Better OfflineWelcome to Better Offline’s coverage of the 2025 Consumer Electronics Show - a standup radio station in the Venetian with an attached open bar where reporters, experts and various other characters bring you the stories from the floor. In the second episode, Ed Zitron is joined by Jesse Farrar and Michael Hale of Your Kickstarter Sucks, Henry Casey of CNN Underscored, Max Cherney of Reuters, Matt Binder of Mashable, Tom McKay of ITBrew and journalist Ed Ongweso Jr. to talk about trying to find something useful that AI does in a show where everybody uses AI so liberally that it's effectively stopped meaning anything.
Your Kickstarter Sucks: https://www.patreon.com/yourkickstartersucks
Jesse Farrar: https://bsky.app/profile/jessefarrar.com
Michael Hale: https://x.com/dogboner
Ed Ongweso Jr: https://bsky.app/profile/bigblackjacobin.bsky.social
Max Cherney: https://www.reuters.com/authors/max-a-cherney/
Matt Binder: https://bsky.app/profile/mattbinder.bsky.social
Henry Casey: https://bsky.app/profile/henrytcasey.net
Tom McKay: https://bsky.app/profile/catturd2.bsky.social
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When I was a young boy, my father he took me to the Las Vegas based consumer electronics show and he left me here for days. Welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed zitpon and we are back talking about the consumer electronics show. I slept five hours yesterday, so I was a little low energy. Today I am way higher energy. So this is what you have to expect today. But I'm joined by another dynamic coachie of guests. On my left here I have Tom McKay's, a senior reporter at it brew. Tom, Thank you so much for joining us.
Awesome, it's great to be here.
Hell yeah. And across from me, I have Jesse Ferrara of your Kickstarter sucks.
Hello.
I have loved ykas for years. But also tell people a little bit about what YKS is because it's so germane to the show.
Well, thank you, you know it's uh. I guess it has morphed into something that is a tech skeptic show, you know, which you're familiar with, and it's it. It wasn't supposed to be that. It was supposed to be about crowdfunding. But what happens when we get sucked into these worlds. You know, you often find, you know, maybe there's some more here than I really thought. And such is the way of crowdfunding, because now it's it's mostly AI stuff, or it's you know, a little robot that spins around on a wheel and says how you doing or whatever. So uh so, mostly, okay, that was a bad example because obviously that's awesome and we all want that.
But there's so much of this.
There's a big overlap I guess, between bad tech and what's on our show.
And you got a lot of your start as well, was talking about just the shit that people were promising on crowdfunding campaigns. Yeah, I think that's what that's like.
It shares like a particular DNA with cees, which we were talking a little bit earlier before we got started, which is, hey, I remember this stuff from last year, and then you show up and it's not here, right yeah.
And also it's not anywhere. And that's what kickstarter is, right.
There's somebody who says, what if we did this, and you go, well, I don't know, man, I mean I guess try it, and they go okay, and then nothing happens after that at all, and the only record of it sometimes is our stupid.
Show saying how much it sucks, so so really doing the pure journalism there, it's anthropology as well that I you know, I don't want to sell it short but all right, so, oh my right, I have Henry Casey, electronics writer at CNN underscored Henry, thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
So a lot of your stuff is just you. You have one of the more honest jobs I would say of the people that we've had on so far, which is not meant to sound like an insult though it does, okay in the sense that you're just like, I'm gonna look at stuff like It's not like you're doing like a trend piece. It's like, I'm gonna look at some stuff that sounds or looks away.
Is it something that is either gonna be released and has a price or life to be likely to be released and has a price, but well, we're all afraid of tariff so we're not gonna give a price yet. Or is it really cool and you're gonna want to click on it? And I'm sorry that we're gonna say this as a concept that we're gonna tell you that upfront. Those are the three categories of what I do. But for mostly I'm proc reviews. Guy, I am we have a customer, we have an audience. It's like, oh, I want to get something that improves X, Y or Z. And that's how I get to not cover stuff that isn't going to help anybody or anything. And how I got to avoid talking about the Rabbit last year because it didn't have any dreamanness to anybody.
And you made a point before we got on as well. So the Rabbit r one for people that don't know, is this little box that promised to you could be like, oh, I need a McDonald and I need a chicken nugget from McDonald and then you talked into it and the nugget would appear. Except by the way and the launch of the Rabbit. When he tried to do this, it broke of all the shit to do, like a live demo of your very broken thing, and it turned out that behind the scenes all it was was triggering like these scripts. Nothing from Rabbit this year, but also nothing like Rabbit this year. No one has done a big cause I lie. No one's just come up with a fake thing than this selling, which is very disappointing. I was looking for some dog shit.
Yeah you normally in these times I find you know, we look to the helpers, and so I looked for will I Am and I found him and I was able to take a creepshot of him from really far away. So if that helps anybody, I'd be happy to share. But it doesn't seem like even will I Am had something. It was like a speaker thing or some kind of headphones, right.
Like even and speakers and a little bit of headphones with LG they had an event. I didn't get coded it last night. But yeah, they're doing a whole partnership.
That's great. I feel like, maybe I don't know, is maybe this is too cynical. I almost feel like we're good on speakers. I think maybe I have enough ways to like play music in my house and I probably don't need to iterate on that anymore. But yeah, these guys didn't get the message on that for sure. So Tom McKay, so it, bro, what are you doing here? What are you actually looking into? Because it seems like you might have a slightly different remit.
So I mostly cover enterprise technology, so I'm here mostly to cover know what there is of the B two B segment here and cybersecurity stuff I don't know. Yesterday I interviewed a guy, Brandon Lucca, who does his company called Efficient Computing or Efficient Computer. Uh it you know, dramatically lowers the power requirements of processing stuff.
Yeah, that doesn't I mean.
Uh, And I've spent a lot of time just wandering around the floor.
Uh.
The AI pavilion is baffling in harf Is that in the LVCC. Yeah, that's the that's a big LG one where they have I forget if it's LG's branding, but there's like one that's like the rebranding it is Affectionate Intelligence and it's just absolute dog shit.
Well does that mean?
Uh?
Well, from what I can see, there's like a big board you go in there, or a big TV when you go in there, and it's like playing CGI clips of like a family being like it's cold today? What should I cook? And the fridge starts talking. It's like wow, I the fuck I know? And it's like or like there's another clip that plays on it where it's like a girl like tossing a baseball and the Dad's like I need recommendations for TV and lo and behold the TV recommends baseball clips.
Well.
I love about this as well as the assumption that there are assumptions being made by people that have not talked to a person in some time. They're just like, they're just like, what the fuck did dads do with their daughters? Did they throw a ball? I guess what do I make?
Is like baby talking adults. It's it feels insane.
I'm sure we all walk up to the fridge and go, well, there's one thing in there. It's a pack of ham. I don't know if it's ten days or ten weeks old. Maybe I could make dinner with that. But also I don't know who is walking up to fridge and going like, man, I wish someone would tell me what to make with all this fee.
I wish the fridge would tell me don't eat that it's been there for seven days. But none of this does.
That, no, because that's an actual problem. Yeah, versus there's no Bachelor fridge. I did, however, see a Bachelor dish washer A dish so this is really.
Finn It's marketed as four batchelor.
It should be it's a five second dish washer, So I walked up and this is this is very me. I walked up and go all right, how much that four hundred bucks? I'm like okay, I'm like is it out here only in China right now? Coming next year? And I said, all right, can you show me? And he puts the plate in the I'm like, you put the dirty one. He's like, oh, I'm already doing this one. I'm like, well it's pretty short, and he just like stares there and goes, okay, well I'm going to put this one. And I'm like okay, so the clean one, and he goes I'm like, how long? Five seconds? Like great one, two, three, four, five, six seven. And the guy's just like, oh god, because no one's walked up and timed it. Yeah, And he just like looks at me like it just it's a dish. I'm like, no, this is great. It's for like like sad guys, right, and he just he goes, I sure, he's like this. This guy's already out timed the.
Miss Still it cleans a single plate at a time.
No, you can do like a few, but it actually looked like genuinely I was like I could see using this. But the reason I choose the bachelor thing is who is cleaning like three plates? Like it's like but also absolutely like this is like when you're making one set off one set, gentleman talking about myself and uh yeah, but what's weird was that's arguably one of the most useful things I've seen. Appliances are useful.
Yeah, like we've yeah, we figured out Okay, it's good when you wash the dish or you make the food or whatever. So like we're all on board with how to do that kind of stuff. So if they put a different screen on it, you're gonna get me to stop. I'll look at the new screen on the fridge.
I really do like all the AI screen stuff though, Like so it's just like they haven't worked out why screens are useful. Eth Yeah, that's also a problem.
I do in theory, like the idea of like tell me or I could make with this because I make the same sheet pan dish a lot, and if I could have a thing that could tell me, hey, who the new thing you could make with some of these ingredients. Just get one new thing.
But you're saying you already have the ingredients.
Yeah, what or like it could suggest hey, half of these ingredients, get this other thing, make this other dish something. They push it to be more creative with what you do because you think they're all taking over our imagination.
Correct, that's what the whole gimmick is.
AI is imagination that executives can buy an outsource human work to. Okay, that's that's the methods that nobody's saying about, like help me be a more adventurous call.
But it starts to telling you before you go to the store, though, right, you can't. There's no world where you have like you don't have like leaks in your fridge, and like what am I gonna do all these leaks? Like you fucking bought the leaks right now?
Yeah, there are leaks in the shield.
Okay, well you know what leaks are?
Good?
So bad? Example by me? Well I like them? Okay, that's all right, Well i'll see you later.
Then here is like helpful who doesn't feels like there's a team leak and like a team anti leak.
So I did see one thing I like though, and I think it confused them because so I found so you know those golf simulators where you knock the ball into a screen and it has like senses. They had one for baseball. Oh so it was all of these like Korean guys and I walk up, like are you doing and they're like already just like British guy. This guy doesn't know anything about the baseball or absolutely did so have you got partnerships with the KBO And they're like, oh uh, like does this work? Is this like hit tracks? So to explain some baseball tech for you, it's actually fucking cool if you go to like local bat in cages z cages here in Vegas just doing ads. They did not pay me, in fact I pay them, and they're very hard to schedule with sometimes. Anyway. What they have is a thing called hit tracks, so when you hit it, it sees the lolosty of the ball and like where you hit it and such, and this stuff's fairly easily available. The thing is it requires a natural bat in case you build around this. One is kind of like the golfing thing. It's like fifteen grand and they're like, hey you good bye one. I'm like no, no, no, but and I was like, this is the only thing I'd like to see. Yes, And they seem so happy. They seemed genuinely happy and then they really wanted to sell me when I was like, and then they seemed less happy. Are they trying to sell it to people or just like bars, they're trying to sell it to teams and and I assume, like dying looking British men right and sadly that it's very small market there. But that was really cool, and it's like, I did get this feeling walking around. I've spent the day in the Venetian expo hole, so the one right connected to the Venetian I did get this weird feeling. Though CS gets done dirty because most of CS is so fucking boring. It's but not in a bad way. It's like more efficiency driving, battery technology, mobility for this, like and urine sensors and such, and I wanted to make if I saw urine, and naturally I'm just like a photo. I'm like, oh wait, this is useful and it's good to look at p Yeah, I have to I love looking at the piss Yeah.
But then you gave me one of the p test kits. I haven't used it yet, yeah, I did. I gotta see how my pots states are.
I guess I was walking out of a CS once and I saw like an ai semen. It's like and I really want to walk up and be like, hey, do you want to Can I have a go?
There is? Actually I saw a booth that's like selling like a I guess it's a machine that like measures your spur motility orso. And you know, I don't think they were doing products on site, but whose well I didn't see If there's a little booth in the corner.
Yeah, can I just hey, I got some with me. But also I did see a few things that really bothered me. And there was one where they had this VR glasses thing and it said a new hope for autism and dyslexia. And I'm gonna be talking about this a few times on this show. Move a VR and I walk over. I'm like, hey, so have you talked to the FDA about this? And the one goes, what's that? Which is a good start, and I'm like, okay, well, they're the ones you'd have to work with to make this legal in America. Oh, we're not a medical device. I'm like, oh, okay, so how is this good for autism? Well, it's great for autism and dyslexia. I just paused. My guy so I have someone in a fan with the autism. So I started getting a little bit pissed off, and I was like, Okay, do you think those are the same things? And sheid, no, they're different. How pause again, I go, what clinical trials have you done? Well, we've done clinical trials. I'm like, where where France, I'm like, oh, what are you talking about? And just to be clear, the classic thing that autistic people love is putting new things on and new experiences. And this thing was by the way you put the glasses on and you had to move a character through letters to like do something. Okay, uh huh. And let me just be clear. This person who I talked to clearly had not been asked a single question in their life, because they were very confused that I kept saying, what do you How does this help autistic people? And they're like, they do they play the game. And I just want to say, if you were on this floor and you have anything to do with autism and I find you, I'm putting you on this fucking show and putting your assd on fucking blast because it's disgusting.
I have noticed not through Kickstarter, well some through Kickstarter, but the impulse to make it easy on devices or products or whatever that are ostensibly for people who need help in various areas. Is like, that's tempting, right yea, to say like, oh cool, somebody's trying to figure something out. But a lot of times there's so much worse than just the normal jackof tech that it feels bad to evaluate them at all.
Wasn't this the thing that Lena Connan you were talking out ed about, how like, oh, we're in a new area of technology. We want we want less criticism, we want we want more protection, less scrutiny.
And this one is just a bit And you're right, Jesse, there's a lot of stuff here where it's just like, oh, yeah, we're helping people, so give us a break. Okay. Now, I talked with Ben Woolf who's a friend of the show, and he sent a quote through about this company said where I think they're utterly full of shit. Is the other testimonial on the website movie via The principles of the experience offered by movear is to address the visual constraints found, according to the TVPS four manual in diagnosed learning disorders such as dyslexia, ADHD and DCD. This is frankly crap. Dyslexia is enormously variable, and immersive environments are nonsensical. Quote treatment. He's doing little air quotes around that. ADHD has no reason to be mechanicalistically vulnerable to this kind of intervention. The point is that none of these people talk to any fucking scientists, and the tech media needs to go and harass them because you should not be able to come onto this floor and feel safe. Okay, I don't mean physically from criticism. There we go because it just really bothers me. And a lot of what's in the expo hare in the Venetian is this stuff. There's so much health stuff. It's we were talking about yesterday. It's disgusting. Oh you guys love health. I no, I want to diet, like just we will kill you.
In like you've been asked like, oh, talk about something you're excited and happy about with tech, that.
The baseball thing and the workout, the any workout shit. But you post you're like, yeah, good jack, that stuff is the stuff.
I'm like, I'm using the supernatural VR thing right that's actually getting my heart rate up and I see the char whatever its suitable alternative to going to the gym. It's to avoid the weirdos. It's there is good stuff out there to get healthy intech, but it's the the Venetian floor is really condensed and too tight to make any sense of unless you're a team of twenty five people, and the Verge doesn't have a twenty five person health team.
They got Victoria's song one of the best. She's christ she's one of the best. Or yeah, she's got one of the single best. She's like the remaining wearable reporter. She's so good. And now here's the thing. I'm just gonna read you what this company, wishtails Ai had on that thing is so empowering creators and consumers. With multimodal AI, the iPhone turned anyone into a photographer. Wishtails empowers everyone to be a creator. I could not make heads or tails of what this company did. I do not know. They just the music art automations create multimodal AI videos in mins, in twenty eight languages, and it just says ignite multimodal creativity. Imagine if they had any quality control.
I mean, this just sounds like stuff the iPhone already does.
Yeah, but also you create multimodal video. No you don't, we model you fucking to these people.
The iPhone is mostly single modal, right, so that's like a huge because if you do more of the models then won't that be like better and stuff?
Yeah, you know, like a hundred models going right now. That's insane. It's like really cool. I'm spinning them up.
I don't believe that's possible.
Anything is possible if you lie. So Tom, you mean looking and surprise stuff? Is there anything good? Is there any any joys?
I mean for the most I mean like this is mostly you know, consumer electronics. I've been going around, like there's a lot of interesting drones that are intended for I guess like the B to B market. Interesting how like industrial scanning and stuff that's interesting. I mean the big themes this year are AI and robotics. I think, uh, there's just a lot of sony robots. I mean it's funny though, so I forget what it's called. But I saw this one drone that's like a I don't know, tetra, don't know the big uh the sphere with like I can't remember the name of the shape. But yes, like a spear and it rolls around and then it can also fly. But I was talking with the guys that made this, and I was like, all right, so you know, what's what's the application of this And he's like, actually, we're here to you know, get ideas. That's what the potential applications are. Like, you built this before.
Coming up with a business plan. Yeah, we're pre we have pre reason.
We just I mean the only thing they had was like they gave me a brochure where it was like a little diagram of a pile of rocks and uh they like it just said search and rescue and then it had a picture of a tube and it's like not real inspection. And I'm like, okay, I guess if you have a really big tube that you need inspected. I love all them down large tubes.
I hope there's so many corners.
Tube guys are eating good this year's cube issues.
I'm glad my tube's going to be sorted by the end of this trip. This is a bad location to be. I also got this At every CS I do look up names. I have a lot of fun looking at names. Everyone called skip up and the AI spot stethoscope And when I showed this to Phil, a resident safety expert. He made this Noise EDGEAI Technology application Primary Screening by AI for heart and lung health abnormalities. So I'm gonna stop there before I get angry. What everyone is doing is they just like, we had an algorithm before, and we are just saying AI because otherwise they will realize it's the same thing from four years ago. And in fact, I feel like the theme right now for CS is dang, we did this a year ago.
And a lot of it is we had an algorithm and now we're slapping an additional layer on top best like chat GPT. So basically it does the exact same thing it did before, except you have an inaccurate robot relaying what's happening.
And that's the thing you can fine dumb guys do not understand stuff for free. You can just get a bloke Becau's just like, I think, what okay, all right?
Yeah, yeah, I mean I read into one that was like a like AI enabled like scuba diver kit with like the dive watches and stuff, and it's like, yeah, I could just like I could just like swim over in a panic to the other diver and point at the watch and be like, oh, what does this mean?
And I missed. I was really upset that I didn't hit the floor yesterday because there was apparently a speech in the Web three tokenization fintech section just called metaverse and quantum ai. Oh my god, I'm so mad.
I we're still using the word metaverse in twenty twenty five.
I love.
I never understood why anyone fell for that shit in the first place, but the fact that some people are still chasing it is wild to me.
I'm also going to give a shout out to the only good booth here, the hang Joe Hyoshi Lighting Cone Limited. Just a big son that said Wooden Lamb Nice. I just loved that because it's like everyone else is just I was just making shit up. It's like they I've got a fucking lamp you want to Oh no, sorry. I finally found it the thing that I love the most. So I walked up to a booth where the sign said bridging Massage and Purification for your pet. And I walked up and I'm just showing everyone right now. It is an air purifier with what looks like a spike on the end. Oh yeah, my dog would like that, that's what they told me. Yeah, because I walked up and said, hi, so I just was reading your sign. What does that mean? She's oh, of course, very ready for the question, alarmingly so. And because will you see the pet wall kind of massage themselves, I'm like, on the spike and they will just so the dog just just does this, and she's like yeah, and we have a lower one for smaller dogs. I'm like, right, so the dog just shoves itself.
Well, have you ever seen that with cows that they have, like the big brushes on the farms that the cows walk up to and scratch their back.
I've never seen a dog do this. I've never seen a dog massage.
Do you attach spikes to your whilst yes.
Of course right, but I've never seen a dog well no, those are fither and paling. But it's a prince of purchase situation. We'll get to it later. But it's I've never seen a dog massage themselves against something anyone's seen. My dog will come in and kind of rub his back on the couch, not on the spike if the couch had a spike, you know. But it's also the spike is coming down. Yeah, I don't know. And this is a big booth as well. These people have spent tens of thousands of dollars being like, well, I've got to get the dog spike air purifier? Is that?
I don't know? Have you?
Have you talked about that a lot, like the actual economics of putting on a booth, like sponsoring something.
He probably should have looked that up. Yeah, what does it take to show up? I mean tens of thousands of dollars, it's like one hundred thousand dollars for main hol Yes, absolutely, wow, And it's crazy. It's like there's so much stuff that's theoretical yeah or pre idea like like I don't know, and it's just so strange. But so, Tom, did you see anything you like yet? Did you see anything good?
Good? I like the massage chairs.
I nearly thought that every year though, the massage chairs fucking rock. They go they scam guys who are going to see yes to the first time, like, oh yeah it's four thousand dollars, we'll there for two and it cost them three hundred dollars And.
Yeah, it kind of like locked me into the chair. There was like panels that compressed me and I couldn't leave it nearly fell asleep. That was great.
Yeah, anything else.
Uh, can we get back to me?
No, but it's fine if you don't have an on stuff.
Because I didn't, you know, I saw, you know, some robots that were cool. There's this one company, I think be Bot, that was working on a robotic turtle for like environmental research.
Sorry, that sounds really good. Sorry, I thought you meant a member of It looks like a turtle, don't.
I don't know. I don't know why it needs to look like a turtle, but it but it apparently swims and everything, and you can launch it into the sea and it does it somehow does environmental reasons When we kill When.
We kill all the turtles, dude, global warming, We're just gonna replace them with just.
Some post apocalyptic future. This will be like Level one enemies, just swarms of like little robot turtles. Yeah.
Yeah, right Now I have to kill the rats in the Vegas in the Vegas at queducts to Vegas sewers.
Yeah.
I go down there with kill a fee rats. Then there's a giant one and I have to run out to the cops and they shoot me Jesse, anything good.
I well, I was wondering. I was thinking maybe Tom would bring these guys up. I accidentally got sucked into the Soul Semiconductor.
Booth that yet.
Okay, so these guys basically make the most baller semiconductors you've ever seen in your life.
Sake.
I I walked it. It's a pretty big booth. They did a cool thing where it was like they had some really like uh, post apocalyptic messaging almost on the walls, but I think in like a cool way, like an environmental type of way. The thing they had on the sign at the top was like like birth does not guarantee six something like really you saw it.
Wow, It's like it's almost a unity, like it's a people empowerment. Yeah yeah, and like people are meming the Okay.
I want to meet the guy you can swear like you can say fucking shit and bowls and all the other ones. H I love that as well, because I want to meet the post thing reads then and goes fuck well damn. Other than Jesse. I thought it was great.
So I walk immediately in and it's like a super serious guy and he's like, hey, how's it going?
And I was like, hey, what's up?
You know, what are you guys doing, and like immediately looking around and realizing there's nothing here that I know what it is. So but he was saying like, hey, we make all the LED backlights for like all of the TVs.
I'm like, hey, I actually actually useful.
Great, you know, or they do like, you know, most a lot of cars, new cars now especially have the the LED headlights, tail lights and all that kind of stuff. So clearly they do that stuff too. That's great. I can't really make a joke about LED headlights. So I kind of got stuck in a conversation with him for about ten or fifteen minutes. But if you're just waiting to make a joke, I just truly trying to get out of there with yeah anything as just trying to do something I didn't. I almost said like, oh, so you're the guy I should be mad at when I you know, the lights are really bright on the road at night. But it looked like he wasn't even willing to, like I wasn't gonna go.
Over at all. You'd just be like no, And then he scanned.
My badge, Ah, he's going to send you an email.
I had to run away really fast from the badge. The good thing is that with me, especially today, like I'm fully energetic. So I'm just walking around with a black mask and my eyes just fucking bulging out my head and i walk really fast because I've done this show so many times, I just I know exactly the route. So you just see this high speed British man in a Jensen hung style leather jacket, just fucking making a beeline for you, taking three photos, going what's this? And it's I actually apologize to anyone I've.
It sounds like a two dollars Horrd game on Steam.
But it becomes a hen Ti one lights out Henry. What is so? Is that anything you've.
Liked as much as it can be the negative person in any conversation actually.
Have three So that's three more than most tcl is. Do.
They have these next paper devices. They've then Matt screens and stuff. Now they're doing something really actually great with it. I think I expect Apple will have their own version of in two to three years. This thing is the next paper eleven plus tablet, which basically has a mode where it switches into basically an e ink like screen mode, which will a incredibly good battery life. Probably be let your regular Android tablet become an e reader looking thing has a Matt screen device. You know how Apple's got the iMac and the iPad. Now with Matt screens, past that technology onto an iPhone screen, put this mode on it, and they're going to have battery life better than they've ever had.
And then.
I'm not a huge fan of suitcase turntables. There's good reason. I think Crosley's sort of ruined the idea of a two kase certain table. But Victrola has one that has Hilariously, I think it's has lighting in the front that.
You can sync up to the music. And it's seventy five bucks, which called the Journey Glow I believe.
And it's like, if it's Victrolla is a trustable brand, I feel like in sound. So it's like a a s Kate ceranin table that doesn't ruin your records. And they played Daft Punk on it. It sounds pretty good. And then I told you about this earlier. Lenovo's got a think Book plus Gen sixteen laptop, mouthful of a name, but the laptop screen raises it basically rolls up inside so you can give them more vertical but in the same size. It's your normal laptop. I didn't get to actually demo it because I had to run, but like, that's the laptop changing in a great way, which we don't say that often in this tech reviewer industry that I get to play in.
Oh well, yeah, it feels kind of strange having someone who remembers stuff they like, though.
I mean, actually, I'd be remiss not to bring this up. Some of the stuff I liked here isn't even like electronics, Like, well, half the stuff here is ant even electronics. It's like the consumer product show. But there was this one company they were the most popular booth at this event last night that was selling like little metal strips that you are advertising, little metal strips that you put on your nose to like sleep better at night, and they work fantastically better that I like, I've got sleep apne I assume eighty percent of people that go see s of sleep apia, So I mean it was it was wild. There's like twenty people lined up and this guy was like doing his like carny thing of like gluing these two people's noses.
Well, this has been such a wonderful episode. We'll start with you, Tom Tom. Where can People find You?
People can find me on x dot com at the Tom Zone, or they can find me at Blue Sky at Don't Judge Me, Captured two dot Besky dot Social.
He is kat Ted Jesse, where can People find You?
Your Kickstarter sucks is the podcast and go off Kings' is the twitch stream. Jesse it's I think it's jessefar dot com on Blue Sky and yell the links are from there.
And Henry, I write primarily for CNN Underscored, which you can open instantly just by typing in underscore dot com. I also have a newsletter and all sorts of stuff which is accessible if I'm Henry tkacy dot net. That's Henry tca s e y dot net. And also that's my luseky name too.
And as we close off this blook of the episode, I just want to say something really quick before we go to an ad break. Just want to say Henry brought up daft punk. Daft Punk have not made a good album since Discovery. Human after all is dogshit. It is repeated bits, and I thought the soundtrack of Tron was kind of boring. Come at me. I'm sick of hearing about daft punk being good anytime. Recently Human after all pissed me off so much. Anyway, coming up after this ad break, we're gonna have even more wonderful people from CES. And if Doppunk is listening, try not looping, Try doing something interesting with your electronic music. You and me, doph Punk. I'm sick of it. I just counted us back in for an episode and I went three two one, and I just want to be clear to the listeners that I did two three four, I did four fingers up. My brain is coming out of my goddamn ears. I am dying, but I'm joined by amazing people. Nevertheless, ed on Gwaiso Junior is to my right, of.
Course, Hello, how's everyone doing?
Jesse for of course your kickstarter sucks. Hello, And we have the other one, Mike Hale from YKS, who is fresh from a tech company called Cole's Tom McKay of course from it Brow and we're back talking about CS. But ed on Giso Junior, you've been on the main the main hall, the main floor. How was how was that?
I mean, no, you would you be surprised if I told you everything? Is powered by AI. Now every single thing, please elaborate. You know I refrigerators.
Okay, to what ends?
Well, you know you you need something that recognizes what time of day you decide to have certain types of coffee and how much of that to keep.
And morning, right morning, right morning? Okay?
You know.
Freaking chica want to have it at lunch, you know?
Or whoa So you know there was a legal text, right, But one that I was really interested in is this company that is saying, hey, look, the future of technology it's minimalism. We want to reconnect you with human nature. And the way that we're going to do that the way we're going to get you off your screen. We're going to give you a headset that you have to keep on for nine hours a day, and it will give you uninterrupted access to your artificial intelligence suite of arapists productivity assistance.
With human is with AI. Yes, but that's.
So that you can reconnect with you in nature, and it will give you notifications by calling you. It will forward you to therapists that you talk to, friends that you talk to powered by Claude almost exclusively.
That sounds like something you pick up in the tutorial. Level of like BioShock.
Yeah, yeah, you know, this is this is the tutorial. Is this a big company or no, they are connected with this other company. This is a this is a side venture of another company.
Because it was the main hole. So the LVCC is it's remarkable because it's it's so expensive to be that, like we're talking about the economic cella. You're talking one hundred grands through the dorm show. Yeah, and it's like, so we're doing one hundred grand for this thing that is just barely conceptual. Yeah.
That's also the thing, as they emphasize, most of these things do not exist yet they have demos that the demo did not work when I was there, what happened, what happened, couldn't just couldn't even hear me, couldn't connect to the internet, couldn't recognize any command whatsoever. They were like, well, you know, see, actually the thing that happened is one of our guys took the mic home, so it actually works really well.
Come back with it. I have no idea that didn't swing on it. He gets nervous, you know, he's playing with it, you know.
But yeah, so this idea here is uninterrupted access to an AI so that you can reconnect to your human nature, which is to talk to a bunch of assistants.
Did they explain why this reconnections?
Yeah? Why would you? Don't you look at your screen? Okay, so you talk to your microphone though, yeah, and that's different. Yeah, it's very different. So you're no dopamine loop. Okay, so you're looking at you you're not looking at a screen, right, but you all talking to the microphone. Are you just staring into the abyss y?
No, you're just walking around daily life, just like it's just like doing something else he likes. But then he was, you know, then they also you know, admit that. Oh yeah, also to ask you to get on your phone a lot, you know, way ahead.
Of you already on my phone.
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a movie, except she's constantly remind you.
It's like, hey, remember to go on this website of buy Gibbs. Hey, go take a picture of this. I can analyze it and put it at a search engine. Hey, go on this discord channel. Hey, you know, talk to another you know, always constant notifications to.
Get back on your phone. But it's about getting off your phone, right, And that's the thing. Katie the top of the Severe Business Inside have said this last year very thing. It's like, I love my phone. It's where all my stuff is. Yeah, I like I'm on my phone because I don't know, I don't have to look at the real world. And who wants to do that.
The ultimate use case for the voice activated technology, right has always been being in the car. Because we're in America. Everyone drives a car. It's the most dangerous thing to do, except for to try to put your drink on a side table.
Okay, Jesse, I'm bost on my fucking podcast, Jesus Christ. I just I just a party foul and it went out and it went down like perfectly as well. So it's like a really like it's a real.
Splute classic cartoon spill.
Well, well, well, it's really not your fault because the side table has a slight rate.
It's like a there's a slight raised area in the middle of the side table.
I mean, yeah, I'm like, I like have a knife out and I'm just pointing to. When you think about it, it's the table's fault. Yeah, the table that Yeah, that's right. We're all met at the table obviously.
Yeah, that's right, Okay, that's why you should have picked up a Semen smart table from.
A smart table. Did I wish that was real? I wish there was a smart table a few years ago. It was just a table the vessel table of course. Thank you the beautiful ball tend to Phil brought and I say it to clean up my mess? May I have another place? I'm drinking something over the Laha, which is Phill's Black Blood of the Earth with some vodka and Irish cream. Thank you Phil. Anyway, what were we talking about, ed so?
Oh yeah, And the name of the thing is it's Italian for human nature. I'm forgetting this human nature natural Jesus Christ. Do you see what else? What else was it?
I feel like finding out my coming home and finding my kid is fucked up a bunch of shit, Like like what else did you see that? I mean?
That was that was the one that pulled me in because they had a giant banner that said AI people underneath above it. Oh good, And I was like, oh okay, so you know, I walked up and it's like, well, where are the AI people? And then it's like, you know, they have five or they have five phones on a table and then another five us were some iPads and then like they're in here and you.
Just put this on and they talk to you, but they don't.
Yeah, this is something I noticed that all the AI like this year seems to be marketed is like AI for people, Like like they're like because it's finally reaching a point where they're trying to create It feels like they're trying to create the market for AI stuff by forcing it on people. Yes, and in doing so they kind of have to reassure them that this is not like.
You think it is.
Yeah it is, and it's like some of it's really bad.
Yeah, it's so funny as well, because I'm really like the pig that they would sell slop to, Like I love my gizmos and dudeads and apps and such. If there was anyone to sell ship to, it's me. And it's just not fun. It's boring. Like no use case.
Yeah, there's there's still no use It's like a fucking whole industry built around finding the use case the technology, and it just doesn't exact the entire show I met with Coals and great cases for AI like if you if you want say like a you know a larger than normal type of hoodie sweater and they might not have it. But you speak to an AI agent and it will tell you to breathe.
I did walk over to important. I walked over to a booth earlier that said AI agent. And this is kind of me being a dickhead, but I spent what kind of agent? Because uh, I'm like, oh, good, so what model chat GPT? And like, great, so how is this agentic? He goes I you talk to him like that just sounds like chat GPT because yeah, but it's an agent. I'm like, how he just looks at me terrified.
I don't understand how everybody's building these industries and businesses and stuff around GPT subscriptions. Yes, it's like you're hooked into like the chagp api and you're building a business on top of that.
How.
I don't understand how.
And then the magic a venture.
I mean, I forget uh what economists I wrote about for uh that said this, But it was like the idea that like AI is almost now like a tax on on like the rest of the tech industry, Like it's like a software tax where you need to pay to have it in your product because everybody else does, and all it really does is is suck money out of you know, everything else.
And it's great though, So I'm going to assume you saw nothing useful, Like.
It's actually really funny because I was walking towards something that's an AI agent, kind of like the Promised Land when you hit me up and you said come back.
Did you guys see the toaster where you can print uh photos of your loved ones.
On pieces that is actually real? Did you really see that?
We've actually yeah, you got me.
It's in the menu. You remember that we're gonna do a few miracle Yeah, we're building up to the final episode where I'm going to do something called the menu. Hope everyone joins men lock the doors.
I think also the thing with the sunnatural Omana, whatever the hell you know? The Italian name is similar to your point about making markets. I feel like this one is trying because they are like, the end goal is to be able to make it connect to apps for you, so you could go to your mom's house, you could order movies or order in and it's like okay. So I feel like they're trying to pretend as if or they're trying to train people into accepting the discoppointment that comes with insisting agents or around the corners exactly.
No, you're right, so AI agents are meant to be these autonomous things and then never are.
But that's what we talked about that other episode. They're not, but they keep misnaming things or presenting bullshit. So then you know, I think this is part of the training process where it's like, Okay, get with.
The training customers.
Like it feels like they're basically just like prepping people to have Netflix scream at either.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is a this is a this is pedantic, but like, this is the thing that really drives me nuts.
Is is, like you were saying, training people to expect certain things or to hear words and actually imagine something else, Like algorithm is something that now means a bunch of different things, where it's like now people like people who I think for the most part share our mindset sort of a skeptical mindset towards tech and and all that kind of stuff. When we hear the word algorithm, like our back gets up immediately because we think, oh, that's bad. But it's like algorithm is not even bad. It's just it's like a thought process and everything you like saying database, yeah, yeah, right, exactly, everything has an algorithm in it. You're using an algorithm when you make a decision. But now it's become it's got this text stink grafted on to it, and now we have to turn away. So eventually we'll go away from AI, right, and it'll be like there's no algorithms in this at all, And it's like, well, I don't know, how's that possible?
It's smart. Well, It's what I like about that is it's also describing a bunch of things that are not problems. Yeah, Like no one is like, oh I had to go if it's my fucking mom's house and not to another movie that took I was like, oh fuck it, that took me several seconds, Like that is a solved problem. I'm not none of the things they've just gotten. Well, how are you going to order dinner? I don't know, I've never done that before.
Also, the idea that like if you and your spouse, like let's say you and your spouse like take a long time to set on a movie, that a robot like interjecting in the middle of the conversation. It's gonna speed this up.
It reminds me of one of my favorite click hole pieces. Which of my garbage sons are you? And they're like, yeah, we named one of our sons Launce and Blake. And the reason they did that was because they picked two names they didn't like and named that for one son, which I think is kind of addicative of the Consumer Electronics show entirely. It's like, we can't come up with a good idea, so we chose five bad ones. So what anything else you see over there?
I saw something where they were scanning your face to present what your internal health looked like as an interactive city where organs, what your organs, they interacted with each other were depicted on the screen as if they were a.
Little cells walking around us.
No, it's literally just a city my doctor has been wanting me to do, telling me it's like.
Hey, that abandoned part of town, you gotta get that checked out.
Red. You're in a red state, just like your legs just fucking fallen off. Deliver and it explained they say, in a red state. I'm not saying I'm not saying it's a problem other than the fact that the governance might not be so big on the social services. Yeah, we actually get vouchers for those, so it's not I mean I get I get mine from every.
Time she asked to scan my face that I just felt like I was being asked to put my skull up to a measuring device.
It was just sit away from me.
I thought you were going to say that it scanned, and it just went no no.
Every time it's like please, no, no, no, just an oh wow, you know, would you step to the side. You mentioned the waight here? Yeah, but what else?
Come on? There must be a thing I.
You know, I spent some time trying to look at There's a lot of virtual twin digital twin stuff in manufacturing and optimizing industrial operations, and this health system was, uh was offshoot of this virtual twin thing where you know, there were there were two or three boots set up new to each other. Their idea is, if we can scan you rea set up your virtual twin, you can tweak with it, you can experiment with it. We'll give you more insight into you. There were AI medical assistance and AI caregivers kind of extending off what we were talking about the other day, where it's like we are going to give you very colorful, detailed and graphically designed data and convince you to data. You know a lot of it. It seemed to be basic metabolic.
Stuff, the stuff you could get likely already have.
Yes, right, but if you buy into you know, this product or this application, buy into the ecosystem again, then you'll be able to gain more insight into your your stress or into concerning health.
Next time you see one of these companies, can you just ask a very simple question, what am I meant to do with all this data? Be healthy? Okay?
It metabolic health by scanning your nose?
These ones are different, these ones? Yeah that no, not that that's insane, that would never happen.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yes, isn't that basically phrenology?
Yes?
In fact, I mean you know, yesterday I saw calipers that was like, well, we are not a medical device, but if you let us scan your skin, not if you're black, because we don't have the technology for that. But if you let us scan your skin, we can tell what your blood sugar is, we can tell what a host of other you know, metabolic indices are for you, and we can determine what you stress is. You know, whether you are eating correctly. What you need to do to reind it back in?
Well, this is that's so sorry, that's what you said is a huge problem. I mean that's like that's.
Currently does not support black people.
That's yeah, insane. Microsoft Connect Baby, there was a connect on the floor, which I don't know if you saw. Why well, because why not? We demoed a well so this we what is that?
The court one the app there was like an abic court thing where you like could ball ball up with some people in we sports.
It wasn't it actually wasn't that good. So I thought, as an outsider, I always thought.
See a snowboard game and it tests your depression levels.
We've never had readings this high before. Your score is wellness, we are calling your mother.
It was so it's just a big TV or well it was a big gaming monitor, so already we're I thought. Ce S was like, this is where the newest, biggest TVs are, And that's true. I don't know where they are, but they're probably somewhere I see. I mean they're in the Las Vegas Convention cent Yeah.
Yeah, there were some big us.
There's DV.
So this instead of being a TV, this was an eighty five inch gaming monitor. Okay, yeah, yeah, like crazy positive reaction to what I assumed was basically an impossible thing to use, because even like a forty inch TV in front of your face on the desk is like crazy.
Ye yeah, this is not a desktop. This is like but why was sorry?
I use a fifty inch screens like you are and a half in front of my BA you are crazed. I have to have to have windows at like one hundred and fifty percent zoom.
My ex videos corner.
Tom is laying down on the floor dangling over it. So it's really huge for a monitor. But also, if you want an eighty five inch thing, just get a TV. If you're gonna play console stuff on it, just get a TV. You don't need the super high refresh rate. And it's five K, it's not eight K. If you're gonna do something stupid, make it eight K. It makes no sense. Anyways. They seem like perfectly nice people, but it's a five K eighty five inch monitor and they had to demo it. They had like these little skis on the ground that I stepped on to dutifully, and I played an Xbox Connect game modded to run off of like a little Tashiba laptop that was plugged. It wasn't a fucking little first of all, it was my guy kept getting messed up because they put the wood on the on the ski slopes, which is like, why would there be wood on those downslope?
Dude?
This is a really high on the depression score, but why would you have that? Can we talk about the thing though, like, so, so you were bad at the ski game, we've established that.
I don't think that's like that's what he said, that saying it's the worst debated narrative.
I don't know if I believe it, but it was.
Yeah, it was the demo, this gaming monitor, but using technology that's like fifteen years old.
Didn't they just play an xpokes game?
I don't know in the same uh kind of area.
There was like a I tried on like an eyeglass thing or whatever, and it was like an Android app or something that was like nine by sixteen on like a display, and it was very it was cropped vertically and stuff.
It looked very bad.
But it was just like, you know.
It's to Ed's point, why would you Okay, you're going to spend a ton of money, and it's a slush fund for the executive. Is okay, that's fine, have a good time or whatever. Why would it not be like, why wouldn't it not be like a finished product at any point in the thing?
Yeah, I just don't. It feels like, just so, if you're demo ing a monitor, why not get something that looks good in this start to play?
I think one thing I've been realizing and I didn't actually realize, is the case most of these things do not seem to be finished, and everyone's fine with that. I would have I actually like would look. I loved standing next to people and listening to them as they dealt with a fully unfinished product and be like.
Oh well, I mean, it feels like a lot of this stuff is like ostensibly supposed to be a preview of what's coming, but the what's coming depends on whether anybody pays attention to their booth.
Yeah, so I just pardon me for interrupting here on my podcast. I was looking through my pictures of things that had taken pictures of today, otherwise known as the photos app on my phone, and I found this thing called Alisa, Your Choice, Your Companion, and just showing everyone. It appears to be like some sort of horrifying metal face you put you and has some sort of AI companion. But I didn't read any of the highlighted characteristics, which, by the way, is what it says, and you go. It's a speaks your way, instantly, mimics and plays any voice you love, big promise, expressive and natural, sinks facial expressions perfectly with her speech and based on this image, No it does not. I want to fuck her.
I was just gonna say, I already predict a primary market.
Well, Jesse, you're about to regret saying that behaves different personalities. Yes, it behaves different personalities.
There is a surprise from the back of attention to detail on stuff that's written.
Well, there is some detail you wouldn't love, from a playful lolly to a confident bus lady, confident boss lady. I could see myself. Yeah, well, the lollipid much smart with a memory powered by advanced day I that remembers and adapts more customized service in replaceable silicon facial masks.
You just got like a Oh, so it's a physical mass too, Yeah, but wait, is this just like a head that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm showing back Sophia and we're bringing back.
And this is tring your back body heart. So for people who are at C yes, I think you mentioned this before. The best ship you can find is on the fringes. You need to go to the back. You need to go to back and find the guy who's like Wooden Lamp, Like, the only honest guy at CS is the guy with And there was one there was one that just said Felix is hot. That's true, it is true. And I also love the names that power cube, semi ink, potential convergence smart Oh I need that.
I need that.
And there's a whole Kurzakhstan thing. Empower your innovations with like active polymers. Actually that sounds real. Manage your neck, shoulders and back through acupressure, massage and moxibustin. I fucking every time I walk around the show, I just see ship and I'm like, what do you did? You?
Did you see the portable air conditioner you wear around your neck?
It just like otherwise known as a fan.
Last air at your ears.
Yeah, that's a fan, we have those.
But you you wear a fan around your neck? Huh? Yes?
Hey, a fan is not gonna give you tenonitis.
So I don't I have that already. I have that. I've had that since I was a child. Every moment is pain for me. So that's why we hit them. Yeah, so within this AI stuff, did you find the same thing as me, where it's just no one really knows what they're talking about, and when you ask them questions, they go chat GPT and if you ask them another question, they start having a panic attack or it.
Seems a little frustration with asking why like the AI, And I'm like, well, it's because, like I'm trying to figure out if your it's generative bullshit or if it's an actual thing underneath.
And when I'm talking to like industry experts, like analysts or like people that like are like has like trade associations and stuff, I get the strong sense that it's frustrating for them too, because they're being asked to weigh in on this market that's so nebulous and like and like it's impossible to tell whether any of this is actually going to pay off.
Like it's just insane to me. We're like I was into this shit, Like my soul is being ripped away.
There's something for that. If you go to the convention centers for they put the soul back into you.
Oh yeah, actually you should.
You should check out the demo for this human nature thing I was talking about. You know, you can talk to Athena, which is like the the wellness uh a ip boons a terrible.
I like this. I like the soul cube idea. The thing that CS hasn't really gotten into yet is like crystals and energies. We need to bring that.
I actually wonder how far you could go just making up ship.
Get credits for how clean your soul is credit.
Social yeah, soul based social credit system.
I just think that I think that that's what pisses me off. This obviously some quasi fraulture that thing. Where is the real fraud? Where are the people? It's just like, yep, it's the soul cube.
Do you ever see those guys who make those devices that are like like just measurers for like various body ship It's like this the pseudo.
Science right right right yeah, yeah, and they still.
Like the e meters or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, why aren't they here?
I actually get scientif booth or yeah, ghost hunting technology like your whole.
Ghost's Probably they'll insist that CS is haunted.
Y honestly, I want to do that one.
Yeah, that's what the product demo fails are like. Actually, this is a good thing.
The ghost is telling me you should invest forty million dollars.
It's never done that. Yeah, Tam Tom, give me your phone right now. The ghost needs to see your idea, what's your what's yours?
The ghost wants to scan your badge, shut your email address. Maybe.
Yeah, it's that's the thing, Like, I don't mind if someone's just obviously scamming, Like, yeah, I'm a ghostbuster. I'm a ghostbuster. I'm with the ghostbusters and that's what I do here at CES. We spend one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in ghostbusting and if it breaks, you just go, you kind of ghost that's what you need us.
Yeah, I think in reality, the real the really answer. I think maybe you knowing more about this than me. Probably somebody knows more than I do about something, although it's hard to imagine. I feel like the the reason that there's not like the level one gimmick grift guy on the floor is because, like with everything else, there's so many levels of detachment. Like you have a problem and you want to call somebody and yell at them about it or get it fixed, I guess if you want, But you can't because the person you talk to is not empowered to do anything for you.
And that's on purpose.
And now there's an extra layer of AI stuck in between you and even that person. But the people who show up on the floor, just like when you ask what is this chat GPT, that's literally all they know because the guy who makes the decision is so far away.
And so it does not work. It doesn't work either, right, Yeah, But I think actually what I'm gonna stop doing is anytime I see AI, now I'm just going to replace the word with ghost. Yeah, okay, ghost, just like oh we have ghosts the machine. I might actually just stop peaking asking people about it, and I'll be like, is chech ghost? What's the ghost to? Just like that's chet GPT? Yeah, the ghost? The spirit? How do you get the spirit out? What?
Why would you want to spirit out? The spirit does all the thinking for you.
Just walk over. I'm very haunted. How are you gonna help? I generally don't do bits with any of the people here because just to be clear, the reason that no one should and some listeners have brought this up like oh, you should go and like yell at them. The poor fuckers who are on the floor. These are PR people, sometimes external PR people, or they're just like a marketing person who, to Jesse's point, is not empowered to answer a real question, and they have to deal with everyone at CS, and fifty percent of the people at CS are trying to make partnerships with other people that can't tell you what their products do. And it's like, oh, these and I admit, with the the company that claimed to like be a new hope for autism and dyslexia, I got a little heated, which is why I walked away. And do you want here for this? They claimed that they're smart glasses would help both dyslexia and autism, and my experience with that is that's bullshit. But it's yeah, there's a reason that you can't really put the boots these people, And I actually think it's deliberate. They want to put a layer of abstraction between them and the responsibility for their thing actually doing anything. So they've got a fucking marketing person and these people are there, and they're working like ten hour days doing like just standing there and if it's a bad show, you're just standing alone. Well, the marketers are the real heroes, aren't they, don't you find ye?
Yeah?
Basically troops.
Yeah that's what.
Except they drops more dangerous right than the troops. Okay, as we trundle towards the end. Edward Graso Junior. Where can people find you?
You can find me on Twitter and blue Sky, Big Black Jacobin. You can find me my newsletter The Tech Bubble dot substack dot com, and my podcast dis Mission Kills where we talk about tech.
Jesse Ferrah, Michael Hale. Where can people find you?
Mike and myself host You're a Kickstarter Sucks and Mike, did we get the custom domain on blue Sky your kickstarter sucks dot com?
I believe we did.
Yeah.
You can also find me at calls dot com, slash about, slash people dot html.
No.
I think Coles took on the about page because of the stuff that's going on.
So you're not gonna they don't want people to find you, Just be clear. Michael's name is commonly dog Boner, Tom Where can people find You?
You can find me at ibrew dot com or on Twitter at twitter dot com, slash the Tom zone, or on blue Sky at captured two dot beskuy dot social. That's embarrassing, enjoyed the blue guy and was like posting about how there's a scammer about like warning his people before immediately getting banned.
And as the listeners know, I am your cult leader and you can find me. If there's an ad xetron, it's probably me, unless it isn't. And if you choose the wrong one, well that means you're not chosen. But if you need to spend your money from your hog slop job where you go out and you smash windows and you steal thinks some cars and new Conn people and you're walking around the street thinking where's my next victim, Well, well, I extract value from the well when you get your ill gotten gains, the next ads will probably be for something you can spend them on. Ideally, you want to operate in cash. If the's a digital you need a prepaid debit card, email me at was it Tom dot McKay no, sorry ed at East No, No, just a Google crime and that's where you find my email. And we're back and I assume you have bought or downloaded whatever it was. They just said if you didn't, that's a real personal insult to me, and you know, you know how I feel about that. So we've had a slight rotation. To my right is Tom McKay of it Brew of course.
Eh, how's it going?
And actually over across from me is Max Journey of Reuters. Hello, Internet, and thank you. I'm glad someone respects the computer. And Jesse fer Our of your Kickstarter sucks. Of course he's back. Well now I'll be on the left. He's on the left as he has not been. No, okay, come on, come on, whoa. So Max, I'm actually really excited to have you here because we've spent like several hours just like dunking on this. They're just like making fun of stuff and being annoyed at stuff. But you you are here covering chips and silicon and such. What have you seen? What has Nvidia done? Actually that's a great point. What's Nvidia come at this trip? Sure? Absolutely?
I mean they've unveiled a few new things in terms of silicon. Specifically, they launched a computer called Digits, which is essentially one of their supercomputers compressed in some in something even smaller than Mac Minnie.
And that's like the three thousand dollars one, right.
That's the three thousand dollars one, Yeah, exactly, And so that that was kind of an interesting thing there. There have been we've reported that they're going to make PC chips themselves. So this is potentially on the road to producing some kind of laptop or our desktop PC trip themselves.
So when you say, what is this machine for? This three thousand dollars in video compute, because I've seen a ton of coverage but no one will actually tell me what it's for.
Well, it looks like mostly it's for researchers and people that want to do experiments with AI or code with AI, or essentially just do things that require giant computers sort of on a smaller on a small scale.
So is it generative AI focused or well, I mean.
Of course you can run generative AI apps with it, but they they've sort of pitched it as something that that was geared for researchers and develop testing.
Yeah, because the way it's being reported is by other people is that it's some sort of replacement for the large scale GPUs that are being used for like inference for so, inference being the thing when you make a request from chat GPT for example, and it generates NONSA. So it's not really for that. That's not the business use case.
It didn't look like it to me. It looked like, I mean, maybe you can run of course, I'm sure you could probably run out on it, but of course, but it looks like it's set up design for you know, somebody who wants a computer in their office or I don't know, at their university or whatever, just given the price point. And you know, the setup it showed was with a monitor and a keyboard and a mouse, and so it's it's definitely like a it's like a personal computer.
Effectively. It runs Linux.
So that also means it's probably not a consumer machine, right because most consumers are not gonna are not willing to learn how to use Linux or won't do it or whatever.
So it should be able to run like eleven Chrome tabs on it. So so I hate to do this, Maxie mind turning a microphone just slightly. We've had a late entrant. We've had we have the wonderful Matt Benda who made his way up here. Thank you man, Matt, thanks for having me.
Yet it's finally we met you.
Matt Bender and I have been on this podcast like three or four times of course scam Economy.
Yes, yes, and we've never met him, he's.
Never met in personal and now we have he's on my podcast. So Max, back to back to you for a question. So what else was announced in general with Silicon on this with the hardware in general?
Absolutely, I mean the as always with the big chip makers, they announce new PC usually Gaming Stuff and Video announced a bunch of new new line of gaming chips, the RTX fifty series. They're claiming the low end on that series is able to deliver performance that's capable of what the high end of the current RTX series really So yeah, they use a technique called d LSS, which is just a fancy way of saying they use AI to predict what the next frame in the game is going to look like. At the moment they're rendering two frames at once. This one can render four frames it once. But it's on the hardware side, not on the hardware side.
Yeah, yeah, it's all This is all hardware. And this is differentiated from when you say I AI. This is separate to generative AI this. I don't know exactly how it works, right, just because the DLSS has been around for longer than the current boom though, yeah oh yeah yeah ds D LSS has been around for I don't know, four or five years. I want to say, but don't on that on that particul we don't know things say don't worry, but okay, let's move you up to Matt Binder. Of course, Matt, what have you seen so far? What have you been cursed with on this eternal trip?
I've been covering a lot of like weird stuff, and I do a lot of AR glasses And how are those?
You know?
Uh?
I have yet to find one that I could actually what it would actually use. Like, sure, you put them on and they're cool to like see because some of them have different ways of doing things, but like there was one for example that like there's there's no lens and usually the the it's the holiday.
Glasses, and usually holiday glass holidays.
So there are basically aar glasses where the mean holiday like a name holiday.
Yes that's what I'm just British, that's my problem.
Yes, uh so basically the AR part isn't built into the lens, It's built into the rim. Okay, so it's a little like, uh a circular screen where basically put the glasses on and your eye is meant to look at the circular screen.
Above the lens.
That's where generally look.
Yeah, of course, and I I couldn't use it without going cross eyed.
I immediately was.
Going say, I love the experience of being heard by things.
Right right, So, I mean the idea is interesting, but you know, I think for me, though, the thing at CES is always what's not here anymore?
How do you mean?
Like what like like you can see where the tech industry thinks it's going based on what has just disappeared from the previous years, like what buzzwords? Are companies staying away from that they used to proudly say they were back, you know, last year or the year before, like what Like I came here two years ago for the first time, and every company had to say they were doing something in the metaverse. Hell yeah, every company was a metaverse company.
And this year I don't think you could even find the word.
Well I did. I found a metaverse and quant to my panel that I missed a panel though is there actually any metaverse product. I don't know because I missed it, which makes the trip of failure. So did you see any thing you enjoyed? Was it mostly pain?
I mean there's stuff that I've seen that worked, but I don't think i'd ever heard, like, like, the weirdest thing I saw is hands down that I don't know if you've seen it, the electric salt spoon. No, okay, it's by this Japanese company named Kiran, and it's actually available in Japan, So that's already ticking off a rarity at a ces.
It's something that's actually in stores and available.
So basically their goal is to let have people eat less salt, and they want to make your low sodium food taste saltier without actually adding salt. So how do they make it taste better? They send an electric current through the spoon to your tongue.
So just so we're clear, Yeah, just so we're clear, thinking to disassociate life on air, it's a special spoon.
It's a special spoon.
Oh good, And I mean listen, it worked. Wow, Like the food did taste a bit saltier. And I know because I thought at first I thought it was like a placebo effect, like, oh, they told me it tastes saltier, so my brain now thinks it's saltier.
But then I fucked up the usage.
Of Merovingian shit.
Yeah, but then I messed up while using it and it turned off midi soup.
They provided, and then so my spoon broke right.
So the soup actually did taste less saltier as I'm drinking it when the machine shut off. So I was like, oh, wow, it works. But also I would never buy this one hundred and thirty dollars spoon.
Wetter My spoon's uncharged.
But actually, yeah, so did they have a battery?
It was like, yeah, it was a battery powered spoon. Yeah, so assuming.
You have multiple people eating in your house.
Right, So the spoon handle and the the actual ladle or whatever you'd call it, they're separate parts, so you can replace.
Oh good, I love my spoon to be multi multiple parts.
Yes, yes, safely, only two, though they could have went really crazy with.
It, so you'd need like these Was it actually one hundred and thirty dollars?
I believe it was like one hundred in Japan, though they're not stunging in the us yet.
Yeah they got money though. Yeah.
Uh, I mean then the to me, it's like the ideas.
I find, I must find the spoon. Where's the spoon?
It was at the first night the media Knight unveiled. I don't know where you're from.
Me. I don't made a look at that spoons. You need to buy multiple ones of these extensively. You're right, right, some rich oss guys like, yeah, now you don't need much salt at all.
I mean you could, I guess, you know, eat your food one at a time and just wash the spoon after every.
Year and find a bunch of people over in bath combined with So does it work with not soup?
Uh? They just had soup there to try, and I'm assuming it's got to work with things that are not too But otherwise.
Well okay, no, no, no, no, no no.
I mean what if you pick up the soup but the spoon by what else you eating?
Where you would reduce the salt that wasn't soup?
A lot of a lot of things like what but what is the thing I'm just thinking?
Yeah, but like wait are you where are you adding the salt with fried rice?
Okay, that's a good point. I don't know, And.
Why are you eating with a spoon? Yeah?
That's fork coded like you don't need the you don't need this one to eat ice cream, you know.
So this is just a very expensive soup related technology.
I mean again, Japanese company, they'd a lot of soup over there.
They do.
I'm just thinking about this spoon, and I really fit. There's always a point, a see, yes, where I begin to go insane, when I begin to just like think of the special salt spoon, and then I call my therapist and I say, I'm thinking of the spoon. Anyway, did you see anything you like? Though everyone has the same answer, it's a it's a sigh and then a space of time.
Right, Well, hey, wait a second, I mean the some of the chips look pretty cool.
Actually yeah, I mean you take a question so Matt can try and think of something he liked.
I mean, you know, I don't you know, chill for any of these companies, but they you know.
AMD, if you liked something, please tell us, well.
AMD, intele and Nvidia did all announce new Chipsbly arguably, they all look pretty interesting for different different reasons. AMB did something pretty unique. They added this technology called unified memory to their latest gaming process or what is that? Apple did it a few years ago. It basically just makes the chip faster. It means that the memory in this and the CPU can talk to each other much more quickly, which allows uh, you know, more more speedy graphics and more speedy you know, computing power. But it is actually an interesting thing. I don't I haven't tried it. I don't know how would have any benchmarks, so I have no earthly idea how it performs in the real world. But theoretically the technology is pretty good.
So as I'm speaking for the listeners that don't know stuff and myself, how does that manifest in something good? Is it just that the hardware and the software the hardware pots talk to each other.
So I think I can take this one basically he's trying to say it basically, is it goes like so the chip goes into more tabs.
Yeah, it's browser tabs. And to be clear, this is for computer.
Oh okay, yeah, So if you just think about whenever you you probably have a computer at home right now.
Right done, right now. But well a lot of people may.
Have computers, and these chips basically can go in them, so it's from there. It's just pretty cool stuff. Actually, damn I love.
Logan on Okay, Matt, anything enjoyable.
I mean the TVs are cool like okay yah yeah, I mean how can you and the gaming monitors that really big curved monitors like I would never buy these things because they cost like thousands of Oh yeah, you're in journalism, right, right right? I mean one thing I like, is that coming to see? Yes, it is now clear that at least as a technology.
Product, crypto is dead.
There is no crulls, nothing absent completely. Now I mentioned metaverse and like you know, metaverse is just like Zilly, but like it is actually a breath of fresh air to finally see that the tech industry, at least that represented by ce S has seemed to move on, moved on.
Completely from crypto blockchain.
I remember two years ago, every company, whether it doesn't matter if they were like a special electronic dental floss company whatever, they all wanted to give you a free NFT if you come to their booth. There is not a single and I don't think the words n F or T or even here at CEES.
If you find them, please email me easy at Better off Line dot Com. I want to find them and ask them some questions. I want to know what they're doing here, right, you know.
I think people realize like this is if anything. It's like it's a financial day trading scam. It's not a tech product. But it's pretty cool though.
It is really cool.
Jesse, would you like to shif for crypto as the crypto ex put for the show.
I think it's just kind of cool because they're like little pictures or something. So it's like, I don't know, I just think that's like I hear what you're saying. It's like, Okay, the tech companies have moved on from the little pictures, but it's like we're always gonna have little pictures, you know types you know what I'm saying, Like it's been forever we've had these little pictures. So I just think, like, Okay, maybe it's waned right now, but there's gonna be a time where we come back to CEES and we see the little pictures again, and I think that's gonna be really cool.
I think it is funny as well that like Max is probably the only person who has been at c S who has found the real stuff because like it's just because you can't really fake silicon. No you can't you. I mean, you can fake it up up until a certain point. You can.
You can rag about how good it's gonna be or whatever, your what your what your startup's doing, and you can claim performance. But if at a certain point you have to send a chip to the fab and make it and if it doesn't do what you say it will, well then that's that.
And the thing is that's really important. It's actually good like good education for the listeners as well, is it they give him back the microphone? Just come on, all right? But the important it's actually important like foundation people to know with a lot of these companies talking about like a six so especial chips and like oh open aiy or whomever will simply build a chip. It is not that easy, right, it is not that easy. So what is the process of a chip getting done?
And you know a lot more about this than I think you're letting on. I mean, and you know what an ASIK.
Is and I just don't know what it stands for, candidly, Application specific integrated circuit Thank you, whooh someone knows stuff. You're right, But you're really right.
It's it's it's super complicated and expensive to make even a basic AI chip, and we're talking a couple of years from scratch, a couple of years minimum at least half a billion dollars if you're if you're lucky, another half a billion to build a hardware around it, because that's something people forget often. When you make a chip, you make the actual piece of silicon. If you look at any Nvidia product or many others, they've got a whole board around it with a bunch of other chips and other stuff, and that to make that is probably another half billion dollars. So this is these are not inexpensive ideas.
And then when it comes to the actual integration and putting these into service, you have to do a bunch more cooling and actual and there is failure rate as well.
Absolutely, and you have to write the software on top of it. I mean the whole way, Like having the idea to make a chip is like it's a multi year and if you only make one, you've just wasted your time and money.
So you have to as a company, you generally have to do multiple.
Absolutely, Yeah, you want to you want a roadmap because that's the whole. I mean, if anybody that's buying AI chips for any reason, they're not buying the current generation, they're buying Gen two, Gen three and maybe.
Chest thing, so they're buying ahead. Absolutely. Yeah, So I'm glad. I'm really glad you're here for many reasons. But I like putting this stuff down because the reason that there is like the real and the fake parts of CS is as I said, you can't really fake chips. You can be like, oh, yeah, we're doing an AI stethoscope, or we're going to claim to cure autism with VR or whatever, but you can't really be like we're going to do a chip because the actual chips people would just be like, no, you're not. There is like very clear boundaries with what you can actually do, which is what's so interesting because you have this chunk of CS was just the no bullshit zone because you really you could not be making like Nvidio pumps themselves up up and says all this stuff, but ultimately is what it does.
It does have to deliver, has to exit at a certain point. I mean, people will buy them, put them in the field, try all the hardware, try the software, and the claims have to a certain point live up to there whatever they're.
You know, saying. So forgive me for a very direct question, but how realistic is it for someone like Sam Oltman to build out an AI chip? Like how it's years ahead?
Right, it's years ahead. I mean, it's more of a talent question than a money question. I think they're only maybe ten to twelve teams of people around the world that can build cutting edge, world class chips, and all of the people that lead those teams have jobs that they probably like or enjoy, and so you have to find the right people in order to do that. Find disgruntle people or whatever. The reason why is why they're leaving. But you have to assemble the right group of people to be able to build a chip. And even if you get the right group of people with the amount of money that you need, there's still just risks with building a chip like Well, you could think the design works, you could, for example, you could virtually verify that it works, you could test it, you could do all the computer simulations and other simulations that you want. When you send it to the fab to the factory to print, it might not come out exactly how you think it will.
And that will mean it doesn't work as well, it doesn't cool as efficiently. It might not work at all. Oh it might not. Yeah, there might be. It might You can get like billions into this and like and you might not. I mean it does happen frequently with the first generation of chips. Most companies that try them for the first time, the first version will not be amazing. It'll do certain things effectively and well, but it probably won't be able to achieve you know, and Video just for example, and Videos spent twenty years, thirty years, whatever whatever it is, you know, working on its designs. So to expect that a company can come in in two years replicate the performance or whatever of you know, somebody who's been doing it for a long time, it's kind of unrealistic. So it usually takes several generations. And Video has their own software, Kuda, for making gus do stuff. It took quite a while for that to kind of scale, right.
I mean they started in ninety five, I want to say, yeah, building Kuda, and they've been working on it ever since. I mean it used to be centered around their g fours graphics cards, and now it's obviously a little bigger.
A little bigger.
Yeah, I mean maybe not as big as the Electric Soup spoon, but you potentially one day, maybe they'll have that success and they can do more than just soup, that's for sure.
So Matt bringing back to you.
But the chips you're talking about, you can't even taste, so, I mean, come on, there are there are.
There are probably chips in the spoon though, and there are chips that the salty. So anything hurt any seen on the you just saw it and upset you.
Oh, I thought you meant physically like.
I mean just walking Its pre rough, mate. I'm not gonna lie I'm in pain, but.
Geez, I need a second. I'm trying to think.
Anything just upsetting or annoying.
Yeah, I mean it does.
It does pain me to see the AI integration and everything, like I don't need AI to be like the most random things like I was actually surprised that the spoon didn't say claim AI integration or anything, you know, uh, the smart glasses. I mean, I guess I could see with the glasses like the AI integration for like translations is a use case if you're someone who would wear AR glasses to begin with. But I mean, do you really need like generative AI and things like that, Like no, Like.
I find the rape bends discussed PUDTE disgusting. I think if you're walking around looking at things and trying to work out using the computer or a pervert, like what are you? What are you doing?
Right?
Right?
Like stuff too, though, are a hugetable market market many of them, many of them listen to the show, speaking of which, I think this might be the first CEES where they're the sex toy industry is here.
That's the thing.
Wait, they weren't here before they were.
There was a huge thing a year or two ago where some company applied for CES and they were told we do not this industry here and they smartly, I mean you used it to their advantage like with press, and they were like it got tons of I think on top of this, this was like a sex positive woman owned business.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Yeah, no, nothing wrong at all.
But like that company used that to their advantage and said, like CS tells you know women owned.
Sex Yeah yeah.
And so for the first time I'm seeing these sex toy companies on the floor of CES.
It's like, why not I.
Feel like Vegas is something, something's economically breaking. I haven't seen the guys with the flappy cards. I didn't see the flappy guys either, back back, get back. So these guys who are I think it's stripped cups personally never.
Heading out like the yeah, yeah, and I haven't seen.
Them for years. And that the back clapping, the back they're flipping to the clap clap. They I saw them. They put they like took a fan.
It was actually it's actually kind of nice, very industri They took all the nasty little cards and they put them like on a streets sign and made a little fans.
Yeah, I saw that kind of cute. They have been gone for years. In fact, they're back is probably not a great sign. But I must be clear, there's nothing wrong with being a perverse as long as.
You don't think there's something wrong with that industry, particularly that industry.
I do not know about QR codes, like, right.
You're supposed to scan the porno, right, But that's the thing. Nothing wrong with being horny as long as it's not anyone else it's problem. Let's go around right now. Let's just say who's horny in the room. So ed or Nope, not Tom, I love this. This is really good. Writers declines comment on this one. Okay, Matt, when you walk in, I was like, no, can we quote that? Cand I write this up and quote.
On the question of horniness, Reuters declimb.
No, stop it. I'm sorry. Why did I just didn't say anything for a minute, so I want to well, we didn't get mad on the record here, so.
Well, I can quote Mashable here Mashable very horny.
My god, so sorry. Everyone every had Robert Evans listing all the crimes I commit every every episode. Listeners were the criminals I know. And I made a joke about stealing stuff once and it's all that's in the reddit and even saying this, there's gonna be another thread and they're gonna be like, oh, I did this crime. I run the reddit, baby, Okay, I'm on the top of that ship.
Isn't that kind of a conflict of interest? No?
No, no, well yes, but no. The reddit was created by someone called comic Con and all it was for the first month was just like the show fucking sucks. So I went in there and just argued with everyone. And now it's great. They love me because they know all fucking respond Yeah, culture of fear. Baby, So Max, how long are you here for? How how long are you you suffering with this? I'm leaving tonight.
That's probably for the best, just enough time to see the silicon and get out.
Yeah, and then with the wholely levels then we don't even know what kind of silicon. I'm so sorry, Max, I'm I'm sorry. But so do you like see is this your first how many of you? I've been twice now, right, So how do I feel?
I mean, Vegas is a is a city that I think you just have to accept, yes, And when you do that, especially this part of Las Vegas, then then I think it's a lot more enjoyable, right personally, because like I don't visit Vegas very often, you know, so it's kind of a novelty for me. I get to go see the crazy casinos and walk around the room, see all the different people who were here and degenerates okay, most yeah, exactly most so, I mean, and it is kind of cool to see like all this technology, you know, sort of stuck into like sixteen different convention centers or whatever the number is these days, you know, but you know this is visit number two. I'm saying for two days, so I don't have the uh, you know, tenure to be able to to talk about it like I'm a twenty year veteran and some people certainly have.
I know.
I find it fascinating when people haven't got much experience how they feel. But you also deal with the real things, which is which is fun because everyone else is just going and being like, yeah, I saw an AI dil though, and I can't. They wouldn't let me use it.
Well, I mean, you know, the PC chips and and and so on. Our are pretty exciting, but a lot of the stuff that we report on is the data center chips that power most of AI. Right now, they hear as well, no, this is this is all consumer stuff, the most I mean, the biggest thing that tends to get talked about. Now you're you know, we're talking about things that aren't discussed or weren't discussed before, Matt or are the these AI PCs. This is like one of these things that the industry has been trying to make happen for a little over a year now, and you know, supposed to start lifting PC A PC sales this year and.
What these chips meant to do.
Just to be clear, I wish I could have a good as I have the demo later today, I'll let you know I'm clear to me.
I mean I think the I mean I'm saying that because I think the answer is is that this is one of those situations where if you don't build the hardware to do the thing, then nobody can make the software to do the thing right. Right, So if you if the capability doesn't exist, then nobody can code on top of it to make the cool application for whatever.
AI think.
Okay, I'll buy that, right, Like I mean, I mean, I have no idea if it'll succeed or not. I mean, I don't predict the future, but I think it is true with any generation of hardware, like for example, real time rate tracing that in video made a few years ago when they launched it, and real time rate tracing just makes light look better, video game graphics look better.
So for when they launched it.
There was like one, yeah, I don't remember how many games, but it was like a small handful, you know, very very few, and you know, it was like cool, but not widely adopted. It took until I think the video game consoles. The Xbox Series X and the PS five included the tech in their systems for it to become like very widely adopted by developers. You know, So this is I think with AIPC chips. It's like kind of similar.
How long will this bubble lost? Right?
I mean I would give it a few years, Like I would give it two or three years for the software software ecosystem to like actually build out. But I mean, you know, at the moment, arguably the most interesting thing that Microsoft talked about when they launched their Copilot plus program was the what is that?
Historically it's their AI PC platform.
The PCs that are part of it have to have a certain spec in order to run the applications. Was this thing called recall, which allowed you to look back, Oh, everyone loved that.
Everybody loved that. They killed it. They're relaunching it now. But I mean, yes, you know, so yeah, I just it's but like you see, you.
See this blowback even from like regular consumers, not just the disgruntled people in the room right here right now, like the five of us, but like regular consumers are not upgrading to like Windows eleven, for example, They're choosing to stick with the non AI operating system and like, listen, I don't think they are aware that they're like, oh I don't want AI for the most part. But also the AI has not been a draw for them to get them to upgrade, Like they don't care about it.
And when it comes to enterprise stuff, especially like what you're talking about, like trying to sell like business like laptops with like integrated you know, I think they call them NPUs neuroprocessing unit. Is okay, all this stuff is already running in the cloud. I can't think of any other like you know, sort of like function where they offloaded it from the cloud to like your local PC. Like, what's the business value in running chat GPT on like your laptop?
Actually I can actually answer that one in the sense that it will kill chat GPT, because when you realize what you can run on your laptop, you'll fuck around with it and be like, oh, this doesn't do that matter.
Yeah, there's all these like software as service companies that are like speak and it'll text a voice right away for you. Well, there are models that you could just run off your computer. You don't have to pay a monthly fee to do that. You could just literally download the free like language model and there you go your set. It's they don't want people to know this for real.
Yeah, I mean, but in a lot of cases, you can already run this stuff on afficiently powerful computer with that just has like the GPU.
Oh yeah, yeah, you could get right now, like a probably a two three hundred dollars M one Macminie because they're now at M four and even that's five hundred bucks and your set. You could run all this stuff right off your your silicon uh, the Macca chipset if you want.
Yeah, I just haven't seen the use cases to like justify like these, like like buying a new generation of AI PC's. It doesn't like really stand out to me as so why you would do this.
I mean, I think what's really going to drive people to buy new computers is the fact that Windows ten is end of life.
Yeah, I mean, no, my dad has to buy a new laptop of it stops the lessons. He loves his laptop. It's like he loves this weird surface thing.
Unfortunately not very funny or interesting. The fact that you know, that's the reason why people are gonnaup grade.
Also, my dad Jeff, Hi dad. You sometimes listen to these hi head's dad, Everyone say HWI I to my dad and Jeff, let's get a horny check on you as well, if you don't mind not, I am going to have to talk to my father about that.
On a scale of chase.
To Randy to tell. I'm going to tell the group chat I have with my siblings that I am shortly going to have to find out morning.
That is, I can go down to that power they hook your dad up with.
I need you to send me the booth numbers chat.
I'm going to FaceTime your dad right now.
It's ten pm in GMT. Just going for that. Okay, we've got to wrap up them. So Tom McKay, where can people find you?
Uh?
You can find me at ibrew dot com. You can also find me on Twitter at Twitter dot com, slash the Tom zone or x dot com whatever and uh on blue sky as cattured two dots guy do at social so good.
So I bet you're loving that you chose that name.
I am not. It's so good. I'm on a bunch of blacklists. I remember everybody thinks that I'm the Actually.
I remember when you picked it, being like he is going to get by people. It's so good, Max Chenney web can people find you anywhere where there's a chip? But Okaynell, that's not even factually true. And what's great? By the way, my brother just responded to the thing of I am surely My other brother responded with, what the fuck? I can't wait to explain why my dad is going to have to do a horny check to my siblings. Max to Cheney, weckon people find you, Sorry at Churn and burn on X and Blue Sky and then on LinkedIn. If you want, just look look up my name. Very good, Matt Band to weaken people find you.
First of all, I'm sorry for bringing up the sex toys being at CES this year, but yeah, you.
Can find me well my Mashable.
My CES coverage will be at mashablemashable dot com, and you can find me on you know, all sorts of social media, Blue Sky X, the Everything app, threads at Matt Bender, very good, Jesse for wrong.
Yeah, your Kickstarter sucks is the podcast go off Kings is my stream, Yeah, and I'm not on the everything app, but yeah on Blue Sky, jessefar dot com.
I probably need to change the episode links because I linked to you on x and I'm of course ed Zeitron. I am now going to have a very uncomfortable conversation with several of my siblings about this episode. Thank you for listening to the first part of the two part Day three Better Offline CS experience was so grateful for you. We love you all. I am ed Zeitron. You can find me everywhere where it says ed Zeitron, other than the parts that make me look bad. Thanks for listening and we'll see you soon. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Mattasowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com, m A T T O S O W s ki dot com. You can email me at easy at Better offline dot com or visit better offline dot com to find more podcast links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat dot Where's youreed dot at to visit the discord, and go to our slash.
Better Offline to check out our reddit. Thank you so much for listening.
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media. Visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
