Lance Medow and Paul Dottino discuss some takeaways from the divisional round matchups, talk about the Giants’ secondary, and take calls from fans.
:00 - Giants secondary
18:30 - Calls
27:00 - Free agency and draft
36:10 - QB chat
45:50 - NFL Draft
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Crazy Dogs has a Welcome to Wednesday's edition a Big Blue Kickoff Live presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New York Football Giants phone number two zero one nine three nine four five one three. You could also stay anti social and hit us up on Twitter or social media hashtag Giants Chat. As a reminder, you could join the on tuning into the archive as well of the show, as our entire podcast network is on the Giants Mobile app, podcast platforms everywhere and at giants dot com slash podcast. He is Paul Theatino. I'm Lance Meadow quoting Randy Quaid. Boys and girls, I am back, and it's good to be.
How we doing. I am so glad to say this is not a repeat of an old show. This is indeed a new show. Let's see January the twenty second twenty twenty five, and by your appearance today, it now puts you one full step ahead of Jimmy Hoffa, who has yet to reappear.
Well, you saying that I have superhuman powers, that I'm able. I don't think that's again about swamp Land you're saying, indeed for New Jersey. Okay, we'll leave it at that. For you youngsters, you could read between the lines and maybe google that at a later time. Paul would be more than happy to give you a history lesson moving forward here on the program. But it's good to see you you too, sir. I should reintroduce myself. I'm Land. Hello, Yes, thank you so much. Here's it. It's good to see him, and look forward to interacting with our usual suspects as we move forward here for the next sixty minutes. So a lot that we want to delve into and cover over the course of this program. We've got some giants news indeed respect to the coaching staff, Paul, so we'll get into that off the top. And then we had a busy weekend across the NFL landscape with respect to the divisional round, so Paul and I will provide some takeaways. Curious to hear your feedback as well. So let's start with the news of it, and that's with respect to the Giants coaching staff. Man parted ways with Jerome Henderson, a long time presence on the coaching staff, and now the new secondary coach and defensive passing game coordinator is going to be markwan Manuel, who played in the NFL for eight seasons from two thousand and two to two thousand and nine as a dB. He's been an assistant coach, he's been a defensive coordinator in the league going back to twenty twelve. A wee could get into some of the coaches that he's worked under, and the transition is not going to be much of anything because he's been with the Jets Paul for the last four seasons is their safeties coach, mainly under Robert Salaz. So now he comes over to a different part of New Jersey, same stadium, and really has the task of trying to help develop what still is a young secondary well, I.
Think the interesting part, and of course every roster is different, so we don't want to say that automatically he will have the same success working with the Giants dbs as he did with the Jets, But in each of the last three seasons, the Jets were in the top five in terms of allowing fewest passing yards in the National Football League. That's a good sign. Prior to that, he was with the Eagles, we know what their secondary has been like for the most part. I think that that year in twenty twenty year it.
Was twenty twenty.
Twenty, they were middle of the pack.
Well, that was a down year for the a down year for.
Them, no doubt. Prior to that, I think the thing that sticks out for me, not necessarily his couple of years or three years with the Falcons, but that he spent a number of years on the staff of the Seattle Seahawks. Now we all know how Seattle over the last fifteen years has usually had a very physical defense, a very effective defense, and of course the legend of the Legion of Boom will always survive in Seattle. So that he was there with that group too, Yes, yes, So you know there's a lot about his background that would certainly be enticing.
No, I'm completely with you, and I think what's also attractive is, and you were hinting at this, the coaches that he's worked under, So for example, you brought up Seattle. Okay, he was there with Pete Carroll, he was there with dan Quinn, and then he went with dan Quinn to Atlanta, where he started off as an assistant, then took over his the defensive court.
They didn't have a lot of bodies there.
No, they did well. The problem with Atlanta, in fairness to him, is they had no pass rush. So you know, Paul, you don't have anybody up front. I remember, you gotta go still back, and not to get off topic here, but you've got to go back to the days of John Abraham in Atlanta the last time they had a legitimate, consistent pass rusher. I know they acquired Matt Judah, but you know, even he had some mixed results the past season, so that tells you all you need to know. But he was with also a young secondary.
You're gonna go Claude Humphrey by the way, Well.
I wasn't gonna go that back far in time. I'll let you date yourself on this program. I don't go necessarily in terms of those archives, but your point is still well taken in terms of what I was hitting on. So dan Quinn, as I mentioned, and then Doug Peterson in Philadelphia. We talked about the Jets. Also, look at the coaches he's been exposed to. When he was a player. He was with Marvin Lewis and Cincinnati. He was with Mike Holmgren in Seattle. He was with Mike McCarthy and Green Bay John Fox former Giants defensive coordinator. He was within Carolina, Mike Shanahan in Denver. So I mean, once again, we're not saying that this means he's gonna snap his fingers and do wonders. The point is, though this is not his first rodeo, He's all's been around the block a few times, and I think he's been exposed to also, not just different coaches, but different schemes. And remember he's now walking into Shane Bowen. He doesn't have history with Shane.
Does not You know that I know of?
No, Well, I don't think they know. I didn't see them cross paths.
No, I don't see it. I don't think he's got any crossing paths with Dabele either.
Correct, I did not see that either. Well, you look at Dable wasn't in Seattle, and Table wasn't in Atlanta, and Table wasn't in Philadelphia, and I didn't see anything in terms of when he was a player. But the point is, how many times have we seen a dB coach another assistant. You come in under a different umbrella, and now, all of a sudden, the way you work previous, you now have to teach some different fundamentals because of what the coordinator ahead of you is calling for within the parameters of what you're running.
Well, I think again, the overall take from this is that he's got an awful lot of experience, a wide variety of experiences, and most importantly, probably some very positive results from those experiences that gives him at least a step forward when he comes here and he talks to the Giants and they decide that they're going to hire him. He's got a very accomplished resume. I don't know how many other people they may or may not have talked to. Let's make that clear. We don't know that, but it's hard to imagine that this guy's resume didn't impress as soon as he walked through the door. I think that's pretty clear. And as far as the Jets are concerned, they're in upheople right now. They don't have a GM. They don't have a head coach, so any of the guys on their staff who may truly be worth something to keep, well, those guys are gonna say a bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush.
Thea to go, Yeah, why would just stay and run the risk that the new coach doesn't retain your serve exactly? It makes no sense.
So it's not an indictment on him at all that he's getting away from the Jets. It's probably that he just saw an opportunity. They're the guaranteed deal. I'm taking it.
Yeah, absolutely, And once again he doesn't have to uproot. I don't know his family situation. I don't know what's pretty convenient. You're staying in the state, right and you just maybe changing the parameters in your vehicle in terms of how you get to the facility. So from that standpoint, I would say it's a big win win situation. The other thing that I think is important to note, and this is not necessarily the endull be aal when it comes to assistance. Jerome Henderson of course played cornerback, but I think it helps Paul that you now also have a new positional coach that played in the secondary. I think there is a level of relation between the current players and listening to somebody that's been in those circumstances. I'm not saying it's a must, but I don't think it's a detriment. I don't think it hurts that now they're going from one guy that played the position to another guy as he assumes the same role.
Well, I think what I'm more curious about right now, and it's maybe the only question that I have this morning, after Jeremy Fowler was the first one from ESPN to make the announcement, I think, and by the way, the Giants have not I don't believe.
Yes, they have not being official as of yet, so we want to be careful they all according to reports. But I think the thing that I'm asking myself this morning is that the Giants have gone in the last few years with a safety's coach, with Trier and Henderson as the corners coach. The way this was presented.
By Jeremy Fowler of ESPN is that Manual's going to be the defensive backs coach. So are they going from having two secondary coaches to having just one voice, which you know it would be a change I don't know. Are they going to maybe hire an assistant defensive backs coach to take some of that low off of Manuel's plate, or are they just gonna say, hey, you know what, this is your unit, do what you need to do with it. Hey, folks, I know I'm dating myself again, but when I started out, you had like six assistants on the Staffah, now there's like twenty five.
Time has changed, Yeah, twenty five. Sometimes there's even more.
So you know, who knows. I don't know what their plan is there.
It's a fair question, but I mean he's got experience coaching an entire defense, so if they want to have him shoulder the entire load of the secondary, I don't really think that's as big of a transition. And Henderson was also the passing game coordinator on the defensive side, so that he took on in addition to working with the corners, so there was a little bit more on his plate from that standpoint. And maybe part of the rationale, just to expand on what you're talking about, Paul, as to why maybe they're not gonna split it, is they do look at previous years and they say, hey, maybe it's better this season we have one consistent voice. We have one guy talking to the safe in the corners, especially if you're gonna have some safeties that play in the slot and a corner that you use deep. Depending on what Bowen decides to do, is he tweaks the scheme entering year two, and depending on that, they may say, Hey, it's better to have right one voice in the room as opposed to multiple voices. I'm sure if you're Brian Dable and you're Shane Bowen, it's not a matter of revamping everything. It's a matter of Okay. Where was also the communication not ideal in twenty twenty four And what I mean by communication, Paul is I'm talking about what was not crystal clear to maybe our players during the week when we were implementing the game plan as it went from the defensive coordinator to the position groups. Because remember in the NFL, you spend more time with your position coach than anybody else on the coaching staff. So I mean, this is not one of those things. Oh, we're just talking about it, and we're going through the motion for the sake of going through the motion. Those corners in safeties. If it does work out that way, they're going to see a lot of more con madual So that's number one. And then number two the communication during the course of the game when you're substituting personnel Paul, who was the guy that made sure everybody was in Was it the corners and the safeties on an island? Was it one guy doing that? I mean, those little nuances I think are clearly worthy of discussing. Over the course of the last season.
Whatever the discussions were between Joe Shane and Brian Dable and John Marra, going back a few weeks ago, it was quite clear the number two priority on John Mara's list when he talked to the media was that I was tired of seeing offenses go up and down the field against our defense. So something was going to have to change, whatever it was going to be, whether it was going to be players, which I'm sure there will be some player changes too, but there was not going to be status quo now. To be fair, just so that I'm clear on this, if you look at our stats from this past year, when I when I say I'm talking about the NFL NFL our stats, Giants actually did a really nice job against the pass. They were only ninth in passing eighth and passing yards allowed ninth in terms of passing touchdowns allowed. So they were pretty high on both of those lists and the top third top third quotient. Uh, but it's because teams ran well.
That's why I was gonna say game impacted that.
Game flow really did, and teams had leads on the Giants most of the time, and they were able to run the ball and control the narrative and milk the clock and basically bludgeon the Giants into I don't want says into submission, because the Giants fought hard, but they was offling so far behind that there was nothing they could do. So the numbers are deceiving. But until the last game of the year, I bet you didn't know this one. The Giants did not give up a one hundred yard receiver until the Eagles game, the last game of the season, you know, And I get it right. There was some big plays that were mixed in throughout the course of the year. No one is denying that a number of them were busted coverages, either mental mistakes by players or flat out physically busted coverage where a guy slipped, the guy fell, guy didn't get to where he was supposed to be on time. There were a number of those, and they were littered throughout the course of the season, and that stuff can't happen, not if you expect to win more games this year. That can't happen. You got to tighten that stuff down. Well.
I think game flow once again, I would emphasize as a contributing factor to what you're talking about, because I think teams got to the point where they didn't need to force feed one guy, in particular with respect to your stat about the one hundred yarder, given the fact that if you're upcomfortably in the second half, you're not really feeding once again the number one wide receiver. But the other thing that I think you were somewhat alluding to is the fact that secondary players are also critical in stopping the run. Let's not forget about that, and that to me is another element in play here for markwan Manuel to come in. It's not just a matter of shoring up those big plays that you were talking about. Can you get the secondary to help take on the load up front in terms of alleviating the big boys from doing all The two.
Of the Giants' rookies of the secondary, specifically Newban and Phillips were very physical.
Especially because of the slot play, and boy did they love coming down to hit people. But you want that to continue, I guess might.
Absolutely, you certainly do. Now. The one interesting thing here, and somebody mentioned this to me earlier on my Twitter page this morning when the news came out. I had mentioned the fact that Manuel coach, Manuel had been on some successful secondary staffs with the Jets, and the one tweeter came back at me and said, oh, that's probably not good for Pinnock, because Pinnock was let go after his first year with the Jets and then came the Giants and of course flourished and became a real NFL starter.
But they liked him the Jets.
Well, my thought was either A, you got to remember the Jets had some depth in the secondary at that point, exactly right, So he was kind of caught in a numbers game. B. He was a part time big player with the Jets as a rookie, so sometimes, as we all know, a young player needs to get in the lineup and prove what he can do. And he flourished. You know, Jason Pinnock proved he's a companyentt NFL safety once he got the chance to play. So I would not hold any of that against him, but it's certainly interesting to note that, you know, Pinnock did come from the Jets, and I would think that Manuel at least has some sense, even though he was only there the last three years, and that's when Pinnock was with the Giants. Pinnock had been with the Jets that spring and summer till he was then waived.
In twenty two you're referring to, So he knows him a little bit sure.
And Pinnock is an unrestricted free agent today. Let me just say that because he was on his rookie deal and he wasn't making a whole lot of money, and if if nothing else, the last two seasons particularly, he's not only been very reliable, but he's been incredibly durable, and I'm sure he's going to want to be compensated for that. So for the Giant's sake, I hope that's a guy that they can work out a deal with.
Yeah, Pinnock and Manuel are together in twenty twenty one, so they had a full season together. That was Manuel's first year with the Jets and Pinnock was a fifth round pick that.
Year, right, but he was basically special teams.
Players, correct, But I mean they did have some exposuige and meetings. Yeah, absolutely, so I think that familiarity helps at least when they're evaluating the free agents to determine whether or not they want to bring him back. But I can't emphasize it enough. If you go back, you could even google articles. The Jets' front office was on the records. They did not want to get rid of Pinnock. No, just they had to get rid of somebody. You have to put them through waivers. You can't keep everybody, especially if it's a guy that mainly was playing special teams. They had so much youth in that secondary that they had to make the sacrifice. And the Giants, remember, were an attractive position to claim players, yes, and they needed to turn around the rosters. So that was really the main rationale behind why the Jets pardon ways with Pinnock. It wasn't a reflection of they didn't think highly of him. In an ideal world, if they had extra space, they would have retained him, or they would have had him passed through waivers and not go claim and then put him back on the proplem. The other thing is to something like that.
Pinnock was not like a first round draft pick. He was a fifth round choice. Yeah. So you know that's another thing when teams take into account their depth and okay, can we afford to take a chance and hopefully sneak this guy through. You got a better chance to sneak in a fifth round guy through than you'd do a second round or a first round guy.
I'm sure that their thinking and their lot.
I'm sure it was.
But the old story is Paul, everybody scouting everybody in the draft, right, So just when you think you're gonna pull a fast one, another team says, yeah, you know what, we just missed out on him in the fifth round. Thank you very much, Clay Zacky. So MARCN manual. According to reports, of course, nothing official the new secondary coach for the Giants as well as their passing game coordinator, replacing Jerome Henderson. So we'll open up the phone lines. We'll also get into the divisional round the NFL playoffs some takeaways, because there was a big theme which goes back to the basics of NFL fundamentals in terms of what happened in the Division two, correct, So I think that relates to the Giants and everybody else surrounding the National Football League. But before we open up the phone lines, here reminder that you could check out, of course, the Giants Suttle podcast you could subscribe to that. It features long form interviews with Giants players, coaches, in front office staff passed in present. Plus you can hear for the best analysts covering Big Blue and the NFL. Search for Giants Huddle. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, or you could go to Giants dot com, slash podcast and don't forget if you're on Apple Podcast, leave a five star positive review for all of our Giants podcasts that of course includes right here Big Blue Kickoff Life. As we look to spread the wealth, let's check in with Max in New Brunswick here on BBKL. What's happening to Max? What do you got for us?
H Yeah, I'm doing. First of all, Lance is good hearing from you, and Paul always good hearing from from you, guys. I like your perspective.
Thanks for your interesting things.
Absolutely, So what do you have for us? What's on your mind?
First? A long time listener, I last think last time a call was about two years ago, so I don't get the chance to call in often. I did want to speak about a draft prospect or just different ideas I had. I want to get this prospective. One of them is first run. I don't want to get a quarterback. I just don't feel that the market out the aspects for this year warrants a top pick out you know, our top pick. I would prefer either the as a Travis Hunter, the corner, wide receiver or Carter in the first rounds, second round, maybe a quarterback if one is good enough, or offensive lineman. I will like to know which one you guys would preferring that round, which will be the better prospect then one guy I'm thinking about, would you be opposed to replacing a running back for more depth with someone like Manungai. I know he's has a lot of mouths because he was basically Rutgers entire offense, but he seemed like a really good prospect and possibly repacement for great I just wanted to see what you guys thought about that. And thanks for taking my call.
Okay, Well appreciate the phone call. I don't know where you want to start on that front. Eyes a lot.
I've been talking about this draft now for a number of months. I think you should go because because no, because everybody knows how I feel about this number three pick and the quarterback situation. So I have not with Lance. We have absolutely no idea.
They have not compared notes how we both feel about this.
And I warn you though I have now sold both John and Matt into my philosophical way of dealing with the quarterback spot and the number three overall pick. They're pretty much on board with me, outside of a few back ended tweaks. So you could be the dissenter. You could be.
Well, once again, I don't know your person, I know, so I'm anxious to hear this well. I mean my viewpoint is every day, no, I'm sorry, Pierce, and I had a lot of my plate. Yeah, I'm playing catch up though, you know the archives, you know every day. Yeah, I find a little time for some crumbs before I go to sleep.
And by the way, I have Pierson on most of my side here too. He's got a couple tweaks different, but oh philosophically, but he've been doing a lot of He's even in on the way I'm thinking on this he's in.
Okay, Well, my philosophy is, and I mean it resembles a lot of my thinking in terms of previous conversations Paul that we have had. And I'll start big picture here. Number one, Remember, every quarterback doesn't work out in the draft class, especially those high in the first round. I mean, we don't even have to go that far back to the archives. Look at the Zach Wilson class. Trevor Lawrence is the only one still breathing with his current team, and the jury is still out there. So the Giants, if the first two teams take quarterbacks, which I think they will because they're clearly both in need of that, and let's assume there aren't any moves, that means the Giants need to have conviction, which is the term that you and I love in the room, that whoever is third on their list, whoever is fourth on their list, whatever it may be, that they can envision the environment is right for them to come in and flourish. If there's no conviction, you're force feeding a quarterback on yourself under those circumstances, and I think that's very, very dangerous territory. Now, bo Nicks has worked out nicely thus far this season with the Broncos. Okay, and I'm not surprised well because of Sean Paygdon's track record and the overwhelming experience that Boone Nicks had in college. See that's the outlier here. It's not just is there a third quarterback that you love behind Sanders and Ward, it's how much time has he had on the collegiate landscape. And if you're trying to sell me, Paul on a quarterback that's been a one year starter, that would make me even more worrisome. I think Travis Hunter, if you're talking about impact, bang for your buck, great value, it makes the most sense because he's the closest guarantee that you're going to find for where you're picking. But this is where need, unfortunately in the National Football League, and I'm trying to walk that fine line in terms of what I would think versus the pressure that the Giant's front office is facing, and those things don't always align.
Paul as well know absolutely.
Travis Hunter as it stands right now, would be the most sensible and logical pick because of value. But something tells me because of the huge void right now under center, and depending on how free agency plays out. If they don't love a veteran or they don't want to rank the veteran, it would not surprise me if they sell themselves on number three or number four on the depth chart. That's how I would assess the situation right now.
Well, I think it's really a two prong question because we kind of skipped over the first part by asking you to go right to pick number three. I've tried to sell everybody out there that the free agent quarterback they sign in March is going to have a big impact on how they view the quarterback scenario in the draft.
Oh sure, I agree.
So I guess my question to you, and this may be where we different now because I seem to have everybody else in this room on board with getting a bridge quarterback, a legitimate veteran bridge.
I think you need that whether you draft a quarterback or not. Okay, I would still stand.
Behind that argument. Good, yeah, all right, So are you inanimate and there's a huge need for this? Okay? So now what is your checklist and what is your primary goal in so that bridge quarterback? Give me a thought from the free agents that we know who are available right now, because there may be some guys set free, There may be some guys who are going to be traded, et cetera, et cetera. I get all that, but of the available free agents today, who is your bridge? Why is he? Why is he your top target as your bridge? And how will that affect your decision when you pick third in the draft?
Well, I mean, once again, the reason why to me the bridge quarterback is important is because I'm not a huge fan of throwing the rookie to the wolves, especially if your house is not completely in order, because too many quarterbacks have been negatively impacted. So I would be fine if they want to bring in a young quarterback and have a veteran here help mentor them, and then Paul, we get seven games into the season, they want to make the transition like what Kauughlin did with Eli Manning and that was against Unique because they were five and four at the time with Kurt Warner. Okay, so I'm not making an ideal comparison, but it's not unheard of that eight games in you feel, Okay, the rookie's learned enough, he's been a sponge. Let's get him some experience. They want to do that. That's fine, but you also need to have a quarterback that you feel can run your offense where you are going to be respectable on offense, you're gonna be able to move the ball, and you're not going to be a liability on that side of the ball. So I don't just want to bring in Joe Schmo to eat up spaces.
Money in suret he's got to be good enough to win.
Some games without a doubt. And the two guys that right now I think are logic throwing money aside that you should look at and entertain.
Well, money's got to be part of it.
Though money certainly has to be part of it. But I think once again, if you're going to go in the direction of a rookie quarterback, remember the leeway in the salary cap should be there. If you have to spend a little bit more on a one year deal. Remember you're not locking the guy up for ten years. Talking about one year deal ball just before an option for a second.
We get to your pick. Yeah, the estimate according to over the Cap is that the Giants will have a little bit more than forty million in free agency to spend this year.
Okay, well that's pretty that's the estimate, that's good space and they do need some other spots too.
Sure, so how much are you willing to spend on the QB in twenty twenty five, because that really kind of needs to be determined before you know what price range you're looking at for the quarterback.
Well, I'm going to bring up a quarterback to me, the ranges like what Sam Darnold got this past season would be my range. The one year deal he.
Got, okay, but he's going to ask for a big raise.
Now he is. But I also think there may be some skepticism based on how the season ended. Not going to say that nobody's going to want to spend on him. So if you want to say, okay, he gets bumped up into more in the twenty million dollar range, you know that's a lot to spend on a quarterback.
Want more than that. I think Also, he's not thinking of himself as a bridge. He's thinking of himself as a start. Well.
But the point is he may also turn down teams because he doesn't want to be the gap guy. He may want to go to a team where they're offering him an opportunity right to That's what I means for multiple years, but he's not taking a bridge. Also, beggars can't be choosers, say well, I mean, once again, we don't know how the markets can play out, all right, So I think that is something that I wouldn't completely eliminate. But Donald and Kirk Cousins because he's gonna be cut by Atlanta.
Those he's not as of today.
But okay, but I mean, let's project those are the two with the most experienced. You want to throw Andy Dalton in, I'll throw Andy Dalton in as well. So I'll go to three. One of those three to me, can help you win games, stay functional on offense, and Donald would be the exception of breaking open the piggy bang. I think the other two you can get away with financially speaking.
They will be cheaper and they will understand what a bridge quarterback is to do. Okay, I am totally on board. Philosophically, we are unanimous. However, my number one bridge quarterback is Garoppolo.
Okay, I'm just worried about the injury history with.
I get it, I get it. Andy Dalton is another guy though, who was on my radar.
So Andy did a nice job. I mean, even when they bench Bryce Young in Carolina.
I could absolutely potentially.
And mentored Bryce Young. That's the other thing that's attractive about Andy. He's been in this circumstance before.
It's very important that the bridge understands what a bridge is meant to do, yep, because otherwise you're going to have a problem in that locker room.
See Darnold, to your point, is in the period of his career where you know he wants to make a statement and get back in the fold of being a guy that could be the man for a team as opposed to hold somebody's hand. Kirk, I think may have seen the light this past season and Age getting up there not as mobile that he may have to settle for. Okay, I'm gonna be a bridge guy now as opposed to a guy that's going to be the quarterback for the next three years. And Andy has already fully accepted that. You don't have to sell Dalton on this. No, you do, not a problem at all. So two of the three. I don't think you have to go overwhelmingly out of your way to convince them.
Well, cousins, In all likelihood, if he gets released by the Falcons, we'll have that offset language because he's guaranteed some money from Atlanta this year.
Correct, So much like what happened.
In Pittsburgh with Russell Wilson.
By the way, because of what Denver had to give him.
Yeah, so he can take a lot less from his new team because the Falcons are gonna have to pay a lot of his freight. So that does make Cousins somewhat more attractive than otherwise. Now, Russell Wilson, by the way, if he does not come back to Pittsburgh, is another potential available guy on that shelf.
Sure, and he did once again speak with the Giants before he went to pitt did so they brought his name up before to preliminary conversations. And also, you know, Brian Dable, I think that Joe Shane have to ask themselves. Remember, Cousins no mobility, So if you've got issues with the offensive line, he's not making up for that. Okay, he saw that in Atlanta, So that may not be attractive anymore. You know, That's why you take it. Here's the pool and all of a sudden you look at different criteria. It completely changes. Donald has mobility, but the money may not be where you want. I think Russ though Russ like putting Donald territory financially speaking, well, that's kind of why he did this season.
I kind of shied away from Wilson because I think he believes he's still a starter. Yeah, and consequently, not only is he probably not going to be happy being a bridge, but I think he's also going to want more money than what a bridge would want.
Well, especially since you don't have the offsetting language anymore correct, so that changes the dynamical.
Again, if circumstances are right, I would talk to him, I'd feel him out, but I don't think that's going to be a fit.
I want to throw out two more guys that are less experience wise, just food for thought, Dustin Fields and train Lance. Do you say to yourself, Okay, we bring in a bridge quarterback that still has the potential to turn the corner and maybe be the guy in competition with Let's say you do use the third overall pick on a QB, but it's not the number one or the number two guy, and you have a healthy competition between a young veteran and the new beat. That's another thing that I think is worth entertaining, because you're bringing in somebody that is not at the tail end in their career, has been in a variety of offenses. Fields has the mobility, has not had the structure and the stability train Lance same thing.
I mean.
Fields is definitely somebody I would think about.
And those two guys.
I don't see them commanding heavy money where somebody is going to be blown away by what they've done, especially this past season, and you're going to be having overwhelming competition from a financial perspective, I would keep those two names on the back burner.
I've kind of had feels on the periphery of my radar.
Lance.
No, I'm not a tree Lance guy. Was not a Tree Lance guy coming out of school, and I would not even talk to him.
Understand though there's injury concerned with him too, But.
Justin Field's interesting. If you want to go in the direction of what you said, sign a younger guy with the thought that he has a higher ceiling, if you're going to go down that road. I would not go down that road myself, but if you went down that road, he would be the top name on that list. If you're going to go there, I can't because the way I'm looking at twenty twenty five is that you already know that ownership has expressed a very very small amount of patience forms. You cannot, in my opinion, sign a young veteran who's got a very small resume and has the potential to come in here and maybe win three or four games. That's poison to me. You've got to do better than that. You've got to be more competitive than that. You've got to be able to win more games than that to at least keep the boat afloat. I need a guy who's got a much healthier resume, more experience, and more victories and the ability to handle the big bright spotlight. That's why Jimmy G for me Again. I'd have to get my medical staff to check him, but he checks the most boxes for me of any of the Bridge quarterbacks.
No, and I'm with you, it's just I would be very very scared about him holding up durability wise player. And that's I mean down this road. And I was a huge Jimmy G fan, but it got to the point where how many times ad I gonna go to bat for a guy that can't stay on the field. You know you're better off going just fields even if he exposes himself to additional hit and and I've had.
A number of football people have said to me they love my idea. A lot of the fans on this show do not, And that's fine, but yeah, exactly. But here's the thing. As much as I have him at the top of my list, my medical staff, if I'm the GM, my medical staff has got to give me the okay on him. They don't give me the okay on him, then he's off the list. It's that simple, and I think that's important for everybody out there who's been coming at me and saying, well, Jimmy G's got a lot of injury history. I get that. I'm assuming, you know, if he's number one on my list, I'm bringing him in and I'm telling my medical guys check on him. If you give me the thumbs up and you think he's okay, he's worth the risk. And That's where I'm going. But I appreciate the thought. You still got to vet him out.
Oh certainly. I mean listen, that goes for any player at any position, but specific a guy with that level of baggage. So those are just a few ideas in terms of the direction that the quarterback can take the Giants with respect to the bridge position. Let's reopen up the phone lines. As we move forward here on Big Blue Kickoff Live, we check in with Lou in Pennsylvania. Lou, welcome aboard. What do you got for us?
Hey, guys, say John its.
Clients, But it's okay. I've been cold, worse, no worse?
Yes, Hi, yeah, So hey, guys, could you hear me?
Yeah, we hear a lot of clear all right, when you when you operate correctly with our.
Names, locations with the QB. I know you, guys said Jimmy, I'm scared because he's not mobile. He doesn't do too of the RBO's injury history. I'll say nobody mentioned his name Trubisky. I don't know if they crossed lines when he was in Buffalo, when he got traded or released from the Bears. Come up on experience.
Yeah, yeah, his name has come up on Trier shows.
Yes, go ahead, he can move, he can move. I think he's a team to the playoff. I know they didn't, so I think Bridge will be a good thing with Trubisky and even Andy Dalton. My thing is what the GM did. He had a QB on on the roster. Daniel Jones. I don't think he played horrible. I think there are more drop passes, and if we call more passes, we will talk about him a little differently. But what dead cap space do we lose by letting him go? Also, the next point is just the line. If we drafted O line, we can draft somebody that played predominantly like left tackle or right tackle and switched them. I think we need to draft an O line and have him played that spot he's been playing his entire collegiate career. And it's just the dead space or whatever dead cap we have from letting Daniel Jones go and even this night putting a franchise in Saquon to trade him out of the division where we could get back something on the back end in conversation, because now I like, do we get anything as somebody else signed Daniel Jones? I don't think so. And Saquon like it hurts me in FPA having to deal with us.
All right, lou Well, listen, I think a lot of people can relate to that. From that perspective, appreciate the focal twenty two million is the disc cap hit? Just to answer that first question, but once again, you threw out earlier based on projection, still in that forty million ballpark, which is still a healthy position to be in despite the dead cap hit. And they knew that going in before they made that decision. Yes, in terms of saving approximately nineteen million under those circumstances as well, but twenty two million. To answer your question, is the first part of the equation.
The caller was interested in running ourpos. If that's a top priority for you, then Marcus Mariota is a guy you have to consider because of his mobility.
Sure, I mean you could do that with Justin Fields as well.
Yes, you could.
So that's why I mean Maria a name. No, well, he's a more of a veteran guy.
Right, Yeah, that comes out of the mobility box, so to speak.
Absolutely, if that's something that they're looking for. But I just the more and more I'm thinking about it, Paul, and I understand that everybody may not be on board. I think back to if you remember when Pat Shermer was the head coach of the Giants. One of the things that he liked his philosophy was have as many quarterbacks as possible in the house to foster competition. Doesn't mean bring everybody off the street. But meaning, if you have two young guys, fine, let the two young guys push each other. So I'm saying to myself, you draft a quarterback at three, you have Fields, who's hungry to reclaim a starting job. I mean, think about it. This is a guy that started off very well with the Steelers this past season. Russ was dealing with a calf injury. Tomlin goes in the direction of Russ. Fields is now sitting on the sideline being a spectator, and hey worked out. The Steelers once again made the playoffs. But I'm sure you ask Fields, he's gotta be itching to get back out there?
Is He not without a doubt?
So that mindset is somewhat attractive, and he gives you the mobility, and he gives you a legitimate investment that could actually pan out. That's why I think that has more attraction than ranting an aging veteran for just one year, which, let's face it, they already did that this past season.
I'm just not sure that a younger guy with a lesser resume is going to guarantee me a competitive nature during the course of the season.
I'm talking about the wins and I need to get.
To know after what's going on here. I need to know this team can be more competitive and get more wins. I don't think rolling the dice on a younger guy like that who has a very small pro resume, really what's my appetite? Very much? But again, if you wanted to go down that road, he's the best name. Now is he sour on Pittsburgh? What if Russell Wilson walks? It's possible that does Field stay?
That's a very fair question.
So maybe he's not available.
Sure, and I'm sure if you're justin Fields, if Pittsburgh's offering you starting job versus Yeah, no, that's something else. That's why this is a very very preliminary conversation. He goes out, we're making assumptions of guys that are going to be out on the market when they could very well be locked up. With respect to the early stages of March, let's head back to the lines. We got Jamal in Big d Jamal, welcome aboard. What do you offer us going on?
Fellas?
Thank y'all for having me.
So I came.
I came with a whole other thought process and conversation. But I like the conversation y'all. Y'all y'all are having. So I want to add to that, to your point about Justin Fields, right, so same Justin Fields was was available into.
Your point.
He is young at the same time he's hungry. I wouldn't necessarily I mean between Russ Fields, I mean I was at this point. I mean, we'll take anybody. We're desperate. What you're saying, you're saying it's preliminary. But but but if I'm Joe Shang, I'm and you have to look at it this way. You have to look who's going to be where. You have to have a tier one, tier two, T three to four group because you don't know what's gonna happen. And I hate to say this, the way we watched the jon't Daniel Jones situation, not having a quarterback behind him prior to I feel like there is no slippery slope for error. So what I would recommend you know, I know you threw us some names I like. I like the Mariota only because he's a division guy. I'm a real big believer. You want to get guys who know who are familiar with the division. So I think he would be decent in that as a bridge quarterback. I know somebody, I know you said, Trey Lance. I'm even open to Cooper Cup. Just somebody has a bridge. I mean he knows not Cooper Cup.
A few passages in his NFL career.
A receiver too, that would be okay, you know, is a really good one.
But Cooper Rush. I know he's not not the RPO type of guy, but he know, once again, another guy who knows the division. He seems to manage well with games when he's with Dallas. I mean he doesn't he.
Doesn't seem to lose a lot of games, you know what I mean.
He kind of keeps them in the float of games. And then my last name, I'm real big on as a bridge quarterback is one of my former players as a backup, Derek Carr, David Carr's brother. You know, I know he's coming off of injury.
But I would of mine.
You know, he's a gunslinger when he's healthy. I know he makes costing mistakes sometimes, but I think he would be someone that can move into that, you know, bridge quarterback type. I did because he's getting older, you have injury history. I will take David Carr. I mean Derek Carr over Jimmy Garoppolo.
I'm a big car guy. You know that if you've listened to this show for years. I love Derek Carr. I thought the Jets should have gone after him instead of Aaron Rodgers. I made that very clear. But I here's the problem with car right now. Number one, you don't know for sure if the Saints are going to move on. Number two, what kind of financial obligations are going to be talking about right bringing in a Derek Carr. I don't think he thinks he's a bridge, nor should he. He thinks he's a starter and he's gonna want that kind of monetry.
But his injury history moves towards that kind of what you are talking about before with some of these other players like Jimmy g and things of that nature. And then moving to the draft, I wouldn't even if we can't get cam Ward or Shador Standers at three, we don't even look at a quarterback at three. We need to get the best valuable player, whether it's Hunter, the d n from Penn State, a beast old lineman, a position of need. Definitely, I know we don't like looking at position of need but we got so many holes we need to But I want to get a quarterback at three. I wouldn't even reached for one at three if it's not in my eyes, if it's not cam Ward, then we don't get them, you know. So even though I like your door, I would love to have your door in a building, but I'm a Dion guy. But at the end of the day, if it ain't cam Ward or your door, I think we need to move on. Get the best of l a player that fits our need at three, and then get and get a mill Row a mir Row are dark. I'm a kid for Ole Mis or Howard, either second or second or third round. And that's my idea of a quarterbacks of what we can do, because I do believe Millrod is more of a project quarterback, but I definitely think within our division he can do some things with the way he runs the ball and things of that nature.
Well, I mean, listen, you got to be able to run regardless of what division you're in it and Jamal will let you go on that point. To appreciate the phone call, I wouldn't necessarily focus solely on the NFC East. I mean, really, in this day and age. You need a quarterback that can move. I mean, when you look at some of these qbs, the sacks they've taken. I mean, look at what the Chiefs did the CJ. Stroud and the crowd's not a statue even and he was taken down more often than not by spags.
More and more people who you listen to now, who have been kind of handicapping the draft for a whole year, are seemingly talking about Milroe as e lite first rounder. Now, yeah, it seems as though if you want to get him, you're gonna have to move up into the back end of the first round. I don't think he's getting to round two.
I'd be surprised as well. And the other thing, once again, whether you agree with the philosophy or not, is the fact that there are a lot of teams of the mindset. You don't know if you're going to be picking this high again, okay, And when you get to the top three sometimes you say to yourself, Okay, if we don't take a quarterback at three and we bring in one of these options we're talking about, Paul, you still need to solve the quarterback position, Okay, that void still exists. No, matter what you want to do, and I understand there may be options in later rounds, but history has proven that when you get in this position, most teams don't take it for granted and usually take a quarterway. I'm just going based on the trends and the thought process around the NFL front office.
And based on that human element that you're talking about. Yeah, maybe the Giants are actually better off in the position that they're in because they have had so many rough seasons lately, and the owner has said basically, I practically out of patience. So maybe in that regard, maybe they're a little bit more fortunate because now it's kind of been cleared up for them that, Okay, twenty twenty five has to be a significantly better season than what happened in twenty twenty four. There isn't just okay, try to doggy paddle, try to run over the hot coals and get to twenty six. No, there's a pretty strong mandate by an owner who says he doesn't have much patience left and if he doesn't feel a lot better about this team this time next year, he won't have any patients. That kind of clears it up a little bit.
No, it certainly does. I guess the other thing, though, and I'm thinking about, is most general managers Paul are of the mindset they want a shot of bringing in their own guy.
Right.
So Shane is in a position now where he has a top three pick. He did not have that luxury, you know. Now, it was his decision to retain Daniel Jones. Okay, they had the flexibility. But what I'm saying is that most general managers, when they're in this position, they say, all right, I'm gonna now hand the keys to the kingdom to the guy that I've scouted an ic fit because there's no guarantee that I'm gonna have the luxury and the opportunity to do this all over again.
If you're the GM, and that is of the ultimate importance to you, Okay, and you don't feel that strongly about this class or let's say the number three quarterback on your board, then you better make sure you signed a bridge quarterback who's going to win games, because he's gonna buy you that extra year of time to get the guy that you may love in twenty six. Yeah.
Well, and that's why I keep going back to it's not one or the other it's both both simultaneously. The bridge quarterback and if you take a quarterback at three are of utmost importance. You don't weigh one more than the other. They both have to be at a point where there's conviction and confidence.
I keep telling people the bridge is monumentally important. There are so many folks who don't seem to think that it is. I think it's even more important. To be frank with you, but be that as it may. We know this Giants team has to be more competitive and win more games in twenty twenty five. We know that for sure. And you better figure out a plan while you're doing all of this stuff as to which quarterback's going to give you a chance to win more games.
Now, on a somewhat related note, as we're talking about some of the quarterbacks that thrived and were able to help their teams win games and make the playoffs, I know we were teasing it. Want to get it in before maybe we squeeze another caller in. The biggest takeaway from the divisional round is turnover differential? Was it not? Paul?
Very ridiculous?
Plus ten for the four teams that won. Now, in fairness, Texans Chiefs had no turnovers, but still Kansas City protected the football and as a result, they wound up winning the football game. And the Lions coughed it up five times, and we saw the Rams twice and what happened with the Ravens three times. That is no coincidence at all.
There are three core things that continue to raise their heads throughout the postseason. Turnover differential play along the line of scrimmage, Dominate the trenches and you're gonna win the game in all likelihood. And then number three, just simply make the routine plays. Okay, you can't have Mark Andrews getting the ball punched out or dropping a ball at the goal line. You can't have you know, Jackson throwing up a ridiculous interception where you know, come on, yeah, no business throwing that ball. And then on another time when he was trying to scramble around in the pocket after a rough snap, he just drops the ball. I mean, you can't. You can't have that. You again, you gotta make all the routine plays, You gotta win the turnover battle, and you have to win the line of scrimmage. You do those three things, my goodness, your calculations of winning a ball game were off the charts.
I'll throw in the other thing, which to me is the icing on the cake, is explosive plays. I mean, the Eagles had a lot of explosive plays, and even them and they had to pick six, they always fell. So that's the other thing. And while it's not the perfect example because the Giants had struggled the year prior, but just to give you an idea where they were able to maybe cover up some of their issues a year ago. The Giants went from and what do I say all the time, just because you do well in opportunistic plays one year doesn't mean all of a sudden you get out flipp it.
We're talking about twenty two when they had a tremendous amount of takeaways.
Well, no, I'm even talking about twenty three and twenty four. Oh, the Giants had twenty three had.
A very good differential plus four twelve plus.
Twelve the eight. Yeah, Paul, that's twenty spots in one season.
And they need even win with that plus twelve the year before.
All right, And that's another reason why I'm gonna further emphasize your point out. You got to take care of the routine.
Yep.
A lot of the teams that actually did not do a good job protecting the football had done it over the course of this season. Case in point, the Vikings were plus twelve in turn over a differential this season. They didn't look like that team when they played the Rams, did they well? Because why, the caliber of competition is different when you get to the playoffs, So numbers are padded a bit depending on who you play during the course of the seventeen games late well.
And this is one of the reasons why when evaluators go through these things, you know they've got to decide, Hey, is that guy a terrific regular season quarterback or when he gets to the playoffs, what's he gonna be?
I mean, he had the factor.
We've had a bunch of guys who are phenomenal in terms of the regular season. Lamar Jackson, Okay Tony Romo, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins have had some of the great regular seasons in the last twenty years at quarterback, put up incredible numbers. But every time those guys got to the playoffs, all of a sudden, they turned it to Clark Kent. Now that their teams do all the things that their teams do other things that also fell and dropped off the table and were not playoff caliber things. Absolutely, that's true, But each one of those guys did not play at their best in the postseason. They clearly had a drop off in their play and when their team needed them the most to maybe bring them out of the quick sand, those guys fail.
All right, let's head it back to the phone lines before we wrap up shop. Here, Steve is in DC joining us. What's happened to Steve? What do you got for us?
Well?
First of all, happy new year, gentlemen, and Lance. It's great to hear you on the show. I know it's been a.
While Fay football as well with you.
Yeah, so listen. All right, I'm gonna say a lot, so hopefully.
Paul you won't interrupt me.
I'm gonna because y'all do a lot of talking. I just want to say this because I'm gonna dress something. First of all, I just want to say this. You know, I don't know why it's all about Lamar lu you know, not playing good when clearly, if you want to point to anything, I think Mark Andrews pretty much do the game. Didn't DeMar dropped them on bad weather. Just take me out there. But you to sit here and put that on him after the year you had and even how well he played, that's crazy.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, I said Mark Andrews. Hold on, Steve, no doubt. But you're you're making a statement based on an inaccuracy, I said Mark Andrews first and Lamar also. Both of those guys made critical mistakes that were routine blades. You can't you can't make those mistakes.
I'm looking, Paul.
Let me just get my little thing out number that.
Okay, go ahead, whatever you want to do, that's all right, go ahead, But.
I just want to hear you know yesterday's shadow it was, you know about twenty twenty six prop We tried to move up last year and couldn't move up. You know, we might not even be there, and we should be trying to move up this year. And now you want to try to kick the can down the road because you don't like the top two quarterbacks. Listen, we don't have that luxury. It's time for us to take a swing. I told you last year when you were talking about, oh, Michael Panis is not good enough, He's gonna go in the second or third round, this, that, and the other. I like Atlanta's medical team a lot better than ours, Okay, Joe Shane, Brian dave Ball. You know, forget losing free age, the fact that we got nothing for him. That's incompetence to the criminal.
I want to say this, I personally have.
No problem telling you if the assignment is the same. We sat there and won a millionless game against.
The coach who you know, and then want you know, and then try it.
Our definitely against the third string, this, that and the other. We all knew we needed a quarterback. So the assignment is the same. If you can't move up and get your guy that you need to move back a couple of spots and grab the next guy you can get. That's the assignment. It's one pit my guy. I personally would like to have Ward, But if we can't do that, I'm okay with moving back up up with spots still grabbing a blue chip player and then coming up and grabbing a mill row or a gun or whoever they like. But it's not, oh, we're gonna just lay the two tenty twenty sixty. Now can bring up Miss Manning's nephew Els then that now we're gonna wait on him.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
It's absolutely ridiculous, Steve.
I think I think that the only thing I want to I want to add to what you're saying is that I don't think you're fully listening to the context of everything that's being said. Because what John and I and and UH and Matt of all said is that you got to get the bridge quarterback and then you take a prospect or a project in this draft. Now John is a little more agreeable thinking with John, Well, John's more agreeable to taking a first round agree with Matt, and I would rather take him in the second or third round.
But the thing is this, you said other players are gonna be in second, third, on last. He's just trying to tell you, first of all, no one's we can't talk about twenty twenty six. So you gotta get the quarterbacks where they're at. That's the assignment if you don't believe in them.
But if you don't believe in them quarterback, Yeah, well that's that's an assumption.
That's what he gets.
An assumption.
I'm saying. I'm saying, move back a couple of spots, grab a blue chip, but you gotta move back up and you gotta grab Milroe.
Well, Steve, listen, job.
Get it done.
We'll let you go on that note, appreciate the phone call. I would what I would counter with what Steve just said is if you love the quarterback, I mean, why move down for a five spots? Just take the quarterback. Why are you chancing it for an extra pick here or there. I mean to me, if you get to three and you have a quarterback in mind, I would not get caught up in ah, move three four spots back, So you gotta pick take the quarterback, and then don't chance God forbid somebody else swoops up and moves up and takes the guy you want. And then what are you gonna do under those circumstances.
You may agree with this premise, I don't know, but you know I look at these things a lot differently than a lot of other people do, Steve. To you and every other fan out there, let me make it very clear for the one hundred and billionth time when I tell you what I would do, I'm not predicting what the Giants will do, Okay, I'm simply saying if I were in their shoes. Here's how I would do it. It's based on my frame of reference and my checklist and my priorities. I don't think on my checklist that either one of those two quarterbacks is worth taking at number three. I've already outlined my plan. Now you want to tell me you want to move up into the bottom of the first round to get a mill Row or you want to make sure you get Dart in the second round. I'm okay with that. I've said all along, you can take a rookie quarterback in this draft. I just wouldn't take him at three. Now. The final point is this, if the Giant's front office believes at number three, whichever quarterback is on the board is their answer, they have to take him. They have a responsibility to take the guy who they are all in on. I'm not telling you what they're thinking because I don't know. I'm not gonna sit here and be dumb enough to predict what they're going to do because I don't know. What I'm telling you. Steve is how I personally feel. If the Giants believe that at number three, they're all in on a quarterback, if his name is Jeffrey Simmons.
Or Bart Jones or.
Jimmy if his neighbors Tinochio or Jimminy Cricket, then you take it.
It's a versatility bugs, Buddy, Daffy Doc. If they're all in on that guy, then they have to take him.
They have to.
Yeah, but that's their decision, not mine.
Nicky too, is that okay?
Absolutely, If they think he's the guy, they have to take him. They we have the responsibility of a franchise in their hands. It doesn't matter what Lance thinks, or what I think, or what you think, Steve. They got to take the guy there all in on. So let me please make it clear to everybody out there who wants to come at me for my quarterback plan. It's my plan if it was my team. I'm not telling you that that plan should be forced on the Giants. I'm not.
And that's why it goes back to the conversation we had earlier. You could have the island of the draft process and the island of the bridge quarterback, But then what are the other forces outside of just analyzing those quarterbacks that come into play? And I would once again just echo the sentiments of the pressure that maybe individuals are feeling the need to find the young guy, and more often than not, we've seen, based on history once again that that does give the level of urgency for a team to not pass up using the third overall pick on a quarterback, and you at least need to digest that and understand that that philosophy could very well exist even within this front office. With that being said, I think that's a good point to leave the conversation. We appreciate everybody for tuning in. Good to reconnect with you, Paul, as well as some of the callers. So absolutely pleasure being here. Pierson, thanks for all your helping assistance. As always, we want to remind you that you've been listening to today's episode of Big Blue KGOF Live. It's part of the Giants Platforms Everywhere and Giants dot Com slash podcast for Paulatino am Lance Meadow. Thanks so much for tuning into Wednesday's edition of BBKA. We'll speak to you on Thursday. Have a good one.