You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

Yeah, just want to be your everything token?

Yeah, just want to be your everything token?

Actually do you?

Actually do you?

I don't know. Oh no, listen. We have a lot of thoughts about this. We've talked to a lot of guests about this. But the end of the crypto winter man it has been heralded by rising token prices and the long awaited approval of bitcoin exchange traded funds.

I don't know. Oh no, listen. We have a lot of thoughts about this. We've talked to a lot of guests about this. But the end of the crypto winter man it has been heralded by rising token prices and the long awaited approval of bitcoin exchange traded funds.

Yeah, okay, true, but a key segment of the digital asset universe has lagged behind despite previously being one of the sector's hottest corners. We're talking, of course, about non fungible tokens NFTs. They're based on blockchain and represent a unique ownership of assets like images or even physical objects. They saw global sales plummets sixty three percent to eight point seven billion dollars last year. That's accorded to data tracker Crypto Slam.

Yeah, okay, true, but a key segment of the digital asset universe has lagged behind despite previously being one of the sector's hottest corners. We're talking, of course, about non fungible tokens NFTs. They're based on blockchain and represent a unique ownership of assets like images or even physical objects. They saw global sales plummets sixty three percent to eight point seven billion dollars last year. That's accorded to data tracker Crypto Slam.

Remember with Chris Rouser for pursuits about like fashion NFT twenty twenty one. You go shopping in kind of a virtual universe and you buy like clue, like yeah, design or NFTs. You can't wear them.

Remember with Chris Rouser for pursuits about like fashion NFT twenty twenty one. You go shopping in kind of a virtual universe and you buy like clue, like yeah, design or NFTs. You can't wear them.

You spend a lot of money, second life type of thing.

You spend a lot of money, second life type of thing.

Yeah, I just know anyway.

Yeah, I just know anyway.

Where your gucci in the in the metaverse.

Where your gucci in the in the metaverse.

I think our guess are gonna get nervous because we're a bit skeptical anyway. Meanwhile, keep in mind the industry Bellweather Bitcoin has surged almost one hundred and sixty twenty twenty three. A little bit of perspective there for you.

I think our guess are gonna get nervous because we're a bit skeptical anyway. Meanwhile, keep in mind the industry Bellweather Bitcoin has surged almost one hundred and sixty twenty twenty three. A little bit of perspective there for you.

Okay, So I'm really curious what our next guests have to say about all of this, and we got some time with them, so looking forward to this conversation. Scott took Commoners is Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. Is also a research partner at A sixteen Z Crypto and recent Horowitz that is, and Steve Kaczinski has worked in communications at Progressive Insurance in Nestley, and together they are the authors of the new book The Everything Token, How NFTs and Web three will transform THEO we buy, sell, and create. Scott joins us from Cambridge, Massachusetts and Steve from Ohio. Scott, I want to start with you because this book came across my desk and it's out now, and I thought to myself, what a wild time to actually be publishing this book, because fts to me seem to have peaked a couple of years ago with all the FOMO and like post COVID kind of yolo trading. Well, how do you respond to that? That the book? Like, you know that that right now seems like a strange time for this book.

Okay, So I'm really curious what our next guests have to say about all of this, and we got some time with them, so looking forward to this conversation. Scott took Commoners is Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. Is also a research partner at A sixteen Z Crypto and recent Horowitz that is, and Steve Kaczinski has worked in communications at Progressive Insurance in Nestley, and together they are the authors of the new book The Everything Token, How NFTs and Web three will transform THEO we buy, sell, and create. Scott joins us from Cambridge, Massachusetts and Steve from Ohio. Scott, I want to start with you because this book came across my desk and it's out now, and I thought to myself, what a wild time to actually be publishing this book, because fts to me seem to have peaked a couple of years ago with all the FOMO and like post COVID kind of yolo trading. Well, how do you respond to that? That the book? Like, you know that that right now seems like a strange time for this book.

So, first of all, you know, I understand why you might feel that way, But in many senses, I actually think, you know, in the last year and a half and especially really in the last you know, eight, you know, six to nine months, we've seen far more exciting and more creative and I think more you know, sort of mass market and one might even say like sort of realistic, like you know, applications of n FTS. You know, it's really much more. As you said in the intro, these are a general purpose technology for defining ownership of both digital and potentially physical assets. And we've seen brands do all sorts of new experiments with them, some of them quite successfully, and really, you know, sort of part of the exercise of writing the book was we were trying to understand what are the sort of fundamental principles that define this new asset class for business? Right, how do you build a business around NFTs or integrate them into your existing brand, And what are those principles that survive, you know, sort of irrespective of the state of the market or whatever. That are really about, you know, sort of what is the value of n FTS for business and society?

So, first of all, you know, I understand why you might feel that way, But in many senses, I actually think, you know, in the last year and a half and especially really in the last you know, eight, you know, six to nine months, we've seen far more exciting and more creative and I think more you know, sort of mass market and one might even say like sort of realistic, like you know, applications of n FTS. You know, it's really much more. As you said in the intro, these are a general purpose technology for defining ownership of both digital and potentially physical assets. And we've seen brands do all sorts of new experiments with them, some of them quite successfully, and really, you know, sort of part of the exercise of writing the book was we were trying to understand what are the sort of fundamental principles that define this new asset class for business? Right, how do you build a business around NFTs or integrate them into your existing brand, And what are those principles that survive, you know, sort of irrespective of the state of the market or whatever. That are really about, you know, sort of what is the value of n FTS for business and society?

So what is the value of NFTs for businesses in society? And Scott, let's stay with you for one more moment, sure.

So what is the value of NFTs for businesses in society? And Scott, let's stay with you for one more moment, sure.

Of course.

Of course.

So first of all, as I said, it's a general purpose technology. Some uses are simply for improving the functioning of markets that are have already been very complicated to manage. So if you think about like digital tickets, right, every time you buy a digital ticket, you get like a QR code in your email. And if you want to buy one in the secondary market, right, you're trying to get to that like sold out Hamilton show or something of the sort, you have to be like really concerned that the person who's reselling the ticket to you might have sold it to fifteen other people. Right, It's just a QR code. They can forward the same email to a bunch of people at once. And business has spent a lot of time and energy, like building infrastructure to try and make those transactions safe NFTs are just a strictly better technology for this problem.

So first of all, as I said, it's a general purpose technology. Some uses are simply for improving the functioning of markets that are have already been very complicated to manage. So if you think about like digital tickets, right, every time you buy a digital ticket, you get like a QR code in your email. And if you want to buy one in the secondary market, right, you're trying to get to that like sold out Hamilton show or something of the sort, you have to be like really concerned that the person who's reselling the ticket to you might have sold it to fifteen other people. Right, It's just a QR code. They can forward the same email to a bunch of people at once. And business has spent a lot of time and energy, like building infrastructure to try and make those transactions safe NFTs are just a strictly better technology for this problem.

Right.

Right.

They're a unique digital asset, and the second it's transferred to one person, they know that they've received it and no one else has it. You know, you can prove the owner of it. Similarly, we're seeing a variety of you know, sort of new types of identity records. So think about like, you know, have you know my friends in Bloomberg Opinion. I've recently been writing lots of articles about these concerns around AI and deep fakes. You know, NFTs are cross platform identity records that you can use to prove you are who you say you are on many different platforms, like independent of the platform architecture, and take with you as you move across the Internet. And that sort of technology is becoming all the more important. And then last and sort of like you know, sort of what Steve and I write about is one of the sort of the biggest category. There are these brands. There's branded utility that can be built on top of NFTs. So you start with NFTs as an ownership record, you build utility on top of them, use that to drive a new form of customer identity and from their form customer community that drives the brand forward. And this is something brands have been trying to do for a very long time, right, They've always wanted to extend the relationship with the consumer into the product experience, but it's been very hard to do before NFTs.

They're a unique digital asset, and the second it's transferred to one person, they know that they've received it and no one else has it. You know, you can prove the owner of it. Similarly, we're seeing a variety of you know, sort of new types of identity records. So think about like, you know, have you know my friends in Bloomberg Opinion. I've recently been writing lots of articles about these concerns around AI and deep fakes. You know, NFTs are cross platform identity records that you can use to prove you are who you say you are on many different platforms, like independent of the platform architecture, and take with you as you move across the Internet. And that sort of technology is becoming all the more important. And then last and sort of like you know, sort of what Steve and I write about is one of the sort of the biggest category. There are these brands. There's branded utility that can be built on top of NFTs. So you start with NFTs as an ownership record, you build utility on top of them, use that to drive a new form of customer identity and from their form customer community that drives the brand forward. And this is something brands have been trying to do for a very long time, right, They've always wanted to extend the relationship with the consumer into the product experience, but it's been very hard to do before NFTs.

And Scott, we should know you're a former columnists for Bloomberg Opinion, so you certainly do have a lot of friends over it at Bloomberg Opinion. Hey, I want to bring in Steve Kaczinski here, who joins us from Ohio this afternoon. For people who are watching on YouTube or watching on Bloomberg Originals right now, Steve, they can tell but just by seeing your background you are a fan of NFS. I see an eight faest picture in the background. Is that a real board eight back there? I can't tell because I don't have the certificate. Is that a real board aid back there?

And Scott, we should know you're a former columnists for Bloomberg Opinion, so you certainly do have a lot of friends over it at Bloomberg Opinion. Hey, I want to bring in Steve Kaczinski here, who joins us from Ohio this afternoon. For people who are watching on YouTube or watching on Bloomberg Originals right now, Steve, they can tell but just by seeing your background you are a fan of NFS. I see an eight faest picture in the background. Is that a real board eight back there? I can't tell because I don't have the certificate. Is that a real board aid back there?

It is? It is a picture of a real board eight and I do have the digital certificate to approve it. And it's funny because, like what you all talk about is actually exactly the reason we wrote this book is. I think a lot of people saw astronomical sales they thought, well, this is like a weird sort of life, you know, bad industry, But people forget that's how a lot of industry starts in the tech world, right. I mean, there are records of the Internet being a patis bad, or video games being a patic bad, or cell phone not having usig what it's hused. But of course the way the technology improves and its built upon changes that. And I can say, as somebody who was you know, in the mid nineties in middle schools decoding websites between the HTML like pre Google and all that, this is the most excited I've been about a technology because of the general perfect youth, particularly as it releas in my background in brand building, and you know, I work with Starbucks on their beta program, Starbucks Odyssey, and they use it as a great example that has nothing to do with the over financialization of the space.

It is? It is a picture of a real board eight and I do have the digital certificate to approve it. And it's funny because, like what you all talk about is actually exactly the reason we wrote this book is. I think a lot of people saw astronomical sales they thought, well, this is like a weird sort of life, you know, bad industry, But people forget that's how a lot of industry starts in the tech world, right. I mean, there are records of the Internet being a patis bad, or video games being a patic bad, or cell phone not having usig what it's hused. But of course the way the technology improves and its built upon changes that. And I can say, as somebody who was you know, in the mid nineties in middle schools decoding websites between the HTML like pre Google and all that, this is the most excited I've been about a technology because of the general perfect youth, particularly as it releas in my background in brand building, and you know, I work with Starbucks on their beta program, Starbucks Odyssey, and they use it as a great example that has nothing to do with the over financialization of the space.

So does this mean it's interesting? We had a conversation with an individual over at Adobe and whereas people start to use generative AI to include images NFT in terms of kind of protecting the license of a logo, is there something Steve that that makes a business case for it.

So does this mean it's interesting? We had a conversation with an individual over at Adobe and whereas people start to use generative AI to include images NFT in terms of kind of protecting the license of a logo, is there something Steve that that makes a business case for it.

I mean, they could, but actually, to be honest, I think that a business case like that is narrow compared to the wide spectrum of uses and the ways they would do it. I would say a business would more use it to prove ownership of a asset that a customer owns, to turn that customer from maybe a sort of individual who supports the business into a super fan in various ways, which again we can discuss what.

I mean, they could, but actually, to be honest, I think that a business case like that is narrow compared to the wide spectrum of uses and the ways they would do it. I would say a business would more use it to prove ownership of a asset that a customer owns, to turn that customer from maybe a sort of individual who supports the business into a super fan in various ways, which again we can discuss what.

The like get, but I get it for art, like right that you get? That makes sense to me to have kind of an NFT associated with a piece of art, like a certificate of authenticity, right, yeah, exactly, A d down a home makes sense to me.

The like get, but I get it for art, like right that you get? That makes sense to me to have kind of an NFT associated with a piece of art, like a certificate of authenticity, right, yeah, exactly, A d down a home makes sense to me.

Okay, what about for you know, and thanks to Crypto editor Mike Reagan, who I spoke to ahead of this interview, Yeah, he made the point to me that, Okay, imagine you know, you buy a concert ticket and and you know we have about a minute left, Scott, so come back on in here. What about like the use of a concert ticket for example, that uh, would would you know, give you access beyond just actually seeing the show? We have a minute and then we're gonna come back and do more.

Okay, what about for you know, and thanks to Crypto editor Mike Reagan, who I spoke to ahead of this interview, Yeah, he made the point to me that, Okay, imagine you know, you buy a concert ticket and and you know we have about a minute left, Scott, so come back on in here. What about like the use of a concert ticket for example, that uh, would would you know, give you access beyond just actually seeing the show? We have a minute and then we're gonna come back and do more.

With your backstage access?

With your backstage access?

Yeah, yeah, what do you think of that?

Yeah, yeah, what do you think of that?

Scott?

Scott?

Exactly? No, one.

Exactly? No, one.

And what's cool about them is, you know, both the creator, the artist whomever can provide that sort of value, and also third parties can again because these things are you know, it's it's more like having a physical ticket than like having a QR code that just anyone could replicate. You know, you can prove that you are the owner of the asset. And so if a local restaurant wants to, you know, provide you with a coupon, you know, for a you know, for a drink or a dessert after the show, you know, you can do that too, and they can do it without having the interface with the uh, you know, with the original creator. And so both the artist can give you a backstage tour and then a local restaurant can give everyone who had a certain tier of ticket a drink. And like, all of this can happen around a single asset, you know, and NFTs are particularly powerful for this because of the third party component as well.

And what's cool about them is, you know, both the creator, the artist whomever can provide that sort of value, and also third parties can again because these things are you know, it's it's more like having a physical ticket than like having a QR code that just anyone could replicate. You know, you can prove that you are the owner of the asset. And so if a local restaurant wants to, you know, provide you with a coupon, you know, for a you know, for a drink or a dessert after the show, you know, you can do that too, and they can do it without having the interface with the uh, you know, with the original creator. And so both the artist can give you a backstage tour and then a local restaurant can give everyone who had a certain tier of ticket a drink. And like, all of this can happen around a single asset, you know, and NFTs are particularly powerful for this because of the third party component as well.

All right, interesting stuff, We're going to continue. We have lots more to come. Scott do Commoners is going to stay with us professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School, a research partner at sixteen Z Crypto, and of course, a former Bloomberg opinion columnist.

All right, interesting stuff, We're going to continue. We have lots more to come. Scott do Commoners is going to stay with us professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School, a research partner at sixteen Z Crypto, and of course, a former Bloomberg opinion columnist.

Also Steve Kazinski, who is the co author, along with Scott, of The Everything Token, How NFTs and Web three will transform the way we buy, sell and create.

Also Steve Kazinski, who is the co author, along with Scott, of The Everything Token, How NFTs and Web three will transform the way we buy, sell and create.

I want to get back to her, guest, Scott do Commoner's professor Business Administration, former Bloomberg opinion columnist. He's at Harvard Business School, a research partner at sixteen A sixteen.

I want to get back to her, guest, Scott do Commoner's professor Business Administration, former Bloomberg opinion columnist. He's at Harvard Business School, a research partner at sixteen A sixteen.

Z A sixteen Z and dres and Horowitz.

Z A sixteen Z and dres and Horowitz.

Yeah, and Steve Kazinski also with us. He's worked in communications at Progressive Insurance and Nessley. Together they are the authors of a new book, The Everything Token, How NFTs and Web three will transform the way we buy, sell and create. Scott's out there in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Steve is joining us from Ohio. I feel like we've been talking though about this happening for years now. Having said that, Scott, let me kick it back to you for a moment, so to quote kind of a Beatles song. I woke up, got out of bed, tell me how NFTs could impact me, Carol.

Yeah, and Steve Kazinski also with us. He's worked in communications at Progressive Insurance and Nessley. Together they are the authors of a new book, The Everything Token, How NFTs and Web three will transform the way we buy, sell and create. Scott's out there in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Steve is joining us from Ohio. I feel like we've been talking though about this happening for years now. Having said that, Scott, let me kick it back to you for a moment, so to quote kind of a Beatles song. I woke up, got out of bed, tell me how NFTs could impact me, Carol.

Masser, Okay, like from from the morning in the month you get up, Yeah, you probably okay, so you maybe you're like getting some coffee, So you get some coffee from Starbucks. And Starbucks's new Odyssey reward program is you know, sort of taking charge or taking a track of what you've consumed and discover you've finished a journey. You get your new coffee stamps. That's one thing. And maybe you chose your coffee because Odyssey as part of the program also directly incentivized you to go and learn some things about the different coffee varieties they have, and you become a more educated consumer of Starbucks. You read the newspaper too, right, so you're probably logging into Bloomberg Opinion to read the morning opinion reports or their opinion articles. But then also you're gonna like go cross platform and maybe you have an NFT for a subscription that lets you into three different newspapers at the same time, or all the news associated with your local sports team. You know, it's just each page you log in. Yeah, you connect your walt your crypto wallet, It reads the NFT, it shows you the sports news. Well, you see if your Starbucks coffee and earn rewards.

Masser, Okay, like from from the morning in the month you get up, Yeah, you probably okay, so you maybe you're like getting some coffee, So you get some coffee from Starbucks. And Starbucks's new Odyssey reward program is you know, sort of taking charge or taking a track of what you've consumed and discover you've finished a journey. You get your new coffee stamps. That's one thing. And maybe you chose your coffee because Odyssey as part of the program also directly incentivized you to go and learn some things about the different coffee varieties they have, and you become a more educated consumer of Starbucks. You read the newspaper too, right, so you're probably logging into Bloomberg Opinion to read the morning opinion reports or their opinion articles. But then also you're gonna like go cross platform and maybe you have an NFT for a subscription that lets you into three different newspapers at the same time, or all the news associated with your local sports team. You know, it's just each page you log in. Yeah, you connect your walt your crypto wallet, It reads the NFT, it shows you the sports news. Well, you see if your Starbucks coffee and earn rewards.

Okay, are you satisfied, Carol, You're getting there. Okay, she's a skeptic, but she's getting less skeptical. Hey, each of us, I gotta tell you, each of us were struck a couple of weeks ago when we heard Blackrocks Larry Fink talk about tokenization with our own David West and I want to play a clip of that. Check out what he had to say.

Okay, are you satisfied, Carol, You're getting there. Okay, she's a skeptic, but she's getting less skeptical. Hey, each of us, I gotta tell you, each of us were struck a couple of weeks ago when we heard Blackrocks Larry Fink talk about tokenization with our own David West and I want to play a clip of that. Check out what he had to say.

We believe the next step going forward will be the tokenization of financial assets, and that means every stock, every bond will have its own basically q SIP. It'll be on one general ledger. Every investor, you and I will have our own number, our own identification. We could rid ourselves of all issues around illicit activities around bonds and stocks and digital by having a a tokenization. But the most importantly thing, we can customize strategy through tokenization that is fits every individual.

We believe the next step going forward will be the tokenization of financial assets, and that means every stock, every bond will have its own basically q SIP. It'll be on one general ledger. Every investor, you and I will have our own number, our own identification. We could rid ourselves of all issues around illicit activities around bonds and stocks and digital by having a a tokenization. But the most importantly thing, we can customize strategy through tokenization that is fits every individual.

Tokenization that fits every individual. That once again was Black Rocks Larry fing talking tokenization with their own David weston just a couple of weeks ago. Steve, I want to bring you in here and get your reaction to that, because we do hear a lot about tokenization of financial traditional financial ashsets, potentially disrupting a lot of middleman and intermediate intermediary work that has done on Wall Street. But take us through what exactly that would mean for the financial industry.

Tokenization that fits every individual. That once again was Black Rocks Larry fing talking tokenization with their own David weston just a couple of weeks ago. Steve, I want to bring you in here and get your reaction to that, because we do hear a lot about tokenization of financial traditional financial ashsets, potentially disrupting a lot of middleman and intermediate intermediary work that has done on Wall Street. But take us through what exactly that would mean for the financial industry.

Yeah, I mean for the financial industry. What that means is that it sort of does exactly as you said, remove those middlemen and make for a more clear transaction, meaning that it is a very clear ownership going from one to the other tract on a ledger. This applies to the entire financial industry. This can apply to real world assets that you're talking about, where you physically pin a digital asset to something to prove digital ownership, which takes away a lot of potential issues you have coming from one media intermediary to the other. It makes it a much more clean transaction. As again, the blockchain is just a cleaner technology that removes a lot of friction as you start to tokenize not just sort of the financial assets, but any physical asset you own in order to sort of build upon it.

Yeah, I mean for the financial industry. What that means is that it sort of does exactly as you said, remove those middlemen and make for a more clear transaction, meaning that it is a very clear ownership going from one to the other tract on a ledger. This applies to the entire financial industry. This can apply to real world assets that you're talking about, where you physically pin a digital asset to something to prove digital ownership, which takes away a lot of potential issues you have coming from one media intermediary to the other. It makes it a much more clean transaction. As again, the blockchain is just a cleaner technology that removes a lot of friction as you start to tokenize not just sort of the financial assets, but any physical asset you own in order to sort of build upon it.

Steve, is this the biggest opportunity for Web three for the blockchain?

Steve, is this the biggest opportunity for Web three for the blockchain?

I mean it depends on sort of who you ask and how you ask it, right, Because there is the really poetic use of the blockchain where when somebody is fleeing a company of unrest and they have a blockchain based credential, like say a teaching degree, Well, when they go to a new country, if they have to flee quickly, their money digitally can go with them, and their sort of degrees and credentials can then go with them in a provable way, meaning that they don't sort of have to start over when they get there. So that to me is always the sort of end goal right there. And then from a financial perspective, I just think the actual way companies are going to be able to create entire new sectors within their companies is actually the biggest financial aspect and opportunity because it means that a company is going to be able to create entirely new revenue streams while creating aligned incentive structures with their customers all at once. It's an interesting system where everybody can win, both the consumers and the brand. The brand can build value back in the NFTs. The NFTs can then raise and value and so the customers can then decide where they want to purchase or utilize them all.

I mean it depends on sort of who you ask and how you ask it, right, Because there is the really poetic use of the blockchain where when somebody is fleeing a company of unrest and they have a blockchain based credential, like say a teaching degree, Well, when they go to a new country, if they have to flee quickly, their money digitally can go with them, and their sort of degrees and credentials can then go with them in a provable way, meaning that they don't sort of have to start over when they get there. So that to me is always the sort of end goal right there. And then from a financial perspective, I just think the actual way companies are going to be able to create entire new sectors within their companies is actually the biggest financial aspect and opportunity because it means that a company is going to be able to create entirely new revenue streams while creating aligned incentive structures with their customers all at once. It's an interesting system where everybody can win, both the consumers and the brand. The brand can build value back in the NFTs. The NFTs can then raise and value and so the customers can then decide where they want to purchase or utilize them all.

Right. Well, with anything that's kind of new, there is the question of oversight and regulation, and this is something we've been trying to figure out. You know, the whole idea of digital you know, currencies, is this idea that it's outside the traditional network. So you guys write in the book. At the same time, as with any novel asset class, NFTs raise questions about regulation. So, you know, Scott, come on back in here. Who who will ultimately have oversight of this because we're going to need something yes.

Right. Well, with anything that's kind of new, there is the question of oversight and regulation, and this is something we've been trying to figure out. You know, the whole idea of digital you know, currencies, is this idea that it's outside the traditional network. So you guys write in the book. At the same time, as with any novel asset class, NFTs raise questions about regulation. So, you know, Scott, come on back in here. Who who will ultimately have oversight of this because we're going to need something yes.

Yeah, and again. And I don't have a clear answer or prescription on this. But it's very complicated of course, because you know, these digital assets can have many different functionalities, and their functionalities can evolve over time potentially, right, and we talk in the you know, we're talking the book of something that starts as a collectible brand asset and can potentially take on other functionalities. Right, You get a ticket and then gradually like it becomes the anchor of a rewards program or something of the sort. I think it's very important to think through, you know, sort of how those different assets like interact across different categories and so forth. And it makes it a really challenging problem. But unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.

Yeah, and again. And I don't have a clear answer or prescription on this. But it's very complicated of course, because you know, these digital assets can have many different functionalities, and their functionalities can evolve over time potentially, right, and we talk in the you know, we're talking the book of something that starts as a collectible brand asset and can potentially take on other functionalities. Right, You get a ticket and then gradually like it becomes the anchor of a rewards program or something of the sort. I think it's very important to think through, you know, sort of how those different assets like interact across different categories and so forth. And it makes it a really challenging problem. But unfortunately I don't have any easy answers.

Hey, uh, Scott, we have like thirty we have like a minute left, and I just want to talk about the metaverse real quick, because a couple of years ago there was a lot of hype around it. I mean, look at Facebook's name change to meta how NFTs would play an important role. But a lot of that has seemed to died out and many big tech companies are chasing the shiny new object of AI. Was the potential of the metaverse overhyped?

Hey, uh, Scott, we have like thirty we have like a minute left, and I just want to talk about the metaverse real quick, because a couple of years ago there was a lot of hype around it. I mean, look at Facebook's name change to meta how NFTs would play an important role. But a lot of that has seemed to died out and many big tech companies are chasing the shiny new object of AI. Was the potential of the metaverse overhyped?

So, you know, Steve and I talk about this in the book. We take a very expansive concept of the metaverse. We think the three D world thing is not exactly the right way to think about it. The metaverse is all the digital spaces we interact in. Like we're in a metaverse space right now, I'm calling in over zoom talking with you. And what NF Tease enable you to do is to bring your digital asset from place to place right like that. That what is your NFT day. It's like you have a single master account. That is what holds your subscriptions, to hold your coffee of rewards. It's all your different social media identities, lets you share your reputation across them. And so in that sense, we're having more and more metaverse interactions as we spend more and more digital time, especially since the start of the pandemic, and NFTs are a key enabler of that. And as you say, AI is going to be flying into this as a component. But the more AI starts to distort and like confuse those spaces, the more important it is for people to be able to build core and trust it and cross platform digital identities for themselves.

So, you know, Steve and I talk about this in the book. We take a very expansive concept of the metaverse. We think the three D world thing is not exactly the right way to think about it. The metaverse is all the digital spaces we interact in. Like we're in a metaverse space right now, I'm calling in over zoom talking with you. And what NF Tease enable you to do is to bring your digital asset from place to place right like that. That what is your NFT day. It's like you have a single master account. That is what holds your subscriptions, to hold your coffee of rewards. It's all your different social media identities, lets you share your reputation across them. And so in that sense, we're having more and more metaverse interactions as we spend more and more digital time, especially since the start of the pandemic, and NFTs are a key enabler of that. And as you say, AI is going to be flying into this as a component. But the more AI starts to distort and like confuse those spaces, the more important it is for people to be able to build core and trust it and cross platform digital identities for themselves.

All Right, we're gonna have to leave it there, and hopefully we can continue this conversation in the future because it.

All Right, we're gonna have to leave it there, and hopefully we can continue this conversation in the future because it.

Is is got to come back.

Is is got to come back.

We have a lot of questions, but it's really fascinating, Scott, do commoners. Steve Kazinski. There a new book, The Everything Token, How NFTs and web free will transform the way we buy, sell and create. Guys, thank you so much. This is Bloomberg

We have a lot of questions, but it's really fascinating, Scott, do commoners. Steve Kazinski. There a new book, The Everything Token, How NFTs and web free will transform the way we buy, sell and create. Guys, thank you so much. This is Bloomberg