Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Technology Analyst Anurag Rana discusses Apple’s iPhone sales in China falling by a surprising 24% over the first six weeks of this year, according to independent research that may stoke fears about worsening demand for the marquee but aging device. John Worth, EVP of Research and Investor Outreach at Nareit, talks about the impact of interest rates on the commercial real estate market. John Vinh, Equity Research Analyst at KeyBanc Capital Markets, shares his thoughts on the semiconductor space. Bloomberg News Global Economy Reporter Enda Curran provides the details of his Businessweek story Immigration Rage Drowns Out US Labor Market’s Need for Workers. And we Drive to the Close with Nancy Prial, Co-CEO and Senior Portfolio Manager at Essex Investment Management.
Hosts: Carol Massar and Tim Stenovec. Producer: Paul Brennan.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.
We started out.
Talking about the megacap tech names and one in particular, Tim is on our radar. Apple shares still down about two point nine percent today.
Yeah.
This follows independent research from Counterpoint Research noting that Apple's iPhone sales in China fell by us surprising twenty four percent over the first six weeks of the year, with the iPhone slipping to fourth place in China in the first weeks of twenty twenty four. New Street Research is head of Technology Infrastructure, Pierre Farragu weigh in on China struggles earlier on Bloomberg Surveillance.
If you look at them at Apple read to competition. It's mostly a competition is issue. So what way is back in China? They we are not able to do funds for quite a while because they couldn't access chips manufactured at TSMC an email anymore. Now they figured out the way to do chips domestically on mainland China. They are back and Chinese consumers like to buy wha, we're funds.
That was New Stream Researchers head of Technology Infrastructure Pierre Farragu earlier on Bloomberg Surveillance.
All right, we set Apple down about three percent today, down seven out of the past eight sessions for a loss of about eight percent in that timeframe. Let's get to it more on the Apple stock and the company Gloom or parent Doom, with us as Bloomberg Intelligence Senior technology analyst Ana rag Rana joining us from our Chicago bureau, Ana rog Let's talk about Apple concerns about iPhone sales in China falling by a surprising twenty four percent over the first six weeks of this year. This is according to one report. Put it in perspective for us, should we be concerned?
Oh yeah, this.
Has been the big concern for almost overs you know now probably closer twelve months, and it doesn't look like there's any you know, news or relief at this point. China consumer weakness and you know the warwave phone which got its first to upgrade after many years. Those are the two factors that are having people not choose Apple at this point. And again, this is the biggest growth driver for Apple in the near term is China and other emerging markets. And if China, you know, catches a cold, then it's going to be a problem for Apple for at least this year and perhaps even next year well.
Greater China accounting for nineteen percent of Apple's revenue and fiscal year twenty twenty three on arag How does Apple turn itself around here? How does it improve this cold that, as you call it?
I think it's going to take some time unless, you know, if unless they come up with some new AI features by summer that can help drive this. You know, I would say weak iPhone sales refresh cycle. What has happened over the last three four years is the iPhone, being such a thirty product, has seen its life elongate, which means before the refreshed cycle was about three point six years. If it gets extended by four years, then you're going to you know, sell more less new phones every year compared to the last few years. And that's what's really happening. And the second thing is each of these phones are getting more and more expensive, so people are keeping them at a longer period of time. In order to refresh that or in order to change that, you need to come up with new features, and that's not been the case, although I would say that the fifteen does have a much better camera than anything else out there. But I think AI could be something that can jumpstart that. But we you know, we are so far away from them even showcasing what they can do, you know, let alone hoping that that's going to drive more iPhone sales.
So is a an AI generative or AI generative or generative AI should say iPhone? Is that the answer?
You know? And what is this?
I know Samsung's already got something out and seems to be getting a lot of attention, but is that it?
It's basically that your operating system itself, the you know, the default system on the phone has a lot of those features for which you're using applications right now. And if Apple's able to pull some of those things out, people with older hardware, less memory, you know, the battery running out, not a faster processor, will basically say well, if I want some of these features, I'm going to go out and upgrade my phone. So that's really what the driving factor is but those features need to be you know, pretty damn good in order for somebody to go out and buy new phone.
I mean, what what kind of features are we talking about here, because it seems to be a simple fix would be, you know, offering consumers something that they do repeatedly on their phones, like getting off the subway and realizing, okay, I need a city bike somewhere. This is a New York example. But why does an Apple just have the technology to tell me, okay, the closest electric city bike is at this station, which is this far away, Like I do this every day on my on my community.
Our data set's got to be incredible.
I've got to be in It seems like an easy lift.
That this is an easy lift in principle. But remember Apple was you know, wants to do a lot of other things also, and that's why, you know, we were happy that they got rid of that car project. We think it was not a smart idea, and now they're refocusing all their attention on gen Ai. That's good because at the end of the day, you know, you can experiment all you want, but the phone is really your livelihood, and that's where the attention needs to be focus on that make it develop better than faster than anything else, and you know the user will follow.
This is all about the ecosystem, the Apple ecosystem. Everything's got to feed it, right anaog.
Yep, absolutely, And you know imagine that. You know, we say that, you know, iPhones only fifty two percent of sales, but if I were to add the headphones and the watch and other things, the Apple ecosystem is far bigger than that. And not to forget all the services because those are double digit growth numbers and that's where you know a lot of the monetization can happen too, and it's a much higher margin business. So you got to go protect your ecosystem. You know you're going to be in the stew to five percent growth for many years to come.
All right, good stuff as always. Bloomberg Intelligence Senior technology analyst Aana Agrano with the latest on Apple shares down about two point eight percent off their lows, but still down a lot.
One thing I talk about all the time is the iOS ecosystem. It's not as strong in China because of the over the top apps, the payment apps. We're all in one apps that people used to communicate it's not like I message here.
It's not like something we have embraced, but it's definitely something you see.
In China interface much as Facebook has wanted us to embrace it exactly for us.
To Apple shares, by the way, they have been down. They're down almost eight percent since about February twenty seconds.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple car Play and then brought auto with a Bloomberg Business app or wants us live on YouTube.
We do want to talk about the real estate space, and there is one story that caught our attention about how the one trillion dollar asset manager Blackstone plans to more than double its holdings of Indian warehouses and may eventually take the logistics business public as the asset manager increases its best on the world's fastest growing major economy. So big bet on logistics, big bet on India.
Blackstone, of course a big player generally when it comes to real estate, everything from data center, office, residential and more all around the world. More generally from a US investment perspective, the Bloomberg US three hundred reit Price Return Index. It's down Carroll roughly one percent year to date for fractionally higher though from about a year ago.
Yah, so kind of a little changed on the year. So let's get to our interview this hour. Here to talk about reets is John Worth. He's executive vice president of Research and investor Outreach at NAYRE. It's the National Association of Reeds, which is a global voice fort and real estate companies. They've got to focus and of course interest in US real estate. That makes sense. John based in Washington, DC, joining us here in studio. John, great to have you here.
How are you.
I'm great, great, We're doing quite well.
Well.
Tell us about how well because when we talk about real estate, right, it's not just location, location, location, it's also what kind of vertical There's all different types.
Of data center, data center.
You could say, right, is it all data center data center? So tell us about the different sectors where there's growth, where there's weakness.
Yeah. I think that's a great question because I think one of the things that so many people don't understand is the breadth of real estate today. So uh and and really, you know, we we like to say real estate houses the economy, so it needs to be as broad and diverse as the economy, and and Reats have have really been on the leading edge of innovation in this space, so they're some of the leading owners of data centers, which you mentioned, which is you know, has been the best forming property sector last year on a year to date basis this year and really being propelled forward by AI tailwinds that that don't look like they've got really any end in sight. There's a lot of momentum in that sector. But we've also got self storage facilities, cell phone towers, health care facilities as well as you know, the more traditional sectors of industrial and logistics facilities.
This is where growth is.
We're we're seeing a lot of growth in industrial and logistics over the long term, we think, even though though this year, you know, the demand has been a little slower in the multifamily space, we're going to see we see those long term tail winds. Of course, in the cell phone tower space, lots of tail winds. And then you know, more broadly, the whole sector has really been doing quite well since we've sort of entered this period of a monetary policy pause. In a year to date basis, we're about flat, but if you actually go back to the end of October, reads are up about twenty percent since then.
Okay, more on rates in just a minute. What about where you're seeing weakness when it comes to all these different sectors of reats that you talked about. We know data centers are certainly doing well with FBAI frenzy. What's not doing so well well?
I think I think the you know, if we look back over the last couple of years, by far the worst forming sector has been the office sector, which I think has really been weighed down by what are the really meaningful work from home risks? I do think you know what we're going to see in that space, and we're clearly in the middle of what is a kind of multi year experiment in how we live and how we work, and what we're seeing there is are we.
Still experimenting or have we figured it out?
I think we're still experimenting. I think that we are seeing more organizations ask their employees to come back to work. I think that as we're seeing academics look into what the productivity impacts are, what we're realizing is some of what we saw early in this experiment in twenty twenty twenty twenty one was a little bit of a sugar high, and that it's not all positive when it comes to productivity. That said, workers, you know, especially white collar workers, they really like their work from home days.
Nobody's commuting on Friday.
We're seeing except for us, except you cannot get a pickle ball in the suburbs on a Friday. That is absolutely true. Uh, but I think I think it's a it's still an evolution. And part of what we're seeing, and you certainly see this in New York, is it's a flight to quality. So if you own the high quality office space, which I think by and large that's where where where reads have focused in terms of demand, you're going to be in a pretty good place.
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the rate situation, because we're at a point where Carroll, I think we've almost gone an entire show without talking about the FED.
Don't do it.
Don't do it.
I'm not going to I'm going to get speaking tomorrow, so I want to give them some time to breathe and get ready. That's relevant, Okay, when we're in an environment like this where the entire market is on its toes about when is the FED going to cut rates? What typically happens with reads?
You know the historically what we've seen and this cycle is following a very similar pattern that we see reads underperform during the period when we're in that monetary adjustment phase and then they're going to outperform once that rate rising cycle is over. So what we saw late last year was we saw a nice little bull run in reads in the last couple of months of the year. That that maybe was even when when I think markets we were a little over enthusiastic about how right it's not a J. Powell term, but yeah, maybe so about how tomorrow.
But I do wonder then how much, as you say, reads are up twenty one percent from that late October low last year, how much of the exuberance over how aggressive the Fed would be about rate cuts is already priced in.
Well, I think we've seen the pullback this year in terms of in terms of that forward look and when we put back or leveling off, well, it was a little pullback and that now we're about level after reads were up a bit in February, and I think when we when we get the signal, when we really see rates start to be cut. I think there's more bullishness sentiment in those in reats because one of the things that you know, when we get past the macro elements, people and investors can start to look through it to the actual operating performance which has been quite good, and the balance sheets which are quite strong and and reads are really well.
Not every sector, are you taking every sector?
Really across the reed sector? Now, this isn't commercial real estate generally. This is the publicly traded reats where they've really showed a lot of discipline in their balance sheets. They've got a six and a half year way to average term into maturity. About ninety percent of their debt is fixed rate, so they've really prepared themselves to work through this period.
Hey, I just want to end with going back to data centers because they really are so hot right now. Are your members at all concerned about regulatory concerns when it comes to data center power usage and essentially community saying no, we do not want this here because it uses so much power and doesn't provide a ton of jobs.
Frankly, yeah, I think I think there's a real concern that the ability to add new supply in the data center space is really going to be constrained over the next couple of years.
Uh.
You know, the sighting has become more difficult in terms of power, in terms of water usage. That said, I you know, if if you look at some of the data center reachs, they have tried to be very forward leaning in terms of sustainability in terms of generating uh, generating generating power through renewable through renewables, limiting their water usage. But that's gonna that's going to be a real, a real issue now. That said, you know, as an investor, that supply constraint can be a positive and that's part of what I think is propelling the red stocks in that space because they've been in this space, they have have a well established position and lots of facilities.
Well, great to check in with you and thanks for stopping by while you're in New York. John Worth's Secative VP of Research Investor Outreach at NYRATE.
This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio It's.
Bloomberg Business Week, Carol Master, Tim Stenebeck, Carol, I got to tell you this story. Yes, blew my mind, Okay, because we think a lot about immigration, but not necessarily in the context at least politicians don't think about it in the context at all, or they don't present it in the context that I think many would argue should be presented in, which has to do with employment and has to do with how much we're going to lose if we don't figure out the workers show.
Well, they should just listen to us, because we talk about it in the US.
We exactly we talk about it. Okay, So the US has never relied more on immigrants for economic growth.
By the end of the.
Decade, the severe labor shortage lead to one point seventy five trillion dollars in unrealized economic output that is real money in a very short period of time.
Well it's real, you know, impact on the economy. So you think Congress would be doing everything and anything it could to make it easier for immigrants to address the severe labor shortage and fill jobs that Americans do not want to do. Something that we have been talking about, to be quite honest, for years.
So is that happening. No, no, okay, it's not happening.
Well.
End of Current and Augusta Saraiva write all about this today and one of the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal End of Current is Bloomberg News Global Economy reporter. He joins us from Washington, DC, and the numbers in here are just staggering. So to what extent right now does the US rely on immigrant labor.
It relies on immigrant labor a lot at the moment. So you know, to be clear, if the outsid this is very political and very divisive, like you were saying, we came up this angle through the economic and business lens and we went there to speak to business grew and trade groups, many of whom are based here in Washington, and we said, look, what's your take on the immigration debate and they all had the very same message. They there is a chronic shortage of workers. They need more legal migrants to be allowed in, but they're getting nowhere with Congress. And this is from across the spectrum of groups that represent every corner of the economy, and the fact they are stepping up their measures in terms of in terms of how they're heard. But as you mentioned, the numbers are real in terms of the worker shortages. The numbers are real in terms of the economic damage and the potential. Of course, if if more legal immigrants do come into work, is that the numbers real in terms of generating additional revenue for the economy too.
So, in other words, end if you run a business, let's say Chipotle, for example, or another fast casual QSR, or perhaps you're in the construction industry, or perhaps you're in any sort of other business, this is this is not political. What you heard from all of these folks and the trade groups that represent them is once in message, right.
They were crossing party lines. They were naturally careful to make the point they advocate for legal migration. They but they were laying it on down the line that both sides of the aisle are not addressing this issue for them. And we spoke to representatives and business people all the way around the countries, farmers, nursing home representatives, you name it, and they all explained that they have vacancies that they couldn't fill locally and that they've had to you know, recruit from immigrants coming in now. Of course, immigration is the only solution. They do say, you need to invest in skilling up the local workforce. Education plays a role in all of that. But the end result is that they're, you know, want they're just aren't have workers to fill all the vacancies around the country right now. And that's why these these companies are saying it's nearing, it's at a crisis point. It's not a new problem, but it's gotten much worse than it ever was.
Yeah.
I have a friend who's a lawyer who works down into you see, and it's all about, you know, making getting workers from outside the United States, foreign workers basically work visas, and so that they can work in this country, often for a long period of time. Having said that, your story makes a distinction end up between legal and illegal immigrants. That's an important distinction. Talk to us about that, and then what is holding up the legal immigrants who are here from getting work visas.
Yeah, so it is important these companies and trade groups that we spoke to, they're talking about legal migration number one and doing it correctly and properly. And of course they're not advocating for the problems that have been seen on the sun border this year. But at the same time, though, they are making it clear that even if there cannot be a grand bargain with say an immigration and we saw that kind of deal fail a few weeks ago, there needs to be at least, you know, some piecemeal bits and bobs and here and there that will free up or lift a cap for skilled workers in certain sectors, certain areas who at least take the pressure of out of all to allow workers in where they can. And that's what they're hoping for. And of course it's election here, so it makes it all the harder. But they're drumming up their message. So as I say, we spoke to it is an equipment manufacturer group who is flying people into DC trying to get the point across the lawmakers that they don't have anything to drive their equipment. There is a group that represents franchisees. They're getting new members flooding in like Young and Chipotle you mentioned, and they're in their meetings with lowmakers saying, hey, when you're in a restaurant you can't get served. You want to know why, It's because there's no labor. They're putting it across in colorfual terms. As a construction group. We spoke to for the first time launching a digital advertising campaign in the election on immigration. They haven't done this before in immigration there going to target certain seats around the country. So the interesting thing was we spoke to these people Augusta, my colleague and I that this is not new. You all know the story backwards. But they're saying it's at a point now where it really hasn't been before, and there's no sense of a legislative break. To me, people give me a lecture. And what was in nineteen eighty six on the robber Reagan for example. That's how far back people are saying the reforms need to be updated to So a lot of work to be done and businesses are crying out for it to be done.
And what's holding it up? Is it somebody saying stamping it approved or like what is it? Is it judges? Is it like, what is it that's actually stopping the process? Or is it caps in terms of the number of workers who are actually allowed to get these work visas.
Yeah, it seems to be a couple of things. So first of all, people say the current systems are outdated, antiquated, expensive, bureaucratic. I spoke last week to a farm in Arizona, for example, and for the first time he went on the H one program to get some four workers in and he's just explained it costs a lot of money and took a lot more time than it should have done. So there are complains about the existing architecture that's outdated, they say. But then of course you go into the current influx and the system kind of cope with who should be a legal migrant and not that's playing out at the moment, And then you go into the politics of it, and saw that play out a few weeks ago. You know, for different reasons, different parts of the political process don't want to agree on a deal at the moment, and the end result is that it's it's it's in a bit of a funk, and workers don't employers don't think it's going anywhere soon there, and they're screaming me out hoping that somebody will be done at some point.
Hey, let's take a step back and talk a little bit about why the US faces this crisis right now. I mean, there are some fundamental things happening. One is that baby boomers are retiring, so they're no longer going to be in the workforce in the coming years. And then the other part of this has to do with birth rate. Millennials are not having the same number of kids that previous generations did. So if this doesn't get solved, what do we end up looking like here in the US. Do we see an economy that looks like Japan? That's exactly what I was going to say. Do we look to Japan for what happens?
And China as well? I mean, the demographic story is a challenge in many major economies around the world. It is the same for the US. The US is not as chronic as other places, but it absolutely is. So there was a Congressional Budget Office paper recently that we cited in the article making the point that in broad terms, population growth, you know, over thecoming decatther so it's probably going to rely on immigration. That's how critical it will be to growing the labor force in this country because, as you mentioned, the boomers are retiring, the birth rate isn't keeping up, so something has to fill the gap. Now, I should say, by the way, of course, there is you know, spirited academic debate in terms of what immigration or how immigration impacts wages, especially for lower income workers as important flag is, and there are there is literature out there that suggests lower income wages will be will grow more slowly under scenario of immigration. So there are downside in certain sectors, and we mentioned that in the article. But the net takeaway, including from the CBO, is that without immigration the population won't grow. It would add about seven trillion to the economy and create about one trillion in revenues for the government. So there are negatives, but they are more positives as well.
So there's the immigration debate to have up on the political campaign trail.
I'm thinking, oh, is that going to happen starting tomorrow?
That's a much more productive conversation.
Productive. Did you say productive and did you say Capitol Hill in the in the same sentence.
I know I'm living in this like critics.
Critics might say you wear glasses, but let me take off my rose colored glasses.
I would say. There are critics out there who say that there's not a lot of a lot happening on Capitol Hill.
Unbelievable and a killer story. I mean, Tim and I just can't get enough of it. It's such an important story, it's a must read. We're going to put it out on our social feed. And a current is Bloomberg News Global Economy reporter joining us from Washington, d C.
This has got to be part of the narrative.
Critics is it going to be?
Non critics would say, I think everybody says.
He's got to be part of the narrative.
Brother a journal, how about you let me drive?
Oh no, no, no, no, honey, please, I want to try.
It's a good question.
This is the drive to the clothes for me. Think well By on Bloomberg Radio.
All right, everybody, just about seventeen and a half minutes left to go in the trading session on this Tuesday. Charlie, of course, just breaking down the numbers. We're pretty much hovering at our worst levels of this session, the Nasdaq taking the biggest, beating down about two percent here on the day. Let's get to it, let's get to our drive to the closed guest.
And yeah, we got Nancy pry All back with us, co CEO and senior portfolio manager at Essex Investment Management, got about seven hundred million dollars in assets under management. Nancy joining us from Chicago. Nancy, good to have you with us this afternoon. Here a day like today, the worst day for the Nasdaq one hundred going back to October, we're seeing some significant selling on the S and P five hundred. Look for context. The S and P five hundreds still up six percent year to date. But are you concerned on a day like today.
No, we're not.
I mean, we've actually been expect to see some kind of a pullback. We've had an extraordinary number of days of the market going up, of tech going up, really without a pause, and we were actually getting a little concern that there was a level of complacency coming into the market. As we know, nothing goes up in a straight line, and so this we think is a pause that refreshes. We also think that interestingly, we're seeing some breadth in the market underneath the weakness that we're seeing in the large cap in disease, particularly in the Nasdaq and the qqqs, as investors are starting to think there might be other ways to play some of these phenomenal growth trends that the market has been positively reacting to, and we think that's very good news. With the Russell down a little over one percent, so outperforming most of the large cap benchmarks.
Is there any significance that when we talk about the Nasdaq one hundred down the most in October twenty fifth of twenty twenty three, that on October twenty six, twenty twenty three, hit a low and then was just a march to the upside. Like you know, I always technicals whatever or how investors look at things. Is there anything significant in that or is it just a coincidence?
At this point, I would say it's just a coincidence. I don't think that this is going to be a one day V shaped back. My guess is that we're going to see a period of churning here. I don't think we're going to go down a lot, but I don't think we're going to go back off to the races either. I mean, as you mentioned, since October twenty sixth, it's been pretty much a straight line up. There was a lot of pessimism in the market at that point, a lot of concerns about inflation, interest rates, et cetera.
We've had a.
Little bit of the opposite of you know, everybody now expects us off landing. Everybody's looking for the first Fed cut. Everybody's debating how many FED cuts there will be. We're going to need to digest that and come back to some point in the middle. And we think in that environment and again that the key will be stock selection.
Digest or get some clarification.
Thank you J.
Powell, who's going to be up on Capitol Hill tomorrow.
Well both, and we don't expect mister Powell to say anything that will be particularly clarifying. We think he will hedge his bets as they remain data driven. So you know, we are optimistic that it really is more period of digestion than clarification. Just we don't expect the first FED cut before June, and we think the market is going to come to that, and at that point, when the Fed does come cut, hopefully it will be a positive surprise to the market as opposed to something that's already been discounted in the market. So we think we can go sideways here for a while. And again, companies who can outgrow expectations will be in with attractive valuations will be in a position to thrive even in that environment.
Are you buying today? Do you see today as a buying opportunity?
We are selectively buying not necessarily the things that are getting hit most today, though again we are looking at companies that have not yet been fully discovered, fully recognized by Wall Street, where those opportunities are just starting to emerge, maybe where there's been a recent earnings report that was better than expected. And so those are the names we would be buying in this kind of an environment as well as the names we were buying yesterday as well. Well.
It's funny because you know, we focus on, you know, obviously the overall indices and what they're doing, and we're just you know, we've come off, we're bouncing a little bit off at the bottom here. But having said that, a name like Target is up eleven percent today, you're number one performer in the S and P five hundred. This has to do with its earnings results. I mean, companies are discretion in the companies I should say investors are. You know, they kind of weed through and look at the fundamental story, right, and they are willing to buy even on a downward day. That says something.
That does say something, and that actually is a little bit of a change in the market from where we had been. Where it was it was much higher correlate. Everything was moving together. It was risk on or risk off, interest rates up, interest rates down. What we're starting to see again is some of that broadening where investors are looking for those individual either those individual stories, those individual site stocks, or even maybe some individual themes that can report better than expected where it's not yet fully discounted in the price of the stock. Seeing that with Target, We've seen that with a number of other companies in this reporting season as well.
Okay, so you you mentioned soft landing. You came on with us back in August, I believe, and you said that there was likely going to be a soft landing. I imagine you have even more conviction now.
Actually, I guess I'm a little bit contrarian in this. I'm a little concerned that there is complacency building in the system. We don't think we're going to have a deep recession, but we do think that there are some signs of some slow down, particularly in capital spending, and we're not quite sure where things are in inventories. So we still think a soft landing is the best case scenario and the likeliest scenario, but it might be a little bit bumpier than what the street is currently anticipating, meaning we could have one quarter again that shows a little bit of negative growth. What we think we've seen some kind of rolling recessions out there in the marketplace for the last year or so, and that may continue to happen where different sectors underperform at different times. It seems that, you know, with the target report, maybe the consumer is coming back a little but capital spending is certainly slowing down a little bit as well.
Hey just got about thirty seconds. Give us one name that you like right now that you might be buying. I know you shared a few with our producer.
Yeah. So a company that reported fairly recently that we still really like is a company called Docibo. It is a bit of a play on AI. It's also a play on employment being strong and the need to do corporate training workforce retraining. It's a Canadian software company with a learning management system that uses AI to customize learning for new employees, particularly focused on sales and marketing, and allows you to deliver that training in a way that's very customized to the individual and much more cost effectively for the company. They reported a great quarter, better than expected, great stock reacted nicely, and we think it still has room to go.
Real quick synopsis, We appreciate it's about a one point six billion dollar market cap. Stop stock is at by the way, up about eight percent of CEBO that tickers DCBO. Nancy, thank you so much. Nancy Pile, Co, chief executive Officer and senior portfolio manager at Essex Investment Management, joining us from Chicago.
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. I'll a little on Apple and Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Easter on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business And you can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal