Jamie Pennell had an esteemed 20-year career as a solder and leader inside the NZ SAS.

He was sent on four deployments to Afghanistan and in 2011, he was part of the unit which responded to the Taliban’s Intercontinental Hotel siege. For his bravery in helping save many lives that day - he was awarded the New Zealand Gallantry Star, the country’s second-highest military honour.

In this episode Jamie shares his story about what really happened, he talks about the unique culture of resilience and camaraderie within the NZSAS, and the subsequent alienation this can create when soldiers return to civilian life. We hear of touring with Willie Apiata and what happened the day Willie won his Vic Cross, the brutal reality of SAS selection and some of the most eye raising stories from war zones.

But this ep is so much more than ‘war stories’: in the second half Jamie reflects on what hes seen in men’s mental health, grief, and the struggles of reconnecting with his family. 

Jamie is now an advocate for rewiring the neural pathways to overcome negative thought patterns. After leaving the Defence Force, he gained his master’s in International Security, and trained high performance athletes to reach their goals and He now teaches Learning in the Outdoors to students at Dilworth School.

This podcats tackles some serious themes and there are mentions of suicide. It may not be suitable for all listeners.

If you, or anyone listening to the podcast - finds this subject challenging, please stop now. And remember, help is available from a range of organisations. There’s a list of them in the podcast episode description.

We’re also like to tell you about the business we’ve built. If you’d like to hire one of our incredible guests to speak at or MC your event, check out our epic lineup at B2Bspeakers.co.nz and get in touch.

This episode is brought to you by TAB, download the new app today and get your bet on!


1737, Need to talk? Free call or text 1737 to talk to a trained counsellor, 24 hours.


Anxiety New Zealand 0800 ANXIETY (0800 269 4389)


Depression.org.nz 0800 111 757 or text 4202


I Am Hope offers a range of services, with a particular focus on young people.


Lifeline 0800 543 354


Mental Health Foundation 09 623 4812, click here to access its free resource and information service.


Rural Support Trust 0800 787 254


Samaritans 0800 726 666


Suicide Crisis Helpline 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO)


thelowdown.co.nz Web chat, email chat or free text 5626


What's Up 0800 942 8787 (for 5 to 18-year-olds). Phone counselling available Monday-Friday, noon-11pm and weekends, 3pm-11pm. Online chat is available 3pm-10pm daily.


Yellow Brick Road 0800 732 825


Youthline 0800 376 633, free text 234, email talk@youthline.co.nz, or find online chat and other support options here.


If it is an emergency, click here to find the number for your local crisis assessment team.


In a life-threatening situation, call 111.

Jamie Pennell had an esteemed 20-year career as a solder and leader inside the NZ SAS. He was sent on four deployments to Afghanistan and in 2011, he was part of the unit which responded to the Taliban’s Intercontinental Hotel siege. For his bravery in helping save many lives that day - he was awarded the New Zealand Gallantry Star, the country’s second-highest military honour.
In this episode Jamie shares his story about what really happened, he talks about the unique culture of resilience and camaraderie within the NZSAS, and the subsequent alienation this can create when soldiers return to civilian life. We hear of touring with Willie Apiata and what happened the day Willie won his Vic Cross, the brutal reality of SAS selection and some of the most eye raising stories from war zones.
But this ep is so much more than ‘war stories’: in the second half Jamie reflects on what hes seen in men’s mental health, grief, and the struggles of reconnecting with his family. 
Jamie is now an advocate for rewiring the neural pathways to overcome negative thought patterns. After leaving the Defence Force, he gained his master’s in International Security, and trained high performance athletes to reach their goals and He now teaches Learning in the Outdoors to students at Dilworth School.
This podcats tackles some serious themes and there are mentions of suicide. It may not be suitable for all listeners. If you, or anyone listening to the podcast - finds this subject challenging, please stop now. And remember, help is available from a range of organisations. There’s a list of them in the podcast episode description.
We’re also like to tell you about the business we’ve built. If you’d like to hire one of our incredible guests to speak at or MC your event, check out our epic lineup at <a href="http://b2bspeakers.co.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://b2bspeakers.co.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1-PP-jcJio3SmigpZU4Bqw">B2Bspeakers.co.nz</a> and get in touch.
This episode is brought to you by TAB, download the new app today and get your bet on!
<ul>
<li>
<a href="https://www.1737.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.1737.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2y6TJ5G0ZtSnwQdhSZyNOA">1737, Need to talk?</a> Free call or text 1737 to talk to a trained counsellor, 24 hours.
</li>
<li>
<a href="http://www.anxiety.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.anxiety.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw2SyThlkRxX7MnQ4NgOKYmY">Anxiety New Zealand</a> 0800 ANXIETY (0800 269 4389)
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://depression.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://depression.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3ZASH1VNoeyUE45t01vVKT">Depression.org.nz</a> 0800 111 757 or text 4202
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.iamhope.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.iamhope.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0ygylaEjZO-xId3DR3k7EP">I Am Hope</a> offers a range of services, with a particular focus on young people.
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.lifeline.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.lifeline.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0FKXmZl--8ziXlWgn_xD_4">Lifeline</a> 0800 543 354
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0LdDrzV3RuuTL8sxHo5BkN">Mental Health Foundation</a> 09 623 4812, <a href="https://aiscloud.nz/MNT03/#!dashboard" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://aiscloud.nz/MNT03/%23!dashboard&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1l5odejnfNTW4BIwkBLeVy">click here</a> to access its free resource and information service.
</li>
<li>
<a href="http://www.rural-support.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.rural-support.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1yFDQ1V0FwO57DnnZtIe-V">Rural Support Trust</a> 0800 787 254
</li>
<li>
<a href="http://samaritans.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://samaritans.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0QNNKZLGbZcHipaK-0AjJE">Samaritans</a> 0800 726 666
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://www.lifeline.org.nz/suicide-crisis-helpline" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.lifeline.org.nz/suicide-crisis-helpline&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1ecEASSTlWk7FuzQnn8481">Suicide Crisis Helpline</a> 0508 828 865 (0508 TAUTOKO)
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://thelowdown.co.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://thelowdown.co.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0efoSbXOR-QgOgugvDv10c">thelowdown.co.nz</a> Web chat, email chat or free text 5626
</li>
<li>
<a href="http://www.whatsup.co.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.whatsup.co.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1FLH00Hwt7wuhv8fSFzOD1">What's Up</a> 0800 942 8787 (for 5 to 18-year-olds). Phone counselling available Monday-Friday, noon-11pm and weekends, 3pm-11pm. Online chat is available 3pm-10pm daily.
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://yellowbrickroad.org.nz/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://yellowbrickroad.org.nz/&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3gjgolppS_DmWHnvQvByow">Yellow Brick Road</a> 0800 732 825
</li>
<li>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youthline.co.nz_&amp;d=DwMFAg&amp;c=N9aEhCy8U0rJkO1xCZf7rgM9fohfR5qe_N93viZd7O8&amp;r=6pNfamogBC0OZexoWCkThV94vKAQQYj9k--RRjAXyAA&amp;m=1KyX-cdvg3geD-ZbzkWNJiDFwWjdsYpwG9Jp1HR2aDM&amp;s=zfmty0NCyU-Klk5MPd3o4fQnOM3vwiZR0IhxKPAq3dE&amp;e=" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u%3Dhttps-3A__www.youthline.co.nz_%26d%3DDwMFAg%26c%3DN9aEhCy8U0rJkO1xCZf7rgM9fohfR5qe_N93viZd7O8%26r%3D6pNfamogBC0OZexoWCkThV94vKAQQYj9k--RRjAXyAA%26m%3D1KyX-cdvg3geD-ZbzkWNJiDFwWjdsYpwG9Jp1HR2aDM%26s%3Dzfmty0NCyU-Klk5MPd3o4fQnOM3vwiZR0IhxKPAq3dE%26e%3D&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1vqt2QDtLjn1RUXAkcewZJ">Youthline</a> 0800 376 633, free text 234, email <a href="mailto:talk@youthline.co.nz">talk@youthline.co.nz</a>, or find online chat and other support options <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youthline.co.nz_counselling.html&amp;d=DwMFAg&amp;c=N9aEhCy8U0rJkO1xCZf7rgM9fohfR5qe_N93viZd7O8&amp;r=6pNfamogBC0OZexoWCkThV94vKAQQYj9k--RRjAXyAA&amp;m=1KyX-cdvg3geD-ZbzkWNJiDFwWjdsYpwG9Jp1HR2aDM&amp;s=yUm7rbZ_3YONl48kwsuP_oHsgbVDLhOQB1UI3ySTMXc&amp;e=" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u%3Dhttps-3A__www.youthline.co.nz_counselling.html%26d%3DDwMFAg%26c%3DN9aEhCy8U0rJkO1xCZf7rgM9fohfR5qe_N93viZd7O8%26r%3D6pNfamogBC0OZexoWCkThV94vKAQQYj9k--RRjAXyAA%26m%3D1KyX-cdvg3geD-ZbzkWNJiDFwWjdsYpwG9Jp1HR2aDM%26s%3DyUm7rbZ_3YONl48kwsuP_oHsgbVDLhOQB1UI3ySTMXc%26e%3D&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1-uw7SfTdZcNDKlqAzc6Rr">here</a>.
</li>
<li>
If it is an emergency, <a href="https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/services-and-support/health-care-services/mental-health-services/crisis-assessment-teams" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/services-and-support/health-care-services/mental-health-services/crisis-assessment-teams&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1724030042786000&amp;usg=AOvVaw0yoI9xqAiSibuwHANPneVI">click here</a> to find the number for your local crisis assessment team.
</li>
<li>
In a life-threatening situation, call 111.
</li>
</ul>

Good questions. Great guests. Few beers... Steve and Seamus like asking good questions. And they love good answers. After over 20 years of friendship, they bought a microphone and started a podcast, allowing them to sit with, and learn from, the most interesting people they can access.

From Kiwi legend Marc Ellis, to media personalities Jeremy Wells and Paddy Gower, Rugby coach extraordinaire Wayne Smith, sexologist Morgan Penn, and Olympian Dame Lisa Carrington...  Between Two Beers has produced countless hours of incredible stories, career highs, lows and moments of raw vulnerability. And it’s only the beginning.

iHeartRadio NZ Podcast Network

Good questions. Great guests. Few beers... Steve and Seamus like asking good questions. And they love good answers. After over 20 years of friendship, they bought a microphone and started a podcast, allowing them to sit with, and learn from, the most interesting people they can access.
From Kiwi legend Marc Ellis, to media personalities Jeremy Wells and Paddy Gower, Rugby coach extraordinaire Wayne Smith, sexologist Morgan Penn, and Olympian Dame Lisa Carrington...  Between Two Beers has produced countless hours of incredible stories, career highs, lows and moments of raw vulnerability. And it’s only the beginning.
iHeartRadio NZ Podcast Network

Good questions. Great guests. Few beers....

Between Two Beers Podcast

Good questions. Great guests. Few beers... Steve and Seamus like asking good questions. And they love good answers. After over 20 years of friendship, they bought a microphone and started a podcast; allowing them to sit with, and learn from, the most interesting people they can access. 

From Kiwi legend Marc Ellis, to media personalities Jeremy Wells and Paddy Gower, Rugby coach extraordinaire Wayne Smith, sexologist Morgan Penn, and Olympian Dame Lisa Carrington...  Between Two Beers has produced countless hours of incredible stories, career highs, lows and moments of raw vulnerability. And it’s only the beginning.

Good questions. Great guests. Few beers... Steve and Seamus like asking good questions. And they love good answers. After over 20 years of friendship, they bought a microphone and started a podcast; allowing them to sit with, and learn from, the most interesting people they can access. From Kiwi legend Marc Ellis, to media personalities Jeremy Wells and Paddy Gower, Rugby coach extraordinaire Wayne Smith, sexologist Morgan Penn, and Olympian Dame Lisa Carrington...  Between Two Beers has produced countless hours of incredible stories, career highs, lows and moments of raw vulnerability. And it’s only the beginning.

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