Desi Lydic Foxsplains

Published May 16, 2023, 7:01 AM

In light of Fox settling with Dominion, we take a look back at an episode about Fox News and disinformation. Host Roy Wood Jr., correspondent Desi Lydic, and senior producer Matt Negrin discuss the digital series Desi Lydic Foxsplains, and how right-wing news outlets spread misinformation. They’re joined by CNN’s senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy, who breaks down why Fox News is so successful in pushing its dangerous narratives. 


Watch the original segments:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeskMkEaHJYdOXvRtkfk74voH5F_hstsv

Hey, it's Roy Wood Junior. Beyond the Scenes is taking a break this week, so we're taking a minute to revisit one of our favorite episodes about what it means to Fox Splain. In this episode, I sit down with Daily Show Correspondent Desi Lightick, senior producer Matt Nagrin, and cing in senior media reporter Oliver Darcy. We discussed the viral digital series Desi Lightik, Fox Splains, the rapid spread of misinformation and right wing media, and we break down why Fox News and other outlets are so successful at pushing misleading and conspiratorial narratives. Have a listen, welcome back to Beyond. That's not the name of the show.

What are we telling again?

I said, welcome back?

Like, what did we just do a segment?

You know what, Let's just keep that, Let's keep rolling. Then, damn it. Welcome to Beyond the Scene. I'm Roywood Junior. That's Daily Show Correspondent Desi Lighted and Senior Digital Expansion Emmy winning the nominated producer Matt Hagrin.

Just go ahead and edit the title as you reach me.

Yeah, we are talking this week about a beautiful, beautiful segment that our digital team. It started as a digital segment and eventually expanded to the actual linear broadcast. It's called Fox Plains. Now a little bit later in the show, we're going to be joined by a senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy from CNN. But first, let's roll the clip.

I've been watching Fox News for one hundred and fifty three hours straight, so I can give you the lowdown on what's already considered to be the most corrupt presidency in the history of the United States. If you thought Obama wearing that tan suit was disgraceful, and Jesus knows I did, where do you get a load of this? Let's take stock of Joe Biden's Americ Doctor Seuss illegal, doctor Fauci, promoted doctor Schulz, so company, Doctor Quinn Medicine Women hasn't been on TV since nineteen ninety eight. Is this the country we want to leave to our strange children to.

Talk about what it means to Foxplain Deisi. Matt, welcome to beyond the scenes. Matt. I'll start with you first, because I would say of everybody in our building, and I've tried to explain the way the daily show works to people as this behive of people that all have different interests and responsibilities. You are the guy in the building that watches all the news.

That's horrible thing.

It's not even your department. It's not even your department, not even my job, but you watch it all. You watch Fox, MSNBC, CNN. I'm pretty sure you watch Black News Channel at this point. You watch Cheddar? Is that the one Cheddar?

Millennials Web only a lot of Scheddar, a lot of Pluto TV, a lot of Christian Broadcast Network. There there is pack still on PAX is there? Yeah, we got packs. Also, there's a there's a really nice New Mexico correspondent I dig so I kind of I got a little hook of the IT guy gave me a VPN that I can watch New Mexico local news whenever I need to. Yeah, all that stuff straightened my eyeballs.

That is true. He watches more than anybody at the show, hands down.

So where did this idea come from? That? Uh, in any way suggesting that it was your idea?

No, the we started doing these Fox Blains things with Michael Costa, another correspondent, and then one day he was unavailable and we were like, oh, DESI can do it, and DESI has done it ever since.

It's like the alternate who was just like waiting for my chance to get it. I was just sitting on the bench waiting for someone to get sick or underperform, like have another gig. Tom Brady gets salivating.

Tom Brady is Tom Brady because Drew Blitze got hurt during a game.

So never forget DESI is our Tom Brady. Okay, I don't know how much this metaphor is gonna hold up.

Guys.

I am nodding, like I know what you're talking about, but I am not a sports person.

Our producer who runs Ramin, who runs the expansion department says that as he taking over from Foxplanes was the best scheduling conflict of all time, So I think I agree it worked out great. The idea of it, if that's what you were actually asking, was that we felt that like Fox was getting crazier and crazier, like not only just in the election, but also after the election, Like, come on, this stuff about it wasn't It was beyond hydroxy chloro queen. It was beyond like covid is fake. It was like going into the craziest darkest places. I remember there was one day when during the election they were talking Fox News was talking about Joe Biden and Ukraine and like the Barisma thing, and they were like, what about John Carrey's nephew, what about Whitey Bulger's cousin? And I was like, is this real or not? And so we made a list of things like that that were like Malia Obama's Spotify playlist, like things like that that would make no sense at all, Eric Holder's Venmo account, whatever, And we were like, oh, this, we should just put this in a list and have someone just be like, this is the problem.

What about Bill Clinton's g chat history, Chelsea Clinton's iPod Acorn diamonds. They're all in on it, Biden Clinton, the Steele dossier Australia of course, what about Eric Holder's Hulu password, Malia Obama's Venmo history, Oh.

Hey, jay Z visitor logs, fake birds.

And then that generally expanded to larger sentences. And then when we did this with Desi, it was like, We're just gonna pretend Dezie's been watching Fox News for six days straight and is now explaining to you what is on Fox, Because let's be honest, nice. Our audience is not watching Fox for good reason, the number one reasons, like they care about their mental health and it will probably destroy you if you do.

DESI who is this character that you played? And I think that's the thing that well, well, I have two questions. But first to you, who is this character that you're presenting. Who is this news viewer that you believe watches Fox for six six days straight?

Well, I kind of, I guess I look at it like it's my own correspondent character having been subjected to a deeply unhealthy amount of Fox News binge watching. Basically, we started it somewhere around like I've been been binge watching Fox News for seventy two hours, and then I think it became seven days straight with no bathroom breaks and has like escalated ever since. And I, you know, I love that because when I first auditioned for The Daily Show. I know we've traded stories on our audition pieces before, but my original you know, you write a piece and you perform that piece for the audition, and the piece that I wrote at the time, and this was back in twenty fifteen, was a version of like a hybrid of Megan Kelly and Gretchen Carlson and all of the Fox News blondes that I was watching at the time, Right, yeah, I know that did not age. Well, it's Desi Dasi leidik Okay Care expands on that. Well, I'm a Stanford graduate, i have multiple degrees, I speak nine different languages, one fourteen different beauty pageants. I'm a proficient puppeteer as Celiac survivor.

No, no, I meant to expand on your view.

Oh no, no, it's self evident. At that time, I kind of was like, I thought that that was going to be my lane. And then very quickly after we started in twenty fifteen and Trump came to the front of all of this, and then he became the nominee and then the president, we really quickly realized like, oh, there's a bigger beast here in the picture, and we have other things to be talking about. So I'm grateful that I was necessarily cornered into that specific character. But ever since then, we were kind of looking for a way to embody the madness and the mania without completely betraying our correspondent characters. And this felt like a really cool container to put that in because it is a feeling, right when you watch Fox News.

Oh, it's a feeling, all right, It's one very specific feeling.

Yeah.

I like the segment because it's it's kind of dozy to me, Matt. Seems like what would happen if you followed every bread crumb and you said yes to every possible thing that was ever suggested or presented, and you somehow start connecting all of these nonsensical dots, Like in a way, it's the it's the Randy Quaid character and Independence Day, who's trying to explain the alien that comment? Like, considering that it's a digital segment, and I think this is the part that's really cool about it because when we were in unpressed at times and these uncertain times, yes, back when The Daily Show first was wading into those unprecedented times, we were doing you know, we already do a lot of digital content on the show. But talk to me a little bit, Matt about like, what are the different creative freedoms that you have, because in digital we don't have the constraints of time, nor do we necessarily have to follow a narrative that ties into something that Trevor is talking about on that particular night.

And also the way that I mean this makes me a little bit sad because I think quarantine has or working from home I should say, has taken a lot of the energy out of that feeling of like I need to run down to like Desi and Roy's office and be like, can we do something real quick on this on my phone right now?

Okay? So then to that point, Matt, you're running all over the building, but then you can't because COVID forty three is finally here. How did that change how you all produce these types of segments At first?

I think when we were all kind of like, oh, we got to do stuff from home, a lot of people are like, oh, this is gonna be weird, And Fox Plains was one of the things where we were like, this is actually perfect because part of like part of being on this expansion team kind of like a digital team with a little bit more, is that we are able to do things in a truly different way. That is it sounds like corporate to be like digital first, but like at the time, TikTok was getting really popular and we were seeing like a lot of things on Instagram and even on Twitter that were like people holding up their phones and just kind of recording themselves and being like, I got to get this off my chest. So for me that was like really for our whole team, it was like, let's do that sort of stuff. And Fox plaines became DESI has to grab her phone and start talking immediately about what she just heard Janine Piro say to Sean Hannity, because this is out of this world. I remember there was one night, I think it was before as you might remember this, I think it was before a debate, and it was this like there was this conspiracy theory about how Joe Biden at an ear piece he was getting transmitted. There was like a this was a Fox News, this conspiracy sperience. Yes, he was getting the answers fed the answers right, because everyone knows that's exactly what that's what you need to get the edge in a presdential debate. And like Sean Hannity or someone someone was like pushing this on Fox News. The Trump campaign was pushing it. Brett Behar was even like, yeah, that's a really interesting thing. And so like I remember, I grabbed my phone and I filmed myself doing like a Fox Blaine's like proof of concept, and I was like, this is like, is anyone talking about the earpiece? And I like I remember getting down on it on my knee and I was like, it's coming from Colin Kaepernick kneeling raising his fist to transmit the signal, and then like sent that over to Desi, and like DESI just like did it and like did her own thing and like sent that back and like we probably did it in an hour, which was like awesome for we don't need you know, we did. We didn't need to be in the studio, we didn't need to have all this like preparation that went into it. Was just like this is like happening right now. Let's get it out before the and we did. Joe Biden is wearing an ear piece.

How can you tell? Because one ear is bigger than the other. The ear piece is making it bigger.

That's why he wears the mask to cover it up.

It's a cover up. Where's the earpiece getting the transmission.

From Colin Kaepernick. He's on his knee with his.

Fist up to transmit the signal to me.

That was kind of the benefit of working from home and embracing that sort of phone culture which has like just shoved all of this, like people screaming and yelling into our faces, and instead of returning to a more civilized discourse, we were like, let's make it louder and embrace it.

Yeah.

I think it's one of those segments like Roy, we've had to adapt to shooting from home, and so many of the pieces you feel like, oh, I'm missing something because I'm not out in the world, or we don't have a professional cinematographer to get dynamic shots, and you feel like you kind of miss a little something. But this one, in particular, almost feels like the messiness of the camera work and getting a little too close sometimes and getting all hopped up actually works to feed the emotion of it, because it's like I had to get this off my chest. I don't have enough time to get into a professional studio and share this. I've got to grab my phone right now.

So do you remember there was one we were doing. I don't remember which one it was, but like you got really into the like getting close to the camera and you were like, should do one that's closer, should do one that's closer. Like it basically got you like your lips are like right up on the camera and you were like, how many cuomos are there or whatever. It's like, but it's like all you can see is her face, and it's like, yeah, no, I've watched like internet videos of people and like that's kind of what it is.

So yeah, yeah, my our poor viewers have have gotten way too close into my mouth. They probably no more information than my own dentist about the health of my teef. I apologize for that.

Who was the one that said Major League MLB is just bling back?

Yeah? Yeah, Eric, So like, yeah, we did a Fox planes with Desi where she said this is when Major League Baseball took the All Star Game away from Georgia because of their voter suppression law, and Desi's line was, if you think about it, MLB is just BLM backwards.

I know three things. One conservatives are pro business, Two conservatives are pro freedom of speech, and three conservatives need to destroy these businesses for opening theirmals. You thought Major Biden was bad for this country, major League Baseball moved the All Star Game out of Atlanta. MLB is just BLM backwards.

And like a week later, we were watching Eric Bowling, who technically is a Fox emeritus okay for the fact checkers out there, for the Daniel Dale's out there, for the Glenn Kessler's out there, But he did used to work at Fox and now he's like at Newsmax. So he said, when you think about it, MLB is really BLM backwards.

MLB is backwards for BLM.

And we were like, did we do this or so? Or are we so in the mind of these psychos that they made the connection that we thought was dumb, and they were like, this is genius.

Do you Is there a joke that you think is too ridiculous now, DESI where you look at it and you just go, no, that that's that's a good.

One, Like that was one of them. At the time, I was like, oh, this is insane, and then come to find out he said it, so yeah, I guess not. I mean I think that's like That's what I love so much about this segment is it really is about embodying a feeling of just like woman on the verge running on pure adrenaline, conspiracy theory and like, uh, you know it's maybe a little bit of hypermectin. Uh and then yeah, and then and then sprinkling in those little personal anecdotes like I've been kicked out of Whole Foods more times than any black person that I know, or like, uh, you know, my husband's left me, or my children won't talk to me. How can America be racist if it was the liberals who fired a hard working black woman from her job as a syrup bottle. This is the country of African American legends, Martin Luther King, Junior Rosa Park Nacklemore. If our country is racist, how do you explain that I have been kicked out of whod food more than any black.

Person ever has.

I feel like we did work in a narrative that was like slowly every episode another member of Desi's family leaves, and this episode's very clear, this one's driven royal family only.

Yeah, she got problems, do you?

And Here's the thing that I think a lot of the correspondent to deal with from time to time on the show is the real world interactions with people after you've done a particular piece, like I've done CP time enough to where older black women will come thank you baby for doing this. Yeah, the people A lot of people didn't know about that black person. That's the hidden history. Do you get more? I'm trying to think of a polite way to ask you. Is it daily show fans who get it, or do you run into more Fox fans who don't and think you're on the team, so to speak.

I will I will say with I will say with this one in particular, it's it's hard to tell because this came about during the pandemic. So I have not left my house because the show keeps making me binge watch Fox News and we've been on lockdown.

No.

But I think that this is this is one that most of the feedback has been people who have watched enough Fox News to know that it's not for them, and they appreciate that we captured something that it feels like Fox sort of runs on. And I will also say that I have family members that are avid Fox News watchers and it's the one segment that they have not brought up to me.

They were like, she's getting too close to the secret. We can't engage.

With her, yo. That is we need to We need to do a separate beyond the scenes and just correspondence interactions with their family members.

Oh yeah, yeah, just a family reunions.

It would be great if the people in your family who do watch Fox end up talking to you, like at Thanksgiving or whatever, and they're like, by the way, have you heard that MLB is just bling backwards? And you're like, I did that.

After the break, we're gonna get a much more qualified journalists in here. We're going to speak with Oliver Darcy from CNN. This is beyond the scenes. I'm excited now to bring on a guest who actually does this in a more professional capacity. No disrespect to you, Dessi, whatsoever. Oliver Darcy, he covers politics. He is a senior media reporter for CNN and the program that he does now know reliable sources where they really take a deeper look into what's going on with a lot of these same channels that Matt that you and DESI watch for research. Oliver, welcome to be on the scenes.

Thank you.

Now you regularly as a professional journalist. Can I call you that? I know a lot of people try to dodge that title. Now now that you're not scared, you're not scared to be proud and open journalists and these challenging timessts Okay, you all cover a lot of the misinformation and conspiracy theories that bounce around out there. When did that turn Well, you know what, let's let's go back in history with you first, when you used to work with Glenn Beck over at the Blaze, where you kind of swam in those waters professionally, and then eventually you got over to seeing in and then you were now the guy who takes a look back at that same environment. How did you when did you decide to make the transition? What was it exactly that was happening in the world or with you personally?

I think I started off there.

You know, I was always conservative growing up, and so when I was out of college, you know, working for Glenn Beeck's conservative news site was sort of a was a cool thing, and I was sold the promise that they're going to do conservative news, but like do good conservative news, you know, like there are a lot of strong liberal websites out there, you know, Huffington Post is a good example of this, but they do solid news. Unfortunately, I think a few years into that, I realized maybe that's not exactly what they really wanted to do, and so I made a jump over to a business insider. Now I'm at CNN, But it has given me an interesting perspective because I am very familiar with a lot of the key players in the conservative news media. I know a lot of them still I talk to them, and it's allowed me, I think, to really succeed on this beat.

When you see something like you know, Desi of course is playing a character. Yeah, but when you see people in the real world out there, you know, I won't say quite tenfoil hat with it with their beliefs. But when you see people you know, basically going yeah, the vaccine and lizard people and you know, Hillaries emails and Joe Biden's son sold me crack last night. Like when you when you see that type of stuff, what does it make you feel with regards to what conservative media has become.

Well, Desi's segments are very funny until you realize that there are so many people who actually have those views and have have been told these things and believe them. And so I think it's you know, it's incredibly alarming, and I don't I don't know how we actually solve this problem because there are these incentives from whether it's Facebook, social media or just you know, Fox News or talk radio or whatever it is, there are these incentives to put these things out there. To mislead other people to give them what they want. The field good content, the red meat that really fires up the base. And I'm not really sure how we get out of it. So when I see people on television, you know, I was watching Jordan Clapper, for instance, went to that New York City anti vaccine rally recently.

It's funny because and I said, no, no, thank you.

He's funny, But like, it is incredibly disturbing because these people have been sold to bill of goods from these dishonest actors who you know, in many cases might not even believe this stuff that they're actually selling. You know, we know, for instance, that in the Fox control room as they're producing these anti masks segments now they're all wearing masks right the New York Post as they put out these anti mask things and say you guys should repeal your mask mandates. They're required to wear masks at the office. And so when you know these things, it is frustrating as hell.

Oliver. You can probably even connect A to B on some of these things, because on Fox they talk about, like, do we really think the vaccine is safe? It might give you fertility problems six months down the road who knows and then the people in the Klepper segment are saying the exact same things, so you know where they're getting this, and it's there's no longer this like hypothetical that's like is it bad that Fox is doing this or is it just kind of fun? It's like no, it's actually horrible. These people are absorbing it and repeating it out immediately. From your perspective, that must be like, yeah, this is the most obvious thing to see.

It's actually really frustrating too. When we talk about like misinformation or people with vaccine hesidency. Every story almost that talks about vaccine hesitancy should mention Fox News. Right, It's like a very clear thing that's going on. It's not rocket science to make these connections. Yeah, but like there are so many people who who just don't want to I guess maybe they viewed Fox as a I don't know what it is, but they just don't want to go there.

And you don't hear that.

And actually, Facebook, you know, they get a lot of you know, they get a lot.

Of blowback and they should get a lot of criticism.

But you can at least make the argument that Facebook is doing something to kind of clean up their their platform, whereas Fox is like intentionally profiting off of anti vaccine rhetoric right, Like, they are doing some really really terrible things to society, and and they actually end up getting.

A pass a lot of the time. It's it's really strange.

I agree that, Yeah, DESI when when Oliver is talking about, you know, like the people that Klipper are talking to, who are obviously drinking the kool aid that's being served up at these right wing spots, is there a smidge of sympathy for people who have bought this horse, the people that you parody. Is there any sympathy in that or is it just this what they believe and we just got to get the jokes.

No, I think I have a lot of empathy for people who are getting all of their information from this one source that is peddling lies and untruths, and people believe everything that they say. And in my opinion, one of the scariest things about Fox News is that they have a way of making you feel like it is the only reliable source of information and you cannot trust anywhere else. And that's that's scary. I mean, I Oliver, you can speak to this better, but like that CNN.

Does it too. CNN. They even hired James Earl Jones to make it feel like it's your father.

Is CNN.

I'll beat your ass if I get you listening to another network. It's always a Every news network is a deep voice, guy Oliver, where do you think this politically? I'll tell you where I think and you tell me you from right or wrong? The politicization of the news and like this debate culture to me in Nayrid, I know you watched this show too. I think it all goes back to debate culture on ESPN, like mid to late nineties, where I feel like, if I'm not mistaken, I feel like sports kind of did. I mean there was there was crossfire and Tucker calls and whatnot, but James Carville. But I really feel like this this era where an opinion is ratings, but somewhere along the way, we the viewer mistake opinions for facts and research.

Well, I think you need to separate, for one, opinions with propaganda, right like we know, Like I think I think it's fine if Fox wants to have the conservative you know, a person who's you know, giving their their opinion on the news and it's based in fact. I think that's that's totally fine. That's that's part of the healthy political system. You know, you're the conservative, maybe here the liberal. You hear someone else and you make up your mind. The issue here is that they're not doing that right. They're just inventing things out of thin air that support their guy. Like it's it's a sustained propaganda effort on behalf of these people to keep.

Them watching this channel. And so I think that that's the issue. They're not playing by any facts or any rules. They're just out there and it's really, you know, a truth versus fiction sort of thing. So I think maybe the cable news culture may have been born out of ESPN out you know, cable news was around long before you know, I started covering it. But the new phenomenon where Fox is just totally detached from reality, I think I'm not really sure where that comes from. Maybe Matt has some ideas, but it's new. That's that's new within the last I think even five years.

Yeah, I definitely think the complete one hundred false propaganda stuff came right at the end of like the second half of the Trump campaign. Basically after he got the nomination and then it became like, oh, none of these allegations about him as sexual assaulting women are true. Obviously that's not true. This man is perfect. And once you across that line, it's like cool, everything is everything that's true is now false. It's surreal to see it like become I know that I can turn on Fox at any point between seven and ten PM and I won't hear something true. And that's absolutely crazy because even six years ago you could turn it on and hear something that was like bad, but you weren't guaranteed to get something that wasn't true. On the cable news culture thing. I know, this is like you know this is part of your home too, but like there's a lot of this element I think what Rory was talking about with like going back and forth, like a sports show. You know, NBC has Meet the Press, they have these panels that's like Rich Lowry is on there, Like that's not great. ABC has Sarah Izger and Chris Christy, that's not great. Like CNN hired Kaylee mcananey though, like these people were were not good people, but they were allowed they were getting paid to essentially say things that were not true, and I'm not I don't want to put I'm not putting on the spot by saying, ah, it is bad that we did that. I'm just pointing out there is a problem with, as you said, not separating opinion versus propaganda. It's totally fine to have someone a conservative on a news channel and be like, I actually think we should privatize blank, and then the liberal says, actually, it's more efficient if we run it like this and let the viewer decide that does not exist. There is no channel that does that accurately right now, because the Republican Party has moved all the way into misinformation and propaganda. So all of those people who are bad actors are now when they're presented as people who just have opinion, that's misleading and they should be labeled as completely false. None of this is true. Why are they even in the first place.

So then, so then to that point, Matt and Daisy, you can chime in here if you like as well. If the Republican Party has decided to entrench themselves in a lot of lives for the sake of popularity and staying connected to the base, or in Fox News's case, to keep the ratings going. You got to sell with the people. You got to show people what they're buying and they want right now. They won't lie, so you show them lies. The other side of that coin, though, is as a news organization, if you're ABC or NBC or CNN, do you just not have anyone on from that side of the line if most of the popular people that are going to be bringing ratings are also bringing lies? Is it I can't believe I'm saying this. Is it fair and balanced.

To ten lawyers running into your house?

Is it fair and fair and morally equitable? Haha?

Lawyers?

Is it fair and balanced to do that? Or do you just have on the Republicans who are still more centrist for the sake of having a balanced newscast, knowing that it won't get you the same ratings and then your show can get canceled.

Jeez?

That to me?

Who wants to take.

You?

Guys are the ex No?

No, I'm just asking mat because I know that I know the issue is they're putting liars on and I agree with you. Yeah, So then do you just not have anyone from that side represent it within a debate? Or do you get Republicans that don't move the needle, that make the show less electric, which.

Themselves do you have them on and call them outa in fact check them.

Yeah, this is like the thing, right, I think in general though like Matt probably might disagree with this, but I think in general, though we've seen people move away from having the Kaylee Mcaninees of the world on cable news, like.

You generally do not see that sort of thing. I do think it is.

A thing that newsrooms discussed though, because you don't want to shut off, you know, like you're saying, you just don't want to shut off what someone who you know, thirty percent of the country may think represents their views. And I think there is actually something somewhat valuable when you have someone like that on and you see their narrative just totally fall apart under you know, some like persistent questioning from like Jake Tapper, right like when when he's doing an interview and their narrative just falls apart, Like that's that's very valuable.

And I think to just demonstrate around Route Center.

President Trump told Bob Woodward the first week of February that he knew the coronavirus could be spread through the air and that it was more deadly than the flu. But two weeks later, he said at a rally that coronavirus was the Democrats new hoax. Is that acceptable to you? Is that misleading the public?

You're talking about the uh, the Woodward book?

Yes, the Woodward book.

Oh I can do is share with you my point of view, Pamela. Uh, these these gotcha books don't really interest.

Me that much.

He's on the record, He's on the record.

These these gotcha books don't really interest.

Me that much.

The bottom line is, he told Bob Woodward privately that this was a deadly virus, in that it was airborne.

Didn't the public?

Didn't the citizens in your home state of Louisiana deserve to know that as well, so that they could change their behavior appropriately to protect themselves.

Well. Number one, Pamla, I'm not going to repeat what I just said, but all I can tell you is what my personal experience has been.

Number Two, let me say a word.

About this infatuation in Washington with who said what to whom I learned pretty quickly up.

Here, Senator, I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you do this.

Okay, this is I understand there's so much politics right now, we're two months away from an election, but this is life and death.

I think that's the proper way to do these things is not to maybe, you know, just allow them to come on and just share a point of view necessarily that's factually inaccurate or not tethered to reality, but to actually challenge them. I do think that we've seen, you know, and I don't like making general remarks or white sweeping remarks, but I do think generally the news media has moved away from having you know, the Kayle's on, and if they are going to have them on, really putting them, you know, putting what they're saying under the microscope.

It's interesting two days ago or yeah, two days ago, Nicki Haley was on face the nation didn't get like any pushback about anything she was saying about Afghanistan, even though it was a lot of it wasn't bad faith. But I do see your point. I think there are no longer Kaylee Mcanany's getting paid by like cable news networks. I think that's true. The point about pushing back is like so important because how many people can actually do that, like in reality I'll give you Jake Tapper, Pamela Brown, I'll give you Jonathan Swan, I'll give you. I think Meddi Hassan's really good. I mean, are there that many people who are Terry Moran had a good interview with Paris Dynard on ABC, where Paris would Paris Deynard is a Trump supporter, would not say that Trump lost the election, and Terry for four minutes was like, just say it, just say he just say Joe Biden won, and Terry Ryan was like, Joe Biden is the roy. We did a video about this. You remember this, right, yeah?

Like, yes, it's Republicans admit that Trump, Yes, Joe Biden legitimately won the twenty twenty election, and yet a strange phenomena has arisen from the mist Republican mouths are unable to formulate these words. Watch this.

Is it a legitimate election under our constitution and loss?

Yes or no?

Joe Biden is the president.

The election was not stolen.

Correct, Look, Joe Biden's the president.

Republicans seem to know that Joe Biden is the president, but not how that happened. Do they think a stort delivered Joe Biden to the White House? Do they think he tunneled into the White House like some sort of reverse Shaw check? Do Republicans believe in an immaculate inauguration?

And so, like, well, that's good questioning. Those people should be commended and just held up as examples of how to interview these people. But the reality is that like most people can't do that, or they choose not to do that. And I think the difference between the debate of should you have these people on versus leaving them off comes down to are you gonna have them on with people who know how to treat them? And I don't think there's more than like six people who can actually do that, So that creates this whole of just bad interviews.

On the other side of the break, I want to get into that a little bit more with you, Oliver and Desi. Oliver, I need you to help me and Desi on how we can stop misinformation. First, what can news media outlet to do to stop the spread of misinformation? But more importantly, how can we stop the spread of misinformation at the Thanksgiving table.

We're going to solve all of that.

We'll do that in a minute. Beyond the scenes, we've been talking about the Fox playing segments that Daisy does that shows the enhanced effects of watching way too much cable news misinformation. Now, we were talking about this a little.

Bit by the way, Roy, when you're say enhanced, it's like very enhanced interrogation techniques, like it is torture to watch Fox News. It legitimately is.

Zero dot thirty. It takes shit going on when we talk about the misinformation, you know, Oliver, before the break, Nigelan was talking about, you know you need reporters that are gonna give that pushback. Is that the only thing that can help stop this misinformation?

I mean, there are a lot of things that can help stop this misinformation. I think it really comes down to large companies enabling this. And so it's difficult to tackle because there's not just one like avenue that misinformation is spreading on. So you have a talk radio avenue, which is it's totally undercovered. There are so many people who listen to talk radio for hours and hours a day, and you have hosts that most people haven't heard of who are are are spreading lies across the country, and they're supported by companies like Premiere Radio Networks. And we just never talk about premiere radio networks and how they allow for this spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories and they profit off of it. So there's there's that Avenue, then there's Fox News that avenue, then there's you know, even companies I asked companies at the beginning of the year, like comcasts like AT and T my employer, technically, you know, like Dish, why do you carry channels like o in you know, why do you carry channels that spread vaccine conspiracy theories, election conspiracy theories? And so you have those those guys, you know, to some extent, responsible for beaming these channels into the homes of millions of people across the country. And then you obviously have social media platforms which incentivize people to spread these lies by giving them you know, if the more read me throughout there, the more engagement you get and the more you're profile builds. Right, And so there are so many different issues here when we talk about the spread of this stuff. There are a lot of directions to go, and that really actually makes me extremely pessimistic and in terms of solving this.

Because I saw a tweet from Jason and Brusi, who's another media reporter at NBC. His tweet was like, Uh, it's almost impossible to talk to someone who doesn't have a family member who's been affected by misinformation at this point. And I think that over the past like six months, that has become clear to so many people that there is someone out there in your family or in other people's families, like in a way that is more extreme than ever because of what Oliver was just saying. Talk radio is like this thing that most of us don't even think is real because we don't drive in New York and so and we're not Republicans, so we don't have that on It hits millions of people, and it's way worse than what's on Fox. It's completely unchecked and there's no accountability.

When I used to do road trips as a stand up Kim and how they do like like a midnight to five am drive back to Birmingham. That shit is the Wild West radio like alien shows, there's psychic shows, and then there's politics somehow woven into all of that. How do we connect with the family members that are means that are kind of buying into this stuff? What's your move?

I it's I don't have the answer for that I wish I did. I find myself in conversations that I wish I didn't start, and I find myself having like a really enlightening conversation sometimes with family members who have a different set of beliefs. Fortunately, most of my family members who are Republican and have watched Fox News or do watch Fox News are of the belief that the vaccine works and COVID is real and they're taking it seriously. So thank god for that. But like, yeah, I try to lead with under trying to have an understanding of where they're coming from, and it's really hard to get on the same page with someone who just believes the information that they're being told and they're only trusting one source. If you're only getting your information from one source and everyone else is getting their information from somewhere else, you can't you're dealing with a different set of facts. So until you can acknowledge that there's not much.

Growth, that's an issue too, because like, if we're having a debate, right, we can agree that The New York Times is probably an authoritative outlet that you know, establishes basic facts. The issue is that if we're having a debate with someone who watches Fox and listens to talk radio. None of the authority of outlets are going to have any sway with them. In fact, if the if C and N reports something, they will probably be conditioned to think, well that it's the opposite is true.

And that's the issue. And this is actually where it would be helpful if there was a.

Trusted conservative news organization right that these people would understand and or at least listen to. But sadly there really isn't these days. The ones that were responsible I have been haulowed out and they're just you know.

Right because of the economics of it. And see, and that's the other part of it when we get into the corporate capitalistic part of media, is that OAYN has to one up Fox News if they're going to get there. They like they not only are the Democrats lizards, but their venomous.

The lizards like they have to Well here at Fox, we don't say they have venom in their lizard tongues. Okay, we will not go that far.

Shut up, Sean, Hey, you're stupid. The venoms.

Bitten by Jensaki. You will die in six to nine days from the venom that comes out of her teeth.

There is no profitability and sensibility in media right now, at least not from the right, and I think that's probably one of the biggest issues, Oliver. Have you as much as you are willing to share, What are your interactions like with your family from then to now in terms of your affiliations with media, the types of stories that you cover. Do you get family members that are like pull are you the one pulling family members to the side or you or are you the one that gets pulled to the side?

You know, Actually, my family is not very political, so I actually, you know, they they just think it's cool that they have someone who's on CNN or wherever it was, you know, so that that's the good news.

But I do know a lot of people who who have been sucked into this you know, alternate universe, and it's I mean, it's really difficult to have commerce about politics, and even now you know it's it's it's expanding beyond politics because this is really a lifestyle choice and so it can be extremely difficult to uh, just see eye to eye on basic.

Things at this point. And I wish there was a solution. I wish there was an antidote or a vaccine for this stuff, but.

They probably wouldn't take it anyway.

We wouldn't take it anyway exactly. I don't know. I don't know what the answers are.

I feel like I'm always the most pessimistic person in the room because I think this stuff is is really destroying American society. And I watch it every day. Matt watches every day. DESI watches it every day. I don't know if you watch it every day.

But don't. I have a child. I watch.

Well, it's when you watch it every day and you know that these people are peddling, you know, total bullshit like it is. It is very very aggravating, like I mean, and there's only so many media reporters out there like that, Like quite frankly, we cover Washington, DC, and we hold those people to account a lot more than we hold the Fox News is and the Ruper Murdocks to account. And I think that I've been saying that needs to change, like that is that just outdated. The Ruper Murdoch has so much more power than some random congressman like Marjorie Taylor Green, Like we need to be focusing, refocusing a lot of the scrutiny onto the people who are actually controlling the dialogue and incentivizing the Marjorie Taylor greens versus just focusing on the surface issues.

We have a clip of Fox News personalities saying some horrible things about refugees just in the past few days that I feel like is very similar to how like Oliver's describing, like watching this stuff is like so enraging.

Isn't really our responsibility to welcome thousands of potentially unvetted refugees from Afghanistan.

It is extraordinarily expensive to resettle a refugee in the United States. Resettling in America, it's not about solving a humanitarian crisis. It's about accomplishing an ideological objective to change America.

If history is any guide, and it's always a guide, we will see many refugees from Afghanistan resettle in our country in coming months, probably in your neighborhood, and over the next decade that number may swell to the millions. So first we invade, and then we're invaded. It is always the same.

I feel like that's such a perfect example of like white supremacy on Fox News that we do watch every day and like it's it's hard to just watch it and be like, got it, Okay, we are invaded? Uh huh, got it? Why is this responsiblity?

Got it?

Like when you watch it, you're like, ah, there are so many people who believe this. This is so like I have to take breaks watching that stuff. And it's not it's like it's truly not enjoyable to do.

It's a couple of clips just then just make me scared of the refugees. I was like, oh my goodness, how much does it cost?

That's the thing.

If you were to watch, like if you took a normal person, right, and someone who's smart and and apt, like if you were to force them like DESI, you know, theoretically does to just only watch this stuff and to only consume this kind of content.

Like it is very likely that they will start believing this stuff. Like it's not it's it's very likely.

Like and they can be a smart person outside of of you know, politics, they may be like an engineer, for instance, a really good math but when they're consuming this this political stuff, like you can see how you can see how the math works there, and that because.

They sound so sure of themselves, yeah, like especially the way that Tucker is like if history is any guide, and it always is, and it's like, well, that's kind of that's true, right, That's always.

The favorite thing to do too. It's just to say something and it always is, and I.

Write about this, yes, of course, they also like are putting all of this, like all of this false patriotism around it in like the worst way, which obviously since nine to eleven has been like kind of like slowly throwing more flags in the background and everywhere. But it makes you think like if you disagree with this, you're like kind of on American And that gets the people at Oliver's talking about these like people who maybe don't watch a lot of news all the time, if they watch it, they're like, why would they be saying that if they were not patriotic, Like that's the that's how you get those people in the middle, or people just who aren't super aware.

What people maybe don't realize is that like the Fox News primetime lineup now is so much more extreme than it was like ten years ago. Like you know, outside of what you think about Bill O'Reilly, like he was like not Tucker Carlson, Like Tucker Carlson is like mainlining you know, talking points basically from info wars. Like this stuff used to be relegated to really far weird corners of the Internet, and now it's being sent to millions of Americans nightly on Fox. And I just think people don't maybe understand that, like the Fox News we're talking about now is so much different than the Fox News from ten years ago.

What makes it so addictive for people? Because I know people who will plan their entire day around Fox News programming. Why why do people get sucked in in the way that they do unlike other news platforms.

Yeah, I mean, I like dun Lemon, but I'm not like, hey, I'll see y'all later. I gotta get home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think if you've been told the country is like going to hell and there are people, you know, scary people coming to invade the country, you know, and you believe this stuff, which they've been conditioned to believe this stuff over hours and hours and hours and days of programming, weeks and years of listening to folks like this, Like you think that the situation is very dire, and you want to hear a truth teller like Tucker Carlson, like it's it makes sense, right, like if you can get very easily sucked into this universe where like you need to know the truth and Tucker's the only one delivering the truth, and it's like an extremely urgent situation.

And that's sort of what it's like on Fox, right.

That's exactly what I was going to bring up a little earlier that in talking to other family members that I don't see out of eye onolitically, what I've often found is the consistent, the consistent, you know, thread between all of them is some degree of fear and self and self preservation. So I feel like my life is not where it needs to be, and I feel like this politician or this network has the solutions that will make some of my problems go away. So that's what I'm going to lock in on. And anything that you're talking about, even if it's better for mankind, it might not be good for me personally. So because of that, screw everybody else, and I'm going to lock in and watch this show. Like my family, you know, I have people that you know they were working, you know well through the pandemic and it was something that you know, we didn't always My uncle this sounds crazy. My uncle was still openly dating. And my uncle's vaccinated now and he wear a mask, and I'm like, dude, you can't just be out dating on a regular This is like last summer. It's just going on dates. These are literal strangers and a data is intimate to which my uncle said and I quote, I wear a mask, but if we have sex, I'm taking it off and we can talk about that on a separate podcast.

Originally a sex position, which is what.

We could go on about this all day. But I want to thank you Oliver for coming on and being a part of this. Thank you so much. And I will set the DVR for reliable sources on CNN and damn it, it is Oliver time. Nagron.

I'm excited to see that.

As always. Matt, thank you, and Desi thank you as well. If you want to watch desi segment that we've been talking about here on the podcast so eloquently for the last I guess almost an hour dailyshow dot com slash Beyond. Listen to the Daily Show Beyond the Scene on Apple podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to go even further beyond the Scenes. Check out the video version of Beyond the Scenes on the Daily Shows YouTube page.

Beyond the Scenes from The Daily Show

Imagine The Daily Show, but deeper. Host Roy Wood Jr. dives further into segments and topics covered 
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