Let's be honest...waiting until you feel "ready" to make a career move is like waiting for the perfect weather to start exercising. It's never going to happen, and meanwhile, everyone else is getting ahead. This week, we're diving deep into why learning isn't just nice-to-have anymore - it's career insurance. Our guest Andrea Clark has spent her career helping people adapt fast, and she doesn't believe in waiting until you're ready to grow.

From recognizing when that "mutual value exchange" with your employer has run its course, to spotting signals of change before they become obvious to everyone else. We explore why Andrea invested $3,000 in an AI course back in 2017 (spoiler: it paid off massively) and tackle the biggest blocker to career growth - thinking you need to feel 100% confident before taking action.

What you'll learn:

• The "mutual value exchange" test to know when it's time to move on

• How to spot signals of change 5 years before your industry

• Micro-learning strategies for busy people who think they don't have time

• Why courage brings clarity and how to turn experiments into evidence

• How to align your learning goals with where your business is heading in 2030

Resources:
Future Fit: How To Stay Relevant And Competitive In The Future Of Work by Andrea Clarke
Adapt: Mastering change in four steps by Andrea Clarke

Our BIZ hosts are Lisa Lie - a former Head of People & Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia’s Em Vernem.

Learna is Lisa’s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on Apple or Google Play.

Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here


THE END BITS
Support independent women's media.
Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes - send us a voice note or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain anon! 

HOSTS: Lisa Lie and Em Vernem

GUEST: Andrea Clarke

SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell
AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges

Want $10 + a free month of Mamamia? We've got you.
We're cooking up something exciting and need your brilliant opinions to help us make even better content.
It's just 20 minutes of your time, and you'll get:
$10 e-gift card
1 month Mamamia subscription (or gift it to someone if you're already a subscriber)

Survey here
T&Cs here

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

Let's be honest...waiting until you feel "ready" to make a career move is like waiting for the perfect weather to start exercising. It's never going to happen, and meanwhile, everyone else is getting ahead.&nbsp;This week, we're diving deep into why learning isn't just nice-to-have anymore - it's career insurance. Our guest Andrea Clark has spent her career helping people adapt fast, and she doesn't believe in waiting until you're ready to grow.
From recognizing when that "mutual value exchange" with your employer has run its course, to spotting signals of change before they become obvious to everyone else. We explore why Andrea invested $3,000 in an AI course back in 2017 (spoiler: it paid off massively) and tackle the biggest blocker to career growth - thinking you need to feel 100% confident before taking action.
What you'll learn:
&bull; The "mutual value exchange" test to know when it's time to move on
&bull; How to spot signals of change 5 years before your industry
&bull; Micro-learning strategies for busy people who think they don't have time
&bull; Why courage brings clarity and how to turn experiments into evidence
&bull; How to align your learning goals with where your business is heading in 2030
Resources:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.andreaclarke.com.au/">Future Fit: How To Stay Relevant And Competitive In The Future Of Work by Andrea Clarke</a></li>
<li><a href="https://fave.co/3UDpHIu">Adapt: Mastering change in four steps by Andrea Clarke</a></li>
</ul>
Our BIZ hosts are&nbsp;<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-lie-42b705a1/?originalSubdomain=au">Lisa Lie</a> - a former Head of People &amp; Culture and Organisational Coach - and Mamamia&rsquo;s <a href="https://www.instagram.com/emilyvernem/?hl=en">Em Vernem</a>.
<a href="https://www.learna-app.com/">Learna</a> is Lisa&rsquo;s microlearning app for practical people skills at work. Expert-led lessons to build confidence, solve challenges, and work smarter - in under 7 minutes. Get it on <a href="https://apps.apple.com/au/app/learna-people-skills/id6443828538">Apple</a> or <a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details/Learna?id=user.learnaapp.com&amp;hl=en-AU">Google Play</a>. <a href="https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKymlmzzCYg/?igsh=aXR6ZGN4emQ4bmdk"> </a><a href="https://mamamia.au/3Eli0BR">Sign up to the BIZ newsletter here</a>
<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/biz/ep-1-pay-rise"> </a>THE END BITS <a href="https://mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=quicky&amp;utm_content=mm-birthday&amp;code=TQBIRTHDAY">Support independent women's media</a>. Got a work life dilemma? Send us all the questions you definitely can't ask your boss for our Biz Inbox episodes -<a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960"> send us a voice note</a> or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au. You can remain anon!&nbsp;
HOSTS:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.instagram.com/lisa.lie_learna/?hl=en">Lisa Lie</a> and<a href="https://www.instagram.com/emilyvernem/?hl=en"> Em Vernem</a>
GUEST: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/andreaclarke.co/?hl=en">Andrea Clarke</a>
SENIOR PRODUCER: Sophie Campbell AUDIO PRODUCER: Leah Porges
Want $10 + a free month of Mamamia? We've got you. We're cooking up something exciting and need your brilliant opinions to help us make even better content. It's just 20 minutes of your time, and you'll get:
<ul data-stringify-type="unordered-list" data-list-tree="true" data-indent="0" data-border="0">
<li data-stringify-indent="0" data-stringify-border="0">$10 e-gift card</li>
<li data-stringify-indent="0" data-stringify-border="0">1 month Mamamia subscription (or gift it to someone if you're already a subscriber)</li>
</ul>
Survey&nbsp;<a href="https://survey.au1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_bx9rNtK5YGAnFFI" data-stringify-link="https://survey.au1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_bx9rNtK5YGAnFFI" data-sk="tooltip_parent">here</a> T&amp;Cs&nbsp;<a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/mamamia-and-blinq-research-project-2025-tandcs-1961370" data-stringify-link="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/mamamia-and-blinq-research-project-2025-tandcs-1961370" data-sk="tooltip_parent">here</a>
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

BIZ is a podcast about work and how to make it work for you.

This season, we're promising new wisdom, fresh energy, and zero fluff. Co-hosts Em Vernem (ambitious but efficient) and Lisa Lie (founder of Learna) bring real talk, real hacks, and real experience. No vague inspo, no recycled advice—just smart, straight-up strategies that actually work. Because work is hard enough without having to figure it all out yourself.

Because work is hard enough without having to figure it all out yourself.

BIZ is a podcast about work and how to make it work for you.
This season, we're promising new wisdom, fresh energy, and zero fluff. Co-hosts Em Vernem (ambitious but efficient) and Lisa Lie (founder of Learna) bring real talk, real hacks, and real experience. No vague inspo, no recycled advice&mdash;just smart, straight-up strategies that actually work. Because work is hard enough without having to figure it all out yourself.
Because work is hard enough without having to figure it all out yourself.

Biz 

Why Your Skills Have an Expiry Date (And What to Do About It)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/clips/392f0b02-4011-4ccf-b0a7-b32801895185/transcript

Advertisement