Reducing public defender workloads across the nation

There has been a lot of change in college sports as many major Division I schools continue to consolidate into one of the Power Five conferences. The Big Ten currently has 14 members with four more schools set to join in 2024.

Prominent conferences also negotiate for big television contracts, and the Big Ten has just ended its longtime agreement with ABC and ESPN and entered into a new deal with CBS.

In this latest episode of Behind the Headlines, Amie Just, a sports columnist for the Lincoln Journal Star and Husker Extra, discusses a story for Lee Enterprises' Public Service Journalism team that looks at that new TV deal.

Read the full story: How the Big Ten's new TV deal with Fox, CBS, NBC and Peacock works

About this program

Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, he produces the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, co-hosts Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the producer of Across the Sky weather and climate podcast.

Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. Learn more here.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:



Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Leon, your host. In this latest episode, Amie, Just a sports columnist for the Lincoln Journal, star in Husker Extra, worked on a story for Lee Enterprises public service journalism team that looks at a new television contract for the Big Ten conference and what it means for fans.

Amie, thank you for joining the program today. Yeah, thanks for having me. So can you give a little bit of a background on what you worked on and what this new contract is for the Big Ten? Yes. So Nebraska sends Big Ten fans for as long as football has been televised through cable networks. They have gotten really used to going to ABC and ESPN and for big games that will be different.

Now, with the Big Ten using CBS as well as its previous partners in NBC and Fox and its own internal network with the Big Ten Network, it's a little different. And so I wanted to explain to fans what this will look like and how different it could be, especially at the beginning, because no matter who we are, a change is hard, right?

So I approached it. My story from that perspective was just how will this be different for viewers who are tuning in at home? What is the most noticeable change then that viewers might see right away? I know ESPN know ABC, and instead of that CBS four games. Now, if a Big Ten team is playing on the road against an SEC team or, you know, any other conferences that have partnerships with ESPN, then those games could still be on those networks.

And then in the postseason, four bowl games and whatnot. Then those games could still be on ABC and ESPN's family of networks. So it's not going away completely, but it is going away for your Big Ten games. Why the change? Does this just come down to money? Is that simply it? Yeah. So what the FCC did its big deal there a few years ago and CBS was cut out of the picture for the FCC.

So the FCC is moving forward just solely with ESPN and ABC for their games moving forward. And you'll see that change take place, not this season, but next season for that. In the meantime, then, will fans still get the same number of games that they would expect? Normally, this season on ESPN? Or is there a little bit of a you know, with the FCC still on CBS, are they occupying some slots that might go to the Big Ten in the future?

Yeah. So there are there are seven games for the Big Ten that'll be on CBS this season as CBS and ESPN or CBS and the SEC phase out of their partnership. So I believe there will be a couple Big ten games on ESPN in the non-conference when the Big Ten is a visiting team. But yeah, moving forward now, ABC or ESPN.

So the majority of your Big Ten. Now the Big Ten has been in flux also. It's I mean, it hasn't been just ten schools in a while and it just keeps on growing and growing and growing. We have the addition of schools coming in like UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, where were any of those schools involved in this deal at all in negotiations, or was this just, you know, the contract happened to be up with ABC and it's just more coincidence.

So they had to take care of the deal anyway. So when the Big Ten had offer she out and was negotiating with all of the broadcast networks, USC and UCLA were already involved in being Big Ten schools at that point. So their inclusion and in these conversations, they were already included in these conversations. Washington and Oregon, not so much.

So the the Big Ten put out its opponents list for 2024 and 2025, like right before Oregon and Washington were admitted into the conference and they will be admitted into the conference in 2024. So the Big Ten has to go back to the drawing board on its schedule, saying four conference opponents. I don't think it's going to erase everything that had already been done because so much work had been put into making that schedule.

But it will have to change just with the inclusion of two new teams. So Oregon and Washington will receive lesser payments as they become onboarded with this new deal and entering the conference. But so far it's going to it's going to be interesting in 2024, that's for sure. What is the state of college football in particular? I guess college in general with these TV contract talks, have there been a lot of shifts recently or is it just kind of business as usual deals expired, new contracts have to get negotiated or has there, especially now with so many conferences and the consolidation into the power five in particular, has that really changed the game here?

Yeah, I think it all goes hand in hand with each other. The ACC is contract is not up until 2036, so we've got quite a while for that one to expire. But I think the landscape of college athletics will look vastly different by the time the accedes deal needs to be renegotiated. The PAC 12 what's left of it anyway, the deal that they were trying to work on was not great, and that is partially what has led to the conference's demise.

So yeah, it's part of it. The Big Ten that had been working on this for a while and then this current deal that they have in place expires in seven years. So and I'm not entirely sure when the SEC's deal is done, but several years from now since they just renegotiated it a few years ago. So that's definitely a driving factor in all of this.

You know, cash is king in billions keep of college football. And I think that's driving a lot of this, but not all of it. The the PAC 12, in my opinion, was partially brought down by just idiocy from its leadership. And that definitely didn't help with their TV deal going the way that it did. And their recent talks with Apple TV.

You talk a little bit about the Big Ten's contract status overall, because it's to me, it's almost a little confusing because we know we have the Big Ten Network. So they have their own thing that they do that that's part of cable systems. They have this deal now with CBS, but they also have deals out with other networks to write.

They have something with with Fox, NBC, but also Peacock. What what do all these mean? You know, they're spread all over the place. What what networks are getting what what's the price even to. Yeah. So it's going to be like structured based on time. So Fox as they've done in the past, has your big new game so there will be a game on Fox at noon Eastern and then their family of network so FS1 some games will be on there as well and then your afternoon game your 330 Eastern, that'll be CBS and then your primetime game that's NBC.

Now the Big Ten Network will fill in the gaps. So there will be other games on at the same time because that's just the way things work. But then with Peacock coming into the mix, they will have a few games that will be solely, you know, exclusive to Peacock for streaming. So and that's NBC's streaming service. So any game that is on NBC will be able to be streamed on Peacock, but there will be some games that will be exclusively on Peacock this season.

It's just a few. A lot of them are non-conference games, but as we move forward into 2024, there could be more of those games. You know, Big Ten opponent versus Big Ten opponent on the air. And that'll be something to, you know, you just have to adjust to. But it does appear that the games that are on Peacock exclusively, the the the people that work with getting like sports bars like their TV packages, it appears like they've made a deal there.

So you're not going to be stuck trying to pay for peacock if you don't to you can still go to your local sports bar. It sounds like, and watch those games. So this almost sounds like or it is very similar to what's happened in some other sports where NFL has games on Amazon Prime for Major League Baseball is using Apple TV plus and you almost have to and I know is is a baseball fan who subscribes to MLB TV There's a lot of frustration with baseball fans because you're paying for this baseball package but once a week games might end up on Apple TV Plus and it's almost diluting those packages.

Have you heard any concerns from anybody regarding these, you know, exclusivity to like a peacock, which isn't part of traditional cable or at the very least, you know, you can't bust out the rabbit ears and attach it to your TV and just watched over the network airwaves. Any any concerns out there that you've heard of? I'm sure once we get closer to the season and teams, fans of teams find out that, oh, this is a peacock on the game, I'm sure that there will be some frustrations with that.

But right now it's, you know, fans are just excited for football to come back and they aren't necessarily caring just yet what network their game will be on. But once we roll around to when the games are actually happening and you're trying to figure out what channel it's going to be on, I'm sure people will be frustrated. Absolutely.

And people will let you know and you'll probably follow up on that as it happens. Yeah, we're we're obviously focused very much on football because it is you know, college football season is about to take off. But, you know, this deal isn't just for football. This is Big Ten for all their sports. Correct. So this is we're talking about men's and women's basketball, other sports.

So what can we expect to see when we move forward to basketball season? Yeah. So plenty of Big Ten basketball games that aired on CBS in the past. So that won't necessarily change. And then, you know, if a Big Ten team is involved in Multi-Team tournaments like the ESPN one, for example, obviously those games will be on ESPN.

If they play a non-conference road game, then you know, that will be, you know, aired on whatever, you know, networks that the road team is partnered with. So men's basketball, those games will air on either Fox, CBS, FS1, BTN or Big Ten plus. And then some games will be exclusively streamed on Peacock too, so we'll know more about that as a, you know, the the process for figuring out where those games go.

We'll figure out more on that as we get closer to the season. And then women's basketball games will air on either Fox, FS1, BTN, BTN Plus and Peacock. There may be some additional broadcast opportunities on other platforms, but they haven't quite figured that one out yet. Again, not quite there yet on the season. So that's going to be interesting to see as that, you know, plays out as games get, you know, scheduled and, you know, slotted to see where those end up, how many are solely on streaming versus, you know, on national television.

But again, like the big saying for that is, you know, if a Big Ten team plays a non-conference team on the road, then those games could air on ABC or ESPN or like women's basketball fans in Nebraska saw last year a top 25 game with Nebraska women's basketball at a top 25 team in Creighton Women's basketball that was exclusively streamed out below sports.

So fans have been, you know, frustrated by that in the past. But that's just how it works sometimes as far as Olympic sports, like volleyball, big, big sport in the Big Ten, those will be Big Ten Network, the Fox Family of Networks and BTN Plus, and then your local stations as well. Peacock will not be exclusively streaming on big sports just yet, but that's something that they're going to look at in the future.

They are so far the Olympic sports coverage, you know, other than volleyball I think has been getting Big Ten Network airing all of those championships. And I think this is my personal opinion. I think the Big Ten could do more with volleyball and the national audiences seeing merit. The national championship will be on ABC this year for volleyball, which is really exciting.

So if a Big Ten team is in there, then obviously you're going to be watching them on ABC. And I hope personally, I hope that that is really successful because the more women's sports that are on national television, I think the better. Yeah. I'm based in Madison, Wisconsin, so obviously a couple of years ago, the women's volleyball team winning the national title.

That was huge and got tremendous exposure. So you can really see how well that played on TV. And it was it was fun to watch. So it's good to see that those opportunities are going to be out there for not just football, because that's what everybody always talks about. It's football and it's college basketball because they're the big, big money drivers.

But obviously you have a lot of athletes in many different sports that don't necessarily get that level of of TV exposure that you would see or would like to see. Anything else you learned or found interesting on this story that you put together? I just think it's fascinating how this all comes together. It's a really complicated process to figure out what games go on, what network at what time, and just seeing that in action, I think it's really fascinating for me personally with so many different networks, you know, because it's not just CBS, it's obviously of the Big Ten network of CBS.

Yeah. FOX Are there any times where these networks, they butt heads and, you know, we want this game, but no, no, we're going to we want this game instead or or does it break down pretty evenly over the course of the season? Everybody wants Michigan, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Like everybody was thinking like everybody wants those big games, right?

So yeah, I'm sure there's, you know, standing on the table metaphorically, of course, maybe. Actually, I'm not sure. But, you know, at the end of the day, regardless of what network these games are on, it's going to be a good product for fans. And that's what the Big Ten is after, is making sure that, you know, they're doing creative and well-done programing regardless of if it's on FOX, Fox Sports one, CBS, NBC, Peacock, the Big Ten Network, they want their product to be well represented.

And I think that with any of these networks, they can't go wrong. On that note, we will wrap up. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you.

We hope you enjoyed this latest episode of Behind the Headlines. You can find us on every podcast platform and we'd love it if you could take a moment to subscribe and leave a review. Finally, if you appreciate what we're doing with this program, we encourage you to invest in local journalism by supporting the newspaper in your community. I'm Terry Lipshetz, thanking you so much for listening to Behind the headlines from the Enterprises.

There has been a lot of change in college sports as many major Division I schools continue to consolidate into one of the Power Five conferences. The Big Ten currently has 14 members with four more schools set to join in 2024.
Prominent conferences also negotiate for big television contracts, and the Big Ten has just ended its longtime agreement with ABC and ESPN and entered into a new deal with CBS.
In this latest episode of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a>, Amie Just, a sports columnist for the <a href="https://journalstar.com/">Lincoln Journal Star</a> and <a href="https://huskerextra.com/">Husker Extra</a>, discusses a story for Lee Enterprises' Public Service Journalism team that looks at that new TV deal.
Read the full story: <a href="https://huskerextra.com/news/football/big-ten-television-contract-fans/article_2bfca676-3e0a-11ee-b5d3-3b687c2c24ef.html">How the Big Ten's new TV deal with Fox, CBS, NBC and Peacock works</a>
About this program
Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a> program, he produces the daily <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire</a> news podcast, co-hosts <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/just-to-be-nominated">Streamed &amp; Screened </a>movies and television program and is the producer of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/across-the-sky">Across the Sky</a> weather and climate podcast.
Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. <a href="https://linktr.ee/leepodcasts">Learn more here</a>.
Episode transcript
Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:
 
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Leon, your host. In this latest episode, Amie, Just a sports columnist for the Lincoln Journal, star in Husker Extra, worked on a story for Lee Enterprises public service journalism team that looks at a new television contract for the Big Ten conference and what it means for fans.
Amie, thank you for joining the program today. Yeah, thanks for having me. So can you give a little bit of a background on what you worked on and what this new contract is for the Big Ten? Yes. So Nebraska sends Big Ten fans for as long as football has been televised through cable networks. They have gotten really used to going to ABC and ESPN and for big games that will be different.
Now, with the Big Ten using CBS as well as its previous partners in NBC and Fox and its own internal network with the Big Ten Network, it's a little different. And so I wanted to explain to fans what this will look like and how different it could be, especially at the beginning, because no matter who we are, a change is hard, right?
So I approached it. My story from that perspective was just how will this be different for viewers who are tuning in at home? What is the most noticeable change then that viewers might see right away? I know ESPN know ABC, and instead of that CBS four games. Now, if a Big Ten team is playing on the road against an SEC team or, you know, any other conferences that have partnerships with ESPN, then those games could still be on those networks.
And then in the postseason, four bowl games and whatnot. Then those games could still be on ABC and ESPN's family of networks. So it's not going away completely, but it is going away for your Big Ten games. Why the change? Does this just come down to money? Is that simply it? Yeah. So what the FCC did its big deal there a few years ago and CBS was cut out of the picture for the FCC.
So the FCC is moving forward just solely with ESPN and ABC for their games moving forward. And you'll see that change take place, not this season, but next season for that. In the meantime, then, will fans still get the same number of games that they would expect? Normally, this season on ESPN? Or is there a little bit of a you know, with the FCC still on CBS, are they occupying some slots that might go to the Big Ten in the future?
Yeah. So there are there are seven games for the Big Ten that'll be on CBS this season as CBS and ESPN or CBS and the SEC phase out of their partnership. So I believe there will be a couple Big ten games on ESPN in the non-conference when the Big Ten is a visiting team. But yeah, moving forward now, ABC or ESPN.
So the majority of your Big Ten. Now the Big Ten has been in flux also. It's I mean, it hasn't been just ten schools in a while and it just keeps on growing and growing and growing. We have the addition of schools coming in like UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, where were any of those schools involved in this deal at all in negotiations, or was this just, you know, the contract happened to be up with ABC and it's just more coincidence.
So they had to take care of the deal anyway. So when the Big Ten had offer she out and was negotiating with all of the broadcast networks, USC and UCLA were already involved in being Big Ten schools at that point. So their inclusion and in these conversations, they were already included in these conversations. Washington and Oregon, not so much.
So the the Big Ten put out its opponents list for 2024 and 2025, like right before Oregon and Washington were admitted into the conference and they will be admitted into the conference in 2024. So the Big Ten has to go back to the drawing board on its schedule, saying four conference opponents. I don't think it's going to erase everything that had already been done because so much work had been put into making that schedule.
But it will have to change just with the inclusion of two new teams. So Oregon and Washington will receive lesser payments as they become onboarded with this new deal and entering the conference. But so far it's going to it's going to be interesting in 2024, that's for sure. What is the state of college football in particular? I guess college in general with these TV contract talks, have there been a lot of shifts recently or is it just kind of business as usual deals expired, new contracts have to get negotiated or has there, especially now with so many conferences and the consolidation into the power five in particular, has that really changed the game here?
Yeah, I think it all goes hand in hand with each other. The ACC is contract is not up until 2036, so we've got quite a while for that one to expire. But I think the landscape of college athletics will look vastly different by the time the accedes deal needs to be renegotiated. The PAC 12 what's left of it anyway, the deal that they were trying to work on was not great, and that is partially what has led to the conference's demise.
So yeah, it's part of it. The Big Ten that had been working on this for a while and then this current deal that they have in place expires in seven years. So and I'm not entirely sure when the SEC's deal is done, but several years from now since they just renegotiated it a few years ago. So that's definitely a driving factor in all of this.
You know, cash is king in billions keep of college football. And I think that's driving a lot of this, but not all of it. The the PAC 12, in my opinion, was partially brought down by just idiocy from its leadership. And that definitely didn't help with their TV deal going the way that it did. And their recent talks with Apple TV.
You talk a little bit about the Big Ten's contract status overall, because it's to me, it's almost a little confusing because we know we have the Big Ten Network. So they have their own thing that they do that that's part of cable systems. They have this deal now with CBS, but they also have deals out with other networks to write.
They have something with with Fox, NBC, but also Peacock. What what do all these mean? You know, they're spread all over the place. What what networks are getting what what's the price even to. Yeah. So it's going to be like structured based on time. So Fox as they've done in the past, has your big new game so there will be a game on Fox at noon Eastern and then their family of network so FS1 some games will be on there as well and then your afternoon game your 330 Eastern, that'll be CBS and then your primetime game that's NBC.
Now the Big Ten Network will fill in the gaps. So there will be other games on at the same time because that's just the way things work. But then with Peacock coming into the mix, they will have a few games that will be solely, you know, exclusive to Peacock for streaming. So and that's NBC's streaming service. So any game that is on NBC will be able to be streamed on Peacock, but there will be some games that will be exclusively on Peacock this season.
It's just a few. A lot of them are non-conference games, but as we move forward into 2024, there could be more of those games. You know, Big Ten opponent versus Big Ten opponent on the air. And that'll be something to, you know, you just have to adjust to. But it does appear that the games that are on Peacock exclusively, the the the people that work with getting like sports bars like their TV packages, it appears like they've made a deal there.
So you're not going to be stuck trying to pay for peacock if you don't to you can still go to your local sports bar. It sounds like, and watch those games. So this almost sounds like or it is very similar to what's happened in some other sports where NFL has games on Amazon Prime for Major League Baseball is using Apple TV plus and you almost have to and I know is is a baseball fan who subscribes to MLB TV There's a lot of frustration with baseball fans because you're paying for this baseball package but once a week games might end up on Apple TV Plus and it's almost diluting those packages.
Have you heard any concerns from anybody regarding these, you know, exclusivity to like a peacock, which isn't part of traditional cable or at the very least, you know, you can't bust out the rabbit ears and attach it to your TV and just watched over the network airwaves. Any any concerns out there that you've heard of? I'm sure once we get closer to the season and teams, fans of teams find out that, oh, this is a peacock on the game, I'm sure that there will be some frustrations with that.
But right now it's, you know, fans are just excited for football to come back and they aren't necessarily caring just yet what network their game will be on. But once we roll around to when the games are actually happening and you're trying to figure out what channel it's going to be on, I'm sure people will be frustrated. Absolutely.
And people will let you know and you'll probably follow up on that as it happens. Yeah, we're we're obviously focused very much on football because it is you know, college football season is about to take off. But, you know, this deal isn't just for football. This is Big Ten for all their sports. Correct. So this is we're talking about men's and women's basketball, other sports.
So what can we expect to see when we move forward to basketball season? Yeah. So plenty of Big Ten basketball games that aired on CBS in the past. So that won't necessarily change. And then, you know, if a Big Ten team is involved in Multi-Team tournaments like the ESPN one, for example, obviously those games will be on ESPN.
If they play a non-conference road game, then you know, that will be, you know, aired on whatever, you know, networks that the road team is partnered with. So men's basketball, those games will air on either Fox, CBS, FS1, BTN or Big Ten plus. And then some games will be exclusively streamed on Peacock too, so we'll know more about that as a, you know, the the process for figuring out where those games go.
We'll figure out more on that as we get closer to the season. And then women's basketball games will air on either Fox, FS1, BTN, BTN Plus and Peacock. There may be some additional broadcast opportunities on other platforms, but they haven't quite figured that one out yet. Again, not quite there yet on the season. So that's going to be interesting to see as that, you know, plays out as games get, you know, scheduled and, you know, slotted to see where those end up, how many are solely on streaming versus, you know, on national television.
But again, like the big saying for that is, you know, if a Big Ten team plays a non-conference team on the road, then those games could air on ABC or ESPN or like women's basketball fans in Nebraska saw last year a top 25 game with Nebraska women's basketball at a top 25 team in Creighton Women's basketball that was exclusively streamed out below sports.
So fans have been, you know, frustrated by that in the past. But that's just how it works sometimes as far as Olympic sports, like volleyball, big, big sport in the Big Ten, those will be Big Ten Network, the Fox Family of Networks and BTN Plus, and then your local stations as well. Peacock will not be exclusively streaming on big sports just yet, but that's something that they're going to look at in the future.
They are so far the Olympic sports coverage, you know, other than volleyball I think has been getting Big Ten Network airing all of those championships. And I think this is my personal opinion. I think the Big Ten could do more with volleyball and the national audiences seeing merit. The national championship will be on ABC this year for volleyball, which is really exciting.
So if a Big Ten team is in there, then obviously you're going to be watching them on ABC. And I hope personally, I hope that that is really successful because the more women's sports that are on national television, I think the better. Yeah. I'm based in Madison, Wisconsin, so obviously a couple of years ago, the women's volleyball team winning the national title.
That was huge and got tremendous exposure. So you can really see how well that played on TV. And it was it was fun to watch. So it's good to see that those opportunities are going to be out there for not just football, because that's what everybody always talks about. It's football and it's college basketball because they're the big, big money drivers.
But obviously you have a lot of athletes in many different sports that don't necessarily get that level of of TV exposure that you would see or would like to see. Anything else you learned or found interesting on this story that you put together? I just think it's fascinating how this all comes together. It's a really complicated process to figure out what games go on, what network at what time, and just seeing that in action, I think it's really fascinating for me personally with so many different networks, you know, because it's not just CBS, it's obviously of the Big Ten network of CBS.
Yeah. FOX Are there any times where these networks, they butt heads and, you know, we want this game, but no, no, we're going to we want this game instead or or does it break down pretty evenly over the course of the season? Everybody wants Michigan, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Like everybody was thinking like everybody wants those big games, right?
So yeah, I'm sure there's, you know, standing on the table metaphorically, of course, maybe. Actually, I'm not sure. But, you know, at the end of the day, regardless of what network these games are on, it's going to be a good product for fans. And that's what the Big Ten is after, is making sure that, you know, they're doing creative and well-done programing regardless of if it's on FOX, Fox Sports one, CBS, NBC, Peacock, the Big Ten Network, they want their product to be well represented.
And I think that with any of these networks, they can't go wrong. On that note, we will wrap up. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you.
We hope you enjoyed this latest episode of Behind the Headlines. You can find us on every podcast platform and we'd love it if you could take a moment to subscribe and leave a review. Finally, if you appreciate what we're doing with this program, we encourage you to invest in local journalism by supporting the newspaper in your community. I'm Terry Lipshetz, thanking you so much for listening to Behind the headlines from the Enterprises.

Changes to Big Ten include new TV contract with CBS

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics.

In this latest episode, Patrick Wilson, a reporter for Lee Enterprises Public Service Journalism team, talks about his reporting on the Virginia State Police.

After spending at least $1.6 million over a decade for the purpose of recruiting minority troopers, the percentage of sworn Black employees of the Virginia State Police dropped, according to department data. Black troopers made up 10% of the department in 2013. Today, that figure is 9%.

We discuss the data and more details included in the story.

Read the story

Virginia State Police loses Black troopers even after diversity focus

About this program

Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, he produces the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, co-hosts Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the producer of Across the Sky weather and climate podcast.

Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. Learn more here.

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics.
In this latest episode, Patrick Wilson, a reporter for Lee Enterprises Public Service Journalism team, talks about <a href="https://richmond.com/news/state-regional/crime-courts/virginia-state-police-loses-black-troopers-even-after-diversity-focus/article_b24c0bc0-1a11-54ad-ba3a-d21905a6e21b.html">his reporting on the Virginia State Police</a>.
After spending at least $1.6 million over a decade for the purpose of recruiting minority troopers, the percentage of sworn Black employees of the Virginia State Police dropped, according to department data. Black troopers made up 10% of the department in 2013. Today, that figure is 9%.
We discuss the data and more details included <a href="https://richmond.com/news/state-regional/crime-courts/virginia-state-police-loses-black-troopers-even-after-diversity-focus/article_b24c0bc0-1a11-54ad-ba3a-d21905a6e21b.html">in the story</a>.
Read the story
<a href="https://richmond.com/news/state-regional/crime-courts/virginia-state-police-loses-black-troopers-even-after-diversity-focus/article_b24c0bc0-1a11-54ad-ba3a-d21905a6e21b.html">Virginia State Police loses Black troopers even after diversity focus</a>
About this program
Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a> program, he produces the daily <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire</a> news podcast, co-hosts <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/just-to-be-nominated">Streamed &amp; Screened </a>movies and television program and is the producer of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/across-the-sky">Across the Sky</a> weather and climate podcast.
Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. <a href="https://linktr.ee/leepodcasts">Learn more here</a>.

Virginia State Police struggling to improve diversity within ranks

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics.

In this latest episode, Molly Parker, a reporter for Lee Enterprises Public Service Journalism team, talks about her reporting of the state of institutional care for people with developmental disabilities in the state of Illinois.

The Illinois State Police division that looks into alleged criminal wrongdoing by state employees spends more time investigating workers at seven residential centers than it does at any other department’s workplaces, including state prisons.

Molly discusses the types of abuse reported and what is being done to improve the situation. 

About this program

Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, he produces the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, co-hosts Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the producer of Across the Sky weather and climate podcast.

Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. Learn more here.

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics.
In this latest episode, Molly Parker, a reporter for Lee Enterprises Public Service Journalism team, talks about her reporting of the state of institutional care for people with developmental disabilities in the state of Illinois.
The Illinois State Police division that looks into alleged criminal wrongdoing by state employees spends more time investigating workers at seven residential centers than it does at any other department’s workplaces, including state prisons.
Molly discusses the types of abuse reported and what is being done to improve the situation. 
About this program
Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a> program, he produces the daily <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire</a> news podcast, co-hosts <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/just-to-be-nominated">Streamed &amp; Screened </a>movies and television program and is the producer of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/across-the-sky">Across the Sky</a> weather and climate podcast.
Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. <a href="https://linktr.ee/leepodcasts">Learn more here</a>.

Ending abuse, neglect at developmental care centers in Illinois

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics.

In this latest episode, Hayleigh Colombo, a reporter for Lee Enterprises Public Service Journalism team, talks about a story she’s working on about PFAS, which are frequently referred to as “Forever Chemicals.” PFAS are found in rivers, lakes, streams, make their way into drinking water and have been linked to numerous health problems.

We discuss the story, which focuses in on levels found in New York water supplies, efforts at the federal and state level to filter out PFAS, and the options people have to reduce exposure.

READ MORE: PFAS ‘forever’ chemicals found in nearly 300 New York water systems at unsafe levels

About this program

Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, he produces the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, co-hosts Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the producer of Across the Sky weather and climate podcast.

Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. Learn more here.

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics.
In this latest episode, Hayleigh Colombo, a reporter for Lee Enterprises Public Service Journalism team, talks about a story she’s working on about PFAS, which are frequently referred to as “Forever Chemicals.” PFAS are found in rivers, lakes, streams, make their way into drinking water and have been linked to numerous health problems.
We discuss the story, which focuses in on levels found in New York water supplies, efforts at the federal and state level to filter out PFAS, and the options people have to reduce exposure.
READ MORE: <a href="https://buffalonews.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/pfas-forever-chemicals-new-york-drinking-water-systems/article_bdeb44fb-f0a9-5fe7-b6ad-70d2c4f84cf7.html#tracking-source=home-top-story">PFAS ‘forever’ chemicals found in nearly 300 New York water systems at unsafe levels</a>
About this program
Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a> program, he produces the daily <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire</a> news podcast, co-hosts <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/just-to-be-nominated">Streamed &amp; Screened </a>movies and television program and is the producer of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/across-the-sky">Across the Sky</a> weather and climate podcast.
Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. <a href="https://linktr.ee/leepodcasts">Learn more here</a>.

PFAS pose a health risk. What is being done to reduce these 'forever chemicals' in drinking water?

In the three years since the murder of George Floyd was caught on a bystander’s phone camera, law enforcement agencies large and small across the nation have invested in body-worn cameras and dashboard cameras for patrol vehicles.

As part of a seven-month investigation, Lee Enterprises and Type Investigations reached out to more than 170 law enforcement agencies across much of the United States seeking information on topics including diversity, citizen complaints and the use of cameras.

READ MORE: Camera use by local police departments rises, but are they worth it? Experts disagree

Of the 142 agencies that answered questions on camera availability or use, 93 said they had both body and dashboard cameras for at least one of their members and vehicles.

Twenty-four agencies said they had bodycams but no dashcams. Sixteen said they had only dashcams. Only seven said they had neither bodycams nor dashcams.

Our guest today is reporter Karen Robinson-Jacobs, a member of the Public Service Journalism team at Lee Enterprises and a fellow at Type Investigations, who has been working on the story. We discuss the research process as well as the findings.

About this program

Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, he produces the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, co-hosts Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the producer of Across the Sky weather and climate podcast.

Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. Learn more here.

In the three years since the murder of George Floyd was caught on a bystander’s phone camera, law enforcement agencies large and small across the nation have invested in body-worn cameras and dashboard cameras for patrol vehicles.
As part of a seven-month investigation, Lee Enterprises and Type Investigations reached out to more than 170 law enforcement agencies across much of the United States seeking information on topics including diversity, citizen complaints and the use of cameras.
<a href="https://journalstar.com/news/state-regional/crime-courts/dashcam-body-camera-use-police-accountability/article_5f287043-b5f2-54ee-8c2f-57637ef297d9.html">READ MORE: Camera use by local police departments rises, but are they worth it? Experts disagree</a>
Of the 142 agencies that answered questions on camera availability or use, 93 said they had both body and dashboard cameras for at least one of their members and vehicles.
Twenty-four agencies said they had bodycams but no dashcams. Sixteen said they had only dashcams. Only seven said they had neither bodycams nor dashcams.
Our guest today is reporter Karen Robinson-Jacobs, a member of the Public Service Journalism team at Lee Enterprises and a fellow at Type Investigations, who has been working on the story. We discuss the research process as well as the findings.
About this program
Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a> program, he produces the daily <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire</a> news podcast, co-hosts <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/just-to-be-nominated">Streamed &amp; Screened </a>movies and television program and is the producer of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/across-the-sky">Across the Sky</a> weather and climate podcast.
Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. <a href="https://linktr.ee/leepodcasts">Learn more here</a>.

Use of body cameras, dash cams by law enforcement varies

Nearly three quarters of more than 100 law enforcement agencies across much of the U.S. don't reflect the racial makeup of their communities, data supplied by the departments to Lee Enterprises shows.

As part of an investigation by Lee and Type Investigations, agencies were ranked based on the gap between the proportion of officers and leadership in the agency who identify as people of color and the percentage of people of color in the communities they serve. Of 105 departments that serve diverse communities, 76 under-represent their percentages of people of color by 10 points or more. Some have gaps of more than 30 percentage points. The largest gap, just more than 43 percentage points, is in Martinsville, Virginia.

READ MORE: 3 years after George Floyd's death, are local police as diverse as their communities?

Our guest today is reporter Karen Robinson-Jacobs, a member of the Public Service Journalism team at Lee Enterprises and a fellow at Type Investigations, who has been working on the story. We discuss the research process as well as the findings.

If you appreciate what we’re doing with this program, we encourage you to invest in local journalism by supporting the newspaper in your community.

About this program

Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, he produces the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, co-hosts Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the producer of Across the Sky weather and climate podcast.

Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. Learn more here.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics. Nearly three quarters of more than 100 law enforcement agencies across much of the U.S. don't reflect the racial makeup of their communities. Data supplied by the departments to Lee Enterprises shows. As part of an investigation by Lee and type investigations, agencies were ranked based on the gap between the proportion of officers in leadership in the agency who identify as people of color and the percentage of people of color in the communities they serve.

Of 105 departments that serve diverse communities, 76 underrepresented their percentages and people of color by ten points or more. Our guest today is reporter Karen Robinson Jacobs, a member of the public service journalism team at Lee Enterprises and a fellow at Type Investigations who has been working on the story. We discussed the research process as well as the findings.

We are welcoming Karen Robinson Jacobs, an investigative reporter for Lee Enterprises and a fellow with type investigations. Karen, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're reporting on? Absolutely. We are wrapping up a seven month investigation, looking at law enforcement in about 15 states and looking at them through a number of different lenses and to just sort of backtrack.

May 23rd is going to be the third anniversary of the murder of George Floyd by a former police officer in Minneapolis. And that was in the summer of 2020. So back in the summer of 2020, after weeks of protests that numerous cities in the United States, Lee's Midwest papers decided to look at how represented to law enforcement in those areas were of the communities that they served.

How diverse are they? How much does diversity match the diversity of the communities that they serve? So in many respects, this project, which is a joint project between Lee Enterprises and type investigations, where I am a fellow, is an expansion of the 2020 effort, but also a follow on look to see what has happened in the past three years.

How many total agencies did you request information from and what kind of responses you get back? We reached out to more than 180 agencies in at least 15 states. We sent them essentially a two page form. Reporters and editors throughout Lee got together and looked at beyond diversity of the ranks. What else did we need to know? We wanted to know.

For example, this time we looked at diversity of leadership. We zeroed in on whether departments are using body cams and dash cams, and we added this time. Where did that money come from? What are your policies in terms of consumer access, citizen access to that data? How long did the information sell between need? Not all of us at Lee.

We came up with about a two page questionnaire. We sent that out to again over 180 departments and about 100 just just under 150 sent the form back with some thing on it. Some departments answered many of the questions. Some departments answered almost none of the questions. And so it's it's it's really a range. And so from there, what we did was looked at the areas in which we had a substantial enough response that we thought we could determine some pattern.

So, for example, the number one question that was answered had to do with use of cameras. And that was about I think we had about 126 answers on that. We had about 120 answers on diversity in the force and about 95 answers on diversity of leadership. So what the departments were willing to reveal varied by department. We had some departments that just gave us the answers initially, like it's done as we reached out this lecture.

Easy peasy. Some required us to file a Freedom of Information Act request or whatever the state equivalent is, and some just ghosted us. Did you get any forms back? You said some sent you reforms back with very little information. Were there any that just simply sent them back and said We declined to respond. There were some that sent the form back and didn't give us any information.

What they said is, you know, you will have to follow up with this person and that person and you'll have to file up and you'll have to give us, you know, a lot of money. There were some that were asking for hundreds of dollars to perform the data search for us. So if they send it back and it didn't contain any, you know, numbers, it was more like we're going to make you work harder to get this information.

And some agencies were pretty upfront about supplying the information. I will say the pattern is a lot of the smaller ones, because, you know, for example, we were asking, you know, what was the racial breakdown of the department In the department is six people that are and, you know, it's not going to take us a really long time to figure that out.

One of the things that and I note this in the story is in some cases, the members of the department don't self-identify. So we're really depending on the leadership of the department to say, you know, yeah, Karen, looks like this person looks white. So there are a number of departments that said specifically, we don't ask people to self-identify.

And so this is the best that we can give you. The Department of Justice also looks into this, and I believe they run up against that same issue that that departments do not. Some departments don't ask their members to stop identify. Interesting. So what would be the largest organization that got back to you with information that you could really dive into that was substantial.

Our largest department was the New York State Police, which covers the whole state, and they got a force around more than 4700. And they gave us a lot of information. They gave us racial demographic information. They also gave us leadership information. Also, our smallest was in Lewiston, Minnesota. It has six members and it is 100% white in a community that is not very diverse.

What kind of conclusions were you able to draw from data that you were able to obtain? The main conclusions that we drew is that despite protests following the shooting death of Michael Brown, which, you know, takes us all the way back to 2014, and then more recently, despite the murder of George Floyd, you know, we found dozens of departments where people of color are living with the department that looks nothing like them, and that has all kinds of implications.

You know, one of the most obvious ones is it has implications for trust, the ability of the community to really trust that they are being treated fairly. They are being treated the same as they would be treated if they were not people of color. But then it also kind of, you know, filters into other things like arrest patterns and incarceration patterns and it is a broader issue than just these departments.

You know, the United States is home to about 5% of the world's population, but it accounts for 25% of the world's prisoners. And, you know, not all incarceration begins with arrests, but a lot of it. And one of the things that we found, for example, we found a number of studies that show that in more diverse departments with more black and brown officers, there are fewer arrests or low level things like broken tail light or some issue with your tag or something like that.

And we have seen numerous incidents where something that seems like a small infraction can end up with serious consequences and black and brown citizens being significantly harmed. So I think that it really does reinforce that one enforcement, even an industry, still has a ways to go to be reflective of the community. And I should say this overall law enforcement, particularly in the last several years, they've had difficulty recruiting anybody.

And then they talk about this a lot and they have a lot of reasons why they feel that it is difficult. But their point is we would love to hire people of color. We would love to hire people, any people, any people who will, you know, meet our qualifications and standards and apply and be hired. We would love to hire them.

And I think what that means is that as departments do continue to try to diversify, they're going to have to be more aggressive and they're also going to have to be more creative. Did you get any insight as to what is leading to difficulty in recruiting police officers of the experts that we spoke with? They mentioned a number of things.

One of them being when there is a tragic incident where someone is killed at the hands of the police or law enforcement in general, and the perception of the community is that it is it was unfair. The person was unarmed or something like that. The news coverage that follows those incidents does not paint that law enforcement agency in a very positive light.

They use the term vilified that police are being vilified. I would disagree that it is vilification, but it is very pointed, sharp coverage of these incidents. And why do they keep happening? I mean, you know, The Washington Post has a very extensive database of citizens who are killed by law enforcement and people of color are disproportionately represented. And those are blacks.

So part of it is they don't look very good following these incidents and then they're just the regular parts of the job. Often you have to work nights, although pay is increasing, you make more money doing something else and you are putting your life on the line. So you take the problems that are inherent to the job and layer on to that.

There are many, many people in the country who have a very negative view of law enforcement because of some of these incidents. And so for some people, they're like men past. That makes sense. You mentioned that some of these communities are having a difficult time recruiting and that they're trying to improve on that. Have you gotten any sense as to what those opportunities are?

They are they looking at increasing pay or are they trying to just paint their own departments in a better light? Anything like that? There are a number of efforts we spoke extensively with the department in Greensboro, which is home to a number of HBCU's. They have established close relationships with these schools and are trying to create almost a pipeline from the, you know, criminal justice program that the schools to the departments, some departments are increasing their use of technology.

They're doing some of the initial testing where previously you would have to come to the department and sit in a room and test. They're trying to do more of that remotely and using technology to do that so you can attract people who can't necessarily come down for however many days. It would take and take a bunch of tests because of whatever being as a child care or whatever.

So they're relying more on technology. So there are departments who are trying to be a lot more creative and thinking more broadly about, you know, where to find people, and then taking a look at what our testing looks like. I talked to one police chief who noticed that in one of the questions asked about a cupboard and a number of the people of color who took that test didn't know what a cupboard was because in my house it's called a pantry was college.

And so looking more closely at things like that, like are we really casting our net as wide as we can? That's interesting. In looking at the various responses that you got back, are there any larger police forces that are, even if they're not 100%, one for one, reflective of their community, relatively close or in, you know, a ballpark that would seem acceptable In Madison, Wisconsin, the force is just under 500, 488.

And the representation of people of color in the community is about 28%. Representation of people of color on the force is about 23%. So that's only a gap of about 5%. So that we would consider that a representative department for our purposes. Anything that was plus or minus ten percentage points. We would consider that a representative department. I think where we started to really see, you know, some gaps is when you're looking at gaps of something like, you know, 44 percentage points, 40 percentage points, 36, that's a pretty significant gap.

Martinsville Police Department in Virginia, the people of color in the population is 57.5%. People of color on the force is 13% about to get over 40 percentage points. And so they they have a new police chief who, I am told, considers this a priority. So in many and one of the things that's good about this project is that it gives us a really robust database that we can go back to over time and see, okay, you know, three years from now, how is Martinsville doing?

How successful was the new chief in expanding the ranks of people of color? You know, the kind of brings me to my next question. You were gathering this information for the past seven months. Were you able to get any sense of any change that's already in the works? Like, did you get any data points back from a police force that showed where they were maybe so many years ago?

And then now there's some sort of substantial change? Have you been able to get any of that kind of information yet? Well, we didn't really have as much correlation as I would have liked between the departments that we looked at in 2020. And these we had a number that we worked at a 2020 who ghosted us this time.

But anecdotally, we spoke with one department where they ride, I believe it was the majority of their incoming class of recruits were people of color. And that was the first time that that had happened for this department. So individually, there definitely are success stories. There are, you know, departments that are trying new things and reaching out in new places.

And they don't feel like they are being successful individually. Individual departments. Yes. I think when you look overall, the overall picture shows that we still have a little ways to go. So looking forward a little bit, what are the next steps for you in this investigation? So a report will publish. It'll look at the numbers. But what are you looking to do on your end over the coming weeks, months or maybe even years?

Well, again, one of the things that I really love about this is that it gives us a launch point to look at a number of other issues we look specifically or when we use the term diversity. For the most part, we were looking at racial and ethnic diversity. However, there are a number of studies that look at the impact of women on the force in departments where there are more women use of force, complaints go down.

So we'd like to look at that. We also actually asked about the number of sworn members who identify as a gender other than male or female. We did not get a single person in any person in any department that identifies either as a gender other than male and female. And that is in an environment where we see crimes against members of the LGBTQ community growing.

So we want to look at that a little bit more closely. You know, we want to go back to some of the departments that gave us some information, but not a map and see if we can create a fuller picture of those departments just to get a more well-rounded sense of what the numbers are really showing us across a number of categories.

So we'll we will be back at it here. And I can't wait to read even more in the future. I really appreciate you taking some time to speak with me today. This is terrific. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Behind the Headlines. You can find us on every podcast platform and we'd love it if you could take a moment to subscribe and leave a review. Finally, if you appreciate what we're doing with this program, we encourage you to invest in local journalism by supporting the newspaper in your community. I'm Terry Lipshetz.

Thank you so much for listening to behind the headlines from Lee Enterprises.

Nearly three quarters of more than 100 law enforcement agencies across much of the U.S. don't reflect the racial makeup of their communities, data supplied by the departments to Lee Enterprises shows.
As part of an <a href="https://pantagraph.com/news/state-regional/crime-courts/are-local-police-as-diverse-as-the-communities-they-serve/article_fb8564b0-1525-59d6-b75d-e97e1affeaf9.html">investigation by Lee and Type Investigations</a>, agencies were ranked based on the gap between the proportion of officers and leadership in the agency who identify as people of color and the percentage of people of color in the communities they serve. Of 105 departments that serve diverse communities, 76 under-represent their percentages of people of color by 10 points or more. Some have gaps of more than 30 percentage points. The largest gap, just more than 43 percentage points, is in Martinsville, Virginia.
<a href="https://pantagraph.com/news/state-regional/crime-courts/are-local-police-as-diverse-as-the-communities-they-serve/article_fb8564b0-1525-59d6-b75d-e97e1affeaf9.html">READ MORE: 3 years after George Floyd's death, are local police as diverse as their communities?</a>
Our guest today is reporter Karen Robinson-Jacobs, a member of the Public Service Journalism team at Lee Enterprises and a fellow at Type Investigations, who has been working on the story. We discuss the research process as well as the findings.
If you appreciate what we’re doing with this program, we encourage you to invest in local journalism by supporting the newspaper in your community.
About this program
Host Terry Lipshetz is a senior producer for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing interviews for this <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-headlines-pod">Behind the Headlines</a> program, he produces the daily <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire</a> news podcast, co-hosts <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/just-to-be-nominated">Streamed &amp; Screened </a>movies and television program and is the producer of <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/across-the-sky">Across the Sky</a> weather and climate podcast.
Lee Enterprises produces many national, regional and sports podcasts. <a href="https://linktr.ee/leepodcasts">Learn more here</a>.
Episode transcript
Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Headlines, where we feature experts and journalists discussing a variety of topics. Nearly three quarters of more than 100 law enforcement agencies across much of the U.S. don't reflect the racial makeup of their communities. Data supplied by the departments to Lee Enterprises shows. As part of an investigation by Lee and type investigations, agencies were ranked based on the gap between the proportion of officers in leadership in the agency who identify as people of color and the percentage of people of color in the communities they serve.
Of 105 departments that serve diverse communities, 76 underrepresented their percentages and people of color by ten points or more. Our guest today is reporter Karen Robinson Jacobs, a member of the public service journalism team at Lee Enterprises and a fellow at Type Investigations who has been working on the story. We discussed the research process as well as the findings.
We are welcoming Karen Robinson Jacobs, an investigative reporter for Lee Enterprises and a fellow with type investigations. Karen, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're reporting on? Absolutely. We are wrapping up a seven month investigation, looking at law enforcement in about 15 states and looking at them through a number of different lenses and to just sort of backtrack.
May 23rd is going to be the third anniversary of the murder of George Floyd by a former police officer in Minneapolis. And that was in the summer of 2020. So back in the summer of 2020, after weeks of protests that numerous cities in the United States, Lee's Midwest papers decided to look at how represented to law enforcement in those areas were of the communities that they served.
How diverse are they? How much does diversity match the diversity of the communities that they serve? So in many respects, this project, which is a joint project between Lee Enterprises and type investigations, where I am a fellow, is an expansion of the 2020 effort, but also a follow on look to see what has happened in the past three years.
How many total agencies did you request information from and what kind of responses you get back? We reached out to more than 180 agencies in at least 15 states. We sent them essentially a two page form. Reporters and editors throughout Lee got together and looked at beyond diversity of the ranks. What else did we need to know? We wanted to know.
For example, this time we looked at diversity of leadership. We zeroed in on whether departments are using body cams and dash cams, and we added this time. Where did that money come from? What are your policies in terms of consumer access, citizen access to that data? How long did the information sell between need? Not all of us at Lee.
We came up with about a two page questionnaire. We sent that out to again over 180 departments and about 100 just just under 150 sent the form back with some thing on it. Some departments answered many of the questions. Some departments answered almost none of the questions. And so it's it's it's really a range. And so from there, what we did was looked at the areas in which we had a substantial enough response that we thought we could determine some pattern.
So, for example, the number one question that was answered had to do with use of cameras. And that was about I think we had about 126 answers on that. We had about 120 answers on diversity in the force and about 95 answers on diversity of leadership. So what the departments were willing to reveal varied by department. We had some departments that just gave us the answers initially, like it's done as we reached out this lecture.
Easy peasy. Some required us to file a Freedom of Information Act request or whatever the state equivalent is, and some just ghosted us. Did you get any forms back? You said some sent you reforms back with very little information. Were there any that just simply sent them back and said We declined to respond. There were some that sent the form back and didn't give us any information.
What they said is, you know, you will have to follow up with this person and that person and you'll have to file up and you'll have to give us, you know, a lot of money. There were some that were asking for hundreds of dollars to perform the data search for us. So if they send it back and it didn't contain any, you know, numbers, it was more like we're going to make you work harder to get this information.
And some agencies were pretty upfront about supplying the information. I will say the pattern is a lot of the smaller ones, because, you know, for example, we were asking, you know, what was the racial breakdown of the department In the department is six people that are and, you know, it's not going to take us a really long time to figure that out.
One of the things that and I note this in the story is in some cases, the members of the department don't self-identify. So we're really depending on the leadership of the department to say, you know, yeah, Karen, looks like this person looks white. So there are a number of departments that said specifically, we don't ask people to self-identify.
And so this is the best that we can give you. The Department of Justice also looks into this, and I believe they run up against that same issue that that departments do not. Some departments don't ask their members to stop identify. Interesting. So what would be the largest organization that got back to you with information that you could really dive into that was substantial.
Our largest department was the New York State Police, which covers the whole state, and they got a force around more than 4700. And they gave us a lot of information. They gave us racial demographic information. They also gave us leadership information. Also, our smallest was in Lewiston, Minnesota. It has six members and it is 100% white in a community that is not very diverse.
What kind of conclusions were you able to draw from data that you were able to obtain? The main conclusions that we drew is that despite protests following the shooting death of Michael Brown, which, you know, takes us all the way back to 2014, and then more recently, despite the murder of George Floyd, you know, we found dozens of departments where people of color are living with the department that looks nothing like them, and that has all kinds of implications.
You know, one of the most obvious ones is it has implications for trust, the ability of the community to really trust that they are being treated fairly. They are being treated the same as they would be treated if they were not people of color. But then it also kind of, you know, filters into other things like arrest patterns and incarceration patterns and it is a broader issue than just these departments.
You know, the United States is home to about 5% of the world's population, but it accounts for 25% of the world's prisoners. And, you know, not all incarceration begins with arrests, but a lot of it. And one of the things that we found, for example, we found a number of studies that show that in more diverse departments with more black and brown officers, there are fewer arrests or low level things like broken tail light or some issue with your tag or something like that.
And we have seen numerous incidents where something that seems like a small infraction can end up with serious consequences and black and brown citizens being significantly harmed. So I think that it really does reinforce that one enforcement, even an industry, still has a ways to go to be reflective of the community. And I should say this overall law enforcement, particularly in the last several years, they've had difficulty recruiting anybody.
And then they talk about this a lot and they have a lot of reasons why they feel that it is difficult. But their point is we would love to hire people of color. We would love to hire people, any people, any people who will, you know, meet our qualifications and standards and apply and be hired. We would love to hire them.
And I think what that means is that as departments do continue to try to diversify, they're going to have to be more aggressive and they're also going to have to be more creative. Did you get any insight as to what is leading to difficulty in recruiting police officers of the experts that we spoke with? They mentioned a number of things.
One of them being when there is a tragic incident where someone is killed at the hands of the police or law enforcement in general, and the perception of the community is that it is it was unfair. The person was unarmed or something like that. The news coverage that follows those incidents does not paint that law enforcement agency in a very positive light.
They use the term vilified that police are being vilified. I would disagree that it is vilification, but it is very pointed, sharp coverage of these incidents. And why do they keep happening? I mean, you know, The Washington Post has a very extensive database of citizens who are killed by law enforcement and people of color are disproportionately represented. And those are blacks.
So part of it is they don't look very good following these incidents and then they're just the regular parts of the job. Often you have to work nights, although pay is increasing, you make more money doing something else and you are putting your life on the line. So you take the problems that are inherent to the job and layer on to that.
There are many, many people in the country who have a very negative view of law enforcement because of some of these incidents. And so for some people, they're like men past. That makes sense. You mentioned that some of these communities are having a difficult time recruiting and that they're trying to improve on that. Have you gotten any sense as to what those opportunities are?
They are they looking at increasing pay or are they trying to just paint their own departments in a better light? Anything like that? There are a number of efforts we spoke extensively with the department in Greensboro, which is home to a number of HBCU's. They have established close relationships with these schools and are trying to create almost a pipeline from the, you know, criminal justice program that the schools to the departments, some departments are increasing their use of technology.
They're doing some of the initial testing where previously you would have to come to the department and sit in a room and test. They're trying to do more of that remotely and using technology to do that so you can attract people who can't necessarily come down for however many days. It would take and take a bunch of tests because of whatever being as a child care or whatever.
So they're relying more on technology. So there are departments who are trying to be a lot more creative and thinking more broadly about, you know, where to find people, and then taking a look at what our testing looks like. I talked to one police chief who noticed that in one of the questions asked about a cupboard and a number of the people of color who took that test didn't know what a cupboard was because in my house it's called a pantry was college.
And so looking more closely at things like that, like are we really casting our net as wide as we can? That's interesting. In looking at the various responses that you got back, are there any larger police forces that are, even if they're not 100%, one for one, reflective of their community, relatively close or in, you know, a ballpark that would seem acceptable In Madison, Wisconsin, the force is just under 500, 488.
And the representation of people of color in the community is about 28%. Representation of people of color on the force is about 23%. So that's only a gap of about 5%. So that we would consider that a representative department for our purposes. Anything that was plus or minus ten percentage points. We would consider that a representative department. I think where we started to really see, you know, some gaps is when you're looking at gaps of something like, you know, 44 percentage points, 40 percentage points, 36, that's a pretty significant gap.
Martinsville Police Department in Virginia, the people of color in the population is 57.5%. People of color on the force is 13% about to get over 40 percentage points. And so they they have a new police chief who, I am told, considers this a priority. So in many and one of the things that's good about this project is that it gives us a really robust database that we can go back to over time and see, okay, you know, three years from now, how is Martinsville doing?
How successful was the new chief in expanding the ranks of people of color? You know, the kind of brings me to my next question. You were gathering this information for the past seven months. Were you able to get any sense of any change that's already in the works? Like, did you get any data points back from a police force that showed where they were maybe so many years ago?
And then now there's some sort of substantial change? Have you been able to get any of that kind of information yet? Well, we didn't really have as much correlation as I would have liked between the departments that we looked at in 2020. And these we had a number that we worked at a 2020 who ghosted us this time.
But anecdotally, we spoke with one department where they ride, I believe it was the majority of their incoming class of recruits were people of color. And that was the first time that that had happened for this department. So individually, there definitely are success stories. There are, you know, departments that are trying new things and reaching out in new places.
And they don't feel like they are being successful individually. Individual departments. Yes. I think when you look overall, the overall picture shows that we still have a little ways to go. So looking forward a little bit, what are the next steps for you in this investigation? So a report will publish. It'll look at the numbers. But what are you looking to do on your end over the coming weeks, months or maybe even years?
Well, again, one of the things that I really love about this is that it gives us a launch point to look at a number of other issues we look specifically or when we use the term diversity. For the most part, we were looking at racial and ethnic diversity. However, there are a number of studies that look at the impact of women on the force in departments where there are more women use of force, complaints go down.
So we'd like to look at that. We also actually asked about the number of sworn members who identify as a gender other than male or female. We did not get a single person in any person in any department that identifies either as a gender other than male and female. And that is in an environment where we see crimes against members of the LGBTQ community growing.
So we want to look at that a little bit more closely. You know, we want to go back to some of the departments that gave us some information, but not a map and see if we can create a fuller picture of those departments just to get a more well-rounded sense of what the numbers are really showing us across a number of categories.
So we'll we will be back at it here. And I can't wait to read even more in the future. I really appreciate you taking some time to speak with me today. This is terrific. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Behind the Headlines. You can find us on every podcast platform and we'd love it if you could take a moment to subscribe and leave a review. Finally, if you appreciate what we're doing with this program, we encourage you to invest in local journalism by supporting the newspaper in your community. I'm Terry Lipshetz.
Thank you so much for listening to behind the headlines from Lee Enterprises.

How well do police forces represent racial makeup of their communities?

(Originally published Feb. 7 as part of the Hot off the Wire podcast.)

An 1835 treaty between the Cherokee Nation and United States that led to the death of thousands on the Trail of Tears included a provision that would allow the Cherokee to seat a delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Nearly 200 years later, the Cherokee have renewed calls for Congress to honor the treaty and seat its delegate.

But what would that mean for the Cherokee Nation as well as other tribes not covered by that treaty? What issues would a delegate focus on as a non-voting member of Congress?

Dr. Julie Reed, an Associate Professor in History at Penn State University and a citizen of of the Cherokee Nation, recently wrote an article for The Conversation called: 

Cherokee Nation wants to send a delegate to the House – it’s an idea older than Congress itself.

That article serves as an entry point for a discussion on the topic between Reed and Terry Lipshetz, senior producer for Lee Enterprises and host of Hot off the Wire.

(Originally published Feb. 7 as part of the <a href="https://omny.fm/shows/hot-off-the-wire">Hot off the Wire podcast</a>.)
An 1835 treaty between the Cherokee Nation and United States that led to the death of thousands on the Trail of Tears included a provision that would allow the Cherokee to seat a delegate in the U.S. House of Representatives.
Nearly 200 years later, the Cherokee have renewed calls for Congress to honor the treaty and seat its delegate.
But what would that mean for the Cherokee Nation as well as other tribes not covered by that treaty? What issues would a delegate focus on as a non-voting member of Congress?
Dr. Julie Reed, an Associate Professor in History at Penn State University and a citizen of of the Cherokee Nation, recently wrote an article for The Conversation called: 
<a href="https://theconversation.com/cherokee-nation-wants-to-send-a-delegate-to-the-house-its-an-idea-older-than-congress-itself-191738 ">Cherokee Nation wants to send a delegate to the House – it’s an idea older than Congress itself</a>.
That article serves as an entry point for a discussion on the topic between Reed and Terry Lipshetz, senior producer for Lee Enterprises and host of Hot off the Wire.

Will the Cherokee Nation send a delegate to the U.S. House?

In October, billionaire business magnate and investor Elon Musk completed his purchase of the social media platform Twitter. Since that time a variety of moves to cut costs as well as try and generate more revenue for the platform have led some to wonder whether Musk’s acquisition was the beginning of the end for popular microblogging site. 

While Twitter has many critics, Dr. Anjana Susarla,Professor of Information Systems at Michigan State University, is raising concerns over a world without Twitter as the platform has proven to be an important source of real-time information as well as geotagged data. 

Susarla recently wrote an article for The Conversation that serves as a launching pad for a discussion with Lee Enterprises senior producer Terry Lipshetz:

What the world would lose with the demise of Twitter: Valuable eyewitness accounts and raw data on human behavior, as well as a habitat for trolls.

In October, billionaire business magnate and investor Elon Musk completed his purchase of the social media platform Twitter. Since that time a variety of moves to cut costs as well as try and generate more revenue for the platform have led some to wonder whether Musk’s acquisition was the beginning of the end for popular microblogging site. 
While Twitter has many critics, Dr. Anjana Susarla,Professor of Information Systems at Michigan State University, is raising concerns over a world without Twitter as the platform has proven to be an important source of real-time information as well as geotagged data. 
Susarla recently wrote an article for <a href="https://theconversation.com/us">The Conversation</a> that serves as a launching pad for a discussion with Lee Enterprises senior producer <a href="https://madison.com/users/profile/terry.lipshetz">Terry Lipshetz</a>:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/what-the-world-would-lose-with-the-demise-of-twitter-valuable-eyewitness-accounts-and-raw-data-on-human-behavior-as-well-as-a-habitat-for-trolls-194601">What the world would lose with the demise of Twitter: Valuable eyewitness accounts and raw data on human behavior, as well as a habitat for trolls</a>.

Rooting for Twitter to fail? We could lose valuable data if that happens

Our host Teri Barr is talking with Sydney Brown (twitter), Education Reporter for The Daily News in Longview, Washington, about the issue of dress codes in some schools.

Sydney learned why the dress codes are not consistent across one school district, how it's leading to a disruption in education, particularly for girls, and what some parents want done about it.

Here's Sydney's original article:
Parents, students at Longview's R.A. Long are asking school officials to change 'sexist' dress code

And you can find follow-up articles at her TDN page here:
Sydney Brown

Behind the Headlines is a product of Lee Enterprises. This episode was produced, recorded and hosted by Teri Barr, with editing by Chris Lay.

Our host Teri Barr is talking with <a href="https://tdn.com/users/profile/sydney.brown">Sydney Brown</a> (<a href="https://twitter.com/sydneyreneebk">twitter</a>), Education Reporter for <a href="https://tdn.com/">The Daily News</a> in Longview, Washington, about the issue of dress codes in some schools.
Sydney learned why the dress codes are not consistent across one school district, how it's leading to a disruption in education, particularly for girls, and what some parents want done about it.
Here's Sydney's original article:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://tdn.com/news/local/education/parents-students-at-longviews-r-a-long-are-asking-school-officials-to-change-sexist-dress/article_a1359a86-3e76-11ed-843d-63e20578b9d5.html">Parents, students at Longview's R.A. Long are asking school officials to change 'sexist' dress code</a></li>
</ul>
And you can find follow-up articles at her TDN page here:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://tdn.com/users/profile/sydney.brown">Sydney Brown</a></li>
</ul>
Behind the Headlines is a product of Lee Enterprises. This episode was produced, recorded and hosted by Teri Barr, with editing by Chris Lay.

Fighting unfair 'sexist' school dress codes

Behind the Headlines features interviews with reporters and editors from newspapers owned by Lee Enterprises, including its Public Service Journalism team. Lee Enterprises is a leading provider of local news and information, and a major platform for advertising, with daily newspapers, rapidly-growing digital products, marketing services, innovative technology and nearly 350 weekly and specialty publications serving 77 markets in 26 states.

Behind the Headlines features interviews with reporters and editors from newspapers owned by Lee Enterprises, including its Public Service Journalism team. Lee Enterprises is a leading provider of local news and information, and a major platform for advertising, with daily newspapers, rapidly-growing digital products, marketing services, innovative technology and nearly 350 weekly and specialty publications serving 77 markets in 26 states.<a href="https://www.stltoday.com/"></a>

Behind the Headlines

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