Welcome to BIZ Inbox, your new workplace group chat where we answer the burning questions you definitely can't ask your boss. Writer and podcaster Em Vernem teams up with entrepreneur Michelle Battersby to tackle your trickiest workplace dilemmas.
So what if you find out that your work equal earns a LOT more than you? Michelle’s answer to this viral tiktok might surprise you!
Plus we delve into the DMs and get your real life stories on what your company has offered you instead of a pay rise. Some of your answer are WILD.
If you want your work life issue solved, send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au.
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HOSTS: Michelle Battersby and Em Vernem
EXEC PRODUCER: Georgie Page
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
You're listening to a Mum with mea podcast.
Welcome to Biz in Box.
I'm m Vernon.
I'm a writer and podcaster here at Mama Mia, and I'm as passionate about my career as i am about logging off at four pm.
And I'm Michelle Vatazi and I may run my own company, but I'm all about the clocking off at four pm. To be honest, if you're getting it done, then leave whenever you want.
That's good to know, because I mean, you are sitting here with me instead of running your own.
Coming exactly, I actually need to get out of here.
I'll keep it quick, I'll keep it short and sweet. So every week we answer your burning career questions in like the simplest way possible. We're not going to sugarcoat it. We're going to give you straight answers that you need.
And this week, I have a controversial opinion about something that's trending on TikTok.
Oh my god, I'm so excited, so am.
I know you spend a lot lot of time dooms calling on TikTok.
I do I get a lot of breakup advice videos.
I need to hop over to your algorithm because mine is filled with work dilemmas.
I need to hop over your algorithm.
I actually shouldn't be on yours, so I'm engaged.
Yes, I think yours would just be get more sad. I think yours would just be more entertaining than mine I wanted as well as that. I need to skip out of the educational feed, is what I'm saying. Anyway, I want to show you this video and I want to get your thoughts on it.
The person that was hired is like my equal in my department, so we like co lead a department. He's getting paid twenty five thousand dollars more than me. Twenty five thousand dollars more than me. To be clear, we're both directors. We just lead two different branches of the department. We have the same level of experience, we have the same job like role clarity, like we're literally equal. We have one person who we report to, and she's getting paid twenty five thousand dollars more than me. Before her, her predecessor her left last August. She resigned from the role who were making the exact same salary. So when they rehired this person, he increased the salary to be more competitive because they were trying to fill it real quickly without even thinking about renegotiating the salary with me. So now we're both doing equal amounts of work, but she's getting paid twenty five thousand dollars more than me. Obviously, when I found this out, I went to our direct supervisor, who's also fairly new, and I was like, Hey, there's an equity here. What's the plan, Like, are we changing the organizational structure so that like we're not equally here, or are we equalizing our salary? What's the plan? And he's like, I do see you guys as equals. You play the same roles, you're two heads of the same department. But I'm not sure we're going to be able to get you there because twenty five k is a really big increase. I don't even know how process that. You're telling me. You want us to work at the same level, produce the same level of financial results, and I'm getting paid twenty five k less.
Okay, what do you think I feel for this woman? I've been in the exact same position where I was doing the exact same job as someone like, we had the exact same title, we were doing the same amount of work and she was getting paid more than me. And the reason that pissed me off was because, and I know I can say this because I'm confident in it. I knew I was better at the job than she was, and it was one of those situations where people knew I was also better, so they were giving me more work to do, and still I never was able to match her pay. So I feel like it is a fair thing to call out, Like if you're doing the exact same job as someone and you're both doing the exact same things, but you just have to be confident that your work ethic is the same level as well.
Yeah, I think what you mentioned, like, I knew I was better than her. Yeah, how did you know you were better than her?
Because I would always get all the new stuff and it felt like the company didn't really want her to add more stuff to a plate. We had this exact same plate.
The scope of your role was wider.
I started getting more things, and I started working with different teams, and I'd be the one the point person for our team where people would answer questions, and if someone.
Was sick, I'd have to take over that.
It was just like a lot of extra stuff that I was being asked to do that should have actually propelled me higher and being able to get a pay rise, but because my job description was so different to what I was actually doing, it was really hard to fight for that, if that makes sense.
Did you ask for a pay rise? Yes? And how do you go about it? I didn't get it.
I kind of in a bit probably hot headed, I would say, I was quite young as well, Like I was pretty young, Yeah, And I went in feeling just very upset and annoyed, and a lot of emotion came out in that.
I just started crying.
I remember just crying and being so sad. And it was just one of those situations where I think I got like a tiny pay increase, not as much as she was getting paid, and that pay increase just made me feel even.
Worse, probably because of the circumstances and how it came about. Yeah, I think you make a lot of really valid points that are all one hundred percent worth considering in this situation. So your point about being a bit hot headed and emotional, I think that's kind of the first thing I noticed with this individual, Like when you hear someone is paid considerably more than you and you view yourselves as being at the same level. That can really hurt, and it does feel a bit personal, and it's then very hard to go into a pay rise conversation and not let those emotions take over. Easier said than done, But like, the only way you're going to pull off the pay rise is if you can park the emotion and try to get in the mind of your employer. That women said they're both directors and there's a twenty five thousand dollars pay discrepancy. That's a pretty standard salary band top and end if you're at a director level, So like she might actually be at the bottom of the director band and this other person might be at the top of the band. Like to have a difference in salary of twenty five grand a director lene, I feel is actually pretty standard.
But the other person had just come into the business. So she would have also come in with different experience, maybe like more experience or a newer, fresher take for she.
She also could have used her existing salary to negotiate a higher one to come in on. Like, it's much easier to get bigger salaries when you change companies than working your way up in the same company, which does suck, but that's kind of the easiest way to get a big pay rise.
But I just felt like.
In that TikTok, all I really heard her focusing on was that she'd found out someone in the same role as her was paid more, and that because she viewed those roles as being the same, the salary should be the same.
She didn't once talk.
About results or her output, like what she drives for the business. She just spoke about like the job description, like what's on paper and how many people they manage. I think if you're going to try and advocate for a pay rise after finding out someone else's paid more than you, it's actually a good thing to know that the company does have that money to pay you, but they're not just going to give it to you just because someone else walked in and got more. You need to show why you were also worth the same amount. So I would be having a conversation. Can you tell me how output is different, like what does she generate for the company that is different to what I generate and how can I get there?
Coming up next, Michelle, I feel like we need to go back and perv into your DMS So, Mish, I was aggressively stalking your Instagram and you posted a question that I've been dying to ask you about because I need to know these answers. You asked your followers what companies have offered them instead of money? Yeah, and I need to know what answers you got.
Yes, these responses were fascinating but also so good for us to put on blast because when you are in a performance review conversation or you're asking for a pay rise or whatever it is, you also can ask for non financial benefits. So it's so snoopy to see what people get. Okay, some tips I'm going to read out some. A lot of them were visa related, so like handling my wife's green card moved to the US. They paid for twelve months rent for me, Like what, that's wild? A lot of like lawyer fees for visas, daycare, and a gym unlimited paid time off.
Would these be like under the table kind of offerings or will they all be like formal?
I think a lot of them would be formal. Okay, yeah, okay, you're like this.
Okay, this person said they pay for my therapy, paying for my divorce and gave me five grand to get my life going again.
Oh they care? I need to write that down.
Paying for therapy, yes, so wild.
An exec education course at Harvard, and about thirty overseas trips thirty. You need to ask for this one, sorry, Maya. If you don't get this one already, you have to ask for this. Maybe I'll ask as well. I got a beauty budget of three hundred dollars a month since I had to film content for the brand Mea Friedman.
If you're listening, this is our formal notice. I'm giving details. When my room burned down.
My boss rallied the team for donations and matched theirs.
So there's a lot of care and there's a lot of hard here, I think.
And bringing it back to the last episode we did together, that should be the same system for gifting, like everyone put in money and then the CEO matches it.
Yes, you know what. It should be a GoFundMe and it should just all be anonymous. Yes.
Now it's getting a little bit spicy because as I'm scrolling, I'm realizing there's a lot of cocaine.
Cocaine instead of giving them a pay rise, yeah, I mean a bit of partying.
I guess it depends what fuels you like something I like fun, fun not intended.
Oh my god, stop, I've just seen botox. That's a good moon. That could be part of the beauty budget.
Yeah, probably not going to get You can add that to the three hundred Okay, this is coming up a lot egg freezing, IVF Wow, egg freezing and IVF fertility services to the.
Value of one hundred grand.
Oh as one person's there's a lot of rent, visa, fertility, nannies and trips.
Then there's a couple that is cool. So if you're listening to this thinking, I don't get shit.
So what's the benefit for like a company doing these things rather than just giving people a bonus.
Well, here's the thing. Cocaine is not going to pay your rent. That's your true and neither really is a beauty budget.
But it will help you know if you are spending money on those things that makes it feel good. I love the educational ones like courses, exec coaching, business reviews. So actually mentioned a quote in one of our other episodes which was that the best investment you can make is in yourself. So I do think if you're able to further your education or gain access to experiences that's also going to help you command more of a salary in your next role, or help you get a better job wherever you.
Go next, or get the promotion.
So I do think the educational ones are good ones to focus on educational and experiences like going overseas to work on different projects. But then I do think everyone is motivated by different things, Like I do like to ask my team what actually motivates you, because some people are more driven by money, other people are driven by travel, other people are driven by wanting to look.
Good, parties, partying paths.
So it's also just good from a managerial perspective to actually know who you're dealing with, because everyone's gonna, you know, appreciate different things, and some people might have been rolling their eyes at certain things I just read out, but that might actually really mean something to someone else. So I think it's just good to know that these sorts of things might actually be on the table for you. Don't explicitly ask for cocaine, I'll try, But I do think when you're talking about what the company can kind of do for you, it's good to explore education, travel, let your manager know what you're motivated by and see what comes back.
Just keep it legal yeah, hashtag college not cocaine. Thank you so much for helping us clear the biz Inbox. If you've got a work question, please send it our way. You can find a link to submit your questions in our show notes. And if you missed it, Mish early this week, you and so spoke about one of my biggest work frustrations, getting people to actually listen to me when I speak.
M It's going to change the way you email, so good.
Head back into your feed to check that one out. We'll be back in the biz Inbox next week. Bye bye, Mamma. Maya icknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on