Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio Well.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio Well.

Israel said eight of its soldiers were killed in classes with Hesbolah in southern Lebanon, first casualties it suffered in an expanding ground incursion amid fears of a spiraling conflict with Around meantime, Benjamin net and Yahoo vowed to retaliate against Iran after it fired about two hundred ballistic missiles at Israel, a major escalation that world powers fear could spiral into a Middle East wide war or some of the conversations we had yesterday tim a World War three.

Israel said eight of its soldiers were killed in classes with Hesbolah in southern Lebanon, first casualties it suffered in an expanding ground incursion amid fears of a spiraling conflict with Around meantime, Benjamin net and Yahoo vowed to retaliate against Iran after it fired about two hundred ballistic missiles at Israel, a major escalation that world powers fear could spiral into a Middle East wide war or some of the conversations we had yesterday tim a World War three.

It's not just that. Televised comments made during a visit to Doha, Iran's president said if Israel takes further action against Iran, the Islamic Republic will quote give stronger response, and President Biden says G seven nations are discussing sanctions against Iran in response to the latest attack against Israel.

It's not just that. Televised comments made during a visit to Doha, Iran's president said if Israel takes further action against Iran, the Islamic Republic will quote give stronger response, and President Biden says G seven nations are discussing sanctions against Iran in response to the latest attack against Israel.

All right, so let's get to it. Let's get more with retired Lieutenant General Michael grew In. He is Geopolitical Intelligence Group member an advisory board member at Academy Securities, joining us from Virginia. General grew In, great to have you here with Tim and myself on BusinessWeek. Are we likely to see more back and forth between Israel and Iran for some time?

All right, so let's get to it. Let's get more with retired Lieutenant General Michael grew In. He is Geopolitical Intelligence Group member an advisory board member at Academy Securities, joining us from Virginia. General grew In, great to have you here with Tim and myself on BusinessWeek. Are we likely to see more back and forth between Israel and Iran for some time?

Yeah, inevitably.

Yeah, inevitably.

I think we've we've been on this cycle since October seventh last year, and I think where, you know.

I think we've we've been on this cycle since October seventh last year, and I think where, you know.

We look at the the the who has the balance of escalation, who who can escalate this? And it seems like every time that the Israelis achieve an objective that they that they've established, uh, the Iranians and or their proxies, uh, you know will escalate once again, and they'll and they'll they'll pull another trigger, and so you know, we're in this do loop of.

We look at the the the who has the balance of escalation, who who can escalate this? And it seems like every time that the Israelis achieve an objective that they that they've established, uh, the Iranians and or their proxies, uh, you know will escalate once again, and they'll and they'll they'll pull another trigger, and so you know, we're in this do loop of.

Continuous trigger and response, trigger and response. Of course, now it's really it's really become serious when we when we start talking about it in Israeli ground invasion and again, as as you just said, you know, eight Israeli soldiers already killed in the in the action once you're on the ground, especially in the broken terrain of southern Lebanon, it becomes extraordinarily dangerous and extraordinarily difficult.

Continuous trigger and response, trigger and response. Of course, now it's really it's really become serious when we when we start talking about it in Israeli ground invasion and again, as as you just said, you know, eight Israeli soldiers already killed in the in the action once you're on the ground, especially in the broken terrain of southern Lebanon, it becomes extraordinarily dangerous and extraordinarily difficult.

I do wonder one of my concerns, one of our concerns Bloomberg Opinion writing about it, our Andreas Kluth about you know, when does what Israel is doing become offensive versus defensive, and should then the US and other global allies rethink its support of Israel.

I do wonder one of my concerns, one of our concerns Bloomberg Opinion writing about it, our Andreas Kluth about you know, when does what Israel is doing become offensive versus defensive, and should then the US and other global allies rethink its support of Israel.

So thanks, thanks for the question. You know, it's a very it's a very complex situation of course.

So thanks, thanks for the question. You know, it's a very it's a very complex situation of course.

Uh.

Uh.

You know, the state of Israel, you know, has suffered hundreds of rockets today, you know, for you know, for many many weeks here as as Hesbola has made the northern part of the country uninhabitable. So you know, even you know, from a humanity aspect and from a law of armed conflict aspect, you know, Israel has a right to defend themselves beyond their borders in this space. That said, you know, this is not the first time that there's been an incursion into southern Lebanon. And and in fact, I mean you think about you know, going back years ago, you know, even nineteen eighty three, when the you know, when the US Marine barracks was bombed in Beirut. There has been a long history of tit for tat across that border. The Israelis and the UN have articulated the La Tani River as the border. That's about twenty miles north of the current border of Israel, and that's twenty miles of really rough terrain, really dangerous terrain, and really difficult terrain to operate on.

You know, the state of Israel, you know, has suffered hundreds of rockets today, you know, for you know, for many many weeks here as as Hesbola has made the northern part of the country uninhabitable. So you know, even you know, from a humanity aspect and from a law of armed conflict aspect, you know, Israel has a right to defend themselves beyond their borders in this space. That said, you know, this is not the first time that there's been an incursion into southern Lebanon. And and in fact, I mean you think about you know, going back years ago, you know, even nineteen eighty three, when the you know, when the US Marine barracks was bombed in Beirut. There has been a long history of tit for tat across that border. The Israelis and the UN have articulated the La Tani River as the border. That's about twenty miles north of the current border of Israel, and that's twenty miles of really rough terrain, really dangerous terrain, and really difficult terrain to operate on.

I want to go back to this idea of seeing an end to this conflict. And I'm wondering, given that there is this tit for tat, this idea of retaliation, after one side makes one move and then the other side retaliates, how do you see this conflict ending at least this iteration of the conflict.

I want to go back to this idea of seeing an end to this conflict. And I'm wondering, given that there is this tit for tat, this idea of retaliation, after one side makes one move and then the other side retaliates, how do you see this conflict ending at least this iteration of the conflict.

So so this iteration of the conflict, I think the you know, the principal parties are you know, of of of a hard heart and a hard stance here uh, Presidenttnyahu are Prime Minister of Netnah, who of course you know, has has has talked about what he's willing to do and what he wants to do to achieve the safety of of Israel and Uh and and there's not a lot of wavering on the Israeli side, on the on the Hesbula side, or on the Iranian side.

So so this iteration of the conflict, I think the you know, the principal parties are you know, of of of a hard heart and a hard stance here uh, Presidenttnyahu are Prime Minister of Netnah, who of course you know, has has has talked about what he's willing to do and what he wants to do to achieve the safety of of Israel and Uh and and there's not a lot of wavering on the Israeli side, on the on the Hesbula side, or on the Iranian side.

Uh.

Uh.

You know, even with uh, you know, the loss of many many of their Hesbela commanders and their IRGC commanders, we should always remember that those you know, those commanders are on the ground with hesblah uh in in Lebanon. You know, even with a really uh not very effect of SORTI of missiles against Israel the other day, you know, the Iranians are still calling for retaliation. So they are stuck on a wheel here of and the maybe the only thing that can start to bring some at least a place to talk outside of for tat exchanges is a relationship with other countries in the region. And here I'm talking about Jordan and Saudi Arabia and the Emirates Egypt, Like, is there a way to get back to the table at least stop firing missiles while we're you know, while we're trying to figure out what a long term solution looks like.

You know, even with uh, you know, the loss of many many of their Hesbela commanders and their IRGC commanders, we should always remember that those you know, those commanders are on the ground with hesblah uh in in Lebanon. You know, even with a really uh not very effect of SORTI of missiles against Israel the other day, you know, the Iranians are still calling for retaliation. So they are stuck on a wheel here of and the maybe the only thing that can start to bring some at least a place to talk outside of for tat exchanges is a relationship with other countries in the region. And here I'm talking about Jordan and Saudi Arabia and the Emirates Egypt, Like, is there a way to get back to the table at least stop firing missiles while we're you know, while we're trying to figure out what a long term solution looks like.

Is a long term solution does that include a two state a scenario in the end, and just got about thirty seconds.

Is a long term solution does that include a two state a scenario in the end, and just got about thirty seconds.

Left here, Well, clearly, you know, Lebanon is a captive state. You know, it's been captured by by Iran and so and then and then if you look over to god Asa, you know kind of when when we talk about a two state solution, uh you know, there's there's you know, even the Egyptians don't want to govern Gaza. You know, it is this in its current state, it is completely ungovernable. Uh you until Sinwar Sinwak goes and he's not going to go uhh you know, with his with his boots on, so like it is a you know until until uh we it's some resolution where this tip for tent is going to continue. All right, Yeah, there's not an offer.

Left here, Well, clearly, you know, Lebanon is a captive state. You know, it's been captured by by Iran and so and then and then if you look over to god Asa, you know kind of when when we talk about a two state solution, uh you know, there's there's you know, even the Egyptians don't want to govern Gaza. You know, it is this in its current state, it is completely ungovernable. Uh you until Sinwar Sinwak goes and he's not going to go uhh you know, with his with his boots on, so like it is a you know until until uh we it's some resolution where this tip for tent is going to continue. All right, Yeah, there's not an offer.

All right, got it? Thank you so much, and so glad we could reconnect with you. Retired Lieutenant General Michael grew and Geopolitical Intelligence Group member and Advisory board member at Academy Security.

All right, got it? Thank you so much, and so glad we could reconnect with you. Retired Lieutenant General Michael grew and Geopolitical Intelligence Group member and Advisory board member at Academy Security.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Karl Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio and Television.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Karl Messer and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio and Television.

All right, everybody you are listening and watching Bloomberg Business We Carol Masser along with Tim Stanevik. A lot going on. We do want to mention a headline that crossed Microsoft investing about seven hundred and fifty million dollars in open AI's latest fund raise, if you will, are fund raising round, which is a I gotta just say, this raise just has kind of blown me away. How much.

All right, everybody you are listening and watching Bloomberg Business We Carol Masser along with Tim Stanevik. A lot going on. We do want to mention a headline that crossed Microsoft investing about seven hundred and fifty million dollars in open AI's latest fund raise, if you will, are fund raising round, which is a I gotta just say, this raise just has kind of blown me away. How much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Microsoft has already invested thirteen billion dollars in the startup. Nvidia another name in there. Listen to this, Carol. Open ai completed a deal to raise six point six billion dollars in new funding. That new valuation at one hundred and fifty seven billion dollars.

Microsoft has already invested thirteen billion dollars in the startup. Nvidia another name in there. Listen to this, Carol. Open ai completed a deal to raise six point six billion dollars in new funding. That new valuation at one hundred and fifty seven billion dollars.

That's quite a fund raise, if you will.

That's quite a fund raise, if you will.

Yeah, the question is where does it go from here?

Yeah, the question is where does it go from here?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It may cost a lot of money to run this company. I can you look something up on chat GPT that costs money, uses a lot of energy.

It may cost a lot of money to run this company. I can you look something up on chat GPT that costs money, uses a lot of energy.

We talked about this with our Max Chafkin, right. The also the idea that it costs a lot of money to run it, so they're still trying to figure out I guess the way to profitability it is. By the way, the deal, one of the largest ever private investments, makes open ai one of the three largest venture backed startups, alongside Elon Musk's SpaceX and TikTok owner Byte Death. That's a creaty People familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified, are the.

We talked about this with our Max Chafkin, right. The also the idea that it costs a lot of money to run it, so they're still trying to figure out I guess the way to profitability it is. By the way, the deal, one of the largest ever private investments, makes open ai one of the three largest venture backed startups, alongside Elon Musk's SpaceX and TikTok owner Byte Death. That's a creaty People familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified, are the.

Names Thrive Capital, Coastala Ventures, Altimeter Capital, Fidelity Management and Research, soft Bank, and the Abu Dhabi based tech investment firm mgx I anticipated.

Names Thrive Capital, Coastala Ventures, Altimeter Capital, Fidelity Management and Research, soft Bank, and the Abu Dhabi based tech investment firm mgx I anticipated.

I think what's also staggering is that it's been a turbulent year for open AI, to say the least, So it's interesting to see this amount of money coming in to the company. I got to say, AI certainly one of the trends that we've been all over for the last two year and a half, and so is the new diet drugs that are out there.

I think what's also staggering is that it's been a turbulent year for open AI, to say the least, So it's interesting to see this amount of money coming in to the company. I got to say, AI certainly one of the trends that we've been all over for the last two year and a half, and so is the new diet drugs that are out there.

Yeah, because ozempic, well, we're not scared anymore. That's what food industry executives seem to be saying right now. After initial concerns about what ozempic and other GLP one's carol would do for their products. If people were taking these drugs, are they still going to buy as much food as they were buying before.

Yeah, because ozempic, well, we're not scared anymore. That's what food industry executives seem to be saying right now. After initial concerns about what ozempic and other GLP one's carol would do for their products. If people were taking these drugs, are they still going to buy as much food as they were buying before.

Well, it turns out big food they're kind of warming up to the GLP one drugs. Let's get to it with Bloomberg News consumer reporter Dina Shankers. She's with us in New York City. Great read data just remind us First up, that initial terror. We used to talk about it, right, these new drugs were out there and all the food companies, the package food companies were like, oh my god, what's going to happen to all our business businesses? Remind us to kind of about that backdrop before we get to where we are today.

Well, it turns out big food they're kind of warming up to the GLP one drugs. Let's get to it with Bloomberg News consumer reporter Dina Shankers. She's with us in New York City. Great read data just remind us First up, that initial terror. We used to talk about it, right, these new drugs were out there and all the food companies, the package food companies were like, oh my god, what's going to happen to all our business businesses? Remind us to kind of about that backdrop before we get to where we are today.

Sure, so I can tell you for me. It started last fall when I was interviewing Steve Kaylene, the CEO of Kelenova, the snack company, and I asked him like, well, what are you thinking about these GLP one drugs? And they were like, listen, we're watching it. We're not sitting here, we're not being you know, just complacent on this, but we're watching it, and well we're prepared to mitigate any impacts. We then saw less than a year ago, earlier this year, that the CEO of Novo Nordisk, which makes Ozembic and we Goobi, that they told us that they were getting phone calls from CEOs of food companies that were scared. They didn't know what was going on, and there was this big question that was coming up. We saw it in news headlines. It was just like a major topic of conversation was ozempic going to to finally deal a blow to big food that any diet trend of the past was simply unable to do.

Sure, so I can tell you for me. It started last fall when I was interviewing Steve Kaylene, the CEO of Kelenova, the snack company, and I asked him like, well, what are you thinking about these GLP one drugs? And they were like, listen, we're watching it. We're not sitting here, we're not being you know, just complacent on this, but we're watching it, and well we're prepared to mitigate any impacts. We then saw less than a year ago, earlier this year, that the CEO of Novo Nordisk, which makes Ozembic and we Goobi, that they told us that they were getting phone calls from CEOs of food companies that were scared. They didn't know what was going on, and there was this big question that was coming up. We saw it in news headlines. It was just like a major topic of conversation was ozempic going to to finally deal a blow to big food that any diet trend of the past was simply unable to do.

And just in case anybody forgot, Kelenova makes those good things like cheese it and pop tarts and all those good kringles, exactly right.

And just in case anybody forgot, Kelenova makes those good things like cheese it and pop tarts and all those good kringles, exactly right.

Things that maybe you would need as much of if you're taking those perhaps, But Dina, you're also here to tell us that big food, well they're going to be just fine. How have they adapted?

Things that maybe you would need as much of if you're taking those perhaps, But Dina, you're also here to tell us that big food, well they're going to be just fine. How have they adapted?

Well, so that's what they're saying. Anyway, what we found is that some companies are basically like, oh, well, we're like, our portfolio is perfect for GLP one. Of course, so we saw Nestley roll out an entire new line called Vital pursuit of basically like single frozen, single served meals that are high protein, they have fiber, they have the nutrients that people are looking for when they're on these drugs or often when they're not on these drugs. And so then we also heard other companies like Campbell, Soup and Anne say in public presentations that they had foods that were perfect for this cohort. And we spoke with Connagra, which has spoken a little bit about this before publicly, and we had a conversation with them asking them what they've seen, and they said they're seeing it. They're seeing a bump in their frozen single served meals and it's small but measurable, and it's certainly something that they're going to keep an eye out to see how it changes.

Well, so that's what they're saying. Anyway, what we found is that some companies are basically like, oh, well, we're like, our portfolio is perfect for GLP one. Of course, so we saw Nestley roll out an entire new line called Vital pursuit of basically like single frozen, single served meals that are high protein, they have fiber, they have the nutrients that people are looking for when they're on these drugs or often when they're not on these drugs. And so then we also heard other companies like Campbell, Soup and Anne say in public presentations that they had foods that were perfect for this cohort. And we spoke with Connagra, which has spoken a little bit about this before publicly, and we had a conversation with them asking them what they've seen, and they said they're seeing it. They're seeing a bump in their frozen single served meals and it's small but measurable, and it's certainly something that they're going to keep an eye out to see how it changes.

All right, So what does the investment community say about all of this. They're like, great new revenue stream, or they're like, wait, the jury is still out on this.

All right, So what does the investment community say about all of this. They're like, great new revenue stream, or they're like, wait, the jury is still out on this.

So most of the most of the people that I've spoken to, most of the analysts, experts, et cetera, were like, yeah, there's opportunity here for some of these companies. And one stressed his name is Bobby Gibbs. He's a partner at Oliver Wyman, and he was stressing just that like, even if you're not on a GLP one drug, maybe you were and you got off, or maybe you never were, but you really are just health conscious. This is a growing part of the of the world of American consumers that we all want to eat better, and so making foods that serve those needs is a growing opportunity. One uh, one person I spoke with Nicholas Faraday over at Rabobank. He was. He was a little more skeptical, especially on snack companies, because some of the snack companies have not said so much that they, you know, are going to grow off of GLP ones, but that they don't expect any real impact. And including Kelenova, which at first was was the first company I talked to that was or I shouldn't say worried that was watching it that place of risk that they no longer see it as being something that we have to worry about.

So most of the most of the people that I've spoken to, most of the analysts, experts, et cetera, were like, yeah, there's opportunity here for some of these companies. And one stressed his name is Bobby Gibbs. He's a partner at Oliver Wyman, and he was stressing just that like, even if you're not on a GLP one drug, maybe you were and you got off, or maybe you never were, but you really are just health conscious. This is a growing part of the of the world of American consumers that we all want to eat better, and so making foods that serve those needs is a growing opportunity. One uh, one person I spoke with Nicholas Faraday over at Rabobank. He was. He was a little more skeptical, especially on snack companies, because some of the snack companies have not said so much that they, you know, are going to grow off of GLP ones, but that they don't expect any real impact. And including Kelenova, which at first was was the first company I talked to that was or I shouldn't say worried that was watching it that place of risk that they no longer see it as being something that we have to worry about.

We got to run Dina. Everybody should read it. Go to Bloomberg dot com. Dina Shankar, thanks so much. This is Bloomberg.

We got to run Dina. Everybody should read it. Go to Bloomberg dot com. Dina Shankar, thanks so much. This is Bloomberg.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple, card Play and and Brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app or warn't just live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple, card Play and and Brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app or warn't just live on YouTube.

Okay, Carol, come off, no, Charlie. Is it too early for yes holiday shopping?

Okay, Carol, come off, no, Charlie. Is it too early for yes holiday shopping?

Yes? Yes?

Yes? Yes?

Okay, Oh, it's gonna be seventy degrees. Here, here's why it might be too early for us to talk about it in the context of if we've done it. I'm listening, but it's still important to talk about because it's so important for the US economy, Carol. It gives us a good idea how consumers are feeling right now. Also, there's this port strike in the US.

Okay, Oh, it's gonna be seventy degrees. Here, here's why it might be too early for us to talk about it in the context of if we've done it. I'm listening, but it's still important to talk about because it's so important for the US economy, Carol. It gives us a good idea how consumers are feeling right now. Also, there's this port strike in the US.

Have you heard about this, We've covered it.

Have you heard about this, We've covered it.

Yeah, thanks for kidding. Bloomberg Intelligence says it could drive up costs, slow the flow of holiday merchandise, threaten the ability for retailers to meet holiday demand. Kind of the worst timing, Yeah, for one of these strikes. Well, the management consulting from PwC has crunched the numbers. They found that even though holiday spending is predicted to surge to a record high, the increase this year, Carol, is less than the increase over the previous two years.

Yeah, thanks for kidding. Bloomberg Intelligence says it could drive up costs, slow the flow of holiday merchandise, threaten the ability for retailers to meet holiday demand. Kind of the worst timing, Yeah, for one of these strikes. Well, the management consulting from PwC has crunched the numbers. They found that even though holiday spending is predicted to surge to a record high, the increase this year, Carol, is less than the increase over the previous two years.

All right, interesting, So a lot to think about when it comes to holiday spending, such an important part, as you said, tim in terms of the US economy. Alie Furman is Consumer Markets industry leader over at PwC. She joins us from Seattle. Ali, good to have you here with us. How are you?

All right, interesting, So a lot to think about when it comes to holiday spending, such an important part, as you said, tim in terms of the US economy. Alie Furman is Consumer Markets industry leader over at PwC. She joins us from Seattle. Ali, good to have you here with us. How are you?

I'm great, Carol, how are you do it?

I'm great, Carol, how are you do it?

Okay? Trying to assess everything that seems to be coming at us, including that strike on the East coast ports we're trying to assess. Obviously, the longer it goes on, the more problematic it becomes. How are you watching this from your perch at PwC.

Okay? Trying to assess everything that seems to be coming at us, including that strike on the East coast ports we're trying to assess. Obviously, the longer it goes on, the more problematic it becomes. How are you watching this from your perch at PwC.

Yeah, that's a really important question and a question of the moment for sure. So look, we are predicting that in store holiday shopping is going to increase this year. About forty five percent of the consumers we surveyed, we surveyed over four thousand consumers, it's our tenth anniversary of doing so, said they want to shop in store. We with the porch strew can also importantly the shorter week We are losing a week between Thanksgiving and Christmas that we that we've had in the past, so that actually will shorten the shipping time of gifts that people purchase online. These factors combine, we think will increase store traffic even more than what our survey respondents had initially planned. And and your question when you when you first joined, when I first joined the broadcast about is it too early to consider holiday shopping?

Yeah, that's a really important question and a question of the moment for sure. So look, we are predicting that in store holiday shopping is going to increase this year. About forty five percent of the consumers we surveyed, we surveyed over four thousand consumers, it's our tenth anniversary of doing so, said they want to shop in store. We with the porch strew can also importantly the shorter week We are losing a week between Thanksgiving and Christmas that we that we've had in the past, so that actually will shorten the shipping time of gifts that people purchase online. These factors combine, we think will increase store traffic even more than what our survey respondents had initially planned. And and your question when you when you first joined, when I first joined the broadcast about is it too early to consider holiday shopping?

Yes, from from our.

Yes, from from our.

Perspective, you know, it seems like it, but really no, particularly you know this porch strike issue. Look, we've most of the goods for the holiday season are already here in the United States. But if you're interested in purchasing purchasing an item that's very popular that may fly off the shelf, it would behoove you as a consumer to purchase that sooner rather than later due to some of these issues that I just mentioned.

Perspective, you know, it seems like it, but really no, particularly you know this porch strike issue. Look, we've most of the goods for the holiday season are already here in the United States. But if you're interested in purchasing purchasing an item that's very popular that may fly off the shelf, it would behoove you as a consumer to purchase that sooner rather than later due to some of these issues that I just mentioned.

You guys have a really cool port in Seattle. I must say, Carol and I were there a few months ago, driving past it on the way to that Bloomberg Green event.

You guys have a really cool port in Seattle. I must say, Carol and I were there a few months ago, driving past it on the way to that Bloomberg Green event.

Yes, well right, yeah, yeah, this is pretty cool, just to reminder, like, of all the stuff that goes in and out. Yeah, take it for granted.

Yes, well right, yeah, yeah, this is pretty cool, just to reminder, like, of all the stuff that goes in and out. Yeah, take it for granted.

But yeah, when you talk about the West Coast sports, we often talk about Port of La and Port of Long Beach, but Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, big ones. Hey, talk to us a little bit about some of the some of what you found in the research at PwC that has that indicates that consumers are feeling a little stretched right now. I was struck by this in the research that we got from you, sent over by our producer Paul, that the majority of consumers right now are feeling stretched.

But yeah, when you talk about the West Coast sports, we often talk about Port of La and Port of Long Beach, but Oakland, San Francisco, Seattle, big ones. Hey, talk to us a little bit about some of the some of what you found in the research at PwC that has that indicates that consumers are feeling a little stretched right now. I was struck by this in the research that we got from you, sent over by our producer Paul, that the majority of consumers right now are feeling stretched.

Yeah, it's interesting, although not particularly surprising given the inflationary environment. So so we are projecting that spend consumer average spend on the holidays will increase seven percent year over year. It will actually take average spend per shopper up to a record amount of almost seven veen hundred dollars per shopper. But what's interesting about that statistic is for the previous two years we projected double digit increases and spend. So although we're hitting a record high this year, it is not increasing as much as it has in the previous two years. And the reasons why are because fifty nine percent of consumers and our survey said inflation will impact their holiday spending this year, and eighty nine percent of consumers said price of an item is going to impact their spending. Now, when you compare that to the survey we did ten years ago, as I mentioned, we've been doing this for ten years now, only seventy percent of consumers said that price was an important factor in their holiday spending decision. So you know that alone shows you that the inflationary environment is breeding more price sensitive and value oriented customers than the last two years and certainly than the last ten years.

Yeah, it's interesting, although not particularly surprising given the inflationary environment. So so we are projecting that spend consumer average spend on the holidays will increase seven percent year over year. It will actually take average spend per shopper up to a record amount of almost seven veen hundred dollars per shopper. But what's interesting about that statistic is for the previous two years we projected double digit increases and spend. So although we're hitting a record high this year, it is not increasing as much as it has in the previous two years. And the reasons why are because fifty nine percent of consumers and our survey said inflation will impact their holiday spending this year, and eighty nine percent of consumers said price of an item is going to impact their spending. Now, when you compare that to the survey we did ten years ago, as I mentioned, we've been doing this for ten years now, only seventy percent of consumers said that price was an important factor in their holiday spending decision. So you know that alone shows you that the inflationary environment is breeding more price sensitive and value oriented customers than the last two years and certainly than the last ten years.

Allie to the other trends that you guys found is that consumers turning to resale items and also the use debit cards. Walk us through what your findings were.

Allie to the other trends that you guys found is that consumers turning to resale items and also the use debit cards. Walk us through what your findings were.

Yeah, absolutely, this is a really interesting one. So first of all, you know, the broad trend on resale items and consumers, you know, shopping vintage rental items, has been ticking up for the past few years. We do, however, think it's it's kind of reached a tipping point this year around Theday season, with forty five percent of our survey respondents saying that they plan to gift resale or used products in addition to private labeled and store brands. But that's up from thirty eight percent just last year. So you know, when you buy resale items, it's not necessarily more sustainable, but it is more economical, and that speaks to the same point about consumers being more price sensitive and value oriented. So that's particularly interesting. Your other question about payment.

Yeah, absolutely, this is a really interesting one. So first of all, you know, the broad trend on resale items and consumers, you know, shopping vintage rental items, has been ticking up for the past few years. We do, however, think it's it's kind of reached a tipping point this year around Theday season, with forty five percent of our survey respondents saying that they plan to gift resale or used products in addition to private labeled and store brands. But that's up from thirty eight percent just last year. So you know, when you buy resale items, it's not necessarily more sustainable, but it is more economical, and that speaks to the same point about consumers being more price sensitive and value oriented. So that's particularly interesting. Your other question about payment.

Methods, I thought this is actually one really curious me too, Go ahead.

Methods, I thought this is actually one really curious me too, Go ahead.

Super interesting. So a couple threads tied together here that I think speak to why we're seeing this kind of shift in preferred payment methods. So our survey respondents this year actually ranked paying with debit card as number one. Sixty five percent of folks plan to pay with a debit card then cash. I know, cash was thirty eight percent. Cash was second and credit card was third. When you compare that to ten years ago, cash was at the top and then credit card than debit card. You tie that stat to the fact that gen Z so these are the folks who are between the ages of twelve and twenty seven years old. Their spending power is increasing significantly year over year. I think we're projecting a thirty seven percent increase in their spend from last year to this year. You know, this is a generation that probably does not yet have a lot of credit built up or you know, and they're used to they're probably using debit cards, they're more likely to use mobile payment options, So that is probably par part of what we're seeing there. The other reason, we think has to do with the fact that credit card delinquency, you know, has been ticking up slowly for the last three years, so there's probably something to that as well. While people are you know, choosing devid and cash over credit this holiday season.

Super interesting. So a couple threads tied together here that I think speak to why we're seeing this kind of shift in preferred payment methods. So our survey respondents this year actually ranked paying with debit card as number one. Sixty five percent of folks plan to pay with a debit card then cash. I know, cash was thirty eight percent. Cash was second and credit card was third. When you compare that to ten years ago, cash was at the top and then credit card than debit card. You tie that stat to the fact that gen Z so these are the folks who are between the ages of twelve and twenty seven years old. Their spending power is increasing significantly year over year. I think we're projecting a thirty seven percent increase in their spend from last year to this year. You know, this is a generation that probably does not yet have a lot of credit built up or you know, and they're used to they're probably using debit cards, they're more likely to use mobile payment options, So that is probably par part of what we're seeing there. The other reason, we think has to do with the fact that credit card delinquency, you know, has been ticking up slowly for the last three years, so there's probably something to that as well. While people are you know, choosing devid and cash over credit this holiday season.

Ali, you've been doing this at PwC or PBC has been doing this for ten years. I should say. So, you have good historical data here, but I got to tell you, if somebody were to survey me asking what I'd spend on the holidays this year, I would have no idea what to tell them. Carol, I haven't seen your list yet, so I don't know what you want.

Ali, you've been doing this at PwC or PBC has been doing this for ten years. I should say. So, you have good historical data here, but I got to tell you, if somebody were to survey me asking what I'd spend on the holidays this year, I would have no idea what to tell them. Carol, I haven't seen your list yet, so I don't know what you want.

Do you know, track the like kind of family spending, like around the holidays and stuff?

Do you know, track the like kind of family spending, like around the holidays and stuff?

I mean in September in October?

I mean in September in October?

Like I mean, I don't know that I know about it ahead of time, but I do, like at.

Like I mean, I don't know that I know about it ahead of time, but I do, like at.

The end, I do at the end. Yeah, absolutely, look at what happened. But past performance is no indication of what you know future performance. So Ali, how has historically how has the survey done? And how do you adjust for discrepancies that you see when you survey versus when you look back on the data when you actually get it comes to January.

The end, I do at the end. Yeah, absolutely, look at what happened. But past performance is no indication of what you know future performance. So Ali, how has historically how has the survey done? And how do you adjust for discrepancies that you see when you survey versus when you look back on the data when you actually get it comes to January.

Yeah, we collaborate with a third party and we survey a broad range of folks, both generationally and regionally. We do have a set of questions that have been fairly consistent across the ten years we've been doing it, but of course, you know, we modify questions based on what's happening in the marketplace, like what's the most interest at the moment as well, So it's kind of a mixed bag. But I would tell you, you know, from a trend line perspective, there are some pretty interesting tenure trends. So when you think about overall spending or actually, let me hit Black Friday, that one super interesting. So Black Friday is actually up. People plan to shop on Black Friday three percent more than they have in the past year, and it's the highest we've seen of people planning to shop on Black Friday since twenty nineteen. But when you compare that to the first time we did a survey, fifty nine percent of our respondents say that they were going to shop on Black Friday, and this year, you know, it's much much less than that. So just the overall behavioral patterns of consumers, you know, the advent of e commerce coming on strong through COVID and beyond with some of these digitally native generations like gen Z, it's just a really interesting trend line. The other thing I would tell you that's super interesting, So ten years ago, a much higher proportion of people plan to shop in store versus online. We've seen that over the ten years, we've done. The survey steadily decline over the years, as you would suspect with the e commerce coming up and the quote unquote death of brick and mortar. Well, this year, for the first time since twenty eighteen, we see a higher percentage of folks planning to shop in store, and similarly to the payments point I made earlier, we believe this is being fueled by gen Z. So it may seem counterintuitive because gen Z is a digitally native generation. Yeah, they prefer shopping.

Yeah, we collaborate with a third party and we survey a broad range of folks, both generationally and regionally. We do have a set of questions that have been fairly consistent across the ten years we've been doing it, but of course, you know, we modify questions based on what's happening in the marketplace, like what's the most interest at the moment as well, So it's kind of a mixed bag. But I would tell you, you know, from a trend line perspective, there are some pretty interesting tenure trends. So when you think about overall spending or actually, let me hit Black Friday, that one super interesting. So Black Friday is actually up. People plan to shop on Black Friday three percent more than they have in the past year, and it's the highest we've seen of people planning to shop on Black Friday since twenty nineteen. But when you compare that to the first time we did a survey, fifty nine percent of our respondents say that they were going to shop on Black Friday, and this year, you know, it's much much less than that. So just the overall behavioral patterns of consumers, you know, the advent of e commerce coming on strong through COVID and beyond with some of these digitally native generations like gen Z, it's just a really interesting trend line. The other thing I would tell you that's super interesting, So ten years ago, a much higher proportion of people plan to shop in store versus online. We've seen that over the ten years, we've done. The survey steadily decline over the years, as you would suspect with the e commerce coming up and the quote unquote death of brick and mortar. Well, this year, for the first time since twenty eighteen, we see a higher percentage of folks planning to shop in store, and similarly to the payments point I made earlier, we believe this is being fueled by gen Z. So it may seem counterintuitive because gen Z is a digitally native generation. Yeah, they prefer shopping.

What are you or you're a.

What are you or you're a.

Millennium Jerry, I don't think I'm not even close to gen Z.

Millennium Jerry, I don't think I'm not even close to gen Z.

N Z could be.

N Z could be.

My kids always.

My kids always.

Forget gen Z. Yeah, they couldn't believe they're toddlers.

Forget gen Z. Yeah, they couldn't believe they're toddlers.

Toddler.

Toddler.

Thank you, Carol, You're welcome.

Thank you, Carol, You're welcome.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

Sorry, Hey, I do you remember Ali? Is there anything the takeaways that you guys have been doing this for for several years and so you have some nice historical perspective, anything that out there that says the consumers getting a little stressed and just got about thirty seconds.

Sorry, Hey, I do you remember Ali? Is there anything the takeaways that you guys have been doing this for for several years and so you have some nice historical perspective, anything that out there that says the consumers getting a little stressed and just got about thirty seconds.

Yeah, listen. I think the fact that eighty nine percent said price is a huge consideration shows stress. I also think that you know this K curve demand where you're seeing people pull back on you know, some of the wants and the needs. But yeh, willing to pay for convenience is an interesting phenomena. But you know, yeah so so. But but despite that, we do we broadly feel that the consumer is resilient. We are very much aligned with the philosophy. It will be a soft landing, got it. You know, end is up, it's it will hit a record this year despite the macroeconomic climate that we're in. So yeah, so although the stress, you know, got it, the advice stop early, you know, shop early if you want those shop early.

Yeah, listen. I think the fact that eighty nine percent said price is a huge consideration shows stress. I also think that you know this K curve demand where you're seeing people pull back on you know, some of the wants and the needs. But yeh, willing to pay for convenience is an interesting phenomena. But you know, yeah so so. But but despite that, we do we broadly feel that the consumer is resilient. We are very much aligned with the philosophy. It will be a soft landing, got it. You know, end is up, it's it will hit a record this year despite the macroeconomic climate that we're in. So yeah, so although the stress, you know, got it, the advice stop early, you know, shop early if you want those shop early.

Yeah, stop might be listening. Hey, Alie, thank you so much. Ellie Furman, consumer markets industry leader at PwC, joining us a journal about you.

Yeah, stop might be listening. Hey, Alie, thank you so much. Ellie Furman, consumer markets industry leader at PwC, joining us a journal about you.

Let me drive?

Let me drive?

No, no, honey, please, I want to drive.

No, no, honey, please, I want to drive.

It's a good question.

It's a good question.

This is the drive to the clothes on Bloomberg Radio.

This is the drive to the clothes on Bloomberg Radio.

Well, look at the clock, Carol, I know, time flies. He does have fun. We've got a lot to talk to Philip Plumbo about because he says that the upcoming election, a softening job market, and slowing consumer spending are all risks that investors should have on their Radar just talked.

Well, look at the clock, Carol, I know, time flies. He does have fun. We've got a lot to talk to Philip Plumbo about because he says that the upcoming election, a softening job market, and slowing consumer spending are all risks that investors should have on their Radar just talked.

About consumer spending the upcoming retail environment, right, Yeah.

About consumer spending the upcoming retail environment, right, Yeah.

So let's drive to the clothes. Philip Ploombo is founder, CEO, and chief investment officer at Polombo Wealth Management got about six hundred million dollars in assets under management. Phil joining us once again from Great Neck, New York. I want to talk about the consumer because if you weren't listening to our previous segment, we spoke with Ali Furman.

So let's drive to the clothes. Philip Ploombo is founder, CEO, and chief investment officer at Polombo Wealth Management got about six hundred million dollars in assets under management. Phil joining us once again from Great Neck, New York. I want to talk about the consumer because if you weren't listening to our previous segment, we spoke with Ali Furman.

To us all the time, NonStop.

To us all the time, NonStop.

Phil. I know, yeah, he's nodding, he's nodding, he does. What do you make of the consumer right now? Because the consumer is so important to this economy.

Phil. I know, yeah, he's nodding, he's nodding, he does. What do you make of the consumer right now? Because the consumer is so important to this economy.

Philip, It always is. So a couple of things in terms of the consumer, right the key thing is the COVID savings that everybody was talking about now is completely dissipated, and the credit card debt now is up parabolically, and the jobs numbers, except from the ADP report today deteriorating a little bit. So the key risk right now really is the consumer and if the consumers continue to strengthen. But I just want to reiterate, and I talked about this in my notes, is that I'm still bullish the equity market overall. Two main reasons. Number one, the FED is now accommodative. Right, A lot of people are trying to get twenty five basis points, fifty basis points this year, one hundred and two hundred next year. That's really a waste of time. The only thing that we really need to understand is the FED is being accommodative. And then earnings are anticipated to grow about nine percent this year next year twelve to thirteen. Right, So those are reasons why you want to be positive on the equity market. You just have to watch the consumer all right.

Philip, It always is. So a couple of things in terms of the consumer, right the key thing is the COVID savings that everybody was talking about now is completely dissipated, and the credit card debt now is up parabolically, and the jobs numbers, except from the ADP report today deteriorating a little bit. So the key risk right now really is the consumer and if the consumers continue to strengthen. But I just want to reiterate, and I talked about this in my notes, is that I'm still bullish the equity market overall. Two main reasons. Number one, the FED is now accommodative. Right, A lot of people are trying to get twenty five basis points, fifty basis points this year, one hundred and two hundred next year. That's really a waste of time. The only thing that we really need to understand is the FED is being accommodative. And then earnings are anticipated to grow about nine percent this year next year twelve to thirteen. Right, So those are reasons why you want to be positive on the equity market. You just have to watch the consumer all right.

Earnings is a big bucket. So if you divide it into different sector buckets when it comes to earnings, where do you think the outperformance will be? Where do you think the underperformance might be?

Earnings is a big bucket. So if you divide it into different sector buckets when it comes to earnings, where do you think the outperformance will be? Where do you think the underperformance might be?

So I think energy right now? In healthcare. If you look at the estimates, it seems to be some negative estimates for this year and next year, and then technology seems to be one of the better growers, and actually consumed discretionary seems to be even above twelve thirteen percent for twenty twenty five.

So I think energy right now? In healthcare. If you look at the estimates, it seems to be some negative estimates for this year and next year, and then technology seems to be one of the better growers, and actually consumed discretionary seems to be even above twelve thirteen percent for twenty twenty five.

Okay, look at that.

Okay, look at that.

So would you play then on that anticipation? Forgive me Tim would you then, is that how you would allocate in terms of the equity environment. Would you play that earnings card?

So would you play then on that anticipation? Forgive me Tim would you then, is that how you would allocate in terms of the equity environment. Would you play that earnings card?

The way I look at investing is where are their opportunities, right, So what are areas that have gotten hit over the past couple of years and opportunities where businesses have high returns on investing capital, lots of free cash flow and somewhat stable earnings. And for me, you know, utilities, was that three, four or five months ago. We took a position energy, which I've talked about on the show with you guys real estate. It's another area that we positioned clients in over the past five and six months, which all have been profitable. But today, specifically, the healthcare industry to me looks exciting. And the reason why is a couple of things. Number one is we've seen a deterioration in pricing due to COVID number one, number two regulation do the ira AC, and then number three rates going up. That's all affected to healthcare industry. But there are businesses on the large farmer side of things that do look attractive and also on the body tech side of things. So if you're looking for an entry point, I think healthcare looks really attractive as you think going out to the next two to three years.

The way I look at investing is where are their opportunities, right, So what are areas that have gotten hit over the past couple of years and opportunities where businesses have high returns on investing capital, lots of free cash flow and somewhat stable earnings. And for me, you know, utilities, was that three, four or five months ago. We took a position energy, which I've talked about on the show with you guys real estate. It's another area that we positioned clients in over the past five and six months, which all have been profitable. But today, specifically, the healthcare industry to me looks exciting. And the reason why is a couple of things. Number one is we've seen a deterioration in pricing due to COVID number one, number two regulation do the ira AC, and then number three rates going up. That's all affected to healthcare industry. But there are businesses on the large farmer side of things that do look attractive and also on the body tech side of things. So if you're looking for an entry point, I think healthcare looks really attractive as you think going out to the next two to three years.

Hey, so on that, you know, Tim and I spent some time talking about the healthcare sector, specifically Humana, which was down almost twenty four percent. Today it's still down about twelve percent. So when it comes to healthcare again, that's a big bucket. Is that a name that you think with this hit that you would be interested in or you're a little bit concerned fundamentally about that story.

Hey, so on that, you know, Tim and I spent some time talking about the healthcare sector, specifically Humana, which was down almost twenty four percent. Today it's still down about twelve percent. So when it comes to healthcare again, that's a big bucket. Is that a name that you think with this hit that you would be interested in or you're a little bit concerned fundamentally about that story.

Yeah, I'd be concerned about that. I'm not going to jump in front of the bus on that one. But what we're interested in is so we own Johnson Johnson and something that we're looking to even add to right JANEJ is a company that they're not for a long time, diverse set of revenues, tons of free cash flow, more than any business out there at twenty percent of sales. You know, they're spending a lot of money on research and development, making great acquisition, especially in a rare disease space in medical devices. You know their leaders with their block books their drugs and psoriasis and on the medical device side with orthopedics. So if you think about J ANDJ, where their position today from a fair market value standpoint. You know, again, it's a boring type business, but I think kind of boring's back right now with the overall market. Everybody's excited about Meg seven, which I'm fine with, but I think the other four hundred ninety three stocks is we all should be paying attention to, which I think we see move over the next year or two.

Yeah, I'd be concerned about that. I'm not going to jump in front of the bus on that one. But what we're interested in is so we own Johnson Johnson and something that we're looking to even add to right JANEJ is a company that they're not for a long time, diverse set of revenues, tons of free cash flow, more than any business out there at twenty percent of sales. You know, they're spending a lot of money on research and development, making great acquisition, especially in a rare disease space in medical devices. You know their leaders with their block books their drugs and psoriasis and on the medical device side with orthopedics. So if you think about J ANDJ, where their position today from a fair market value standpoint. You know, again, it's a boring type business, but I think kind of boring's back right now with the overall market. Everybody's excited about Meg seven, which I'm fine with, but I think the other four hundred ninety three stocks is we all should be paying attention to, which I think we see move over the next year or two.

Do you feel like the lawsuits over baby powder in terms of J and J, you feel confident enough about them and that overhang.

Do you feel like the lawsuits over baby powder in terms of J and J, you feel confident enough about them and that overhang.

I do. I feel like the risk reward is there, and I stand what you're saying, and it's definitely still the risk out there. Many analysts are talking about that, but I think, you know, like markets always are are ahead of that, and I think markets have priced that into J and J, which is one of the reasons why it's been down from its peak. But overall, again, with their free cash flow, you're talking about twenty billion dollars in free cash flow, right so, and that's every single year. So I think Jane Jay's position if the lawsuit were to get was it to get into a situation where it goes off. It's not on their side at this point. You know, that'd be problematic but I think overall, the risk award is there, and so.

I do. I feel like the risk reward is there, and I stand what you're saying, and it's definitely still the risk out there. Many analysts are talking about that, but I think, you know, like markets always are are ahead of that, and I think markets have priced that into J and J, which is one of the reasons why it's been down from its peak. But overall, again, with their free cash flow, you're talking about twenty billion dollars in free cash flow, right so, and that's every single year. So I think Jane Jay's position if the lawsuit were to get was it to get into a situation where it goes off. It's not on their side at this point. You know, that'd be problematic but I think overall, the risk award is there, and so.

You're saying that a large payout they could deal with absolutely.

You're saying that a large payout they could deal with absolutely.

Okay, Okay, janej one of the names on your red or can you give us another name?

Okay, Okay, janej one of the names on your red or can you give us another name?

So on the biotech side, which I talked about with you, is on the biotech side, we use actually a strategic partner that that actually gives us names that we invest in the portfolio. We depend on him for that. It's the small cap buiotix space. So what I would recommend investors do is take a look at small cap biotech. You know, that's an area that's really been hit hard over the past couple of years, mainly because interest rates were rough, and it's it's.

So on the biotech side, which I talked about with you, is on the biotech side, we use actually a strategic partner that that actually gives us names that we invest in the portfolio. We depend on him for that. It's the small cap buiotix space. So what I would recommend investors do is take a look at small cap biotech. You know, that's an area that's really been hit hard over the past couple of years, mainly because interest rates were rough, and it's it's.

Such a risky area because these are those companies that are made or broken by approval process of the FDA, whether or not a drug works in a clinical trial. I mean, some of the biggest decliners or gainers on any given day are tiny biotechs that many people have never heard of.

Such a risky area because these are those companies that are made or broken by approval process of the FDA, whether or not a drug works in a clinical trial. I mean, some of the biggest decliners or gainers on any given day are tiny biotechs that many people have never heard of.

Yeah, so many of these thoughts are down seventy percent from the peak. But again, if you have somebody that's really been in the business for a very long time understands the industry understand to know what to look for, especially within management that's like fifty percent of it. You can do very very well. Especially it's a sect that that really has been beaten up mainly because the interest rates and it's a cost it's a heavy, heavy capital, cost intensive business. So it's an area you know, you don't put all your money in there, but it's an area where we allocate typically five percent of our client's portfolios two and a half percent. But it's an era we feel you can make really good money over the next two to three years.

Yeah, so many of these thoughts are down seventy percent from the peak. But again, if you have somebody that's really been in the business for a very long time understands the industry understand to know what to look for, especially within management that's like fifty percent of it. You can do very very well. Especially it's a sect that that really has been beaten up mainly because the interest rates and it's a cost it's a heavy, heavy capital, cost intensive business. So it's an area you know, you don't put all your money in there, but it's an area where we allocate typically five percent of our client's portfolios two and a half percent. But it's an era we feel you can make really good money over the next two to three years.

Yeah, the Spider SMP Biotech Equity ATF definitely bouncing around since late June, and it's up I'm just checking here, UB up about ten percent so far this year. Hey, One area I just want to get to before we leave. Just got about forty five seconds to a minute left here, phil is China, and particularly if you take a look at the Nazak Golden Dragon China index is up about twenty three percent for the year. But if you look at just where it's been, I think in the last month or so, we're up about forty percent. Are you waiting into that area? Some of those Chinese names that trade here in the United States. Anything that looks of interest.

Yeah, the Spider SMP Biotech Equity ATF definitely bouncing around since late June, and it's up I'm just checking here, UB up about ten percent so far this year. Hey, One area I just want to get to before we leave. Just got about forty five seconds to a minute left here, phil is China, and particularly if you take a look at the Nazak Golden Dragon China index is up about twenty three percent for the year. But if you look at just where it's been, I think in the last month or so, we're up about forty percent. Are you waiting into that area? Some of those Chinese names that trade here in the United States. Anything that looks of interest.

There, Yes, So we stay away from China simply because we just don't trust the numbers that they that they put out there publicly when it comes to their companies. We think it's an area you could probably make money because of the stimulus that they put through, but overall as investors, we shy away from there.

There, Yes, So we stay away from China simply because we just don't trust the numbers that they that they put out there publicly when it comes to their companies. We think it's an area you could probably make money because of the stimulus that they put through, but overall as investors, we shy away from there.

All right, Gonna leave it there. Fun to talk names and some areas with you, Phil, Thank you so much. Philip Palumbo. He's founder, CEO, and chief investment officer at Columbo Wealth Management. They've got roughly six hundred million dollars in assets under management. Phil joining us from Great Neck, New York.

All right, Gonna leave it there. Fun to talk names and some areas with you, Phil, Thank you so much. Philip Palumbo. He's founder, CEO, and chief investment officer at Columbo Wealth Management. They've got roughly six hundred million dollars in assets under management. Phil joining us from Great Neck, New York.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. I'll ai Little Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you hit your podcast. Listen live weight day afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also want us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. I'll ai Little Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you hit your podcast. Listen live weight day afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also want us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

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