Hey, Welcome to Beyond the Scenes. This is the podcast that goes deeper into savings and topics that have originally aired on The Daily Show at Trevor Noah. I am roy Wood Jr. Per as usual this podcast. You know, you don't beyond the scenes. It's like, this is like when you order a milkshake and they make too much milkshake and they give you that little extra bit of milkshake. You're not like, they eat the milk shake and then they eat the cup they made the milkshake in. It's got a little bit of a corner. That's a Southern measurement of liquid. They give you a little extra corner of milkshake. Is two milkshakes for the price of one. That's what this podcast is like. We are overflowing with informational goodness that might give your brain freeze. Now, in honor of Dr Reverend Martin Luther the King Day, we're taking a look at the life and legacy of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. The appropriation of his message, his influence in today's pop culture, and all things of that nature. Today I'm joined by Daily Show writer Randall Otis. Randall as always great to have you own? How you doing, pimpin, I'm doing good. You know, got covids, so I don't have to worry about that for another month at least. Well, you know what they say, Randall, You're not a real New York City stand up comedian if you haven't caught COVID. So welcome to the party, Pale. It's also I'm also joined by New York Times bestselling author of the book How to Be An Anti Racist and also stamped from the Beginning The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America. He is a historian and the director of Boston University's Center for Anti Racist Research, Professor Abram X. Kendy. Professor Kendy, how are you doing today? I'm good. I'm still still running from from COVID. I'm trying well. If it's anything like the NYPD, eventually it will stop you for questioning were avoiding it. Thank you so much for being on the show. Before we get into the topic at hand today, which is Dr Martin Luther, Reverend the King, and the way a lot of people cherry pick pieces of his message to fit their narrative. You have dedicated your life to trying to educate and get people to understand here's how we correct, here's how we reverse this terrible cancer on this country. What the hell do you do to relax? Man? What is your what is like? You know people? You know? Do you know people? What's your spy routine? What's your woosa? What does professor Kindy do to unwind? And just take a breath from this so that the same great helps uh each night? Um? I think I also try not to take things personally, and so certainly when people are degrading black people, I don't take it personally as if there's something wrong with with me. People like me, I recognize them as a problem. But even when people are personally attacking sort of me and my work from bad faith, I also just try not to take it personally and try to be focused, you know, in transformation. So when we talk about Martin Luther King Jr's birthday and the fact that it's now a national holiday, it's it's are they are they observing it yet in Arizona? Are we still forty nine states county? I don't know. It's like everyone knows that I have a dream speech, and that's the one that's kind of the it's the most quoted of all of his many many quotables, but that was only a small part of his complex legacy. Um, I'll start with you, Professor Kendy, what parts of Dr King's legacy, in your opinion, are often overlooked? Well, I mean, even if you take the mL E the I have a Dreams speech, and and the line that is often quoted that at that King's dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of the character. People disregard what he said directly before that and directly after it, which in which he lamented that his dream is being threwarded by vicious racists in places like Mississippi, which are sweltering with the heat of oppression. Can you imagine if if I say that today, right, you know that that's a problem. But but then somehow, and so I think there's so much of of of kings sort of legacy, the fact that he simultaneously recognized racism and spoke out about racism as the problem, but then also recognized how racism itself it wasn't just sort of harming black people, it was harming America, it was harming democracy, and it was dividing people, and he wanted to bring people together. And he saw anti racism as as as a unifying sort of praxis the way you've just so eloquently explained that, Hey, you know, right before that line and right after that line, he says some other stuff you should look into. Why are people why do people cherry pick that? Why are people in denial about the other parts of who Dr? King was? Like he was against the Vietnam War. Why has that never brought up? I mean, it's it's striking. I mean, you know they not only was King against the Vietnam War, but when he came out against the Vietnam War, I believe April fourth, ninety seven, he stated in a speech that the United States government is the greatest purveyor of violence on the face of this earth. And and you know, you know, again he was very clear about even the relationship between imperialism, military sort of warfare, human division, you know, in racism, and and I think I'm I'm personal the sort of bother. Just because he said so much more than that, I have a dream speech in that single line. But we of course missed that because we try to people try to use King uh to justify their own not racism, or that we should be race neutral as a nation, which I'm still trying to figure out what that even means. What I would love to do is play you a clip of conservatives who have appropriated Mlk's message. Let's just let's just let's just listen to a run of conservatives quoting Dr King. Dr King would not participate in a Black Lives Matter protest. The Great MLK said there, you have a moral obligation to object to unjust rules and rules that make no sense. One of my favorite quotes from Dr King was, now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. You think of how he changed a marr cha. He inspired us to change through the legislative process to become a more perfect union. That's exactly what President Trump is calling on the Congress to do today. I'm asking my colleagues to remember the words of the legendary, the great leader in this country, Dr Martin Luther King, who once said the time is always right to do what is right. And I just want to leave you with the quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. That we must learn to live together as brothers, or we will perish together as fools. Thank you. Critical race theory is a Marxist doctor that rejects the vision of Martin Luther King Jr. Critical race theory. Here it goes against everything Martin Luther King has ever told us, don't judge us by the color of our skin, And now they're embracing it, right, They're going backwards. He's kind of like everyone's um dead, Like my black friend is like this dead man who you can make say anything right, And with the thing about you know, he has this huge audy of work in this entire life. It's kind of like if someone maybe this is a poor analogy, but it was like, Oh, I'm like, oh, do you know Outcasts? You know the group Outcasts? Like oh yeah, hey, shake it like a polaroid picture. I'm like, yes. But even one within the song hey You're missed understanding about the entire song is incredibly sad and about the ability of love to last. But there's also other songs Outcast is made, you know, that's so much deeper and more poignant than so Randall, as a writer of the Daily Show, you have what I considered to be the most difficult job in the building, which is to take sadness and make it funny. And so when you when you all were researching this piece and you started digging up all these wonderful, wonderful factoids on Dr King, you know, and how the FBI, you know, they tried to destroy them with wild taps and they call them playing crazy audio. They told him he should kill himself, suggested suicide. But then the FBI's Twitter account gives Dr King a shot out on MLK Day. How I'll do you all in the writer's room juggle the gravity of the situation versus the need to still be able to infuse humor into this topic. Well, I guess it's for me. It's kind of like just focusing on one the honesty of the situation, which is I think like if I think if you just basically look at the reality of what you just said, you know, they tried to have this man killed and then are celebrating him on its face is absurd and heightened to a level that is almost hard to comprehend. And it's kind of in a way with that kind of like the Trump problem, like when something is so ridiculous, how do you heighten that reality. Um, and part of it is too, I guess I like focus on, like some of the reactions of the serious things. So if something is like incredibly serious, incredibly potent and clearly important, it may be a particle hard to joke about that thing in and of itself, but the deflections off of that topic can be somewhere you can go. That's usually where I find a lot of humors. So people's reactions to what the FBI has said is a good source of humor. So it's like kind of like, um, it's hard to stare directly into the sun, but you can get the rays off what the sun provides, you know what I mean. Professor Kendy. The thing that I guess is so amazing to me about Dr King is that he is the one that we're all taught. So I'm a product of the Birmingham City school system. Birmingham is at about a black city. All the city schools are predominantly black, teachers are predominantly black, taught a lot of blackety blackness. We did a lot of field trips to blacketty black stuff. Yet when I look back in reflection on everything, it was a black school system. But it was for sure a white board of education, a white state board of education. And when I look at everything that we were taught, we were just taught the basic hits. You were lucky. If you found out about Marion Anderson, like they talked to you. I always call it suit brother and a flute brother. You would learn a black person who plays an instrument and a black person who wore suit. They didn't teach you about anybody else. How did Dr King become the one that was synonymous with the civil rights movement when there are so many other figures that did things to move the black race forward? And how do we make for a more well rounded civil rights education in this country? Like, can't we misquote other people other than that? Why Dr King the only one we miss quote? Aberanathew said, some dope ship, dude. I mean, I think there's probably two reasons. Without getting in too much show, I think that the first is that, I mean, I think King certainly was an incredibly pivotal figure during during the civil rights movement, and during the movement itself captured much of the media narratives around civil it's when in many cases there were other people who were sort of leading the way, you know, whether we're talking about even the Montgomery sort of bus boycott, which was largely organized by women and it was marked mainly domestics who were boycotting. Of course, King sort of became one of the premier sort of media figures, and and so I think there's that. Then I think the other reason is because how they framed King. So they framed King as Mr. Non violence. They sort of want to essentially just as during the Civil Rights when they want to frame King is non violence Malcolm X's violence, which are of course both flawed, um, and and then they want to frame King as an assimilationist that he was essentially, uh, seeking to integrate into superior white America and you black people, that's which Hell is supposed to be doing, when that's also false. So I think the way they framed King also, you know, is a reason why I think they're they're they're misrepresenting him as opposed to somebody else. I'm curious kind of like with the they you're talking about, is can it be kind of sourced back to some type of specific group or movement to try to edit the history of MLK, or is it more of like a broader just general social movement among people. Well, I mean, one of the ways we could understand the last fifty years is there has been efforts two essentially create race neutrality. This the the you know, particularly you know Americans who once were champions of separate but equal, who are segregating and supporting racial segregation, who were opposing sort of bussing, who were supporting the underfunding of of those majority black school is that that Roy talked about um and and using very explicit ideas about black people, uh to justify them. By the nineties seventies, those very same forces were saying, oh, we're no longer segregationist, but we're committed to racial neutrality. Because what happened is by the sixties you had activists who are like, Okay, we have all this inequality, now we need to eliminate it. And they were like, no, no, no, you know, even though these people need more, if we if we allocate resources based on need, that's quote reverse discrimination. And so in many ways, those very people are are also the people who are trying to to really, as I wrote in a piece recently, the Atlantic engage in the second assassination among the king so to that article The Atlantic article the second Assassination of MLK. You said that quote King's nightmare of racism is being presented as his dream. Is what happening right now in this country? Is this Dr King's nightmare? Like? What do you think when you see Malka's words appropriated in order to serve these various political narratives? Now, I think people forget that By nineteen sixty seven, a year before he was assassinated, King stated that in many cases, my dream has turned into a nightmare. And in one aspect of that nightmare was by nineteen sixty seven, you had so many, particularly young people, but even parents and educators who were pressing, for for instance, African American history, and there was all sorts of opposition to that. Uh. And you know, King actually, in a book in nineteen sixty seven wrote, the history books, which have almost completely ignored the contribution of the new American history, have only served to intensify the Negro sense of worthlessness and to augment the achronistic doctrine of white supremacy. And so King was clearly a supporter of anti racist education, of what's now called critical race theory. But what's ironic is they're using King to oppose the very thing he's supported in his own written writings. Randall, what what role like if we if we talk about this idea of King being the only one that is quoted, what role do we think entertainment plays in it? Because when we think about we talk about like solutions, right, all right? If if the real ship ain't being taught in the schools, and from the looks of it, it it ain't gonna get taught anytime soon depending on how these mid terms go, then is it on the parents to start because you know, I have a five year old and they're already learning about people in kindergarten that they didn't touch on until fifth to sixth grade with me. So in my head, I'm doing the calculations they're gonna run out of black people to teach him about about the second grade? Is it on the parents to supplemented education? And also, you know kind of like what what what role does Hollywood play? Because we go, oh, they quote mL K too much, But when you look at civil rights movies, that's the only one they loved. The green Light. If we're going I'm going way way back. I know it's a little different now, but we're talking twenty to thirty years of black cinema. More often than not, it's just the hits that they cover. What role, random do you think entertainment plays and trying to re educate people? I think it has an important role, um, Like clearly, like you know, Judas in The Black Messiah came out recently. That's probably the first time a lot of Americans probably even heard the name Fred Hampton, you know, or even had the Black Panthers portrayed in a way that wasn't as a terrorist. Like I grew up in the South Agraban, Florida. What you can say is not the South whatever. South, Um, that's super South, that's that's extra strength South. It's it's casfidelity South. And I remember when I was in school, like I learn the Lost Cause theory of the Civil War and like the States Rights theory about Civil War. Like that's what I was taught. And it was through my parents teaching me outside of school about the history of more people than just MLK and George Washington Carver every single year where I got to learn about these people. And so that's me as a black person, like being kind of denied access to my history or just the history of a lot of people from this country with black people, and so I can't even imagine what it's like if you don't come from a black family. And even if you don't come from black family, a lot of them may not take the time to teach you about these things, or maybe they weren't even educated themselves about it. So I guess in that way, entertainment's important. And I think in terms of like people just making another movie about m Okay and another movie about m Okay is just probably in a ways one that it's easy. You know, people already understand who this guy is, and the other ones may be harder to green lights. It's like, look, no, it seems like self perpetuating. You know. I was like, only learned about them, Okay, you only make stuff about them? Okay, so other people want to learn about them, Okay, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Well, after the break, Um, let's let's stay in Florida. Let's talk about your governor Ron De Santis and his latest attempts to ban critical race theory down there in Florida. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. We are talking about conservatives and their loving relationship with Martin Luther King. But only the good part. Just give me a little bit of what he said that I agree with. That's the part that I like. Professor Abraham Kindy RHN de Santis down there in Florida. Um, this man who so he's introduced a stop woke at while quoting MLK in the middle of introducing the app. Do you think about what MLK I stood for? He said he didn't people judged on the color of their skin, but on the content of their character. You listen to some of these people nowadays, they don't talk about that. Is this increased wave of criticism against critical race theories? This is a direct result of heightened support for Black Lives matter, you know, because I feel like, you know, in every movement, I feel like every time black people make some level of progress, there is a degree of backlash. Is what happened with critical race theory? Is this, you know, heightened because of support for Black Lives Matter nationally? Or is it, as MLK referred to it, the white backlash. I think it's it's both. I don't think it's a coincidence that this manufactured critical race theory sort of mania happened in one a year after the series of demonstrations you know, around the country in the summer of tens of millions of people marched and demonstrated against police violence and racism. And by June of one, Pole was stating that as many as seventy six percent of Americans we're recognizing that racism exists and was a major problem. Also, the majority of white Americans for the first time on record, we're also expressing a recognition of racism, you know, and that that problem, and and and so I think that of course there was a very targeted effort to undermine that to say no, racism isn't the problem those people who are saying racism is the problem of the real problem. But I also think that studies show that specifically Trump's base, when you when you compare them to white Democrats or even Republicans who don't necessarily like Trump, they specifically are more likely to believe that white people are the primary victim of racism or that white people are being subjected to racism. So the whole sort of mania around critical race theory is that it's harming white children, that that white children, you know, are basically not an enemy exactly that our teaching force, which is what white is telling white children that they are evil. I mean, that's the sort of idea because and there's a there's a recognition that that idea is very prominent and well believed and will be well received, you know, particularly among Trump spaces. Randall being from Florida, what would you say is the ratio of knowing what you know now about blackness and your identity and the journey of our ancestors. What percentage of that did you learn in home versus learning in Florida's schools? Very little one too. I don't know. This probably the anamber that hasn't been invented yet, and we'll get there one day. That's what I would say. Is pretty much almost all on the home where I learned about blackness and the history of black America up until which is I left. I just had to had to get the hell out of there. I feel like the hypocrisy in this is so perfect because like happened to write whole like two conflicting mantras right there go we love mL K and racism is done. But also let's ban all of mlk's books because what I hate about this is the revisionist history of They the great Dr Martin Luther King, who we must all seventy of y'all hated him back in the sixties. They did a first off, Professor E. Ram I didn't know that they did poles on civil rights leaders. It was like six that King had an appropriate Yeah, like six people hated him. They did not rock. But what he did I just don't understand, you know, because like when you look at what's happening now with's like like this Tennessee group Mom's for Liberty Right. They tried to ban Francescy Ruffin's book on Martin Luther King in the March on Washington. How can you love MLK but also want to ban his teachings? You also have here, you know, Professor Kenny, you have Pennsylvania's Central York School District banning Brad Meltzer's I Am Martin Luther King, Jr. And then two years before that, which you gotta give them credit. Down there in Georgia, you know, they were ahead of the curve on banning some of these books before it became a you know, before it became nationwide. Georgia was doing it loud and proud, after Stacy Abrams almost took the state from him the Columbia County School District in Georgia band nick Stone's Dear Martin, is the CRT debate? Is this just another moment of Americans being able to deny what happened? Like, what is the fear? And just what is it? There we go? What are you fucking afraid of? What are people afraid of? If we dare to turn over these rocks of the past. What motivates this hatred of just facts? We're not even asking for policy that That's what's so wild about this ship. This is not a policy debate. This is just, hey, can we talk about the time that thing happened to us? That time in history? Well, I mean and and even you know, going back to to to Georgia banning next books and nikkas nick Stone is a is a native of Georgia, so then you know, a native of outside of Atlanta. But I think in many ways as it relates to race, this generation and really every generation of Americans have have not necessarily lived in reality. So like us trying to drag people into reality, people imagine that they were they're they're they're trying to be that we're trying to sort of drag them, uh, you know, into something surreal. And and for the first few decades of this country's history, it was widely believed slavery was a necessary evil. By the eighteen thirties to the eighteen sixties, it was widely believe slavery was a positive good. We don't know. Of course, for a hundred years, it was believed that, you know, Birmingham was perfectly separate and equal. And and of course, for the last fifty years, people have imagined we live in a post racial society with racial disparities all around us. So people don't really know how to even imagine their world, even to imagine themselves. Uh, without this denial, uh, you know, without living in this world to make believe as you know, as one writer called it, I can't imagine they even your I mean, in the past few years, we've learned that a lot of people don't even think science is real or sickness when it is effecting at I can't imagine how difficult it must be to have people believe in racism or the effects of our racial history. And so that's kind of something I wanted to say. Yeah, random quickly. I think generally people don't believe in science, but they really don't believe in racial science. They just think I'm just up here talking, you know, just one day I just decided to start talking about race and racism. That I wasn't trained to study this, that this is in my expertise. That people are sharing their views and I'm sharing my views, And that's what really really makes it hard. Dr Kendy when you speak and I know and I'm and I'm sure that you are brought in to talk to a lot of in a lot of capacities, to people that may agree with you and want to learn more, But talk to me a little bit about the confrontational side of this. Because you have the data, you've done, the studies, you have done the research. You're not just someone who was awakened recently and put like you're one of the few people that that that I'll talk to in this podcast who I believe has read every book that is behind you right now, Like because you know, you know, you know, we started doing these shows from home, people started, you know, decorating their bookshelf for arranging their books about you don't read them books you're arranging them about color. That's the first sign that I know you ain't read them. Talk to me about the confrontations that have Do you get confronted by people like after seminars and like even pre COVID, where there was a little bit more face to face where someone wants to challenge you and go, yo, man, that's you're full of it. Oh that I mean, that's that's pretty regular. Little is more so during COVID. M before COVID, I said say, um, but I you know, I actually you know my work. I tried to to to talk about the differences between a producer of a racist idea like a Donald Trump and the consumer, you know, have a racist idea, someone book who have been fed this this lie that let's say the election was stolen by those voters and those black and brown voters in Atlanta, you know, Philadelphia, And when that consumer sort of then repeats that propaganda to me, I try to have that level of sort of empathy to think about that somebody sort of manipulated them into thinking this way, into thinking that that's other people stole their election. And and I think that empathy knowing that none of us are sort of born with ideas that a particular group is dangerous or inferior or stealing election. You know. I try to just remember that when I'm confronted and I try to really ask the person who's who's claiming that they are not racist. I asked them, okay, so how do you define the term racist? If you swear you're not racist, you must be able to find that term, and usually they can't. Before we go to break then here here's my last question. Where does America can pair with other countries educational systems when it comes to like confronting difficult parts of their history. I've been told that Germany don't play that when it comes to Nazi history and the rewriting or the repositioning of what Nazis really were all about. How do how do other countries confront their dark past in their history books. I actually think German is a great example, and I think many Americans are surprised to learn that German children as early as kindergarten, you know, are taught about Nazism, you know, in the Holocaust, and about the truth of of that sort of brutality and and mass murder. Because there's a recognition that if if young people learn about Nazism. If they learn about the ideas, that's trustified it that they will be able to recognize that, and we'll be able to recognize that and prevented from resurfacing. While of course, in comparison United States, we're in denial even about how horrible slavery truly was. I mean, you still have us senators, you know you are. Senator Tom Cotton last year when he was blasting the nineteen projects, insinuated that slavery wasn't necessary evil. Like a home, they had a male, they were safe. Tom Cotton wrote, as the founding father said, slavery was the necessary evil upon which the Union was built. It's it's always something, It's always something. After the break, Let's let's talk about the future. Let's get optimistic after the break and figure out ways that we could infuse of the MLK quotes into these people miles and figure out ways to properly honor Martin Luther King's legacy. This is beyond the scenes. Let's talk solutions. I found this interest in Randall that you know, we have for decades fought four or Martin Luther King day, you know, and to have it be recognized and also sidebar for his face to not be put on club flyers to promote nightclub ignorance. Please stop it, full stop. Sorry, white people, is a black I'm just talking to the black people right now. Okay, we're back there. This poster has a lot of people shaking their heads and discussed. It shows Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Were in a gold chain promoting a party called Freedom to Twerk. It was supposed to take place at this club, but it's been canceled. The owner says he's disgusted and there'll be no twerking here. In all of the fighting for MLK Day, mlk's family recently has called for no celebration of m l K Day without action on voting right to legislation. Is this an effective strategy to try to get people to honor him and provoke change or does this just give conservatives out and just go, well, you don't want MLK Day? Sounds good to me. I as to me, I can appreciate the sentiment, But I maybe y'all do something different. I don't like do anything on MLKA Day. I'm like, this is my day off, Like, I don't know, do you have mL GATE Day fireworks? Or something. I just maybe I've been missing out the last years. But but I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bath wat you know what I'm saying, Like we need we need to revamp how we think of Martin Luther King and how we teach them, but we should keep the day off, you know, and like we shouldn't be tasteless with you know, mattress sales are for black people or something. But it's like, let's keep the sale. But just say, okay, well let's let's go. Let's ask Mr Research Dr Kendy, when you were out and you were shopping and you see them mL kids when it per sent off prices on clothing, do you go out and buy something? And on Dr King? Like, how do you feel about the commercialization of Martin Luther King? Or is that just capitalism? Which is a totally separate podcast episode. I mean, I think that the sad fact is almost everything has been commodified and and you know, including some of our sort of greatest historical figures, you know, like King and so, and that's really as you stated, I mean, that's a function of capitalism and and so I think that's that's a sort of a different type of issue. I think, short of a sale on sniper rifles, I'm okay with the commercialization because at least let me put it this way, Randall, I'm not defended by it, if that makes sense, Like I don't like it, but these are just stupid stores that are just going, what are y'all celebrating? Cool? Let me put that on a flyer next week to sell more sodas or sell more groceries. There will be some sort of they won't call it a George floor It's sale, but it'll be some I get you, mark my words, dog, mark my words. This summer, there's going to be some sort of unity unity sale or some ship it's it's they're not gonna call it George Floyd, but it's gonna oddly be around just a little bit before June teenth, so not a June tenth, but in the ballpark of it. And I think that's where, you know, because like June tenth is is that that's another perfect example, you know, Dr Kendy, where yeah, I wasn't rocking with June teent for real, for real, but then now it's, oh, well, we care about the Blacks, so let's show them that we care. Now you get a day off for June teenth, which I'm happy to have, uh, which I also full disclosure, I think, Trevor, no, what do you give us off? Randall? Two days for June thing? I think, so we got more than a day. Yeah, I don't I understand where that comes from. It's not my favorite thing about Martin Luther King and the way he's been kind of whitewashing, I guess in this into this degree, you know, greenwashed, but you know it. It troubles me. But I think there's far worse issues surrounding his legacy, which to that question, you know, Dr Kendy, how do we properly honor m OK's legacy while also de emphasizing him, Like how do you exalt him and go? But also, you know what I mean, like, you know what it's like again if I'm gonna use the outcast and now, if I take Randall's outcast analogy, Dr King is under three thousand. But don't forget big boy has some bars too. I think maybe one of the ways is, you know, if people want to talk about and I know about King, we can sort of meet them where they are. So okay, let's talk about you know, Martha King, let's talk about Southern Christian Leadership Conference in the world. Ellen Baker played in the building of that organization, or and so we can use King to not only sort of describe his specific legacy and his message, but also to teach about other sort of historical figures who worked with him, who thought in the ways that he did, or even who thought differently. Um, and I think that's maybe an effective way to sort of honor King, to really sort of honor the whole movement and really honor the longstanding movement of black people to be free. What do you think I and I hate this question, but I only hear white people asked it. So I'm going to ask you as a black person, I'm gonna ask both of you. So, Randall, what do you think Dr King would have to say about these times that we're in right now? Oh? Thank you white white? No? Like seriously, like, if Dr King had a Twitter account, If he had a Twitter account, First off, do you think he would responding to trolls? I think he would want just because he'd be an old dude and he wouldn't really get technology, Like he'd force he tweet important stuff. But then he be like I got stanned by the Nigerian prince again. You know, like though there be of course that comes to the age. It takes everybody, doesn't matter who you are. But if he had a Twitter, yeah, I feel like you would respond to the the day's events and we do because the way that you framed it, I guess is like they would think that everything is going on is bad. And I just be like, well, bro, if you actually do care, if this isn't just you trying to like getting my mentions of today, I'd be like, read just two other speeches by him, just two other things, like read letter from Birmingham Gent, you know, and see how he thinks about like white moderation or something like that, and just be like, just do the smallest amount of work possible. Dr KNDy. If Martin Luther King was on MSNBC tonight, you know, four bucks arguing with two other conservatives and jewelry reader Tiffany Cross. Um, I'm just just being selling, but like seriously, like because there's so much that's happening now that I feel like compares to his day. Like we talk about Karen's calling the cops on black people. You don't think white women wouldn't calling the cops on black folks when they was marching and they win suits. Yeah, what would what would dr That's a good one. What would he have to say about Rachel Dolazal claiming she's black? Would you could just be welcome to the movement condo sorto black stuff? I mean, well, King grew up in a black community, went to a black church, went to a black college. Um, and so you know, I think I actually would wonder what he would say about about somebody who considers themselves transracial. But but I also think, you know, he would say, like tonight on Joyce Show, he would say, as I stated in in nineteen sixt read the Philipbuster is is a tool of Jim Crow. And the fact that we have Democratic politicians who are refusing to do away with this tool of Jim Crow that I've literally fought my whole career. The fact that you have Republicans who are honoring me at the same time they refused to do away with what I fought against my whole career. You know, it's the height of hypocrisy. And who the hell used my voice for that dodge called commercial I did not authorize. It's just it's just so fun to do with voice. Man. It's just I think that's another reason quartum all time, because it's fun. We have done beyond the scenes. We have done it. Dr Abrahm x, kimdet thank you so much for coming on the show. Randall otis as well, Thank you so so much for coming on the show. Thank you Roy, Thank you Randall. Let me know when y'all get that racism stuff solid Dan Boston, Dr Kendy swing back. You know we didn't talk about that next time because they got the new mayor. Y'all got the new mayor, got a minority mayor and a woman show. Yeah, indeed, all right, thank you to take care of y'all. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Even if you get him in the back alley, we're there, you know. Frank knows us h

Hey, Welcome to Beyond the Scenes. This is the podcast that goes deeper into savings and topics that have originally aired on The Daily Show at Trevor Noah. I am roy Wood Jr. Per as usual this podcast. You know, you don't beyond the scenes. It's like, this is like when you order a milkshake and they make too much milkshake and they give you that little extra bit of milkshake. You're not like, they eat the milk shake and then they eat the cup they made the milkshake in. It's got a little bit of a corner. That's a Southern measurement of liquid. They give you a little extra corner of milkshake. Is two milkshakes for the price of one. That's what this podcast is like. We are overflowing with informational goodness that might give your brain freeze. Now, in honor of Dr Reverend Martin Luther the King Day, we're taking a look at the life and legacy of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. The appropriation of his message, his influence in today's pop culture, and all things of that nature. Today I'm joined by Daily Show writer Randall Otis. Randall as always great to have you own? How you doing, pimpin, I'm doing good. You know, got covids, so I don't have to worry about that for another month at least. Well, you know what they say, Randall, You're not a real New York City stand up comedian if you haven't caught COVID. So welcome to the party, Pale. It's also I'm also joined by New York Times bestselling author of the book How to Be An Anti Racist and also stamped from the Beginning The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America. He is a historian and the director of Boston University's Center for Anti Racist Research, Professor Abram X. Kendy. Professor Kendy, how are you doing today? I'm good. I'm still still running from from COVID. I'm trying well. If it's anything like the NYPD, eventually it will stop you for questioning were avoiding it. Thank you so much for being on the show. Before we get into the topic at hand today, which is Dr Martin Luther, Reverend the King, and the way a lot of people cherry pick pieces of his message to fit their narrative. You have dedicated your life to trying to educate and get people to understand here's how we correct, here's how we reverse this terrible cancer on this country. What the hell do you do to relax? Man? What is your what is like? You know people? You know? Do you know people? What's your spy routine? What's your woosa? What does professor Kindy do to unwind? And just take a breath from this so that the same great helps uh each night? Um? I think I also try not to take things personally, and so certainly when people are degrading black people, I don't take it personally as if there's something wrong with with me. People like me, I recognize them as a problem. But even when people are personally attacking sort of me and my work from bad faith, I also just try not to take it personally and try to be focused, you know, in transformation. So when we talk about Martin Luther King Jr's birthday and the fact that it's now a national holiday, it's it's are they are they observing it yet in Arizona? Are we still forty nine states county? I don't know. It's like everyone knows that I have a dream speech, and that's the one that's kind of the it's the most quoted of all of his many many quotables, but that was only a small part of his complex legacy. Um, I'll start with you, Professor Kendy, what parts of Dr King's legacy, in your opinion, are often overlooked? Well, I mean, even if you take the mL E the I have a Dreams speech, and and the line that is often quoted that at that King's dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of the character. People disregard what he said directly before that and directly after it, which in which he lamented that his dream is being threwarded by vicious racists in places like Mississippi, which are sweltering with the heat of oppression. Can you imagine if if I say that today, right, you know that that's a problem. But but then somehow, and so I think there's so much of of of kings sort of legacy, the fact that he simultaneously recognized racism and spoke out about racism as the problem, but then also recognized how racism itself it wasn't just sort of harming black people, it was harming America, it was harming democracy, and it was dividing people, and he wanted to bring people together. And he saw anti racism as as as a unifying sort of praxis the way you've just so eloquently explained that, Hey, you know, right before that line and right after that line, he says some other stuff you should look into. Why are people why do people cherry pick that? Why are people in denial about the other parts of who Dr? King was? Like he was against the Vietnam War. Why has that never brought up? I mean, it's it's striking. I mean, you know they not only was King against the Vietnam War, but when he came out against the Vietnam War, I believe April fourth, ninety seven, he stated in a speech that the United States government is the greatest purveyor of violence on the face of this earth. And and you know, you know, again he was very clear about even the relationship between imperialism, military sort of warfare, human division, you know, in racism, and and I think I'm I'm personal the sort of bother. Just because he said so much more than that, I have a dream speech in that single line. But we of course missed that because we try to people try to use King uh to justify their own not racism, or that we should be race neutral as a nation, which I'm still trying to figure out what that even means. What I would love to do is play you a clip of conservatives who have appropriated Mlk's message. Let's just let's just let's just listen to a run of conservatives quoting Dr King. Dr King would not participate in a Black Lives Matter protest. The Great MLK said there, you have a moral obligation to object to unjust rules and rules that make no sense. One of my favorite quotes from Dr King was, now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. You think of how he changed a marr cha. He inspired us to change through the legislative process to become a more perfect union. That's exactly what President Trump is calling on the Congress to do today. I'm asking my colleagues to remember the words of the legendary, the great leader in this country, Dr Martin Luther King, who once said the time is always right to do what is right. And I just want to leave you with the quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. That we must learn to live together as brothers, or we will perish together as fools. Thank you. Critical race theory is a Marxist doctor that rejects the vision of Martin Luther King Jr. Critical race theory. Here it goes against everything Martin Luther King has ever told us, don't judge us by the color of our skin, And now they're embracing it, right, They're going backwards. He's kind of like everyone's um dead, Like my black friend is like this dead man who you can make say anything right, And with the thing about you know, he has this huge audy of work in this entire life. It's kind of like if someone maybe this is a poor analogy, but it was like, Oh, I'm like, oh, do you know Outcasts? You know the group Outcasts? Like oh yeah, hey, shake it like a polaroid picture. I'm like, yes. But even one within the song hey You're missed understanding about the entire song is incredibly sad and about the ability of love to last. But there's also other songs Outcast is made, you know, that's so much deeper and more poignant than so Randall, as a writer of the Daily Show, you have what I considered to be the most difficult job in the building, which is to take sadness and make it funny. And so when you when you all were researching this piece and you started digging up all these wonderful, wonderful factoids on Dr King, you know, and how the FBI, you know, they tried to destroy them with wild taps and they call them playing crazy audio. They told him he should kill himself, suggested suicide. But then the FBI's Twitter account gives Dr King a shot out on MLK Day. How I'll do you all in the writer's room juggle the gravity of the situation versus the need to still be able to infuse humor into this topic. Well, I guess it's for me. It's kind of like just focusing on one the honesty of the situation, which is I think like if I think if you just basically look at the reality of what you just said, you know, they tried to have this man killed and then are celebrating him on its face is absurd and heightened to a level that is almost hard to comprehend. And it's kind of in a way with that kind of like the Trump problem, like when something is so ridiculous, how do you heighten that reality. Um, and part of it is too, I guess I like focus on, like some of the reactions of the serious things. So if something is like incredibly serious, incredibly potent and clearly important, it may be a particle hard to joke about that thing in and of itself, but the deflections off of that topic can be somewhere you can go. That's usually where I find a lot of humors. So people's reactions to what the FBI has said is a good source of humor. So it's like kind of like, um, it's hard to stare directly into the sun, but you can get the rays off what the sun provides, you know what I mean. Professor Kendy. The thing that I guess is so amazing to me about Dr King is that he is the one that we're all taught. So I'm a product of the Birmingham City school system. Birmingham is at about a black city. All the city schools are predominantly black, teachers are predominantly black, taught a lot of blackety blackness. We did a lot of field trips to blacketty black stuff. Yet when I look back in reflection on everything, it was a black school system. But it was for sure a white board of education, a white state board of education. And when I look at everything that we were taught, we were just taught the basic hits. You were lucky. If you found out about Marion Anderson, like they talked to you. I always call it suit brother and a flute brother. You would learn a black person who plays an instrument and a black person who wore suit. They didn't teach you about anybody else. How did Dr King become the one that was synonymous with the civil rights movement when there are so many other figures that did things to move the black race forward? And how do we make for a more well rounded civil rights education in this country? Like, can't we misquote other people other than that? Why Dr King the only one we miss quote? Aberanathew said, some dope ship, dude. I mean, I think there's probably two reasons. Without getting in too much show, I think that the first is that, I mean, I think King certainly was an incredibly pivotal figure during during the civil rights movement, and during the movement itself captured much of the media narratives around civil it's when in many cases there were other people who were sort of leading the way, you know, whether we're talking about even the Montgomery sort of bus boycott, which was largely organized by women and it was marked mainly domestics who were boycotting. Of course, King sort of became one of the premier sort of media figures, and and so I think there's that. Then I think the other reason is because how they framed King. So they framed King as Mr. Non violence. They sort of want to essentially just as during the Civil Rights when they want to frame King is non violence Malcolm X's violence, which are of course both flawed, um, and and then they want to frame King as an assimilationist that he was essentially, uh, seeking to integrate into superior white America and you black people, that's which Hell is supposed to be doing, when that's also false. So I think the way they framed King also, you know, is a reason why I think they're they're they're misrepresenting him as opposed to somebody else. I'm curious kind of like with the they you're talking about, is can it be kind of sourced back to some type of specific group or movement to try to edit the history of MLK, or is it more of like a broader just general social movement among people. Well, I mean, one of the ways we could understand the last fifty years is there has been efforts two essentially create race neutrality. This the the you know, particularly you know Americans who once were champions of separate but equal, who are segregating and supporting racial segregation, who were opposing sort of bussing, who were supporting the underfunding of of those majority black school is that that Roy talked about um and and using very explicit ideas about black people, uh to justify them. By the nineties seventies, those very same forces were saying, oh, we're no longer segregationist, but we're committed to racial neutrality. Because what happened is by the sixties you had activists who are like, Okay, we have all this inequality, now we need to eliminate it. And they were like, no, no, no, you know, even though these people need more, if we if we allocate resources based on need, that's quote reverse discrimination. And so in many ways, those very people are are also the people who are trying to to really, as I wrote in a piece recently, the Atlantic engage in the second assassination among the king so to that article The Atlantic article the second Assassination of MLK. You said that quote King's nightmare of racism is being presented as his dream. Is what happening right now in this country? Is this Dr King's nightmare? Like? What do you think when you see Malka's words appropriated in order to serve these various political narratives? Now, I think people forget that By nineteen sixty seven, a year before he was assassinated, King stated that in many cases, my dream has turned into a nightmare. And in one aspect of that nightmare was by nineteen sixty seven, you had so many, particularly young people, but even parents and educators who were pressing, for for instance, African American history, and there was all sorts of opposition to that. Uh. And you know, King actually, in a book in nineteen sixty seven wrote, the history books, which have almost completely ignored the contribution of the new American history, have only served to intensify the Negro sense of worthlessness and to augment the achronistic doctrine of white supremacy. And so King was clearly a supporter of anti racist education, of what's now called critical race theory. But what's ironic is they're using King to oppose the very thing he's supported in his own written writings. Randall, what what role like if we if we talk about this idea of King being the only one that is quoted, what role do we think entertainment plays in it? Because when we think about we talk about like solutions, right, all right? If if the real ship ain't being taught in the schools, and from the looks of it, it it ain't gonna get taught anytime soon depending on how these mid terms go, then is it on the parents to start because you know, I have a five year old and they're already learning about people in kindergarten that they didn't touch on until fifth to sixth grade with me. So in my head, I'm doing the calculations they're gonna run out of black people to teach him about about the second grade? Is it on the parents to supplemented education? And also, you know kind of like what what what role does Hollywood play? Because we go, oh, they quote mL K too much, But when you look at civil rights movies, that's the only one they loved. The green Light. If we're going I'm going way way back. I know it's a little different now, but we're talking twenty to thirty years of black cinema. More often than not, it's just the hits that they cover. What role, random do you think entertainment plays and trying to re educate people? I think it has an important role, um, Like clearly, like you know, Judas in The Black Messiah came out recently. That's probably the first time a lot of Americans probably even heard the name Fred Hampton, you know, or even had the Black Panthers portrayed in a way that wasn't as a terrorist. Like I grew up in the South Agraban, Florida. What you can say is not the South whatever. South, Um, that's super South, that's that's extra strength South. It's it's casfidelity South. And I remember when I was in school, like I learn the Lost Cause theory of the Civil War and like the States Rights theory about Civil War. Like that's what I was taught. And it was through my parents teaching me outside of school about the history of more people than just MLK and George Washington Carver every single year where I got to learn about these people. And so that's me as a black person, like being kind of denied access to my history or just the history of a lot of people from this country with black people, and so I can't even imagine what it's like if you don't come from a black family. And even if you don't come from black family, a lot of them may not take the time to teach you about these things, or maybe they weren't even educated themselves about it. So I guess in that way, entertainment's important. And I think in terms of like people just making another movie about m Okay and another movie about m Okay is just probably in a ways one that it's easy. You know, people already understand who this guy is, and the other ones may be harder to green lights. It's like, look, no, it seems like self perpetuating. You know. I was like, only learned about them, Okay, you only make stuff about them? Okay, so other people want to learn about them, Okay, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Well, after the break, Um, let's let's stay in Florida. Let's talk about your governor Ron De Santis and his latest attempts to ban critical race theory down there in Florida. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. We are talking about conservatives and their loving relationship with Martin Luther King. But only the good part. Just give me a little bit of what he said that I agree with. That's the part that I like. Professor Abraham Kindy RHN de Santis down there in Florida. Um, this man who so he's introduced a stop woke at while quoting MLK in the middle of introducing the app. Do you think about what MLK I stood for? He said he didn't people judged on the color of their skin, but on the content of their character. You listen to some of these people nowadays, they don't talk about that. Is this increased wave of criticism against critical race theories? This is a direct result of heightened support for Black Lives matter, you know, because I feel like, you know, in every movement, I feel like every time black people make some level of progress, there is a degree of backlash. Is what happened with critical race theory? Is this, you know, heightened because of support for Black Lives Matter nationally? Or is it, as MLK referred to it, the white backlash. I think it's it's both. I don't think it's a coincidence that this manufactured critical race theory sort of mania happened in one a year after the series of demonstrations you know, around the country in the summer of tens of millions of people marched and demonstrated against police violence and racism. And by June of one, Pole was stating that as many as seventy six percent of Americans we're recognizing that racism exists and was a major problem. Also, the majority of white Americans for the first time on record, we're also expressing a recognition of racism, you know, and that that problem, and and and so I think that of course there was a very targeted effort to undermine that to say no, racism isn't the problem those people who are saying racism is the problem of the real problem. But I also think that studies show that specifically Trump's base, when you when you compare them to white Democrats or even Republicans who don't necessarily like Trump, they specifically are more likely to believe that white people are the primary victim of racism or that white people are being subjected to racism. So the whole sort of mania around critical race theory is that it's harming white children, that that white children, you know, are basically not an enemy exactly that our teaching force, which is what white is telling white children that they are evil. I mean, that's the sort of idea because and there's a there's a recognition that that idea is very prominent and well believed and will be well received, you know, particularly among Trump spaces. Randall being from Florida, what would you say is the ratio of knowing what you know now about blackness and your identity and the journey of our ancestors. What percentage of that did you learn in home versus learning in Florida's schools? Very little one too. I don't know. This probably the anamber that hasn't been invented yet, and we'll get there one day. That's what I would say. Is pretty much almost all on the home where I learned about blackness and the history of black America up until which is I left. I just had to had to get the hell out of there. I feel like the hypocrisy in this is so perfect because like happened to write whole like two conflicting mantras right there go we love mL K and racism is done. But also let's ban all of mlk's books because what I hate about this is the revisionist history of They the great Dr Martin Luther King, who we must all seventy of y'all hated him back in the sixties. They did a first off, Professor E. Ram I didn't know that they did poles on civil rights leaders. It was like six that King had an appropriate Yeah, like six people hated him. They did not rock. But what he did I just don't understand, you know, because like when you look at what's happening now with's like like this Tennessee group Mom's for Liberty Right. They tried to ban Francescy Ruffin's book on Martin Luther King in the March on Washington. How can you love MLK but also want to ban his teachings? You also have here, you know, Professor Kenny, you have Pennsylvania's Central York School District banning Brad Meltzer's I Am Martin Luther King, Jr. And then two years before that, which you gotta give them credit. Down there in Georgia, you know, they were ahead of the curve on banning some of these books before it became a you know, before it became nationwide. Georgia was doing it loud and proud, after Stacy Abrams almost took the state from him the Columbia County School District in Georgia band nick Stone's Dear Martin, is the CRT debate? Is this just another moment of Americans being able to deny what happened? Like, what is the fear? And just what is it? There we go? What are you fucking afraid of? What are people afraid of? If we dare to turn over these rocks of the past. What motivates this hatred of just facts? We're not even asking for policy that That's what's so wild about this ship. This is not a policy debate. This is just, hey, can we talk about the time that thing happened to us? That time in history? Well, I mean and and even you know, going back to to to Georgia banning next books and nikkas nick Stone is a is a native of Georgia, so then you know, a native of outside of Atlanta. But I think in many ways as it relates to race, this generation and really every generation of Americans have have not necessarily lived in reality. So like us trying to drag people into reality, people imagine that they were they're they're they're trying to be that we're trying to sort of drag them, uh, you know, into something surreal. And and for the first few decades of this country's history, it was widely believed slavery was a necessary evil. By the eighteen thirties to the eighteen sixties, it was widely believe slavery was a positive good. We don't know. Of course, for a hundred years, it was believed that, you know, Birmingham was perfectly separate and equal. And and of course, for the last fifty years, people have imagined we live in a post racial society with racial disparities all around us. So people don't really know how to even imagine their world, even to imagine themselves. Uh, without this denial, uh, you know, without living in this world to make believe as you know, as one writer called it, I can't imagine they even your I mean, in the past few years, we've learned that a lot of people don't even think science is real or sickness when it is effecting at I can't imagine how difficult it must be to have people believe in racism or the effects of our racial history. And so that's kind of something I wanted to say. Yeah, random quickly. I think generally people don't believe in science, but they really don't believe in racial science. They just think I'm just up here talking, you know, just one day I just decided to start talking about race and racism. That I wasn't trained to study this, that this is in my expertise. That people are sharing their views and I'm sharing my views, And that's what really really makes it hard. Dr Kendy when you speak and I know and I'm and I'm sure that you are brought in to talk to a lot of in a lot of capacities, to people that may agree with you and want to learn more, But talk to me a little bit about the confrontational side of this. Because you have the data, you've done, the studies, you have done the research. You're not just someone who was awakened recently and put like you're one of the few people that that that I'll talk to in this podcast who I believe has read every book that is behind you right now, Like because you know, you know, you know, we started doing these shows from home, people started, you know, decorating their bookshelf for arranging their books about you don't read them books you're arranging them about color. That's the first sign that I know you ain't read them. Talk to me about the confrontations that have Do you get confronted by people like after seminars and like even pre COVID, where there was a little bit more face to face where someone wants to challenge you and go, yo, man, that's you're full of it. Oh that I mean, that's that's pretty regular. Little is more so during COVID. M before COVID, I said say, um, but I you know, I actually you know my work. I tried to to to talk about the differences between a producer of a racist idea like a Donald Trump and the consumer, you know, have a racist idea, someone book who have been fed this this lie that let's say the election was stolen by those voters and those black and brown voters in Atlanta, you know, Philadelphia, And when that consumer sort of then repeats that propaganda to me, I try to have that level of sort of empathy to think about that somebody sort of manipulated them into thinking this way, into thinking that that's other people stole their election. And and I think that empathy knowing that none of us are sort of born with ideas that a particular group is dangerous or inferior or stealing election. You know. I try to just remember that when I'm confronted and I try to really ask the person who's who's claiming that they are not racist. I asked them, okay, so how do you define the term racist? If you swear you're not racist, you must be able to find that term, and usually they can't. Before we go to break then here here's my last question. Where does America can pair with other countries educational systems when it comes to like confronting difficult parts of their history. I've been told that Germany don't play that when it comes to Nazi history and the rewriting or the repositioning of what Nazis really were all about. How do how do other countries confront their dark past in their history books. I actually think German is a great example, and I think many Americans are surprised to learn that German children as early as kindergarten, you know, are taught about Nazism, you know, in the Holocaust, and about the truth of of that sort of brutality and and mass murder. Because there's a recognition that if if young people learn about Nazism. If they learn about the ideas, that's trustified it that they will be able to recognize that, and we'll be able to recognize that and prevented from resurfacing. While of course, in comparison United States, we're in denial even about how horrible slavery truly was. I mean, you still have us senators, you know you are. Senator Tom Cotton last year when he was blasting the nineteen projects, insinuated that slavery wasn't necessary evil. Like a home, they had a male, they were safe. Tom Cotton wrote, as the founding father said, slavery was the necessary evil upon which the Union was built. It's it's always something, It's always something. After the break, Let's let's talk about the future. Let's get optimistic after the break and figure out ways that we could infuse of the MLK quotes into these people miles and figure out ways to properly honor Martin Luther King's legacy. This is beyond the scenes. Let's talk solutions. I found this interest in Randall that you know, we have for decades fought four or Martin Luther King day, you know, and to have it be recognized and also sidebar for his face to not be put on club flyers to promote nightclub ignorance. Please stop it, full stop. Sorry, white people, is a black I'm just talking to the black people right now. Okay, we're back there. This poster has a lot of people shaking their heads and discussed. It shows Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Were in a gold chain promoting a party called Freedom to Twerk. It was supposed to take place at this club, but it's been canceled. The owner says he's disgusted and there'll be no twerking here. In all of the fighting for MLK Day, mlk's family recently has called for no celebration of m l K Day without action on voting right to legislation. Is this an effective strategy to try to get people to honor him and provoke change or does this just give conservatives out and just go, well, you don't want MLK Day? Sounds good to me. I as to me, I can appreciate the sentiment, But I maybe y'all do something different. I don't like do anything on MLKA Day. I'm like, this is my day off, Like, I don't know, do you have mL GATE Day fireworks? Or something. I just maybe I've been missing out the last years. But but I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bath wat you know what I'm saying, Like we need we need to revamp how we think of Martin Luther King and how we teach them, but we should keep the day off, you know, and like we shouldn't be tasteless with you know, mattress sales are for black people or something. But it's like, let's keep the sale. But just say, okay, well let's let's go. Let's ask Mr Research Dr Kendy, when you were out and you were shopping and you see them mL kids when it per sent off prices on clothing, do you go out and buy something? And on Dr King? Like, how do you feel about the commercialization of Martin Luther King? Or is that just capitalism? Which is a totally separate podcast episode. I mean, I think that the sad fact is almost everything has been commodified and and you know, including some of our sort of greatest historical figures, you know, like King and so, and that's really as you stated, I mean, that's a function of capitalism and and so I think that's that's a sort of a different type of issue. I think, short of a sale on sniper rifles, I'm okay with the commercialization because at least let me put it this way, Randall, I'm not defended by it, if that makes sense, Like I don't like it, but these are just stupid stores that are just going, what are y'all celebrating? Cool? Let me put that on a flyer next week to sell more sodas or sell more groceries. There will be some sort of they won't call it a George floor It's sale, but it'll be some I get you, mark my words, dog, mark my words. This summer, there's going to be some sort of unity unity sale or some ship it's it's they're not gonna call it George Floyd, but it's gonna oddly be around just a little bit before June teenth, so not a June tenth, but in the ballpark of it. And I think that's where, you know, because like June tenth is is that that's another perfect example, you know, Dr Kendy, where yeah, I wasn't rocking with June teent for real, for real, but then now it's, oh, well, we care about the Blacks, so let's show them that we care. Now you get a day off for June teenth, which I'm happy to have, uh, which I also full disclosure, I think, Trevor, no, what do you give us off? Randall? Two days for June thing? I think, so we got more than a day. Yeah, I don't I understand where that comes from. It's not my favorite thing about Martin Luther King and the way he's been kind of whitewashing, I guess in this into this degree, you know, greenwashed, but you know it. It troubles me. But I think there's far worse issues surrounding his legacy, which to that question, you know, Dr Kendy, how do we properly honor m OK's legacy while also de emphasizing him, Like how do you exalt him and go? But also, you know what I mean, like, you know what it's like again if I'm gonna use the outcast and now, if I take Randall's outcast analogy, Dr King is under three thousand. But don't forget big boy has some bars too. I think maybe one of the ways is, you know, if people want to talk about and I know about King, we can sort of meet them where they are. So okay, let's talk about you know, Martha King, let's talk about Southern Christian Leadership Conference in the world. Ellen Baker played in the building of that organization, or and so we can use King to not only sort of describe his specific legacy and his message, but also to teach about other sort of historical figures who worked with him, who thought in the ways that he did, or even who thought differently. Um, and I think that's maybe an effective way to sort of honor King, to really sort of honor the whole movement and really honor the longstanding movement of black people to be free. What do you think I and I hate this question, but I only hear white people asked it. So I'm going to ask you as a black person, I'm gonna ask both of you. So, Randall, what do you think Dr King would have to say about these times that we're in right now? Oh? Thank you white white? No? Like seriously, like, if Dr King had a Twitter account, If he had a Twitter account, First off, do you think he would responding to trolls? I think he would want just because he'd be an old dude and he wouldn't really get technology, Like he'd force he tweet important stuff. But then he be like I got stanned by the Nigerian prince again. You know, like though there be of course that comes to the age. It takes everybody, doesn't matter who you are. But if he had a Twitter, yeah, I feel like you would respond to the the day's events and we do because the way that you framed it, I guess is like they would think that everything is going on is bad. And I just be like, well, bro, if you actually do care, if this isn't just you trying to like getting my mentions of today, I'd be like, read just two other speeches by him, just two other things, like read letter from Birmingham Gent, you know, and see how he thinks about like white moderation or something like that, and just be like, just do the smallest amount of work possible. Dr KNDy. If Martin Luther King was on MSNBC tonight, you know, four bucks arguing with two other conservatives and jewelry reader Tiffany Cross. Um, I'm just just being selling, but like seriously, like because there's so much that's happening now that I feel like compares to his day. Like we talk about Karen's calling the cops on black people. You don't think white women wouldn't calling the cops on black folks when they was marching and they win suits. Yeah, what would what would dr That's a good one. What would he have to say about Rachel Dolazal claiming she's black? Would you could just be welcome to the movement condo sorto black stuff? I mean, well, King grew up in a black community, went to a black church, went to a black college. Um, and so you know, I think I actually would wonder what he would say about about somebody who considers themselves transracial. But but I also think, you know, he would say, like tonight on Joyce Show, he would say, as I stated in in nineteen sixt read the Philipbuster is is a tool of Jim Crow. And the fact that we have Democratic politicians who are refusing to do away with this tool of Jim Crow that I've literally fought my whole career. The fact that you have Republicans who are honoring me at the same time they refused to do away with what I fought against my whole career. You know, it's the height of hypocrisy. And who the hell used my voice for that dodge called commercial I did not authorize. It's just it's just so fun to do with voice. Man. It's just I think that's another reason quartum all time, because it's fun. We have done beyond the scenes. We have done it. Dr Abrahm x, kimdet thank you so much for coming on the show. Randall otis as well, Thank you so so much for coming on the show. Thank you Roy, Thank you Randall. Let me know when y'all get that racism stuff solid Dan Boston, Dr Kendy swing back. You know we didn't talk about that next time because they got the new mayor. Y'all got the new mayor, got a minority mayor and a woman show. Yeah, indeed, all right, thank you to take care of y'all. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Even if you get him in the back alley, we're there, you know. Frank knows us h