Hey, what's up. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes. Look, this is the Daily Show podcast, where like, how can I explain it? Okay, light, do you remember when you was a kid he was watching something you're having a business watching, and then you thought you heard your parents coming home. Then you look out the window and it's your neighbors pulling into the driveway. So you got another extra hour to watch all the stuff you wasn't supposed to be watching. That's exactly what this podcast is. Baby, it's a little unexpected over time to get to the bottom of issues. From the best segments from The Daily Show Today, we're tackling a very, very big issue. What happens when a state band's abortion Give me a clip, producer, man, what happens when a state band's abortions? The women suddenly go, well, if the state legislature wants me to have this baby, who am I to say? No? No? They don't. Instead, many women who wants an abortion will be forced to go find where it is legal. What we know is when you ban abortion, it doesn't mean that people stop needed access and that people won't go to more lengths to get the care that they need. Clinics and less restrictive neighboring states have been inundated with phone calls from Texas women seeking services. Comprehensive women's health has been inundated with calls from women who live in Texas but want to come here, even though it's located hundreds of miles from Texas in Denver, Colorado. And it's not just Colorado seeing an increase. Even with a twenty four hour waiting period. This street Port Louisiana clinic is booked at least three weeks out. What could happen is that more women may may decide to travel to Mexico. What is like kind of the opposite what they used to happen? Like a lot of women used to travel to the US to have a safe legal abortion. Oh, this is alive when folks were writing the thick of an ongoing battle over reproductive rights in this country. And to help us figure out exactly where we are and where we're headed, we have two wonderful, wonderful guests Daily Show Senior Producer Alison McDonald First and foremost, Hello to you, and good day madam. Hello Roy, Thanks for having me, well, thank you it's been for having s as I've seen you. I feel like I've seen you once since we've gotten back in the building, and it might not even been you. But the hallways are very long. I'm not sure. It's a scary place building. And also joining us on the program right from the heart of the matter down there in Texas toast Land down there in water Burger Land, O B. G right In and Texas abortion provider Dr Gozla Moyetti. Dr Moyetti, how are you doing today? How do y'all? I'm doing good. Thank you for having held on. Hey, how do y'all? I'm here. So Allison, let's let's start with you. Let's set the table for the people who have not seen the entire piece. What's going on in Texas and why do we want to tackle? Well, what happened in Texas When we were on hiatus. It all happened, and so we had a little bit of time to kind of get our shipped together and prepare it. But essentially, in September, a law banning nearly all abortions went into effect in the state of Texas. So s P eight is what the law is known, and it bans basically all abortions and bands abortions starting at six weeks and makes no exceptions for rape and incest. And just for kind of context, women in Texas get abortions after six weeks, so that's we're talking like, this is the strictest band in the country. Um, and most women do not know that they're pregnant at six weeks. That's not even a thing. So the thing that's different about this law is that it's designed to get around the courts. So usually when an abortion writes advocacy group, when a state like Mississippi bands abortions at fifteen weeks or something like that, which bands like that have been tried to pass all across you know, the country. They have passed, but they have been able to go into law because essentially abortion rights advocates they sue like a state official, and the courts block it because it's in violation of Roe v. Wade. But in this case, the Texas law was specifically designed to avoid that from happening. So what happens is this law actually banns public officials from enforcing this law. It deputizes private, private citizens to essentially be the enforcers of of abortion in their states. So they enforced the band so they can sue abortion. Militious abortion. Bounty hunting is essentially what this is. And so any private citizen in any state, by the way, not just Texas, can say this person has had an abortion. They can sue that person and get ten thousand dollars. So the Supreme Court kind of in the dead of the night, this is a conservative court, said we're not going to block it. We're going to allow it to go from now on. It's unclear kind of what's going to happen with this specifically with this Texas law, because we don't really know yet whether the court is going to strike it down. But this is all happening in the context of the court taking up abortion in a bigger way later on. And of course it's like a now conservative court. You're saying that people can there's legal ramifications to this law. The private citizens can inject themselves into the into the issue. Any private citizen can say, I saw this woman getting an abortion, she got in an uber and you know she's getting an abortion, and then that person gets ten thousand dollars. They but they can't sue. The important thing is they can't sue the person getting the abortion. They sue providers or anyone that helps them get the abortion, right, anyone who aids and a beets an abortion, which is kind of clear what that even means. So Dr Mariettie defined that that I help by driving you to the clinic. Yeah. Yeah, so it could be driving, it could be helping to pay, it could be helping them get the appointment. It's unclear aiding and abetting is a criminal like thing, and this is a civil procedure, So who knows. How are doctors supposed to be able to protect themselves from that type of stuff? How do you how can you even disprove the allegation? More importantly, right, we have no idea. There's no precedent for the law, so we don't know. It's just like we'll see when it happens. Hey, Roy, okay, and then you take the money and go get an abortion. I didn't know that that's what you were going to and and automatically I'm tim k in the hole. That's what you're saying. Yeah, well, the law says that even if you didn't know you were helping or that it was illegal. Come on, come on, So then what are what are some of the ripple effects of this law thus far? Doctor, what have you seen at your practice, you know, just in the day to day from performing This law was passed two now, I mean, you know, a large part of my practice was providing abortion care in Texas prior to September FIRS. So that has pretty much completely stopped for me. I have not been able to provide in Texas at all since this long went into effect. And I mean I take care of people for abortion care in the outpatient setting, so what you would think of as a typical abortion clinic. But I also take care of people who are pregnant with very wanted pregnancies that then face some serious medical complications, either with the diagnosis of the pregnancy itself, the fetus, or they develop a serious health problem. So I also specialize in providing abortion care for people that are critically ill in pregnancy, and so that has also stopped the ability to take care of people with pregnancy complications. So I have been traveling out of state. I've been going to Oklahoma to provide care for Texans, for Oklahoma's and for Texans that are traveling to Oklahoma. I just got back yesterday from a few days they're providing care, and now I'm doing a lot of stuff like this talking about but if they're not getting the abortions in Texas, where are people going and how are they able to pay for these? Because this is this is also an issue. There is also a poverty issue to a degree. It's a poverty issue, it's a race issue, it's a white supremacy issue, it's all of the all of those things issues. Everywhere across the country is seeing patients um fleeing from Texas to get care. And that's the people that can. We have some great organizations in our state that are really working NonStop to raise funds and essentially transfer those funds directly to people. So groups like fun Texas Choice are funding airfare, gas, child care, food, hotel for people to get out of state. Groups like Texas Equal Access Fund are funding the cost of the abortion or near total cost of the abortion. Tons of abortion funds in our states. So but it's you know, this is a human rights issue. This isn't you shouldn't have to pull everyone's resources to get medical care. It's a you know, an abomination. Can I ask you a question, doctor, wondering what it feels like to have Governor Greg Abbott kind of in the room with you. Essentially, when you're with a patient, like deciding how you care for somebody who has certain medical needs, and you're the expert who can address those, but there's a political voice in that room. It's um infuriating and it's not new. That's it's not a new thing. With s B eight, this has been a problem in Texas for a couple of decades now. So Texas has really been the blueprint state for testing abortion restrictions and exporting them to other states. So I have been working in abortion care here for about seventeen years prior to even becoming a doctor, and every single legislative session there's a new ban and just a little bit more chipped away, a little bit more chipped away. So even before this I had to sit in the room and give patients information a booklet with lies in it, like medically inaccurate information, medically inaccurate pictures that politicians came up with. And even before this law, I had to tell them about the risk of breast cancer, which there isn't right, but I'm required by the state to talk about breast cancer and abortion, required by the state to talk about infertility and abortion in ways that are dishonest and untruthful, and so it creates confusion, right because I have to tell patients. The state wants me to tell you that abortion causes breast cancer. I would like to tell you that the World Health Organization, the American Cancer Society, all o b gans in this country, and anyone who understands science disagrees with them. But Governor Abbott wants you to know that abortion causes breast cancer. So it's been a ship show for a while, and this is just you know, the terrible chair. So let's stay right there with that word should show Allison. Our job is to try and figure out a way to make some of this ship funny, which there are instances where the time and distance from the thing two now there's not enough space yet to figure out the funny. But even if we decided, like another great example of something that broke while we were off the air was George Floyd. We weren't on the air when that happened, and then when we came back to air, it was not funny. The show was inherently not funny by intention. For a couple of days, it was informative, it was inspiring, it was reassuring, so even even if we step outside the confines of trying to be a comedy program for an episode, we're still only a thirty forty minute program of the ship show. How do you choose which turns to showcase? It's all about finding what's in the realm of funny, and usually in these cases, it's finding what's the most absurd, Like you're not so much you kind of know, Okay, this story is definitely not going to be funny. Like, as a producer on the show, what I watched so many documentaries about what happened to women before Roe V Wade, and I was like, I was actually like weeping in my at my computer. I mean, it was horrible, and I was like, what show do I work on? Like? Why am I crying at my desk watching documentaries about this? But um, I think it's about finding that absurdity. And in this case, what we kind of jumped off with was the uber driver thing. So there was a reporter I'm in the kind of department looking for soundbites, and so there was a reporter who was standing outside a planned parenthood clinic, I think it in Houston, and she said, I was trying to get Nuber just to do this live shot all morning. We're here at a planned Parenthood clinic. I had to get here this morning from my hotel. I tried Uber, I tried left, the ride was canceled three times. Finally I changed it to the address instead of Planned Parenthood and I was able to get a ride. But that just shows you the fear that this is spurring and the impact of this law. That seems like to me the most natural avenue for jokes, because we're not necessarily going to be able to make jokes about so many of the other dire, depressing circumstances. Correct. So Dr Moyetti, I have to ask this question, give me your journey to now, knowing the difficulties ahead of you. Number one, Even even before this law to be this type of medical services provider to women, there were hurdles. There were a lot of issues from Birmingham. There was there was a bombing at an abortion clinic at Birmingham and Birmingham in the nineties. Why didn't you go into this line of care. It's always been dangerous, and now the politicians aren't even on your Before it was just the church. Now it's the church and the government even more so. Yeah, Um, you know, I think it's a lot of things that that brought me here. I'm I kind of joke that I accidentally became an abortion provider, Like I accidentally kind of started working at an abortion clinic. Um like whoops, so I'm here now, Oh this is awesome. So I mean I was a strip club janitor for three days, two stories exactly. Um, So after I graduated from college, I started working at an abortion clinic, and I kind of just like the veil was lifted to some extent. I didn't realize, like I knew what abortion was, but most people don't talk about abortion in their daily life. No one like says abortion daily usually unless you're me or other people like me. So it wasn't something I'd ever really had to think about other than friends or family that had to abortions and knowing like if and when I need one, I'm going to get one. But um, working at the clinic, I realized a couple of things. One that like, here is a place where science, which I was a huge nerd and science nerd and really enjoyed, like this is science, this is a medicine, this is cool, and it's politics and history and social stuff, and so that was really cool too. And the same people that are protesting outside that hate us in here were like the people that hated me growing up. I'm Iranian, I'm a child of immigrants, I grew up in outside of Houston and all white community. And um, like I didn't have the words for it, but it was like, this is all the same ship that's been pissing me off from like day one. You grew up in that first wave desert Storm, Operation Desert Shield, Patriot exactly exactly, Iraq War, Desert Storm Daughter, yes, nine eleven. Um, So I had a connection between those things. And um, I also saw that there were very few physicians that were providing care. It was actually mostly white men, and that the people we were taking care of weren't really white men and so they more looked like me, and that there was a gap in care as well. And so that's really like I had a passion for like being a woman of color and taking care of other people of color. And um also to like poke the bear like funk y'all Okay, so then to that poke in the bear, are you ever concerned about the bear biting back? Because sometimes with these clinics. It's it's not an just the walk from your car to the front door is not something who take for granted. So are you ever are you ever scared or concern for your safety? Yeah? I mean I would be naive to say, like, nah, it's toally cool, it's hotly five. No, Like, I take safety measures. I you know, before we started recording, I made sure there wasn't a picture of my kid, that there wasn't anything here that someone could zoom in and figure out. And you know, it's not this dire. But I've watched a lot of c sign I'm like, if they can see out the window, well they know the right time of day and they can GEO locate me to my house right like. Um, but I take up a lot of safety measures. I have vicious dogs and if anyone asks, they're really really vicious. Um. I mean also, you're in Texas. I heard like guns are free with an eight gallon purchase gun, right exactly. Yeah, you can supersize it at the drive through, so right right. Um, you can't like get a good education, but you can get three guns. Um. So um. But you know, I also like, let's be real, it has never been like super safe to be like the child of immigrants, um, in all white communities in the South, or you know a black person in the South or a black person anywhere. Um, you know, like there are outward things about me and many people that make it unsafe to live. And this is like another thing and it's the same, the same oppressors. What about the stereotype that well, I'm from Alabama, so we bathe ourselves in stereotypes. We and it's slow, it comes at that night. What do you wear like walking into Here's where racism saves me. What do you wear walking into work? Do you try to like not look doctory? Or you will dr jacket? Like? How does okay? How okay? How does racism save you? Do I look doctor? If you saw me where you like that? Which is a doctor? That bitch is operating? That bitch is a doctor. No, you wouldn't say that at all. This is where racism saves me. This is where sexism saves me. I'm the janitor, I am, you know, like I don't wear my scrubs in and um, I mean now they all know, right, I've been out in these streets on these cameras. But um, for the most part. Usually they don't know, but um, yeah, I don't wear my scrubs in I try not to enter where the protesters will be. If I have to bring my kid to work, um you know, I have my kid cover his face. It's a funny game, but it's really like a disturbing funny game. Um so if you wanted to, if you really wanted to sell it, you could just have a mop and a vacuum cleaner that you just take in with you every day. I'm not saying lean in the racism, but maybe give the kid a broom and they go, oh, it's the cleaning lady and her printed where is here to clean? I don't really know how you stand there and listen to them and not get so enraged, because there are when I'm walking in New York, there's a couple of anti abortion protesters down in Soho on Mulberry Street. They're outside the Planned Parenthood and I've I've wanted to scream at them, and actually I think my my husband did scream at them, and I was like, you know, I know, like you think that makes a difference, but it doesn't. But I it must be so impossible to day in day out be hearing the real life stories and how hard it is for women to make these decisions. And then for these people who perhaps they have legitimate religious grievance whatever it is, they seem to me to be very condescending and angry, um and just not understanding of how hard these decisions are for women. It's not as if we just are doing it just to do it, just to have a Thursday abortion. If you want a Thursday abortion, that's okay, though, that's cool too, like right, that's yes, right, that's true. People get it for all reasons, so there's no need to focus on any pose. But it is no matter who you are, it is a decision that you either internally or externally. You know, I have to cope with whether you struggle with it or not. You know, even though I said, like, oh, I love to poke the bear. Like the other thing we say is like don't feed the protesters, um, like that that's what they're there for. They're living for that. Um. They don't have anything else to do. That's what they're there to do. They're just like professional trolls. And for me, like my job is not to hang out with them. I actually might have to take care of some of them, and have taken care of some of them, right like protesters need abortions too. My job is taking care of the people in the clinic and being there for them and being in the headspace. So I usually just try and ignore them and make sure I'm not like running over them. Um. And one time I like just rolled down my window and mouthed um. And that felt good that one day. But then the next time he was recording me as I came by, so I was just like, cool, bless your heart, um. But I play like Rage against the Machine or nine inch Nails really loud as I'm driving by, or Depeche Mode, and then I go in the clinic and take care of people, and then you know, rage about them at home. But I have to not have them in my mind when I'm caring for folks. Sometimes I'll see the footage in front of these abortion clinic and my first thought is, are all the pro choice people at work? Where's the backup? You know? I think? Or they have the same approach to shoot, just don't Yeah, we asked them. We actually will usually ask people not to come unless they're really wilding and we need like help escorting people in um there. They want the fight, and so pro choice people pro abortion people showing up will make more of them come. They're like, yeah, we got something to do. And then like the last thing we need is a fight out. We don't need a right outside the clinic. I just need to take care of folks. And they do crazy. I mean they do crazy. Ship There's a guy that yells like he's a fetus in an abortion and like you can hear it when I'm providing abortion care, and we just like have to turn up the like who was that that artist? Was it? Like Enya? Like we have to like turn up the Enya so it drowns him out. I don't know what's worse than Enya or man in the parking lot. After the break, I want to talk a little bit um with you ladies, just about some of the misconceptions about abortion. You spoke earlier about some of the the stupid disclaimers that you have to read off like a pre flight seat build announcement that the governor makes you do. Let's get into some of the misconceptions about abortion after the break. This is beyond the scenes. Dr MOYETI, what are the misconceptions about abortion that you wish people were like more informed on, Like, yeah, everybody, if you do it, then this will happen and you amution that then the man and then your eye and then you get cataracts. Like there's so many different As we all know, America loves to agree on science, right, What are what are some of the misconceptions about the procedures that the general public has bought into for one reason or another. Yeah, I think the biggest one is that abortion is dangerous, certainly, and that it can cause any number of serious side effects. I think infertility is probably the most common side effect that people are concerned about. And it is true that prior to nineteen seventy three that unsafe, illegal abortions could lead to infertility, and that was a result of unskilled people doing procedures and people's bodies as a result of infections that people did get treated for because it was illegal, so they didn't want to seek care um. And it was a result of heavy bleeding either during procedures by unskilled people or just heavy bleeding afterwards that people wouldn't get get care for because they were afraid. And those things, those infections and heavy bleeding or injuries. If they're not treated, then they can result in infertility. And so that certainly was the case prior to nineteen seventy three and is not the case anymore. Um, something I think is surprising that I tell people about is just being pregnant is a risk for infertility. So any time that you're pregnant, you become at risk for having heavy bleeding in a hemorrhage, and if that is uncontrolled, that can lead to a hysterectomy and infertility. So pregnancy in and of itself is a risk, but abortion is not an extra risk for infertility. People think they're going to die from abortion, and again that was true before nineteen seventy three. That remains true in countries where abortion is illegal and people aren't able to obtain pills or services in any way. But you know, in one hospital in New York, or maybe even two hospitals in New York, there will be more people that die from childbirth in a year than in the whole country from abortion in a year. So, just to put it in perspective, that's what's so fucked up about forcing people to stay pregnant, right Like A I hate when people call it pro life because everyone's pro life. That's dumb. But b because it's really forced pregnancy. Your pro forced pregnancy. And I was reading that actually, um, you know, women are fourteen times more likely to die during or after giving birth than they are getting an abortion. And so if it's really about safety and health, I mean we all know that's not true exactly. And it lays there, it lays bare whose life they care about it. They care about the life that's actually not a full life in the way that the woman's life is. Yeah, well, and you know, why do they care about embryos so much? Why do they care about fetus is so much? Because they don't care about like children that much. It's because fetuses are are can be perfect, right, They don't have any complexity. They can't say anything that pisces you off. They can't get medicaid, they can't vote against you, like they just are chilling doing nothing, and so it's easy to be like, you're a hero, little fetus, and we love you. Um right, they can't make you mad. Where do you think the perception comes from in our society that most of the women who are getting abortions are just women that are scared of being a mom, and that they're just trying to erase some mistake from a one from a one night stand or something that they don't want to live with the rest of them. Where did that perception? Where do you think that perception came from? And what's the reality of it. I don't know where it came from. But we kind of dealt with this in the piece in that there was a joke about it. It was, you know, it's a joke about this. Uper takes you to the barbecue restaurant next to a planned parenthood clinic, and the joke was the chefs like, get your friars ready, we got someone coming. And then they're like, oh, ship, no, she just wasn't ready to be a mom. Women can't even get an uber to the abortion clinic. That is insane and so horrible, and it must be pretty upsetting for the restaurant next door that old the women are pretending to get rights to Yeah, slash the corn bread boys, We got someone coming there for some barbecue. Oh no, wait, wait waite, she just isn't ready to be a Mommy false alarm. It was really funny. It was a really funny joke and I was re reading the script and I was like, damn, that is a really funny joke, but actually fifty of women who get abortions are already mother and you know, you hate to be the producer that's like wow wow about it. So basically, like my role of thumb is just if the joke is really funny, I just ignore like the reality, and that was kind of the case in this. But I think, like to that point, I think the media fuels that misperception quite a lot, whether whether it's the news less so, but I think anytime you watch a Lifetime movie, anytime you watch a Hollywood movie, I mean, really, you're not no one's ever seeing someone who already has three kids get an abortion on camera. Ever. Yeah, that most people get abortion that get abortion is already parenting in some way. Um. I think it also is partly because conversations around abortion, they always seem to go to like these extremes, right, like it's okay if it, we feel more okay with it. If it's just like this is a kid that's just not ready to be a mom, it becomes a lot more sticky and complicated if it's someone that is already parenting. Because somehow like they're ready to be more mommy than than they were mom and before, right, and so it's not so cut and dry. Then when we're getting into the nuances, can I also just say I produced this piece while I had a nine month old son at home, and nothing makes you more pro choice than having them being pregnant and having a baby. You are like, if you did not want this, let alone, if you were physically abused, raped, you know, in a victim of incest. This is not something that anyone should be forced to do. It's really hard and it drives you insane. Amongst men in our circles, the only time you hear about abortion coming up is when it is the one night stand, or it is the well I've thought about it and I don't want to be together. So the only abortions you hear about are the ones that lie in that, and even in that, the way the conversation is postured amongst men, it's what I told her that I'm not gonna be there, so she baty go and take care of that, Like it's almost this threat, which adds a sense of shame, which explains why women don't talk to us about all the other reasons within the profile of why you're doing an abortion. So those people have grown up to become elected officials, those people have grown up to become protesters, those people have grown up to be the ones yelling outside making feet of sounds like a moron. I wish you could just shoot him with a paintball gun, like not hurt him. But I'm not. I'm not shooting anyone hard shale paint. But I don't ever been hit with a paint paintball. It's a good bruise, the solid lesson learning. It looks paintful, it looks painful. I don't think I could recover from that. Honestly, I have dreams like from a paintball attack. Yeah. I was gonna say, another huge misconception that I noted in or that I noticed all doing this piece was, you know, Greg Abbott, so there's no exceptions for rape and interest, which is just so fucking cruel it's unbelievable. Um, But you know, Greg Abbott has been pressed on this quite a lot of like really no exceptions for rape? What? And his his answer, his serious answer, is that he's the way to solve this is he's going to eliminate rapists. Yeah, he's gonna just you know, poof Gone Texas will work tirelessly to make sure that we eliminate all rapists from the streets of Texas by aggressively going out and arresting them and prosecuting them and getting them off the street. He's been holding onto the secret, I know. And so that's just the fact that like those are the people that is the highest official in the state of Texas and that's his solution is just so unbelievable. Why do you think that these people that are so pro l Are they pro education? Are they pro child services as well? I mean they're pro white supremacy, that's what they're pro, so whatever. You know, they're pro education that promotes white supremacy. They're pro health that upholds white supremacy. Um. You know the trolls that have been coming out against me as I've been like testifying a Congress or you know, advocating for my community and different news outlets. They also are coming after me for vaccinating my child. Someone said I had medically enslaved my child, like right, so there the Yeah, their arguments just have so many holes in them, Like you could take the whole vaccine mandate thing. They're very opposed to that that takes their freedom. There they are actually holding signs that say my body, my choice and right with no irony, and so I don't know, it's so the hypocrisy is something like we couldn't even hit in this piece because it's like almost too easy at this point. I almost think it's pointless, right, Like you're not going to be able to convince them right, there is actually no logic because they clearly don't use it, And so I think it's more important actually to focus on people in the middle and make sure they're not doing the shady ship too, um, because at least you can use logic with those people. If someone is saying that a vaccine against a global pandemic that's killed almost a million people in the US is child enslavement, um, Like, what else do I have to say to them? Cool, I'll see it in the I see you. I'll still take care of you, dummy, you know. So, do you think the fight for changing the perceptions on this issue lie in the youth, in the new wave of people, and not in these zealots who have already bought into it and they are going to ignore statistics of how it affects communities of color the hardest. They're going to ignore statistics on how women who are denied abortions have worse mental health problems than women who get them. They're gonna deny all of that. So you figure eight, there's no more talking to you. Let's just figure out ways for with the people who are younger and more progressive. Yeah. Actually, you know, I really love Little nos X, and I've been thinking about in that song where he's like, you were never really rooting for me anyway, Like they never cared about us anyway. Like they don't care about trans people, they don't care about people of color, they don't care about black folks. So if I'm talking about this hurts women, this hurts black folks, that hurts immigrants, this hurts queer people. Well, I mean that's like those are all check marks for them on the list, right, So um yeah, we need to focus on people, uh that um actually care about this issue, centering their needs and values, and centering the people that are most effective affected and leading with our values. I think the most important change that needs to happen with this debate is that men need to be just as loud as women, because I'm like a little sick of talking about abortion. You know, it's so important, but at a certain point, you you get tired by it. You know, you're like, why do I have just talk about my period and when it when my pregnancy starts? And like why is that even in the public space? And I feel like men are very touched, equally touched by this issue in some ways, and there's a lot of silence. You know, there's a lot of silence, And I understand it because it's less comfortable for you guys. But we need you, So go to the alleys, donate the money, be loud, talk talk about it with your friends as well, Like I think that's that's the key. Talk about it right. And you know, um, we don't talk to me even our kids about how to talk about abortion, right. Like we might talk to our daughters or kids that can become pregnant about a portion in the sense of like, don't you get pregnant and if you do, call anti right, But um, we don't talk to our sons or children that can get other people pregnant about like what their feelings are about parenthood, about when they want to be parents, um and what they think about abortion right. And I think a key to getting men involved is just the notion of the fact that if you believe that men and women should be equal, then this right has to exist because without it, women don't finish education, they do not have the same economic opportunities, They cannot participate in society the way that men do. So if you're for equality, then you're for access to abortion. Before we get to the break um and answer this any way you want, but it wasn't until I don't see his name. I just call them old. Yeah, that makes them sound kind of like classic though, Yeah, like a could forty five, Well, cope forty five and get your drunk and probably get you to the gym. So they're not a sponsor. Oh you're thinking Billy d Williams copet, No, No, I'm thinking cot five now with no celebrity sponsorship. When we talk about an abortion baron, I feel like we're also talking about societal forces like women's women's role in society, and you know, raising equity issues, mental health, it's poverty, it's a healthcare issue. Like everything else that's going on in the country is all baked into this castle role. What do you think this says about America as a whole, Because we love to say we've had an awakening and a breakthrough and we are a new country and we now care. We had a women's march, we wore vagina hats. How did this like, what do you think this the passing of this law says about our country? We still got a long way Togo. No, we clapped for you, remember every seven o'clock. Yeah, clap for you. Chucked the grew up dude. Yeah, I clapped for the heroes, you know, right back open. So fuck you? Yeah, yeah, suck me is right. I do think we definitely have a long way to go, Allison, what about you? I mean it's so many things, but I think it's mainly that we're very uncomfortable with sex in this country, and that we're not educated, and that we are used to restricting women, especially poor women and women of color, and we're comfortable with that, Like we're comfortable restricting the rights of those people. It doesn't make us uncomfortable. It doesn't make us scream no, they're losing their freedom, blah blah blah blah blah. We are used to it, and yeah, it's just and I think people just do not know what pre row is. Like, you know, most people weren't around during that time. I mean, I guess, so there's a lot old people wasn't that long ago, but people people were around, people around. But also, like I hate this kind of it's beilful ignorance. To some extent, it is. Yeah, And I think when a white politician or anyone really who's white, thinks about a daughter of theirs or a friend who need to get an abortion, there's always a kind of excuse or oh, they well they just got into college, or they're oh, they've got such a bright future ahead of them. But when it's a black woman or Hispanic woman and she's already a mom, it's they were irresponsible and they were or oh they should have been more careful. Right, it lives. And actually, federal funds aren't even allowed for poor women to get abortion, so it's like we've already whittled down this right for poor women so that they have to pay out a pocket for these things, whereas wealthy women who are covered by insurance do not. So I think it's it's largely about how comfortable we are restricting the rights of the poor people and women in this country. And I think, I mean, our country has yet to have any sort of racial reckoning honestly, right that we have not actually confronted colonialism, We have not confronted genocide. We haven't confronted our history of that. And abortion restrictions are part of a long legacy of reproductive coercion and control, and specifically against communities of color like this. Controlling the bodies of black women was central to enslavement um stealing children and suppressing birth, and Indian communities was central to the genocide of Native Americans. This is how we have maneuvered in this country and that's why there are good abortions and bad abortions to their along racial line as well. Right, we want to protect and keep more beautiful white babies coming, and we want to villainize racialized birth to some extent. Right after the break, I want to talk about, you know, the things that we can do to try and engage this topic better, you know, especially men, that we we've already scratched the surface a little bit, but I want to go a little bit deeper on ways that we can keep people receptive, not only to normalize in a conversation around reproductive health, but also on the political side, if there's a different way we can try and send the message two people so that they can understand just how serious of an issue this is. Because I feel like Texas is not Texas could be an anomaly, or it could be the beginning of a neutrient. So I want to I want to talk about that after the break. This is beyond the scenes as we bring it home, and I've I've learned a lot just as as a man and this conversation, and while you all have been talking, I'm literally in my head just been thinking, Wow, I'm I'm sure plenty of women in my life have had this procedure. It's never come up. It's something that's really ever discussed. And then I start reconciling every conversation I've had with a dude about it, and it's always from a grouchy man ship I gotta go get three and it's it's a hassle, like it's never seen as something that, Wow, this happened. And I'm going to talk about this with Grace. I'm going to do this in a more tasteful way. Doc. What are some ways that we can start in this country talking about abortion in ways that take the stigma off of it, especially because I know a lot of this also starts, you know, at home with parents and child as well. Yeah, I mean, I think step one is just like, say the word abortion and don't dance around it. Um. So many people like to use euphemisms like reproductive services, we're going to get a termination. Like just say the word abortion, and that helps to begin to destigmatize it. But but yeah, just talking to folks, one in four women of reproductive age will have at least one abortion in their lifetime in the US. Um, many people who have had one abortion will have more than one abortion. Everybody loves somebody who's had an abortion. That's something that Renee Bracy Sherman says, and it's very true. I'm actually roy. I'm really surprised. I talk about abortion so much, and I've never thought about what men talk about when they talk about abortion. That's the first time I've ever thought about that. I don't think there was something I hadn't thought about. I didn't even think they talked about it. No, it's just a story you tell your friend and even then you don't talk about it. In the moment. It's some four or five year later after the fact. Oh yeah, man, I had to pay for one of them one time. Sure, I think she was lying too, just trying to think me for I have seen a lot of that kind of foolishness, like I need to bring a receipt and show him because he needs me to prove how much it wants or men like force themselves into coming into the ultrasound because they want to. I do see a lot of that ship a lot. Y'all Stop doing that. That ain't right. Nobody, nobody needs that. I'm here to be here with her full support. How much is that gonna be? Duck? I need to do right now right? And you know, we don't mean this like just as a talking point either, But it's not just women that have abortions, Like abortion affects the queer community as well. Trans people have abortions, men have abortions. And so when we really start to understand that all people are involved in abortions, that this is not just like a women's issue, I think it also helps to kind of remove it from the silo. Right. The abortion helps everyone, it doesn't just help this one group of people. Um, and we all need access to it. Well, it's it's also an economic issue. It's not just about abortion. I mean when you look at what happens to women who are denied abortion care, it's an economic issue when you look at how to pay for it. So I mean it's I mean, it's tough no matter how you cut it. Like, I like what you had to say about let's just call it abortion, Like, let's just call it what it is. And also when we're talking about abortion, I'd like to hear facts. But I also I don't like a lot of times when you're talking about abortion, there's a focus or at least on certain laws about like well this is for women. They they wanted the baby and then they you know, the baby had some sort of defect and abortion. I think that confuses the conversation because it's not about a specific need. It's not about this teenager or this mom of three or the it's it's societally, what does having access to an abortion mean? And also like strictly facts, if you're anti abortion, just as many abortions happened per year before Roe v. Wade as they do now, So if you are just anti abortions, happening. That doesn't making it legal or illegal does not change a thing. It just makes it really dangerous for the woman. How do we talk to our opponents about that, Like, how do you we get them? Do you frame it more in those more social buckets or do we focus strictly on the angles that everybody that everybody seems to be attacking? Now, you know, I try not to engage too much in the like very public engaging with opponents and more on the personal engaging with opponents, right, because in the public sphere it's really about like sound bites and a tip for tat and like someone winning. But really what this is about is just connecting with someone on a human level and just being like, this is a real other person here with a real whole lass life and real whole lass problems. And I think it becomes easier to empathize with people in that way. Sadly, right, that many people lack the social skills to care about others, but it's harder to do that on on one on one. So, I mean, I've had many students that I've taught that we're very like anti abortion at the beginning and after like getting to know me, right, that I'm not the boogeyman as like an evil abortion doctor. But also once they start to really one on one talk with patients and understand what people are going through, that's when their minds start to unravel isolate them. Is there any you do abortions who have researched abortions to know in and have watched all of the footage you have seen all of the footage in real life happened to you? Is there any can you give me any reasons for optimism on this issue. I don't want to end this podcast, No, I mean I should. I think the good news is that like people fucking support abortion. Like that's the reality, right, that people do actually support abortion. Everyone fucking needs an abortion, and actually when it comes down to it, people support it. That is also what the polling shows in Texas. I'm not a polling person. I just notice say that the pulling also shows in Texas, So that's what they say. But I don't know. Everyone I see really needs an abortion still, and they all have family members and they don't you know what I mean, Like, there's not it's not three people I'm seeing, it's all of y'all. I'm taken care of. So the reality is that we are bigger numbers than them, um, and we just need to like get our ship together and like be a little bit more more extra than them. I think maybe if we scared the ship out of them, like the most extreme to the left, that we could compromise more in the middle of a like sensical middle, because I think, like, right, they say that, like if you get an abortion, you should get the death penalty. Well, then it becomes easier to compromise while like, okay, a fifteen week band doesn't seem as bad if we're talking death penalty, So maybe we should say something crazy. Um, I don't know. The only thing beat crazy is crazy. I always I always had a theory that part of why Hillary loss it's because Trump ran on building a wall and Hillary should have just said my wall will have missiles. I mean, right, why doesn't matter, doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, rules don't matter. It turns out either right, look the Supreme Court, Right, why are we playing? Then let's just do let's let's do what everyone wants to do instead of being like, oh please, can we have human rights? Like, let's okay, I think we can take them. I think the only good thing is I will say, I think the good positive thing is that I do think young people are very politically engaged right now. I do think young women know and care about what's going on in Texas. And another good thing that's come out of ROW is that more women are educated, more women are you know, have much more power in society than they did when when ROW was codified into law. But I also think, like, what I want to have faith in is that we don't need to outsource our rights to the Supreme Court, which is composed of nine people. What what needs to happen? And there are there are bills in Congress to make ROW law, Like I want I need that to happen because this whole like, oh no, we're waiting for the court to overturn Row. Like we have another branch of government, Congress. They are called lawmakers. But we don't don't wait. We don't have to wait for the laws to be dictated by the court. There's others the right and they can't even like yeah, so that's where I want to have optimism. Yeah, what can what can people do to help? What can what can the general layman do? Then show up to your clinic and punch this idiot that's making the few sound. I do not like this person. No right, oh god, that guy. That guy sucks. Um you know, talk about abortion, Get involved in abortion your local community. I think you know you're being from Birmingham. I'm from Texas. Like white supremacy, patriarchy, that's not a Southern thing, that's a whole US thing. Um. So it's not just a Southern problem. This isn't a Texas problem. Just because you're in New York or California, in Washington doesn't mean that those issues aren't in your community as well. Also, the anti abortion movement they don't have a um red state plan, they have a fifty state, multi decade plan, right, So they're not just focused here, they're focused in all your homes too, and so and they start at the local level, right. The the architects of SP eight started with sanctuary city for the unborn ordinances in local communities in Texas. That's what they started with. And then they got to this, and that's coming for all y'all's homes too. So get involved in local politics. Donate to abortion funds, abortion funds in Texas, abortion funds in your own state. That's who is getting getting folks to care, helping pay for care. UM and I don't know, um vote vote. I think that's planning for that. That's enough to get them started, say aboard. I'm like, I don't look. We could keep going on all day about this, but that is unfortunately all the time we have for today. Dr Gazla Moyeti and Daily Show Senior producer Alison McDonald thank you both so much for bringing this issue to the show. Next week, though, i'mna beyond so John, I'm gonna have to tackle something a little lighter, like we want to talk about why McDonald's ice cream machine broken, or why does the mcdoubell only have one slice of cheese but the double cheeseburger has too slights. We'll tackle those issues later. This has been Beyond the Scenes. Listen to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to go even further beyond the scenes. Check out the video version of Beyond the Scenes on the Daily Show's YouTube page.