Hey, it's Roy Wood Jr. Up Next is a special presentation of The Daily Show podcast Beyond the Scenes, where we go a little deeper into segments that originally aired on the show. In this episode, I sit down with Runney Chain to talk about his response to a Fox News segment filled with racist Asian stereotypes and the rise and anti Asian violence since then. Take a listen, all right, So you know, like when you get a salad, right, you get a salad and then you get the dressing on the side so you can feel healthy. When the truth is, you're just gonna put the dressing on a little bit, bit by bit, and then by the end of your salad you've already used all the dressing that was on the side. That's what this podcast is. This is the dressing on the side of The Daily Show. I'm Roy Wood Jr. This is Beyond the Scenes where we go beyond the topics and the discussions that we have on the day the show. I sit down with correspondence, producers, rights, anybody that had anything to do with the piece happening. We talked to them on this show and you enjoy it and it is as delicious as the Daily show because it's on the side, and he when it's on the side, it feels healthier. Baby. If you're right now, you're getting a couple of extra calories just listening to me. What the hell am I talking about? You don't care? Uh? The piece we're going to go beyond on this week, Um is the o'rilly factor getting racist in Chinatown. This is when Ronney Chain responded to some racist as ship that was on Fox News. Uh. If you didn't see the original segment Jesse Waters from Fox News. This is during the election and Trump was talking China, this China, and he went down to Chinatown to do what was supposed to be quote unquote journalism and having a real discussion with Asian people. But really what he was doing was exploiting people who did not speak English and then going around, how partaking in all of the different stuff that basically just highlighted a bunch of Asian stereotypes. He got a foot massage, he played with some nunchucks, he played kung fu fighting, and my man, Runny Chain caught window this ship and he clapped back in a major way. Am I supposed to bow to say hello? Layout lay? How I liked the watches? Are they hot? Penny gnat? Who are you going to vote for? Green? Thin? White? Clinton's wife has a name? What is it? Old man? Forget it? Snap out of it? Do you know karate? Yeah? Hut my hand. That's the spot. Is it the year of the Dragon Crabbit? No, it's actually the year of go yourself? What the hell was that? How was that on the news? In fact, how is that even on TV? Where did this come from? I mean everyone's been wondering who would be the tig of twenty six teams? Was racism? I didn't even know Asians going to run it? Okay, So we're going to discuss the rise of anti Asian hate in this country, where it came from, what we can do to stop it, and a little later in the program, we're going to be joined by Norman Chen, the CEO and co founder of Leading Asian Americans Unite for Change. But first, it is my pleasure to go beyond the scenes with my office mate. He is my friend, he is You're a day one man. You're You're my day one from my first day at the Daily Show. You were right there. I think I beat you to the five minutes, which makes me the senior correspondent because I beat you to the building by five minutes on our first day. Uh, Ronnie, you did this piece. This is Ronnie Chang by the way, Daily Show Correspondent Extraordinar Ronnie Chang. Yeah, thanks for thanks for talking about this man. And you're my day one too. You and I are good friends and we talk a lot in our office. Like we we actually discussed that one one moment doing a podcast together, just us rambling and ship, just our rambles. But I think we both decided that we talked about a lot of stuff that should remaining off the record. Um, yeah, I think you. You didn't say we should talk about it. You said you wanted to install cameras and just keep it on record and then cut clips about what was I don't want to do that. Yeah, I wanted to big brother our office just a live stream of ruin Ronnie, just solving every problem. Which, speaking of solving problems, Ronnie, it's gonna be a lot of you eating subway sangwich, that's what's gonna be. Hey, we will discuss subway tuna later. Okay, they said it's tuna. They just don't know which kind of too that's we're getting off stuff. Ronnie in why did you fail to solve Asian racism anti Asian centiment? Why did you feel it was a bating switch. I thought we solved it. Um. I thought racism was over after that video, and then you know, they did a pump fake and then they went the other way and it came back. They came back hot. The racism came back and went hot to the rim. You know what I mean. Racist broke the bad boy Anti Asian racism it was down oh to like the Milwaukee Bucks, and gave itself a lot of came back. They came back so hot. There. We joke a lot on the show, but this was a piece that, you know, it was what we call in in the Daily Show office is a quick turn. This is where the news breaks and rather than go through a formal book and to get like no, Ronnie was like, Yo, where's the camera, I'm going to Chinatown. Just for the people who don't know who've missed the piece, give me the back story on what lit this fire so fast. From the time from the time this piece aired on Fox News, I think our response aired maybe thirty six hours later. If that, Yeah, it was yeah, yeah, So once things hit the ze guys in American news, then it starts to enter the building a bit. And this this the underlying story, which was the Fox News story was actually causing so much grief in America that it hit the pop culture as that guys, and then that entered the building, which I mean, to be fair, already entered the building the day before, but it started building overnight to the point where the Daily Show had to address it. We decided to go to Chinatown to get the response of people from that neighborhood who will interviewed the same neighborhood that was interviewed in the Fox News segment. And um, we went down and I was worried that because in Singapore and the Asia, people get really apathetic about politics and they're very hesitant to be on screen and they're very hesitant to be on screen talking about politics. So I didn't know if that would be the same thing we would face in New York City China Town. But what we found, the entire Daily Show team found was that it was the exact opposite, because as soon as we got to New York City Chinatown, people literally as soon as we got out of the car and I was dressed in the suit, and they as soon as they saw me, they're like, hey, are you here to talk about that thing that happened yesterday? And I was like yeah, and they're like, come over here. And then they brought us to the place in Chinatown and people lined up around the block to talk to used up. So it was like, yeah, people don't normally line up to talk to us. So I literally I was just standing there as people came one after the other to come and and big about what happened yesterday. What are your thoughts on the Jesse Waters video on Fox News? The chicken reporter who came down here and thought he was big because he talked to people whouldn't speaking. Yeah, that douchebag pieces, the one with no testicles, the one who came down here who said, let me talk to some old people and let me let me put them on camera without asking them and sort of put them on national television and made fun of them in the worst possible way, That asshole. Yeah, I think we're talking about the same guy, right all right? What was the question again? I can't even remember the whole idea behind the piece was that and this came from travel was the idea that just because people aren't speaking your language, whatever your language is, doesn't mean they don't have sophisticated thoughts on politics and the way the country should be run. So that was the idea we are doing in Chinatown, which was trying to get their opinions, and in many cases we made we kind of asked them to speak Chinese all Cantonese, just to make the point that you can't have sophisticated thoughts uh in languages other than English, and so um. Yeah. The response was, you know, it required was no effort on our the streets. The streets didn't the talking on that one. You're more zin du than me. But the thing that I found most interesting about this piece for you was the lack of anger from you as a correspondent. That's the thing I'm always suppressing, Like, dude, when I'm like, like when we did the Republican National Convention, we did the piece when was America great? And I'm having to look at people, look me in my black ass eyes and tell me America was great during slavery and I'm trying not to read. So when you went down to Chinatown on a piece as as an Asian, was this personal? Was was this a more personal piece for you? Because yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it felt like a direct personal attack. By the same time, you know, at the Daily Show, you know, the drill man, it's like, what like in the emergency room, it's like we see so much crap every day that you in order to operate professionally, you you become guy desensitized and you're just here to treat the patients. And so we just keep seeing car crashes every single day. Eventually you're like, oh yeah, like you have an objective view of it. And also I was pretty piste going back to the studio. Uh, And I remember we brought the footage back and this is again speaks to the team at the Daily Show, is that we we went out to shoot, went back edited wherever we shot, wrote the death piece, and on the same night, right and we we recorded the same night, like and you know, few pieces are usually separate to death pieces, but this was like the perfect merging of Chat with Trevor and a death piece and UH and a field element and man on the Street all in one day. I mean, that's the you know, for me, And that was this early on in my daily shows maybe one year in and I was like, man, this is the Daily Show. It's best, you know everything. Everyone's operating and firing on all cylinders in a very short time frame. Um, and I'm sorry to answer your question about not being piste off. I mean, part of it is the job, and part of it is I always feel like because I'm a first generation immigrant to America, so I'm in America because by choice, like I want to be there, and um so when I see ship go down, I see like I also see in this particular instance. Yeah, you can say, you know, blatant racism, but the silver lining to this whole story was that everyone got angry by this Fox New piece, not just Asian people, not just Chinatown New York City people, the entire country was like, Yo, this this sucks. And that's why you entered the Z guys, right, because if if most people thought it was okay, it would never have you know, blown up to the point where you know, at that time, people were pretty upset. You know, everyone white people were upset. Every race was pretty upset about this. So if you ask me why I'm not more upset, because oh, it was a cause that everyone already. You know, most people were upset by the issue already, and we were just giving them a platform to express it. You know, who was the target audience for this? Was it? Or I guess who were you aiming this piece towards in a way? Like? Was it was it at the reporter that went out and did it. I you know, his name is Jesse Waters. I personally think we should bleep his name, just bleep his name. Is it at the reporter who went out and said this ignorant ship even though he kind of sort of apologized after the fact. Is it the right wingy Fox news type media outlets that pushed this narrative or was it at the people that actually thought that what he did was real journalism and informative? Yeah? I mean it was I think honestly it uh man, Uh, it was for whoever wanted to listen to it. But also I think as Asian people in America, Uh, they they never had a way to critique the media like that. I think the history your Asian American storytelling in America, there's there's been no one in the media to critique media portrayals of them on a big enough platform. So Honestly, it was almost to put a flag in the sand and be like, oh, you know this, this kind of stuff isn't acceptable anymore, you know. And it was a sentiment I felt there was already in America, and yeah, I kind of symbolically put the flag in like this is the moment. But uh, And I was lucky to be happened to be in a position to do it right because we wanted to show that criticizes news and media. That's what I'll show essentially is right and so um, I happened to be on the perfect platform to do it. But like I said, I think most people America didn't think it was okay even at the time. No, not in the least. The thing that's so interesting about this country, though, is that every minority group is dealing with their own racism. Two. So then when you find out about the new racism, it's like, oh, okay, well, I'll be right there in a second. I'm currently getting beaten the head back up. I'll be right there as soon as I finished dealing with my own traumas. And it's it's very difficult, and I think it's very dope that so many people were willing to speak out, which brings me as a matter of fact, now you already know the role that Trump played and stirring the pot from up until COVID. But at COVID, I feel like that's when the pot went from medium to hot for well, from hot to hotter for anti Asian American sentiment. You know, there was a fifty percent spike and uh anti Asian crime in and then also you know everything that started with COVID and it's starting in China, and then Trump driving the narrative of oh, it's the you know what he said about it. I'm not going to even repeat what they called the coronavirus at the time or whatever, but the China virus is that one. I can say, I'm not gonna say the other one, but it really you can say, I'm not gonna say it. I'm not gonna say the case so that we have to tiptoe around quoting the president in case we say a slur, we can't direct it's just you insert slur here. Just whatever you think he said, he said it. Do you think, like how much of that contributed to the uptick in violence? And the bigger question, the bigger question, do you think that, Like, do you think that like Fox News and Trump were following their base. What were they just giving to people what they want when it turns in terms of stirring up racism or were they leading them to this and then creating racism? Yeah, I mean I think it's one of their go to moves in the playbook is to blame people who look different to them, Right, that's one to go to, um fascist moves, I guess. Um. So I think that was the easy you know, when when bad stuff happens anywhere, I mean, let's just say in America, then people look for someone to blame, right, And so I think putting it on the whole race of people is a way to direct their anger. I think it's also weird in America that they like people. I think Asian people are kind of under the radar a bit until this thing happened, and then now it became It kind of gave people an excuse to like go after Asian people if you're having trouble. But I will say in America, I think what's interesting about being Asian America is that you're kind of always you know, the idea of being a perpetual foreigner in America, like Asian Americans aren't usually like they're always seen as having to like answer for stuff that happened in Asia or you know, like everyone's always putting stuff that happened in Asia on Asian Americans when they're very separate cultures. Like a lot Asian Americans haven't left America before they were like born and raised and they never left, you know, and so it's almost like quite frankly, like African Americans being asked about stuff that happens in Africa, or like Anglo Americans being asked about stuff in the UK, you know, like what happened in what's going on with Bregsit you know, like most people don't know what's happen. A lot of these Asian Americans are just Asian American culture. But I guess my point is that that's that's the that's the way I kind of describe the perpetual foreigner thing is that you're you're always being asked about stuff over there, and so you've got nothing to most or most Asian Americans have nothing to do with the stuff over there. You know. The thing for me, when the uptick happened, when the jump and anti Asian sentiment and the crime started happening, especially in the New York area. Um, you know, it was people of all races perpetuating these crimes. But there was also a lot of videos where sometimes it was a black person taking an Asian person. And so as a black person out and walking around, I'm like, Okay, how do I carry myself to make sure that the Asians know that I'm safe and that I'm not here to punch I will get and it's I'm being silly, but there is this idea and it's no different than at night when you're you live in the city, You're there's a woman five six steps ahead of you on the sidewalk. Right, I'm not trying to creepy out. I know I'm a big dude. So to keep us both comfortable, I'm gonna slow down my step a little bit, give your ten feet so that you know what I mean, like just being conscious of making sure that everybody has a little bit of space and then everybody's comfortable. That was problem. One problem too, was for me because there were two doormen that got fired in New York City for not helping they want an Asian woman who was being attacked on the sidewalk, and my thought was, wow, Okay, if if that happened, what would I do? Me Roy? And in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going to help. I have to break that up. But then there was also a piece of me in my head going okay, when the police come, what are you gonna do to make it look like not the one attacking the Asian? And I'm like, fuck, wow, I've got to call the police on myself and let them know that I'm cool, set my phone up, set up the i G live stream, then go ahead like like being a little fanatical on that side. But there were all of these levels in my head of how could I help, but all still remain safe for police and people that are pulling up with even less information than I have, you know, when I circled the corner. But that's that's that's an interesting thing. We could probably explain a matter of fact, I'm gonna I'm gonna pose that question to our guess. After the break, we're gonna be joined by the wonderful, wonderful Norman Chin. He's the CEO and co founder of leading Asian American Unite for Change. We'll have him on in a second. This is beyond the scenes. Are you enjoying going beyond the scenes with me? Ronnie? I'm loving it. It's the best love. It's too late, it took you too long. No, No, that was the lag. That was the zoom lag. It's too late. It's too late the commercials to start. We're joined now by someone who I trust more than Ronnie Chang. You know, I'm not saying that Runney Chang hasn't done the work. But last I checked, Ronnie Chang wasn't the CEO and co founder of Are you CEO and co founder of Launch? Ronnie Chang? No? I, Unfortunately I was. Launch is leading Asian American Unite for Change. His name is Norman Chin. Norman, thank you for joining us and beyond the scenes. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. So let's jump right back into this discussion. We've talked about Running's piece and everything that went down in Chinatown with Fox News, but I wanted to have you on to talk a little bit more about where we are today with regard to anti Asian sentiment. I wanted to talk to you for a second about the status index and ways that we're able to quantify what's going on? Because the thing that we deal with, no matter what minority group you are, you're told that you're whatever it is you're dealing with, ain't real. It's not real. Well everybody, of course, robbery is up. It's a pandemic. Everybody's on it. Like no, man, I'm telling you, they're attacking us. So how were you all able to assess at a tooth and stereotypes towards Asians over there with the Standish report. Thanks thanks roy Um. No, exactly to your point. These stereotypes and perceptions have been prevalent in American society for decades and actually are at the root cause of hate crimes. If you find, uh you look at research about hate crimes. They stemmed just as Ronnie was saying, from stereotypes initially that then lead to scapegoating and then lead to violence during difficult times and crisis. This is like COVID are once in a lifetime hopefully, so we're seeing a repeat repetition of the cycle of stereotypes leading to stere to skipegoating, leading to violence. So as a new nonprofit last year we were formed in we were looking for existing research on um stereotypes of Asian Americans, and shockingly, the last study that had been done comprehensively was twenty years ago, when they're half as many Asian Americans in the country. And so we thought that's just a glaring uh need. There's a glaring need to do more research out stereotypes, and so we commissioned the Status Index Study, which was really checking on how Americans now perceive Asian Americans, and unlike most other Asian American research that's out there, we interviewed all Americans, so not just Asian Americans about their experience, but also other racial groups. So it was it was quite groundbreaking this year. How safe or how unsafe? Rather would you say, um, Asians fill in America right now and running out throw this to you first, just in general during this time from till now, is your head on the swivel more than it was saying I think it depends on the state. I think in Hawaii it was. It was such a great answer. I mean, that's like a law of America, right, it depends on the state. Right, Um, I will say. And when I went back to New York City at the peak of the pandemic and all the crimes were happening. I definitely was you know what it's you know, that's and that's the thing right the internet was is real life. Real life definitely felt different to my Instagram feed in terms of the amount of violence that was happening on my Instagram feed. So real life felt way way safer than compared to Instagram. But because of Instagram, man, my my head was definitely on the on the swivel the entire time in New York City. You know, I'm I'm looking behind my back. I'm not walking down you know, streets, I don't know I'm sprinting. Making behind you is at least ten feet. I don't racially profile I do. I do my comedy shows. I run from show to show make sure if someone's attacking me is because of my jokes, not because of my race. Um and uh have my have my phone by my side. Uh So basically it's like living in New York City, but more it's what we should have been doing over the last five years. But this just kind of made me more aware and and and not just for myself but for other people as well. If I see like an old Asian person on the street, I'm always like, Okay, well, you know it's my job too. It's my job to make sure she's okay for the length of time where she's in my field of vision, and then I passed off to the next Asian bystanders who's walking in a separate direction. So yeah, it's well looking for other people too. You know, when we see these videos, by the way, normal, I don't know what you feel, and Roy, I mean no, I don't know how you feel when we see these videos happening to elderly Asian people. Well, I'm we're not even I'm not even worried about I'm not thinking about myself. I'm not thinking what that happens to me. I'm thinking, man, that looks like someone, that looks like my relative, that looks my grandma, like my aunts, my grand aunt. Like I'm worried about them more than worried about me. You know, when I see these videos, it's not like I don't stop fearing for my life. I'm like, man, what if there's another Because the people being attacked on the Asian m m A fighters, you know, those are the people, those are the videos we're seeing. You know, what we're seeing the people who can't really defend themselves to that point when we talk about stereotypes, Norman, just in general and just we know how much pop culture delves in that and babes in that, you know, for a number of minorities, but it seems like it's even more unique and even worse in a way for Asians because like some of the stereotypes will also they'll even take something positive and just oh, you do your homework, Oh you're good at math, Like shouldn't we all be good at math? Like even when you take Ronnie's film Crazy Rich Asians, which did I would assume amazing things for helping to debunk some stereotypes. People will turn around and see three well dressed Asians walking down the street and just look at the rich as Asians. Norman, how much does pop culture play a role in that? And have you seen any improvements in any regard that would help you believe that the tide is turning? And how Asians are at least portrayed in entertainment, you know, ron that was one of the key areas of our research is about how Asians are perceived in the media and TV and movies, because that's a key source of information for many communities. About Asian Americans. A lot of the communities don't have Asian American France, and so they look to movies. And the question that you may have heard of that got a lot of press was we asked people to name a prominent Asian American, and of Americans could not name a single prominent Asian American. And the number two and three answers they gave, we're all martial artists. Number two was Jackie Chan, who we love but who is actually not American. He's from Hong Kong. And number three was Bruce Lee, who is also, you know, a martial artists. But but the years so uh. And you look at the roles people see Asian Americans in. The men are the gangsters, they're the nerds, the technicians. The women are the massus workers, they're the um the way the waitress exactly, all the step roles. So a lot of those stereotypes still persist. You know. Research was important because no one again had done this research for twenty years, so we re established, we quantified a baseline. This is where things are. It's not good, but at least we know where we are. Hopefully over the next one year, three year, five year, ten years won't be Americans who still can't name a freaking prominent Asian Americans. So we're hoping to track progress over time. But but to your point, yes, a lot of these stereotypes still exist. The fact that Ronnie and others were able to show Asians in a positive light. Right, it's being successful and being um frankly physically attractive. Right, when's the last time we saw an Asian American male take his shirt off in a movie? And we had a lot of that crazy rich agents and a lot of the Asian American men in the country we're celebrating, and a lot of Asian American women as well. There are definitely trends and positive signs, and I think a lot more movies and TV shows are coming out, which is really encouraged. But this, this brings me back, you know that, And and that makes me think about the overall solution to everything we're talking about. And there is no one thing, you know, I think in America we always want this, like we want the app that fixes everything. We want the go fund me that will end racism, you know, we want that one home run solution, and like these are complicated social problems multifactorial issues you know, that require attacking from different places. So yeah, one aspect of the attack is you know, pre par henricoding, taking that shirt off in cratizations that that moves the needle a little bit. I won't, you know, it doesn't solve everything, but it definitely helps a little bit. And some of it is where the funding is going, or the on the on the street's actual help, some of its legislation, Some of it is you know, messaging, so so like all this stuff plays into it. And that's why having the data helps, because it helps us understand where we can attack. It also helps prove that there is an issue, you know. Yeah. No. One of the questions we asked our respondents is how would you address these problems about anti Asian American sentiment and stereotypes in the US. And the answers were exactly what what what you mentioned? In terms of awareness, in terms of legislation, in terms of UH solidarity, in terms of um more media attention. The other key solution is education, and I wanted to touch upon that. You know, when we grew up, very few of us had the opportunity to learn about Asian American history in classrooms. In the US and now, as you know, recently Illinois mandated the teaching of Asian American history and public schools, which is a huge milestone, and other states are moving in that direction, and so clearly more Asian American history knowledge is important. These are cycles. There. There were lynchings in eighteen seventy one of Asian Americans in l A. People no one knows about that. A lot of people don't even know about the Pannice interment during World War Two. And so to make this information more accessible to young kids, who are really the key to address before they become racist adults, we're working with a group called the Asian American Education Project to provide a graphic, novel overview of the highlights of Asian American history. So think about your fourth grade, fifth grade kid, you don't want to learn even about your own history. How do you make Asian American history interesting and accessible? And we're working with an award winning comic book Greater to create an overview of it that hits all the highlights of Asian American history, so that schools and teachers and students can get this information in a very accessible way. We can share it digitally as well. These are the things we're trying to do to really have an impact, to create more education. But to Ronnie's point, it's it's a it's a movement that needs to happen, and we're starting to get organized, starting to have resources, but there's a ton of work to do in many different areas and many different areas, many different areas. If anyone listening to this, best anything to take away from anything we're saying is go find the people who are doing things, because there's a ton of people who care and there's a ton of people who are doing smart things in many different areas. You know, maybe you like being a vigilante on the street. You know, there's vigilante groups you can join to beat people up. Maybe you like being a bit more you know, like, uh, you like raising money to help small businesses. You know, there's organizations raising money to help the businesses in China. There's there's people trying to um puts as norm just mentioned, educate kids. You know, there's people are doing stuff. Okay, so then let's talk solutions after the break, because I have a couple of questions of how I non Asian can be a part of this This is so dope running. I feel like the white women talking to black people like I just want you to know that I see you, and I am an ally thank you. We're trying to get the Karen's on the board. I'm black. I'm a Keith beyond the scenes. Will be right back. When asked to name a prominent Asian American, Norman, I have all the statistics here, man, this is very interesting of Americans couldn't do with eleven percent named Jackie chan Pent, Bruce Lee, five percent, Lucy Lou two percent, Kamala Harris, and you brought up you know what percentage was? Did they mentioned there? Hang on, let musoom man, it's probably statistically insignificant. Trick question. Trick question, Ronnie, You're not on the list next year, number next. Let's talk solutions on how I can get on that list. I want to be with the two now, Norman, you brought up something with regards to one solution that I think makes sense, which is education and the curriculum. You know I grew up in Alabama, which is I grew up in Alabama public schools late eighties, all of the nineties. And I say this not joking. I am not joking with you, I did not meet my first Asian person until the eighth grade. So in terms of these areas where a lot of this bigger tree is happening and a lot of that bigger tree is believed, there's not a lot of Asians there, And so I know that there's definitely a role that the school system plays. And you know, Ronnie, you talked about people being active within their own communities and connecting with the It's crazy because you're basically saying the same thing that black people, the same thing we've been saying to white people. Find someone that's doing the work, and show up and go what can I do well at the start as a starting point. Yeah, yeah, as a starting point, show up and and vote, and show up and and get involved the organizations that i'd doing things because, like I said before the break, there's a ton of organizations while trying to help. And I'm in America by choice. I'm in America by choice because I think there's more good people than than bad people, way more good people than bad people. And I think the fact that we are talking about this, the fact that Norm did this study, it shows that there are people who can you know, there's Um those are kind of more of the grassroot, you know, solutions. But let's talk on the political side. Norman did the anti Asian hate crime bill, the COVID nighteen hate crimes. At is that enough from President Biden to help stop the swell of what you've seen happening in your community. No, I mean, I think most people would agree it's it's the tip of the iceberg or what needs to be done. But it's a positive step in the right direction. So, you know, it helps to create more reporting channels for people to report the hate crimes. That's important. Um. There it sets aside information money for education about racism ards Asian Americans. That's all important, But it's like the drug war, like you've got to started to fight the war at the source, right, what's causing these hate crimes and what's leading to the stereotypes and the scapegoating and the violence. And so media is very powerful, Hollywood, TV, movies, Um, the news is very powerful, right in terms of how Asian American stories are reported, and so there are groups activating to try to get more coverage about Asian American stories. Education, as we talked about, is extremely important to shape hearts and minds. We were fortunate in terms of politically to be invited by Congressman Ted Lieu to present to the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus and where we shared our data so that the legislators and the political leaders can have more information that they can use to fight their battles. And so that's one way we're trying to link with the legislators, you know, getting Asian American history taught in schools. That requires legislation, right, and so it requires political activity, and so that is a very important channel to get things done as well. All right, So Norman, there are certain crimes in this country that get more attention from the media than others, crimes of a racial nature. How much does the media player role? And I the example I want to use is the mass shootings of the Asian massage parlors in Atlanta. You have a gentleman who goes from parlor to parlor killing people. And I know that there was an element of sexual addiction that was a part of that, but that does not absolve race from also being a piece of the motive for those crimes. But not only does that not get turned into well did he kill him because of sexual shame, or did he kill him because they were Asian, or was it a little bit of They just stopped talking about it altogether. So let me amplify your point with a couple of additional data points there, um Roy. First of all, we did our study in uh March April of this year, and one of the regrets we had when we first did the study was, Gosh, I wish we had done the study before the Atlanta killings, because then even more Americans would be unaware. Right, we thought everyone would know about the anti Asian American sentiment. Shockingly, againty of Americans, basically a third of Americans say they're not aware of the increase in hate crimes towards Asian Americans in the past year. So I don't know where they're getting the information from, but clearly it's not share. It's not representing the hate crimes that are affecting women in Atlanta and other places. That's one data point. The second data point is I just was on at an event in the Bay Area with Dion Limb, who's a local newscaster and really prominent activists in the Asian American community, and she says now that when she goes to her producers and has you know, sometimes five or six anti Asian American hate crime stories each day, they're saying, you know, we're not the public is not interested in these stories anymore, so we need to find something else to report on. So exactly to your point, these stories are getting buried, and so how do you solve these problems? And these are systemic problems for sure. One era that a lot of people are focusing on, I think makes sense is representation. How many of their producers or senior people at these media companies are Asian American and care about Asian American stories, right, I think that is critical, and I think that's an area where we have seen, you know, significant underrepresentation of Asian Americans and leadership positions. One of the key statistics from our study was that half of Americans think that Asian Americans are actually well represented. They think, hey, model minority, we're smart, hardworking, we must be successful, it must be leaders Well, actually we're underrepresented in terms of leadership positions, in terms of Supreme Court justices in which there are zero Asian Americans, in terms of the corporate world, in terms of the political world, in terms of owning TV stations and movies, movies stations, etcetera. We are severely underrepresented, yet people are under the illusion that Asian Americans are well represented. So I think representation is a key part of the puzzle. Uh. And only when you have leaders who appreciate and understand Asian, the Asian American experience, and the Black experience and the Hispanic experience do we have real diversity and true you know, ACRIC coverage of America and so um. We're hoping that we'll see some changes in that area in the next few years as well. All Right, I'll leave you gentlemen with this question, and I'll let Norman go first, because I know Ronnie and I are going to argue, how do we, Norman get other minorities to understand that the Asian fight is also our fight? Mhm, Because and I was just and as a black person, I'm just gonna be you know, very blunt with with some of the Cinamons and other communities where it's okay, well, how do you get a anti Asian hate crime beal before it was, we've been trying to get it. How do we get other groups because everybody is so insular. You know, Ronnie's very right in that regard in America where everybody's just tending to their own farm. You know, I've got my problems to deal with the Latinos that we're focusing on our things, and how do we get other minorities to understand that if anybody can break through, it's good for everybody. Totally. Yeah, A lot of the issues that we identify apply to other racial groups and people of color, and so one of our goals is much it's more outreach to other communities of color, to reach out to the African American black community and Hispanic Latino community. There is much more that we share in common in terms of our experience, uh, in a white America that then that separates us. So outreach is critical. Um. We also believe that working closely with these partners on initiatives such as diversity in the media, such as fair representation are really critical. So um yeah, I think it's it's a key part of the solution. And I say the onus is not just on it's on both on both sides of the equation. Right. In our study, we found that, uh, that certain communities have less inner action with Asian Americans and so they don't know Asian American culture. That's why they see them as others. So we need to build more bridges between these communities. Who people can appreciate. The Asian Americans who some people think are as cold and unfriendly and not warm. Well, they've never been to my house or Ronnie's house for a dinner party, right, They've never had time to hang out with our grandparents and our parents and and just really enjoy each other's company and have great Asian food together. We need to share that experience more, uh and let people know just you know, how warm and dynamic our culture is. Uh. And also again break down these barriers. So I think at the micro level, interaction among different groups is really really critical. That's how you just like you. I mean you didn't maybe didn't meet the Asian American to eighth grade, but then once you get to know Asian Americans, then you start to have a more well rounded understanding of them and hopefully developed good friendships. So, Ronnie, how do you get me to care about your ship? I don't mean Asians, I mean me as Roy caring about Ronnie's problems, just your personal problems. Man, get you invested into my life. Maybe give you some equity to your that's a separate conversation. I mean we were pretty investing in each other's lives already. I think I think the community as a whole, you know. Uh, someone put it to me really well once. Look, I don't have the solutions, man, I tell jokes and boss for a living. I don't know how to save the world. What I do know is that, yeah, we we there's more good people than bad people in America. And that goes for minority groups. There's more good minority group people, goes without saying obviously than bad people. Um. And when we join together on issues that we do agree on, increases our voting strength. It creates a more powerful voting block. Because Asian people are what four percent? Nor was it four percent? Seven? Right? And what's the African Americans are? What thirteen? Nick Cannon just had four more kids. African Latin knows how what if you joined all together, there's a voting block there. You know, there's a stronger voting block which which allows you if we work together to get legislation pass it, it benefits all of us, you know, and nothing against white people too. We need white people to help out, and most white people are on board, but when you're it's so hard to explain sometimes, and that's why only minorities get that. And that's why we should get along in America's because sometimes it's not that anyone is blatantly being evil, it's just that the system is self in a way that you can't even begin to explain the issues you're having. How many times have you gone into the room and been like, now, these people are even gonna get what I'm saying. I'm talking about my you know, Asian grandma on the streets who don't you know, they don't understand what you know, They're not gonna get it. Whereas if you talk to Latino people of black people don't understand it more. And so if we can get more like minded people in decision making positions, you know, that's where kind of we can stop moving the needle with change. And that's why we should be joining together as a voting block. You know, that's my argument to you, Roy. I mean, you can also back on me as you always do, and you know we can America continue on. You know what I view I view America as a d m V and everybody's in there for their own issue. But the moment one person starts complaining, you need three other people to start complaining and then that line of justice will move a little bit faster. Norman Chin from Launch, thank you so much leading Asian American Unite for Change. Visit them online. Launch dot org. That's launched like Space Shuttle with two a's launch because I know I have a Southern draw. And you think I said lunch, and I didn't say lunch. I said launch like a rocket to as dot org. Norman, thank you so much for coming beyond the scenes with me. Thank you so much, Roy, Thank you, Ronnie and Ronnie. I'll I'll see you whenever, the whenever, the fun. We're back in the office. Clean up your side please, Okay, all right, that's it, take care of everybody. Listen to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcast, the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to go even further beyond the scenes. Check out the video version of Beyond the Scenes on the Daily Show's YouTube page.