration of custodians, clearing houses, data repositories, the same again, core components and core regulatory tools that we use, and with those registration requirements come ability to surveil markets, ability to collect data, and ability to examine market participants.

What is from what you're hearing from the election campaign because we ask about it, because it's coming up with alarming regularity, some would say, in how often it's mentioned, what are you hearing that sounds like a good idea or that sounds like a bad idea in terms of where regular regulation should be going from here.

What is from what you're hearing from the election campaign because we ask about it, because it's coming up with alarming regularity, some would say, in how often it's mentioned, what are you hearing that sounds like a good idea or that sounds like a bad idea in terms of where regular regulation should be going from here.

So, look, we don't want to undermine existing law. We don't want to change existing protections that exist for markets like derivatives like stocks and bonds.

So, look, we don't want to undermine existing law. We don't want to change existing protections that exist for markets like derivatives like stocks and bonds.

We want to apply what.

We want to apply what.

We've learned and what we have in terms of authority to regulate markets to crypto. And it's about engagement. It's about understanding what the technology is. It's understanding what new risks or new variations on existing regulatory tools we would have to apply. But I often go and I've had conversations with lawmakers in both the Senate the House. There have been a lot of really interesting efforts, and credit to those who have led the way in both the House and the Senate to draft bills to contemplate giving the CFDC the authority. It's a unique circumstance where the CFTC regulates commodity derivatives markets but not the underlying markets. So we have this gap in commodity cash markets or spot markets, and this is where we find ourselves with digital assets.

We've learned and what we have in terms of authority to regulate markets to crypto. And it's about engagement. It's about understanding what the technology is. It's understanding what new risks or new variations on existing regulatory tools we would have to apply. But I often go and I've had conversations with lawmakers in both the Senate the House. There have been a lot of really interesting efforts, and credit to those who have led the way in both the House and the Senate to draft bills to contemplate giving the CFDC the authority. It's a unique circumstance where the CFTC regulates commodity derivatives markets but not the underlying markets. So we have this gap in commodity cash markets or spot markets, and this is where we find ourselves with digital assets.

All right, So we're still trying to figure out digital assets. Let me throw artificial intelligence into the mix, right increasingly not new finance community has been using it for a long time. I do wonder if you guys are planning what tools you need to have in place to kind of oversee that aspect.

All right, So we're still trying to figure out digital assets. Let me throw artificial intelligence into the mix, right increasingly not new finance community has been using it for a long time. I do wonder if you guys are planning what tools you need to have in place to kind of oversee that aspect.

So, yeah, it's important question.

So, yeah, it's important question.

And at this point, almost nine or ten months ago, we put out an advisory, a request for comment, a consultation document, and in my mind, the steps we needed to take as an agency was one information gathering engagement, getting better and smarter ourselves so that we can think about what existing rules apply to AI and where there may be gaps in the space. So we're working through some of those comments. I'm hopefully going to come out with some form of advisory guidance in the near future, but it really is contingent on us being thoughtful about how AI has been used thus far and how it may be used in the future.

And at this point, almost nine or ten months ago, we put out an advisory, a request for comment, a consultation document, and in my mind, the steps we needed to take as an agency was one information gathering engagement, getting better and smarter ourselves so that we can think about what existing rules apply to AI and where there may be gaps in the space. So we're working through some of those comments. I'm hopefully going to come out with some form of advisory guidance in the near future, but it really is contingent on us being thoughtful about how AI has been used thus far and how it may be used in the future.

Are you talking to big tech about this?

Are you talking to big tech about this?

We look when we consult, we are as we cast a very wide net. We want to learn from everyone, and that not only includes the individuals who are directly registered or participate in our markets, but it certainly is the tech companies who are building these AI platforms and models that are essentially being used by.

We look when we consult, we are as we cast a very wide net. We want to learn from everyone, and that not only includes the individuals who are directly registered or participate in our markets, but it certainly is the tech companies who are building these AI platforms and models that are essentially being used by.

The financial institutions.

The financial institutions.

We're here, of course talking about climate issues, the globe of business form or kinds of that. The start of it now in just over thirty minutes time. This CFTC recently product guidance on voluntary carbon credits. I'm curious about the voluntary nature of that and whether that's something that's going to be relevant and enforceable, given that that's the framing that we're given on this area.

We're here, of course talking about climate issues, the globe of business form or kinds of that. The start of it now in just over thirty minutes time. This CFTC recently product guidance on voluntary carbon credits. I'm curious about the voluntary nature of that and whether that's something that's going to be relevant and enforceable, given that that's the framing that we're given on this area.

Yeah. So not unlike crypto in some respects.

Yeah. So not unlike crypto in some respects.

We've seen voluntary carbon credit futures contracts listed over the past couple of year, derivatives and once we have futures and derivatives listed on our registered exchanges.

We've seen voluntary carbon credit futures contracts listed over the past couple of year, derivatives and once we have futures and derivatives listed on our registered exchanges.

I use this phrase a lot.

I use this phrase a lot.

We have as an agency of vested interest in the health of the underlying market, and in this case it's a voluntary carbon market. We want to make sure there's resilience in health and high integrity in that cash market, so it's reflected in the markets we regulate. Ultimately, from a broad perspective, if we're going to transition and hit our twenty fifty targets, our one point five target, we're going to need voluntary carbon markets.

We have as an agency of vested interest in the health of the underlying market, and in this case it's a voluntary carbon market. We want to make sure there's resilience in health and high integrity in that cash market, so it's reflected in the markets we regulate. Ultimately, from a broad perspective, if we're going to transition and hit our twenty fifty targets, our one point five target, we're going to need voluntary carbon markets.

We're not going to be able to wean.

We're not going to be able to wean.

Ourselves off of coal and some fossil based carbon based energy sources, so we're going to need a way to allocate capital transition to the Global South and other nations that need to transition to low carbon intensive energy sources.

Ourselves off of coal and some fossil based carbon based energy sources, so we're going to need a way to allocate capital transition to the Global South and other nations that need to transition to low carbon intensive energy sources.

Twenty seconds Election betting. I know you guys don't like it. You've recently lost a court case very quickly. Nothing you'll warm up to.

Twenty seconds Election betting. I know you guys don't like it. You've recently lost a court case very quickly. Nothing you'll warm up to.

It's not about what I like or don't like. It's not about what the agency likes or doesn't like. It's about what the law says, and the law, in our view, says that election betting is against the law.

It's not about what I like or don't like. It's not about what the agency likes or doesn't like. It's about what the law says, and the law, in our view, says that election betting is against the law.

Right west Manham, thanks very much for joining us the FTZ chair.

Right west Manham, thanks very much for joining us the FTZ chair.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business ad. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty, talking a lot.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business ad. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty, talking a lot.

About, as you know, about climate change and climate initiatives. Having said that, let's just throw out a couple of stats in terms of setting the stage when it comes to win. The World Economic Forum says that last year the global wind industry installed a could one hundred and seventeen gigawatts of new capacity. That's a fifty percent increase from the previous year. Countries across the globe we are investing in both onshore and offshore wind capacities. China leading the pack, adding substantially new capacity annually, and of course we know that's because they get a lot of support by the government and they've got a very ambitious five year plan.

About, as you know, about climate change and climate initiatives. Having said that, let's just throw out a couple of stats in terms of setting the stage when it comes to win. The World Economic Forum says that last year the global wind industry installed a could one hundred and seventeen gigawatts of new capacity. That's a fifty percent increase from the previous year. Countries across the globe we are investing in both onshore and offshore wind capacities. China leading the pack, adding substantially new capacity annually, and of course we know that's because they get a lot of support by the government and they've got a very ambitious five year plan.

Yeah, this is all you know, we're thinking again about about twenty thirty deadline to triple renewables capacity, one of the pay goals set at last year's un Climate So much so to talk about the journey as to how we get there and how the industry is dealing with this. We've got Ben Bakewell with us here in the plaza, CEO of the Global Wind Energy Council, international organization dedicated to promoting wind power as a key solution as we're thinking about renewables mix as well. Let's talk about where we are on the journey to win power. We just talked through the great year of expanding capacity. Where does that get us on that goal that we're looking towards twenty thirty tripling renewables capacity.

Yeah, this is all you know, we're thinking again about about twenty thirty deadline to triple renewables capacity, one of the pay goals set at last year's un Climate So much so to talk about the journey as to how we get there and how the industry is dealing with this. We've got Ben Bakewell with us here in the plaza, CEO of the Global Wind Energy Council, international organization dedicated to promoting wind power as a key solution as we're thinking about renewables mix as well. Let's talk about where we are on the journey to win power. We just talked through the great year of expanding capacity. Where does that get us on that goal that we're looking towards twenty thirty tripling renewables capacity.

Well, the good news is that we're going quite far in terms of expanding, as you said, a record year, and we expect to break those records every single year going forward.

Well, the good news is that we're going quite far in terms of expanding, as you said, a record year, and we expect to break those records every single year going forward.

The bad news is.

The bad news is.

That we're not on a trajectory to triple renewables. We're probably on a kind of doubling trajectory by twenty thirty. So we go one hundred and seventeen last year. We think we're going to be one hundred and thirty this year, one hundred and forty eight next year. So it's building, but we probably need to be growing about maybe twice as fast to be on a net.

That we're not on a trajectory to triple renewables. We're probably on a kind of doubling trajectory by twenty thirty. So we go one hundred and seventeen last year. We think we're going to be one hundred and thirty this year, one hundred and forty eight next year. So it's building, but we probably need to be growing about maybe twice as fast to be on a net.

Zero Why aren't we.

Zero Why aren't we.

Well, there's a number of reasons. I think The main reason is that everything is just too slow. So planning around the world continues to be a barrier. I mean, it takes twice or three times as long to plan and permit an offshore wind farm that it does to actually build one. So in terms of the technology, the capacity to build it's there. In terms of red tape and bureaucracy, we've got a long way to go. So that's probably number one. And then secondly, we're facing some market imbalance as well. I mean there's being kind of race to the bottom pricing in some areas, which has then led to the projects not being profitable. We've had about of inflation. You've seen in the impact a couple of you know, a year ago in the US some of the projects had to go back and renegotiate because of inflation. So there's some there's some new kind of head winds. But we're we're we're speeding up, and we're we're going.

Well, there's a number of reasons. I think The main reason is that everything is just too slow. So planning around the world continues to be a barrier. I mean, it takes twice or three times as long to plan and permit an offshore wind farm that it does to actually build one. So in terms of the technology, the capacity to build it's there. In terms of red tape and bureaucracy, we've got a long way to go. So that's probably number one. And then secondly, we're facing some market imbalance as well. I mean there's being kind of race to the bottom pricing in some areas, which has then led to the projects not being profitable. We've had about of inflation. You've seen in the impact a couple of you know, a year ago in the US some of the projects had to go back and renegotiate because of inflation. So there's some there's some new kind of head winds. But we're we're we're speeding up, and we're we're going.

Where we need to quite about public money incentives and all of this as well. I mean it's something that you know, we think about the Green Deal in the U Inflation Production Act. Here in the US, are the public incentives actually doing the job. They're supposed to in boasting expansion or is it being undone by the obstacles that you're talking about.

Where we need to quite about public money incentives and all of this as well. I mean it's something that you know, we think about the Green Deal in the U Inflation Production Act. Here in the US, are the public incentives actually doing the job. They're supposed to in boasting expansion or is it being undone by the obstacles that you're talking about.

So generally we don't need subsidy financing for the projects, right because our level of cost of energy is competitive with pretty much anything out there, especially vis a vis oil and gas fire projects in nuclears. So generally we don't need subsidy. Having said that, this place is especially in the Global South and the emerging world, where they're just getting started and where the initial projects will be more expensive than the projects and the mature markets.

So generally we don't need subsidy financing for the projects, right because our level of cost of energy is competitive with pretty much anything out there, especially vis a vis oil and gas fire projects in nuclears. So generally we don't need subsidy. Having said that, this place is especially in the Global South and the emerging world, where they're just getting started and where the initial projects will be more expensive than the projects and the mature markets.

Right.

Right.

So if you think of somewhere like the Philippines of Southeast Age, I mean, they're starting from a virtual standing start. They've got to build the infrastructure, they've got to build the grid, they've got to build the ports, and so there's a kind of gap I think in financing for some of those emerging markets.

So if you think of somewhere like the Philippines of Southeast Age, I mean, they're starting from a virtual standing start. They've got to build the infrastructure, they've got to build the grid, they've got to build the ports, and so there's a kind of gap I think in financing for some of those emerging markets.

Countries where's the growth offshore?

Countries where's the growth offshore?

So on shore is still the biggest part of the market, but offshore is growing faster, So the compound growth rate for offshore is faster. On Shore is still you know, eighty five percent of the market. And what's interesting is that the onshore market is really picking up again with new countries. So Germany's really speeded up. The US we're expecting to really speed up from this year onwards. Right, So the IRA has had the transformative effect on the onshore market. It's taken a little bit longer than we fought, but we can really see now the construction starts in a huge amount of projects in construction. So from next year we'll really start to see the US on shore market really take off. And then there's India speeding up as well. There's Australia's doing really well, and there's a bunch of new markets that are growing as well.

So on shore is still the biggest part of the market, but offshore is growing faster, So the compound growth rate for offshore is faster. On Shore is still you know, eighty five percent of the market. And what's interesting is that the onshore market is really picking up again with new countries. So Germany's really speeded up. The US we're expecting to really speed up from this year onwards. Right, So the IRA has had the transformative effect on the onshore market. It's taken a little bit longer than we fought, but we can really see now the construction starts in a huge amount of projects in construction. So from next year we'll really start to see the US on shore market really take off. And then there's India speeding up as well. There's Australia's doing really well, and there's a bunch of new markets that are growing as well.

The red tape issues that you talk about, what is the message you're getting from policymakers on that. I'm sure this is something that you're engaging with them regularly on it. You were speaking to leaders here at your event here too.

The red tape issues that you talk about, what is the message you're getting from policymakers on that. I'm sure this is something that you're engaging with them regularly on it. You were speaking to leaders here at your event here too.

I'm keen to know how exactly that conversation is going.

I'm keen to know how exactly that conversation is going.

Are people Is it coming back to people don't want wind farms near their homes? Is it much more complex? And now this is a systems problem, where's the roadblock?

Are people Is it coming back to people don't want wind farms near their homes? Is it much more complex? And now this is a systems problem, where's the roadblock?

I'd say it's mainly a systems problem, and there's been quite a lot of recognition around this problem for the last few years. I mean, we studied at COP twenty six in Glasgow three four years ago we started really trying to put this on the agenda. It kind of sounds like a bit of a boring issue and so it's kind of hard to get people's attention around it. You know, it's about permitting after all, but it's pretty important. And what's happened since then is a number of countries aparst seeing new regulations and new laws. For instance, in Germany, I mean they've now made permitting off your wind farms what they call overriding national interest. So that means that in the legal system, unless there's a very good reason to object, the project will be approved. Right, So changes like that are good.

I'd say it's mainly a systems problem, and there's been quite a lot of recognition around this problem for the last few years. I mean, we studied at COP twenty six in Glasgow three four years ago we started really trying to put this on the agenda. It kind of sounds like a bit of a boring issue and so it's kind of hard to get people's attention around it. You know, it's about permitting after all, but it's pretty important. And what's happened since then is a number of countries aparst seeing new regulations and new laws. For instance, in Germany, I mean they've now made permitting off your wind farms what they call overriding national interest. So that means that in the legal system, unless there's a very good reason to object, the project will be approved. Right, So changes like that are good.

I wanted to ask you about a particularation that came up in Europe this summer, when we had such production coming out of particularly Spain and Norway, that the price of power dropped below zero, which kind of sounds in some ways like a huge triumph. It doesn't make for a great business case. How do you sort of address that problem, which is down to storage?

I wanted to ask you about a particularation that came up in Europe this summer, when we had such production coming out of particularly Spain and Norway, that the price of power dropped below zero, which kind of sounds in some ways like a huge triumph. It doesn't make for a great business case. How do you sort of address that problem, which is down to storage?

Really yeah, I mean I think it's a real problem and I'm seeing it. You know, as you are in more and more markets at different times, and it's partly a function of having just a lot more variable power on the system, so a lot of solar and a lot of wind, which means that at certain times a day you've got a real abundance of power and the system. But it's ultimately down to two things. What is the market design to make sure that the market design is kind of built around those new sources of energy. And secondly, it's about interconnectivity. So obviously, the more connected you are, and this goes to Iberia right in Spain and Portugal, the more connected you are to the rest of Europe, the more you're the more the market will will work in a balanced way. Right, So we've got to work more on grid connectivity and connectivity generally around the system.

Really yeah, I mean I think it's a real problem and I'm seeing it. You know, as you are in more and more markets at different times, and it's partly a function of having just a lot more variable power on the system, so a lot of solar and a lot of wind, which means that at certain times a day you've got a real abundance of power and the system. But it's ultimately down to two things. What is the market design to make sure that the market design is kind of built around those new sources of energy. And secondly, it's about interconnectivity. So obviously, the more connected you are, and this goes to Iberia right in Spain and Portugal, the more connected you are to the rest of Europe, the more you're the more the market will will work in a balanced way. Right, So we've got to work more on grid connectivity and connectivity generally around the system.

Right.

Right.

You know, in the United States, in particular, I spend a lot of time in the water and for the first time, so you know, the turn wines off of some of the islands in the United States. But I just do wonder there is a pushback. It feels like, whether it's you know, Nantucket or Black Island or something where people are pushing back on some of these how does that perception change in the United States?

You know, in the United States, in particular, I spend a lot of time in the water and for the first time, so you know, the turn wines off of some of the islands in the United States. But I just do wonder there is a pushback. It feels like, whether it's you know, Nantucket or Black Island or something where people are pushing back on some of these how does that perception change in the United States?

How do we get there?

How do we get there?

Yeah, I mean i'd separate two things maybe. So the first thing is people's genuine concern over the impact and the impact on nature, environmental which has an industry.

Yeah, I mean i'd separate two things maybe. So the first thing is people's genuine concern over the impact and the impact on nature, environmental which has an industry.

We're very chuted too.

We're very chuted too.

And after all, you know, most of us here because we care about climate change in the environment, and so we want to do things in a way that's the best possible way possible, that off your Wind farms are nature positive and so on. So that's genuine, and I think the way to do that is to ensure the highest quality, the best standards of consultation, working with communities and so on. Now, the other issue is disinformation and organized disinformation I think is something that the renewables industry as a whole should be paying a lot more attention to, and civil society journalists editors should be paying a lot more.

And after all, you know, most of us here because we care about climate change in the environment, and so we want to do things in a way that's the best possible way possible, that off your Wind farms are nature positive and so on. So that's genuine, and I think the way to do that is to ensure the highest quality, the best standards of consultation, working with communities and so on. Now, the other issue is disinformation and organized disinformation I think is something that the renewables industry as a whole should be paying a lot more attention to, and civil society journalists editors should be paying a lot more.

Attention to it.

Attention to it.

I mean, we've seen organize this information around off your Wind, so the idea that off your Wind is somehow killing whales even when there is no construction going on at that time, and organized disinformation with AI generated images surporting to show marine wildlife has been harmed by off your winds that has then copied and paste took places like Australia, It's been copied and pasted into places like Europe.

I mean, we've seen organize this information around off your Wind, so the idea that off your Wind is somehow killing whales even when there is no construction going on at that time, and organized disinformation with AI generated images surporting to show marine wildlife has been harmed by off your winds that has then copied and paste took places like Australia, It's been copied and pasted into places like Europe.

Right.

Right.

That is that's disinformation.

That is that's disinformation.

That's another conference. The misinformation that's out there like take your industry right, it's really it makes it much more difficult.

That's another conference. The misinformation that's out there like take your industry right, it's really it makes it much more difficult.

Ben.

Ben.

Thank you though for the finding time for us very much having me. Yeah, we appreciate Ben bake Well, the CEO of the Global Wind Energy Council.

Thank you though for the finding time for us very much having me. Yeah, we appreciate Ben bake Well, the CEO of the Global Wind Energy Council.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal