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This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

This is Bloomberg business Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

A couple legal actions we want to get to you right now.

A couple legal actions we want to get to you right now.

First of all, earlier today Google partially losing a US advertising tech antitrust case, and just moments ago, the US Supreme Court saying we'll hear arguments on President Trump's bid to start enforcing an executive order that would restrict automatic birthright citizenship and upend a longstanding constitutional right.

First of all, earlier today Google partially losing a US advertising tech antitrust case, and just moments ago, the US Supreme Court saying we'll hear arguments on President Trump's bid to start enforcing an executive order that would restrict automatic birthright citizenship and upend a longstanding constitutional right.

The Court saying today.

The Court saying today.

Will keep his restrictions on hold in advance of that May fifteenth argument.

Will keep his restrictions on hold in advance of that May fifteenth argument.

I want to bring in Bloomberg News team leader Sarah Ford and Sarah joins us from our Washington DC bureau. I want to start with the Supreme Court setting to hear arguments in the birthright sistemship case. How does this work? Give us the sort of schoolhouse rock version of how the Supreme Court could change what is written in the US Constitution.

I want to bring in Bloomberg News team leader Sarah Ford and Sarah joins us from our Washington DC bureau. I want to start with the Supreme Court setting to hear arguments in the birthright sistemship case. How does this work? Give us the sort of schoolhouse rock version of how the Supreme Court could change what is written in the US Constitution.

Well, I mean this has been, as you said, a longstanding belief of constitutional scholars and others that the right to birthright citizenship is sacrosanct. So the fact that they are willing to take this up and to start to parse it and consider the restrictions that are being proposed by the Trump administration means that this right could potentially be in play going forward.

Well, I mean this has been, as you said, a longstanding belief of constitutional scholars and others that the right to birthright citizenship is sacrosanct. So the fact that they are willing to take this up and to start to parse it and consider the restrictions that are being proposed by the Trump administration means that this right could potentially be in play going forward.

So what's next May fifteenth?

So what's next May fifteenth?

Is that what we focus So, as you said, the restrictions are on hold for now, but May fifteenth will be a closely closely followed arguments. This usually takes several hours where we listen attentively to what each of the justices the questions that they're asking and how that might indicate what they're thinking.

Is that what we focus So, as you said, the restrictions are on hold for now, but May fifteenth will be a closely closely followed arguments. This usually takes several hours where we listen attentively to what each of the justices the questions that they're asking and how that might indicate what they're thinking.

Is I mean, this.

Is I mean, this.

Would be a significant change in a policy that's been standing.

Would be a significant change in a policy that's been standing.

Yeah, I mean this has been sacri saying that the children of people who are non citizens who are born in this country have the right to American citizenship. So this will go to hospitals across the country when babies are born. Are they going to give those babies a Social Security number or not? And so this could start to roll back that, and it's part of the Trump administration's larger, very aggressive crackdown on immigration to this country over multiple What.

Yeah, I mean this has been sacri saying that the children of people who are non citizens who are born in this country have the right to American citizenship. So this will go to hospitals across the country when babies are born. Are they going to give those babies a Social Security number or not? And so this could start to roll back that, and it's part of the Trump administration's larger, very aggressive crackdown on immigration to this country over multiple What.

Is the legal case here, because in the Section one of the fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, it does go into the fact that all persons born or naturalized in the US are subject and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the US and the state wherein they reside. Is the Supreme Court challenging the meaning of that.

Is the legal case here, because in the Section one of the fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, it does go into the fact that all persons born or naturalized in the US are subject and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the US and the state wherein they reside. Is the Supreme Court challenging the meaning of that.

That clause subject to the jurisdiction thereof is the one that is being put into question, and the questions whether these non citizens who are here are really subject to the jurisdiction. And so that is what they're going to tease out in part during these arguments.

That clause subject to the jurisdiction thereof is the one that is being put into question, and the questions whether these non citizens who are here are really subject to the jurisdiction. And so that is what they're going to tease out in part during these arguments.

So I am curious, what did you just happen? Oh, I'm sorry, there's a lot of stuff happening.

So I am curious, what did you just happen? Oh, I'm sorry, there's a lot of stuff happening.

Yeah, producers are talking to Carol, So I'm jumping in a little bit. I was asking specifically about Section one of the fourteenth Defendment, okay, and how that is open to interpretation with this legal case.

Yeah, producers are talking to Carol, So I'm jumping in a little bit. I was asking specifically about Section one of the fourteenth Defendment, okay, and how that is open to interpretation with this legal case.

Sorry, it's one of those kind of days and kind of these weeks in one of these kind of years. I want to flip to Google and the case there of Google partially losing a US advertising tech anti trust case. This was a federal judge finding Google to have legally illegally monopolize some online ad technology markets in a blow to what is a really key part of Google's business.

Sorry, it's one of those kind of days and kind of these weeks in one of these kind of years. I want to flip to Google and the case there of Google partially losing a US advertising tech anti trust case. This was a federal judge finding Google to have legally illegally monopolize some online ad technology markets in a blow to what is a really key part of Google's business.

Walk us through this one.

Walk us through this one.

Yeah, absolutely. This is the second major ruling against Google in a tech anti trust case. And this case has to do with the pipeline that Underpins's advertising business. So they control the technology soup to nuts, from the ad servers to the putting these ads on websites. And this judge found that Google monopolizes the part that has to do with the ad server tools. And I know this is all very wonky, but it goes back to their acquisition of a company called double Click in two thousand.

Yeah, absolutely. This is the second major ruling against Google in a tech anti trust case. And this case has to do with the pipeline that Underpins's advertising business. So they control the technology soup to nuts, from the ad servers to the putting these ads on websites. And this judge found that Google monopolizes the part that has to do with the ad server tools. And I know this is all very wonky, but it goes back to their acquisition of a company called double Click in two thousand.

That was so long ago, long ago.

That was so long ago, long ago.

So the DOJ actually is in the remedy portion of this case, which will follow today's decision, is DJ is asking for the judge to order Google to sell off that double Click unit. But of course, over the years it has been integrated into their business, and so it's kind of like trying to unscramble the omelet.

So the DOJ actually is in the remedy portion of this case, which will follow today's decision, is DJ is asking for the judge to order Google to sell off that double Click unit. But of course, over the years it has been integrated into their business, and so it's kind of like trying to unscramble the omelet.

So is there an appeal coming to we assume so Kenny.

So is there an appeal coming to we assume so Kenny.

Google has already said they will appeal this part of the case. They did win the part of the case that has to do with display ads, so so they're safe on that count. But all of this marks a bigger reckoning for the tech companies that have gotten so powerful, and it shows that we have a rare little spot of bipartisan consensus on antitrust and limiting the power of big tech because these cases have been taken forward both by the first Trump administration who filed the first Google case which was about search, and the metacase, which is currently playing out in another DC courtroom, and they were carried forward by the Biden administration. So we're not seeing a lot of light between conservatives and liberals on these cases.

Google has already said they will appeal this part of the case. They did win the part of the case that has to do with display ads, so so they're safe on that count. But all of this marks a bigger reckoning for the tech companies that have gotten so powerful, and it shows that we have a rare little spot of bipartisan consensus on antitrust and limiting the power of big tech because these cases have been taken forward both by the first Trump administration who filed the first Google case which was about search, and the metacase, which is currently playing out in another DC courtroom, and they were carried forward by the Biden administration. So we're not seeing a lot of light between conservatives and liberals on these cases.

Just real quickly, just about twenty seconds here, sour. So that's what I was going to ask, because we know this was a kind of second major blow to Google that was already found to have monopolized the online search market in a separate case.

Just real quickly, just about twenty seconds here, sour. So that's what I was going to ask, because we know this was a kind of second major blow to Google that was already found to have monopolized the online search market in a separate case.

Is this all Google.

Is this all Google.

Specific or I kind of get the feeling it's a larger message here for some of those big tech guys.

Specific or I kind of get the feeling it's a larger message here for some of those big tech guys.

Just quickly.

Just quickly.

This is a larger message and we have cases running now against Amazon, Meta, Apple, and Google. So yes, it's broad all right.

This is a larger message and we have cases running now against Amazon, Meta, Apple, and Google. So yes, it's broad all right.

Just thinking, I'm just thinking of those CEOs of those companies were all at the inauguration. I think they were. I believe they were just making sure.

Just thinking, I'm just thinking of those CEOs of those companies were all at the inauguration. I think they were. I believe they were just making sure.

Yeah, it's working out well, cool, all right.

Yeah, it's working out well, cool, all right.

Bloomberg News Legal team leader Sarah Fordon, thank you so much. We really appreciate you joining us.

Bloomberg News Legal team leader Sarah Fordon, thank you so much. We really appreciate you joining us.

You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

We want to stay with the future of j. Powell.

We want to stay with the future of j. Powell.

Of course, the fed share things have just come out of this press conference that is ongoing here in the White House again the President making another comment he should do the right cuts. So we want to kind of get into this, and we have a great voice we do.

Of course, the fed share things have just come out of this press conference that is ongoing here in the White House again the President making another comment he should do the right cuts. So we want to kind of get into this, and we have a great voice we do.

Let's bring in Katerina Sariva. She joins us from Houston, also with us as Michael McKee's Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy correspondent. He joins us here in the studio. I do want to start with you, because you have been monitoring these Powell or these Trump comments. I should say, in the context of what we heard from j. Powell yesterday, you were there in Chicago, just give me your impression of what we're hearing from the President right now and what the message is that he has for the Federal Reserve.

Let's bring in Katerina Sariva. She joins us from Houston, also with us as Michael McKee's Bloomberg News International Economics and Policy correspondent. He joins us here in the studio. I do want to start with you, because you have been monitoring these Powell or these Trump comments. I should say, in the context of what we heard from j. Powell yesterday, you were there in Chicago, just give me your impression of what we're hearing from the President right now and what the message is that he has for the Federal Reserve.

At the moment, I'm still seeing this as saber rattling, trying to influence the FED. The President said this morning he is a word termination. Other White House officials have told other networks that he didn't mean firing him, And then today in the Oval office, they said, are you trying to get rid of him? And he said, yeah, yeah, But what does that really mean. We know he doesn't like Powell, and we know he doesn't like the fact that the FED is not cutting interest rates as the president would like, but there isn't There's a real debate about whether the President has any power to get rid of the FED chair, which we can go into later. But I don't think that we're necessarily any closer to Powell being ousted or an attempt to oust him by the President. But I think that because Powell spoke yesterday and gave the impression they're not going to cut rates soon, that he's just venting again on the FED chair.

At the moment, I'm still seeing this as saber rattling, trying to influence the FED. The President said this morning he is a word termination. Other White House officials have told other networks that he didn't mean firing him, And then today in the Oval office, they said, are you trying to get rid of him? And he said, yeah, yeah, But what does that really mean. We know he doesn't like Powell, and we know he doesn't like the fact that the FED is not cutting interest rates as the president would like, but there isn't There's a real debate about whether the President has any power to get rid of the FED chair, which we can go into later. But I don't think that we're necessarily any closer to Powell being ousted or an attempt to oust him by the President. But I think that because Powell spoke yesterday and gave the impression they're not going to cut rates soon, that he's just venting again on the FED chair.

I mean, you can't fire a FED chair just because you don't like their policy, can you.

I mean, you can't fire a FED chair just because you don't like their policy, can you.

Well, is that I don't.

Well, is that I don't.

Know, is that?

Know, is that?

Cause?

Cause?

Like I said, we can go into the whole background. But in theory, legal experts say that's not cause, causes malfeasance or illegality or something like that. The question is not so much cause. It's this whole Article two issue about whether the president has unfettered ability to run everything in the executive branch, including what are supposed to be independent agencies.

Like I said, we can go into the whole background. But in theory, legal experts say that's not cause, causes malfeasance or illegality or something like that. The question is not so much cause. It's this whole Article two issue about whether the president has unfettered ability to run everything in the executive branch, including what are supposed to be independent agencies.

Well, and to that, there are some legal actions that are out there that are testing the limits of presidential authority to remove agency officials without cause. I want to just bring in Bloomberg News Federal Reserve reporter Katerina Sariva, who's with us from Houston. Katerina, what do we know about these cases and what it could possibly potentially I want to be careful here, but what it could mean in terms of the presidential authority to possibly get rid of the FED chair.

Well, and to that, there are some legal actions that are out there that are testing the limits of presidential authority to remove agency officials without cause. I want to just bring in Bloomberg News Federal Reserve reporter Katerina Sariva, who's with us from Houston. Katerina, what do we know about these cases and what it could possibly potentially I want to be careful here, but what it could mean in terms of the presidential authority to possibly get rid of the FED chair.

Yeah, I mean that's you know, as Mike was just saying, the big question. So we have a couple cases that have kind of filtered their way through the federal court system and will are expected to be taken up by the Supreme Court soon. So these are kind of They both have to do with what's called Humphries Executor, which is a provision from nineteen thirty five, a Supreme Court ruling that found that the president could not unilaterally fire members of boards. Now the Supreme Court has already chipped away at that a little bit. There was a twenty twenty decision about the CFPB that said, when it's a single directory, the President does have that authority to to fire that person. But the open question is kind of how it applies still to multi member boards. So the decisions going up to the Supreme the cases going up to the Supreme Court now are not specifically about the Federal Reserve. It's other government agencies, but it's a similar structure where they have multiple people on the board.

Yeah, I mean that's you know, as Mike was just saying, the big question. So we have a couple cases that have kind of filtered their way through the federal court system and will are expected to be taken up by the Supreme Court soon. So these are kind of They both have to do with what's called Humphries Executor, which is a provision from nineteen thirty five, a Supreme Court ruling that found that the president could not unilaterally fire members of boards. Now the Supreme Court has already chipped away at that a little bit. There was a twenty twenty decision about the CFPB that said, when it's a single directory, the President does have that authority to to fire that person. But the open question is kind of how it applies still to multi member boards. So the decisions going up to the Supreme the cases going up to the Supreme Court now are not specifically about the Federal Reserve. It's other government agencies, but it's a similar structure where they have multiple people on the board.

You know, Katerina, we're monitoring what's going on in the Oval Office right now. The President is with Georgia Maloney, the Prime Minister of Italy. He's still making more comments. Just as you were speaking about the Federal Reserve, he said, interest rates are pretty flat. They should be better. Costs are down, very little inflation. The Fed owes it to Americans to get interest rates down. Powell will have a lot of political pressure and the only thing Powell is good for is lowering rates. I want to go back to Mike McKee, International Economics and Policy correspondent. He's here in our studio too. He's looking at these comments as well. Just fact check us a little bit with where inflation is, where costs are, and how you view the comment that the President said the only thing Paul is good for is lowering rates.

You know, Katerina, we're monitoring what's going on in the Oval Office right now. The President is with Georgia Maloney, the Prime Minister of Italy. He's still making more comments. Just as you were speaking about the Federal Reserve, he said, interest rates are pretty flat. They should be better. Costs are down, very little inflation. The Fed owes it to Americans to get interest rates down. Powell will have a lot of political pressure and the only thing Powell is good for is lowering rates. I want to go back to Mike McKee, International Economics and Policy correspondent. He's here in our studio too. He's looking at these comments as well. Just fact check us a little bit with where inflation is, where costs are, and how you view the comment that the President said the only thing Paul is good for is lowering rates.

Well, it depends on which measure you want to use. As always, we say with the inflation numbers, but basically they're getting very close to the Fed's target, the CPI down, and now we're here after we've had the other numbers and people plugged in the data. The Fed's target is the PCE index, and that's now forecast to come in about two point three percent. So inflation has come down. The issue is not that inflation is coming down, because if this were an ordinary time, the Fed would be probably lining up to cut rates again. I think pretty much all of them want to, but they can't because they don't know what is going to happen, and this may be what set the president off. Powell yesterday saying that the tariffs as announced were bigger than people thought, and they will have a bigger impact than people thought. Inflation will probably go higher than we estimated. And in that case, because that's a possibility if Ed doesn't want to move right now, and that makes sense.

Well, it depends on which measure you want to use. As always, we say with the inflation numbers, but basically they're getting very close to the Fed's target, the CPI down, and now we're here after we've had the other numbers and people plugged in the data. The Fed's target is the PCE index, and that's now forecast to come in about two point three percent. So inflation has come down. The issue is not that inflation is coming down, because if this were an ordinary time, the Fed would be probably lining up to cut rates again. I think pretty much all of them want to, but they can't because they don't know what is going to happen, and this may be what set the president off. Powell yesterday saying that the tariffs as announced were bigger than people thought, and they will have a bigger impact than people thought. Inflation will probably go higher than we estimated. And in that case, because that's a possibility if Ed doesn't want to move right now, and that makes sense.

So he also said the president, if Europe has cut rates, that puts a set in a disadvantage.

So he also said the president, if Europe has cut rates, that puts a set in a disadvantage.

They're not comparable. The European economy is growing barely one percent. We've been growing two and a half or better. First quarter may not be great, but there may be some statistical anomalies there. Their unemployment rate is much higher than ours, and their interest rates are lower than ours. So at this point you can't really say that it's a comparable situation.

They're not comparable. The European economy is growing barely one percent. We've been growing two and a half or better. First quarter may not be great, but there may be some statistical anomalies there. Their unemployment rate is much higher than ours, and their interest rates are lower than ours. So at this point you can't really say that it's a comparable situation.

And we should point out that the remarks and the press event in the Oval Office has ended, so that should be the end of those headlines. Katherine, I want to go back to you for one more thought. I mean so legally, I mean how easy would it be potentially and I guess, depending on how all these rulings go, could it be for the President to maybe remove Fetcher J Powell.

And we should point out that the remarks and the press event in the Oval Office has ended, so that should be the end of those headlines. Katherine, I want to go back to you for one more thought. I mean so legally, I mean how easy would it be potentially and I guess, depending on how all these rulings go, could it be for the President to maybe remove Fetcher J Powell.

Yeah, I mean if the rulings are broad and not very narrow, right, if they if they are seen to apply to basically any multi member agency, then yeah, that leaves the door wide open for the President to fire the fet Share. There are some legal scholars and some folks, and we heard it from Chair Powell yesterday as well, that think that there is likely to be a carve out specifically for the FED. We have heard, we had, we've been in a decision a few years ago. Justice Alito kind of eluded, you know, talked a little bit about how the Federal Reserve is a unique entity. So there there might be appetite for that at the Supreme Court to kind of carve out the FED. But it remains to be seen.

Yeah, I mean if the rulings are broad and not very narrow, right, if they if they are seen to apply to basically any multi member agency, then yeah, that leaves the door wide open for the President to fire the fet Share. There are some legal scholars and some folks, and we heard it from Chair Powell yesterday as well, that think that there is likely to be a carve out specifically for the FED. We have heard, we had, we've been in a decision a few years ago. Justice Alito kind of eluded, you know, talked a little bit about how the Federal Reserve is a unique entity. So there there might be appetite for that at the Supreme Court to kind of carve out the FED. But it remains to be seen.

Now.

Now.

I think one of the important factors for Trump, even if he has the permission to do so, is the reality of how the markets would react, right, because it would be quite a reaction in markets, and that may prevent them from ultimately acting.

I think one of the important factors for Trump, even if he has the permission to do so, is the reality of how the markets would react, right, because it would be quite a reaction in markets, and that may prevent them from ultimately acting.

All right, really appreciate you, wangan, Katerina. We're going to let you go. Thank you so much.

All right, really appreciate you, wangan, Katerina. We're going to let you go. Thank you so much.

So, Katerina Saravas, she is Bloomberg News Federal Reserve reporter. We're going to continue that a little bit more with Mike in terms of Fetcher J. Powell and his tenure.

So, Katerina Saravas, she is Bloomberg News Federal Reserve reporter. We're going to continue that a little bit more with Mike in terms of Fetcher J. Powell and his tenure.

Yeah, so, Mike, I do want to bring you back in here because and we're going to get to trade in just a minute, because there were some headlines on the trade side of things coming from that Oval Office meeting. But if we think about this in the context of what we heard from the president in his first term, he would tweet at the time about the FED lowering interest rates. The FED chair has in the past addressed questions about pressure and political pressure. He's talked about maintaining independence. As of now, though, given what we heard from the President today, are there any more questions about the pressure that he must be feeling or he may be feeling.

Yeah, so, Mike, I do want to bring you back in here because and we're going to get to trade in just a minute, because there were some headlines on the trade side of things coming from that Oval Office meeting. But if we think about this in the context of what we heard from the president in his first term, he would tweet at the time about the FED lowering interest rates. The FED chair has in the past addressed questions about pressure and political pressure. He's talked about maintaining independence. As of now, though, given what we heard from the President today, are there any more questions about the pressure that he must be feeling or he may be feeling.

Well, he may be feeling pressure, But he is giving the same answer it was asked yesterday and again he said, we will do what we do without any regard to political pressure. Our job is the mandate that Congress gave us maximum employment and stable prices, and that's what we're going to do. We'll make our decisions based on what gets us to those mandates.

Well, he may be feeling pressure, But he is giving the same answer it was asked yesterday and again he said, we will do what we do without any regard to political pressure. Our job is the mandate that Congress gave us maximum employment and stable prices, and that's what we're going to do. We'll make our decisions based on what gets us to those mandates.

Fetcher J.

Fetcher J.

Powell also said yesterday our independence is a matter of law. Congress has it in our statute. We're not removable except for cause we serve very long terms, seemingly endless terms, he said, So we're protected in the law. So you know, Congress could change that law, but there's I don't think there's any danger of that. That independence has pretty broad support across both political parties. I'm going to ask the obvious. I know the answer, but we've got to ask it. Maybe for those who are like, well, couldn't you just get rid of the FED? I mean, if President Trump just got rid of feedcher J. Powell just kind of because he wanted to, and there was no real cause, what would that say potentially to the independence of the Fed? And again, just why having an independent fact is crucial and when it doesn't happen, we see what happens two countries.

Powell also said yesterday our independence is a matter of law. Congress has it in our statute. We're not removable except for cause we serve very long terms, seemingly endless terms, he said, So we're protected in the law. So you know, Congress could change that law, but there's I don't think there's any danger of that. That independence has pretty broad support across both political parties. I'm going to ask the obvious. I know the answer, but we've got to ask it. Maybe for those who are like, well, couldn't you just get rid of the FED? I mean, if President Trump just got rid of feedcher J. Powell just kind of because he wanted to, and there was no real cause, what would that say potentially to the independence of the Fed? And again, just why having an independent fact is crucial and when it doesn't happen, we see what happens two countries.

That part is easy because there have been many, many studies that show countries with independent central banks have much lower interest rates, much lower inflation rates, and it's just overall better for the economy. And there's no debate among economists or I think investors, Wall Street Global, Wall Street kind of people about that. Now if the President tried to fire Powell, I think there would be a rebellion on Wall Street. Krishnaghoo, is I ever core said today if you like the reaction to the tariff announcement, just wait till you get Trump has fired at US.

That part is easy because there have been many, many studies that show countries with independent central banks have much lower interest rates, much lower inflation rates, and it's just overall better for the economy. And there's no debate among economists or I think investors, Wall Street Global, Wall Street kind of people about that. Now if the President tried to fire Powell, I think there would be a rebellion on Wall Street. Krishnaghoo, is I ever core said today if you like the reaction to the tariff announcement, just wait till you get Trump has fired at US.

You're saying the bond market could get yippie.

You're saying the bond market could get yippie.

Yeah, they could get so it's kind of a technical.

Yeah, they could get so it's kind of a technical.

Term, but yeah, okay, that's good to know, Mike. One last question to you, this one on trade, because we did hear the President and Prime Minister the Resident just now saying that they discussed trade other things and that Italy will have to increase their imports of LNG. Remind us because the European Union is this block. Remind us if individual countries can actually go and negotiate their own trade deals with the US or do they have to do it as the EU.

Term, but yeah, okay, that's good to know, Mike. One last question to you, this one on trade, because we did hear the President and Prime Minister the Resident just now saying that they discussed trade other things and that Italy will have to increase their imports of LNG. Remind us because the European Union is this block. Remind us if individual countries can actually go and negotiate their own trade deals with the US or do they have to do it as the EU.

Well, they have to do it as an as the EU as a block to negotiate a trade agreement. Now, there's no reason that Italy couldn't buy more of one product. They could say we want more LNG. We saw that during the initial phase of the Ukrainian War, countries that needed natural gas buying more from the United States and other places. But the idea of an overall trade deal that would exempt them from tariffs probably has to go through Brussels. I mean, that's the structure they have set up.

Well, they have to do it as an as the EU as a block to negotiate a trade agreement. Now, there's no reason that Italy couldn't buy more of one product. They could say we want more LNG. We saw that during the initial phase of the Ukrainian War, countries that needed natural gas buying more from the United States and other places. But the idea of an overall trade deal that would exempt them from tariffs probably has to go through Brussels. I mean, that's the structure they have set up.

All right, We're gonna leave it there. Great timing. Thanks for dropping by.

All right, We're gonna leave it there. Great timing. Thanks for dropping by.

And it knows when I'm here to make.

And it knows when I'm here to make.

It a coordinate schedules, right, five o'clock, Balance of power, five o'clock, talk about it again. To see you next.

It a coordinate schedules, right, five o'clock, Balance of power, five o'clock, talk about it again. To see you next.

Michael McKee, International Economics and Policy Correspondent, Bloomberg News.

Michael McKee, International Economics and Policy Correspondent, Bloomberg News.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Well.

Well.

President Donald Trump said during a meeting with Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney that he expects to reach a trade deal with the EU, but he indicated he's in no hurry to finalize tariff agreements.

President Donald Trump said during a meeting with Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney that he expects to reach a trade deal with the EU, but he indicated he's in no hurry to finalize tariff agreements.

We're doing very well with negotiations, I think with all countries, and Scott could tell you a little bit, but we are doing very well. We have a lot of countries that want to make a deal. Frankly, they want to make deals more than I do. Tariffs are making those rich.

We're doing very well with negotiations, I think with all countries, and Scott could tell you a little bit, but we are doing very well. We have a lot of countries that want to make a deal. Frankly, they want to make deals more than I do. Tariffs are making those rich.

Well.

Well.

That was President Trump from the Oval Office, alongside Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney. The Scott by the way, he referred to with Scott Bess and the Treasury Secretary of the US separately, well not separately, but also I should say, the EU carol is working on a proposal to introduce restrictions on some exports to the US as a possible retaliatory tactic in that expense of trade war that the President initiated last month.

That was President Trump from the Oval Office, alongside Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney. The Scott by the way, he referred to with Scott Bess and the Treasury Secretary of the US separately, well not separately, but also I should say, the EU carol is working on a proposal to introduce restrictions on some exports to the US as a possible retaliatory tactic in that expense of trade war that the President initiated last month.

All right, for the latest, let's head to Stephanie law. She's Bloomberg News White House correspondent. She is out there in our DC bureau. Hey, Stephanie, So, I just want to cut to the chase. Are things moving forward when it comes to trade negotiations and should we assume sooner rather than later that there could be some kind of deals, better deals maybe perhaps announced that maybe kind of cool the heat that we've seen and what feels like a trade war.

All right, for the latest, let's head to Stephanie law. She's Bloomberg News White House correspondent. She is out there in our DC bureau. Hey, Stephanie, So, I just want to cut to the chase. Are things moving forward when it comes to trade negotiations and should we assume sooner rather than later that there could be some kind of deals, better deals maybe perhaps announced that maybe kind of cool the heat that we've seen and what feels like a trade war.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's what we've all been waiting for. But it remains unseen when a deal will come together. You know, they've mentioned for a couple I guess about a week now that they have about fifteen or so offerers and that there are people coming to the White House make deals.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's what we've all been waiting for. But it remains unseen when a deal will come together. You know, they've mentioned for a couple I guess about a week now that they have about fifteen or so offerers and that there are people coming to the White House make deals.

You know.

You know.

Notably, nothing really came out of the Japan talks yesterday. Now it was a preliminary meeting, sure, but the President still did attend. And so everything we've been hearing from our sources, from just what's coming out of the White House is that deals are being made, that they're not really in a rush. And Trump himself is saying, you know, repeatedly in the last week that he really doesn't mind waiting because we're bringing in a bunch of revenue and money from these exports or the imports that were putting tariffs on and so he doesn't seem to be in a rush. It seems like his team is very focused on making good deals. But you know, one thing that the Secretary Treasury Secretary Besent mentioned at this Oval meeting was that South Korea is expected to come next week. So we're still seeing some trade partners come in. Discussions are still happening, but in terms of the timing, it doesn't quite seem like an immediate remedy.

Notably, nothing really came out of the Japan talks yesterday. Now it was a preliminary meeting, sure, but the President still did attend. And so everything we've been hearing from our sources, from just what's coming out of the White House is that deals are being made, that they're not really in a rush. And Trump himself is saying, you know, repeatedly in the last week that he really doesn't mind waiting because we're bringing in a bunch of revenue and money from these exports or the imports that were putting tariffs on and so he doesn't seem to be in a rush. It seems like his team is very focused on making good deals. But you know, one thing that the Secretary Treasury Secretary Besent mentioned at this Oval meeting was that South Korea is expected to come next week. So we're still seeing some trade partners come in. Discussions are still happening, but in terms of the timing, it doesn't quite seem like an immediate remedy.

Okay, South Korea, Japan, something's missing, Yeah, I was gonna say, and then Italy, of course, what about the big one? What about China? Is there any movement there?

Okay, South Korea, Japan, something's missing, Yeah, I was gonna say, and then Italy, of course, what about the big one? What about China? Is there any movement there?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I mean reporters did press the President on this throughout this last week. He doesn't seem to say that he has reached out. It's not clear if China has reached out, and so it doesn't really seem like we've moved from this impasse that we've already encountered earlier last week, when the tariffs had started ramping up in this trade war continued to escalate.

I mean reporters did press the President on this throughout this last week. He doesn't seem to say that he has reached out. It's not clear if China has reached out, and so it doesn't really seem like we've moved from this impasse that we've already encountered earlier last week, when the tariffs had started ramping up in this trade war continued to escalate.

All right, good to leave it there, Hey, Stephanie, thank you so much. STEPHANIELI Bloomberg News White House correspondent joining us from our Washington, DC bureau.

All right, good to leave it there, Hey, Stephanie, thank you so much. STEPHANIELI Bloomberg News White House correspondent joining us from our Washington, DC bureau.

So that is the latest when it comes to DC and the trade war. We're also really interested on how companies that import goods are dealing with this. The Notori Company is one of those firms that's really caught in the crosshairs right now. It's a designer fashion brand that does sleep where lingerie, swimwear, Fragrance, Bridle, fine jewelry, and more. We've got Kennatory with us. He's the president. We should note that before his work at Notori, he worked here at Bloomberg Radio and TV. That was until two thousand and three. He joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Good to see you, Ken. You are the perfect guy to talk to about this because of what is happening in your world, and I want to know what has happened in your world because you manufacture in China, you manufacture in the Philippines. What's going on it is?

So that is the latest when it comes to DC and the trade war. We're also really interested on how companies that import goods are dealing with this. The Notori Company is one of those firms that's really caught in the crosshairs right now. It's a designer fashion brand that does sleep where lingerie, swimwear, Fragrance, Bridle, fine jewelry, and more. We've got Kennatory with us. He's the president. We should note that before his work at Notori, he worked here at Bloomberg Radio and TV. That was until two thousand and three. He joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Good to see you, Ken. You are the perfect guy to talk to about this because of what is happening in your world, and I want to know what has happened in your world because you manufacture in China, you manufacture in the Philippines. What's going on it is?

First off, thanks for having me always. Great to be back at Bloomberg. Feels like I'm coming back home. It's just it's really challenging right now. There's just not a lot of visibility in terms of what stuff is going to be like. Obviously, we had the chaos of the beginning of the month. There was a time where we thought places outside of China would be really difficult to manufacture in because the tariffs in Vietnam Cambodia were much higher than expected. Then those came down to ten percent, China went even higher. So you know, we've got plans for every different scenario, but we don't know what the scenario is actually going to be So it's really hard. You know, I think a lot of people in our industry have just been waiting a little bit to see how things would shake out. But we're all in a position now where we have to make decisions and it's hard to make decisions without visibility.

First off, thanks for having me always. Great to be back at Bloomberg. Feels like I'm coming back home. It's just it's really challenging right now. There's just not a lot of visibility in terms of what stuff is going to be like. Obviously, we had the chaos of the beginning of the month. There was a time where we thought places outside of China would be really difficult to manufacture in because the tariffs in Vietnam Cambodia were much higher than expected. Then those came down to ten percent, China went even higher. So you know, we've got plans for every different scenario, but we don't know what the scenario is actually going to be So it's really hard. You know, I think a lot of people in our industry have just been waiting a little bit to see how things would shake out. But we're all in a position now where we have to make decisions and it's hard to make decisions without visibility.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

What's the best and worst case scenarios that you are kind of planning for?

What's the best and worst case scenarios that you are kind of planning for?

So we thought the worst case. So, you know, we have our own manufacturing facility, our own factory in the Filippines where we do about seventy percent of our manufacturing of the collections that we do in how so that is a tremendous advantage. That said, we still have twenty five to thirty percent exposure in China, which is a lot. You know, we have been building models for twenty five percent out of China, forty five percent, tariffs out of China one hundred and forty five percent. Yesterday there was a rumor of going up to two hundred and forty five percent, which is I mean, how do you plan business around that? And what's interesting for us is, you know, we sell direct to consumer onnry dot com, but we also sell to department stores. Our wholesale partners that we've been with, you know, throughout our forty eight years as a company, right and we've got these long term partnerships. They need to know, like what what are we going to buy product at? And we have to give they're asking for a price, and we don't know what the tariff is going to be when we ship in sixty to ninety days, So there's so much uncertainty. You know, we're working very closely with our retail partners to come up with some way for us both to be protected because we're you know, we're we have great partnerships, but with a complete lack of visibility in terms of what those tariffs are actually going to be, it's just it's a little bit of a guessing game at this point. But everybody has to start taking action, and that's where it gets a little scary.

So we thought the worst case. So, you know, we have our own manufacturing facility, our own factory in the Filippines where we do about seventy percent of our manufacturing of the collections that we do in how so that is a tremendous advantage. That said, we still have twenty five to thirty percent exposure in China, which is a lot. You know, we have been building models for twenty five percent out of China, forty five percent, tariffs out of China one hundred and forty five percent. Yesterday there was a rumor of going up to two hundred and forty five percent, which is I mean, how do you plan business around that? And what's interesting for us is, you know, we sell direct to consumer onnry dot com, but we also sell to department stores. Our wholesale partners that we've been with, you know, throughout our forty eight years as a company, right and we've got these long term partnerships. They need to know, like what what are we going to buy product at? And we have to give they're asking for a price, and we don't know what the tariff is going to be when we ship in sixty to ninety days, So there's so much uncertainty. You know, we're working very closely with our retail partners to come up with some way for us both to be protected because we're you know, we're we have great partnerships, but with a complete lack of visibility in terms of what those tariffs are actually going to be, it's just it's a little bit of a guessing game at this point. But everybody has to start taking action, and that's where it gets a little scary.

The President would say, the point of these tariffs are to bring manufacturing back to the United States. Is there a number that you'd see on China or the Philippines that would cause you to move production to the US?

The President would say, the point of these tariffs are to bring manufacturing back to the United States. Is there a number that you'd see on China or the Philippines that would cause you to move production to the US?

I mean, I will say if so, you know, if tariffs stay at one hundred and forty five percent out of China. People will not be able to import apparel from China. It's going to move you know, who knows what it's going to be in the other countries. If he puts one hundred and forty five percent tariff on every single country in the world, then eventually, eventually, I you know, maybe apparel manufacturing could come back to the United States. But that's a long process that doesn't happen overnight.

I mean, I will say if so, you know, if tariffs stay at one hundred and forty five percent out of China. People will not be able to import apparel from China. It's going to move you know, who knows what it's going to be in the other countries. If he puts one hundred and forty five percent tariff on every single country in the world, then eventually, eventually, I you know, maybe apparel manufacturing could come back to the United States. But that's a long process that doesn't happen overnight.

How long is that process?

How long is that process?

You know, I don't know.

You know, I don't know.

I like, I've never thought that we would have to like invest in our own manufacturing.

I like, I've never thought that we would have to like invest in our own manufacturing.

There's there's a visiblity you could to say, okay, guys, you start making it.

There's there's a visiblity you could to say, okay, guys, you start making it.

And it's not the facility.

And it's not the facility.

It's also the skills. Think about like training workers, Like how many people do you know in the US We're like, oh, yeah, I know how to do that. It's about training a workforce. It's about equipment, it's about machinery. So in theory, yeah, I'd love to bring jobs back to the US, But like right now, like people are like, how are you dealing with this? If I sat in my desk and called every manufacturer in the US that could make apparel for US, yeah, that would take zero seconds. Because I don't know, they don't exist for us. Now that's not to say.

It's also the skills. Think about like training workers, Like how many people do you know in the US We're like, oh, yeah, I know how to do that. It's about training a workforce. It's about equipment, it's about machinery. So in theory, yeah, I'd love to bring jobs back to the US, But like right now, like people are like, how are you dealing with this? If I sat in my desk and called every manufacturer in the US that could make apparel for US, yeah, that would take zero seconds. Because I don't know, they don't exist for us. Now that's not to say.

It couldn't happened down the road.

It couldn't happened down the road.

I mean, you know, we could come up with any kind of scenario, but as of right now, like what we're supposed to do in our seat, it's it's a little confusing.

I mean, you know, we could come up with any kind of scenario, but as of right now, like what we're supposed to do in our seat, it's it's a little confusing.

How much would it cost? Do you think to you know, I don't so the world? Is the world just a fantasy at this point because the skills don't exist here in the US, the manufacturing doesn't exist here in the US. Does my question even? Is my question even relevant?

How much would it cost? Do you think to you know, I don't so the world? Is the world just a fantasy at this point because the skills don't exist here in the US, the manufacturing doesn't exist here in the US. Does my question even? Is my question even relevant?

So it could be relevant to bigger companies, and I think you know, you've seen articles where this is really going to hurt smaller companies, the independent companies like us. Like if you're a bigger company, like if you want to go tell Nike or under Armour or Victorious Secret, Hey, you guys build yourrone manufacturing in the US, Well maybe they have the money to do that and the ability to like right, like you know, you know, we're a privately held business. The idea of like, hey, we're actually going to invest in you know, building building our own manufacturing facilities in the US, Like that's that's very difficult, and it's not like there are these existing factories that we can tap into to move to domestic production.

So it could be relevant to bigger companies, and I think you know, you've seen articles where this is really going to hurt smaller companies, the independent companies like us. Like if you're a bigger company, like if you want to go tell Nike or under Armour or Victorious Secret, Hey, you guys build yourrone manufacturing in the US, Well maybe they have the money to do that and the ability to like right, like you know, you know, we're a privately held business. The idea of like, hey, we're actually going to invest in you know, building building our own manufacturing facilities in the US, Like that's that's very difficult, and it's not like there are these existing factories that we can tap into to move to domestic production.

What don't we maybe as a society understand about Chinese manufacturing. I think we think it's maybe we think of our history, you know, dirty factories, industrial factory, you know what I mean, and just kind of but they're very sophisticated. Tell us a little bit about your experience in terms of time. I'm assuming you've visited your factories.

What don't we maybe as a society understand about Chinese manufacturing. I think we think it's maybe we think of our history, you know, dirty factories, industrial factory, you know what I mean, and just kind of but they're very sophisticated. Tell us a little bit about your experience in terms of time. I'm assuming you've visited your factories.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

So you know, I spent a lot of time at our own company owned factory in the Philippines, but I have traveled to China a lot from twenty fifteen to twenty twenty obviously to meet with our manufacturing partners there. They are very good, They're very dedicated, and you know, they know what they're doing and they're willing to do the work. And this is you know, it's it's tough work to do. It is it is tough work to do.

So you know, I spent a lot of time at our own company owned factory in the Philippines, but I have traveled to China a lot from twenty fifteen to twenty twenty obviously to meet with our manufacturing partners there. They are very good, They're very dedicated, and you know, they know what they're doing and they're willing to do the work. And this is you know, it's it's tough work to do. It is it is tough work to do.

So how sophistic is the technology involved in all of that?

So how sophistic is the technology involved in all of that?

Well, so it depends, you know, for apparel, it's you know everything. There are certain parts of making clothes that can be machine done. Like if you look at socks or hosiery. That's usually like machines and people looking at and operating the machines and observing them. But when it comes to actual like apparel manufacturing, like the cut and so, that involves a lot of handwork. You know, that involves sort of detailed work, you know, using a sewing machine, and it's you know, it's it's hard work. I'm not sure like to get those skills in the US and to have legitimate apparel manufacturing and real factories, it would take a long time of training a workforce and in a long time of building these facilities.

Well, so it depends, you know, for apparel, it's you know everything. There are certain parts of making clothes that can be machine done. Like if you look at socks or hosiery. That's usually like machines and people looking at and operating the machines and observing them. But when it comes to actual like apparel manufacturing, like the cut and so, that involves a lot of handwork. You know, that involves sort of detailed work, you know, using a sewing machine, and it's you know, it's it's hard work. I'm not sure like to get those skills in the US and to have legitimate apparel manufacturing and real factories, it would take a long time of training a workforce and in a long time of building these facilities.

So I want to go back to what you're doing right now, because you essentially described a state of paralysis where you really are waiting to see what the decision is or how long these tariffs are in place to make a decision. How long can you actually wait because at a certain point you're going to have to make a decision and your partners are going to have to get their clothes and you're gonna have to tell the folks in China and the Philippines UH to start making these things.

So I want to go back to what you're doing right now, because you essentially described a state of paralysis where you really are waiting to see what the decision is or how long these tariffs are in place to make a decision. How long can you actually wait because at a certain point you're going to have to make a decision and your partners are going to have to get their clothes and you're gonna have to tell the folks in China and the Philippines UH to start making these things.

Yeah, so we were paralysis at the beginning of the month, and now so for the as I mentioned, we have our own factory in the Philippines. To the degree we had some programs in China, we are actively trying to move those and countersource and move those programs to the Philippines. We can't do everything there are there is a there's a lot of industry that cannot be done anywhere outside of China. And I think that's what's interesting, Like everybody's trying to move out of China now. But if you think about something like Christmas ornaments, like it's you know, I was talking to a department store partner, we were visiting with them last week. They're like, we might not even have a Christmas ornament department this holiday season because that's the only place these things are made. So they're going to be you know, the consumers is going to see a lot of consumers is certainly going to see higher prices, but there could be huge categories of things that you expect to see this fall that just might might not be there.

Yeah, so we were paralysis at the beginning of the month, and now so for the as I mentioned, we have our own factory in the Philippines. To the degree we had some programs in China, we are actively trying to move those and countersource and move those programs to the Philippines. We can't do everything there are there is a there's a lot of industry that cannot be done anywhere outside of China. And I think that's what's interesting, Like everybody's trying to move out of China now. But if you think about something like Christmas ornaments, like it's you know, I was talking to a department store partner, we were visiting with them last week. They're like, we might not even have a Christmas ornament department this holiday season because that's the only place these things are made. So they're going to be you know, the consumers is going to see a lot of consumers is certainly going to see higher prices, but there could be huge categories of things that you expect to see this fall that just might might not be there.

Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

It's just I know, it's kind of amazing to get what go ahead materials.

It's just I know, it's kind of amazing to get what go ahead materials.

Yeah, are those are those from separate countries then China and the Philippines. We hear a lot about that, and that the supply.

Yeah, are those are those from separate countries then China and the Philippines. We hear a lot about that, and that the supply.

A lot so yet know, a lot of the fabrics, a lot of fabrics come out of China. We get the higher end fabrics out of out of South Korea, but a lot of the fabrics do come from China. And frankly, you know, even as a lot of the finished goods are coming moving out of China to other places, a lot of that fabric is still going to come from China. So it's you know, they do a lot there that is only done in that country. And could it eventually move, yes, but all this stuff takes a lot of time.

A lot so yet know, a lot of the fabrics, a lot of fabrics come out of China. We get the higher end fabrics out of out of South Korea, but a lot of the fabrics do come from China. And frankly, you know, even as a lot of the finished goods are coming moving out of China to other places, a lot of that fabric is still going to come from China. So it's you know, they do a lot there that is only done in that country. And could it eventually move, yes, but all this stuff takes a lot of time.

So say, I am curious the fashion industry as a whole, what kind of you know, uh access do they have to the White House? And I'm just curious what they are hearing, getting time with and so and of just got about thirty seconds left.

So say, I am curious the fashion industry as a whole, what kind of you know, uh access do they have to the White House? And I'm just curious what they are hearing, getting time with and so and of just got about thirty seconds left.

Yeah, I don't have any Yeah, I can tell you that, you know, I you know, I know there's like the c FDA which is putting out statements. I'm not sure what direct access they have. I think their industries is probably the White House cares a lot more about than the fashion industry, for for better or worse. But you know, I think there Wall Street probably has its eyes on much bigger things. But I can say from my seat it is it's a very interesting time for us, and I think everybody's just trying to make the most of it.

Yeah, I don't have any Yeah, I can tell you that, you know, I you know, I know there's like the c FDA which is putting out statements. I'm not sure what direct access they have. I think their industries is probably the White House cares a lot more about than the fashion industry, for for better or worse. But you know, I think there Wall Street probably has its eyes on much bigger things. But I can say from my seat it is it's a very interesting time for us, and I think everybody's just trying to make the most of it.

Or just twenty So are you gonna have to lay anyone off? Do you think?

Or just twenty So are you gonna have to lay anyone off? Do you think?

I hope not. Yeah, No, I don't know. We'll see, We'll see what happens. It is, it's a very difficult time. There's complete uncertainty out there. There's complete uncertainty out there, so it's it's challenging.

I hope not. Yeah, No, I don't know. We'll see, We'll see what happens. It is, it's a very difficult time. There's complete uncertainty out there. There's complete uncertainty out there, so it's it's challenging.

Well, you open up a window to really understanding kind of how things are made. I think we just take things for granted in terms of closing items. Kenna Torrey, thank you so much, president of the Notory Company. Joining us here in studio.

Well, you open up a window to really understanding kind of how things are made. I think we just take things for granted in terms of closing items. Kenna Torrey, thank you so much, president of the Notory Company. Joining us here in studio.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

MUCA.

MUCA.

I'll bet you let me drive.

I'll bet you let me drive.

Oh no, no, no, no, this is not a toy.

Oh no, no, no, no, this is not a toy.

Who's gone to judge Honday?

Who's gone to judge Honday?

Please, I'll do the gravels wait, I want to drive. It's a good questions try.

Please, I'll do the gravels wait, I want to drive. It's a good questions try.

This is the drive to the close. Now plunks to music.

This is the drive to the close. Now plunks to music.

We'll drive us Kilda Dawn on Bloomberg Radio.

We'll drive us Kilda Dawn on Bloomberg Radio.

All right, TikTok, everybody.

All right, TikTok, everybody.

We've got just about eighteen minutes to go until we wrap up with the trading day and the trading week. Remember, of course it's a good Friday holiday, so a holiday shortened trading week, and we've been bouncing.

We've got just about eighteen minutes to go until we wrap up with the trading day and the trading week. Remember, of course it's a good Friday holiday, so a holiday shortened trading week, and we've been bouncing.

Aroun Land market not even open right now, host it to close it.

Aroun Land market not even open right now, host it to close it.

To early early right now.

To early early right now.

The Dow Jones industrial average, it is down about one percent as we speak. We know United Health has been a big drag amy just breaking that down for you as well. S and P five hundred just up about four tons of a percent. Nastek one call it flat, just up about six points.

The Dow Jones industrial average, it is down about one percent as we speak. We know United Health has been a big drag amy just breaking that down for you as well. S and P five hundred just up about four tons of a percent. Nastek one call it flat, just up about six points.

I did mention the bond market, so I do want to say we did see yields rise ever so slightly today, the tenure at four thirty two, four thirty three, we can round that up.

I did mention the bond market, so I do want to say we did see yields rise ever so slightly today, the tenure at four thirty two, four thirty three, we can round that up.

It's been an interesting, mellow, wish kind of week. I mean really, although what we did see as a movement, I guess it wasn't.

It's been an interesting, mellow, wish kind of week. I mean really, although what we did see as a movement, I guess it wasn't.

Yeah, it's all relative. It wasn't like what we saw last week, which was just wild in the week before.

Yeah, it's all relative. It wasn't like what we saw last week, which was just wild in the week before.

That fix is down about two and a half points. We're moving. We're trading around thirty.

That fix is down about two and a half points. We're moving. We're trading around thirty.

Okay, you know, just you know, remember it was just what last week that we were bopping up to sixty or so. That was on April seventh, So we've been moving our way down.

Okay, you know, just you know, remember it was just what last week that we were bopping up to sixty or so. That was on April seventh, So we've been moving our way down.

Okay, look at that calming down ish?

Okay, look at that calming down ish?

Yeah, well, I mean again, it's all relative.

Yeah, well, I mean again, it's all relative.

All right, Let's see what our guest has to say.

All right, Let's see what our guest has to say.

Hey, I want to bring in Rayan Mitrioni. She's the founding partner in CFA at Callan Family Office. She joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida. Ryan, Good to have you with us. The firm's got about seven a half billion dollars in assets under management. You know it is a wild week. When Carol says this week has been calm, I should say a wild period of time. I wonder I want to know what the questions that you're getting from clients right now are, because we've been hearing a lot about people rethinking act allocations going more to Europe. What are you hearing?

Hey, I want to bring in Rayan Mitrioni. She's the founding partner in CFA at Callan Family Office. She joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida. Ryan, Good to have you with us. The firm's got about seven a half billion dollars in assets under management. You know it is a wild week. When Carol says this week has been calm, I should say a wild period of time. I wonder I want to know what the questions that you're getting from clients right now are, because we've been hearing a lot about people rethinking act allocations going more to Europe. What are you hearing?

Absolutely? Thank you for having me, and it's it's true, this week has felt a little calmer, but it is all relative, very different than the last couple of years. But yeah, I mean, clients are are We're certainly having a lot of you know communication. I think that's the most important thing when you're in a period like this is staying close to clients, making sure they're feeling okay and.

Absolutely? Thank you for having me, and it's it's true, this week has felt a little calmer, but it is all relative, very different than the last couple of years. But yeah, I mean, clients are are We're certainly having a lot of you know communication. I think that's the most important thing when you're in a period like this is staying close to clients, making sure they're feeling okay and.

That are they feeling are they failing okay?

That are they feeling are they failing okay?

It really depends.

It really depends.

I mean, that's when it's about kind of reconfirming where risk tolerances are and that allocations are in line with where they should be because everyone has a high risk tolerance. When the market's going up right, it's a lot easier then. So it's like, how do you feel in this period? And a lot of the clients we work with are really ultra high net worth investors, so it's a little bit different.

I mean, that's when it's about kind of reconfirming where risk tolerances are and that allocations are in line with where they should be because everyone has a high risk tolerance. When the market's going up right, it's a lot easier then. So it's like, how do you feel in this period? And a lot of the clients we work with are really ultra high net worth investors, so it's a little bit different.

So do they say it, do you forget it? Or do they still are they kind of you know, do they call you and say what are you doing? Like should I be worried?

So do they say it, do you forget it? Or do they still are they kind of you know, do they call you and say what are you doing? Like should I be worried?

Exactly?

Exactly?

They still want to know that we're not just sitting on our hands and doing nothing when we're in a period like this, and we're not. I mean, we do think it's important to stay true to you know, long term strategic investment plans, you know, and not get caught up in the emotions of these kind of volatility. But we can do things like rebalance. I mean, we rebalanced a lot kind of coming into this year, pulling back on growth and rebalancing a little towards fixed income, towards value, rebalancing those exposures. And now we're kind of going a little bit incrementally in the other direction where we've nded up a little underweight equity targets on this fullback. So it gives us the opportunity to do that look at loss harvesting opportunities to help our clients offset their tax bills in other areas. So we are being active, and yes, we are certainly talking to them and telling them what we're doing as we're going through this period.

They still want to know that we're not just sitting on our hands and doing nothing when we're in a period like this, and we're not. I mean, we do think it's important to stay true to you know, long term strategic investment plans, you know, and not get caught up in the emotions of these kind of volatility. But we can do things like rebalance. I mean, we rebalanced a lot kind of coming into this year, pulling back on growth and rebalancing a little towards fixed income, towards value, rebalancing those exposures. And now we're kind of going a little bit incrementally in the other direction where we've nded up a little underweight equity targets on this fullback. So it gives us the opportunity to do that look at loss harvesting opportunities to help our clients offset their tax bills in other areas. So we are being active, and yes, we are certainly talking to them and telling them what we're doing as we're going through this period.

Ran.

Ran.

Because you do work with such high net worth individuals, you describe them as ultra high net worth individuals. Do they have a higher allocation to alternatives?

Because you do work with such high net worth individuals, you describe them as ultra high net worth individuals. Do they have a higher allocation to alternatives?

Yes, absolutely we do. When you know, you need to have a certain level of wealth to access some forms of alternatives, and so that is a big part of our investment philosophy and We do believe it's additive to returns over time that you get a premium over what you can do well.

Yes, absolutely we do. When you know, you need to have a certain level of wealth to access some forms of alternatives, and so that is a big part of our investment philosophy and We do believe it's additive to returns over time that you get a premium over what you can do well.

Alternative alternatives it's such a broad category, so you know, dig into that part of the asset allocation. When we talk alternatives, what do you think and are you thinking venture capital, private equity, hedge fund, private credit? What is it? All the above?

Alternative alternatives it's such a broad category, so you know, dig into that part of the asset allocation. When we talk alternatives, what do you think and are you thinking venture capital, private equity, hedge fund, private credit? What is it? All the above?

So we are fully diversified with private capital gets so private equity all the way, you know, from from venture to buy out to all sorts of different areas.

So we are fully diversified with private capital gets so private equity all the way, you know, from from venture to buy out to all sorts of different areas.

Directly invested or are you doing like funds.

Directly invested or are you doing like funds.

Of funds direct investments. In some cases we'll do you know, a secondary strategy that may be more fund of funds as part of the allocation, but we invest direct in individual strategies typically and we do that on in the private credit world. In private real estate, we do allocate to hedge funds, which have you know a lot of those with more defensive strategies or market neutral approaches have held up really well in this environment.

Of funds direct investments. In some cases we'll do you know, a secondary strategy that may be more fund of funds as part of the allocation, but we invest direct in individual strategies typically and we do that on in the private credit world. In private real estate, we do allocate to hedge funds, which have you know a lot of those with more defensive strategies or market neutral approaches have held up really well in this environment.

So kind of across the spectrum, how.

So kind of across the spectrum, how.

Are you thinking about the environment, and certainly the news flow out of Washington, the trade war. I hate to keep saying war, but I don't know that it's a trade war. It's just a back and forth of going to do this, going to do this, going to do this, and we're just watching very carefully.