Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. This is the podcast where we dig a little deeper into segments that have already aired on The Daily Show with Trevor Nor Like you've already got the segment, but now forget to give you a little extra Gravy's just a little little extra on the side. It's right. It's like when you watch a Marvel movie and then Samuel L. Jackson appeared to end and you get a little extra movie after the credit. That's what we are. We're the after beyond the credit scenes of the Daily Show. Um, I'm Roy Wood Jr. Today we're going to be talking about a piece that aired in eighteen, a piece that celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of the introduction of Franklin, the first black character ever in the Peanuts comic strip. Let's give him a little sample newspaper. Franklin was great, you can't argue that, But when they put them on TV, it was a different story. All of a sudden, they made a mystereotype did turn himself around? That's my auto. Well, as we are not. Why why couldn't Franklin just do the hokey pokey travel right anyway? Like I hear what you're saying. But I like, I liked having Franklin on the screen, and I think it's important for kids to be able to see a version of themselves. Okay, cool, So if that's the case, the cartoons should honor the original revolutionary spirit of Franklin. If you're gonna make him wrap, do it right. This is America with me today to discuss this piece, this segment its inception. Uh. Two guests. First, one is an Emmy nominated writer and a stand up comedian writer for The Daily Show. I guess I should add that too, since we're going beyond the scenes. Josh Johnson, how are you doing today? So I'm doing well. You know, I can't complain as your side hustle of delivering soothing voicemails to strangers for a dollar a pop. That's a nice microphone you got over there. Thanks, I've made one dollar. Other guests, the voice you just heard is that of cartoonists and creator of the jump Start comic strip, and he has a book coming out. We're gonna talk about that a little later in the pot. Rob Armstrong, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. Thanks for having me. This is very exciting, man. Now, Rob, I want to start with you, and let's I'm gonna just take you back to a little young Roy Wood Jr. I didn't see a lot of representation, as the old people call it, the funny pages. You know, I you know comic strips going up. You know, I was a Garfield guy. I was a Calvin and Hobbs. I pretty much own most everything that Bill Waterson put out. And then for a quick minute I was reading The Phantom. Then my mom saw and didn't like it until then she started like literally cut out certain comic strips that wasn't allowed to read. Like a lot of kids, I did read Peanuts. Although I will say just as in a side in terms of black characters, I appreciated Heathcliff over Garfield because Heathcliff for sure was even if he weren't a black cat, he was for sure thug. He was out there whipping ass and fighting dogs. Everybody. Yeah, he was. Heathcliff was. He was a hard scrapping cat man. Don't be run. He was thug like he was beat guard. Heathcliff with beat Garfield's ass. Right. So, as a cartoonist, I know that you're very familiar with the history of your craft. Can you run us through the history of how Franklin was introduced in the Peanuts strip? Man, Well, first of all, I want to just say that a lot of press has been given to Franklin and and to Shout obviously because of Franklin. But Mori turn I don't know if you guys got We Pals and your local paper growing up. We Pals is the first syndicated comics dripped by a black person in the country, and it was launched in nineteen sixty five. The guy who um created We Pals, his name was Moriy Turner. His strip We Pals wasn't as widely syndicated. He was in hundreds of newspapers, but Shoults and Peanuts was in thousands of newspapers. They were both in my Philadelphia bulletin as a child, and both had enormous impact on me. In nineteen Morey was in the game for three years. He was in This is not meant to be fund that he was in ten newspapers in the whole country, seventeen somewhere around there like compared to Peanuts none existent. When the city's were smoldering. After Dr King's assassination, Maury was in hot demand. Suddenly he was in fifty newspapers sent his phone wouldn't stop ringing hundred newspapers, two hundred newspapers. It was the year to changed his life, and he always felt weird that Dr King had to die for that to happen. You guys, I feel the exact same way because of George Floyd. Like, suddenly a lot of things, including this podcast, happened after George Floyd. Although this isn't directly like there are people literally calling me after the verdict. Um the newspaper in Minneapolis at a jump start after the verdict said, buddy, what's up with that jump start thing? As an ally, we sure would love to We'll make it look well, we'll move Marmaduke over a couple of inches. Thirty two years in the game. That's exactly what happened. I felt. It was surreal. I've been around for a long time. So Franklin that same year and was introduced into the Peanuts cast on July one, right after King got assassinated. Um, a letter shows up and Shall shows his office from this this woman, a Jewish woman named Harriett Glickman. It was around like mid April or so, and of course King died on the fourth and he gets this letter saying, you have this huge platform. You can do something about this. Because you have the voice and the platform that people pay attention to, you should add a black character. And he ignored it. You know, we just kindly said, uh, I don't think that would be a good idea, but she kept pressing. She sent them another letter, and then she sent them another letter. There were a few letters in before he came out and said, if I did something like that, it might come off as condescending. But by then she had told so many of her black friends. I met Harry, she died that long ago, like Harry, so fearless. This is she's so. She had contacted so many black people and she's a little Jewish lady. It was so funny. I'm mad. I said, oh my gosh, I thought you were black. Um. She got other people to say the same thing. So when he listened to these people, either frankly just appeared like out of no way. So he just did it, and the syndicate said, uh, yeah, we're not running these She was my friend and I called him sparky. So if you hear me calling this guy Sparky. Forgive me, I'm being very familiar. Sparky said, um, okay, well I quit whenever I hear people stay. Um I saw that Thanksgiving. Uh bs man, he must have been a racist, not that. Hey he's my friend. I happen to know he's not a racist. But there aren't many people black or white. They are willing to throw away a seventh figure career like that. He said, really, I'm not running now. Wounds Franklin done. And they said that we didn't mean that. That's you know, we want to run them and uh he hey man, he did what Sinatra did for Sammy Strong. Can't come in here. Yeah, he can't come in here and play with us. He can't come in front door. Wein performing. Sinatra was crazy o G like, really, we're out of here. Cobanon was like, wait, is that we didn't mean just just one? One is all right? That's nothing too bad. Yeah, that's a spot on. We almost messed up the money impression, Like wait that that quick? So, Josh, when we talk about inclusion and representation, you know, that's always the conversation today. We need black characters on TV, and we need to say my black faces on that TV as you all were putting this piece together, how difficult was it to try and maintain the balance of sprinkling in this awareness that this character really did change the face of representation for black youth. We'll also find a couple of jokes in there along the way. I feel like anytime something is um insane in a bad way, anytime something is like unacceptable in a bad way, there is something funny about that. Yeah, I mean, so it's like the same way that it's crazy that it took so long for there to be a black character and it just be normal. It's like that is also funny. It's funny because it's wild, you know. And so I think that that's where the jokes come from. Because on one hand, you're like, wow, this is this is we're a little late. If if you if you think about how long we all have been around each other and our kids have been playing together, like that, we're a little late. But then also I think that you you wanna just kind of, like you said, convey that this is a big deal. So I know it's not. I know it's not a big deal. Now we've got like half of HBO is black, now, and like, you know, all these all these shows are just like so there's they're so black that like you have cousins now who are on the show, and you're like you don't even act. It's like, yeah, but they needed somebody. So yeah, like there's there's that much. But you have to take it back a few decades to where it's like there was nothing. And even some of the representation we see now, whether it's Asian or black, it's like it's an overwhelming amount happening quickly recently. It's not as if this is just the world we've always lived in. So I think that those are the main mindset you have to keep in mind when you write for pieces like this, where you have to put it in context to the time, and you also have to acknowledge that, yeah, this is this is like a wild thing. It is. It is as messed up as it is. It is funny that the world could be that messed up. So rob to your point earlier about Mr Schultz having complete autonomy over the creative of his comic strip and choosing to put a black character in this comic strip, I would imagine that he didn't have like there was no diversity and the inclusion board to run your black characters by. There was no correct me if I'm wrong, But I don't imagine that comic books have the same focus group type level of detail before something is released to the public, the way a television show, the way a movie is. What do you think Schultz got right? And where do you think some places where the representation could have been I don't want to say a little bit better, but it was a step in the right direction. But what what else do you wish that you could have seen from the first black comic strip character? Or was Franklin's presence enough for you to get the ball rolling? Roy? I saw what you guys did to my boy Franklin on his fiftieth He was of all the clips are Franklin. We found the one when he's sitting on the on the thanks if the Thanksgiving. So I just don't want him to be the other kid all the time. Even at Thanksgiving. Yeah, they invited him, but look what they ain't fluttering this tihimself. Even the dog gets to sit with the kids, watch the dogs, even at the damn table. It's cool though, Franklin, Franklin look man Franklin, they did you a favor. You don't want none of that bland dass white people Turkey anyway, ain't putting those sprinkles on there. You know they don't season the food right if y'all have Thanksgiving in Africa. I had him breakdancing. I never even saw that breakdancing. I don't know where. I'm like, where did they like? What kind of research team find they go beyond? It was every time with this kid. Anytime you walk down the street in Peanutsville, you might run into Franklin. And when his homeboy pop walking, and even when he's hanging out with his friends, everyone else gets a normal handshake with No, not Franklin. He gotta slap skin. See what I mean? All the other peanuts are just kids. But Franklin's running around Peanutville like a damn baby shaft. He's a tiny bad mother. Your mother, I'm talking about Franklin. Okay, so he's different. We're talking. Just take us back to see different. It's very different. Spark. He had very little to do with TV. He actually trusted two men, Bill Melindez and Lee Mendelsohn. Those two men are responsible for his television success. All those those Christmas specials and all that great pumpkins. Great, but the introduction was tenuous because the world was so tense, you guys, it was just a crazy time. I'm a little older than almost everybody I meet nowadays, and nineteen sixty eight in America was just awful. In the same year that Dr King was assassinated, he got murdered in in April. In July July one, my brother Billy, who was a wild boy. My brother was seven years older than I and he he was just a wild kid. My mom had a single mom, and she had a hard time with Billy anyway. He uh, he went out, it was horsing around with his friends. We lived right near the subway was elevated above the street like in Chicago, and we just here rumbling all day and night. My mom hated it. She was kind of forced to live where we lived and didn't have any way of getting out of that situation. And she was haunted by the subway, the sound of it, and she feared Billy would be killed on it one day because him and his friends were so dude. These guys, they could jump the turnstyle get through those doors before the guy had a chance. Anyway. She sent them downtown and said, listen to I don't want you horsing around. I learn you need to pair sneakers. Here's money for the sneakers. His money for your car fair. We called it the car fair. To get on the subway. Don't jump on it. Don't play around serious, he says, okay, Mom, I won't. He was walking through the doors. It's so in July first one of his friends hop the lugi into the engineer's faces. He booked his head out to check for passengers clearance, put his head out, and one of my friends, my butter, my brother's buddies were hot one, and he realled backwards and shut the door. Wham with that crank bam, and my brother was only halfway in and he got torn in half. Mhm. That was July one, When July thirty one, Franklin was introduced. You guys, there's a very good chance I would not have this career if this dude then show up to cheer me up the same month that happened. The same month that happened. I just loved seeing him. If you won't ask me what Shultz did, right, He listened to somebody do you have a perfect landing? Did you just stick the landing? I mean, you know, come on, man, he didn't know anything about His whole trepidation was built around what do I know about black people and being black? Guy is from Minnesota, and he's like, I'm gonna get it wrong. He's very nervous man, but he got it right. It's okay. You don't have to get it right. He put so much thought and care and the peanuts it became a global icon. I met this guy who was a collector and I was brand new. I was twenty six, you know, I was the youngest cartoonist the syndication doing the whole country. And I met this guy who said, I can help you sell your original strips. That's what I do m and I would never do this today, but you know I needed money. Sure it sounds good to me. So this guy Mark, nice enough guy, was my broker, and I was talking about shoults influence on me. One day he says, oh, Sparky, that's my friend. You want to meet him. I said, wait, who who are you talking about? Sparky shouts that's my buddy. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He says, if you ever come to California, call me, we'll get together. Take it away to meet the sparky shore dude. It was like, but there's nothing to compare that to will be. It'll be like it's nine four and somebody's like, I know Eddie Murphy. Yeah, if anything, You're like, should you be telling me where Eddie Murphy lives? Like Sack, I was like, it was crazy. I walk into this campus. It's not a it's not an office building or anything. It's a it's a disney like environment. He had his own ice skating rink in his own restaurant cafe. Then he had an office type building that you walk into and as you walk in there's an atrium, massive, maybe three stories. This sounds like Murphy. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie that much more money. You're like, what way? So how did you decide what to spend it all? Because I'm actually expecting you to say weirder stuff than what I'm here, because what I'm hearing still seems relatively reasonable. He was. Yeah, he was a reasonable, humble man, which I'm gonna get to in a second. He um, he did have this one celebratory spaced them as you walked in, he just had the red baron, you know, snoopy on the thing. You could look up and it's flunk. I can't even describe it. Just everywhere you look there was something a lot of commemorat presidents and actors and they I love you, Sparky, and that's not realized. His name was Sparking. Everybody calls him Sparker. Everybody, Frank Sinatra, like every all this stuff. I was so eager to meet my my idol. I sent him an original jump Star from my first month of syndication. His office was spartan, famously spartan. He had a desk to draw on a tabled, right letters on a bookcase. He was a gracious reader, and the sofa and my my jump start was the only thing hanging up on the wall of his office. Because I walking, I thought I was seeing things. I said, Um, I said, I get it. Your friend told I thought I was coming, and you framed that. That's very nice. Let's say I get it, man, that's very very I've very touched it. He said, what do you what do you mean? I said, you knew I was coming, so you put the put the thing you put the thing. No, he said, No, your work is great, man, You said, Jumpstart has with Peanuts, has great characters. You can do this comic strip for the rest of your life, he said. But just just remember one thing. Don't let the synthicate, you know, the people who distribute my word. Don't let the synthicate ever tell you what to do. Don't pay any attention to them. The whole office filled filled with non talented people still entertainment to Josh, yeah, it's like the wildest thing about this whole story is just the idea of Charles Schultz talk as ship so like in the office and he's like closed the door behind you, listen, don't let anybody's son you all right, like just like like you. You always imagine him as like talking the way Charlie Brown talks. He's like, nobody knows what they do when you hold your I p okay totally, Josh, I'm not kidding. It's extremely important that the creative person have utter trust in the town that they've been given, because everybody has not been given town. So hey, by the way, Roy, I just want to tell you, probably myself, I would tell you this when when I saw you do is Boston racist. I just thought, like this might be like this ship going to time capsule. It's so good, it's so good. Thank you. You didn't jump on anybody's kid. She never called anybody anything. You just letting them dig themselves into a hole they could not get out of. Just tell me what you think. That's it, that's it. Surely the people of Boston must be feeling all that structural racism. To find out, I went to one of the city's most beloved cathedrals. Fin Way, part I don't see that racism myself, honestly, No, I don't think Boston's racist city. I think that we've got a lot of like attention with with our sports being in the media. So Boston's racist reputation is a conspiracy formed by people who hate Boston sports teams for winning all the damn time. Yes, they love to hate us. Yeah, I don't think if Boston is a racist city at all. So how do you know? I don't feel it. You know, it's just a gut feel. I don't feel like it's racist. I've just never encountered it. I said, oh my god, this guy is an assassin, like with it. Look, you have this pleasant face and everything, and I'm like, he's just taking it to him. Oh well, what you all are able to do, you know, as cartoonists is so beautiful because you have the gift of disarming people. No one reads comic strips with their guard up. You watched The Daily Show in a different sense, so it's like it's hard to explain, but there's always a way to sneak in that knowledge, you know, after the break there's a little fact about Franklin that I didn't know until we was doing the prep for this. And also, Josh, I want to talk to you about some of your favorite um black cartoon characters that maybe inspired you and put you in a different place and made you think, oh, yes, it's okay to be black in this world. I have, I have to I got a white one too, but I definitely got a black one. I got a black one. Now that I'm older, I'm not even sure if he was written by black people. It's beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. I'm gonna be honest. Let me, let me show you what representation can do. Rob. I also used to think that Pigpen was black because he was so dirty, and I just always thought and then not only did I think it was dirt the way they represented pig Pen, I thought it was must because I never associated black people with being dirty. But your aunts and your aunt ties always tell you, boy, you smell out, you smell like outside, y'all need to put some gilder or no, y'all kids stank. I was just like, oh damn, maybe some funky kids I just need to. Like Pigpen just reminded me I need to always take a bath and be fresh. But there was something interesting and Josh, I don't know if you knew this either. Uh well, first off, Josh, did you know that Franklin has a last name? Um? So I didn't know Franklin had last name until more recently. But also, just real quick off of your Pigpen thing, I think that by the time I was growing up, I had there were more black cartoon characters, so I never thought pig Pen was black, but as far as representation goes, he did fully represent poor whites like like like that. For me, when I saw a pig pit, I was like, I know a kid like that. I know that he that he struggling, you know what I mean, And like nobody and we all act like it's not happening. But it's like he shows up. He's got weirder stories than everybody. We're all eleven and he's smoking. It's like that's Pigpen, Like, how could it not be? He had no last name either. By the way, Pigpen has no last name. Schroeder has no last name, and Franklin had no last name for a long time. But now Franklin's last name. I found out it's Armstrong, Rob Armstrong. Is there any relation? Is he named after you? Did happen? Well, I was in my office, uh my cap, my studio working, and the phone rings and spark. He's on the phone. He says, listen, I'm not gonna keep you on the phone. I just want you to um help me out with something. You ever, I wonder why Franklin's got the last name. I said, Uh, well, I thought Franklin might be his last name. Sometimes, no person that's their last He says, no, no, no, I'm doing a video. It's going to go strate. The DVD called him You're in the super Bowl, Charlie Brown. And in that video, here's a p a announcer and he announces the kid's first name and last name, and then they running out and they kick a football and throw football or whatever, and Charlie Brown runs out, and Linus van Pelt runs out, and Lucy dam Pelt runs out. But in the script you can see that when Franklin is called, there's that space in there. Let's say kid An now success and now Franklin, and there's a kind of a we awkward like to go, you know, kind of He said, that's not that's not cool, right. How would you feel if the p announcer says, and now Franklin arm Strong runs down? How would you feel about that? I said, uh, well, you're not thinking about putting my name in your video. He said, no, no, no, I'm thinking about changing his name to your name from now on. There are a few hard to believe moments in my life, and I already talked about one. That's the other one. The other one's are awful things, great, Josh. This is this is basically like if you went over to Eddie Murphy's house and then Eddie Murphy was like, I'm thinking of changing my last name to Johnson. I'm Eddie Johnson. Theyby always have to wonder, it's like, should I quit now then like should I like, should I stop because I've done it everything? Yeah, this is the wild. I mean first it was the it was the advice with it, like, hey, don't let those sun do you make sure that like honestly that like that story is already like perfect and amazing, and in say, but apart me wishes that he went further, like he he just put a pistol all the desk. It was like, I remember to keep that fag on you, like just like Paul Schultz is actually like at it's safe, thug and nobody do. He's like about my bunny, about my time, Josh, what were your favorite did you have? Because I think what Rob is presented to me is it's made me reflect this. So I've been sitting here thinking the whole time and even telling me stories and I'm like, well, damn, did any black character do that to me? Did any black character make me feel? And I got and I got to have two from my child. I want to hear yours first, So there any black characters don't have to be common strip. Let's just go full television animation as well. Okay. I love the Proud family growing up and so a lot of characters on Proud Family, like Sugar Baba, everybody. I felt bad for the dad, Like, like, honestly, the dad in Proud Family, they gave it to him too hard because he's catching it from all angles. Like even as a kid, I was watching a Proud Family and I was like, this is why Dad's don't stay. This is like he got look at what he has to deal with. He got Sugar Baba, he got his wife, he got the kids, he got other kids coming over, these weird kids coming over. It's like, why would you sign up for this life? Uh? The other one I loved um Black Panther. I'm not gonna lie. A part of me and this is like, you know, like when you're a teenager and you're like real like I don't know if I can speak for the two of you, but sometimes in your teagers you're already rebellious. So then you get a little militant, like you get a little like oh oh, and then you start learning like American history, you get mad at everything. A part of me was like like, I know that the story story we saw in Black Panther was written from Black Panther, but a part of me was like full kill Monger, Like I was like, man kill Monger just right, all right, So how about how about we blow up everything? Like I think that, yeah, because I'm like reading compos as a teenager, which is already niche. And then and then I'm coming across characters who were supposed to be crazy, but that I'm like, they might just be correct, you know, because also when you're a black kid, you have to make characters black subtimes. So like when you're a black kid, any character that doesn't have peach or pink skin is black. So Piccolo from Dragon ball Z black fanos black, like like everybody that is not white is black. And a black kid's vibe where they're coming up reading comics, he's just nailed one of my people that I was about to name. Oh, Panther from the ThunderCats. Yeah, he's blue. That was my dog because he was like the leader. He was very wise, and you know, he was always fixing ship. You know, Panthro was always the repair man of all the ThunderCats. Pan had those shoulders too. Yeah, it's just deep vote line. Oh, you shouldn't be doing that, like a like a living ancestor. It's the code of the ThunderCats. That it's a stupid code. No, the code that served us well for centuries. And the other one was Roadblock from G I Joe. But now that I'm older and I looked back at it, they was always kind of making him rhyme when he talked, and ship it was it was it was almost jive full of good eat. Huh, what's it to you, Jack, I'm hungry, I'm a gourmet chef. And the name's not Jacket's Roadblock. I'm with G I Joe. It wasn't quite but it was close to job. And I'm like, I don't know if this was the right thing to influence me. Surprisingly though, growing up like and this is me not trying to start any comic beef. For whatever reason, fat Albert did not connect with me. And I don't know if it was the music, like I'm not a dancer, Like, I don't know what it was. But like my my older cousins, they loved it. Fat Albert was was their thing. I don't know, if you know. I'm forty two, so I graduated high school ninety six, so by the time I caught Fat Albert, it was kind of on the back end of it, and maybe even syndication here and there. So I don't know if it was because the music wasn't over my error or what, but that was the one I just I could never like I would watch What's Happened, like I would watch all the black Live sitcoms, But when Fat Albert came on, I was like, I was trying to go outside. What a what an attack? First of all, that wasn't an attack. No, no, no, no, I'm just saying, think about if you're like, if the creator is listening, that's so funny because it's like you're already a kid. It's a car toon and when their cartoon comes all you're like, I think I need some exercise. I loved the Fat Aubret, you guys, I was real into fat out. I was so into fat Altbut I painted a giant mural my first time painting a mural in my bedroom. It was it was, you know, it was five and a half whatever I could reach. It was five and halfy tall, big fat belly. I loved fat Alburt. It's uh, it's so awful, like the legacy of fat Aburat so tarnage. I was, yeah, I was, I'm a Philly dude. That cartoon was set in Philadelphia. Kazi was a Philly I mean he still is still was a Philly dude. Yeah, legendary, you know. Cartoon. It was just I don't know. They started dancing Josh and I was like, oh know how to dance? Girls don't like me. Where's my baseball? But I'm just saying, okay. My only perspective that I'm coming from it is like, since it's a cartoon that you're a kid, It's like, let's let's pretend for a second, foul Albert was a serial or a candy and then somebody put it from you or you were like, you know what, I should eat my vegetables. It's like it's the complete opposite of how kids are supposed to respond to those things. And so that's why it's killing me that you watched it and you even saw what you saw the theme song and you were like, um, let me do some calisthetics, just like big words for a little kid too. Just I think I need some pull ups in my life or something. We'll be come back, Rob. I want to talk to you about the inspiration that you try to put into your characters in the way that you try to influence. Well, you know, the better question is how much of it is overt versus covert influencing? Uh in the content that you create with jump starting, and we're gonna talk a little bit about the book. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. We have been talking about black cartoon characters and Franklin, who was the first black? Do we know? What? Do we even? Was Franklin from the West side of the South. Did Charles Schultz rob did he get that beat into Franklin's backstory? Two parent homes, single parent home, and Peanuts. They all come from a kind of murky parent home. But Franklin, unlike the other characters, talks about his grandfather. He quotes his grandfather a lot. Franklin said to Charlie Brown, my grandfather fought um Fort in Vietnam, so you know he went away for a long time. And Charlie brownson, my dad, my grand My dad's a barber. He fought in the war. But I don't know what you want. Has no idea, No, he has no idea. Parents go to father like that's major, not enough. So Harrods are Harrison, your parents are parents, and Peanuts they're like you know whin want Want Want why you know I like how Yeah, Charlie has a has a conversation with Franklin's like, listen, I have an agreement at my house. I don't talk to them and they don't talk to me. Okay, we eat at the same time and we stay out of each other's business. All right, So rob, let's talk a little bit about Jump Start, and let's talk about the book. What's interesting about Jump Start to me is the level in which you choose intentionally at times to bathe the characters and positivity and humor and positivity. You're not using what was me or home drum or you know, like as to use peanuts as an analogy snatching the football away from someone and you know, and denying the character of the reward like you had you had a strip with the kids just want to spend time with dad. Dad just got home and Dad is like, get off me. I just need to breathe. It's just the kids waiting to hug their father, and like, like, like, what are the storylines that you're trying to draw to with jump Star, because it really does leave you feeling good and better about the world more often than not, it's a subversive attempt to address a very hot topic in the black community, rather than tell people, Um, I'm not this, you're that's a misperception. That's a misconception, that's racist, that stereotypes, sort of telling them that Jump Starts sneaks in a different door with a lot of things to refute that Joe is um desperate to spend time with his kids and goes out of his way to be entertaining. He's got a ritual with his twins with the sock po bit called the sock Ness Monster in the bathtub and all that. He's just one of these dads that would spend all his free time with his kids if he could. Was his wife and his kids. He's desperately in love with his wife. Marcy is his girl. You know, Joe doesn't have a fling affairs and all this. He doesn't look at. Oh many a great special edition series, though the Jump Start Side Chick run like a special Tinna. Don't let me tell you what to do, but you know, keep talking. I was warned a long time ago someone suggests to you to have one of your characters run off with that girl from the office. Don't don't don't listen to him. Roy. I will take it under advice, and take everything under advisement. I never say never, but I wanna. You, guys, here's the thing. People think I came up like that like my characters. People think I have a nuclear family that I was raised with a mom and a dad and all that. Or have a lot of brothers like Marcy's got twelve stepbrothers one place in NFL. The huge to our giants, you know, one is eighth, he tall, He teaches kindergarten, He wants a pastor, and wants a fireman, and all of that is made up for the sake of presenting something other than what people are expecting to see. I'm just trying to stun the reader sometimes and have them think, wow, that's I never saw that. You never saw that coming. And I want to do it in a way that it's charming. I want to make people think twice before being big at it. Calling people racist is tricky. Racism isn't what people might think it is. Racism is awful. It's someone deliberately holding you back, impeding your progress, hurting you politically, coming up with bullshit to arrest you with to stick on you, and like bigger triato is is more pervasive, kind of a narrow mindedness that affects us. That's almost everyone. And I want my black reader also to rejump start and feel like they're seeing something new that they've never seen before. It's not like the Cosby Show. It's not like that Joe was an actual cop. Like Joe has been shot, like he has been shot by joy riders, black kids in the car, all that. Like he's just out there doing police work, you know what I mean. So when all this police stuff happened and cops got vilified, Joe didn't get vilified. My my profile was elevated during BLM like cops shows were taken off television, and my profile went boom because I do a character driven work, not a circumstance driven work, not a not a I'm not going to comment on the newspaper today. These are people to my readers. They seem to be going through life love and disappointment, and they seem to be redemptive. They just loving each other and it was around them no matter what, and that can help influence a lot of social good. Josh, what is it about stand up? Or maybe you disagree with me on this, But Rob makes a good case for the repetitive nuance of humanizing characters, thus eventually influencing your views. Right, comedy we don't have that luxury In most instances. You have an hour in any market on TV, you have an hour. Do you think comedy can be an influence for social good or because the nature of our performance genre, we don't get the luxury of that nuance all the time. I think, I think you just have to make sure that that's how you come off. I think that when when it's you as an individual, you become something more than just checking boxes. When when you speak and if people get to know you, I mean one of the things that comes with its fame. I think that with a certain amount of fame, people are are seen as more than just this person who thinks this thing, and people give them a little bit more of an opportunity to express a nuanced point. But I think that it's there, but it's just it's very tough for it to be that that's same, not just because they are two different mediums, but I think that with stand up it is like easier to twist someone's words or to like willfully misinterpret what they're trying to say, um, And I think it comes with a body of work and just a public persona that's like lay it out over years to give people the time of day. Yeah, Rob, tell us about the book, tell us what the book is and where people can find the book. Brother, So, uh, my newest book. It's called on a Roll, And I'm so like, it's just an honor, honestly because this is the only thirty year treasury by black cartoonists in history. It's the first one like it. You know, you see Calvin and Hobbs books in the far Side books. This is all jumps thought, brother, And it's got more than just comic strips in it. It's got it's got paintings I've done, it's got it is a that's my death, that's this death right, and it's got five hundred strips like I felt, were my best work, my best best representation of how thirty years have gone. And I know you'll like it. I know you're like anyone can read a collection. I think you just gave me you know what will be you know, little activity for me in the five year old. He's getting decent with the reading. He is interested in humor. I try not to encourage it, but I will expose him to anything he shows interesting. So instead of having him laugh at Garfield and then he'll grow up, just wanted to eat lazagna all the time, respectfully. Jim Davis, no disrespect to Garfield, Garfield all right with Garfield, Garfield and friends every Saturday morning in the nineties. That was my ship. Uh so we done. What would be wild is if Jim Davis was a thug too. So it's like they both have like a low key thing that nobody knew about. Like and like Jim Davis, stay ready, he'd be listening for anybody that breaks him up. Ruling is why Charles Schultz put the gut all the desk. I was like, keep that thing. Are you all right? You never know? You never know? Well, thank you so much, uh, Rob, the book is on a roll, a jump start treasury, Rob Armstrong, thank you so much for coming beyond the scenes with us. Josh Johnson as always, Thank you, get sir. Are you you back out on the road. I guess not. We're back in studio, So that's gotta work now. Yeah, if you're asking about dates that have to promote your your correct. I do not have that that Betty. Right now, I've all the road with Trevor, so whatever his dates are, you can see me open up for him. And that's about it. Within you straight then, thank you so much, Rob, thank you so much. Josh. That's all the time we have for today. I wish we had more time, man, this is this is history. I would because you know the next story from you about Charles Schultz was gonna be about his private lear. Jenny probably owned three planets, all that off that peanuts money. Look, hopefully we've taken you beyond the scenes. Let's see you next week. Are you enjoying yourself? Well, if you are, you can do the podcast things lik him and subscribing and leave a nice little comments where you say how smooth my voice is. Make sure you add that in the with you smooth voice

Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. This is the podcast where we dig a little deeper into segments that have already aired on The Daily Show with Trevor Nor Like you've already got the segment, but now forget to give you a little extra Gravy's just a little little extra on the side. It's right. It's like when you watch a Marvel movie and then Samuel L. Jackson appeared to end and you get a little extra movie after the credit. That's what we are. We're the after beyond the credit scenes of the Daily Show. Um, I'm Roy Wood Jr. Today we're going to be talking about a piece that aired in eighteen, a piece that celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of the introduction of Franklin, the first black character ever in the Peanuts comic strip. Let's give him a little sample newspaper. Franklin was great, you can't argue that, But when they put them on TV, it was a different story. All of a sudden, they made a mystereotype did turn himself around? That's my auto. Well, as we are not. Why why couldn't Franklin just do the hokey pokey travel right anyway? Like I hear what you're saying. But I like, I liked having Franklin on the screen, and I think it's important for kids to be able to see a version of themselves. Okay, cool, So if that's the case, the cartoons should honor the original revolutionary spirit of Franklin. If you're gonna make him wrap, do it right. This is America with me today to discuss this piece, this segment its inception. Uh. Two guests. First, one is an Emmy nominated writer and a stand up comedian writer for The Daily Show. I guess I should add that too, since we're going beyond the scenes. Josh Johnson, how are you doing today? So I'm doing well. You know, I can't complain as your side hustle of delivering soothing voicemails to strangers for a dollar a pop. That's a nice microphone you got over there. Thanks, I've made one dollar. Other guests, the voice you just heard is that of cartoonists and creator of the jump Start comic strip, and he has a book coming out. We're gonna talk about that a little later in the pot. Rob Armstrong, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. Thanks for having me. This is very exciting, man. Now, Rob, I want to start with you, and let's I'm gonna just take you back to a little young Roy Wood Jr. I didn't see a lot of representation, as the old people call it, the funny pages. You know, I you know comic strips going up. You know, I was a Garfield guy. I was a Calvin and Hobbs. I pretty much own most everything that Bill Waterson put out. And then for a quick minute I was reading The Phantom. Then my mom saw and didn't like it until then she started like literally cut out certain comic strips that wasn't allowed to read. Like a lot of kids, I did read Peanuts. Although I will say just as in a side in terms of black characters, I appreciated Heathcliff over Garfield because Heathcliff for sure was even if he weren't a black cat, he was for sure thug. He was out there whipping ass and fighting dogs. Everybody. Yeah, he was. Heathcliff was. He was a hard scrapping cat man. Don't be run. He was thug like he was beat guard. Heathcliff with beat Garfield's ass. Right. So, as a cartoonist, I know that you're very familiar with the history of your craft. Can you run us through the history of how Franklin was introduced in the Peanuts strip? Man, Well, first of all, I want to just say that a lot of press has been given to Franklin and and to Shout obviously because of Franklin. But Mori turn I don't know if you guys got We Pals and your local paper growing up. We Pals is the first syndicated comics dripped by a black person in the country, and it was launched in nineteen sixty five. The guy who um created We Pals, his name was Moriy Turner. His strip We Pals wasn't as widely syndicated. He was in hundreds of newspapers, but Shoults and Peanuts was in thousands of newspapers. They were both in my Philadelphia bulletin as a child, and both had enormous impact on me. In nineteen Morey was in the game for three years. He was in This is not meant to be fund that he was in ten newspapers in the whole country, seventeen somewhere around there like compared to Peanuts none existent. When the city's were smoldering. After Dr King's assassination, Maury was in hot demand. Suddenly he was in fifty newspapers sent his phone wouldn't stop ringing hundred newspapers, two hundred newspapers. It was the year to changed his life, and he always felt weird that Dr King had to die for that to happen. You guys, I feel the exact same way because of George Floyd. Like, suddenly a lot of things, including this podcast, happened after George Floyd. Although this isn't directly like there are people literally calling me after the verdict. Um the newspaper in Minneapolis at a jump start after the verdict said, buddy, what's up with that jump start thing? As an ally, we sure would love to We'll make it look well, we'll move Marmaduke over a couple of inches. Thirty two years in the game. That's exactly what happened. I felt. It was surreal. I've been around for a long time. So Franklin that same year and was introduced into the Peanuts cast on July one, right after King got assassinated. Um, a letter shows up and Shall shows his office from this this woman, a Jewish woman named Harriett Glickman. It was around like mid April or so, and of course King died on the fourth and he gets this letter saying, you have this huge platform. You can do something about this. Because you have the voice and the platform that people pay attention to, you should add a black character. And he ignored it. You know, we just kindly said, uh, I don't think that would be a good idea, but she kept pressing. She sent them another letter, and then she sent them another letter. There were a few letters in before he came out and said, if I did something like that, it might come off as condescending. But by then she had told so many of her black friends. I met Harry, she died that long ago, like Harry, so fearless. This is she's so. She had contacted so many black people and she's a little Jewish lady. It was so funny. I'm mad. I said, oh my gosh, I thought you were black. Um. She got other people to say the same thing. So when he listened to these people, either frankly just appeared like out of no way. So he just did it, and the syndicate said, uh, yeah, we're not running these She was my friend and I called him sparky. So if you hear me calling this guy Sparky. Forgive me, I'm being very familiar. Sparky said, um, okay, well I quit whenever I hear people stay. Um I saw that Thanksgiving. Uh bs man, he must have been a racist, not that. Hey he's my friend. I happen to know he's not a racist. But there aren't many people black or white. They are willing to throw away a seventh figure career like that. He said, really, I'm not running now. Wounds Franklin done. And they said that we didn't mean that. That's you know, we want to run them and uh he hey man, he did what Sinatra did for Sammy Strong. Can't come in here. Yeah, he can't come in here and play with us. He can't come in front door. Wein performing. Sinatra was crazy o G like, really, we're out of here. Cobanon was like, wait, is that we didn't mean just just one? One is all right? That's nothing too bad. Yeah, that's a spot on. We almost messed up the money impression, Like wait that that quick? So, Josh, when we talk about inclusion and representation, you know, that's always the conversation today. We need black characters on TV, and we need to say my black faces on that TV as you all were putting this piece together, how difficult was it to try and maintain the balance of sprinkling in this awareness that this character really did change the face of representation for black youth. We'll also find a couple of jokes in there along the way. I feel like anytime something is um insane in a bad way, anytime something is like unacceptable in a bad way, there is something funny about that. Yeah, I mean, so it's like the same way that it's crazy that it took so long for there to be a black character and it just be normal. It's like that is also funny. It's funny because it's wild, you know. And so I think that that's where the jokes come from. Because on one hand, you're like, wow, this is this is we're a little late. If if you if you think about how long we all have been around each other and our kids have been playing together, like that, we're a little late. But then also I think that you you wanna just kind of, like you said, convey that this is a big deal. So I know it's not. I know it's not a big deal. Now we've got like half of HBO is black, now, and like, you know, all these all these shows are just like so there's they're so black that like you have cousins now who are on the show, and you're like you don't even act. It's like, yeah, but they needed somebody. So yeah, like there's there's that much. But you have to take it back a few decades to where it's like there was nothing. And even some of the representation we see now, whether it's Asian or black, it's like it's an overwhelming amount happening quickly recently. It's not as if this is just the world we've always lived in. So I think that those are the main mindset you have to keep in mind when you write for pieces like this, where you have to put it in context to the time, and you also have to acknowledge that, yeah, this is this is like a wild thing. It is. It is as messed up as it is. It is funny that the world could be that messed up. So rob to your point earlier about Mr Schultz having complete autonomy over the creative of his comic strip and choosing to put a black character in this comic strip, I would imagine that he didn't have like there was no diversity and the inclusion board to run your black characters by. There was no correct me if I'm wrong, But I don't imagine that comic books have the same focus group type level of detail before something is released to the public, the way a television show, the way a movie is. What do you think Schultz got right? And where do you think some places where the representation could have been I don't want to say a little bit better, but it was a step in the right direction. But what what else do you wish that you could have seen from the first black comic strip character? Or was Franklin's presence enough for you to get the ball rolling? Roy? I saw what you guys did to my boy Franklin on his fiftieth He was of all the clips are Franklin. We found the one when he's sitting on the on the thanks if the Thanksgiving. So I just don't want him to be the other kid all the time. Even at Thanksgiving. Yeah, they invited him, but look what they ain't fluttering this tihimself. Even the dog gets to sit with the kids, watch the dogs, even at the damn table. It's cool though, Franklin, Franklin look man Franklin, they did you a favor. You don't want none of that bland dass white people Turkey anyway, ain't putting those sprinkles on there. You know they don't season the food right if y'all have Thanksgiving in Africa. I had him breakdancing. I never even saw that breakdancing. I don't know where. I'm like, where did they like? What kind of research team find they go beyond? It was every time with this kid. Anytime you walk down the street in Peanutsville, you might run into Franklin. And when his homeboy pop walking, and even when he's hanging out with his friends, everyone else gets a normal handshake with No, not Franklin. He gotta slap skin. See what I mean? All the other peanuts are just kids. But Franklin's running around Peanutville like a damn baby shaft. He's a tiny bad mother. Your mother, I'm talking about Franklin. Okay, so he's different. We're talking. Just take us back to see different. It's very different. Spark. He had very little to do with TV. He actually trusted two men, Bill Melindez and Lee Mendelsohn. Those two men are responsible for his television success. All those those Christmas specials and all that great pumpkins. Great, but the introduction was tenuous because the world was so tense, you guys, it was just a crazy time. I'm a little older than almost everybody I meet nowadays, and nineteen sixty eight in America was just awful. In the same year that Dr King was assassinated, he got murdered in in April. In July July one, my brother Billy, who was a wild boy. My brother was seven years older than I and he he was just a wild kid. My mom had a single mom, and she had a hard time with Billy anyway. He uh, he went out, it was horsing around with his friends. We lived right near the subway was elevated above the street like in Chicago, and we just here rumbling all day and night. My mom hated it. She was kind of forced to live where we lived and didn't have any way of getting out of that situation. And she was haunted by the subway, the sound of it, and she feared Billy would be killed on it one day because him and his friends were so dude. These guys, they could jump the turnstyle get through those doors before the guy had a chance. Anyway. She sent them downtown and said, listen to I don't want you horsing around. I learn you need to pair sneakers. Here's money for the sneakers. His money for your car fair. We called it the car fair. To get on the subway. Don't jump on it. Don't play around serious, he says, okay, Mom, I won't. He was walking through the doors. It's so in July first one of his friends hop the lugi into the engineer's faces. He booked his head out to check for passengers clearance, put his head out, and one of my friends, my butter, my brother's buddies were hot one, and he realled backwards and shut the door. Wham with that crank bam, and my brother was only halfway in and he got torn in half. Mhm. That was July one, When July thirty one, Franklin was introduced. You guys, there's a very good chance I would not have this career if this dude then show up to cheer me up the same month that happened. The same month that happened. I just loved seeing him. If you won't ask me what Shultz did, right, He listened to somebody do you have a perfect landing? Did you just stick the landing? I mean, you know, come on, man, he didn't know anything about His whole trepidation was built around what do I know about black people and being black? Guy is from Minnesota, and he's like, I'm gonna get it wrong. He's very nervous man, but he got it right. It's okay. You don't have to get it right. He put so much thought and care and the peanuts it became a global icon. I met this guy who was a collector and I was brand new. I was twenty six, you know, I was the youngest cartoonist the syndication doing the whole country. And I met this guy who said, I can help you sell your original strips. That's what I do m and I would never do this today, but you know I needed money. Sure it sounds good to me. So this guy Mark, nice enough guy, was my broker, and I was talking about shoults influence on me. One day he says, oh, Sparky, that's my friend. You want to meet him. I said, wait, who who are you talking about? Sparky shouts that's my buddy. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. He says, if you ever come to California, call me, we'll get together. Take it away to meet the sparky shore dude. It was like, but there's nothing to compare that to will be. It'll be like it's nine four and somebody's like, I know Eddie Murphy. Yeah, if anything, You're like, should you be telling me where Eddie Murphy lives? Like Sack, I was like, it was crazy. I walk into this campus. It's not a it's not an office building or anything. It's a it's a disney like environment. He had his own ice skating rink in his own restaurant cafe. Then he had an office type building that you walk into and as you walk in there's an atrium, massive, maybe three stories. This sounds like Murphy. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie that much more money. You're like, what way? So how did you decide what to spend it all? Because I'm actually expecting you to say weirder stuff than what I'm here, because what I'm hearing still seems relatively reasonable. He was. Yeah, he was a reasonable, humble man, which I'm gonna get to in a second. He um, he did have this one celebratory spaced them as you walked in, he just had the red baron, you know, snoopy on the thing. You could look up and it's flunk. I can't even describe it. Just everywhere you look there was something a lot of commemorat presidents and actors and they I love you, Sparky, and that's not realized. His name was Sparking. Everybody calls him Sparker. Everybody, Frank Sinatra, like every all this stuff. I was so eager to meet my my idol. I sent him an original jump Star from my first month of syndication. His office was spartan, famously spartan. He had a desk to draw on a tabled, right letters on a bookcase. He was a gracious reader, and the sofa and my my jump start was the only thing hanging up on the wall of his office. Because I walking, I thought I was seeing things. I said, Um, I said, I get it. Your friend told I thought I was coming, and you framed that. That's very nice. Let's say I get it, man, that's very very I've very touched it. He said, what do you what do you mean? I said, you knew I was coming, so you put the put the thing you put the thing. No, he said, No, your work is great, man, You said, Jumpstart has with Peanuts, has great characters. You can do this comic strip for the rest of your life, he said. But just just remember one thing. Don't let the synthicate, you know, the people who distribute my word. Don't let the synthicate ever tell you what to do. Don't pay any attention to them. The whole office filled filled with non talented people still entertainment to Josh, yeah, it's like the wildest thing about this whole story is just the idea of Charles Schultz talk as ship so like in the office and he's like closed the door behind you, listen, don't let anybody's son you all right, like just like like you. You always imagine him as like talking the way Charlie Brown talks. He's like, nobody knows what they do when you hold your I p okay totally, Josh, I'm not kidding. It's extremely important that the creative person have utter trust in the town that they've been given, because everybody has not been given town. So hey, by the way, Roy, I just want to tell you, probably myself, I would tell you this when when I saw you do is Boston racist. I just thought, like this might be like this ship going to time capsule. It's so good, it's so good. Thank you. You didn't jump on anybody's kid. She never called anybody anything. You just letting them dig themselves into a hole they could not get out of. Just tell me what you think. That's it, that's it. Surely the people of Boston must be feeling all that structural racism. To find out, I went to one of the city's most beloved cathedrals. Fin Way, part I don't see that racism myself, honestly, No, I don't think Boston's racist city. I think that we've got a lot of like attention with with our sports being in the media. So Boston's racist reputation is a conspiracy formed by people who hate Boston sports teams for winning all the damn time. Yes, they love to hate us. Yeah, I don't think if Boston is a racist city at all. So how do you know? I don't feel it. You know, it's just a gut feel. I don't feel like it's racist. I've just never encountered it. I said, oh my god, this guy is an assassin, like with it. Look, you have this pleasant face and everything, and I'm like, he's just taking it to him. Oh well, what you all are able to do, you know, as cartoonists is so beautiful because you have the gift of disarming people. No one reads comic strips with their guard up. You watched The Daily Show in a different sense, so it's like it's hard to explain, but there's always a way to sneak in that knowledge, you know, after the break there's a little fact about Franklin that I didn't know until we was doing the prep for this. And also, Josh, I want to talk to you about some of your favorite um black cartoon characters that maybe inspired you and put you in a different place and made you think, oh, yes, it's okay to be black in this world. I have, I have to I got a white one too, but I definitely got a black one. I got a black one. Now that I'm older, I'm not even sure if he was written by black people. It's beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. I'm gonna be honest. Let me, let me show you what representation can do. Rob. I also used to think that Pigpen was black because he was so dirty, and I just always thought and then not only did I think it was dirt the way they represented pig Pen, I thought it was must because I never associated black people with being dirty. But your aunts and your aunt ties always tell you, boy, you smell out, you smell like outside, y'all need to put some gilder or no, y'all kids stank. I was just like, oh damn, maybe some funky kids I just need to. Like Pigpen just reminded me I need to always take a bath and be fresh. But there was something interesting and Josh, I don't know if you knew this either. Uh well, first off, Josh, did you know that Franklin has a last name? Um? So I didn't know Franklin had last name until more recently. But also, just real quick off of your Pigpen thing, I think that by the time I was growing up, I had there were more black cartoon characters, so I never thought pig Pen was black, but as far as representation goes, he did fully represent poor whites like like like that. For me, when I saw a pig pit, I was like, I know a kid like that. I know that he that he struggling, you know what I mean, And like nobody and we all act like it's not happening. But it's like he shows up. He's got weirder stories than everybody. We're all eleven and he's smoking. It's like that's Pigpen, Like, how could it not be? He had no last name either. By the way, Pigpen has no last name. Schroeder has no last name, and Franklin had no last name for a long time. But now Franklin's last name. I found out it's Armstrong, Rob Armstrong. Is there any relation? Is he named after you? Did happen? Well, I was in my office, uh my cap, my studio working, and the phone rings and spark. He's on the phone. He says, listen, I'm not gonna keep you on the phone. I just want you to um help me out with something. You ever, I wonder why Franklin's got the last name. I said, Uh, well, I thought Franklin might be his last name. Sometimes, no person that's their last He says, no, no, no, I'm doing a video. It's going to go strate. The DVD called him You're in the super Bowl, Charlie Brown. And in that video, here's a p a announcer and he announces the kid's first name and last name, and then they running out and they kick a football and throw football or whatever, and Charlie Brown runs out, and Linus van Pelt runs out, and Lucy dam Pelt runs out. But in the script you can see that when Franklin is called, there's that space in there. Let's say kid An now success and now Franklin, and there's a kind of a we awkward like to go, you know, kind of He said, that's not that's not cool, right. How would you feel if the p announcer says, and now Franklin arm Strong runs down? How would you feel about that? I said, uh, well, you're not thinking about putting my name in your video. He said, no, no, no, I'm thinking about changing his name to your name from now on. There are a few hard to believe moments in my life, and I already talked about one. That's the other one. The other one's are awful things, great, Josh. This is this is basically like if you went over to Eddie Murphy's house and then Eddie Murphy was like, I'm thinking of changing my last name to Johnson. I'm Eddie Johnson. Theyby always have to wonder, it's like, should I quit now then like should I like, should I stop because I've done it everything? Yeah, this is the wild. I mean first it was the it was the advice with it, like, hey, don't let those sun do you make sure that like honestly that like that story is already like perfect and amazing, and in say, but apart me wishes that he went further, like he he just put a pistol all the desk. It was like, I remember to keep that fag on you, like just like Paul Schultz is actually like at it's safe, thug and nobody do. He's like about my bunny, about my time, Josh, what were your favorite did you have? Because I think what Rob is presented to me is it's made me reflect this. So I've been sitting here thinking the whole time and even telling me stories and I'm like, well, damn, did any black character do that to me? Did any black character make me feel? And I got and I got to have two from my child. I want to hear yours first, So there any black characters don't have to be common strip. Let's just go full television animation as well. Okay. I love the Proud family growing up and so a lot of characters on Proud Family, like Sugar Baba, everybody. I felt bad for the dad, Like, like, honestly, the dad in Proud Family, they gave it to him too hard because he's catching it from all angles. Like even as a kid, I was watching a Proud Family and I was like, this is why Dad's don't stay. This is like he got look at what he has to deal with. He got Sugar Baba, he got his wife, he got the kids, he got other kids coming over, these weird kids coming over. It's like, why would you sign up for this life? Uh? The other one I loved um Black Panther. I'm not gonna lie. A part of me and this is like, you know, like when you're a teenager and you're like real like I don't know if I can speak for the two of you, but sometimes in your teagers you're already rebellious. So then you get a little militant, like you get a little like oh oh, and then you start learning like American history, you get mad at everything. A part of me was like like, I know that the story story we saw in Black Panther was written from Black Panther, but a part of me was like full kill Monger, Like I was like, man kill Monger just right, all right, So how about how about we blow up everything? Like I think that, yeah, because I'm like reading compos as a teenager, which is already niche. And then and then I'm coming across characters who were supposed to be crazy, but that I'm like, they might just be correct, you know, because also when you're a black kid, you have to make characters black subtimes. So like when you're a black kid, any character that doesn't have peach or pink skin is black. So Piccolo from Dragon ball Z black fanos black, like like everybody that is not white is black. And a black kid's vibe where they're coming up reading comics, he's just nailed one of my people that I was about to name. Oh, Panther from the ThunderCats. Yeah, he's blue. That was my dog because he was like the leader. He was very wise, and you know, he was always fixing ship. You know, Panthro was always the repair man of all the ThunderCats. Pan had those shoulders too. Yeah, it's just deep vote line. Oh, you shouldn't be doing that, like a like a living ancestor. It's the code of the ThunderCats. That it's a stupid code. No, the code that served us well for centuries. And the other one was Roadblock from G I Joe. But now that I'm older and I looked back at it, they was always kind of making him rhyme when he talked, and ship it was it was it was almost jive full of good eat. Huh, what's it to you, Jack, I'm hungry, I'm a gourmet chef. And the name's not Jacket's Roadblock. I'm with G I Joe. It wasn't quite but it was close to job. And I'm like, I don't know if this was the right thing to influence me. Surprisingly though, growing up like and this is me not trying to start any comic beef. For whatever reason, fat Albert did not connect with me. And I don't know if it was the music, like I'm not a dancer, Like, I don't know what it was. But like my my older cousins, they loved it. Fat Albert was was their thing. I don't know, if you know. I'm forty two, so I graduated high school ninety six, so by the time I caught Fat Albert, it was kind of on the back end of it, and maybe even syndication here and there. So I don't know if it was because the music wasn't over my error or what, but that was the one I just I could never like I would watch What's Happened, like I would watch all the black Live sitcoms, But when Fat Albert came on, I was like, I was trying to go outside. What a what an attack? First of all, that wasn't an attack. No, no, no, no, I'm just saying, think about if you're like, if the creator is listening, that's so funny because it's like you're already a kid. It's a car toon and when their cartoon comes all you're like, I think I need some exercise. I loved the Fat Aubret, you guys, I was real into fat out. I was so into fat Altbut I painted a giant mural my first time painting a mural in my bedroom. It was it was, you know, it was five and a half whatever I could reach. It was five and halfy tall, big fat belly. I loved fat Alburt. It's uh, it's so awful, like the legacy of fat Aburat so tarnage. I was, yeah, I was, I'm a Philly dude. That cartoon was set in Philadelphia. Kazi was a Philly I mean he still is still was a Philly dude. Yeah, legendary, you know. Cartoon. It was just I don't know. They started dancing Josh and I was like, oh know how to dance? Girls don't like me. Where's my baseball? But I'm just saying, okay. My only perspective that I'm coming from it is like, since it's a cartoon that you're a kid, It's like, let's let's pretend for a second, foul Albert was a serial or a candy and then somebody put it from you or you were like, you know what, I should eat my vegetables. It's like it's the complete opposite of how kids are supposed to respond to those things. And so that's why it's killing me that you watched it and you even saw what you saw the theme song and you were like, um, let me do some calisthetics, just like big words for a little kid too. Just I think I need some pull ups in my life or something. We'll be come back, Rob. I want to talk to you about the inspiration that you try to put into your characters in the way that you try to influence. Well, you know, the better question is how much of it is overt versus covert influencing? Uh in the content that you create with jump starting, and we're gonna talk a little bit about the book. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. We have been talking about black cartoon characters and Franklin, who was the first black? Do we know? What? Do we even? Was Franklin from the West side of the South. Did Charles Schultz rob did he get that beat into Franklin's backstory? Two parent homes, single parent home, and Peanuts. They all come from a kind of murky parent home. But Franklin, unlike the other characters, talks about his grandfather. He quotes his grandfather a lot. Franklin said to Charlie Brown, my grandfather fought um Fort in Vietnam, so you know he went away for a long time. And Charlie brownson, my dad, my grand My dad's a barber. He fought in the war. But I don't know what you want. Has no idea, No, he has no idea. Parents go to father like that's major, not enough. So Harrods are Harrison, your parents are parents, and Peanuts they're like you know whin want Want Want why you know I like how Yeah, Charlie has a has a conversation with Franklin's like, listen, I have an agreement at my house. I don't talk to them and they don't talk to me. Okay, we eat at the same time and we stay out of each other's business. All right, So rob, let's talk a little bit about Jump Start, and let's talk about the book. What's interesting about Jump Start to me is the level in which you choose intentionally at times to bathe the characters and positivity and humor and positivity. You're not using what was me or home drum or you know, like as to use peanuts as an analogy snatching the football away from someone and you know, and denying the character of the reward like you had you had a strip with the kids just want to spend time with dad. Dad just got home and Dad is like, get off me. I just need to breathe. It's just the kids waiting to hug their father, and like, like, like, what are the storylines that you're trying to draw to with jump Star, because it really does leave you feeling good and better about the world more often than not, it's a subversive attempt to address a very hot topic in the black community, rather than tell people, Um, I'm not this, you're that's a misperception. That's a misconception, that's racist, that stereotypes, sort of telling them that Jump Starts sneaks in a different door with a lot of things to refute that Joe is um desperate to spend time with his kids and goes out of his way to be entertaining. He's got a ritual with his twins with the sock po bit called the sock Ness Monster in the bathtub and all that. He's just one of these dads that would spend all his free time with his kids if he could. Was his wife and his kids. He's desperately in love with his wife. Marcy is his girl. You know, Joe doesn't have a fling affairs and all this. He doesn't look at. Oh many a great special edition series, though the Jump Start Side Chick run like a special Tinna. Don't let me tell you what to do, but you know, keep talking. I was warned a long time ago someone suggests to you to have one of your characters run off with that girl from the office. Don't don't don't listen to him. Roy. I will take it under advice, and take everything under advisement. I never say never, but I wanna. You, guys, here's the thing. People think I came up like that like my characters. People think I have a nuclear family that I was raised with a mom and a dad and all that. Or have a lot of brothers like Marcy's got twelve stepbrothers one place in NFL. The huge to our giants, you know, one is eighth, he tall, He teaches kindergarten, He wants a pastor, and wants a fireman, and all of that is made up for the sake of presenting something other than what people are expecting to see. I'm just trying to stun the reader sometimes and have them think, wow, that's I never saw that. You never saw that coming. And I want to do it in a way that it's charming. I want to make people think twice before being big at it. Calling people racist is tricky. Racism isn't what people might think it is. Racism is awful. It's someone deliberately holding you back, impeding your progress, hurting you politically, coming up with bullshit to arrest you with to stick on you, and like bigger triato is is more pervasive, kind of a narrow mindedness that affects us. That's almost everyone. And I want my black reader also to rejump start and feel like they're seeing something new that they've never seen before. It's not like the Cosby Show. It's not like that Joe was an actual cop. Like Joe has been shot, like he has been shot by joy riders, black kids in the car, all that. Like he's just out there doing police work, you know what I mean. So when all this police stuff happened and cops got vilified, Joe didn't get vilified. My my profile was elevated during BLM like cops shows were taken off television, and my profile went boom because I do a character driven work, not a circumstance driven work, not a not a I'm not going to comment on the newspaper today. These are people to my readers. They seem to be going through life love and disappointment, and they seem to be redemptive. They just loving each other and it was around them no matter what, and that can help influence a lot of social good. Josh, what is it about stand up? Or maybe you disagree with me on this, But Rob makes a good case for the repetitive nuance of humanizing characters, thus eventually influencing your views. Right, comedy we don't have that luxury In most instances. You have an hour in any market on TV, you have an hour. Do you think comedy can be an influence for social good or because the nature of our performance genre, we don't get the luxury of that nuance all the time. I think, I think you just have to make sure that that's how you come off. I think that when when it's you as an individual, you become something more than just checking boxes. When when you speak and if people get to know you, I mean one of the things that comes with its fame. I think that with a certain amount of fame, people are are seen as more than just this person who thinks this thing, and people give them a little bit more of an opportunity to express a nuanced point. But I think that it's there, but it's just it's very tough for it to be that that's same, not just because they are two different mediums, but I think that with stand up it is like easier to twist someone's words or to like willfully misinterpret what they're trying to say, um, And I think it comes with a body of work and just a public persona that's like lay it out over years to give people the time of day. Yeah, Rob, tell us about the book, tell us what the book is and where people can find the book. Brother, So, uh, my newest book. It's called on a Roll, And I'm so like, it's just an honor, honestly because this is the only thirty year treasury by black cartoonists in history. It's the first one like it. You know, you see Calvin and Hobbs books in the far Side books. This is all jumps thought, brother, And it's got more than just comic strips in it. It's got it's got paintings I've done, it's got it is a that's my death, that's this death right, and it's got five hundred strips like I felt, were my best work, my best best representation of how thirty years have gone. And I know you'll like it. I know you're like anyone can read a collection. I think you just gave me you know what will be you know, little activity for me in the five year old. He's getting decent with the reading. He is interested in humor. I try not to encourage it, but I will expose him to anything he shows interesting. So instead of having him laugh at Garfield and then he'll grow up, just wanted to eat lazagna all the time, respectfully. Jim Davis, no disrespect to Garfield, Garfield all right with Garfield, Garfield and friends every Saturday morning in the nineties. That was my ship. Uh so we done. What would be wild is if Jim Davis was a thug too. So it's like they both have like a low key thing that nobody knew about. Like and like Jim Davis, stay ready, he'd be listening for anybody that breaks him up. Ruling is why Charles Schultz put the gut all the desk. I was like, keep that thing. Are you all right? You never know? You never know? Well, thank you so much, uh, Rob, the book is on a roll, a jump start treasury, Rob Armstrong, thank you so much for coming beyond the scenes with us. Josh Johnson as always, Thank you, get sir. Are you you back out on the road. I guess not. We're back in studio, So that's gotta work now. Yeah, if you're asking about dates that have to promote your your correct. I do not have that that Betty. Right now, I've all the road with Trevor, so whatever his dates are, you can see me open up for him. And that's about it. Within you straight then, thank you so much, Rob, thank you so much. Josh. That's all the time we have for today. I wish we had more time, man, this is this is history. I would because you know the next story from you about Charles Schultz was gonna be about his private lear. Jenny probably owned three planets, all that off that peanuts money. Look, hopefully we've taken you beyond the scenes. Let's see you next week. Are you enjoying yourself? Well, if you are, you can do the podcast things lik him and subscribing and leave a nice little comments where you say how smooth my voice is. Make sure you add that in the with you smooth voice