The History of Black Horror Movies

Published Oct 18, 2022, 7:01 AM

In honor of Halloween season, host Roy Wood Jr. takes us back to his discussion on the roles Black actors are typecast into in horror movies and how Black filmmakers work to expand these roles beyond their stereotypes. He sits with Daily Show writer Ashton Womack, filmmaker and executive producer of Shudder’s Horror Noire documentary Tananarive Due, author and screenwriter Steven Barnes, and author and educator Dr. Robin R. Means Coleman to break down the history and evolution of Black horror.  

 

Watch the Original Segment: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCUDmZ11k0w

Hey, what's up, y'all. It's Roy Wood Jr. Now, Halloween is coming up, and to help get you all in the move for the holiday, we're revisiting a Beyond the Scenes episode on the history of black horror. Yeah, I know they're gonna put an echo on it, and they didn't do it to give it an echo. See, it was scary that time. In this episode, I sit down with Daily Show writer Ashton Womack, filmmaker Tanano, Reeve Due, author and screenwriter Stephen Barnes, and author and educator Dr Robin ar Means Coleman, and together we all talk about influential movies from the black horror genre. We discussed the common roles black people take on in these movies and how these roles have changed over time. Check it out, Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. This is the Daily Show podcast that goes a little deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on the show. Baby. Basically, this this this is what this podcast is, right all right? You ever get like an entree and then they throw in a free dessert, you know what, like an Applebee's they but like congratulations on finishing your steak. Peter pocket chicken nugget potato skins. You now get a free slice of chocolate cake that's been frozen in the freezer for three weeks. That's what this podcasts like this. The Daily Show is your half rack of ribs, and then this podcast is that free ice cream Sunday you get. I got to just stop talking about food. Listen. Today's topic is one that we discussed on the Daily Show. I actually discussed it. Uh. It was about you know, black culture and scary movies and monumental filmmaking. We wrapped it all up into one segment and I did that on CEP time. So yes, today we are talking about black horror. Roll the clip. When you think of black horror, you think of hits like Get Out, Well, this year's remake of candy Man, which reminds me speaking speaking of that, candy Man, candy Man, Candy Man, Candy Man, Candy Man. I knew we wouldn't show up Cheap Bastard on me fifty dollars, but we wouldn't have Jordan's Peel if it weren't for the pioneering black horror films that today are mostly forgotten movies like Son of a Gag which in y became the first horror film to feature an all black cast, and unlike a Medea Halloween, they were all played by different people. Son of a Gay book stereotypes by showing a black middle class family battling a monster in their home, paving the way for the Windsdal family to do the same thing against Steve herkel Well Suspenders. So a little later, we're gonna be joined by some wonderful, wonderful panelists who are extremely qualified to talk about the subject at large. But first I want to bring in my friend and Daily Show writer Ashton Womack, who helped put the segment together on air. Ashton, how are you doing? Do you have O Macron? No? I am doing fine, I said that backwards. I'm doing great. No, I don't have Homecrown. I am COVID free and yeah, no, enjoying myself. How you been named? Still waiting on a PCR result from Martin Luther King Weekend. Anyway, let's begin our conversation Aston, what's your relationship with horror movies in general? Let's just start there because I can't say your relationship with black horror because that wasn't what was pushed on us where we when we were young, black horror existed, Black people in horror movies, but there wasn't no Jordan Peel back in ninety two. Well, I'm older, back in eighty two. He existed in ninety two, though, he was like, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. So what are what's your relationship with horror? You're a fan of the genre in general. I'm not a horror movies. You know they're not I'm not a huge fan. But you said, like, I did get introduced to horror movies through basically black horror movies, through Tales from the Hood through Candy Man. What feels like. I mean, I didn't know they were black horror movies at the time. That is what my family was watching. So we was watching. Uh. I know, people say Tells from the Crypt ain't black, but something about something about him, yeah, something about I don't know. I don't know if this will make sense or not. I enjoy I enjoy thrillers, but horror is more difficult for me, especially if it's the I call it the mind funk horror, where you can't see the thing that's killing everybody the two acts and they don't reveal it until the magical third part of the movie. So as a child, I had night terrors, which, if you're not familiar with that Daily Show audience, night terrors are when your brain is awake but your body still sleep and then it's one of the most hallucinated field experiences you'll ever go on without narcotics. So I went to see Gremlins, uh the o g gremlinsight five maybe, and my aunt. I love my Aunt JP. But for whatever reason, bro, she fucking she bought me the stripe, the green grim Why would you buy me the villain that's what by the gizmo by the good guy. But she bought me a stuffed animal stripe. And so I would have these bouts with sleep paralysis where I would wake up and I would just see shadows on the wall. And after she bought me that stripe, um stuffed animal, I know what I saw. I was there when I saw it. It walked down off the bookshelf and pointed at me like on some If you'd ever tell anybody I did this ship to your mother, I'll kill you. And then it crawled back up on the bookshelf and never moved again. Morning Trash Trash. Also, I believe in ghosts. So for me, like in real life and some real life ship, do you sleep with all the lights on? Now, I'm a hug But so when I watch movies about the supernatural, and like The Exorcists, I've never finished because it was too scary, which I guess is a compliment to the film. You know, some of the Stephen King stuff I could rock with. You know, tell Us from the Hood I could rock with. Like I appreciated that, but I'm not like I know people who only see horror, who only watch horror, and I appreciate the genre, but it's it's a very delicate balance. If you only watch horror, you need to talk to a specialist because that is not a healthy diet entertainment you can't only watch. That's saying something. That's like when you put uh, you ask a little kid to draw and they just draw like this is mommy getting stabbed by that are this kid needs to be talked to you. So when we did this thing for CP time, and I'll tell you the impetus for where I wanted to go with with this piece, and we can talk more about the idea, the ideation of it and everything. But I don't know how I got down this rabbit hole, but all Halloween comes out and Halloween h two. Oh, if I'm not mistaken, the one with the Llo Cooljallo cool J get shot, he lives and I and just as a joke, I go wild. That's funny. Llo cool J didn't die? Is a brother didn't die? I wonder if other people haven't done because Llo cool J ever dine. And then I went through Llo cool J's entire IMDb and he's never died on the camera. The only one you can maybe argue was Rollerball, but they never showed the body. So then I remembered in screen to that Omar Epps died before the opening credits Omar EPs and J. D. Pinkett Smith mm hm. So I was like, that's got to be the quickest depth on camera. That's funny. And then I pitched and so you know, at the Daily Show you can just pitch, hey, ll cool Jay's never died. Ohmar Epps died really really fast. Do what you will with that, And you all came back with all of this, so like, just just walk us through the creative like what research did you all have to? You know, start going through to kind of connect all of this. Oh, it was the research was The research part was really fun. It was what movies did you choose to feature? That's the problem. We have so many movies like you don't even realize like what qualifies as black horror movies is it's almost subjective in the sense of like like in early times when there was like a movie called Son of Ngaga. It was the first quote unquote black horror movie because it was also the first black, all black production, black director, black staff. So it just had no choice but to be the first black black horror movie. And like it was, we had to choose that one because that was like the pioneer. But like the process was very hard because there was so many like just move classic movies that I just you forget their horror movies because their black movies. Like, uh, one that didn't get in was we had a lot of good ones. When it didn't get in was what's the Eddie Murphy movie? Uh, where He's Vampire and Brown Brooklyn Vampire. I was fighting so hard for Vampire and Brooklyn because that movie was just to me, it was just part of my life. Comedy is a tough genre to nail. Just in general, and that's one of the few movies that actually did. And I think Zombie Land did a pretty good job of it too, but that's Shaun of the Dead, but that's more British type stuff. But yeah, Vampire and Brooklyn was a good one. What he said, he got stabbed and he was like, this is my heart, this is my stomach, this is my heart, this is my stomach. I'll never that was tattooed on my brain. M heart, this is my stomach, this is my heart, this is my stomach, this is my heart. You should know the who's John Witherspoon described into Alan Pain how he saw Eddie Murphy turn into a werewolf and then a vamba. He flip flop, flip flop, and it was still scary. The final fight was still scary. He was up in a like that was that's a perfect I mean, get out, it's like a modern day, funny, scary black horror movie. Whatever. That was perfect uh movie back then. But it didn't make it because they had we had other so good choices. I think I'll give you another example of what I'm talking about about me and horror. So in the actual script, right, it calls for me to say candy Man five times into him here. Actually I don't know, yes, like legit, I was not comfortable with that. Like I've been asked to do a lot of wild stuff on this show. I've eating a lot of wild foods. I just left Idaho talking to some very wild people. Can't wait like candy Man, the O G Candy Man. I finished it. But that one was a battle, like I like, do you know how I watch Horror now? Like I watched Horror with two other things going on around me. You know, Yeah, I'm not a Merson. I'm not surround sounding myself. I'm not doing none of that. But yeah, when they when they wrote in the script that I had to say candy Man five times, I'm like, I'll just gonna happen called dub over my voice. So so the so then the middle ground that we reached was I would say the first candy Man as I turned to the mirror, so that candy Man don't count. You go check the tape candy Man show up, be like no, no, I have my fingers crossed the whole time. I'm not I'm not doing that, dog, I'm not doing that. And that's so funny. Try this again, Candy Man, Oh there you are? Where's my money? Daniel? I don't get horror movies. I watch them for entertainment. But to me, this is gonna be a bad metaphor, especially for a black as podcast like this one, But I liking it for me. I don't like hot food. I don't like spicy food. I don't like adding spices to my food for no reason. So scaring myself for no reason is I'm like, why, I just why don't I go watch record Ralph? Why am I here terrifying myself? Right? This is stupid? So I get you right, So so you know what, Let's let's take a break right now, because I want to get the panel on to discuss exactly what you're talking about. Because my girlfriend watched a love Craft count Tree. She watched it. This is this is how we support black shows in our house. She watches it live, we still DV yard and then I play it back in the DVR before three days, so you get the DVR rating in addition to the live rating. But I didn't watch it like racism is scary enough, y'all didn't add at the monsters on top of the like I would watch all the peaceful parts, but when the screen would get dark and a monster a right, let me go check get you with that, let me let me you don't need to see this. She loved it. But we'll be right back. This is this is a great topic that I'm low key scared to even go down. Candy Man might show up. I know, he just might pop up. Y'all say my name five times? I heard uh the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes. We are back. We are talking black horror Daily Show writer Ashton Womack with me there in the first break man. You know what else we forgot? It was a was a horror comedy. Low key, it wasn't a black movie, but horror comedy was Child's Play. Oh Like, I don't know if on purpose, but when I go back and watch that first one, that one still makes me laugh. What about LECN four, all the lepricns. That's all the comedy, I tell you as much, all of these white roles that we recast in black and like, you know, adding all this diversity. I am happy that when they redid Child's Play with Brian Tyree Henry. When I first heard he was in it. I was like, Lord, dathanna make Chucky a black dog. This is not the representation because I thought he was cast as the voice of Oh no, he's an actual character. Uh. Let's bring in three guests for today's episode. First up, we have an award winning author, educator, and executive producer of Shutters, Horror Noir, A History of Black Horror to not a re do to know. How are you doing today? Amazing? It's it's hard to hear out this horror slander, but I'm doing great. We had just two men cowards. Okay, that's all we are. We're just cowards. Also joining us a New York Times bestselling author, screenwriter and educator Stephen Barnes. What say you to LEPrecon in Space? Lepricon in Space? You know it may have had its its time, but when you were talking about Chucky when I remember, I think it was in the second movie where he was going to transplant his soul into a black kid, and he said, Chucky is gonna be a bro My ultimate plot to finally say the in word. Then Chucky would have been apprehended by the police. Movie Chucky finally gets stopped. That's I'm sorry, is that too serious? Can we not talk about serious police performing this program and joining us. Lastly, Northwestern's Vice president and Associate Provosts for Diversity and Inclusion and the author of Horror Noir, Blacks and American Horror Films from the eight nineties to the President, Dr Robin R. Means Coleman. Dr Coleman, what say you to leprechn Part five? Do we need a remake of leprecn We need as many Lepricans in our lives as possible. Hit that Kevin Hart leprin Black Lepricon is the pot of gold at the end of the diversity rainbow. So since we're talking about black horror, then we have to first define it because Ashton and I fumbled all over that in the first segment, because we don't know what technically makes a black horror film. You know what makes that? What? What are the rules for that sub genre to not a I'll start with you, Oh shoot, okay, yes. My opinion about it is black horror can be as many kinds of stories as black creators come up with. Sometimes it's just that there's a black lead. Like you can have a film like The Girl with All the Gifts, which is not a black movie. It was written by a white author, but they cast the lead black like George Romero did and not The Living Dead. And hey, it's not just that the lead ist black, but it has a sensibility that is sort of interrogating society and shifts in society and rules of society. So it has kind of a black personality, even if it might have a white director. But yeah, black director, black lead, um and a black sensibility or just filling up an invisible like like addressing invisibility, like we exist. We don't even have to do anything black. We just exist. Okay, So then for my other two, for for my other two here on the panel, defined for me, when you recognize that this was a genre that you felt drawn to, that you something out of, like you know, I know we all have our own favorite film genres. What was it about? What is it about horror that you go, yes, scare me, you're already black? Well, first, I think let's start with a definition of horror. Horror would be a film who the primary emotion they want you to experiences dread horror. So whatever it is that they're doing, you know, it could be supernatural, it could be science fic, you know, supernaturally exorcist, science fiction, alien. It could be you know, psychological horror, psycho. But they want you to feel that emotion. So what Tonantoieve said, who is my good lady wife? Uh? Mark that um is that black horror would then be horror films that have a black perspective. It's a diasporic performer or writer or director or in some way connects to that. So being black in America is a matter of constantly knowing that you're under a low level of attack. I mean, the mortality statistics just say that for a fact. So if white people in people all over the world like dark story stories that are that that touch the question of death, um, black people I think have even more reason to need to balance their emotions. Screaming and laughing both release tension. Yeah, well white people do that both when they when they laugh. Basic that makes sense, right, That's right. So, so to be able to keep your keep your emotions in a healthy range, we watch comedies to release tension. We watch horror or suspense movies, or somebody's crawling across even though some huge monument being shot at by spies increases our tension level. Drops our tension level. We're trying to survive. We're trying to stay in the goldilocks zone where it's not too much tension and it's not too much relaxation because both of them will will will take you apart. We're just trying to survive. But we have some very special needs in that sense. For me, black horror is fun, it's funny, it's entertaining. But most importantly, black horror hails my blackness. It speaks to black life and culture, certainly, as Steve said, the socio and political, but it is also about my style of my music and my aesthetic. Black horror is it is life, It's black Elates tells from the Hood. It's candy Man one, not Bernard Roses Candyman. Black horror is death by temptation that had James Bond the Third, Samuel L. Jackson, Cadeem Hardison. It is all of the things that says there's an insider conversation that we're having about black people and blackness and black ideologies. And it may speak to an external audience, but we're not going to do all the definition of work to bring you in. This is about you, It's for you. Yeah, I love it. I can't remember. It was Tony Morrison who was like, I don't have to write my stories for anybody outside of for anybody. I'm writing to the people who understand. It was something that took kind to that of writing stories for us to understand for the person, the people who need to understand understand, and white people or any other audience having to try to. She didn't have to like write to help explain to the white audience. To other people audists, this is for us. I love that sentiment black horror subo. It's for right, right, and and I get how some people don't want to lean into tension and lean into scares like y'all were saying. It's like life is hard enough. Racism, it's hard enough because, like I said in the documentary, horror are black history is black horror, and we could just put a period there. But the the person who loved horror first in my life was my late mother, Patricia steven Stu. She was a civil rights activist who had tear gas thrown in her face at the age of twenties, so she wore dark glasses the whole rest of her life, even indoors. She loved horror, and I think for her it was about leaching out the trauma, not bringing it more. She had already lived the trauma. She knew trauma was real, but monsters, zombies, demons, ghosts, but she did not believe him. By the way, ghost imaginary horror was soothing and helped put a face to that monstrosity. And once in a while, the characters can win. They can beat the monster. Now, even if the characters were all quiet. I remember being on a panel to science fiction convention once thisbody asked me why do I like watching slash slasher movies? And I would say, because I enjoy watching white people die. The whole audience cracked up, and I said, you know, it's really funny. You think I'm kidding when when if you're going to exclude us from the movies, it's like, I'm sorry, you know so. But when we started appearing in there more, then it's that it's it's feeling seen, it's feeling that, Okay, we're part of of this continuum too. We you know, do we not feel? Do we not fear? And is it is it not fun to watch us in those situations. The difference between the original Candy Man, and the remake is stark. The original candy Man was black trauma for white audiences. The reimagined candy Man was from our perspective. It wasn't the white gaze. White people could come and watch it if they appreciated it, but it wasn't for them, and I think that that that shift is important. So Dr Coleman, I'm curious what was your relationship with horror growing up? Because what I'm starting to see, if Tanana reaves that ground and my backgrounds are any proof, a lot of it starts early on in what you tend to gravitate towards. Because I had weird real life. What I believe there's a demon is trying to kill me. I don't want to see none about no faith demons. What was your relationship growing up? What do you think it was that drew to this genre? So I I get to claim horror because I am from Pittsburgh, born and raised and for true horror fans, That's all I have to say. If you need to buy a bow, Pittsburgh is the land of George Romero. It is the land of Night of the Living Dead. It is where Night of the Living Dead was filmed. In and around, So horror for me is in my d n A. That's awesome. Yeah, Yeah, Romero used real life Pittsburghers in Night of the Living Dead. Those were people that we saw, We recognized they were our neighbors. They were cast as militia, and we knew that that was the black experience in Pittsburgh to have to do battle with those police. So for me, again, it's in my d n A. So since you all are historians on this genre, and I'm sure you saw the segment that I did with the terrible mustache glued to my face of the films that we were able to fit into it, and you know, Ashon already talked about that in the first second that we didn't really we weren't able to get to everything, but we did, you know, mentioned Son of Angagi. We did talk about Rachel True's role in the craft. What were some of the bigger ones that you all think we missed? Black? Yeah, we did a segment on it, like during it we mentioned it slightly because black he was so interesting, it's so funny. The only issue was it was during the it was black black we wanted we we summed it up in a black sportation era where it was Blackular, Blackenstein, dr Black and Missed were they would just add black to any horror movie, and then I was like, that's a hit, So I wish we would have went in deeper because Black it was so funny and like how it was like received at the time. It's a cult classic now, but at the time people were like, this is some shucking in job and what the hell is it? I'd say Dawn of the Dead because Ken Frey was one of the very first black leads in a horror film who got to survive, and a black priest delivered one of the most chilling lines I've ever heard, which is, when the dead walked the earth, we must stop the killing or lose the war. And so that made that a black horror movie for me. You know, is the idea of the thematics of it being expressed by a black man and a black man surviving the damn movie. Do you think so I'm gonna put another shout out in for blackula, I don't know. I thought it's sort of shed the Black exploitation era. I mean, this is a movie that's about a delayed move through the middle passage and here we are you know in What's in l a saying there's a connection between slavery and what we're experiencing in America today. Well, because of the actor involved with it was William Marshall. William Marshall, William Crane. He brought fantastic gravitas to that role. Think about that, that movie with a bad actor in it, and it would have been trash. But he elevated everything. He treated that as if it was Shakespeare. I mean, I just I love that movie. It was important. That's why I have to forever give a shout out to two black creators who get opportunities like how did William Crane, like in his twenties, how did he even get that opportunity to direct a movie? But so often when we do get those opportunities, we want to do more. I'm sure that the producers would have been happy just for him to slap something together, but he brought in you know, the very beginning of the movie. People who haven't seen it, it's been a minute, Uh, William Marshall's character is arguing with Count Dracula about the trans Atlantic slave trade holding court, you know, and and it's it's like whoa when it was the last time you saw yourself in the seventeen hundred's right, it's just so and and all the Swahili and the history, some of it a little misguided and but but just really trying to do more. And I also mentioned what was supposed to be a knockoff of Blackula, but which became a great film in its own right, which was Gonjen Hess with Bill Gunn. They were like, hey, why don't you do a black vampire movie like Blackula? And he like, um, okay, I will do a movie, but it is not gonna be like Blacula. And he did his own meditation on immortality and love and death and history. And I just love seeing artists trying to work within a system that isn't really interested in our stories, but it's just often interested in profiting off of our stories. Genre films can have an advantage and breaking through to an audience because genre films have fans that love that genre, just love it, and we'll go see almost anything within it. So a black horror film is not only going to get black audiences, but it's gonna get genre audiences. People want good horror, and that actually helps to make the world more porous. Where it's it's possible. It's maybe difficult to get through that barrier, but it's not impossible, it's less impossible. So these movies actually made a difference. They got people behind the camera, not just standing as actors. One of the best examples of that is get Out, you know, which is one of the reasons we're all here right now. When Jordan Peele made get Out and release it in seventeen you know, as he said in horrn are he he made that film to work for the black audiences. If it doesn't work for the black audiences, it's a fail. But it made two fifty million dollars, so clearly it worked for way more than the black audiences. It gave so much attention to this subgenre of black horror and has created so many opportunities, like even our documentary got the green light the day he got his Oscar. Wow Wow. So then, because you all are so verse in this genre, I would I'll be honest and saying that because I don't watch enough horror, I missed some of the nuance that you all are talking about. So in the broader sense, where do they get horror wrong? Like are there racist tropes and undertones that the casual viewer might not pick up on to not a reva like to start with you. Oh my gosh, there are so many and of course I can't wait to hear what Robin has to say. There are so many tropes like they never know what to do with us, but then when they do put us in the movie, it's never it's not usually a compliment. Right, if they write a black character, it's meant to be someone who is a sacrifice. The sacrificial negro is what we call that trope, the magical negroun. Oh, seriously, the imagine I'll fight the alien exactly. Oh my god, I can block that out. That out. The spiritual guide um is another one. Um. And and yeah, there was also this this idea that black characters are the first to die, which isn't always true obviously, but it happened so much that that became a trope to UM, I think mine, are you hit? The sacrificial negro? Um? The black authority figure turning your badge? You know that kind of Oh my god, where does that come from? Always always obese, never sexual threats, right, the scared negro, the bug eyede um mantan Moreland and Spider Baby Um, the Voodoo boogie person practitioner, the sassy sidekick, Oh my gosh, there's child's play hat, the Voodoo Man. Yeah, in the Rainbow Love West Craven, but that we didn't get right. The first time I noticed that tropeman when I used to go see these movies and the kids, and when I was a little kid, and the kids in my neighborhood would ask me after I came back, had they killed the brother this time? So I knew that this was going on. But the first time I understood it deeply and what it might mean was I was watching a movie called Damn Nation Alley. I ditch high school and went to go see it with my buddy Dan Panol And we're watching Damnation Alley where George Popard and Jan Michael Vincent and Paul Winfield are traveling across a nuclear waste land and an atomic Winnebago and they go to like the ruins of Las Vegas or something, and out of the ruins of Las Vegas comes the last woman in the world, and she's white. And I turned to my friend Dan, I said, they're gonna kill Paul Winfield, and so he said, why would you say that. You know well, he said, said, you're so cynical. I said, wait. Five minutes later he got eaten by giant cockroaches. Giant cockroa giant cock roaches. After the movie, Dan asked me, how did you know? I said, it was simple. She was the last woman in the world. They weren't going to pretend he wasn't interested, and they weren't gonna let him compete for her. The only option they had was to kill him, and that's what they did. And I understood right then that look for disproportionate death connected to you know, reproductive reproductive competition. Black men cannot be cock blockers. The white man must have access to these, to a potential reproductive partner. And once I saw that, it was easy to see everywhere, and I actually compiled a list of two hundred movies in which all all the black men died, all of them. Anybody with at least one line to all the black men. You cannot name a movie of an American film in which all the white people die if anybody else survives, there actually is one. I finally found one movie in which all the white people died and somebody black but two hundred tons. It's like, what do you do with that emotional sense? They like watching us die. It's it's it's a very uncomfortable feeling to be sitting in an audience watching people, you know, having fun with Paul Winfield dying in Damnation Alley, Paul Winfield dying in Wrath of con Pine, Willifield died in Surpent in the Rainbow, Paul Winfield dying in Terminator. Actually, generally to pretend just one actor has died over He's done the spiritual guy, he's done the sacrificial negro, He's done it all. He made a whole career. I you know, that's the roles that were available. He should contract and try to live, right, That's right. And it don't make sense. It doesn't make sense that, like black people are always the first to die, because I know black people in real life, and we the first to run whatever is something about to have it, White people walking towards the dangerl we like, I gotta go. So I don't get that's the crazy part. Like it's it's their fantasy. It's a fantasy of the person creating the movie. You know, they don't you know, on some deep emotional level. That's that's tribal competition, and it's you know, this is why we have to get control of production in that sense. So then to that point right there, Stephen, So then to that point as we look at the evolution, and you all have been very complementary of Jordan Peel and everything that Monkey Paul has been doing. You know, as of late Lovecraft Country. There were two things that I found interesting about Lovecraft Country. One, it dealt with something that was extremely complex, which was racism. And they even put it a little bit more front and center than Get Out did by making the show itself a period peace. But could you also talk a little bit about um and I guess I'll start with the ladies. Talk to me a little bit about the evolution of the role of women in horror right now, because it seems to be that there are more women being you know, kind of pushed at the forefront, you know, as leads, especially even when you talk about you know, the updated Candy Man that they just did as well, right So, Nia DaCosta did such a fantastic job with the New Candyman and brought such a great sensibility to that story and Mishia Green. Monkey Pop rought on to be the showrunner for Lovecraft Country, So I think Monkey Pope is doing a lot to elevate women directors, women showrunners. Um, there are a lot of independent black filmmakers who's starting to get a glow up now. Nikkiato juicu Uh is an independent filmmaker. She did a vampire piece called Suicide by Sunlight where black people were protected by melanin uh and she's doing a feature film now called The Nanny, which I can't wait to see. I'll watch anything she does. So this is you know, and I'm I'm not a director, but I'm so excited to have my first horror adaptation with Steve we co wrote a couple of episodes of the Horror and War Anthelithology filments on Shutter and it's gonna be a series in February. I don't know if you heard that, Robin, It's gonna drop on amc UH series it so with two episodes, two segments per episode, and it really is a beautiful time for black women, and I think not just black creators. You have to understand that Jordan Peale and Monkey Pop have open doors for all marginalized creators and horror especially to get that meaning, to catch that executive's ear. I think, for me, what's interesting about talking about women in this context, when we're talking about a horror renaissance, it is being led by women. It's being led by folks like Tanana Reeve. Do Horror isn't always just about, you know, these socio political issues. Horror is also it's not always about black trauma. Horror is entertaining in Tanana Reeve with contributions like The Lake Where or or JD. Dillard with Sweetheart, where as creators or as women on the screen, they are just leading the charge about the complex, innovative, entertaining, funny stories that women can tell. And it's not always trauma porn. But it is about our life, it's about our culture, and that's really amazing, and I would say as a as a horror film historian. And then they're standing on the shoulders of folks like Casey Lemons and Eve's Bayou, which is so important to the sort of center and remind folks that that's out there. And so I think women are the horror renaissance. So after the break, I want to talk a little bit more about the future of horror and where you think it's going, and what can people do to make sure that the studios are getting it right? And I say people, I'm talking about people like myself, people that are on the inside, on the production side kind of things. Uh. And then I'm gonna give you all time to think about this. So I'm gonna ask it now and after the break we're going to discuss this as a group, after we get done with the actual meat and potatoes with this. I want everyone to think, what to you was the funniest black death on camera in any horror movie? Like they died and for whatever reason you laughed instead of being scared. I have to I'm gonna give your time. I'm gonna give you time to think about it. But just just just just just stew on that for a second. We'll be right back. This is beyond the scene. We've been talking about black horror and the genre and the growth of it, and how Ashton and I are both scaredy cats who live there, Like I don't even fool with haunted houses no more. Right like just even when they signed the wave, you know, you know you go to some of them haunted houses now and they'd be like, hey, just so you know, they can't touch you, and which ruins the whole, Like I'm supposed to be feared that i might get murdered. I'm still scared after they announced the rules of the Hunted House. I'd like to talk with the panel now about the future of black horror. Uh, you know, Stephen, the ladies already discussed in the previous segment just about how there are a lot more women leading the charge. And Jordan Peel has left the door, and only did he leave the door open, he cracked open three full more doors, dropped a ladder down from that door, posted directions to get to the doors. But even with that, Stephen, do you think that we're there's still a struggle in getting more black actors and actresses and more representation in front and behind the camera, and the representation behind the camera that matters. If you don't have represent you don't have the directors, the producers, the executive producers, the people who are in the pipeline to the money. Then those are the people who's whose dreams say, oh, this script and not that one, this actor and not that when this scene but not that one. It has to be the people behind the screens, behind the scenes, and that's what made the difference. After the Black exploitation in the early early seventies, it with boom and bust within only about four years, but a lot of people got jobs and they burrowed their way into the industry. And that's what you have to do. People like Jordan Peel have set the tone. He has shown that that because he is a world class funny man, he knew the moment at which to release the tension. He knew what the audience when the audience needed to be to be relieved. He was dealing with social dynamite in that movie, the question of do we do we? How do you know who your ally is? Even the best people with the best intentions, you know are are saying hideous things and behind those not everyone who smiles at you as your friend. So I think it it allowed us to tap into very real social tensions that have existed for centuries and drop that tension enough that you could have water cooler conversations with your white employees, your white friends about issues that are critical for us moving forward. So what I think is important is to study the successes. The beautiful thing is if people like Jordan Peel can make money, then three or four people can make bombs and it's okay in the Hollywood. Can't just completely forget about it. You you need you know, most sperm don't get to the egg. You know what I'm saying that that mutation, that change is brutal and violent. What we're trying to do right now, we need to be able to have at least nine filmmakers fail for every person who succeeds, because that's what it is that happens. That's what happens. Most people don't make it. So what I think people need to do is study the successes. If this is your heart, this is what you really want to do, then make you know the way to get to make a five million dollar movie, which is what Jordan Peele did, is you first make a movie. Now there's you on your your you use your iPhone, you write a one to play, you get some actors from the local drama department, and you put it on yourself and you put it up on YouTube. Then you raise the money to make a slightly more expensive one. It's it's critical that we have everybody who watches these things and loves them starts doing it if that's what they want to do. Some of those people will be the geniuses that we need to carry this forward. Some of there. There are are people out there who are so talented, so smart, and they need to understand that the technology has gotten to the point where you can make a cheap movie and it looks great. So it's right down to did you care? Did you did you write a script that told the truth? Did you actually scare yourself? You know? And out of all those people who try that, a few of them will succeed and those are the ones that we need. I definitely have a question about the future and black horror movie, especially talking about your point to Jordan Peterson made a film about Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peele not the same guy, Jordans rights advocate. Jordan Peterson's movie would have been about black people too, but it would have been a differentspective. But your point about Jordan Peel's uh social commentary on the question. The big question was asked about ally ship, and so my question is how when will it? When will it be in our future where our black horror movie movies aren't centered around racism? As if it's already happened us? What's not about racism? Class? And then I'm really glad you asked that as them because I was going to talk about how we're kind of at a crossroads now with Black horror, like the Hard Duke scares me. I don't know what that ain't racist, right, that's right, that's right. I have my version of that. Can't wait to get that made. But but that's one of the things, like Mama, that's the thing I love about I know I'm involved with it, but I love about the horror. Our anthology is that it's six different stories, and like Robin said, it's not all about racism as the monster. I mean, yes, those are valid stories, and those are important stories that sometimes we're just exist sting. Sometimes it's funny aspects of our culture. We have to have the room to to be all different shades of human within Black Horror, and the crossroads were at now because Steve was talking about there have to be projects that fail. Well, there isn't a whole lot of leeway for Hollywood executives when it comes to failure. That's why so many of the movies we look back on now from the nineties it's called classics, Tales from the Hood used by you. They didn't get second chances those directors. We didn't get tales from Hood too until after Get Out and right now you hear this cry like executives will say, oh, well, black audiences aren't interested in trauma horn And this is something I find to be like a very troubling sort of development, because yeah, there's been a few movies that have leaned into racism as the monster, and some do it wow and some don't. I'm a huge fan of your comedy. So I think of the Black History museum routine, like as a black artist, when you get that opportunity, right, look what you did us, right, that doesn't work in a horror films shouting in your face. The lynching isn't the horror that that's intergenerational memory that's triggering us. We need like what Nead Dicnsta did with Candy Man. Make it fantasy horror, like the body transformation. That didn't happen to my great uncle. He didn't turn into a creature, you know, So you have to have a little bit of a distance. So I like to say artists have to be aware that lynching is not horror. Okay, and audiences have to be aware, give us some space and time to form this subgenre and to allow the artists to rise, because this is a system that you know, there's been some more openness since Get Out and after George Floyd unfortunately, but those doors in some ways systemically can't wait to shut. Can't wait to shut. Yeah, totally understand that. And so it's because I love that you said they give a space and time to grow and figure out the genre because I'm totally I'm not against us to seeing like racism in a metaphorical sense of how it's affected my life in a horror movie. I get Out obviously was proof of that for me, but I like other things do scary, like student loans scared me exactly. Art You can say that art is about two things. Who am I and what is true? And I think white racist would be very happy if they thought that we were constantly thinking about them and what they did does know. There is life, there is love, there is growing old, there is you know, my my child is sick, There's this, there's that. There is just the humanity that we are and it is not defined by our past, although it is influenced by it. So I look forward to one of the reasons why I felt like I could struggle in the industry and I'd write stuff and they change the race of characters that I wrote and stuff like that, and it was like, Okay, it's just my turn in the barrel. And if to see a generation coming after me that doesn't have my wounds, that doesn't have my reflective flinch at certain things, that's great. That's what I wanted. I want them to stand on my shoulder. I want them to see further than I could see. And I'm so proud of them go out there and talk about love and life and death and horror without suggesting that white people define our existence. That's simply not It's never been true. In getting the Academy Award, what Jordan Peele did with with Get Out is make us think that all horror needs to be art horror or elevated horror, and that that's why we're certainly talking about black horror as renaissance, that it's crossed over and it's become mainstream, and it's always it always has to be this really smart horror. The nineties, we talked about leprechn LEPrecon in the hood. The nineties are my favorite decade for black horror because it's none of that. I don't know what the nineties is about, except that we added Z to all kinds of stuff. Bloods versus Wolves, vamps, my vampire is what I mean. It was just z s excluded and it was funny and it was fun and it was you know. I mean, Blood's versus Wolves has got to be one of the funniest unknown undercover horror movies. Like it's blood versus crips, but it's like vampires versus werewolves. I mean, black horror genre has been around for a minute, and I appreciate the attention that get Out is bringing to it because it moves people to revisit this is actually really fun and funny. The hip hop which come on, I mean, these are these are funny, sir? What's okay? So, so, Dr Coleman, what would you like to see? Is there anything new? Let's talk about beyond the horizon? Is there anything new you would like to see? And we're talking about stepping away from racism or not letting racism be the spine of the story. What do you think is missing? Not not in a critical way, but where do you hope that it goes? Now? I think we're there, And actually I think the two people on this call to Nanna Reef Do and Steven Barnes are leading that charge. And you see that with what they've done with Horror Award the Anthology. But you know, I hope that they spend two seconds talking about what they did with The Lake, which is sort of it isn't that nineties kind of kitchy horror, But it reminds us that there are so many stories and so much depth within black horror that doesn't always have to be about struggle. Is this the Late Lanear project? No No. I had a short story called The Lake I published several years ago, and Steve and I co wrote an adaptation of that story for for Horn Law. And not to be too spoilery, it's about the monster within, you know. It's about a lake that if you swim in it brings out your inner monstrosity and makes it outward. And you know, I'm one of those I guess I'm scared of the woods. So anything with the title Lake Woods Cabin Lodge, I will watch movie. And so I'm so excited that I had an adaptation of the story called the Lake, not or even on. There are things that we want to do. We've done some of those things in our writing, but I think that the challenge that we see right now is moving into doing more visual images. So we're looking for the stories that we can tell that we can do as radio plays or as small films that we can produce ourselves. If we can produce a radio play, that's proof of concept and if we do it right, We're we're working on our skills. We're gathering teams, were showing people and the the The intention is to be able to design a movie that can be done for for funds that we can raise ourselves, say quarter million dollars hundred thousand. It's possible, and that's right, it's possible to do this, and so we want to learn how to do this and and our pot The podcast that we're starting is going to be walking people through the process of writing, getting your writing published, moving into the visual genre, working in that, and and how to stay sane in the midst of all of that. Every one of us who succeeds at this needs to leave a trail of bread crumbs. Everybody needs to leave a trail of bread crumbs, so that the next generation coming up, black people of their allies, just people in general. This is this is the world that we're moving into where we're not taking the poisons of the twentieth century with us. You know, it's like, we can leave that stuff behind as long as we acknowledge that it happened and that it was real and it did real damage. I don't mind going through rehab if you don't pretend you weren't driving the bus that hit me. You know, it's like, don't pretend. Yes, I've got to do the work. Black people have got to do their own work in the community, but don't pretend that nothing happened. Speaking of bread crumbs, tell me a little bit more about this podcast, because it seems like this podcast y'all trying to steal get everything you want through the door, but you're trying to open the door for other people. Yes, that's what you have to do. I'm who who I am because of my parents, because of people black and white and otherwise who helped me. So the only way I can pay those people back is by doing all I can to give away that knowledge. I got everything I wanted out of life. I want I want to see young creators coming up, and we're gonna be telling that truth. We're gonna be spitting fire every Sunday to life writing podcast dot com. We're talking about a six step process to to take someone from not having any publications to getting published. It's never failed to learning how to learning how to maneuver in Hollywood. I mean, I like to say, as soon as I learn it, I'm trying to tweet it out. I'm trying to pass it on because that's what I've learned so much from other people through social media. And we can't all meet in person, so a podcast will say, look, this is our pitching nightmare story. I can't believe I said this. This is what happened. This is the time that pitching went well, this is this is what is real. You know this. This is all we can do is tell the truth. And the truth from my position is I believe that people can have artistic careers if you're willing to commit, that the that the path has been laid, if you're willing to actually commit, if you're willing to actually say I will give my heart, in my life and my energy to this. I want to be a comedian I want to be an actor. I want to be a writer. I want to be a director. Those of us who have made it. If we can leave a path, that trail of breadcrumbs, we can change the world. This is the time, and the technology is there. Hollywood is scrambling their panic because there are so many venues. There's probably a hundred times more channels than there were when I was a kid. There the it's it's a it's a seller's market. If you can understand how to organize yourself to get into position, that's the thing. Getting into position is difficult. So Tontoreeve is opening doors for for people every day. I try to open all the doors for people I can't every day, you know, for black people and their allies and anyone who's willing to to commit to the unity of humanity. Just I love you there, You're my family. So as we end this podcast, and we've been very respectful of the people that have contributed and the people who have done so many thankless things, Um, I just want to end the podcast with those choosen which black person got the most hilariously and it's no hard feelings because we've exalted you and everything that you've done up until this podcast, so now we can have a laugh. Funniest black death on camera. One of them was in Freddy versus Jason, where this black girl basically tells Freddy to kill her so that her white friend could get away. It was so blatant, Yes it was, it was, and he just how sweet dark chocolate? What the what if there was a guy who was chocolate with nuts but that's white. Writers were there shooting back then, just say it, just say it right and down. They gotta say it. I'm sweet dark, Dr Coleman. But you talked about Omar Epps. There's one that's just slightly sooner into the movie, and that's um Black Tribesmen number one in Monster from Greenhealth. Oh two seconds and they're sort of inflatable and they squish him. That's hilarious, insane. Yeah, we're so good, y'all were so good at this. Mine isn't even that funny. But it's just like, really, if it makes you laugh, if it's ridiculous, really it would have to be. In all due respect, I love this actress, but Alfred Woodard and Annabelle sacrifices for no reason jumping out of the window. I mean I was like, what I mean, almost time insulting would would be John Coffee in the Green Mile here, not Dick Holler in the Shining and travel all that distance and get act in the chest, which did not happen in the book by the way, right, you know, But like in in the Green Mile, this guy Tom Hanks knew he was innocent, knew it touched his hands, saw the vision, and they had smuggled this guy out to heal this white woman and to give this guy viagra basically, you know. And they had twenty minutes of stupid mouse tricks. But they did not have time for Tom Hanks to pick up the damn phone and call the governor and say this man's innocent. Oh, he could have healed himself, so couldn't They couldn't shine and save Dick and say you're going to get an act to the chest, healing everybody. But he couldn't ave himself. He couldn't heal himself. Oh, come on, what we call an industry plot holes? Yeah? I mean, thing is that Stephen King is a good guy and he he walks a very interesting line. He could do the book The Green Mile and not offend me. The movie offended me horribly. Um and in in the Shining he Dick Collar might have been a spiritual guy, but he wasn't sacrificial and he wasn't the only one with powers either, So that's right. So it's it's it's okay. He has a deep well of real art art artistry King does, which which allows him. There's just even though he obviously didn't know many black people growing up, you know, in Maine, he treats us with a certain amount of dignity and respect. But these people making movies based on the stuff miss that completely. Sometimes, Yeah, it's just been horrible. Jason takes Manhattan is, oh yeah, I remember that, and the boxing gentleman on the roof and Jason just lets this dude beat his face in and and is punching Jason in the face and it's like gases himself fister bloody from just and Jason's taking every blow. And then the boxer just puts his hands down, black boxer. He just goes, all right, give me your best shot, and Jason upper cuts him and his head flies off Mortal Kombat style in the back of the alley, and then the lid falls on what I laughed for twenty minutes straight. Oh, I was in the theater. What kind of looting tunes ship is that? Ashton will finish strong with you the funniest black horror movie, bro. I haven't watched the horror movie since Nightmare before Christmas? Uh the last I don't. I can't think of a death, but I will say you guys have inspired me to write my own horror movie where ll co j eyes multiple times. So thank you for the inspiration. You can have Morgan Freeman get a kiss in that same move I appreciate because he has not had a single kiss in his entire screen. What j is, Mama Duke? I like write this script Morgan Freeman never kissing anybody. That might be the next CP time we do. I'd like to end also by a quick shout out to Samuel Jackson's death scene and Deep Blue Sea. Absolutely. Now it's not necessarily, but that's a pivotal that's a pivotal scene. It was a wonderful death. We thought he was a lead, yeah, and then he got his ass chopped up and it was so out of the blue. You want to talk about a jump scare that was that was so random in the middle of it in the dog and just chopped it. And then they cut to Michael Rappaport just horrified and hugging up pipe. They built it all up. Sam Jackson was all because they've they've been bickering or whatever. Right, the water is bad, wait until you've seen snow nature can do. But it does hold a candle to man. Now you've seen how bad things can get and how quickly they can get that weight where they can get a whole lot worse. So we're not gonna fight any more. We're gonna pull together and find a way to get out of here. First, we're going to see that one when I was so horrified. I cannot thank you all enough for coming on this show like this has been downright a joint. Tonna read to Stephen Barnes, Dr Robin ar Means, Coleman and Ashton, thank you all so much for going beyond the scenes. I gotta pitch all some booties. Listen to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple podcast, the I Heart Radio Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show

Imagine The Daily Show, but deeper. Host Roy Wood Jr. dives further into segments and topics covered 
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