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You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

Well, if you were to spend an entire Saturday binging old episodes of your favorite TV show while snacking on popcorn, Carol, I have done it, what would the show be?

Well, if you were to spend an entire Saturday binging old episodes of your favorite TV show while snacking on popcorn, Carol, I have done it, what would the show be?

Don't judge me. I'm I can't tell you.

Don't judge me. I'm I can't tell you.

All right, maybe throw a nap in there too.

All right, maybe throw a nap in there too.

Throw a nap in there.

Throw a nap in there.

Two there, remember the.

Two there, remember the.

Band got there? That's a good one. You were like, Finally, would you call it one of the most productive days of your life?

Band got there? That's a good one. You were like, Finally, would you call it one of the most productive days of your life?

I don't know if it was productive, but I really loved it?

I don't know if it was productive, but I really loved it?

Okay, Well, Laura may Martin did just that, and yes, she writes in her new book that watching old episodes of Heartland, which I had to google I didn't know that was a show for ten hours, was indeed one of the most productive days of her life. She should know what's productive, because she's the executive productivity advisor at Google, also the author of the new book Uptime, A Practical Guide to Personal Productivity and well Being. She joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. So, Laura, please tell us us how in the world is binging something on Netflix or a streaming service all day productive.

Okay, Well, Laura may Martin did just that, and yes, she writes in her new book that watching old episodes of Heartland, which I had to google I didn't know that was a show for ten hours, was indeed one of the most productive days of her life. She should know what's productive, because she's the executive productivity advisor at Google, also the author of the new book Uptime, A Practical Guide to Personal Productivity and well Being. She joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. So, Laura, please tell us us how in the world is binging something on Netflix or a streaming service all day productive.

I think the old definition of productivity is how much are you churning out? How much are you checking off your list? But when you think about it in a holistic sense, if your intention was to relax and spend a day doing something you love, and you set the time aside to do that and you execute it on it, well, then I would argue that.

I think the old definition of productivity is how much are you churning out? How much are you checking off your list? But when you think about it in a holistic sense, if your intention was to relax and spend a day doing something you love, and you set the time aside to do that and you execute it on it, well, then I would argue that.

That was a productive day in the long term.

That was a productive day in the long term.

Interesting. I love this. I mean, take a step back and tell us, because you carved out a niche for yourself, certainly over at Google in terms of productivity, tell us about how that came to be and the kind of things you were doing for workers there at the company and kind of taking something like were you're telling, you know, employees, go home, go binge, come back in twenty four hours, like help us through.

Interesting. I love this. I mean, take a step back and tell us, because you carved out a niche for yourself, certainly over at Google in terms of productivity, tell us about how that came to be and the kind of things you were doing for workers there at the company and kind of taking something like were you're telling, you know, employees, go home, go binge, come back in twenty four hours, like help us through.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think when I started, I was in sales, and you know, this job didn't exist, and I was really just managing my own email, my own time, my own energy in a way that was making me productive. And Google has a great program where you can teach other Googlers anything, and so I started teaching an email training about how to use your inbox like a dashboard and manage all of your tasks. And that eventually led to me coaching people one on one and working with executives and eventually starting productivity at Google. So it was something that people were already doing and needed more organization around, and that's what led to it.

So I think when I started, I was in sales, and you know, this job didn't exist, and I was really just managing my own email, my own time, my own energy in a way that was making me productive. And Google has a great program where you can teach other Googlers anything, and so I started teaching an email training about how to use your inbox like a dashboard and manage all of your tasks. And that eventually led to me coaching people one on one and working with executives and eventually starting productivity at Google. So it was something that people were already doing and needed more organization around, and that's what led to it.

Okay, so let's talk about some of like some of those executives, because arguably the people who are creating, you know, among the most valuable companies in the world.

Okay, so let's talk about some of like some of those executives, because arguably the people who are creating, you know, among the most valuable companies in the world.

Like they're productive.

Like they're productive.

Yes, look what they did, Yes, you know, they took a project at Stanford and made it into an over trillion dollar company.

Yes, look what they did, Yes, you know, they took a project at Stanford and made it into an over trillion dollar company.

What were they doing wrong? Though?

What were they doing wrong? Though?

I think so a lot of times when I'm working with an executive, it's at maybe a turning point. So it's just having that objective lens to help look at Oh, you're taking on a new team, or now you're working globally, or you have a different role than before, and so this is a good time to take a look at priorities and responsibilities and how you're thinking about your time. So many times I'm there just to kind of ask questions and prompt and create systems between a chief of staff and an assistant and how everyone works together. But the great thing is, like you said, many all of them are already productive in a lot of ways. So I'm learning from each of those sessions and then spreading some of those across the company.

I think so a lot of times when I'm working with an executive, it's at maybe a turning point. So it's just having that objective lens to help look at Oh, you're taking on a new team, or now you're working globally, or you have a different role than before, and so this is a good time to take a look at priorities and responsibilities and how you're thinking about your time. So many times I'm there just to kind of ask questions and prompt and create systems between a chief of staff and an assistant and how everyone works together. But the great thing is, like you said, many all of them are already productive in a lot of ways. So I'm learning from each of those sessions and then spreading some of those across the company.

There's being productive kind of with your work life, there's being productive with your personal life. We have Michael a listener writing in wondering if people would improve productivity by scheduling times for their personal goals as well. So how did you factor in that side of it.

There's being productive kind of with your work life, there's being productive with your personal life. We have Michael a listener writing in wondering if people would improve productivity by scheduling times for their personal goals as well. So how did you factor in that side of it.

I actually don't recommend people come up with personal girls and work goals because there's only one you. There's only one pie of times.

I actually don't recommend people come up with personal girls and work goals because there's only one you. There's only one pie of times.

So depressive.

So depressive.

No, it's good because it helps you think about I'm one holistic person with one set of time and things I can focus on. So if I have a personal goal, I have to make room for that at work. If I'm taking on more at work, I need to make room for that in my personal life.

No, it's good because it helps you think about I'm one holistic person with one set of time and things I can focus on. So if I have a personal goal, I have to make room for that at work. If I'm taking on more at work, I need to make room for that in my personal life.

And so you know, it's a trade off mindset.

And so you know, it's a trade off mindset.

Every decision impacts everything in your world.

Every decision impacts everything in your world.

Exactly, and saying yes anything is saying no to something else. Implicitly, So you have to figure out what that is at all times, and so you know when those personal changes come up, if you're moving your family across the country, something at work might need to take it back to.

Exactly, and saying yes anything is saying no to something else. Implicitly, So you have to figure out what that is at all times, and so you know when those personal changes come up, if you're moving your family across the country, something at work might need to take it back to.

The heads of the company, Like could we talk to you and say, hey, we need some help.

The heads of the company, Like could we talk to you and say, hey, we need some help.

With something I do training for everyone at the company, So all the way down to new employees, two executives.

With something I do training for everyone at the company, So all the way down to new employees, two executives.

What's your advice? Because Tim, you and I talk about this a lot. You have a young family, my daughter's elder at this point. But I mean it does feel like we live you know, we have full jobs to say the least. Yeah, we commute, You're in New York City. Like there's just a lot that comes at you. I mean, how do you kind of work with somebody and how do you help them kind of be more productive on in all aspects of their life.

What's your advice? Because Tim, you and I talk about this a lot. You have a young family, my daughter's elder at this point. But I mean it does feel like we live you know, we have full jobs to say the least. Yeah, we commute, You're in New York City. Like there's just a lot that comes at you. I mean, how do you kind of work with somebody and how do you help them kind of be more productive on in all aspects of their life.

A lot of times the first question I ask is if you had an extra hour of your day, what would you do with it?

A lot of times the first question I ask is if you had an extra hour of your day, what would you do with it?

And what that gives me? That information of what I call kind of the cusp.

And what that gives me? That information of what I call kind of the cusp.

You know what you want to be doing, but you're not quite getting to and so it's usually something like I wish I could spend more time with my family, or I work on this bigger picture project, or I've really been wanting to learn how to sew.

You know what you want to be doing, but you're not quite getting to and so it's usually something like I wish I could spend more time with my family, or I work on this bigger picture project, or I've really been wanting to learn how to sew.

Well, that's my question.

Well, that's my question.

Do people who you asked that question to ever say they want to spend more time working.

Do people who you asked that question to ever say they want to spend more time working.

Sometimes it's I have a team and I want to f on more big picture, like you going to report back to my.

Sometimes it's I have a team and I want to f on more big picture, like you going to report back to my.

Boss, sleep, spend more time with family.

Boss, sleep, spend more time with family.

You know, it can be just what they've been meaning to get to, and it usually just means what they're just out of reach.

You know, it can be just what they've been meaning to get to, and it usually just means what they're just out of reach.

Well, it's funny.

Well, it's funny.

You know, there's a book I read of Steve Schwartz been a Blackstone but and a colleague of ours, Jason Kelly, we talked about and there's a thing in him and what he said is.

You know, there's a book I read of Steve Schwartz been a Blackstone but and a colleague of ours, Jason Kelly, we talked about and there's a thing in him and what he said is.

Like what it takes is the book?

Like what it takes is the book?

What what it takes?

What what it takes?

Thank you?

Thank you?

But he was like, think big that don't kind of get caught up in the tedious small things. If there's something kind of similar but on a bigger scale that's going to have a bigger impact, don't waste your time on that little stuff.

But he was like, think big that don't kind of get caught up in the tedious small things. If there's something kind of similar but on a bigger scale that's going to have a bigger impact, don't waste your time on that little stuff.

Go big.

Go big.

And I wonder if you kind of incorporate that thinking into how you be more productive.

And I wonder if you kind of incorporate that thinking into how you be more productive.

Yeah, I think a lot of times people get in the weeds again of like, if I'm a salesperson.

Yeah, I think a lot of times people get in the weeds again of like, if I'm a salesperson.

How do I figure out how to make more calls per day?

How do I figure out how to make more calls per day?

But the reason I recommend even incorporating downtime into your schedule is because that's when you come up with those big picture ideas. I just talked to someone yesterday who said, my boss should pay me for my hour run in the morning because that's when I contribut most to work. And so while we feel like it's all about how much we're doing little, it has to be also how are we thinking big?

But the reason I recommend even incorporating downtime into your schedule is because that's when you come up with those big picture ideas. I just talked to someone yesterday who said, my boss should pay me for my hour run in the morning because that's when I contribut most to work. And so while we feel like it's all about how much we're doing little, it has to be also how are we thinking big?

I like that I think a lot of that has I don't know if you've noticed this, but Laura, there's been this shift since the pandemic.

I like that I think a lot of that has I don't know if you've noticed this, but Laura, there's been this shift since the pandemic.

I feel like that it's it's much less.

I feel like that it's it's much less.

So she hasn't noticed it.

So she hasn't noticed it.

But but you don't know what I'm gonna say. Fine, I thought, I know, you know it's not productive. You know it's not productive for me. Is I just think I know?

But but you don't know what I'm gonna say. Fine, I thought, I know, you know it's not productive. You know it's not productive for me. Is I just think I know?

I'm so okay, go ahead, gohead.

I'm so okay, go ahead, gohead.

Is this idea of like, productivity doesn't necessarily mean buttson seats at the office, right, So it's the idea of, actually, if you create a good product, does it matter if you're actually working from you know, three to five PM, or like you need to go pick.

Is this idea of like, productivity doesn't necessarily mean buttson seats at the office, right, So it's the idea of, actually, if you create a good product, does it matter if you're actually working from you know, three to five PM, or like you need to go pick.

Up your kid.

Up your kid.

Yeah, and that's why I tell managers that January to March should be the new nine to five. You need to be thinking about macro goals and how people are reaching them because some people, yeah, people in the pandemic realize that they liked waking up super early, working for a bit, then having a workout, or waking up late and working into the night. And that's such a big part of productivity as.

Yeah, and that's why I tell managers that January to March should be the new nine to five. You need to be thinking about macro goals and how people are reaching them because some people, yeah, people in the pandemic realize that they liked waking up super early, working for a bit, then having a workout, or waking up late and working into the night. And that's such a big part of productivity as.

Your own natural rhythms.

Your own natural rhythms.

Not all time slots are created equal, and so if you figure out when you work the best, you should be able to honor that as much as possible versus the traditional schedule.

Not all time slots are created equal, and so if you figure out when you work the best, you should be able to honor that as much as possible versus the traditional schedule.

Well, you know you guys in the tech world, and we had folks that we talked to you during the pandemic and said, listen, we've been working from home and flexible and hybrid and all this stuff for years. We have a story that's on the Bloomberg most read has to do with Steve Cohen, big hedge fund investor know well, but he our audience knows him well, saying that he thinks the four day work week is coming. How do you guys say, if an employee says to you, listen, I'd be much more productive if I work three or four days, just jam it all in. How do you approach something like that.

Well, you know you guys in the tech world, and we had folks that we talked to you during the pandemic and said, listen, we've been working from home and flexible and hybrid and all this stuff for years. We have a story that's on the Bloomberg most read has to do with Steve Cohen, big hedge fund investor know well, but he our audience knows him well, saying that he thinks the four day work week is coming. How do you guys say, if an employee says to you, listen, I'd be much more productive if I work three or four days, just jam it all in. How do you approach something like that.

I can't speak for how Google as a whole is thinking of that, but I think that when you're honoring flexibility in general, that should be something that you're thinking about. If somebody says, again, my goals are from January to March. Can I accomplish those in four days?

I can't speak for how Google as a whole is thinking of that, but I think that when you're honoring flexibility in general, that should be something that you're thinking about. If somebody says, again, my goals are from January to March. Can I accomplish those in four days?

And is that something that you know?

And is that something that you know?

Unless it's interfering with your ability to meet on Fridays or something like that that affects collaboration, then it should be considered, because you know, it's not about the hours.

Unless it's interfering with your ability to meet on Fridays or something like that that affects collaboration, then it should be considered, because you know, it's not about the hours.

Did you see a shift at Google in your years there? You know, there's this whole idea early on with Google where I don't even know if they still have this around twenty percent time where you can just dedicate a fifth of your time to whatever project you want to do.

Did you see a shift at Google in your years there? You know, there's this whole idea early on with Google where I don't even know if they still have this around twenty percent time where you can just dedicate a fifth of your time to whatever project you want to do.

Have have they pulled back on that a bit?

Have have they pulled back on that a bit?

This program that I created was my twenty percent project. So it's really about.

This program that I created was my twenty percent project. So it's really about.

Finding your passion and your need and merging that with the need of someone in the company. So clearly here there was a need for an organized, you know, version of.

Finding your passion and your need and merging that with the need of someone in the company. So clearly here there was a need for an organized, you know, version of.

Productivity at Google. And that's what I spent my time on.

Productivity at Google. And that's what I spent my time on.

There's one thing in the book, and it says one component of peak p Yeah, one component of peak productivity is having a good inventory of everything you're not doing yet.

There's one thing in the book, and it says one component of peak p Yeah, one component of peak productivity is having a good inventory of everything you're not doing yet.

What does that mean?

What does that mean?

That is equally as important as everything you are doing?

That is equally as important as everything you are doing?

So in other words, like a to do list, to do list, but what happens is people make When I've studied to do lists and how people usually.

So in other words, like a to do list, to do list, but what happens is people make When I've studied to do lists and how people usually.

Did, I make them all the time to say, frustrate.

Did, I make them all the time to say, frustrate.

That, well, exactly because you probably have something that's to doe by five pm. And then you're also like, I should do this before the summer, and then you have just a list that's kind of merging all those things together. And so in the book, I talk about having a list of everything you possibly could do versus everything you realistically will do, and keeping inventory of those.

That, well, exactly because you probably have something that's to doe by five pm. And then you're also like, I should do this before the summer, and then you have just a list that's kind of merging all those things together. And so in the book, I talk about having a list of everything you possibly could do versus everything you realistically will do, and keeping inventory of those.

I'm loudly because I'm thinking about the way my wife and I figure out like calendars and stuff. It's like the Google calendar, It's the whiteboard of the kitchen. It's like texting each other. I mean, what do you do at home.

I'm loudly because I'm thinking about the way my wife and I figure out like calendars and stuff. It's like the Google calendar, It's the whiteboard of the kitchen. It's like texting each other. I mean, what do you do at home.

Yeah, so I do have a Google calendar with my husband. I invite him when he needs to pick up or I need to pick up. And you know, it's if it's not on the calendar, it's not truth.

Yeah, so I do have a Google calendar with my husband. I invite him when he needs to pick up or I need to pick up. And you know, it's if it's not on the calendar, it's not truth.

It's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen.

Twenty seconds left here. If somebody wants to start thinking about being more productive in their life holistically, well to be one step step that they should take.

Twenty seconds left here. If somebody wants to start thinking about being more productive in their life holistically, well to be one step step that they should take.

Just quickly start planning for the day after the night before, so making an hour by hour plan of how you plan to spend your day tomorrow before you go to bed.

Just quickly start planning for the day after the night before, so making an hour by hour plan of how you plan to spend your day tomorrow before you go to bed.

All right, add it to your to do list, Carol, I.

All right, add it to your to do list, Carol, I.

Kind of do do lists the night before.

Kind of do do lists the night before.

You know what you need on your to do list and just to make it to do list.

You know what you need on your to do list and just to make it to do list.

So with my computer, there's like lots of stickies all over it.

So with my computer, there's like lots of stickies all over it.

I can't see anything in your Good luck with the book?

I can't see anything in your Good luck with the book?

Thank was fun Martin.

Thank was fun Martin.

Her new book is well First of Us. She's an executive productivity advisor at Google. Her new book Uptime, A Practical Guide to Personal Productivity and well Being.

Her new book is well First of Us. She's an executive productivity advisor at Google. Her new book Uptime, A Practical Guide to Personal Productivity and well Being.

Okay, so we talked a little bit just now about the jobs report from me on on Friday, we got a little peek into the labor market today, because private payrolls increasing one hundred and eighty four thousand in March after an upwardly revised one hundred and fifty five thousand gain a month earlier. That's according to figures published earlier today by ADP. The median estimate Carrol in a Bloomberg survey of economists, called for one hundred and fifty thousand increase. On Friday, we're going to get the government's monthly payroll report that's expected to show a gain of roughly two hundred fifteen thousand in private and public sector jobs.

Okay, so we talked a little bit just now about the jobs report from me on on Friday, we got a little peek into the labor market today, because private payrolls increasing one hundred and eighty four thousand in March after an upwardly revised one hundred and fifty five thousand gain a month earlier. That's according to figures published earlier today by ADP. The median estimate Carrol in a Bloomberg survey of economists, called for one hundred and fifty thousand increase. On Friday, we're going to get the government's monthly payroll report that's expected to show a gain of roughly two hundred fifteen thousand in private and public sector jobs.

All right, we have another take on the labor market. We welcome back Jayne. She's senior policy advisor for Working Nation. It's a nonprofit media organization organization excuse me, that focuses on the future of work. She's also a former Assistant Secretary of Employment and Training under the Obama administration. She joins us on this Wednesday in Arlington, Virginia. Jane, good to have you back here on Bloomberg. How are you and how do you describe the US workforce right now? I mean, we keep seeing data points that remind us it's still kind of tight and workers are doing okay.

All right, we have another take on the labor market. We welcome back Jayne. She's senior policy advisor for Working Nation. It's a nonprofit media organization organization excuse me, that focuses on the future of work. She's also a former Assistant Secretary of Employment and Training under the Obama administration. She joins us on this Wednesday in Arlington, Virginia. Jane, good to have you back here on Bloomberg. How are you and how do you describe the US workforce right now? I mean, we keep seeing data points that remind us it's still kind of tight and workers are doing okay.

Yeah, I mean I think you know Tim menche first of all, Carol, great to be back, Thank you for inviting me back, the two of you. But he just mentioned the ADP report. Not only was that job number terrific, but I hope you saw that soutres a up five point one percent year over year. I mean, I think that's the best news. We at Working Nation try to do everything from that personal standpoint, and when people are making more money, it's a happier kitchen table, whether they're using Costco skin cream or Chopolo chips.

Yeah, I mean I think you know Tim menche first of all, Carol, great to be back, Thank you for inviting me back, the two of you. But he just mentioned the ADP report. Not only was that job number terrific, but I hope you saw that soutres a up five point one percent year over year. I mean, I think that's the best news. We at Working Nation try to do everything from that personal standpoint, and when people are making more money, it's a happier kitchen table, whether they're using Costco skin cream or Chopolo chips.

Or not fair. I love it.

Or not fair. I love it.

Hey, what's not to love right now about the job market?

Hey, what's not to love right now about the job market?

So I'll tell you what bothers me the most. It's the labor market participation rate. You know, we know at sixty two and a half percent, we know that there are able, bodied, talented people sitting on the sidelines, and there are lots of employers saying they are desperate for help.

So I'll tell you what bothers me the most. It's the labor market participation rate. You know, we know at sixty two and a half percent, we know that there are able, bodied, talented people sitting on the sidelines, and there are lots of employers saying they are desperate for help.

You know.

You know.

I think that's why we tell the kinds of stories we tell at Working Nation. We're trying to motivate people there is a good job for you right now, and people don't believe you because you hear these stories, and I'm sure you can hear them all the time. People send in it a resume after resume and hear nothing. It's crickets. So they don't get any feedback on why they didn't get the job.

I think that's why we tell the kinds of stories we tell at Working Nation. We're trying to motivate people there is a good job for you right now, and people don't believe you because you hear these stories, and I'm sure you can hear them all the time. People send in it a resume after resume and hear nothing. It's crickets. So they don't get any feedback on why they didn't get the job.

That's so frustrating for people. I've seen them talking about this online. I mean, s's TikTok.

That's so frustrating for people. I've seen them talking about this online. I mean, s's TikTok.

I think that's that's hard.

I think that's that's hard.

Yeah, Hey, one thing I wanted to ask about. Go ahead, Can I just ask you though?

Yeah, Hey, one thing I wanted to ask about. Go ahead, Can I just ask you though?

So?

So?

What is the disconnect? I'm looking at my Bloomberg and I'm looking at the US labor force participation rate and where we were at twenty nineteen. We were up around not quite at sixty three. I'm looking at where we are. Yeah, we were above sixty three, and here we are at sixty two and a half. I mean, you see certainly that we have not gotten back to that level. So is it what's the disconnect? Is it older people who just retired and they've left the workforce, or like what is it? Like?

What is the disconnect? I'm looking at my Bloomberg and I'm looking at the US labor force participation rate and where we were at twenty nineteen. We were up around not quite at sixty three. I'm looking at where we are. Yeah, we were above sixty three, and here we are at sixty two and a half. I mean, you see certainly that we have not gotten back to that level. So is it what's the disconnect? Is it older people who just retired and they've left the workforce, or like what is it? Like?

What's going on? You know?

What's going on? You know?

I think there were some retirements post COVID, and some of them may have been earlier than people had anticipated.

I think there were some retirements post COVID, and some of them may have been earlier than people had anticipated.

I've seen it in my own family of members who you know, were like kind of done, you know, and just were able to take earlier retirement.

I've seen it in my own family of members who you know, were like kind of done, you know, and just were able to take earlier retirement.

Yeah, and you hope that they're happy with that, you know, those people that made it as a free will choice, that's great. Those people that were kind of pushed out. We want to try to get them back in and say there's a place for it. But I'll tell you what. It worries me that it's a lot of younger workers because you know, in last month's jobs numbers, you saw that youth unemployment sixteen to twenty year old it was twelve and a half percent. Now, that's really scary. Those are young people looking for work who couldn't find it. So I hope we get better at defining the skills that are needed for jobs, and people get better at defining their own skills.

Yeah, and you hope that they're happy with that, you know, those people that made it as a free will choice, that's great. Those people that were kind of pushed out. We want to try to get them back in and say there's a place for it. But I'll tell you what. It worries me that it's a lot of younger workers because you know, in last month's jobs numbers, you saw that youth unemployment sixteen to twenty year old it was twelve and a half percent. Now, that's really scary. Those are young people looking for work who couldn't find it. So I hope we get better at defining the skills that are needed for jobs, and people get better at defining their own skills.

Hey, you know, what's what's interesting to me?

Hey, you know, what's what's interesting to me?

I'm playing up this. Carol had this.

I'm playing up this. Carol had this.

On is what's interesting to him today? But that's okay, that's another story.

On is what's interesting to him today? But that's okay, that's another story.

Carol had this on her terminal and she was looking at it just now, so I peeked over. It is a chart that shows the labor force participation rate, and I have it going all the way back to the nineteen forties on. Here we've been in a steady decline since the year two thousand, basically two thousand.

Carol had this on her terminal and she was looking at it just now, so I peeked over. It is a chart that shows the labor force participation rate, and I have it going all the way back to the nineteen forties on. Here we've been in a steady decline since the year two thousand, basically two thousand.

Yeah, what's what's been going on here?

Yeah, what's what's been going on here?

You know, I wish I could get that answer, because then I could solve it. Right, I think it's a mosaic of causes. You know, this idea. You know, right around that time, in the early two thousands, people started experimenting with that software that could sort your resumes for you. And you know, while that software has gotten better, I still think it excludes a lot of talented people.

You know, I wish I could get that answer, because then I could solve it. Right, I think it's a mosaic of causes. You know, this idea. You know, right around that time, in the early two thousands, people started experimenting with that software that could sort your resumes for you. And you know, while that software has gotten better, I still think it excludes a lot of talented people.

So you're saying the participation rate is reflective of people not being able to get jobs.

So you're saying the participation rate is reflective of people not being able to get jobs.

I believe.

I believe.

Yes, that's interesting.

Yes, that's interesting.

So it's not necessarily people choosing not to participate in a labor for us because the job the jobs are out there. I mean, look at we we look at the Jolts numbers that we got earlier this week were more than eight million job openings.

So it's not necessarily people choosing not to participate in a labor for us because the job the jobs are out there. I mean, look at we we look at the Jolts numbers that we got earlier this week were more than eight million job openings.

But part of it is geography. You know, you guys are based in New York. Would you move to Iowa for a job? You know, I'm based in Virginia. As you said, I wouldn't move anywhere for a job. At this point, you know, I mean and and so I think people are really they're hearing about these millions of open jobs, but they're really not adjacent to where they want to live.

But part of it is geography. You know, you guys are based in New York. Would you move to Iowa for a job? You know, I'm based in Virginia. As you said, I wouldn't move anywhere for a job. At this point, you know, I mean and and so I think people are really they're hearing about these millions of open jobs, but they're really not adjacent to where they want to live.

But it also means that those people have the luxury of not moving right, that somehow they're supporting themselves, Like you know, unemployment benefits only go for so long. And I guess what I'm trying to understand is if if companies have these openings and they really want the jobs filled, they'll find the people. So I also wonder if companies are kind of holding back a little bit because you know, they just want to make sure that they have, you know, the workers they need, and they don't want to overhire. Like I feel like companies have gotten really careful about that, Carol.

But it also means that those people have the luxury of not moving right, that somehow they're supporting themselves, Like you know, unemployment benefits only go for so long. And I guess what I'm trying to understand is if if companies have these openings and they really want the jobs filled, they'll find the people. So I also wonder if companies are kind of holding back a little bit because you know, they just want to make sure that they have, you know, the workers they need, and they don't want to overhire. Like I feel like companies have gotten really careful about that, Carol.

I think you're exactly right. You know, probably the eighteen months as we were coming out of COVID, people were over hiring. You saw it in every people weren't going to show up. Yeah, and now they're kind of right sizing. But they still they post these jobs because they don't want talented people not to think they're hiring.

I think you're exactly right. You know, probably the eighteen months as we were coming out of COVID, people were over hiring. You saw it in every people weren't going to show up. Yeah, and now they're kind of right sizing. But they still they post these jobs because they don't want talented people not to think they're hiring.

Okay, we got to talk AI with you because I don't think we've had a chance, you don't think you've been on since, you know, in a few months, and we haven't talked much about AI with you, Jane. What happens to people if we become so much more efficient as a result of AI, what happens to the worker?

Okay, we got to talk AI with you because I don't think we've had a chance, you don't think you've been on since, you know, in a few months, and we haven't talked much about AI with you, Jane. What happens to people if we become so much more efficient as a result of AI, what happens to the worker?

So look, nobody is going to lose their job to AI. I believe people are going to lose their job to someone who knows how to work adjacent to AI. So it's really important that people not be afraid and they learn how to use it. Now that being said, I would not counsel anybody right now to go and be a paralegal, because I think that's a job that's likely going to be as AI improves a job that is better done, you know, with automation, and human beings will edit it, which means that human beings have to get better skills, right, they have to get those editing skills. But I think people really need to just as I would have said twenty five years ago about technology, I mean people need to embrace it because it's going to impact every single job. And if you're afraid of it and not willing to work with it, I don't mean everybody has to be able to create an algorithm, but how do you use a tool like chat GPT on your job? It doesn't replace you, it makes you work better, I hope. And it also is I think a clear message to all of us that you have to really hone in on those uniquely human skills things that right now and in the near foreseeable future, machines are not going to be able to docase passion, empathy, leadership, creativity, all of those things. We have to double down on not only teaching those skills and having people practice them, but assessing them so they can say they're proficient in those skills.

So look, nobody is going to lose their job to AI. I believe people are going to lose their job to someone who knows how to work adjacent to AI. So it's really important that people not be afraid and they learn how to use it. Now that being said, I would not counsel anybody right now to go and be a paralegal, because I think that's a job that's likely going to be as AI improves a job that is better done, you know, with automation, and human beings will edit it, which means that human beings have to get better skills, right, they have to get those editing skills. But I think people really need to just as I would have said twenty five years ago about technology, I mean people need to embrace it because it's going to impact every single job. And if you're afraid of it and not willing to work with it, I don't mean everybody has to be able to create an algorithm, but how do you use a tool like chat GPT on your job? It doesn't replace you, it makes you work better, I hope. And it also is I think a clear message to all of us that you have to really hone in on those uniquely human skills things that right now and in the near foreseeable future, machines are not going to be able to docase passion, empathy, leadership, creativity, all of those things. We have to double down on not only teaching those skills and having people practice them, but assessing them so they can say they're proficient in those skills.

I would say that we have to be stewards of AI going forward, Like just like we do a search, right and we come up with information, we're like, well that doesn't seem right, so we're gonna have to kind of drill down and we're smart about it. So I do feel like this idea of adjacent AI makes a lot more sense to me. Jane, we got to leave it there, Jane, Oh, it's a senior policy advisor for a working nation joining us there from Virginia

I would say that we have to be stewards of AI going forward, Like just like we do a search, right and we come up with information, we're like, well that doesn't seem right, so we're gonna have to kind of drill down and we're smart about it. So I do feel like this idea of adjacent AI makes a lot more sense to me. Jane, we got to leave it there, Jane, Oh, it's a senior policy advisor for a working nation joining us there from Virginia