Come on, Well, that's how you start a podcast. That's how professionals start their professional podcasts. That's their real big boy jobs. That's right, Hey, everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight the Bastards. I'm Jordan's that I am allegedly Robert Evans, but I'm I'm very tired right now and making myself some coffee to get perked up. What do we? What do we? What do we? What do we? What? What are we? What are we? Man? The big questions are what we're going to deal with today. That's how you fucking cast a pod. Welcome to listen. Man. At the quantum level, we don't even know where our fucking electrons are. Man, what are you see? That's that Jordan's that's the title of a whole podcast right there. Can I recommend to you Reset Wars. It's gonna blow your mind. It's the most important work someone's ever done. So, speaking of blown minds, I think Alex's mind has been mind has been blown lately by the idea that there are consequences occasionally for saying things that is true. It can happen, it had it appears to be in the process of happening. He seems to be in the finding out portion of the fucking around. Um, and I guess that's what we're talking about today, is it not, Dan, Yeah, definitely, And I would say in terms of that he got more than his share of fucking around. He certainly did. The ratio of finding out to fucking around is quite low. It's astonishing, really. Yeah. Well, I mean we're yet to see what the damages are in the cases that he's lost, but I mean it could be a huge blow of finding house. But still, like there's a lot of sucking around that didn't end up getting figured out. It's hard not to argue that he really could believe for a long stretch of time that he could funk around without ever having to find out. Yeah, and he could probably convince himself that he was a charmed, lucky person who like is untouchable because basically nothing ever and he and he was. That's a reasonable conclusion to come to until it really wasn't. Well. I mean, it's really safe to be like Hillary Clinton is a demon and sorrows and stuff because they are public figures and they're never going to take the time to respond to anything you say. And who among us has not insisted that Hillary Clinton is a demon in some form or another. I think two or three of us, probably he who has said that's in so uh Robert him talk a little bit about the lawsuits today. Yay, Um, this is exciting to this is very exciting because this is so rarely I guess, I mean, there's You can view this in two ways. One of them is that this is a rare case of a bastard actually getting their come upance, and it it continues to be beautiful to watch unfold. The less optimistic is to actually think about the raw amount of human effort that was necessary for Alex to kind of start to pay the price for the things he's been doing, like because we're pretty early in the finding out period, although we are we are starting to hit the fun part of that. It's yeah, And I think the other thing that's kind of like sour grapes about it is that, like, you know, he's gonna find out, but it's not like he's going to learn his lessons and everybody who listened to him and believed that he was saying something meaningful isn't going to find out along with him. No, it's kind of the disappointing down to earth. And at the same time, though, I mean, there's it's inarguable. I mean you just had Gareth and uh Dave on from the Dollar. Yeah, and I'm fairly certain that he said on your show, like there's something very satisfying about seeing a career grifter finally get his come up and and it's it's impossible to argue that. Yeah, you know it is. It is nice when it happens this exactly the one time that it's happened. Right, there's that catch me if you can kind of like that spirit that we love of of like, oh, he's gonna get away with it. But then also at a certain point you go too far, and yeah, so here we go. Alex is getting sued in multiple cases stemming from his coverage of Sandy Hook in both Texas and Connecticut. He recently settled a case where he was being sued over statements he made about Brennan Gilmore and the Unite the Right rally. He's also facing still facing a case where he's being sued for misidentifying a person named Marcel Fontaine as the Parkland shooter. He's lost all the Sandy Hook cases by default, judgment, and at this point it's just a matter of the jury deciding how much he owes and damages. It's just a money thing. The Texas cases go to trial on April, and if I recall correctly, the Connecticut ones are set for I think it's just one case in Connecticut. It set for this summer. Yeah, I'm not sure when Fontane goes to trial, but Alex is absolutely going to lose that case. He definitely did the thing and he is not taking any of it seriously, which is fun like a default judgment. That's like, I mean, it's slightly more common than football games being called on account of unicorns, right, Like, it doesn't happen fairly. Yeah, yeah, it's it's super rare, except for in cases where people Bills lost all those Super Bowls. There's too many unicorns on the field one one year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think there were three in a row. One was unicorns, one was trolls. Yeah. That Tom Brady got elevated to the quarterback of the Patriots because Doug Flutie was ward by a unicorn. It was brutal, dangerous. Got on the business had word for unicorns, we wouldn't have to deal with that asshole. So yeah, Kid Daniels, the guy who wrote the initial story that identified Fontane as the shooter, sat for a deposition, and at many points he testified things that will read very similarly to a confession in a courtroom setting, So that one is fun that one's screwed. For Alex, there's no hope. There's not much more you can say other than if somebody murdered a guy and you said in your deposition, probably murdered that guy, and Alex told me to exactly, it's not gonna go well after that. This is what most lawyers would call inadvised. Yes. Yeah, I think one of the main misconceptions about the cases against Alex is that they're just about him asking questions about the Sandy Hook shooting, and that is just not the case. There's a lot of things that need to be unpacked, and the first is that the only reason that this case is able to be taken to court is because Owen Shroyer made video was uh, you know, one of them was claiming that it was not possible for Neil Hesslin to have held his son after the shooting, and Alex covered Owen's video on his own show, and they did this in ten. This was in response to Mr Hesslyn appearing in an interview with Megan Kelly discussing the conspiracy theories about his son's death, which obviously angered Info Wars in concert. In concert with this, Erika Lafferty, whose mother was the principle of the school and died in the shooting UH she made a public comment that Trump needed to publicly distance himself from Alex, someone who had traumatized her and many other families. In response to both these things, Owen made videos attacking Hesslin and Lafferty, which Alex reaired other things that Alex had said in for example, those would be outside the statute of limitations, but this re airing of the claims made them fair game. It was a huge strategic error on Alex and Owen's part, But they have just gotten away with everything up to this point. Like we talked about the funk around all the time. Why wouldn't it work. The idea of the strategy is almost anathema to them, so making a strategic error is as something they feel is impossible to do. You know. The second thing that's important to my clear is that Alex and For's were not just asking questions. They were promoting Wolfgang how Big, who is actively harassing the family members of the victims of the shooting. They were helping how Big raise money to fund his activities. They were painting victims family members like Lenny Posner as enemies of the First Amendment and publicly airing the address where he received his mail. They sent Dan Badandhi, a reporter whose only talent is yelling and causing a scene, to Newtown along with Wolfgang how Big, where they harassed people affected by the shooting. Oh yeah, this is okay. When you put it all together like that, it sounds like they were, you know, ghoulishly harassing the parents murdered children. But yeah, when you're taking into account, Dan, is the content I have taken to account? No, I think we've we've been so uh taking into account the content not not not Well, maybe we can talk about this on the next episode of my new show. Robert Evans tracks down people who have losts loved ones and recent tragedies and heckles them from the street corner as an interesting show. It's an interesting show. I am surprised the company is paying for it. Let me tell you I think it didn't mind the room, The pitch didn't sound good. I'm gonna be honest, there's a there's a small chance you would be able to pull this off a satire that was the original pitch for h Jon Benjamin's dog Bites. Man. I'm pretty sure it would be funny to like, well, I don't know, funny maybe the wrong word, but like as a bit to make your thing be like create an Alex Jones conspiracy theory, but about like tuberculosis. But you didn't lose your mom to TV. There's no such thing. Jokes on you. I saw it in the words, there's absolutely no way you're going to get out of this without Multiple times Jordan has come up with like fake, dumb conspiracy ideas and then lo and behold it is impossible. He says, yeah, okay. So I think that there's just like this key distinction that needs to be made between what actually is going on and what they did and the whole idea that we were just asking questions, because I think that that suckers a lot of people in who would be critical of Alex and in for his actions if they understood the fuller picture of what they were engaged in. So basically we have a number of episodes. Uh, it's a series we called Formulaic Objections because in the first one, Alex's lawyer keeps saying objection form, so they came up with the name that way. But we have a bunch of those, and those are long form deconstructions of the depositions themselves. But I brought some clips from these depositions that I thought would be particularly interesting or relevant, uh, to enjoy, to be to be upfront. Uh, this is a very condensed version because we have roughly I think six Formulaic Objections and a total of at least twenty to twenty four hours between those episodes. Probably if if you're like, oh, they weren't they weren't as granular as they could have been, You're goddamn right, we weren't. The the depositions themselves are like six hours long long. UM, so yeah, I I am gonna jump in. Are you Are you prepared? I am? I am. Well, that maybe putting it a little strong, but yes. So one of the things that happens throughout the depositions that Alex is in is he has claims that he's made repeated to him, And the question, obviously is where did this come from? Can you back this claim up? And for someone like Alex, he everything he says is right. He's totally always right. He studies, he researches things, So this shouldn't be a real problem for him in a setting where it's like you finally have your opportunity to prove things under oath. Yeah, this is your moment, bro, Yeah, exactly. And consistently he has no idea and nothing like he just has nothing, never heard of Sandy Hook. So in this first clip I have here, it has to do with a claim that Alex made that Bloomberg had sent out an email just before the Sandy Hook shooting, I think even the night before he says to all of his people to get ready because something big is going to happen and they need to get their gun control agenda squared away. So here is a question about his source, like on that email. Let's talk about that Bloomberg email that comes up this idea that there was an email sent the day before Sandy Hook saying get ready next twenty four hour is there's gonna be a big event that email You've been asked for that email and you say you don't have it right, we were. We were covering reports of the email that was sent out to the activiscripts that have been on the news. Where were you covering it? What do you mean were you're covering it? Um? We were covering the reports of them activating their their their anti gun rights organization. Okay, well, see here's the thing, Mr Jones. At first, I thought there must be some email coincidentally sent on the day before Sandy Hook that Bloomberger as people sent that you must be willfully misinterpreting or something like that. But the problem is, nobody who's looked at this has been able to find any evidence that such an email has ever existed. And I want to know if you can excuse it. Well, I'm just not taking your person that's the case. Well, I'm asking That's why I've asked you questions and discovery and you haven't been able to produce that email to me, have you? Well, you guys are asking it. We have an email in our emails. I was reporting on other news reports about and alert they put out to their group, right, could you find those reports if I identify your source? Um? Well, I mean you can hold back a source if you want to. But I remember being online, I can try to go find that again. What do you mean you can hold back a source if you want to do What does that mean? I mean? I mean if I have a conventional source on something, I don't allow to hold back the conventional source for their protection. But that's not what's happened on this case. I remember the news articles about it that we reported on, So you can find those, right, I should be able to. Okay, So this was in his twenty nineteen deposition. Let's remember this is three years ago. He has had plenty of time to find this email. Yes, And so here is him in the December one deposition being asked about this again. Do you remember we talked in that last deposition about the Bloomberg email. We're Bloomberg send an email out to his people, said ready in the next twenty four hours, there's gonna be a big event. You remember that that was a new story. Yuh yeah. And then we talked about it for a while because you had brought that up to me. You were like, look, I don't have the email itself. That was something I was reporting on. I had, there was a story about it, and I was reporting on it. You remember that, and then you remember you told me you could find it for me, right, Yeah, I believe I shaid that, and then you never gave it. Be honest with you, you don't really inhabit much. In my mind, you don't have much respect for any of this process, do you know? I don't think you have respect for America. Okay, that's that's an interesting that's an interesting move, Cotton. Let's see how that place for it. Yeah, you know, you gotta you gotta last out a little bit when you have been over years unable to produce the nonsense source that you have for for this claim. And I think that that's characteristic of a lot of the ways that they you know, obviously, the the questioning is like where did this stuff come from? Where where we're what were you working off of? And it's just there's an inability to even like pretend that his reporting is based on anything, right, Robert, do you have a favorite show or like a favorite episode of a favorite show that you can rewatch over and over and over. Yeah, I mean, for sure a bunch of them. Yeah. Yeah, So for me, it's Cowboy Bebop and there's this episode speak like a child. That's almost like dialogue less, you know, And it's just this great soundtrack and I can watch it over and over and over again, and I feel that way for the first time about a deposition, like I can watch Alex get dismantled by Mark Bankston over and over and over again without ever getting bored. It's you just don't get moments like these. You don't terrible people where it's just uh, like all it's almost like he's it's almost like cosmic judgment. It's like it's like seeing somebody before an omnipotent judgment that's just like, no, this is wrong, and this is wrong and this is what you did right. And he just hast like he's in front of fucking a Nubis with yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's something else. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Check out this fucking feather. It wakes a million pounds and it is still not heavy enough. You piece of ship. So what you you noticed there? How Alex, when you sort of backed into a corner, lashes out and he's like, you don't care about that America. Um. He does lit a bit in these deposition settings, and when confronted about some of these ideas about Sandy Hook. One of the things he does in these depositions, I think it is probably terribly advised, really bad decision, is to sort of imply that he still thinks Sandy Hook was fake. Again bold. Second of all, you, Mr Jones, you understand this jury is going to watch the video of you saying unequivocally not I see how people could think this, but unequivocally saying Sandy Hook completely Oh no, Mr Jones, you don't get to interrupt me. You understand that, sir. You're here to ask questions from this jury, and I want you to listen to the questions. You know, this jury is gonna watch videos of you saying multiple times, over and over again, Sandy Hook is completely fake, completely synthetic. It is not real, right, And you're gonna sit here in this chair and say, oh, actually what I said. Actually what I said is I could see how some other people could think it was fake. You know, the jury is gonna see those videos, and you know they're gonna hear your words. Do you think that they should take you seriously whatsoever? When they can see you saying the things you said you didn't say? I know I know that the jury is gonna say I always heard that people are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven how guilty they choose, and that the system is actually scared for me to put on evidence the truth is down. I have still have real questions about Sandy Hook and a lot of the anomalies and what's going on, and the CIA visiting Adam landsa before it happened in the FBI that was in the mainstream news, and just all the bizarreness that went on. The public still has real questions, just like to do about Jesse Smollett or the Roe v. Wade babying that never actually died, or w M D's in Iraq, or just the Gulf of Tonkin or Operation Northwoods or Bubba Wallace or or you know, so many of these things that have happened. Most of these hate crimes and type things end up being false flags. So I still when I look at events, question and say could this could this be stays and we look for telltell signs. So yeah, his mind always retreats back to like hate crimes are fake. Yeah that is that is kind of a safe harbor for him. Yeah, yeah, that that that It is interesting to see him kind of go back to what he considers base, you know, like a kid playing Tag or something, but with you know, yeah, like you have racism. You know know what else is like the game Tag but with racism. No, that's not a good way to lead. Well, it's time for ads anyway. So here's some fucking ads. We're back. Here's some fucking ads. Hey listen, Dick wads. Buy some ship or die. Yeah, hey, motherfucker's get a bed, Buy a fucking mattress. You already got a mattress. I don't give a ship. Put it somewhere, put it on the fucking floor and use it as a chair. God damn it, you cowards. Do you have the mattress? I bet it didn't come in as small of the boxes. This one just get really abusive, Like what is it Dick's last resort where the way staff gets to curset you or whatever. Yeah, I think there's a but I think every town has their version of that. We had a couple of friends. Some places it's just waff house kid rock. That's a boxing ring. So here's another club of Alex retreating to basically just saying like Sandy Hook is probably actually fake. Can you know, just admit that for the jury that you said, then they're going to see the videos. They should investigate Sandy Hook themselves. They should look into it themselves and see why people ask questions. You hope they don't know. I really hope they That's not going to play well in a courtroom. I don't think. I don't think. Yeah, I don't think that's gonna I don't think that's gonna fly. Dan. I just don't think that's gonna do great for him. All right, your honor, I recognize that you have already found me guilty in a oddly specific circumstance that happens once a hundred years. However, have you considered that maybe all of you are wrong and I've been right the whole time. Yeah. I was in the room when he said that, and I almost gasped. It's very hard to like hold in my like, oh, that's a bad idea. That's why I was not invited. Yeah. So this next clip is actually a little bit longer because like some of these deposition clips obviously are like questions and answers, and so they they can they can be a bit bit longer. But I think that this is something that's that's kind of relevant and it's worth it, and this is this isn't uh Mark the attorney asking Alex about uh an email that Wolfgang how Big sent to a family member of one of the victims at Sandy Hook and Alex's response to it, and then I'm gonna go ahead and read this email to you. It says Nick and Laura Phelps did a great job acting in Newtown on Newtown, Connecticut on December. I visited their home today at nineteen four Westover Reserve Boulevard, Windmere, Florida, three four seven eight six, And thanks to Lieutenant Van Gaily telling me during my wellness check of Nick and Laura Phelps that they no longer live in Newtown, Connecticut and that they are now, and they are now Richard and Jennifer Sexton. Guess what? He is totally right? And can you believe it that my Newtown Police Department guided me in the right direction. They have a beautiful home with a three car garage. They were not home today, but the good news was that the three adult female moms with their children standing outside their homes observed me and wanted to know what I was doing it was spring break. It is spring break for Orange County, Florida school show showed them this picture and I told them that I did not want to go to the wrong house to surprise Nick and Laura from Newtown, Connecticut a k a. Richard and Jennifer Sexton today. I took a few minutes for them to look at the pictures, and then when they asked why I wanted to speak to them, I told them that I had been in Newtown and wanted to surprise them since they now live in Florida. They asked for my name, which I gave them as Wolfgang how big. They told me how I would know them, knew them? And I told them that they had. They have been on the national news, so I wanted to meet them again. Our conversation was all about Newtown, Connecticut, so she said, do you mind if I text her? I said absolutely not waited about ten minutes, only to learn that they did not know me, which surprised me. They verified the pictures and why would she text them about Newtown, Connecticut and that someone from there wanted to visit if they had If they were not Nick and Laura Phelps, now Richard and Jennifer Sexton. At first, I did not want to enter since it is a gated community, but several people told me just go on in there. There is no security guard at the gates. If there is CCTV, they will see me being told to go in, and that is the only reason or I would not have entered. Now, who says law enforcement does not know what they are doing? Thank you Newtown Connect to get police. Can you turned the document over? First of all, I read an email, Yes, okay, And then on the back you see there's a picture here right, Yes, And at the top it says Sandy Hook hoax actors. Correct, yes, and it has arrows pointing to the phelps right, and that the bottom it says playing the part of grief stricken parents. Correct. Yes, there's a horrible email, isn't it. I've never seen this female and it's um. Yes, I don't like this email. And again this is someone else, wolf king how Big after I had already clearly knew that he cracked up. And so that's that's that's not my work. The next question that's asked is about how Alex did a video after this repeating Wolf Gang how bigs claims um so yeah, that's some of the reality of what the like people who are being promoted by Alex, and Alex was helping them raise money for their activities. These were the things that wolf Gang how Big was doing. Yeah, and it's tough to it's tough to listen into not which because it's so long, but at the same time, like it is part of it is part of the length of it. That is the torture as well of like, no, there's no way you can continue going on, and everything he does is just another fucking shovelful of dirt in the grave of misery. And it's just a fucking awful Yeah, I mean it's it's literally like when you actually peel back and think about what's going on here, a crank is stalking people whose children were killed. Um. Hey, but at least he's getting paid for it. Alex is paying him because all he cares about is that it it fills their time, you know, and maybe we'll get him talked about on the news, which which which brings in traffic. Well, at very least if Alex isn't paying him, he's promoting the organization that takes donations. The Wolfgang is running, so you know, indirect pay. Yeah, it's just disgusting. Um so. But Alex at least has the kind of base intelligence of being able to be like that suck, are you okay? Now? Even I when listening to that, like you almost want him to say even I, you know, like at least an admittance of like, listen, I don't believe ship, but this is bad. You would expect me to be thrilled by exactly You would expect me to say, this is great. Um so. One of the reasons that Alex ended up getting the default judgment was because he kept sending incompetent and unprepared people to be the corporate representative for the company. He sent rob Do twice and he couldn't answer any of the questions. And then he sent Daria Carpova, who's one of his off air talents at info Wars, and she was actually asked about this exact same email that we just heard, and in contrast to Alex's response, here's what she thought of it. An email to them, creep you out you personally, Jack Form, I'm creeping me out the way you're reading it. Yes, I don't creep you out. To have Wolfgang hobbis showing up these people's houses and describing their three car garage and all that stuff, accusing them of being people that they are not actually are. That doesn't that doesn't have any you know, have any strong feelings one we or another on that fraction form correct? Yeah? Are you asking my personal opinion? Yeah, your personal opinion? Um strikes me as a passion man who's doing an investigation something he believes in his own hardened wants to get to the bottom of. She's terrifying. She scares to me so much. I've listened to that clip. How many times have you played that for? Like four? I don't know. In the yeah, yeah, that's it, She's terrifying. It's it's a bizarre to be able to hear those words almost like isn't that email wolf getting is almost like relishing the telling of like I was in their space, it's it's sick, yeah, And to hear like the response from Alex is the socially appropriate response, and then from Daria it's the yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean trying to rationalize super creep doom if if if if you've ever seen a horror movie one of those found footage horror movies where somebody has like that personal camera and they just continue looking at somebody while they're asleep, and you're aware that nobody else knows about this, and this is a first person look that is terrifying. And you can see Daria being like, well, I mean it's just a good idea to keep an eye on them while they're asleep, right, you know, you don't want them to have what if they have sleep apnea, you might you might be in trouble. And that's why you need to constantly videotape strangers kids while they sleep, because what if they get hurt? Said, Look, you're joking about that, but I do support not you know what, that's not even a good start that we don't we don't we don't need that. We don't need Yeah, we don't need that bit um you know watches you while you're asleep. Well, yes, actually some of our sponsors. But that is why people pay for them. Listen, what's good good so um. One of the things that is a hallmark of Alex's discussion about his lawsuits is that like, he did everything right and he's just getting jammed up and it's it's a complete setup and and a fraud. Um, and so this, this clip from his deposition is a really interesting glimpse into how he seems to not even be aware of how he didn't do anything he was asked to do. You've repeatedly said that this, this court pro says, this lawsuit, what just happened is all a sham because you turned everything over and that court still default did you anyway? Right? Um? Yes, Owen Troyer, you never sent him one deposition, one document request, one thing, and he was defaulted along with me. And if that isn't fraud, then nothing is okay. Hold on, I may have to pull this order for you because do you understand that in Mr Neil Hesson's case there was a court order requiring Owen Troyer to appear for deposition? Do you know that? I know he appeared for a deposition yesterday? You asked for it after the default, No surge, Mr Jones. Do you understand that there was an order in August thirty one, eighteen asking Mr that requiring Owen Stroyer to appear for deposition? Did you know that? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, you didn't know that. You've got on your show without even knowing what the discovery was. Yeah, so Alex's it's it's when confronted with reality, doesn't even know the things he has failed to do. Yeah, h it is. It is a constant source of enjoyment for for him to be like the alright, Alex, you know that this happened, and he's like, this happened like a few months ago. I don't remember. I got damn bit of it. It's just it's just amazing that a person can exist like this. It's fun too to think it's some someday we will learn how much money he's spent on these lawyers. I do believe that information will get out one of these days, because they are they're just not doing a thing for him. Not that not that they could not, that he would listen, but he he doesn't. He's not getting his money's worth. I'll say that much. Well. The conversely, I'd like to propose that possibly they're doing everything for him in terms of creating a pretense of like I had incompetent lawyers, I could have won these cases like he has the that to fall back on, although better don't repeatedly have the lawyers as guests on your show. Well, right, Barnes did have his own show for a little and give one of them their own show. Yes. Well, one thing that we I don't know if it's in a later clip, no, no, no fun Norm pattis forever, um. No. One thing later on is Bill will eventually say directly to uh was it Owen Troyer. He was like, Hey, are you gonna sue your lawyers after this? Because look, I'm deposing you, and it's my advice that you sue your lawyers after this. I don't think they have adequately prepared you for. It's even funnier about that is that the reason he's saying it is to remind them that should they win a lot of money from their lawyers, that money will be going to the city that would be considered an assid Yeah, we are going to take that as well. Yeah, and just say you know, yeah, yeah, I don't think I don't think it's impossible they could do a male practice. Yeah they've got it, They've got a chance. Yeah. So Um. One of the things that has been a hallmark of these cases that UH Infra Wars has been subject to is that they don't seem to know what they're giving the lawyers in discovery. Um, there was the child pornography. That was the stuff they emails that they turned over to the Connecticut people. And then in this case there was something that is unexplainable that they had that they turned over. It's fair to say that Leonard Posner and Free speech Systems have had an unfriendly relationship over the years. No, I'm not. I don't really followed what he does. So about him? So you do follow him? Correct? I mean I don't. You never refreshed my memory, so I will refresh your memory about what you know about. Oh, I'm shave marks? Did a five? Have you ever seen that before? No, not that I remember. What is it? That's the soul document you produced to me just a couple I guess a month or two ago in regard to discovery request for any documents you have regarding Mr Posner. That's the sole document that was in that folder label Posmer. That's it, and that you will agree with me. Appears to be a very large which could be about a hundred and eighty seven page comprehensive background report on Mr Posner. Correct, I never ran a background report on Posmer. I've never I've never even seen this. I understand that you probably never even saw that. Someone emails this and then we opened it. I don't know, Mr Jones. You gave it to me. What am I supposed to know you about it? I don't know you you tell me that. I mean, just go through the email. Most of it's not open to just send you guys everything. This isn't an email, isn't it. I would imagine I'd never run a background thing on positive one thing we can agree on because you look at the bottom of that document. It says f S S t X dot A eight five five four four correct. Yeah, that's a bigger members y'all use when you give me documents. Right, So, this document right here came from infu wars corporate files. I thought you said we haven't given you any documents. I've said, whether you said we didn't get we were defaults, we gave you a nothing. We didn't real respond you gave me documents in the Lewis case in responsive to documents. Well, I mean, I listen. I I mean, I'm just telling you I've never looked at this. That's not what I'm asking you, Mr Jones. The news about and Florida doing a background thing on him, and so I figure somebody might have sent us this. I'm just guessing. I think I shouldn't guess. I don't know. Yeah, do you think you should be guessing what I just said? You're right, I I don't know what this So let's not do that anymore. That is upsetting. That's my favorite, My favorite part of the deposition really has to just be like, you sent this to me. I didn't come to you with a eighty seven page background check, Unletty Poor, where did this come from? You tell me, man, you tell me. It's one of the creepier things that I think you find in this these depositions is that info Wars turned over this extensive background check on one of the parents of one of the kids that died at Sandy Hook, and no one seems to know where it came from or why it's in their files because it wasn't in an email. No, it was in their files. No, it was in their files that they sent. Yeah. I can't I can't stress enough how wild that is that you can be essentially being sued out of oblivion and then at the same time be like, we'll just send him everything. And I'm not going to check. Nobody was like, hey, this h eight seven page background check on Lenny Posits. It's got like associates, addresses, and family members not gonna play. It's not gonna play. Well, yeah, that is really creepy. Yeah. Have you ever done a background report on anybody? Uh, Robert enemies that you need to do background checks on? I mean I haven't done a background I have done background checks on on my enemies, but but not that kind of essentially No, No, that sounds tiring. Yeah, your biggest background check so far has been kissing your obviously, And finally we finally nailed him to the wall. We got him. Yeah, this is the it's the end of his career. We did it canceled. It only took nineties years. I feel like the jury was out until the podcast. Thank god, it finally tipped the balance for me. It's like, I don't know if this guy is good news, you know what. I'm starting to think this guy might have some bad qualities. Yea, so I just I mean it's something that I don't think is going to be solved by this case, no matter what happens. I don't know if anyone will ever publicly know why they had that background check? Yeah, infurious, Yeah, yeah, because who did it? Yeah, there's a lot of unanswered questions there. You know, you would have to think that it was some sort of private investigator, right, probably or some firm. I mean, it's a hundred and eighty seven pages. It's not like he went to the FBI. Yeah, the online thing, right, he didn't just file like for a criminal record, like somebody stalked an So somebody a lot of Alex's like bodyguards, ex. Blackwater, they have some like shady connection. No, totally, but that does mean that there's somebody out there who put this background report together and could just be like, hey man, I'm the weirdo that did this ship. You know, you'd hope there'd be some kind of forensic fingerprint somewhere. But or I mean, I don't know, do we know if it's accurate? Because like, is it possible somebody just grifted Alex fucking Douglas Adams novel about Lenny Posner. That would be something let me do it. I think Alex would fall for it. Um, but um, that seems like a lot of effort. Lenny Posner has never left his towel at home though, So there is that. So I've got a little bit of Owen Shroyer's deposition to jump to. He is involved in the case because he did uhum a video where he was hosting the Fourth Hour or not the Fourth Hour, it was it was hosting in Alex's place on a Sunday show, and someone gave him an article, um and and some videos where he just decided, hey, we're going to report this as Neil Heslin couldn't have held him his child. And one of the things that oh And is very clear about is like someone gave me this news to cover I didn't. I didn't check it or anything. Um. And this is a clip where Bill Ogden, the other attorney in the case, UM, has to help Owen realize that he is a puppet. I don't know who edited that video, right. It could have been someone in our house. It could have been someone else on the internet that they found, right. You know what, you know what we can agree on. Nobody fact checked it. Nobody just said, man, that's crazy. When did he say this? Google up the interview and watch it. It's twenty minutes. I didn't plan on covering the story that day, so I had no preconceived notion that I would even have to do that. I know, Mr Shroyer, you're here because you were a puppet. You would agree with me, right you? You don't agree with me that you you know what puppet is, correct? The puppet is an object that is used to convey a message, but somebody else is actually controlling the message. Understand that, right, You were conveying a message, right, True, somebody else was controlling that message? True? No, No, who who was controlling the message that you were putting out? Were you in control? What was the message you're referring to that The coroner said he never released the children ever, because that's the story you ran with. Who was in control of that information? If you weren't, because you already said you weren't in control of it, who was? Somebody has to be whoever originally posted the video, So someone else had control and you were conveying the message. We just established that you were the puppet that day. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to be directed. It's analogous to where we are now. You agree, I think if anybody is being used as a puppet, it would be the people who are reporting the stories and I'm just showing that information you were reporting the story, Mr Lawyer, if I cover So if I just pick up anybody's new source and cover it, does that make me a puppet? So if you don't fact check it, absolutely okay, then I guess then I guess I'm a puppet of zero Hedge in this case. No, that's actually not true. You're a puppet of I coined Bank. Okay, puppet. It's tough to have to look in the mirror like that to to uh to see that. Yeah, it is fun that we have Bill on the case, just because you could definitely see a lot of lawyers being like, well, I'm just gonna drop the puppet coming. I mean, it's not like the puppet conversation adds a ton to the case. But Bill is like, listen, I am gonna get you to say that you're a fucking puppet if it kills me, and I'm gonna win. God, that's satisfying. That's just that just feels steels good, feels good to have in the world. Someone who brands themselves as like the destroyer of Cux. There's such they're all such owen. Especially this is less the case with really Alex, but like Owen is very much cut in that right wing like debate guy personality. Um, but none of them actually like debate. All they know how to do is have you know, they have media training. They understand how things like look on film, and they understand how to get sound bites, and they just kind of go out to surprise people and get sound bites. And Owen can't edit this, he can't cut it apart, he can't end the interaction, and he just gets revealed as the the hollow man that he truly is. And it's it's m yeah, And I think I think that's what's so compelling, especially for me, about these like the these glimpses, these depositions that you know, you get this side of these folks that they aren't in control of. Yeah, and it's a disaster. Yeah. Now listening to it gives you such a like Thanksgiving dinner feel where you don't even want to say anything, You just want to like loosen your belts and lean back and be like, oh full, that was a delicious meal. I just got to eat there. Now, you mentioned that Owen Shroyer's nickname is the cuck Slayer. You know, what else slaves Cox? What's up the products and services that support this podcast? What? It's fine? It's like a kink thing. Ah, we're back and we're talking about cux. We have been. Yes, the fun kind that everybody enjoys from occasion to occasion, you know, like that what type is that? I mean? Like sometimes that kind of sense of debasement can be a sexual pleasure that many people have, you know, like like in a controlled environment, to feel as though one is you know, inferior can be a turn on for many people. Okay, yeah, it's not that. That's why Elon Musk stays on Twitter. So we were talking about Owen Troy. Yes, completely different kind of cock disc for sure. So one of the things that's that's a lot of fun throughout these depositions is you you you get to witness people learning stuff about the company they work for and the people around them. Um. I think that sometimes this is fairly genuine. Um, as is the case in this this clip where Owen gets to learn about, uh, some people who might like mass shooters Michael Zimmerman. Do you know who he is? Yes? Is he? Are you friends with him? I would say we're friends, but I mean, we don't hang out or talk that often. But do you have a somewhat professional and PERI saw him in public, ID go say hello? Sure? Okay? Um, he seemed like a good guy. Yeah, And I opposed him. He came off very respectful. He was. He was shockingly nice. Um for a white nationalist. Would has he ever shared any of his opinions or views on mass shootings with you? Not that I can recall? Were you aware that? Do you? Do you remember the christ Church shooting, New Zealand? Yes, christ Church, New Zealand shooting and he's live streamed. Yes, Um, Brandon Tarrant was the shooter. He executed a bunch of Muslims at a mosque. Something refreshing the details of the event for me right now? Um. Do you know whether or not anyone who Info worse claimed it was a false flag? No? I'm unaware. Okay. Did you know that some individuals and info wars liked that shooting? No? Did you know? Um? Do you understand that Michael Zimmerman handles the I T stuff for in for Worse m H attraction for um? I know that he was doing I T. I'm not sure if that is still his role. Did you know that on March four, two thousand nineteen, Mr Zimmerman registered the domain Tarrant Manifesto dot com. No, boy, No? Did you know that he registered the website shooter chan dot org. Did you know you know who Timothy Thrift is? Yes? Do you have a personal relationship with him? Work acquaintance? Okay? Did you know that he registered the website st Tarrant dot com? Boy a shooter Brandon Tarrant? How do you feel about the people that you work with who you have somewhat of a personal relationship registering these type of websites immediately after a mass shooting that was live stream to the world. I'm pretty surprised. I think that's a surprising thing. I would be surprising. Yeah, you really don't ever want to be asked in court? Are you aware that your coworker made the website shooter chant That is that is just not a question you want to get asked really ever, but especially Yeah, yeah, not a question you want to be asked. It makes the argument tougher. Um when there's multiple people who are like like making websites that are presumably about celebrating a mass shooter too to argue that you're not engaged in some form of stochastic terrorism. Hey, a bunch of your friends worked at Auschwitz. How do you feel about that? Did you know, oh that they were, because that maybe that would kind of suggest that you're also it's it's a bad it's a bad thing to be surprised by. Yeah, actually, maybe it's better to be surprised. Yeah if he was like, oh, yeah, of course I knew that, buddy, have an account on it. I think what's fun about that, though, is that exemplifies one of the things that is uh consistent throughout all of the Info Wars depositions is like a weird k genus about the wrong thing, you know, like whether or not we're friends. Yeah. Yeah, they were like, hey, you know, I don't know is the sky blue today? Like you don't even know the answer to that. Well, yeah, I killed those guys, but like is the sky And you're like, no, no, you're wrong man, yep yep, um, so the like, Like I mentioned earlier, the one of the reasons, the primary reason, one of the primary reasons that Alex ended up losing these cases by default was sending these people who couldn't handle being corporate representatives. When they are sent as corporate representatives, they're supposed to testify as the company. So there is a responsibility that they have to prepare, get all their their business in order and basic understanding of the case. Yeah. Yeah, and they're supposed to. I mean, they're given a list of topics that they're supposed to testify on on behalf of the company, things like you know, personnel, the who worked on this video, what are the sources for this video? Those kinds of things, and they have whiffed it every single time. It has been a disaster. Um rob Do when he was in it was funny because he was wearing a tangle hat and he just seemed scared and confused. I really, while you're asking me these questions, what I would like you to start with is treat me more like a fourth grader who doesn't know what business means. Could you begin at the like what ease money? See? He he was He's a lot of fun. But unfortunately there's not a lot of like things you can really pull from it that really exemplify his stupidity. Um, it's a really it's more of a totality, right that kind of exemplifies what he's doing. However, Daria, when she was testifying as the corporate representative, I think there's a bit more stuff that that sticks out as like, this is someone testifying on behalf of the company and this is a mess. Yea. So she had brought in a folder full of exhibits that she wanted to discuss in the course of the deposition, and here is Mark bringing up the first one. You recognize that, correct, that's a document that you reviewed part of this deposition, right, That is the Wikipedia entry for false flag correct. Yes, okay, can you tell me why you looked at this document? Oh boy, I thought it would be a good idea to bring it as a reference to some of the points for topic number one. If I could have the list of topics, that would help me to identify the exhibits. I understand what you're saying. Let's do that. So, yes, she brought a bunch of Wikipedia print out. It's good. No, no, that's good. That shows like a willingness to engage with no. No, no, of course, that's the beauty of it, just like with the background report, except for way funnier. It's just it's it's very funny because it's like It's it's both like incredibly like deeply irresponsible and also like some thing, uh, your grandma might do totally like I heard you had a big case today, Honey. I was looking at some things up online and I just said, Linda, and I wanted to support you in your your skits. I really wanted to. But it's also like it would it would fail a high school paper if you yes. So it's a it's a bad look. And uh, it was befuddling. Uh you have the print out of Wikipedia for a false flag? Why did you bring this to me? Is such a is such a consistent question that all of the depositions have of Like we you know, we asked you for specific things. You could have brought those and we could have dealt with that. Instead you brought me a Wikipedia page. So let's figure out why this makes you even more guilty than you were yesterday. So so Daria as the company was supposed to testify about these videos that are in the plaintiffs petition, and it was pretty clear at the beginning of the deposition that she had not actually watched them, um, but then later in the deposition she appeared to have watched some of them. And so this exchange happens. See, they're talking about an April video called Sandy Vampires Exposed. You understand that that is the video that Mr Posner and Mrs Delarissa based their defamation claim on. Did you know that? Okay? Did you know that when preparing for this stepo? Did you know that? Yes? Okay? Did you watch that video? I mean, unless you've watched it in the last couple of hours, you haven't watched it, right for this deposition, I'm familiar with the video. Did you watch it in preparing for this deposition? Though? Yes? Okay? When did you watch it? Earlier? Today? During the break when it became apparent that you hadn't watched these videos, you wouldn't try to watch this video. You didn't watch the whole thing, though, did you? No? Right, so you didn't watch this video? Pieces of this video? Correct? How many pieces did you watch? How many minutes total did you watch? This video? Did not count? So this is the level of respect that the people who are the corporate representatives for INFOS are showing the proceedings. It's it's bad stuff. Yeah, that's um. I feel like I could have done a better job representing INFO wars. I want the worst for them. No, your your testimony would have been more effective at keeping them from receiving a default judgment their own, just because of like my basic sense of politeness, in total fairness, just for the sake of clarity. This, the Daria deposition, was after the default judgments, so this didn't contribute to that. It did bring sanctions. It is certainly evidence of why the default judgment happened. Yes, and listening to it is a little bit if you've ever had that friend who just lies about everything for no reason, not necessarily a friend, but like the person you knew, like yeah, yeah, totally, and and then just to see somebody have to like no longer can dissemble, no longer can lie, just eventually has to come down and say fine. I watched the video ten minutes ago, and I watched about five minutes of it. Is that what you wanted to hear? I could have said that at the first start, but you have forced me during a bathroom break, watched a little bit. I had urine blasting out of me whilst I watched this fucking video. Pretty grim again. So the last couple of clips that I have here from these depositions are is the most upsetting thing I think I heard other than Wolfgang how bigs emails. Those are deeply, deeply disturbing. Um but U Daria when she was giving her deposition, she's asked about wolf Gang how Big had sent to info Wars a picture of the Sandy Hook choir that sang at the Super Bowl, UH that year, and UH. The argument was that the kids who were quote unquote killed at Sandy Hook were in the choir and it was like rubbing it in America's faces because it was a false flag and all of this. And so this got sent to info Wars, and then someone at info Wars I believe it might have been a Don Salazar rope back thank you. He thanked wolf Gang for this email. And so this this image becomes a little bit of a bizarre jumping off point for again Daria testifying on behalf of the company, you would if somebody sent you this while you were doing reporting, you would thank them for it. I don't know, it depends on circumstances. I wasn't there when Nico was having this exchange what information he had at that time? Why I'm asking you, what if you have this information, a picture that says at the top tin Sandy Hooked, children found alive and will and then the Super Bowl choir from millions of people. Would you look at that and go, man, I'm glad then sent me that? Personally, I would rather think that those kids were alive then then having because the tragedy of kids being murdered for no reason, um, the innocence of those children who didn't deserve what that that kind of fate. I would hold out hope to the last bit of my soul, hoping and praying that that picture was that that was something that be possible for those kids to be alive. So is that how you would you would see that? Robert? No, No, Um, that's that's a weird that's a weird call for her to make. I mean she must have just that has to have been in the moment right now that thinks calculated that, like you would not calculate and arrive at that as like your your decision. Oh no, totally. I mean I remember this clip and the thing that I liken it to is like that John Ronson psychopath test uh story. You know, it's like a psychopath goes to a funeral and meet somebody that they're romantically interested in, and so in order to meet them again, they kill somebody else because they meet that person at funerals. You know, like it's a very logical thought process, so long as you have absolutely no empathy or or concept of other human beings being valuable. Right, Yeah, how how can something this fucked up actually be a good thing? Yeah? Absolutely? And you're like, there's no way that a human being could react like that. Yeah, And and hearing that, you you'd think that, like, well, she's just saying that, and it's just gonna be a she kind of sticks on that that on that tip and and stands by this. It seems so if you think about it from your point of view, if you think about it, if the parents of my clients saw this picture, you should give him a lot of right. They should they should react really positively to this, with a lot of hope inside. Right. Objection form is that what you're saying. I'm not those parents. I'm looking at it as an outsider, and I would much rather and I don't know a person with a heart would rather think, who would rather believe that the kids are dead versus that the kids might be alive? I would say it's reasonable for a person with a heart to have that sort of optimism as as as I'm I'm sure Alex wanted to believe that those kids. If there was any possibility kids were not dead, then he was going to grab onto it, because that's a much better proposition to have in your heart and mind than two to realize that they were so Alex Jones, according to how the company used things in terms of your Sandy Hook coverage, Alex Jones said the kids didn't really die and they were really alive, in part because he has such a big heart and a lot of hope and optimism for he's a dreamer objection form. He's not the only one, some have said, Alex Jess. Yeah, I found that to be with the most disturbing thing in the at least as an idea in the in the depositions that um saying that the kids weren't dead and that they were being paraded out to sing at the Super Bowl is an expression of love and optimism. Yeah, that's the stret pretty bleak. I mean, wouldn't you really hope that Nagasaki was a false flag? Right? Like, don't you want to believe that no one would really drop a nuclear bomb on a city, And so I think that's why it's a good idea to just deny that anybody died. Yeah, why would you want to believe cancers real? Really? Yeah? If it's anyone with heart, medical science is lying about cancer in order to keep us in fear. It is a pretty fascinating the thoughts that had to have occurred in her head to wind up saying those things. Um, it would be amazing to be inside that little brain, just just watching those connections pop together. Could you not? Could you not see yourself being like held underwater by Daria and her being like, listen, I can't believe how good it is that I'm strangling you and drowning you to death right now because of how nice I am as a person. Leaving Jordan's fantasies aside, Sure, I think is that a fantasy? Well? I did make a CUK reference earlier, You did? You did? There is an element to it too that's added. That is that you know someone had these thoughts, decided this was gonna be the angle we're taking, doubled down on it. And that also happens to be someone who's higher up at info Wars and they chose to be their corporate representative testifying for the company. It's not like this is the first time she's had some kind of a messed up, weird done thought like it's it's it's wild. The glimpse that you get through these depositions is just such a harrowing picture of people who are so disrespectful to the very idea that they did something wrong or the organization did something wrong. And I think that they're really valuable glimpse into that. Uh And what we're gonna see in the near future is very likely some some interesting developments over the course of the the cases as they come to fruition. I think we'll we'll see uh so even and some more information come out, I would assume, Wow, well, boys, rob Man, I really feel like we've all transitioned. It's lovely to have you in the position where you're not usually in. You know, when you finish your script, usually your guest is like, Jesus fucking Christ, did you know that we're on a show called Behind the Bastards? And this guy's a real bad dude. One of my favorite things to do to relax is to watch videos of people attempting and to cut down trees and generally fucking up in a major way. And usually these videos are like That's why sometimes a great notion is my favorite novel. I don't understand that joke Ken Ken Kesey. Never mind, okay, um, I've only read uh uh oh wait, no, that's not kid Casey. He's just in it. Never mind. I was thinking of Tom Wolf. Um. But I like watching these because you'll see like somebody making this chain of decisions where Okay, I have this very tall tree, it's like two ft tall, and it's right in front of my house. I don't want to pay for someone. I'm gonna remove it on my own. I'm gonna winch myself up on top of it. I'm gonna have my kids hold onto ropes to try to pull it to the right side, and I'm gonna cut the area above me that my like line is attached to. And then everything goes wrong and they wind up like impaling themselves under chainsaw and I'm going to deep fry a frozen turkey at the same time. At the same time, it's it's like that, it's just like this string of Wow, none of you, you didn't think through what the next step of this was going to be, because you just kind of figured it would go away because none of this, none of this feels in any way calculated. Um, it's too incompetent for that, and it's going too badly for to them for that. It's just like they weren't aware. It's like why watching someone learn about gravity as they fall off a mount. Well, I mean, the the incompetence is the manifestation of it. But there is a strategy, and that strategy is coming to an end. Now. The strategy is the kicking the can down the road appealing. Yeah, And so there was like a legal strategy that clearly was being employed. I even saw it with Alex in the Connecticut deposition recently, where he pretended he was sick and couldn't go. Um, it's just an attempt to delay the inevitable. And I really don't. I mean that that gravity analogy is good except for there's this other part where it's like, sure, this is their first time learning about gravity because they've been jumping off a thousand foot buildings for years and having no consequences for it, you know, on their listeners. Totally, totally, so They've got this such a comfortable landing every time they fall so hard that they're like, why am I bouncing and bleeding on the sidewalk right now? I've been bouncing. I've been flying the whole time, you know. Yep, yep. Podcast over, everyone go home, you guys, your plug doubles. While we all sit and think about well what I actually first, Dan, what do you think is gonna happen next? Are they gonna Are they gonna lose all their money? Um? Yeah, I'm fairly confident it's gonna He's gonna lose a lot. I think it's gonna be like it couldn't be like a lot of times you get these things where it's like, oh, yeah, the bad guy lost a case, and then it's like, oh and they get a slap on the wrist, fine, like the Sacklers, where it's like, well, that's not gonna hurt them in any way. But this doesn't feel like that. I think that Alex isn't in great financial straits to begin with, Like I think he's uh in for wars, is fairly precariously balanced on a ledge um And then uh yeah, I think I think these gonna get hit with a pretty I mean, you have cases in Texas, Connecticut, the Fontane case still being active. Uh, there's there is a number of blows he's going to take and he's already you know, squeezed his audience pretty hard in terms of what he's able to to make. Uh. That way, I think I think I wouldn't be too surprised if he's um asking to do a podcast on a network soon, and we'll be happy to have him. I think there's no doubt that the goal is to bankrupt him so he can never do the show again. Whether or not they succeed in that goal is uh, you know, up in the air. But that is that does seem to be like, here's what we're gonna shoot for, and if we negotiate down from there, it's gonna be fucking close. You know. If I think of the sentence that would be just for him. He'd be hooked up to a little buzzer that could deliver like a shock that didn't hurt, but like stopped him from whatever he was doing, and then he would be forced to host a daily podcast on the show ninety Day Fiance, where if he ever attempted to say anything that wasn't directly about the show, he'd get a little buzz. So if he had to just actually watch it doesn't matter what reality show. But every day he has to watch and comment on that show without talking about anything else, without getting into politics. Is he allowed to be racist about contestants and put on the show, because then he could do it. No, we're gonna say no racist counter for you. I've got a counter for you, all right. Two words, wicker Man, three additional words. Not the bees, Not the bees, Not the bees. I always, I always kind of fantasized about like a fitting punishment. I would I would agree to this if the price was right. Um, but Alex continues doing his show, but he has to do it with me sitting at the desk of Alex. Alex nerve to get me to throw a flag on that play? Yeah, yeah, thanks to submit to me being like no no, no, no, no no no no no no no. And that would make Info Wars the first show to last more than twenty four hours a day. Yeah. Probably we would have to go into leap time so you could properly do your job. Uh well, now you guys want to plug your plug doubles before we were Oh, that's right, we were going to do that. We do. It's dot com on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's knowledge under score fight and I go to bed Jordan's as is my want. For the second episode of a Behind the Bastards. I will admit that I did write a book. It's at the quiet part loud dot com. You can find it. It's free. Yeah, um, and you can find me nowhere because I exist only in the theory a plane where thoughts and feelings and audio clips of Alex Jones being deposed. Right, there's Amataba Buddha, and then there's you, just serenely hovering over the knowledge. All right. Damn hey, America and to a lesser extent, Canada. Um, this is Robert and Dan from a knowledge fight. We have exercised Jordan for his sins um, so we we just had we recorded this. I think we say the date in episode one a while ago. Right, that's just the way Bastards works. It's you know, there's a backlog um that Dan graciously helped me extend. But some ship has happened in the ensuing weeks. It felt like this was something that was ever green and you could just have it to sit on a shelf. First of it is, yeah, but just talking about Alex Jones and his his dumb troubles. But it turns out curveballs. Yeah, so let's let's get into those curveballs, because I mean, obviously everything you've said about him is still accurate. It's just that some new ship has happened visa VI, particularly the court cases. They changed the landscape a little since this uh, this episode has to particularly do with the legal stuff. Um, it is a little embarrassing just to look back. I remember that. I think I think we said that Jordan and I were about to fly out to Austin for the trial right before we recorded the episode, and the tragic which means you have not had good barbecue in a very long time. That is true, Chicago has good food, but and some good barbecue maybe yeah, um, but yeah we um. I think it was like the day after or two days after we recorded it, Alex had his his whole bankruptcy thing that ended up postponing the trial and so we never ended up going. And since then everything has just been a complete chaotic mess with the case. So we could be honestly, we could do a whole another episode about what's happened in the case since we recorded this episode. Well, I'm sure we will at some point, but we'll let it all shake out. So yeah, as of mid April, this is this is fairly accurate. Well cool, anything else, No, I just wanted to put that caveat because otherwise I just would feel so self conscious. Yeah, it's okay. I feel self conscious all the time, um about things that I say and then other things happened. But it's it's it's you know how you can't be expected to predict the legal proceedings of Alexander and Rick Jones because they're they They do not proceed the way any reasonable person would want them to write. If you if you're just try, if you're assuming alex is a rational actor taking steps in his own self interest, you'll be constantly surprised by how he handles his court cases. Yeah, he has a a warped sense of his own self interests that just game theory refuses to calculate. All right, Well, we're gonna return you to your previously scheduled episode already in progress, and we are also going to unlock the shadow dimension where we've thrown joy. While we record this um for him. A thousand years has passed of of unbelievable torment. Anyway, okay. Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.