Also media.

Also media.

Change is coming. Now it's my time to record radio better offline right here in the beautiful iHeartRadio studios on fifty fifth Street, and my god, we're back from CS. You couldn't stop me. I got off. I did thirteen and a half bloody hours on the radio on the podcast thing. I'm just don't know why I keep calling it radio, and then got on the flight, moved to New York. It was nothing, wore off a ducks back and now it's Tuesday and we're already recording again. You'll never get rid of me. And today I have two amazing guests. I have Paris Martineau, reporter at the Information and the Mighty Jeff Jarvis, author of the Gutenberg Parenthesis and journalisman professor over at Stonybrook University. Mister Jarvis is currently he is fielding a phone call, so I'll go to Paris. Hey doing Paris.

Change is coming. Now it's my time to record radio better offline right here in the beautiful iHeartRadio studios on fifty fifth Street, and my god, we're back from CS. You couldn't stop me. I got off. I did thirteen and a half bloody hours on the radio on the podcast thing. I'm just don't know why I keep calling it radio, and then got on the flight, moved to New York. It was nothing, wore off a ducks back and now it's Tuesday and we're already recording again. You'll never get rid of me. And today I have two amazing guests. I have Paris Martineau, reporter at the Information and the Mighty Jeff Jarvis, author of the Gutenberg Parenthesis and journalisman professor over at Stonybrook University. Mister Jarvis is currently he is fielding a phone call, so I'll go to Paris. Hey doing Paris.

I'm doing great. I'm astounded by energy levels given the amount of podcasting and radio you've done the last week.

I'm doing great. I'm astounded by energy levels given the amount of podcasting and radio you've done the last week.

I am. I am fired up. I love doing this. I think this is what I was meant to do.

I am. I am fired up. I love doing this. I think this is what I was meant to do.

How are your feet after cees?

How are your feet after cees?

Fantastic? I got inserts from my I like came to this show fully prepared. No one realizes how much like the amount of like Google docs, I had of things prepared, like the suitcases packed like two weeks in advance, and then I got to New York and I'd forgotten things like gym shorts and some shoes. And basically I prepared my life for one thing, not both things.

Fantastic? I got inserts from my I like came to this show fully prepared. No one realizes how much like the amount of like Google docs, I had of things prepared, like the suitcases packed like two weeks in advance, and then I got to New York and I'd forgotten things like gym shorts and some shoes. And basically I prepared my life for one thing, not both things.

And it's podcasting, podcasting and blogging and nothing else.

And it's podcasting, podcasting and blogging and nothing else.

Sleep slave to the content. Now, mister Jarvis, how have you been?

Sleep slave to the content. Now, mister Jarvis, how have you been?

Oh? Good, good, it's cold here.

Oh? Good, good, it's cold here.

It is good.

It is good.

Do you have any regret coming here right now?

Do you have any regret coming here right now?

Absolutely not. Okay, I'd rather take this real last weather than the nonsense I get back in England. Oh it's kind of cold, but I usually see you two on this week in Tech, so it's good to have you here in person.

Absolutely not. Okay, I'd rather take this real last weather than the nonsense I get back in England. Oh it's kind of cold, but I usually see you two on this week in Tech, so it's good to have you here in person.

Yes, it's lovely to be irl with you. Some might say it's better offline.

Yes, it's lovely to be irl with you. Some might say it's better offline.

It's better offline, but it is very online. So all right, Paris, you had a story come out of the weekend. I did tell us about it.

It's better offline, but it is very online. So all right, Paris, you had a story come out of the weekend. I did tell us about it.

So it is a story about this website called Sniffy's. Have you guys ever heard of it?

So it is a story about this website called Sniffy's. Have you guys ever heard of it?

Right there, I want to stop and I don't want to know anything, Moore.

Right there, I want to stop and I don't want to know anything, Moore.

I think, well, it's actually where I'm that's probably a fair station. It is the up and coming, I guess, competitor to Grinder. It's a website for men seeking men. But it is specifically unlike you know, kind of your dating apps of your it's not really about dating, it's.

I think, well, it's actually where I'm that's probably a fair station. It is the up and coming, I guess, competitor to Grinder. It's a website for men seeking men. But it is specifically unlike you know, kind of your dating apps of your it's not really about dating, it's.

About it's actual hook up.

About it's actual hook up.

It's a hookup app, just for field. It is an actual app, and it's supposed to be kind of about translating the gay cruising scene into online.

It's a hookup app, just for field. It is an actual app, and it's supposed to be kind of about translating the gay cruising scene into online.

Potentially, right idea? Why not?

Potentially, right idea? Why not?

Yeah, people seem to really love it. It started in some kind of infancy form in twenty sixteen, but in the last couple of years has really taken off among like gays in big cities and cities honestly big and small.

Yeah, people seem to really love it. It started in some kind of infancy form in twenty sixteen, but in the last couple of years has really taken off among like gays in big cities and cities honestly big and small.

However, so nothing went wrong.

However, so nothing went wrong.

Nothing went wrong, that's the end of the story. I just like writing about when companies do good. So in this case, part of the thing that made Sniffy's so attractive to its users is it's kind of a no holds barred approach to hook up platforms. You don't even have to make an account to sign in. You can just type in Sniffy's dot com say yeah, I'm over eighteen, and then get to like navigating a map ful of dick picks and butt picks and messaging people and meeting up. Okay, that is a problem because it seems like the site has a bit of a child user issue. And when you have a child user issue, when you're a dating and sex platform, you also have a child sexual abuse platform. So me and my colleague Marie Weinberg identified over the last kind of a year or so more than a dozen cases where adult men had been charged for sex crimes involving a minor.

Nothing went wrong, that's the end of the story. I just like writing about when companies do good. So in this case, part of the thing that made Sniffy's so attractive to its users is it's kind of a no holds barred approach to hook up platforms. You don't even have to make an account to sign in. You can just type in Sniffy's dot com say yeah, I'm over eighteen, and then get to like navigating a map ful of dick picks and butt picks and messaging people and meeting up. Okay, that is a problem because it seems like the site has a bit of a child user issue. And when you have a child user issue, when you're a dating and sex platform, you also have a child sexual abuse platform. So me and my colleague Marie Weinberg identified over the last kind of a year or so more than a dozen cases where adult men had been charged for sex crimes involving a minor.

They meant all facilitated directly.

They meant all facilitated directly.

Yeah, and that's a lot, it seems for a relatively small platform. It's about decide.

Yeah, and that's a lot, it seems for a relatively small platform. It's about decide.

Still around afterwards? Is the thing that shocks me.

Still around afterwards? Is the thing that shocks me.

Well, I mean part of it is because the question of legal liability in these cases is a bit tricky. You have companies like there's long been an issue of kids getting onto adult dating apps and meeting adults, but up until recently, every legal challenge that a company that a parent or child that has grown up have tried to kind of throw against these companies saying, hey, you're actually not doing your job when it comes to policing underage do there's every legal challenge has been swept away by the company saying ah Section two.

Well, I mean part of it is because the question of legal liability in these cases is a bit tricky. You have companies like there's long been an issue of kids getting onto adult dating apps and meeting adults, but up until recently, every legal challenge that a company that a parent or child that has grown up have tried to kind of throw against these companies saying, hey, you're actually not doing your job when it comes to policing underage do there's every legal challenge has been swept away by the company saying ah Section two.

Thirty, even legal challenges aside. Would they not want to stop the children getting on the sex app? Well, it's hard sensibly, Okay? Did they try? Not?

Thirty, even legal challenges aside. Would they not want to stop the children getting on the sex app? Well, it's hard sensibly, Okay? Did they try? Not?

Really? Because all they wanted They don't want to have to try harder, it seems because right.

Really? Because all they wanted They don't want to have to try harder, it seems because right.

Now the standard thing they don't want to try harder on is stopping adults having sex with children.

Now the standard thing they don't want to try harder on is stopping adults having sex with children.

Yes, because that would require taking on some responsible ability. And right now, what all they all these companies do is they just ask you for your birthday and assume that you didn't lie, because if they were going to do anything more stringent than that, that could open them up to liability.

Yes, because that would require taking on some responsible ability. And right now, what all they all these companies do is they just ask you for your birthday and assume that you didn't lie, because if they were going to do anything more stringent than that, that could open them up to liability.

Explain something to me. So back Page and Craigslist took down their their sex sections.

Explain something to me. So back Page and Craigslist took down their their sex sections.

And also just for the for the listeners, Backpage, can you just run us through that.

And also just for the for the listeners, Backpage, can you just run us through that.

Backpage was a place where you could hook up. It was probably more of a singles into sex thing, right and Craigslist was pretty much singles but in within that people would find each other for that purpose.

Backpage was a place where you could hook up. It was probably more of a singles into sex thing, right and Craigslist was pretty much singles but in within that people would find each other for that purpose.

And then back Page was shut down.

And then back Page was shut down.

But the back Page shut down and Craigslist voluntarily got out of it because the liability was high, right, that was so they were shut down because it was sex trafficking or between that and what Snuffy.

But the back Page shut down and Craigslist voluntarily got out of it because the liability was high, right, that was so they were shut down because it was sex trafficking or between that and what Snuffy.

I believe part of the difference is when it comes to Backpage and Craigslist seeking connecttions, part of what they were originally shut down for involved fast assessed it involved specifically like sexual exploitation and sex traffic. FOSTA and SESTA were a package of bills that kind of went through some amounts of years ago that ended up regulating and making it making it so that these companies could not use the Section two thirty defense as a way to get around claims.

I believe part of the difference is when it comes to Backpage and Craigslist seeking connecttions, part of what they were originally shut down for involved fast assessed it involved specifically like sexual exploitation and sex traffic. FOSTA and SESTA were a package of bills that kind of went through some amounts of years ago that ended up regulating and making it making it so that these companies could not use the Section two thirty defense as a way to get around claims.

They were made responsible for us to generated content. Yes, right, got it.

They were made responsible for us to generated content. Yes, right, got it.

Yeah, And so in Sniffy's case, it's a bit different. Well, in some ways it's not a lot different, because part of the issue of what we found of those a dozen cases, i'd say like over a third of them did involve money being exchanged for sex with minors. However, part of it comes.

Yeah, And so in Sniffy's case, it's a bit different. Well, in some ways it's not a lot different, because part of the issue of what we found of those a dozen cases, i'd say like over a third of them did involve money being exchanged for sex with minors. However, part of it comes.

To the fact love of the game, I guess.

To the fact love of the game, I guess.

I guess part of it is that up until fairly recently, dating apps hadn't really badly claims like this against them. Whenever they had, they'd been basically laughed at of corpse, saying, Oh, of course, Grinder is not responsible for connecting your fourteen year old to a bunch of thirty year olds. It's a tech platform, it's user generated content. However, due to kind of shifting tides in the way that judges are viewing Internet companies, like defense says that's starting to change right now. There is a lawsuit that is going to be heard by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals involving a case called Dovee Grinder where a fifteen year old basically got on Grinder ended up being connected with four men who raped him. And part of what the attorney carry Goldberg is claiming in this appeal or arguing is that Grinder shouldn't be able to hide behind Section two thirty to say, hey, it's not our fault that we didn't age verify, that Grinder should be held liable for its faulty age verification policies under kind of product liability law, saying that this is a defectively designed product. And that's a specific argument the Ninth Circuit Court has been like amenable to when it comes to other tech companies like Snapchat, for instance.

I guess part of it is that up until fairly recently, dating apps hadn't really badly claims like this against them. Whenever they had, they'd been basically laughed at of corpse, saying, Oh, of course, Grinder is not responsible for connecting your fourteen year old to a bunch of thirty year olds. It's a tech platform, it's user generated content. However, due to kind of shifting tides in the way that judges are viewing Internet companies, like defense says that's starting to change right now. There is a lawsuit that is going to be heard by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals involving a case called Dovee Grinder where a fifteen year old basically got on Grinder ended up being connected with four men who raped him. And part of what the attorney carry Goldberg is claiming in this appeal or arguing is that Grinder shouldn't be able to hide behind Section two thirty to say, hey, it's not our fault that we didn't age verify, that Grinder should be held liable for its faulty age verification policies under kind of product liability law, saying that this is a defectively designed product. And that's a specific argument the Ninth Circuit Court has been like amenable to when it comes to other tech companies like Snapchat, for instance.

So what happened in the rest of the story.

So what happened in the rest of the story.

In the rest of the story, basically we identified all these different cases. We talked to Sniffy's. They said that they are working on an ID based age verification solution, but in reality, the only way that that's currently in practice is just in the dozen or so states that currently have pornography restrictions to where like part of the thing is if you open up Sniffe's, it's like a map and all the profile photos are like photos of penises. So if you are in one of those states with yeah, you're in one of those states, recognize yeah, I mean you'll we'll see exactly where they are. If you are in one of those states. When you open it up now, you'll see a blurred image and if you want to see the penis photos, you have to enter in your ID. However, the company says that there may be going to expand this in some way it hasn't happened yet.

In the rest of the story, basically we identified all these different cases. We talked to Sniffy's. They said that they are working on an ID based age verification solution, but in reality, the only way that that's currently in practice is just in the dozen or so states that currently have pornography restrictions to where like part of the thing is if you open up Sniffe's, it's like a map and all the profile photos are like photos of penises. So if you are in one of those states with yeah, you're in one of those states, recognize yeah, I mean you'll we'll see exactly where they are. If you are in one of those states. When you open it up now, you'll see a blurred image and if you want to see the penis photos, you have to enter in your ID. However, the company says that there may be going to expand this in some way it hasn't happened yet.

That would potentially open up legal liability.

That would potentially open up legal liability.

Then yeah, and that's but part of the thing is users also don't want to do that.

Then yeah, and that's but part of the thing is users also don't want to do that.

So I mean that was kind of what I was thinking that would kind of kill it.

So I mean that was kind of what I was thinking that would kind of kill it.

Yeah, or a platform like that is never going to be successful if it has that sort of barrier to entry and certiplications are huge.

Yeah, or a platform like that is never going to be successful if it has that sort of barrier to entry and certiplications are huge.

Yeah, you're handing over your identification to a company called Sniffies. Yeah, and I meant I wouldn't feel terribly secure in that.

Yeah, you're handing over your identification to a company called Sniffies. Yeah, and I meant I wouldn't feel terribly secure in that.

I mean I would, of course, but that's just me. But no, you also, you're right though, it's like these I imagine part of the thing here, other than the thing you're doing on there, is that it is kind of anonymous. Yes, that is that's the whole point, completely hidden, the thing where you can go off and touch all and sundry the problem being all in sundry there. What the legal ramifications though, if like the what was it do versus Grinder?

I mean I would, of course, but that's just me. But no, you also, you're right though, it's like these I imagine part of the thing here, other than the thing you're doing on there, is that it is kind of anonymous. Yes, that is that's the whole point, completely hidden, the thing where you can go off and touch all and sundry the problem being all in sundry there. What the legal ramifications though, if like the what was it do versus Grinder?

Yeah, I mean, so the thing is if that case, when it's appealed nines to the court, if they rule in a similar way that they have in the past and say, hey, when it comes to product liability cases like this, tech companies don't have a defense, that could have huge ramifications for every.

Yeah, I mean, so the thing is if that case, when it's appealed nines to the court, if they rule in a similar way that they have in the past and say, hey, when it comes to product liability cases like this, tech companies don't have a defense, that could have huge ramifications for every.

Company in the dating app, not just for dating even I.

Company in the dating app, not just for dating even I.

Mean, it could yeah, be way bigger than dating. But I mean the immediate impacts, according to the attorneys I spoke to, would be certainly on the dating app scene, which is huge because.

Mean, it could yeah, be way bigger than dating. But I mean the immediate impacts, according to the attorneys I spoke to, would be certainly on the dating app scene, which is huge because.

We'll all change with those things.

We'll all change with those things.

I mean probably what would change is they'd have to find a way to determine user age beyond just asking you for your to enter in your birthday, So it could be things like some of the other dating app companies out there already have stuff in place. For instance, I believe Bumble and one other maybe Tender, scan user profile photos when they're uploaded to see like, does this person look like clearly a child and if so, they might ask you to upload your idea to verify that you're over eighteen.

I mean probably what would change is they'd have to find a way to determine user age beyond just asking you for your to enter in your birthday, So it could be things like some of the other dating app companies out there already have stuff in place. For instance, I believe Bumble and one other maybe Tender, scan user profile photos when they're uploaded to see like, does this person look like clearly a child and if so, they might ask you to upload your idea to verify that you're over eighteen.

I feel like there could also be a big problem. So I've been on the dating apps for a while, not that I'm not single, it just nobody likes me. And I remember when I was on them it was like months and months. Actually, no like last year, like early last year. It's been a while. There was a huge fake profile problem, and I wonder if there's not a secondary problem here where the dominance of these fake profiles on there might get pushed away when they have to stop verifying every us because that feels like the on the s.

I feel like there could also be a big problem. So I've been on the dating apps for a while, not that I'm not single, it just nobody likes me. And I remember when I was on them it was like months and months. Actually, no like last year, like early last year. It's been a while. There was a huge fake profile problem, and I wonder if there's not a secondary problem here where the dominance of these fake profiles on there might get pushed away when they have to stop verifying every us because that feels like the on the s.

Yeah, but I mean then part of the problem, if you're thinking about it from a corporate perspective, is then your user numbers go down, and probably in those cases, those fake profiles are like, the person is probably paying for that fake proflex that increases their reach. If they're running some sort of scam and then they're paying, user numbers would go down, which would be bad for most dating app companies that are already doing poorly. A weird thing I learned during this story is that Grinder is like the most profitable dating app company because gay users don't. I mean, this is a bit of a simplication, but from what I heard, it is that gay users just seem to pay for the platform and use it for much longer. In part, researchers think because gay users are more likely to be in non monogamous relationships. So you're not You're not signing up for Hinge premium, using it for cons, then getting in a monogamous relationship, and never using it again.

Yeah, but I mean then part of the problem, if you're thinking about it from a corporate perspective, is then your user numbers go down, and probably in those cases, those fake profiles are like, the person is probably paying for that fake proflex that increases their reach. If they're running some sort of scam and then they're paying, user numbers would go down, which would be bad for most dating app companies that are already doing poorly. A weird thing I learned during this story is that Grinder is like the most profitable dating app company because gay users don't. I mean, this is a bit of a simplication, but from what I heard, it is that gay users just seem to pay for the platform and use it for much longer. In part, researchers think because gay users are more likely to be in non monogamous relationships. So you're not You're not signing up for Hinge premium, using it for cons, then getting in a monogamous relationship, and never using it again.

So believe it or not, I once was an executive overseeing parts of brides dot com.

So believe it or not, I once was an executive overseeing parts of brides dot com.

Ah, yes, you're so bridled.

Ah, yes, you're so bridled.

Yes, And I used to love to say I've got to go to a bridees meeting. But the interest thing there was that our audience would come in and leave in nine months, and for their sake, you hope they didn't come back.

Yes, And I used to love to say I've got to go to a bridees meeting. But the interest thing there was that our audience would come in and leave in nine months, and for their sake, you hope they didn't come back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right, This is the other extreme of that. What happened with the cases that were done against Sniffy's. What was the status of those cases?

Right, This is the other extreme of that. What happened with the cases that were done against Sniffy's. What was the status of those cases?

Well, I mean, so the cases that we that I tracked were all kind of like sex crimes against involving specific like male offenders. In two cases that we kind of follow throughout the story involving this then fourteen year old who made an accountant Sniffy's and had sex to adults. Those two adults have since been sentenced to upwards of as the question.

Well, I mean, so the cases that we that I tracked were all kind of like sex crimes against involving specific like male offenders. In two cases that we kind of follow throughout the story involving this then fourteen year old who made an accountant Sniffy's and had sex to adults. Those two adults have since been sentenced to upwards of as the question.

Those work cases against Sniffy's in any.

Those work cases against Sniffy's in any.

Case against people, that's the thing that Sniffy is no cases against him. I spoke to a parent, the parent of that fourteen year old, and she said, like, of course Sniffy should be sued. I don't know how to do it. I'm dealing with, you.

Case against people, that's the thing that Sniffy is no cases against him. I spoke to a parent, the parent of that fourteen year old, and she said, like, of course Sniffy should be sued. I don't know how to do it. I'm dealing with, you.

Know, three dealing with a criminal case.

Know, three dealing with a criminal case.

I'm dealing with three foster kids that already were fucked up, and now my fourteen year old is super fucked up and has tried to commit suicide because of this whole thing. You know, She's like, I don't know how to do this, but I do think that if something happens on the doversus Grinder front, you might see cases like this increasing increasingly being fut in the country.

I'm dealing with three foster kids that already were fucked up, and now my fourteen year old is super fucked up and has tried to commit suicide because of this whole thing. You know, She's like, I don't know how to do this, but I do think that if something happens on the doversus Grinder front, you might see cases like this increasing increasingly being fut in the country.

And could this not be extrap laid out to a much wider series of issues as well, like assaults that happen with people of age that still happen as a result of a platform. But but.

And could this not be extrap laid out to a much wider series of issues as well, like assaults that happen with people of age that still happen as a result of a platform. But but.

That's why I wanted to ask next, is when you go to product liability, it's usually that you're not matching a product promise. This is going to make you thin, this is going to make you beautiful? Yeah, does does Sniffy's promise safety?

That's why I wanted to ask next, is when you go to product liability, it's usually that you're not matching a product promise. This is going to make you thin, this is going to make you beautiful? Yeah, does does Sniffy's promise safety?

This is maybe Tinda has these feeches. I believe Tinda has feeches about like check in, So maybe like one of the platforms has safety feaches, so kind of okay, Grinder.

This is maybe Tinda has these feeches. I believe Tinda has feeches about like check in, So maybe like one of the platforms has safety feaches, so kind of okay, Grinder.

One of the things noted in that is that Grinder promotes itself as a quote safe space, and all of these platforms say like our users are eighteen and up, Like they say that they check users age, so they're two promise that in a way but then I guess the question goes, does asking someone to enter their date of birth in just a form? Does that mean you've actually checked their age?

One of the things noted in that is that Grinder promotes itself as a quote safe space, and all of these platforms say like our users are eighteen and up, Like they say that they check users age, so they're two promise that in a way but then I guess the question goes, does asking someone to enter their date of birth in just a form? Does that mean you've actually checked their age?

Well, this is the interesting thing. We've talked about this on our podcast on the Speak of Google is where does a liability land. Is it at at the platform technology level or is it the intermediary level, or is it at the user level? And if we try to expect the platforms to solve all the problems of mankind, we know they're going to fail. Well, I think will fail.

Well, this is the interesting thing. We've talked about this on our podcast on the Speak of Google is where does a liability land. Is it at at the platform technology level or is it the intermediary level, or is it at the user level? And if we try to expect the platforms to solve all the problems of mankind, we know they're going to fail. Well, I think will fail.

Specifically with TINDA. Under the Safety Policy Center, it says, and I quote our safety tools, we utilize a network of industry leading automated and manual moderation review tools, systems, and processes, and invest significant resources to prevent, monitor and remove inappropriate behavior, impersonation, harassment, and more from our app. These tools include automatic scans of profiles, red flag languages and images, manual reviews of profiles, and it goes on and so forth. And they also have a zero tolerance policy of harassment and encourage their community to report any instance of misconduct.

Specifically with TINDA. Under the Safety Policy Center, it says, and I quote our safety tools, we utilize a network of industry leading automated and manual moderation review tools, systems, and processes, and invest significant resources to prevent, monitor and remove inappropriate behavior, impersonation, harassment, and more from our app. These tools include automatic scans of profiles, red flag languages and images, manual reviews of profiles, and it goes on and so forth. And they also have a zero tolerance policy of harassment and encourage their community to report any instance of misconduct.

They have a liability statement there.

They have a liability statement there.

Now, yeah, see it's probably an additional policies decoration, harassment under it. Bloody hell, they got a lot now, there's just a lot of like things that they might be under the terms of use. But nevertheless, if this goes, if those versus Grinder happens, it feels like that won't stop people suing and using this as a promise.

Now, yeah, see it's probably an additional policies decoration, harassment under it. Bloody hell, they got a lot now, there's just a lot of like things that they might be under the terms of use. But nevertheless, if this goes, if those versus Grinder happens, it feels like that won't stop people suing and using this as a promise.

Certainly, Yeah, but there's a problem with that too. I've argued. I mean, Facebook is now completely fucked up and going full Maga, but I've argued strenuously over the years that it should have had a raisal on debt, a north star right right, and it should have said we're here to be nice to each other, We're here to build community, we're here to make strangers less strange. They do none of that, and I wish they would have because perhaps then there is a standard to hold them against and also their users. However, in this discussion, if they say, well, you said you're going to be the place where people are nice, and now you're filled with harris but it motivates them not to make any promises. Yes, yeah, that's a problem. I think.

Certainly, Yeah, but there's a problem with that too. I've argued. I mean, Facebook is now completely fucked up and going full Maga, but I've argued strenuously over the years that it should have had a raisal on debt, a north star right right, and it should have said we're here to be nice to each other, We're here to build community, we're here to make strangers less strange. They do none of that, and I wish they would have because perhaps then there is a standard to hold them against and also their users. However, in this discussion, if they say, well, you said you're going to be the place where people are nice, and now you're filled with harris but it motivates them not to make any promises. Yes, yeah, that's a problem. I think.

Also an IDC company, so I don't really that's the company that owns Tinder and match Group and a bunch of other ones like Chemistry dot Com and I don't they're evil, Like, this is my statement, you don't have to follow. I think they're deeply evil companies. But this Sniffy's thing is a level worse.

Also an IDC company, so I don't really that's the company that owns Tinder and match Group and a bunch of other ones like Chemistry dot Com and I don't they're evil, Like, this is my statement, you don't have to follow. I think they're deeply evil companies. But this Sniffy's thing is a level worse.

And I mean, I just think it's interesting because sniffy is I mean, is kind of like the worst of all these problems because it is completely without any of the safe.

And I mean, I just think it's interesting because sniffy is I mean, is kind of like the worst of all these problems because it is completely without any of the safe.

A frictionless experience.

A frictionless experience.

Yeah, but it's also gotten so popular in the last couple of years dating app the big dating apps are taking notice. Like Grinder shouted it out basically in one of their most recent earnings called said when an analyst had asked, like, oh, are there any competitors in the space that you're looking for keeping an eye on, and their CFO had said something along as there's like an anonymous they basically described Sniffy's in name but without using their name, and said we're keeping an eye on them. They also then introduced a feature I believe called right now that users on Grinder can turn on if they're looking for sex right that instant and other apps in the gay dating space have kind of emerged that are trying to take kind of a similar map based cruising approach.

Yeah, but it's also gotten so popular in the last couple of years dating app the big dating apps are taking notice. Like Grinder shouted it out basically in one of their most recent earnings called said when an analyst had asked, like, oh, are there any competitors in the space that you're looking for keeping an eye on, and their CFO had said something along as there's like an anonymous they basically described Sniffy's in name but without using their name, and said we're keeping an eye on them. They also then introduced a feature I believe called right now that users on Grinder can turn on if they're looking for sex right that instant and other apps in the gay dating space have kind of emerged that are trying to take kind of a similar map based cruising approach.

It is really funny though that the aultmeth thing is they were just like, yeah, why if we didn't follow any rules?

It is really funny though that the aultmeth thing is they were just like, yeah, why if we didn't follow any rules?

It is pretty funny.

It is pretty funny.

What if we just turned off the rules pot? And I think that kind of leads us to Meta right now, because I think what you're seeing with the destruction of Meta, and I'm sure you two have heard, but for the listeners, Meta has now got rid of all of their content moderation stuff. They've got ridly well. They're claiming that well their fact check the fact check a sorry sorry fact check, and I just fucked up the fact check, didn't I. And now and now they're laying off five percent No, thank god, someone else you know what's going on now. They're laying off five percent of their people for quote underperforming and they're gonna They're claiming the lms will replace like second tier engineers. And also they have cas in you and actually I've given them a lot of shit, but he's put out some really good things recently about what Meta has said inside and how they're doing allowable things like just straight up homophobia, straight up.

What if we just turned off the rules pot? And I think that kind of leads us to Meta right now, because I think what you're seeing with the destruction of Meta, and I'm sure you two have heard, but for the listeners, Meta has now got rid of all of their content moderation stuff. They've got ridly well. They're claiming that well their fact check the fact check a sorry sorry fact check, and I just fucked up the fact check, didn't I. And now and now they're laying off five percent No, thank god, someone else you know what's going on now. They're laying off five percent of their people for quote underperforming and they're gonna They're claiming the lms will replace like second tier engineers. And also they have cas in you and actually I've given them a lot of shit, but he's put out some really good things recently about what Meta has said inside and how they're doing allowable things like just straight up homophobia, straight up.

I mean, they just around the same time that these announcements rolled out that an internal directive went out to remove tampons and pads from any male restrooms on Facebook campuses, which.

I mean, they just around the same time that these announcements rolled out that an internal directive went out to remove tampons and pads from any male restrooms on Facebook campuses, which.

Is just a foolish thing.

Is just a foolish thing.

It's just that that is costing you money. You already have those dispensers in there, why not just leave them there.

It's just that that is costing you money. You already have those dispensers in there, why not just leave them there.

But I think that it's something above MAGA as well, and I think that people willing to do what I'm about to describe might lean conservative because it's evil. Now, if you're listening to your conservativecy it, don't be so rude, shout the fuck up. I don't care now.

But I think that it's something above MAGA as well, and I think that people willing to do what I'm about to describe might lean conservative because it's evil. Now, if you're listening to your conservativecy it, don't be so rude, shout the fuck up. I don't care now.

I'm surprised you've made it this far.

I'm surprised you've made it this far.

And yeah, I don't know how you are that. No, it's all the anti monopoly people who are like, God, damn it, yeah, Matt Stola. Anyways, So the point I'm making is I think Meta is going to be the largest scale example of a company just not giving a shit in history. They're just doing all the evil stuff. They're using this as a chance to get rid of these troublesome things such as any kind of diversity, ecity and inclusion, harassing trans people by removing them from spaces.

And yeah, I don't know how you are that. No, it's all the anti monopoly people who are like, God, damn it, yeah, Matt Stola. Anyways, So the point I'm making is I think Meta is going to be the largest scale example of a company just not giving a shit in history. They're just doing all the evil stuff. They're using this as a chance to get rid of these troublesome things such as any kind of diversity, ecity and inclusion, harassing trans people by removing them from spaces.

It's all around American and industry now, McDonald's, which depends upon black customers and depends upon black employees and people of color. No, DEI get rid of it. We don't care anymore. We're not going to do that anymore. And Meta, which cared about you know, and getting together and all that bs right. I was very impressed by Mark Limley, who is a Stanford law professor and a big deal in West Coast law. He is deactivating his account, but he's also firing Meta as a customer. Hell yeah, as a client, And he said, I have struggled with how to respond to Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook's dissent into toxic masculinity and neo Nazi madness. Yeay, And that's a lot of it is. It's not just political. It's this toast your I don't ads.

It's all around American and industry now, McDonald's, which depends upon black customers and depends upon black employees and people of color. No, DEI get rid of it. We don't care anymore. We're not going to do that anymore. And Meta, which cared about you know, and getting together and all that bs right. I was very impressed by Mark Limley, who is a Stanford law professor and a big deal in West Coast law. He is deactivating his account, but he's also firing Meta as a customer. Hell yeah, as a client, And he said, I have struggled with how to respond to Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook's dissent into toxic masculinity and neo Nazi madness. Yeay, And that's a lot of it is. It's not just political. It's this toast your I don't ads.

I actually know. I take back my hell yeah, overcount my hell yeah.

I actually know. I take back my hell yeah, overcount my hell yeah.

So this is you, thank you. They're waiting for this moment. But also like.

So this is you, thank you. They're waiting for this moment. But also like.

Hell yeah now, but like Daylight Dollar show. As you can ask Jeff Jeff Horwitz, the Wall Street journalists have broken code. Meta has been backing up the Mega people for years and years and years. They have benefit. They allowed plandemic to spread a horrible conspiracy film. Then I'm not even going to describe it sounds stupid and it is stupid. It's for moron whatever it's meant to be a big ten. I don't care. Jeff Kaplan, who is now the head of Global policy, I believe right, Joel Coot, Why do I keep mixing those back? Check you again, man, Now, this is why you have guests because I'm too stupid to remember things. He intervened with the Public Health Group specifically to allow plandemic to continue to go through. And when Kevin Russ attempted to report on this and report that crowd Tangle, this internal tool had allowed them to see that these things were spreading and that Dan Bongino and all the conservatives were basically all that was being recommended. Alex Schultz, the CMO of Facebook at the time. Meta, Now he just shut down crowd Tangle.

Hell yeah now, but like Daylight Dollar show. As you can ask Jeff Jeff Horwitz, the Wall Street journalists have broken code. Meta has been backing up the Mega people for years and years and years. They have benefit. They allowed plandemic to spread a horrible conspiracy film. Then I'm not even going to describe it sounds stupid and it is stupid. It's for moron whatever it's meant to be a big ten. I don't care. Jeff Kaplan, who is now the head of Global policy, I believe right, Joel Coot, Why do I keep mixing those back? Check you again, man, Now, this is why you have guests because I'm too stupid to remember things. He intervened with the Public Health Group specifically to allow plandemic to continue to go through. And when Kevin Russ attempted to report on this and report that crowd Tangle, this internal tool had allowed them to see that these things were spreading and that Dan Bongino and all the conservatives were basically all that was being recommended. Alex Schultz, the CMO of Facebook at the time. Meta, Now he just shut down crowd Tangle.

Baby.

Baby.

You can't have that, can't have people knowing. Alex Schultz also recently suggested on the anti LGBTQ front, and he is a gay man, that seeing homophobia and some such business on there would make people more sympathetic to the cause of LGBTQP.

You can't have that, can't have people knowing. Alex Schultz also recently suggested on the anti LGBTQ front, and he is a gay man, that seeing homophobia and some such business on there would make people more sympathetic to the cause of LGBTQP.

This is perverse it is.

This is perverse it is.

It's disgusting. But the thing is, it's I think what's frustrating me, and perhaps I need to stop things like it's not just maga is maga, of course it is, but it's been here for a while, and it's been here egregiously. They've been supporting the Conservatives at scale, and I mean supporting as a media property. And so it's just I just can't take it so seriously when people are going, well, this is Monk Zika finally giving in. No, that repressed little fuck he's oh going on, Joe Rogan Woo, things are not masculine enough. What the least masculine thing I've ever heard? Anyway? Right?

It's disgusting. But the thing is, it's I think what's frustrating me, and perhaps I need to stop things like it's not just maga is maga, of course it is, but it's been here for a while, and it's been here egregiously. They've been supporting the Conservatives at scale, and I mean supporting as a media property. And so it's just I just can't take it so seriously when people are going, well, this is Monk Zika finally giving in. No, that repressed little fuck he's oh going on, Joe Rogan Woo, things are not masculine enough. What the least masculine thing I've ever heard? Anyway? Right?

No, So on this Week of Google last week, I said, you know, is there anybody left? I thought that Jeff Bezos was a responsible steward of the Washington Post. He's not. Mark Zuckerberg was always a dork, but I didn't think he was as bad. Jack Dorsey gets weirder by the day and or not. And I said on the show that Jensen Wong, the CEO and founder of Nvidia, I'd watched his two hour keynote at the CS I was I'm impressed by it by him Costley, So well, maybe there's maybe there's a smart guy next.

No, So on this Week of Google last week, I said, you know, is there anybody left? I thought that Jeff Bezos was a responsible steward of the Washington Post. He's not. Mark Zuckerberg was always a dork, but I didn't think he was as bad. Jack Dorsey gets weirder by the day and or not. And I said on the show that Jensen Wong, the CEO and founder of Nvidia, I'd watched his two hour keynote at the CS I was I'm impressed by it by him Costley, So well, maybe there's maybe there's a smart guy next.

Day believing the good people.

Day believing the good people.

The next day on MASTERD and somebody said, this is your good guy. Jensen Wong was signing a woman's breast.

The next day on MASTERD and somebody said, this is your good guy. Jensen Wong was signing a woman's breast.

To say, Jeff, well, first of all, if she asked, if she asked, But also I would choose the other thing that Jensen Huang did. At ces So during one of the presentations, an audio guy was like, hurried on, he goes, I can hear myself, I can hear myself. And the guy's like, no, no, mister, mister Houang. It's reflecting off the size. He's like, no, no, And he was called Sebastian. I believe he's like I'm when I when someone makes a mistake, I'm gonna call it a Sebastian going forward, Okay, that's the thing. It is a fair thing, though, and I'm not saying I think there are some who want this more than others. It would be nice if one of them wasn't insane. I thought it was Mark Benioff for a while, I thought I thought Mark Benioff was all right. And I actually had coffee with the report after I met him and like described him positively, and she said, so he's just another white TEXTI I'm like, oh shit, I'm doing the thing that I'm doing the exact thing, but also be too.

To say, Jeff, well, first of all, if she asked, if she asked, But also I would choose the other thing that Jensen Huang did. At ces So during one of the presentations, an audio guy was like, hurried on, he goes, I can hear myself, I can hear myself. And the guy's like, no, no, mister, mister Houang. It's reflecting off the size. He's like, no, no, And he was called Sebastian. I believe he's like I'm when I when someone makes a mistake, I'm gonna call it a Sebastian going forward, Okay, that's the thing. It is a fair thing, though, and I'm not saying I think there are some who want this more than others. It would be nice if one of them wasn't insane. I thought it was Mark Benioff for a while, I thought I thought Mark Benioff was all right. And I actually had coffee with the report after I met him and like described him positively, and she said, so he's just another white TEXTI I'm like, oh shit, I'm doing the thing that I'm doing the exact thing, but also be too.

So may I put together my theory forward? My theory it's called CEO.

So may I put together my theory forward? My theory it's called CEO.

Brainworms, Please Please.

Brainworms, Please Please.

It's simply that if you are a CEO of something, especially a large company, you increasingly get brainworms, which is just you are surrounded by people whose job is largely to say yes to you, make you feel good, and that would make anyone insane. If you are surrounded by sick evans for long enough, I think that you are going to become untethered from reality in a way that is distressing to a person that exists in conflats.

It's simply that if you are a CEO of something, especially a large company, you increasingly get brainworms, which is just you are surrounded by people whose job is largely to say yes to you, make you feel good, and that would make anyone insane. If you are surrounded by sick evans for long enough, I think that you are going to become untethered from reality in a way that is distressing to a person that exists in conflats.

Someone on Twitter once said, being a billionaire is like being kicked in the horse and the head by horse every day. And I think that's fair.

Someone on Twitter once said, being a billionaire is like being kicked in the horse and the head by horse every day. And I think that's fair.

But there's something different now. I think they've always been sexists. It's a male structure that's given, but the permission structure has changed, rightly, yes, and I don't think it necessarily. Their essence has changed, But they're all freed.

But there's something different now. I think they've always been sexists. It's a male structure that's given, but the permission structure has changed, rightly, yes, and I don't think it necessarily. Their essence has changed, But they're all freed.

They're untethered, yes, and yeah, I I fully agree with that. And I think you're really seeing it with Zuckerberg, and it kind of makes so much more. I wish I would have called this one, because he is doing exactly what you'd expect. He's just I'm gonna remove all of the stuff that makes Facebook already a basically unusable platform. I'm gonna make it. I'm just gonna add all the racism back. We need some more racism there. And I'm just gonna fire a bunch of people, and I'm gonna go on Joe Rogan and talk about my sad little Willy or whatever he said. I didn't watch. I don't care. It's just what happens with Google now? Is my question? What is the untethered Sundar Peshai experience.

They're untethered, yes, and yeah, I I fully agree with that. And I think you're really seeing it with Zuckerberg, and it kind of makes so much more. I wish I would have called this one, because he is doing exactly what you'd expect. He's just I'm gonna remove all of the stuff that makes Facebook already a basically unusable platform. I'm gonna make it. I'm just gonna add all the racism back. We need some more racism there. And I'm just gonna fire a bunch of people, and I'm gonna go on Joe Rogan and talk about my sad little Willy or whatever he said. I didn't watch. I don't care. It's just what happens with Google now? Is my question? What is the untethered Sundar Peshai experience.

I'm gonna be naive again. I think it's different, maybe because Sundar is educated and Luri and Sergei are educated, and Zuckerberg left sophomore year seminar brain.

I'm gonna be naive again. I think it's different, maybe because Sundar is educated and Luri and Sergei are educated, and Zuckerberg left sophomore year seminar brain.

Sure, but I'm not sure that I've met plenty of psychotic people in college. True, and I'm just true. I'm just wondering, perhaps I should reframe the question. It's like, what happens the Google now? How how worried about Google's quality. I am if like, because this is what's what Meta is doing is effectively what Google's been working on. It's the whole thing of degrading the quality of the service by taking off the things that makes it good.

Sure, but I'm not sure that I've met plenty of psychotic people in college. True, and I'm just true. I'm just wondering, perhaps I should reframe the question. It's like, what happens the Google now? How how worried about Google's quality. I am if like, because this is what's what Meta is doing is effectively what Google's been working on. It's the whole thing of degrading the quality of the service by taking off the things that makes it good.

Well, I argue that different industry that the problem for Google isn't just Google. The problem is the web. The Web is being ruined as a whole, and it's a window on to a worse web, and.

Well, I argue that different industry that the problem for Google isn't just Google. The problem is the web. The Web is being ruined as a whole, and it's a window on to a worse web, and.

In some ways Google is accelerating that. But yeah, Google has, as it is the portal to the Web, entire industries upon industries have emerged to a game that portal of the web, which results in kind of a self fulfilling prophecy of the quality.

In some ways Google is accelerating that. But yeah, Google has, as it is the portal to the Web, entire industries upon industries have emerged to a game that portal of the web, which results in kind of a self fulfilling prophecy of the quality.

The content that they raise becomes the most popular content, which in turn informs what will be popular next.

The content that they raise becomes the most popular content, which in turn informs what will be popular next.

Yes, or it's an armload of a chicken today.

Yes, or it's an armload of a chicken today.

Yeah, yeah, I'm angry. It's I think that this is really going to hasten the row economy. I think this is just going to begin more rot because before there was this lair and they obviously all resented it where it was just like god, oh yeah, there's different colored people. I guess fucking because woman now Jesus Christ, and they've always like grumpily accepted it. And Meta has been weirdly one of the better ones, which means that the ones who are not going, what do you think fucking Tesla's gonna be? Like Tesla's not going to have bathroom for woman anymore? That's a guess, it's it's it's a joke. I don't know who are you worried about jet Like who who's the real bastard left? Who's the bustard who hasn't basted it yet?

Yeah, yeah, I'm angry. It's I think that this is really going to hasten the row economy. I think this is just going to begin more rot because before there was this lair and they obviously all resented it where it was just like god, oh yeah, there's different colored people. I guess fucking because woman now Jesus Christ, and they've always like grumpily accepted it. And Meta has been weirdly one of the better ones, which means that the ones who are not going, what do you think fucking Tesla's gonna be? Like Tesla's not going to have bathroom for woman anymore? That's a guess, it's it's it's a joke. I don't know who are you worried about jet Like who who's the real bastard left? Who's the bustard who hasn't basted it yet?

Well, that's I think that's the I hope the Google is not going to go that far, I think for their business, and it would be any any good. Here's the other question blue Sky?

Well, that's I think that's the I hope the Google is not going to go that far, I think for their business, and it would be any any good. Here's the other question blue Sky?

Right?

Right?

Do we have any hope for Blue Sky?

Do we have any hope for Blue Sky?

So?

So?

I have, but I'm an optimist. I hold out hope. I like Blue Sky.

I have, but I'm an optimist. I hold out hope. I like Blue Sky.

I'm a nihilist, but I have hope for Blue Sky.

I'm a nihilist, but I have hope for Blue Sky.

Selfishly yes, And then I saw did you see the thing yesterday? I've got to pull up the rundown. There's an effort to raise thirty million dollars.

Selfishly yes, And then I saw did you see the thing yesterday? I've got to pull up the rundown. There's an effort to raise thirty million dollars.

Is this the free my appads, which which is filled with people like Shoshana Zuboff. This to me what I was already on my notes. I'm glad you brought this up. It's really what is it?

Is this the free my appads, which which is filled with people like Shoshana Zuboff. This to me what I was already on my notes. I'm glad you brought this up. It's really what is it?

And Dave Winer, who's one of the pioneers of RSS and podcasting and blogging and so on, his response was, there's no nerds there, there's no technologists there.

And Dave Winer, who's one of the pioneers of RSS and podcasting and blogging and so on, his response was, there's no nerds there, there's no technologists there.

I also, it doesn't seem to be saying what they'll do.

I also, it doesn't seem to be saying what they'll do.

No, it did.

No, it did.

Yeah, so what have they raised the money too?

Yeah, so what have they raised the money too?

They've not even raised the money.

They've not even raised the money.

They're declaring their hope to raise money. I'd also like to declare that.

They're declaring their hope to raise money. I'd also like to declare that.

I also raise dollars.

I also raise dollars.

I'll spend it on a Brownstone and give you ten twenty millions.

I'll spend it on a Brownstone and give you ten twenty millions.

I will keep the money and do nothing else.

I will keep the money and do nothing else.

What's the name of it again?

What's the name of it again?

Free off feeds because I.

Free off feeds because I.

Want to go to the list of the people who are associated.

Want to go to the list of the people who are associated.

No, it's really funny. There's Cory doctor wrote and Shoshana zoo Buff right, which if if you've ever talked to Corey about Shoshana Zoo Buff, let me just say that's a weird coffee date.

No, it's really funny. There's Cory doctor wrote and Shoshana zoo Buff right, which if if you've ever talked to Corey about Shoshana Zoo Buff, let me just say that's a weird coffee date.

Yeah, it marks a sermon from Mozilla, who I think is a good guy, but Shoshana drives me crazy. Roger mct to me, Oh, doesn't call me anymore, drives me nuts, Mark Ruffalo, Jimmy Wales, We like Brian eno Is everywhere, Carol Cadwallader from Well the Guardians Soon, Roger Turtle.

Yeah, it marks a sermon from Mozilla, who I think is a good guy, but Shoshana drives me crazy. Roger mct to me, Oh, doesn't call me anymore, drives me nuts, Mark Ruffalo, Jimmy Wales, We like Brian eno Is everywhere, Carol Cadwallader from Well the Guardians Soon, Roger Turtle.

It's just a bunch of people who don't build.

It's just a bunch of people who don't build.

They don't build, they don't build. So uh, my friend Craig new Mark.

They don't build, they don't build. So uh, my friend Craig new Mark.

Costically, what they want to use the raised funds for is to launching a public interest foundation to support the project while creating independently hosted infrastructure giving Blue Sky users, developers, and researchers access to content.

Costically, what they want to use the raised funds for is to launching a public interest foundation to support the project while creating independently hosted infrastructure giving Blue Sky users, developers, and researchers access to content.

And then you don't need thirty million dollars to do that. Mastodon built up to what it was just when went after until the point where Musk bought Twitter Masterdon has had raised an entirety.

And then you don't need thirty million dollars to do that. Mastodon built up to what it was just when went after until the point where Musk bought Twitter Masterdon has had raised an entirety.

Thousand Maston literally just did a nonprofit operation like a day or two ago, saying that they're kind of decentralizing it. See. I don't enjoy Mastodon at all. I don't think.

Thousand Maston literally just did a nonprofit operation like a day or two ago, saying that they're kind of decentralizing it. See. I don't enjoy Mastodon at all. I don't think.

I think it's a bunch of scolds.

I think it's a bunch of scolds.

Yeah, it feels like I need to do a content warning because I didn't use a capital letter in the right place exactly like I'm eating lunch. Wow, how dare did you see that guy in the matrix. He didn't even have a mouth. Now, I think what frustrates me here is like Mastodon did something real that they moved stuff around and this thing I got reached out to by them, and I read a few articles and I'm pretty stupid. So I was like, maybe someone else saw song. I sent to a few friends. Everyone was like, this looks good. I guess it isn't anything.

Yeah, it feels like I need to do a content warning because I didn't use a capital letter in the right place exactly like I'm eating lunch. Wow, how dare did you see that guy in the matrix. He didn't even have a mouth. Now, I think what frustrates me here is like Mastodon did something real that they moved stuff around and this thing I got reached out to by them, and I read a few articles and I'm pretty stupid. So I was like, maybe someone else saw song. I sent to a few friends. Everyone was like, this looks good. I guess it isn't anything.

There's nothing.

There's nothing.

It's just there's nothing. Why is everyone covered? Will Aramis call me? Will it Aramis of the Washington boast to I adore? Why are you giving them a Q and a they he talked all about them. It's just it's frustrating because I think it was the they've done kind of I hope I'm wrong. I hope this thing does the thing that they're non spit, but you could do it? What is actually? I don't why am I even saying I hope they do it. I actually cannot tell you what they do.

It's just there's nothing. Why is everyone covered? Will Aramis call me? Will it Aramis of the Washington boast to I adore? Why are you giving them a Q and a they he talked all about them. It's just it's frustrating because I think it was the they've done kind of I hope I'm wrong. I hope this thing does the thing that they're non spit, but you could do it? What is actually? I don't why am I even saying I hope they do it. I actually cannot tell you what they do.

So the eighth conception, to me, it should be to federate Blue Sky, to take the at protocol and make it federated like masterodot is like activity put right that that requires Jay Graber and Blue Sky to have enough resources to put out what's needed for federation.

So the eighth conception, to me, it should be to federate Blue Sky, to take the at protocol and make it federated like masterodot is like activity put right that that requires Jay Graber and Blue Sky to have enough resources to put out what's needed for federation.

And I wonder if that costs thirty million.

And I wonder if that costs thirty million.

No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't.

What they want to do from what I understand of this vague promise now is I think they want to be like, hey, do you want to fund like the other Blue Sky. It just feels this kind of vagueness and now that we've listed out all the names and just kind of like, this is a cynical This is like one of those stand up to cancer thing.

What they want to do from what I understand of this vague promise now is I think they want to be like, hey, do you want to fund like the other Blue Sky. It just feels this kind of vagueness and now that we've listed out all the names and just kind of like, this is a cynical This is like one of those stand up to cancer thing.

No, No, it doesn't qualify.

No, No, it doesn't qualify.

It's cynical. It's cynical. And I like the thing is there of people I look like, Corey's awesome.

It's cynical. It's cynical. And I like the thing is there of people I look like, Corey's awesome.

Absolutely, And it's like.

Absolutely, And it's like.

All of these promises without really promising anything. What does that sound like? The tech industry like, why don't you come to this with some things? And the answer is they just want to talk about we want to make it billionaire proof. What the fuck does that mean? Really does have way more money than thirty million dollars. They've got like one hundred and fifty million more dollars than that. That's how much a billion is exactly, And it's just everyone's kind of fallen for it. And I hope it does something good, but I really cannot say what that might be. And if their answer is well you didn't read it well enough, not my fucking problem. Mate, You explain the shit when you're talking to all and Sundry about this.

All of these promises without really promising anything. What does that sound like? The tech industry like, why don't you come to this with some things? And the answer is they just want to talk about we want to make it billionaire proof. What the fuck does that mean? Really does have way more money than thirty million dollars. They've got like one hundred and fifty million more dollars than that. That's how much a billion is exactly, And it's just everyone's kind of fallen for it. And I hope it does something good, but I really cannot say what that might be. And if their answer is well you didn't read it well enough, not my fucking problem. Mate, You explain the shit when you're talking to all and Sundry about this.

Have you seen anything from Jay Graber or Eplusky about what she thinks of this.

Have you seen anything from Jay Graber or Eplusky about what she thinks of this.

She gave a canned quote and said it was good because I mean, if in her position, well, it'd be funny if it's just like this bullshit fuck these people.

She gave a canned quote and said it was good because I mean, if in her position, well, it'd be funny if it's just like this bullshit fuck these people.

I mean, I guess, yeah, if someone wants to buy out her startup for thirty million dollars.

I mean, I guess, yeah, if someone wants to buy out her startup for thirty million dollars.

Well, it's not even that. She was just like, yeah, it's a pretty good thing. I think it might have been Ja. I don't know if it was Jay who did the quote, but it was something along the lines of like this is cut good. You know that protol.

Well, it's not even that. She was just like, yeah, it's a pretty good thing. I think it might have been Ja. I don't know if it was Jay who did the quote, but it was something along the lines of like this is cut good. You know that protol.

Mike Basnik is now on the board a Blue Sky. He's the voice I'll trust on this.

Mike Basnik is now on the board a Blue Sky. He's the voice I'll trust on this.

Yes, I generally trust Mike. We have some differing opinions, mostly on section two thirty, but I think that that's everyone's experience with Mike.

Yes, I generally trust Mike. We have some differing opinions, mostly on section two thirty, but I think that that's everyone's experience with Mike.

It's just because I agree with Mike on section Yes.

It's just because I agree with Mike on section Yes.

No, no, I know you know, I'm a huge man. He was a guest on the show. He was one of my favorite episodes, The streisand Effects.

No, no, I know you know, I'm a huge man. He was a guest on the show. He was one of my favorite episodes, The streisand Effects.

I think. I think Mike is lovely.

I think. I think Mike is lovely.

He's wonderful, really really good storyteller and actually a good journalist, which is why this whole thing is something I really would like his opinion on, because it feels like the kind of thing you get like a call bowe bode yes, like an article and being like a bunch of tech people. Ship it up again, Carl, I love it, but also I don't want to be a wet blanket here but bloosh, Like it's just frustrating because you know what we actually need right now, like pixel fed or whatever, the federated Instagram thing that is currently being blocked. What is pixel It's just an Instagram that's decentralized, much like massif activity. Yeah, it's an actual thing that probably could use thirty million dollars and is an actual story beyond it being blocked. But the thing getting covered is a bunch of people getting together and saying wouldn't it be nice if something was nicer when you actually have someone doing the thing. Because what we need right now is a blue sky for Facebook, or we need Facebook equivalent and Instagram equivalent, because once Meta loses their grip on those two things, they are fucked. They do not have a real business. The whole AI profiles thing, which we'll get to in a minute, and all of this here, we're going to take off the We're going to take off all the things that I don't allow you to say, the fourteen words every post. We're going to allow trans people to protect.

He's wonderful, really really good storyteller and actually a good journalist, which is why this whole thing is something I really would like his opinion on, because it feels like the kind of thing you get like a call bowe bode yes, like an article and being like a bunch of tech people. Ship it up again, Carl, I love it, but also I don't want to be a wet blanket here but bloosh, Like it's just frustrating because you know what we actually need right now, like pixel fed or whatever, the federated Instagram thing that is currently being blocked. What is pixel It's just an Instagram that's decentralized, much like massif activity. Yeah, it's an actual thing that probably could use thirty million dollars and is an actual story beyond it being blocked. But the thing getting covered is a bunch of people getting together and saying wouldn't it be nice if something was nicer when you actually have someone doing the thing. Because what we need right now is a blue sky for Facebook, or we need Facebook equivalent and Instagram equivalent, because once Meta loses their grip on those two things, they are fucked. They do not have a real business. The whole AI profiles thing, which we'll get to in a minute, and all of this here, we're going to take off the We're going to take off all the things that I don't allow you to say, the fourteen words every post. We're going to allow trans people to protect.

You.

You.

Don't do that just because you're evil. Capitalism is generally gonna move towards the most profitable direction. You do this because all that stuff just got in the way of more stuff and more growth. You break that machine with an alternative that doesn't suck constantly.

Don't do that just because you're evil. Capitalism is generally gonna move towards the most profitable direction. You do this because all that stuff just got in the way of more stuff and more growth. You break that machine with an alternative that doesn't suck constantly.

Let we tried different theory on okay, which is that I made fun of Musk buying Twitter forty four billion dollars. What a fool you are, And we all know how wrong that was, because he's worth ten times more because he sees access to power around the world around Yeah, he used it. Is Zuckerberg simply jealous of Musk's political cloud?

Let we tried different theory on okay, which is that I made fun of Musk buying Twitter forty four billion dollars. What a fool you are, And we all know how wrong that was, because he's worth ten times more because he sees access to power around the world around Yeah, he used it. Is Zuckerberg simply jealous of Musk's political cloud?

Nah? I don't think so.

Nah? I don't think so.

He's more more by money than power.

He's more more by money than power.

I think he could just given what do you.

I think he could just given what do you.

Think, I mean, I think that that could be could thing. I think that certainly access to political power is something that he wants, as do all of these people. The fact that Zuck Musk and who is the third person, A bunch of text CEOs are going to be sitting in Trump and Besis are going to be sitting in Trump's little box of the inauguration, I think speaks volumes.

Think, I mean, I think that that could be could thing. I think that certainly access to political power is something that he wants, as do all of these people. The fact that Zuck Musk and who is the third person, A bunch of text CEOs are going to be sitting in Trump and Besis are going to be sitting in Trump's little box of the inauguration, I think speaks volumes.

Did you cover a Facebook and I feel like you've covered them previously?

Did you cover a Facebook and I feel like you've covered them previously?

Yeah, I covered them earlier on right?

Yeah, I covered them earlier on right?

Is this is there anything historic about? Because I was just thinking, has Zuck about generally hung out with presidents in any way? Like has he ever really been social with them?

Is this is there anything historic about? Because I was just thinking, has Zuck about generally hung out with presidents in any way? Like has he ever really been social with them?

Maderstanding is no, not to this extent.

Maderstanding is no, not to this extent.