Everyone, Welcome to Bloomberg's where it's real to here from Grant Hill in just a few minutes. He's got a new book out. It's called Game. Speaking of Game, let's talk about the state of pro basketball. Vanessa Perdomo. We've been looking at the NBA the w n b A two really interesting seasons, one finishing up, one underway. The n b A ratings are up, but kind of like we're still trying to figure out what this season really means. Right, we don't know what that really means yet. Right, ratings are up from one, but like we were still dealing with the COVID protocols, still dealing with less fans of the games, still dealing with all of that. This is the first season where things are back on track. This is the first time they played in June since two thousand and nineteen, you know, the playoffs, so it's the you know, audience is there obviously, and it's great to see the numbers go up, but what does it mean exactly as far as growth of the game overall in the last ten years, it feels like we're seeing a game on both sides that is in transition. In many ways. You've got stars. Everybody loves Lebron, but Lebron probably only has you know, one too, maybe three more seasons left. That seems like an outside bet to to think he's going to be around for that long. Steph Curry still going strong. Um, but you do have this new generation of players coming up that's bringing some new energy. If you think historically about the NBA, it does go through these moments of inflection. Brand Hill, who we're going to hear from later on, he was part of one of those as well. I'm excited for the for the new stars, the Jaws and the Anthony Edwards that you know, to really sort of get their due and start to define their own league, right because right now they're not thought of as the superstars of the league, but they really are already superstars when you consider how well they are branding themselves, how how big of fans them they really already have. And I think it's really exciting that there's there hasn't been a sort of oh here's the long but Tom throw to the next generation like they're already there. They're already beating there. Jason Tatum and you know, sweeping KD and the Nets. You know, so it's already there and it's really exciting. And I think that that's what the league was built on, right. The league was saved by Magic and Bird because of their stardom, because of their rivalry. So and and then against they've buy MJ and you said Grant Hill and that era. So it's it's always about the superstars of the league. And I think there's always this worry Lebron's gonna leave eventually, you know, I mean, he can't play here. You know, he says he's gonna play until whenever he's you know, his son comes in the league, or whenever he can, which I do believe he can because even though I didn't make the playoffs, s he's still playing great. But you know, at least there wasn't some sort of lull, because that's what the NBA doesn't want, right, you can't have that. And the the great thing about the people you're talking about, John and Anthony Edwards, they're coming for um like small markets right there there, in these small market teams that it's it's great to see that. And you see Jana staying at Milwaukee, which is amazing. So it's not just the Lakers, who are you know, doing great things or just the warriors, you know. So that's the other exciting part of it. And meanwhile, I feel like there's a lot of economic tumult to some extent, but also a lot of opportunity on the women's side. We were talking before we came on air about an interview cat Engelbert, the commissioner, gave just a few weeks ago about potential expansion the w n b A. It feels like it's at a critical moment twenty five years in. There's a lot of expectation that they're finally going to turn the corner, finally about to get over that hump. But it's this weird hump that years the NBA they were, you know, about to be bankrupt. So they're actually doing great. You know, they have the seventy five million dollars of capital fundraising that they did this year, and it looks like they're right on the precipice of expanding the league, which is something that people have been wanting for a long time. You haven't had a new team since two thousand and eight in the Atlanta Dream, So I think that it's going to happen, will it? She said in that interview with the Athletic could be as early as which would be perfect. You know, you have coming off such a big March Madness. People want to see women's basketball and they want to see it now, so hopefully you know that's where we're going. I'm glad you brought up March Madness because we're gonna get to our conversation with Grant Hill, and I know it's going to come up because he played four years at Duke. The college game for both the men and the women is largely going to inform what the pro leagues look like and and I l is different. All of it's really different. So I'm excited. Yeah, me too. I mean, I mean, I think it's like the perfect time right now, especially when you're thinking of the business of basketball. They're building themselves as stars in college and they're able to profit off of it. So one you'll see less people going broke by the time they're in their twenties. You'll see bigger stars, you'll see bigger fans. People are going to carry with them for a long time. Page Bookers has been you know, famous since she was in high school really, but people followed her at Yukon and they were like, she's not in the w n b A game right now, so it's like when she gets there. Hopefully when she gets there, there will be other teams for her to join and it will be really exciting time, very interesting moment of inflection all around the world of basketball. So let's turn to a guy who knows a lot about that, and my interview was Grant Hill. So Grant, it's really nice to see you. Congratulations on the book it's called Game. We're going to talk about that at length, but I want to start by asking you about the state of basketball. I mean, you see it from all different perspectives as a former player, as the head of USA Basketball, as an owner of a team. How would you describe it the business of basketball right now? I think it's as exciting as ever. The game is global. We're spreading our wings all over the globe. Africa, the NBA Africa's was just unleashed last year. I think now we're in the midst of an exciting playoffs. Um, we didn't have a Lebron James like we've used to having in the playoffs, but we still have had great excitement. I think the ratings Game one was as high as it's been. In the last four years, we've seen an introduction of you know, new young talent emerge in our game, and so leadership from the league offices. I think we have incredibly successful and engaged owners in our league now. I think, you know, the diversity we have. I think half of our coaches now are African American. Like, it's just we're the most progressive UH sports league I think in the United States. UH. And we're continuing to grow our business and grow interest all over the world. So I think we're As someone who's been around it and involved in different roles since it's hard to believe has been that long, I'm really excited about where we are and also what's in store as we move forward into the future. We're gonna go backwards in time a little bit. But but take me back to coming into the league in ninety four, because it was a different league than it was at a in some ways a similar moment of inflection. You know, you had some stars of the of the eighties and early nineties sort of rolling off as it were. You came in with a class of really exciting players. What was different about then versus now? Well, first of all, the eighties was an important, uh a decade for the league. Magic Larry Bird, Lakers, Celtics. You couldn't script those rivalries and those championships they won. And I think we really the league built itself. David Stern sports marketing genius. I think cable television was starting to emerge, like everything was sort of starting to happen. Then this guy named Jordan's uh you know, emerged in the late eighties early nineties, the Dream Team. You know, now you're growing and and sort of showcasing these talented players all over the globe. So all this was happening prior tremendous amount of momentum during that you know, fifteen years stretch, the growth of the league and the success and popularity. And then incomes this this you know, this kid from Duke with a bad haircut, and uh, I emerge at a time where things were just taking off contract it was reflected in player contracts, marketing deals, opportunities which I was able to benefit from. So I came in at a really uh important time. There was also a bit of a void that was Jordan's first retirement. Who was gonna next carry that mantle? I kind of benefited that from that maybe a little bit, maybe a little prematurely, I wasn't quite ready for that kind of responsibility, but but yeah, I mean it was it felt like we were at all time high. And to think in the last plus years, like we've taken it to a whole another level. Now, this was before social media, this was before really even the Internet, and and and and so it was. It was a magical time. And I think a lot of times we kind of refer to that era as sort of the Golden era. The mid eighties to the mid nineties was was an important part, important time frame, I believe for the growth and the success of our league. Yeah, and so let's go not all the way back, but but pretty far back to Actually I am gonna I'm gonna go all the way back to your birth because one of the things I learned in your book that you've talked a little bit about before was how you got your name, which is not a typical story, and also I think illustrates a lot about to where you came from and and sort of what was very formative for you in terms of your parents in their background. Yes, so you know, my dad played for the Cowboys, and Roger stall Back was obviously his teammate was in my parents wedding, so our families were very close. Uh. In anticipation of my arrival, my parents had picked out girls names. And I think they assumed why and how I don't know, but they assumed I would I would be a girl, and obviously I wasn't. And anyone who knows my father, uh, it takes him forever to make a decision. And so for two or three days, I'm in Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, Texas, and um, my name is baby Boy Hill. And so Roger Stallback comes to visit, you know, the baby and mom and family, and is determined to give the baby me a name. And uh, and so we took my paternal grandmother and her maiden name is Grant and so and my dad's middle name is Grant, so sort of keeping it in the family, honoring, you know, my my parents family, my dad's family. Uh. And so I'm grateful I might have been able to leverage baby Boy Hill later as an athlete that could have had a nice room. He's not of babies now and entertainment, and I might have been ahead of my head of my time, but but like a good Hall of Fame iconic quarterback, he came in, took charge of the huddle or in this case, the hospital room, and gave me my name. And as a football fan growing up in the late seventies early eighties in Washington, d C. That was my claim to fame as a cowboy fan, to be able to brag in elementary school that Roger stall Back named me. Yeah, I mean that the weird but okay, as the kids say, right, And so let's talk about your parents, maybe from a slightly different perspective, given that we are here at Bloomberg, which is your business sense, the decisions that you make over time about your career, your education, and even your subsequent jobs clearly are rooted in their guidance in many ways and sort of the template they set. One of the things that you talked about in the book, which I found so interesting, is this notion that your parents success initially was actually unhelpful to you and like and from a credibility perspective on the court, I mean, I'm overstating it, but but tell me a little bit more about that. Well, you know, first of all, I'm an only child of two only children, so we were and we are very close. And I think they were constantly trying to just use whatever, you know, whatever they experience in their careers in business and in sport to teach me and less learned. And so, you know, little did I know that would help me later on as I entered the business of sport in a number of different ways. But they were achievers, they were successful, and I was cognizant and aware of that. And a lot of my peers from different ethnicities, different like didn't have parents who were my mom and dad, and so I was always aware of that. At times, it was intimidating, and I struggled with confidence. I think sometimes those were such big shoes to fill and felt overwhelming during my young years. But in basketball like that doesn't help you, you know, and sometimes people that could be a hindrance, you know. And and the perception of a you know, of a dad who was a professional athlete. Everyone's coming after you. Everyone thinks you can't play, and so you know, I I kind of, you know, use that to my advantage. Uh And and you know, perception steroids, whatever was there. You could feel it sometimes. But you know, the one thing in sports, I say it's the ultimate meritocracy, first of all. And as a parent of girls who are jocks, there's nothing I can do in terms of money, resources, whatever that can make them be successful. They have to go out and earn it. And I was so driven when I was their age and I was young to earn whatever came my way on the playing field or in this case, on the basketball court. And so my parents success that was great, had great advantages, great exposure, great education, lessons learned, still learning to this day. But that doesn't help you when you're on the court and you're at the playground or you're trying to establish yourself. And so I was determined to like carve out my own lane and to do my own thing. And in part maybe why I didn't play football, which was my first love. Not also my dad wouldn't let me play until I got to high school. But basketball, like was it was a chance us for me to achieve and a chance to prove that I could do well. Yeah, well it also and and this could be the subject of an entirely other podcast of you Know Me opening the fact about the fact that are bemoaning the fact that you didn't end up at Georgetown and you ended up at Duke. But we we won't we won't deal that. But let's talk about Duke for a second, because there are a couple of things that are notable about your career there that set you up for where you are today. One is obviously coach k and you write a lot about him in the book, and I've seen you with him on stage, and clearly that bond is incredibly deep and meaningful. But you're also of a generation that went to school for four years and graduated, and that's not the n B A or that's not the the n C Double A and an NBA that we're in right now. How has that How do you look back on on that decision and then the state of basketball today, of which you have a really league important steak in in USA Basketball and as an owner of a team. Yeah, I mean it's hard to think that you know, players, you know, majority stayed in school all four years and a totally different time and it wasn't even like it wasn't even an option like I didn't. It wasn't something that I I mean, there there were some examples of players Magic Johnson after two years, and certain guys that Michael Jordan's was there for three years at North Carolina. But for the most part, you stayed in school, and I like I had fun, Like I would have stayed another year, Like I had so much fun as a student athlete. But you know, things have changed. And um, I think first of all the four years that I was there, we did some amazing things. But there's a connection that I have with that school and I had with my alma mater, and other players of that era I think had with their school, the alumni, the school, the administration of fact, like everybody got to know you think, to follow your journey, and that emotional connection that we have with you have with Georgetown. You know, you get a chance to be and watch that. When guys now are only there for one year, you don't really get a chance to know them and connect with them and feel like like they're one of ours or we're one. You know, we're we're all in this together. And so I think it's impacted intercollegiate sports. And but you know college basketball, uh, the n b A, I mean we've we've been younger, We've become a younger league in the last twenty years. I think we've adapted to that trend when players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady uh skipped college and went right from high school into the NBA. When the league changed that rule to to now a one and done you had to go to college for one year, I don't think we had the resources to support young teenagers making that transition. Obviously there were example bowls, Kobe Garnett, Tea Mac they became Hall of famers, there a legendar, but there are other examples of players who struggle. And so as you fast forward to present day, and I know what the Hawks like. We have unlimited resources. We have people who help with player development on the court, off the court, um and that transition from one year of college, two years of college to now the responsibilities and the pressures and in all of the potential pitfalls that are out there. Uh, we're able to support these players a lot. And I think that's universal across the board in the NBA. So, uh, the times have changed. Were younger, we draft more maybe on potential and what they potentially could become. They're pretty they're pretty darn good, you know, and it's it's amazing to watch and from an economic perspective, you look at something like the changing rules around name, im engine likeness, I mean everything. See i'd say every thing, but a lot of things seem to be changing around the life of a college and a pro athlete. What's the advice that you give, especially from a business perspective, having made that transition into the business world, what's the advice you give to to those players coming through? Well, a lot is happening, you know. Intercollegiate athletics is rapidly evolving, and it's a little it's exciting, but it's also a little scary and and just because we don't know what that's gonna look like, even the n I L it just seems like we've gone from one extreme to the to the next extreme. Um, you know, I think sometimes. Look, I had an issue in college when I tried to buy my jersey in the bookstore and because of the rules, the school couldn't give me a jersey and I had to pay a hundred and twenty dollars from my own jersey, And like, to me, that's it. That still doesn't sit right with me, And not that they're making money off of me, but just fact that I had to pay for my own jersey like that. I didn't quite understand that. But now you have extremes amount of money that certain players, certain athletes are are getting, and go ahead and get as much as you can. It just changes things a little bit. And now the innocence now the relationship with the school. You know, you can almost be looked upon in some ways as an employee. And and so you're not there at the ultimate you haven't reached the destination yet of getting to the professional ranks. I hope that that doesn't hinder that that process for some of these players and change the dynamics in the locker room. You know, one of the things when I went from being a college player to a pro player was now it's a business. Now not everybody necessarily wants to see you succeed on your own team. And now you throw this money around in college, and you sometimes can worry will that be the case in the intercollegiate environment. One of the other big changes that we've seen, you've seen it from multiple perspectives in current day, and you saw it coming through your career is athlete empowerment um speaking out politically. You write in your book about I believe it was your mom's business partner, Cliff Alexander, and sort of learning about the civil rights movement from him, learning about art from you know, all these characteristics, all this history, all this heritage that was candidly more in the background when you were coming up as a player. And you mentioned this in your book, the famous Jordan line about Republicans by choose to even in your transition, And I had forgotten about this until I read it in the book. You spoke at the Democratic National Convention. You know, you have become close with the Obama's and as has your mom. You're much more politically outspoken, and players now take it even a step further and maybe intern with social media and whatnot. How do you interpret all of that and what's the right sort of balance to to take when it comes to activism and political activism for an athlete. Well, if you look over you know, the last sixty years in the role that athletes have taken as it relates to activists, and you think of Bill Russell, Kareem Muhammad Ali. Our country at that time was was obviously going through a lot and was in the midst of changing and transitioning, and so they were speaking to what they were experiencing, even as superstar athletes. A lot of people like to say my era in the nineties, we we we failed, but a lot was happening in sports and there. First of all, the money that was being made was extreme. Also, the access to information was not like it is now this young generation, I think the digital age that we're in social media, the sharing and exchanging of what's happening not just in your own backyard, but what's happening all over the world. I knew it was a game changer two thousand I think this was the right year, two thousand and ten. Maybe I don't know the exact date exactly year, but I had Twitter, and we had I guess captured and ultimately I think killed Osama bin Laden and I found out about it on Twitter. And I remember in that moment and I was new to it and trying to understand it. But I told my wife, I said, wow, this is when years ago you would have danned rather or you know, breaking news on major network and here we are on Twitter finding out this information. And so to me that was that was a sort of a change in a lot of ways. And so this generation who all they know is the internet, how to deal with social media, so they had they had the access. If I played in Detroit in the nineties and something happened not far away in Cincinnati, Ohio, I could dig for it and really look and research. But you know, unless it was on the news or it was reported, you know, you really didn't know. You were kind of unaware. And and so now this generation, I applaud them, Um, I applaud our league for we're embracing athletes, sticking out uh and talking about issues, talking being critical about the world we live, being critical about our league, you know, being critical about everything. But you know, you have to be willing to adapt and adjust over the years. And I think successful organizations, successful businesses, successful leaders I think to have longevity are willing to do that. And I think our league accepts that and our players lived that and demonstrate that, and it's something we're proud of. As we wrap up, it occurs to me, having having read the book, you know, there are so many clear through lines and in terms of your ambition, your motivation, tenacity, etcetera, through injury, all of those things, and there was a pretty clear like north Star throughout you know, whether it was, you know, going to the right college, getting to the league, achieving the league, you right about, going to the All Star Game, playing in the you know, Olympic, things like that. What's your north star is a business man? You know, I'm still trying to figure it out, you know, I think I think we um. I've been retired now since two thou and I think sometimes UM, in retirement, you have to try a number of things to figure out what you like, what's your passion, what's you're good at maybe not good at? UM. And I do think in the process of writing the book, I came to the realization that because you have to live in your past and you have to attack certain things that have happened throughout your life, or at least UH be willing to unpack them. And I do think that. And I've done a number of things, and I'm grateful for him, and I enjoy everything, but I think the void of not seeing my career all the way through and on this awesome trajectory early on and then that being derailed. Yeah, I came back and I had fun, and I you know, appreciative and grateful for that, but not seeing it all the way through has given me this obsessive thirst and hungry to achieve. And I think the lesson and thing that I've learned here is that I can't say yes today everything. And I think at times I've tried to do everything and I've run myself racket. And and so I'm like taking inventory right now of my life and like, Okay, I have a lot on my plate, and why and why do I feel this urge to achieve? And I think a lot of it is not fully uh coming to terms with my career and some of the things that unfortunately happened during my career. So how do you so what do you do next? But what do you do to solve that problem? That's the Yeah, that's the next book. But I mean, I think, I think so, you know, I mean, look, I apply a lot of the values and principles that I learned from Coach k that I learned throughout my basketball journey in the next chapter in the life I'm living now. And you know, in ownership with the team in the USA basketball, working with others, managing success, handling failure, sacrifice, all these intrinsic value, these values that are necessary for success. I I wholeheartedly believe they transfer and carry over into other aspects of life. That's why Coach K gets like a million dollars to give a speech at a well, not a million dollars, but it gets a lot of money to speak at a corporate event because people are fascinated by team building and leadership and we live it sports. There's immediate results for the whole world to see and judge into critique. A lot of times in business it's like sawing wood and over time you might get those results. But building team, collaborating with others, having a collective responsibility, that's all sports, team sports, and really that's business as well as people and talent. Grant Hill, so good dispense in time with you. The book is game. Thanks, We'll be back next week. Until then, you can find this on the Bloomberg Terminal, website and app or wherever you get your podcasts. We love it if you took the time to rate and review the show on Apple podcast so more listeners can find us. And you can find me on Twitter follow me at Jason Kelly News. You can also follow Bloomberg podcast at at podcasts. The franchise is produced by Stacy Wong, the head of Bloomberg podcast is Francesco lev Thanks for listening, See you next time.

Everyone, Welcome to Bloomberg's where it's real to here from Grant Hill in just a few minutes. He's got a new book out. It's called Game. Speaking of Game, let's talk about the state of pro basketball. Vanessa Perdomo. We've been looking at the NBA the w n b A two really interesting seasons, one finishing up, one underway. The n b A ratings are up, but kind of like we're still trying to figure out what this season really means. Right, we don't know what that really means yet. Right, ratings are up from one, but like we were still dealing with the COVID protocols, still dealing with less fans of the games, still dealing with all of that. This is the first season where things are back on track. This is the first time they played in June since two thousand and nineteen, you know, the playoffs, so it's the you know, audience is there obviously, and it's great to see the numbers go up, but what does it mean exactly as far as growth of the game overall in the last ten years, it feels like we're seeing a game on both sides that is in transition. In many ways. You've got stars. Everybody loves Lebron, but Lebron probably only has you know, one too, maybe three more seasons left. That seems like an outside bet to to think he's going to be around for that long. Steph Curry still going strong. Um, but you do have this new generation of players coming up that's bringing some new energy. If you think historically about the NBA, it does go through these moments of inflection. Brand Hill, who we're going to hear from later on, he was part of one of those as well. I'm excited for the for the new stars, the Jaws and the Anthony Edwards that you know, to really sort of get their due and start to define their own league, right because right now they're not thought of as the superstars of the league, but they really are already superstars when you consider how well they are branding themselves, how how big of fans them they really already have. And I think it's really exciting that there's there hasn't been a sort of oh here's the long but Tom throw to the next generation like they're already there. They're already beating there. Jason Tatum and you know, sweeping KD and the Nets. You know, so it's already there and it's really exciting. And I think that that's what the league was built on, right. The league was saved by Magic and Bird because of their stardom, because of their rivalry. So and and then against they've buy MJ and you said Grant Hill and that era. So it's it's always about the superstars of the league. And I think there's always this worry Lebron's gonna leave eventually, you know, I mean, he can't play here. You know, he says he's gonna play until whenever he's you know, his son comes in the league, or whenever he can, which I do believe he can because even though I didn't make the playoffs, s he's still playing great. But you know, at least there wasn't some sort of lull, because that's what the NBA doesn't want, right, you can't have that. And the the great thing about the people you're talking about, John and Anthony Edwards, they're coming for um like small markets right there there, in these small market teams that it's it's great to see that. And you see Jana staying at Milwaukee, which is amazing. So it's not just the Lakers, who are you know, doing great things or just the warriors, you know. So that's the other exciting part of it. And meanwhile, I feel like there's a lot of economic tumult to some extent, but also a lot of opportunity on the women's side. We were talking before we came on air about an interview cat Engelbert, the commissioner, gave just a few weeks ago about potential expansion the w n b A. It feels like it's at a critical moment twenty five years in. There's a lot of expectation that they're finally going to turn the corner, finally about to get over that hump. But it's this weird hump that years the NBA they were, you know, about to be bankrupt. So they're actually doing great. You know, they have the seventy five million dollars of capital fundraising that they did this year, and it looks like they're right on the precipice of expanding the league, which is something that people have been wanting for a long time. You haven't had a new team since two thousand and eight in the Atlanta Dream, So I think that it's going to happen, will it? She said in that interview with the Athletic could be as early as which would be perfect. You know, you have coming off such a big March Madness. People want to see women's basketball and they want to see it now, so hopefully you know that's where we're going. I'm glad you brought up March Madness because we're gonna get to our conversation with Grant Hill, and I know it's going to come up because he played four years at Duke. The college game for both the men and the women is largely going to inform what the pro leagues look like and and I l is different. All of it's really different. So I'm excited. Yeah, me too. I mean, I mean, I think it's like the perfect time right now, especially when you're thinking of the business of basketball. They're building themselves as stars in college and they're able to profit off of it. So one you'll see less people going broke by the time they're in their twenties. You'll see bigger stars, you'll see bigger fans. People are going to carry with them for a long time. Page Bookers has been you know, famous since she was in high school really, but people followed her at Yukon and they were like, she's not in the w n b A game right now, so it's like when she gets there. Hopefully when she gets there, there will be other teams for her to join and it will be really exciting time, very interesting moment of inflection all around the world of basketball. So let's turn to a guy who knows a lot about that, and my interview was Grant Hill. So Grant, it's really nice to see you. Congratulations on the book it's called Game. We're going to talk about that at length, but I want to start by asking you about the state of basketball. I mean, you see it from all different perspectives as a former player, as the head of USA Basketball, as an owner of a team. How would you describe it the business of basketball right now? I think it's as exciting as ever. The game is global. We're spreading our wings all over the globe. Africa, the NBA Africa's was just unleashed last year. I think now we're in the midst of an exciting playoffs. Um, we didn't have a Lebron James like we've used to having in the playoffs, but we still have had great excitement. I think the ratings Game one was as high as it's been. In the last four years, we've seen an introduction of you know, new young talent emerge in our game, and so leadership from the league offices. I think we have incredibly successful and engaged owners in our league now. I think, you know, the diversity we have. I think half of our coaches now are African American. Like, it's just we're the most progressive UH sports league I think in the United States. UH. And we're continuing to grow our business and grow interest all over the world. So I think we're As someone who's been around it and involved in different roles since it's hard to believe has been that long, I'm really excited about where we are and also what's in store as we move forward into the future. We're gonna go backwards in time a little bit. But but take me back to coming into the league in ninety four, because it was a different league than it was at a in some ways a similar moment of inflection. You know, you had some stars of the of the eighties and early nineties sort of rolling off as it were. You came in with a class of really exciting players. What was different about then versus now? Well, first of all, the eighties was an important, uh a decade for the league. Magic Larry Bird, Lakers, Celtics. You couldn't script those rivalries and those championships they won. And I think we really the league built itself. David Stern sports marketing genius. I think cable television was starting to emerge, like everything was sort of starting to happen. Then this guy named Jordan's uh you know, emerged in the late eighties early nineties, the Dream Team. You know, now you're growing and and sort of showcasing these talented players all over the globe. So all this was happening prior tremendous amount of momentum during that you know, fifteen years stretch, the growth of the league and the success and popularity. And then incomes this this you know, this kid from Duke with a bad haircut, and uh, I emerge at a time where things were just taking off contract it was reflected in player contracts, marketing deals, opportunities which I was able to benefit from. So I came in at a really uh important time. There was also a bit of a void that was Jordan's first retirement. Who was gonna next carry that mantle? I kind of benefited that from that maybe a little bit, maybe a little prematurely, I wasn't quite ready for that kind of responsibility, but but yeah, I mean it was it felt like we were at all time high. And to think in the last plus years, like we've taken it to a whole another level. Now, this was before social media, this was before really even the Internet, and and and and so it was. It was a magical time. And I think a lot of times we kind of refer to that era as sort of the Golden era. The mid eighties to the mid nineties was was an important part, important time frame, I believe for the growth and the success of our league. Yeah, and so let's go not all the way back, but but pretty far back to Actually I am gonna I'm gonna go all the way back to your birth because one of the things I learned in your book that you've talked a little bit about before was how you got your name, which is not a typical story, and also I think illustrates a lot about to where you came from and and sort of what was very formative for you in terms of your parents in their background. Yes, so you know, my dad played for the Cowboys, and Roger stall Back was obviously his teammate was in my parents wedding, so our families were very close. Uh. In anticipation of my arrival, my parents had picked out girls names. And I think they assumed why and how I don't know, but they assumed I would I would be a girl, and obviously I wasn't. And anyone who knows my father, uh, it takes him forever to make a decision. And so for two or three days, I'm in Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, Texas, and um, my name is baby Boy Hill. And so Roger Stallback comes to visit, you know, the baby and mom and family, and is determined to give the baby me a name. And uh, and so we took my paternal grandmother and her maiden name is Grant and so and my dad's middle name is Grant, so sort of keeping it in the family, honoring, you know, my my parents family, my dad's family. Uh. And so I'm grateful I might have been able to leverage baby Boy Hill later as an athlete that could have had a nice room. He's not of babies now and entertainment, and I might have been ahead of my head of my time, but but like a good Hall of Fame iconic quarterback, he came in, took charge of the huddle or in this case, the hospital room, and gave me my name. And as a football fan growing up in the late seventies early eighties in Washington, d C. That was my claim to fame as a cowboy fan, to be able to brag in elementary school that Roger stall Back named me. Yeah, I mean that the weird but okay, as the kids say, right, And so let's talk about your parents, maybe from a slightly different perspective, given that we are here at Bloomberg, which is your business sense, the decisions that you make over time about your career, your education, and even your subsequent jobs clearly are rooted in their guidance in many ways and sort of the template they set. One of the things that you talked about in the book, which I found so interesting, is this notion that your parents success initially was actually unhelpful to you and like and from a credibility perspective on the court, I mean, I'm overstating it, but but tell me a little bit more about that. Well, you know, first of all, I'm an only child of two only children, so we were and we are very close. And I think they were constantly trying to just use whatever, you know, whatever they experience in their careers in business and in sport to teach me and less learned. And so, you know, little did I know that would help me later on as I entered the business of sport in a number of different ways. But they were achievers, they were successful, and I was cognizant and aware of that. And a lot of my peers from different ethnicities, different like didn't have parents who were my mom and dad, and so I was always aware of that. At times, it was intimidating, and I struggled with confidence. I think sometimes those were such big shoes to fill and felt overwhelming during my young years. But in basketball like that doesn't help you, you know, and sometimes people that could be a hindrance, you know. And and the perception of a you know, of a dad who was a professional athlete. Everyone's coming after you. Everyone thinks you can't play, and so you know, I I kind of, you know, use that to my advantage. Uh And and you know, perception steroids, whatever was there. You could feel it sometimes. But you know, the one thing in sports, I say it's the ultimate meritocracy, first of all. And as a parent of girls who are jocks, there's nothing I can do in terms of money, resources, whatever that can make them be successful. They have to go out and earn it. And I was so driven when I was their age and I was young to earn whatever came my way on the playing field or in this case, on the basketball court. And so my parents success that was great, had great advantages, great exposure, great education, lessons learned, still learning to this day. But that doesn't help you when you're on the court and you're at the playground or you're trying to establish yourself. And so I was determined to like carve out my own lane and to do my own thing. And in part maybe why I didn't play football, which was my first love. Not also my dad wouldn't let me play until I got to high school. But basketball, like was it was a chance us for me to achieve and a chance to prove that I could do well. Yeah, well it also and and this could be the subject of an entirely other podcast of you Know Me opening the fact about the fact that are bemoaning the fact that you didn't end up at Georgetown and you ended up at Duke. But we we won't we won't deal that. But let's talk about Duke for a second, because there are a couple of things that are notable about your career there that set you up for where you are today. One is obviously coach k and you write a lot about him in the book, and I've seen you with him on stage, and clearly that bond is incredibly deep and meaningful. But you're also of a generation that went to school for four years and graduated, and that's not the n B A or that's not the the n C Double A and an NBA that we're in right now. How has that How do you look back on on that decision and then the state of basketball today, of which you have a really league important steak in in USA Basketball and as an owner of a team. Yeah, I mean it's hard to think that you know, players, you know, majority stayed in school all four years and a totally different time and it wasn't even like it wasn't even an option like I didn't. It wasn't something that I I mean, there there were some examples of players Magic Johnson after two years, and certain guys that Michael Jordan's was there for three years at North Carolina. But for the most part, you stayed in school, and I like I had fun, Like I would have stayed another year, Like I had so much fun as a student athlete. But you know, things have changed. And um, I think first of all the four years that I was there, we did some amazing things. But there's a connection that I have with that school and I had with my alma mater, and other players of that era I think had with their school, the alumni, the school, the administration of fact, like everybody got to know you think, to follow your journey, and that emotional connection that we have with you have with Georgetown. You know, you get a chance to be and watch that. When guys now are only there for one year, you don't really get a chance to know them and connect with them and feel like like they're one of ours or we're one. You know, we're we're all in this together. And so I think it's impacted intercollegiate sports. And but you know college basketball, uh, the n b A, I mean we've we've been younger, We've become a younger league in the last twenty years. I think we've adapted to that trend when players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady uh skipped college and went right from high school into the NBA. When the league changed that rule to to now a one and done you had to go to college for one year, I don't think we had the resources to support young teenagers making that transition. Obviously there were example bowls, Kobe Garnett, Tea Mac they became Hall of famers, there a legendar, but there are other examples of players who struggle. And so as you fast forward to present day, and I know what the Hawks like. We have unlimited resources. We have people who help with player development on the court, off the court, um and that transition from one year of college, two years of college to now the responsibilities and the pressures and in all of the potential pitfalls that are out there. Uh, we're able to support these players a lot. And I think that's universal across the board in the NBA. So, uh, the times have changed. Were younger, we draft more maybe on potential and what they potentially could become. They're pretty they're pretty darn good, you know, and it's it's amazing to watch and from an economic perspective, you look at something like the changing rules around name, im engine likeness, I mean everything. See i'd say every thing, but a lot of things seem to be changing around the life of a college and a pro athlete. What's the advice that you give, especially from a business perspective, having made that transition into the business world, what's the advice you give to to those players coming through? Well, a lot is happening, you know. Intercollegiate athletics is rapidly evolving, and it's a little it's exciting, but it's also a little scary and and just because we don't know what that's gonna look like, even the n I L it just seems like we've gone from one extreme to the to the next extreme. Um, you know, I think sometimes. Look, I had an issue in college when I tried to buy my jersey in the bookstore and because of the rules, the school couldn't give me a jersey and I had to pay a hundred and twenty dollars from my own jersey, And like, to me, that's it. That still doesn't sit right with me, And not that they're making money off of me, but just fact that I had to pay for my own jersey like that. I didn't quite understand that. But now you have extremes amount of money that certain players, certain athletes are are getting, and go ahead and get as much as you can. It just changes things a little bit. And now the innocence now the relationship with the school. You know, you can almost be looked upon in some ways as an employee. And and so you're not there at the ultimate you haven't reached the destination yet of getting to the professional ranks. I hope that that doesn't hinder that that process for some of these players and change the dynamics in the locker room. You know, one of the things when I went from being a college player to a pro player was now it's a business. Now not everybody necessarily wants to see you succeed on your own team. And now you throw this money around in college, and you sometimes can worry will that be the case in the intercollegiate environment. One of the other big changes that we've seen, you've seen it from multiple perspectives in current day, and you saw it coming through your career is athlete empowerment um speaking out politically. You write in your book about I believe it was your mom's business partner, Cliff Alexander, and sort of learning about the civil rights movement from him, learning about art from you know, all these characteristics, all this history, all this heritage that was candidly more in the background when you were coming up as a player. And you mentioned this in your book, the famous Jordan line about Republicans by choose to even in your transition, And I had forgotten about this until I read it in the book. You spoke at the Democratic National Convention. You know, you have become close with the Obama's and as has your mom. You're much more politically outspoken, and players now take it even a step further and maybe intern with social media and whatnot. How do you interpret all of that and what's the right sort of balance to to take when it comes to activism and political activism for an athlete. Well, if you look over you know, the last sixty years in the role that athletes have taken as it relates to activists, and you think of Bill Russell, Kareem Muhammad Ali. Our country at that time was was obviously going through a lot and was in the midst of changing and transitioning, and so they were speaking to what they were experiencing, even as superstar athletes. A lot of people like to say my era in the nineties, we we we failed, but a lot was happening in sports and there. First of all, the money that was being made was extreme. Also, the access to information was not like it is now this young generation, I think the digital age that we're in social media, the sharing and exchanging of what's happening not just in your own backyard, but what's happening all over the world. I knew it was a game changer two thousand I think this was the right year, two thousand and ten. Maybe I don't know the exact date exactly year, but I had Twitter, and we had I guess captured and ultimately I think killed Osama bin Laden and I found out about it on Twitter. And I remember in that moment and I was new to it and trying to understand it. But I told my wife, I said, wow, this is when years ago you would have danned rather or you know, breaking news on major network and here we are on Twitter finding out this information. And so to me that was that was a sort of a change in a lot of ways. And so this generation who all they know is the internet, how to deal with social media, so they had they had the access. If I played in Detroit in the nineties and something happened not far away in Cincinnati, Ohio, I could dig for it and really look and research. But you know, unless it was on the news or it was reported, you know, you really didn't know. You were kind of unaware. And and so now this generation, I applaud them, Um, I applaud our league for we're embracing athletes, sticking out uh and talking about issues, talking being critical about the world we live, being critical about our league, you know, being critical about everything. But you know, you have to be willing to adapt and adjust over the years. And I think successful organizations, successful businesses, successful leaders I think to have longevity are willing to do that. And I think our league accepts that and our players lived that and demonstrate that, and it's something we're proud of. As we wrap up, it occurs to me, having having read the book, you know, there are so many clear through lines and in terms of your ambition, your motivation, tenacity, etcetera, through injury, all of those things, and there was a pretty clear like north Star throughout you know, whether it was, you know, going to the right college, getting to the league, achieving the league, you right about, going to the All Star Game, playing in the you know, Olympic, things like that. What's your north star is a business man? You know, I'm still trying to figure it out, you know, I think I think we um. I've been retired now since two thou and I think sometimes UM, in retirement, you have to try a number of things to figure out what you like, what's your passion, what's you're good at maybe not good at? UM. And I do think in the process of writing the book, I came to the realization that because you have to live in your past and you have to attack certain things that have happened throughout your life, or at least UH be willing to unpack them. And I do think that. And I've done a number of things, and I'm grateful for him, and I enjoy everything, but I think the void of not seeing my career all the way through and on this awesome trajectory early on and then that being derailed. Yeah, I came back and I had fun, and I you know, appreciative and grateful for that, but not seeing it all the way through has given me this obsessive thirst and hungry to achieve. And I think the lesson and thing that I've learned here is that I can't say yes today everything. And I think at times I've tried to do everything and I've run myself racket. And and so I'm like taking inventory right now of my life and like, Okay, I have a lot on my plate, and why and why do I feel this urge to achieve? And I think a lot of it is not fully uh coming to terms with my career and some of the things that unfortunately happened during my career. So how do you so what do you do next? But what do you do to solve that problem? That's the Yeah, that's the next book. But I mean, I think, I think so, you know, I mean, look, I apply a lot of the values and principles that I learned from Coach k that I learned throughout my basketball journey in the next chapter in the life I'm living now. And you know, in ownership with the team in the USA basketball, working with others, managing success, handling failure, sacrifice, all these intrinsic value, these values that are necessary for success. I I wholeheartedly believe they transfer and carry over into other aspects of life. That's why Coach K gets like a million dollars to give a speech at a well, not a million dollars, but it gets a lot of money to speak at a corporate event because people are fascinated by team building and leadership and we live it sports. There's immediate results for the whole world to see and judge into critique. A lot of times in business it's like sawing wood and over time you might get those results. But building team, collaborating with others, having a collective responsibility, that's all sports, team sports, and really that's business as well as people and talent. Grant Hill, so good dispense in time with you. The book is game. Thanks, We'll be back next week. Until then, you can find this on the Bloomberg Terminal, website and app or wherever you get your podcasts. We love it if you took the time to rate and review the show on Apple podcast so more listeners can find us. And you can find me on Twitter follow me at Jason Kelly News. You can also follow Bloomberg podcast at at podcasts. The franchise is produced by Stacy Wong, the head of Bloomberg podcast is Francesco lev Thanks for listening, See you next time.