Welcome to Behind the Bastards, the podcast that's a podcast legally supposed to that, Jamie, There's no getting around it. This is absolutely this is a podcast where a man in an animal onesie depresses me over zoom, a man in an animal onesie who also bragged about eating fresh grapes during our little break. I kind of liked that. Yeah, yeah, what I watch the Golden Girls, Jamie, Oh wait, what do you say that? I do? Know? What did is? Now? Wow? Wow, that's good. That's good Golden Girls. You know, people say they learned nothing from Golden Girls except um, you know, amazing sex tips. I learned a lot about Golden Girls from you did. It's the biggest lesson you would say you learned from the Golden Girl, Robert, is it always your grapes? If you've killed somebody and you need to get rid of the body, you don't want to use a normal hack saw, right, You want to use like ideally, like a reciprocating saw of some sort. And then the other problem you're gonna have, Right, you can't just chop the body up and then deal with the pieces. Ship's gonna spray, so you're gonna have to cover a wide hilarious scene. I didn't learn that from the show, but I did learn that from one of the Golden Girls when we killed together. I learned that from the Jinks. That's another perfect murder in the Jinks. Well, really, speaking of murder, do you want to continue talking about this topic? Yes? Um so, Jamie? Yes? What is a podcast? Oh? What? Oh? Well, it's where a series of sort of charismatic but maybe not that charismatic group of Charlatan's. Uh sell you a mattress? Oh, Jamie, I'm glad you brought up mattress is because Casper Mattress has a new offer right now. Really, the only way that finally the mattress that eats your ass, because I've been waiting exactly at Jamie. It is the mattress that eats ass, whether you ask for it or not. This mattress doesn't ask consent. It just goes for it. See that, I It just goes for it. Just there's so many scenarios where that is going to be a problem. Well, Jamie, if you want the mattress that asks for consent before eating your ass, then you want a perfect distress. That's the purple The purple matters checks. I've heard that its purple mattress very considerate leves for it. Now what the purple mattress great at consent? Checks can't talk about emotions. The casper really emotionally open and has access to pretty good ketamine, so so the pup. So the purple mattress is cheaper, but you you will have to pay for it. In terms of dragging it to to therapy. You're definitely not going to get it to therapy easily. And again, the casper has access to cheap ketamine. So that's the great thing about happen Jamie. If you want a mattress that eat your ass, you have a choice, and that's what makes this the best system in the world. Are you glad that we got this sorted out? Because I've been sometimes there's just questions that you know that your friend will be able to answer for you, but you just don't really know how to like start the conversation. You know, I can't call text you saying which mattress eats the best ass? But I know you knew answer, you know, But we have choice. That's what's beautiful we have in Venezuela. You're lucky if you get one mattress that eats your ass M and I we're very lucky here we get to choose our ass eating mattresses. And you know what else we get in America? Jamie loftus, what is this metaphor? What? What? Oh? Wait, yes, now I see what you're saying, Joe Rogan. Yes, yes, and you get a choice too. You can either listen to Joe Rogan give you inappropriate healthcare advice, or you can just not listen to him and be quietly affected by everything he says, because his influence is so great that even if you don't like him personally, epidemic rates uh, that will affect you and potentially derail your life. Will will still I don't know. Here's a clip of Joe Rogan announcing that he's tested positive for COVID nineteen got tested and turns out I got COVID. So we immediately through the kitchen sank out of all kinds of meds, monoclonal antibodies, iver mect ins, pack uh, pregnizone, everything. Oh yeah, keep it on a loop, baby. So this is God? Also from why is this a thing with like gen xers that it's like everything is from the least flattering angle possible. What is that? What is the up angle? You know? The more so easy to catch a better angle, you know? Yeah, But the shittier the angle, the more it looks authentic. I guess. Yeah. Oh, that's how Joe Rogan tells us he's one of us. He's one of us. He's one of us, just with an extra or so million dollars Jamie sick. Yeah. If you're a person with a reasonable grasp on observable reality, you will note that Joe wrote in there specified that he'd used his rich person powers to take every available treatment, and some of those treatments are real medicines. Monoclonal antibodies absolutely do some ship it um now, they were almost certainly unnecessary to him, because it sounds like he may just have had asymptomatic COVID and maybe all he needed to do with self isolate for a little while um, which he did do, I think. But monoclonal antibodies probably not necessary for him. But if you have actually do get sick, can be very helpfully than life saving saving. On the other hand, the data suggests that iver mectin probably doesn't again not solid solidified yet we may find that there's some treatment case for it yet in the future, but certainly not the same amount of evidence that there is for monoclonal antibodies. Now, being a healthy guy with access to the best healthcare on the planet, Joe was always likely to survive COVID without much of an issue. And again he may have just had an asymptomatic case or mostly a symptomatic case. But because he took iver bactic alongside everything else, his example is going to spur huge numbers of people who can't afford monoclonal antibodies or around the clock medical observation, but can afford to go down to the fucking feed store. And that's again part of the problem, right. This is how the intellectual dark web launders deadly misinformation, because if you were to hold Joe's feet to the fire on this, he would say, well, look, I didn't say take ivermectin if you're sick. I said, we're going to do all of the different things. You know, we tried everything. We tried all of the different medications. Um, And if question, I'm sure he would also explain that his iver mectin was prescribed by a doctor and that there are doctors like the fl C c C who will advise taking iver mectin ethan as a prophylactic. He also took a treat with lonxiety. YadA, YadA, YadA. But again, a lot of the people listening are either just kind of here that he endorsed iver macten or of all of the things he listed, the only one they can afford is ivermectin m It's great. So yeah, it's good, Jamie, We're not good again. This is why the world is domed. So. The Intellectual dark Web or i d W is a term that was quote coined by a guy named Eric Weinstein to describe himself and a loose alliance of other right wing thought leaders who generally tended to not be right wing. So embarrassing you came up with your own name for what you when you don't think that's like naming your band corn with a K. No except Corn rocks, Yeah, corn does rock. No hate to corn, don't. I get nothing against corn, either the food or the band. So just an embarrassing name. It is an embarrassing name, but whatever, so is Jesus Christ God smack. I heard gods that. Yeah, that is pretty embarrassing. You know what, anyone with a band name, it's if you think hard enough about it, it gets embarrassing. I think Jamie and I are agreed. The concept of music is cringe. Honestly, I'm glad someone said it because I don't appreciate our die alone in a small room. Come on, no one asked about your feelings. York. I'm kid, I love I worship York. York rocks. Jamie and she didn't need and she didn't need to. She she she just goes by her name versus Corn or god Smack Jonathan Godsmack has as much of a right to his name as Yorks. There of the Boston god Smacks, I believe the Boston gods kind of when I have a kid and name it god Smack, now just have to say that ship so Smack Evans god Smack get down here, because I've never listened to one of their songs, and I know that would be a lot of people's first question. Oh see, yeah, maybe interesting. Maybe that is why I've been put on this earth, is to spread the good word of god Smack. It's because they're from Massachusetts? Is that how I know who they are? So my uncle would bring us to their concerts. Yeah, you know who. What's not from Massachusetts is the intellectual dark Web, So that actually a relief. I DW started out I think around two that's an eighteen by branding itself as a reaction to and a rejection of authoritarian left wing trends. They defined these as cancel culture would be a big one. Respect for trans people would be another big one. The fact that groups of marginalized people get angry when you question whether or not there, you know, deserve rights. The fact that people get angry at that is authoritarian to the I DW. So Barry Weiss, who used to be Yeah, she's the one who popularized the term intellectual dark web for a tween article for The Times, and ever since, the luminaries of the I DW have position themselves opposite the left on every conceivable social issue. Now, I don't give Barry Weiss credit for much, but in that first article on the I d W, she did identify what would come to be a problem with the intellectual dark web. Quote. I share the belief that our institutional gatekeepers need to crack the it's open much more. I don't, however, want to live in a culture where there are no gatekeepers at all. Given how influential this group is becoming, I can't be alone in hoping the I d W finds a way to issue the cranks, grifters and bigots and sticks to the truth seeking spoiler. They would not Berry, that's our berry. Just kidding, I don't, I can't standard. Okay, that's a lukewarm take and it's and it's bari. But that's okay, you know what, you know what I could? Yeah, yeah, buck it. So. Eric Weinstein, who named the I d W, is the managing director of Teal capital Um. So he's a real, real upstart truth teller really on the he just manages billions of dollars in wealth. You know, he's a he's an insurgent. He's an outsider. He's not like the rest of us. He has he's not like those rich journalists working for I don't know slate. He's not like other girls. So Eric has a brother named Brett, and Brett also is a memberi W. Because nepotism. Brett is a former evolutionary biology professor from Evergreen State College. He got famous when he resigned in two thousand seventeen. Over the school's yearly day of absence. In years passed, during the day of absence, students of color had left campus to have conversations about race and equity, but that year they asked white students to leave campus instead, and Weinstein complained. He said this led the intolerant left to bury him in death threats, which made the campus unsafe for him and forced him to resign and sue his former employer. He received a half a million dollars settlement. Nice good stuff, real honest wages. So Brett operates with his wife, Heather the Dark Horse YouTube channel, which is probably the primary non medical source of irrational iver mect and exuberance. Bain, that's just words, throbber. You can't just say those words in that order and expect me to think something I would, I can, and I have Oh okay hm. So Brett and his wife left on the anti parasitic drug as soon as the first studies into its efficacy were released. Like the FLCCC, he started off by pointing out that he had a history of being right about important COVID facts that the medical establishment had been wrong about, namely wearing a mask. You remember when we were out of masks, and doctor said it might not be necessary because we didn't know much about it at that point. Well, Brett claims he was right about that. Who the funk knows, um, So it's not like masks were an option for most of us. We were cutting them out of fucking t shirts, Brett. Anyway, I'm gonna quote next from Vice. They began promoting I've Met In this spring and interviewed Corey on their podcast in early June. Corey claimed that public health bodies are ignoring the potential uses of iver mactin in the fight against COVID nineteen, perhaps deliberately striking the same conspiratorial tone that often arises in conjunction with flimsy medical claims. He speculated that a World Health Organization committee was told they can't come out of that room with a recommendation for iver macten. Corey and Weinstein both agreed that COVID nineteen vaccines are being promoted at the expense of other treatments, seemingly for the benefit of the same sinister they's whom they imply control the w h O and other health agencies. Another podcast featured Weinstein literally taking iver mactin on air. We are not going to make any recommendations as to what you should do, Weinstein said shortly before doubting the drug. And we're not going to say anything conclusive about what the data say, because the data are not themselves conclusive. However, it doesn't mean the data don't imply things. Robert I fear that our medium is the source of all of society's current ills. Well, social media, our medium is part of its. Social media is really what got the ball rolling before podcasts were because this is also on YouTube where he's doing. It's like it's all part of it. Podcasts are part of it. To this part of it's this whole. You know, Barry Weiss talks about the gate there were too many gatekeepers, um. And the problem is now there are. There's no such there's no gate there's nothing at all. You just pick the facts that are most convenient to you, um, and then you get increasingly violently agitated when reality doesn't line up with those facts, and so you attack the capital and start storming school board meetings and threatening to murder school administrators who demand people. I think that they're still gates, but the gates are far tinier and very easy to knock over. So it's like there's one person to each gate, and so you could just walk up and they're like, yeah, come on in whatever, Like there's no institutional gate. Not that I'm advocating for an institutional gate, but in this case, there were. There were probably were way too. It's not like I'm not saying like, oh, we need to go back to the good old days when Walter Cronkite was the entirety of news, you know, when there was one source of news. Of course, not the fact that there is a massive that you can make millions of dollars if you just wait until somebody makes a vague suggestion that a medication might be helpful and then tell them to issue all proven medications in favor of that, and then claim that you're being silenced by medical authorities when doctors say what you're saying is a bad idea and that way you make huge amounts of money. That's bad. Yeah, you should have to be able to like prove what you're claiming if you're claiming to be an authority. I think I don't know. I don't know what the long term solution is, and I don't think we'll find it, um, but maybe it would be something like, Okay, well you told a bunch of people to take iver meton and not get vaccinated, and these people died, So we're going to shoot you in a field. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I mean in minecraft, of course, but I I see what you're saying. So Weinstein went on in that episode to claim that neither he or his wife have been vaccinated quote because we have fears, as we have discussed it length on this podcast, and that given the apparent effectiveness that iver mectin and iver mectine preventing COVID nineteen, why would he bother taking the vaccine cost benefit? For me? It makes sense, um. So when VISs asked Heather and her husband which reputable scientific sources they followed on ivermectin, Heather responded like a truly gifted grifter, And as a connoisseur of grifters, I have to give her a little clap for this response. Quote, we are not following any particular experts. That isn't what scientists are supposed to do. We have been in continue to read the scientific literature as it emerges. The one exception to this is with regard to Protocol for using Ivermectin as a prophylact against COVID nineteen, which is listed on the website for the front Line COVID nineteen Critical Carolines, an organization of dot years of what Dr Corey is a leading figure. So we don't we aren't following any experts, but we are only listening to this one guy and taking this medicine because he said too, Um, it's good ship. Sure sure, no, that that's solid solid. This is like absurd, Okay, now after it's good stuff. After Brett took iver met and Live on air, Heather claim she and her entire family began taking it as a prophylactic. At one point, Brett Weinstein acknowledged that his advice might stop people from getting vaccinated. Quote, they could well contract COVID nineteen when they otherwise would not have. They might die. That's not a responsibility I want, but it's I feel it's one I must take on because the analysis that matters is the net analysis. What is the best policy from the point of view of reducing the number of people lost to this disease as opposed to lost to adverse reactions to vaccines? So that's bad but it is Brett acknowledging again that he know he's going to get people killed. It's him claiming, of course that is net he's getting less people killed, but he fucking knows what he's doing, right, That's that's I mean, I guess that's not even really tripping me up logic wise, because it's abundantly clear that this that this group is aware that this is a risk the entire time. And I feel like that is like, in the case of Joe Rogan, one of the only things that is preventing him from falling off the edge of a cliff is he will never acknowledge that he knows that what he is doing that hundreds of millions of people consume every week, has a demonstrable harm. And if he admits that, then the game has kind of changed a little bit for him. But the fact that he would admit it, like Brett, I mean, would it would admit that he's well aware of the consequences of his actions in public, that easily is like just speaking of the consequences of his actions, Jamie, So do tell oh yeah, oh no, we'll we'll be we'll be getting to the consequences of it. But you know. So. Brett has more than five hundred sixty thousand followers on Twitter and three d and fifty one thousand followers on YouTube. One of his followers was an Englishman named Leslie Lawrenson. Note that I said was oh. Leslie regularly shared Brett's content. Underneath one post where in Leslie shared one of Brett's videos, he wrote, quote and this is this is Leslie iver. Meton has been around for forty years. There have been more than four billion doses administered in that time, and its risk profile is extremely well known. Frontline doctors across the world have reported that it is not only safe, but extremely effective and ji successfully treating COVID nineteen. Yet its use as being suppressed and blocked by every single government that is within the purview of big pharma and the mainstream media is exercising a media blackout a k a. Censorship regarding its existence so that the sheep never get to hear about it. Shortly after that, he posted a video announcing that he had caught COVID nineteen and that he was glad of this because the virus was nothing different from a normal illness and the potential risks of the vaccine were not worth it. Days later, his family found him dead in his home. God, I mean, it's like, do you need a more one to one analysis of what this guy's rhetoric is doing. That's that's like, that's that's negligent homicide. That should be punished the same way as getting somebody with your car when you're wasted. Um lots of platform than ever before Rogan show. And yeah, I'm not you know, I I'm very critical of a lot of like the revolutionary fantasizing among some such sections of the left and the up against the wall bring out the guillotines part, but yeah, sucking bring out the guillotines. Let's do It's like, that's that's that's right. There's some clear cut examples of like, well, that situation calls you're you are knowingly getting people killed for your own personal benefit and I don't really care what happens to you, Brett, And it's not even he can't even like and and there's nay him to the faces and he knows the names and he knows the faces and he doesn't give a ship like that is just horrific. Anyway, Let's have a Nuremberg for disinformation um and like the actual Nuremberg Court, most of the guilty people will get off scott free and later wind up working for NASA, And then someone will make to Joe Rogan designing the first successful mars Lander. H Joe Rogan is the Berner von Brown in this Yeah what sorry? I see the spaceship that Joe Rogan makes. Do you I mean, is it possible to make a bigger uh like Penis complex and Jeff Bezos is? I would like to see Joe Rogan try. You know, I don't think that Joe Rogan has that same particular issue that Jeff Bezos has. What what do you think his problem is? What makes he has a lot of rob But he strikes me. I don't think he's insecure like that. That does not strike me as Joe Rogan's issue. Clearly, fucking both Bezos and Musk are, but I think Joe Rogan is. I think Joe Rogan would have been a perfectly banal, perhaps even positive influence on society if we had never developed the Internet. He would have been. He would have been great at you go in to watch a bunch of sweaty guys punch each other and Joe is an entertaining announcer, and that would have been factor residuals and like living in Glendale for the rest of his life, and we wouldn't have known the difference. No, And you could say, oh, I like Joe Rogan, and people would say, oh, yeah, the guy who made people eat bugs. He was funny, and that would be the end of the motherfuck. I would have no lover. I love when people eat bugs. It's when you start spreading disinformation to hundreds of millions of people, to the point where, like you were saying, even if you don't give a shit about him, you can't escape the consequences of his actions, which he claims is free thinking. I just I'm getting all sweaty like a Joe Rogan just thinking about it. I can't stand it. Jamie, you're so shiny right now. Oh my gosh, I'm so shy. I'm sorry. All the blood is at the surface of my skin. And that's why that's happening. Well, you know what, sweat it's gonna it's gonna be some weird, weird thing that will make you sweat as the ad. But yeah, what's not going to actually a lot of our because like if you're taken, if you're taking dick pills, they will cause things that will lead the sweating for sure, you know, fair enough. Sex works. And if you take a Honda Odyssey we're sponsored by Honda hot it is yes, it will, Jamie, Okay, just checking. Honda Odyssey will eat your ass. Um, Oh my god. It doesn't ask for consent. But unlike the Casper mattress, it does not have a good well yeah, at your own discretion. All right, we are back. We are back and and talking about ship. That's none of your goddamn business. During the break, what do you what do you? What are you doing prying into our personal lives? God, damn it. I told you once listener boundaries on boundary. Look, I'm open break down those parasocial walls. Come over to my house, poison me in my sleep. That is that is why we get up. She's like one of four people that I really like. You can find my You can find my address in the show notes. Um, it's the only show note we still publish because Jamie law This is a dressed in a series of recent photo dress come to the duplex I live in. There's no air conditioner and it's very hot, but please don't please. You'll notice, Jamie that we haven't laid any clips of from Brett's YouTube videos. This is because YouTube has started removing his content that discusses ever mected in vaccines. A week or so before I wrote this, Weinstein tweeted YouTube just demonetized both dark Horse channels, wiping out more than half of our family income. Their message dropped the science and stick to the narrative or else. So a bevy of right wing and generally oppositional defiant thought leaders spoke up in Brett Weinstein's defense. These included Matt Taiebe, whose recent turn has really bumped me out being a fan of his earlier work. Matt wrote an article titled meet the censored Brett Weinstein quote, as detailed in why has I ever met? In become a dirty word? Weinstein is on the version becoming one of the more prominent casualties to a censorship movement that it's hard not to see as part of a whier evergreening of America. He's referring to the college that that Brett left because he was being a baby. Yeah, that's where he got he had to resign from because he didn't want to walk out during anyway. It was he made nothing into a big deal because he's a fucking baby like all of these fun Yeah, that's the m O, right. You know what happens when people ask me to do stuff I don't want to do. I I just quietly go don't do it, and I don't make a big deal about it, because because why would you, Like, you don't want to you don't want to leave campus during the day when they ask the white people to leave, Just do keep doing your thing, suck it like, you don't have to make a big deal about it and it'll go away. It's fine. You don't have to. You don't have to make everything. You don't have to be a baby about everything. But if you are a baby about specifically things that the left does, then you'll make millions of dollars becoming a right wing thought leader, which is why he's done it. He doesn't believe anything fun all these people the thought leader is such a meaningless her. I just yeah, every every element of uh this man's being is disgusting to me. Um uh so. Bill Maher also came to Brett's defense, along with of course, Barry Weiss, glid Greenwald and busy on She's on Bill Maher all the time. It's the most effective Republican working today at it. And it's so funny because Barry Weiss, in her first article in the id W is like, I hope they get a handle on grifters and people spreading misinformation, but of course when they actually do that, she defends them to the fucking hill because she's also wait, not the grifters, I like, makes eight hundred grand year writing shitty sub stack articles about how canceled she is. No who is read by these None of these fucking people actually suffer consequences. They just wind about the consequences they're not suffering because they're fucking babies. Fucking hate all these people. So um Ben Shapiro aimed breadths demonetization on the increasingly sensorious laughed Weinstey took the Odyssey an alternative YouTube replacement for canceled people, but the reality is that he has not been at all censored. YouTube's policies on iver Mectin are extremely liberal, as this quote from Vice makes clear, and I think this is by Anna Merlin. She's done a lot of the best reporting on the ivermectin stuff. Yeah, I like her a lot um quote. Weinstein's tweets called the YouTube decision an assault on science. But according to YouTube, even materials that advocate for the use of unproven COVID treatments like iver mectin or hydroxy clerquin would be allowed, so long as there's some nod to the fact that medical and health authorities worldwide don't currently recommend them as a COVID treatment. Ivermectin as an anti parasite and has been widely and safely used in both humans and animals for that purpose for decades, among other things. As an example, the company pointed to a January video from Dr Mike Hanson, an internist and pulmonologist, who said he was cautiously optimistic about iver mecton as a treatment option, but acknowledged that the studies conducted on it up to that point weren't numerous or necessarily high quality. You see, Brett was not demonetized for being a truth teller. He was demonetized because YouTube's policies. You can say, hey, ivermectin white might work. You can even you can even tell people things that might leave most of them to take ivermectin as long as you're saying, hey, this isn't proven yet and the studies are very much inconclusive. Right, there's you can talk about iver emecton, you can talk about remcting research. You can't say it's a wonder drug that works better than the vaccines, because that's a fucking lie that will get people killed. Brett, you fucking idiot. Um, He's not an idiot. He's very good at making a lot of money in a very specific evil. No, it's like he's he knows exactly what he's doing. Like he's he's very cannily manipulating the information ecosystem in order to make a profit. And he is will he does not care that it's killing people. Um, and he him through the shredder. That's my best guiety idea. I've been saying it for years, the largest shredder available. I think. Actually what you should do is exclusively let him hang out in a room with his biggest fans. Make him live with them, and he has to listen to all of their opinions, no matter how long winded they are, which they all are. COVID from them, and he hust to let them cough on him again. Brett is claiming to be censored and shipped. He was not censored. He broke incredibly permissive policies that YouTube has set by literally stating on air that i ever Metton was quote something like a dcent effective at stopping you catching COVID, which it is not, Which it is not. They're made. We may find when conclusive results come in that i ever Metton has a medical case use for COVID nineteen. There is a non distinctly non zero chance of that um, perhaps even a decent one, that it has specific uses in eatment um. It is not a percent effect if at stopping you catching COVID. It's just not. You know why. Some of the people who listen to Brett Weinstein are dead now. So of course Brett is now doing the canceled truth tellers circuit. Barry Weiss compared him getting demonetized and having videos removed from YouTube to a book burning um quote, how have we gotten to the point we're having conversations about important scientific and medical subjects require such a high level of personal risk. How have we accepted a reality which big tech can carry out the digital equivalent of book burnings? And why is it that so few people are speaking up against the status quo. Also, by the way, Barry, Weiss and Brett would all have been huge fans of the original Nazi book burnings because those were deliberately targeting the healthcare of trans people. Um Anyway, Joe Rogan has acted as a significant amplifier of Weinstein's nonsense. In an episode with comedian Dave Smith, Rogan said that he'd been listen thing to Weinstein and Hyans advice on ivermectin. In the same episode, he said that COVID vaccines weren't necessarily for most people, and that getting them was just virtue signaling for a lot of us. Quote, if you're like twenty one years old and you say to me, should I get vaccinated? I'll go no now. In his defense, Rogan later called himself a fucking moron for this, which is, to be fair, an unequivocal statement of fact, that that was a stupid fucking thing that he said. The problem is that, again, a hundred million people listened to those fucking shows. How many of them made healthcare decisions based on what you said earlier and maybe didn't catch the other thing right Like I found Jordan Peterson tweeting about ivermectin and stuff, and he tweets both the positive and the negative studies. Guess which one gets twice as many likes and retweets, Like, dude, it's I look, I say this as a comedian. Don't fucking listen to us. We don't unless we have unless there's footnotes, unless there's ship that is like demonstrably but like there, I don't know this whole, Like it's just not true, Like don't try. Why would you trust someone who makes a living monetizing their opinions. That's like the worst, It's impossible. It drives me up a wall anytime someone like they're like, oh, comedians are the philosophers, and they're like, no, they're they're not. No, they monetize their opinions. That are kind of funny sometimes like that, you know what. He also had a three minute bit about a twelve year old girl's genitals. Maybe we shouldn't have listened to any of them that much, Like there's so like it's none of it age as well, it's not based it's like by design, not based in fact, unless they're working in some other fucking capacity, Like why obviously Joe Rogan doesn't know what he's talking about. Like then his job description that he states his opinions for money. I wondered extent. You know, Jamie, you and I both worked at Cracked for different periods of time and different checks chunks. We both we both cash them checks from the old place. Um. And a big part of cracks business model was like getting people to pay attention to fact based articles, to like to learn things by kind of wrapping them in comedy. Um, boy howdy, there isn't a day that goes by that. I don't wonder did that do more harm than good in the end, because obviously we weren't doing this kind of ship. We were not giving people healthcare advice about like telling them how to take vaccines. But the broader trend of like well, it's like it's the same with the John Stewart stuff, right the Daily Show, where it's like, well, this is you know, quote unquote better news than the real news, and it's like, well, no, no, it's not. It. Maybe it maybe better news than what talking heads on like twenty four hour news channels give you. Sure it may be better than like different news anchors, but also what they're doing. Is that journalism. They're just reading from a fucking pro about actual journalism, Like it's not that's a different brand of monetizing your opinions. Like the problem is so drawt and it's not a right wing problem. The right wing has monetized and most effectively and used it most effectively to derail human civilization. But it's it's it's a human problem and part of the problem like fundamentally a big part of the issue that like, if somebody makes you laugh, you listen to them because we like to laugh. Like sure, I mean we're beneficiaries of that, absolutely, absolutely. And there's definitely people who think that I know things that I do not know I am. I am a legitimate, recognized expert on on two things. One of them is how extremist groups use the Internet to recruit and radicalize people, and the other is how not to die while taking weird research chemicals that you bought off of a Canadian pharmaceutical website and anything else that I tell you, I'm not an expert. Um, you can ask me about cathy comics, and you can ask me about the history of Chucky cheese, animatronics, anything else. It's and I don't even I wouldn't even say that I'm like an expert on mensa. I have experience with them, I've researched them, but it's I can't claim to be the main expert on that. That's a very large issue that you saying. That has made me decide to make you my primary healthcare provider. Now, how much cancer should I have removed? Because I feel like some of it's gould to keep, right, you want to have some in there just so you don't get lazy, right, Well, I like to think of keeping some in there as a memory. Yeah. The science of memories is uh is very under researched, and I would say that I'm an expert in in memories. You want to keep your physical ailments in you just about like two or three percent, and you do run the risk of them growing and hurting you, But don't you wouldn't you be sadder if you lost the memory? Absolutely? See, this is the kind of hard getting medical advice that podcasts were invented to give. It's just like it's it's it's so it's so frustrating that this is happening at the end, and at some point it's like I feel like Joe Rogan has reached this level of cognitive dissonance where he has to tell himself that it's you know, not causing the clear harm that it's that it's causing because it's like too late on his career trajectory to start backpedaling it. That he's you know, platforming really dangerous people and has been for basically the entire run of his show. I wonder how much he thinks about it, because I I fucking do a lot, Janie, and I don't try not like I don't give people health care advice unless I'm literally reading here is the medically recognized advice here, Like with a vaccine, I'll tell you to get the vaccine because there's an overwhelming preponderance of evidence that it it saves lives. UM. But you know, there's stuff like we did a Bill Gates episode, right, and I fucked up a fact in it, which was this UM this this circumcision program that I still think has some kind of gross undertones. But I was wrong about a lot of the negatives of that UM and I kind of got I found the source that was not UM that I should have vetted more properly, and I recorded a correction. We put it up in the episode, but by god, there's still people who will like make jokes about that part of the episode that makes me think they didn't catch the correction. Um, And that is which minor compared to showing people not to get vaccinated. But it's still like, sure it should worry, but did you do this? Yeah, I mean it's it is um And I feel like the nature of and this isn't even a criticism of Joe Brogan. I mean it's this is like the nature of podcasts and the nature of a lot of whatever. Like I can't think of a less like a worst term in the on the planet, but like content creation in general, is that there is such a pressure on people to release so much so quickly that it's like it's inevitably there's going to be stuff that isn't carefully vetted enough because of the capitalistic demand for there to be more and more and more of it. And it's I mean the amount I mean, if you just think of the sheer amount of information and just like stuff that Joe Rogan releases into the world in a single week, there's no way that it could be properly vetted there's not enough time to properly vet a show like that, and it's like, well, then maybe there's an issue with how it's being done. I don't, but but there's such a clear incentive for him to do that that maybe that makes it worth the cognitive dissidence that he's clearly hurting people. I don't know, it's just it's it's it's a real problem, Jamie. I mean, I I don't know. This is this is like the biggest moral laundry within my my own life, my own personal ethics. Like I'm way less worried about the ethics of me personally driving a fucking car that burns gasoline, and I am worried about the ethics of life we got behind the Bastard's got like five and a half million downloads last month, right, and then another one point. Well, but I'm something up And depending on what you funk up, it can permanently alter someone's the way people think about the world. And I'm not trying to be arrogant there. I have people talk to me about the influence things that I've said have had on them, and I think it's generally been positive. Like it's often someone being like I was, you know, on the alt right or whatever and like the night, and so I feel fine about that, but like you don't actually know what impact you're having on all them, because maybe it's more subtled for a lot of people. Maybe you say something off handedly that is inaccurate, and for whatever reason, it causes someone to make a choice they wouldn't eitherwise have made and they're not even aware of it. Because when you're producing content at that kind of scale, to that kind of that many people, I don't know, we should all be more concerned about what we're doing for a living. I guess I agree. Yeah. I mean it's like we're certainly like not above this criticism in any way. It's something that like I think about all the time where it's I mean, we're we're above it, and that neither you or I or pretending or giving people a vice on taking unregulated and unapproved medications to treat a pandemic. We are better than them, I will say that, Yeah, we're better than the people that are killing people. But that but what a low bar to clear. I think about that a lot, where it's like there's time there's times that people have like I don't know, or just sort of you hear someone's takeaway from your work repeated back to you, and just like I've had moments where someone has said something to me of like well when I heard that you did this, I was like, oh wow, and and it was like, well, that's not really what I was saying. That's not really what I was saying, but that's what you took away. And that's kind of the the risk that you take when you release shipped into the world. Like it's just I don't know, I mean with obviously not a new problem, but on this like scale and in this way, it it really uh is it stressful? Yeah, it's made me. Unfortunately, the most influential people on the planet don't give a ship. So there you go. Yep, so there you They don't think about this at all unless they're thinking. So this was a long digression, but I think a necessary one. Um. I want to get back to that episode. Rogan did the Emergency episode with Weinstein, Weinstein and Dr Pierre Corey Um where they talked about how and one of the things they talked about they brought up a lot of bad science, including the what was it the fucking um um This one of the studies we broke down earlier UM, but one of the things that Corey talked about in that episode was that the virus had been quote eradicated in monkey kidney cells in a lab test UH and the cells. The kidney cells that they had used are called varo cells, which are used by virologists in research UM, including some early research into hydroxy larkin last year. But as Wired reported in increasing evidence suggests that varrow cells actually might be a terrible thing to use for studying treatments to coronavirus is in this way. Quote. Human lung cells contain at least two different enzymes that can help the virus sneak through their membranes. With vario cells, however, only one of those modes of entry is available, and it turns out to be the one that hydroxy chlorine will block. Pullman and his team publish the results in the journal Nature on July twenty two. For him, it's a clear example of while using human lung cells is really important in studying this pandemic virus, varrow cells should be handled with caution. Pullman says, it's true that the varo cells are very popular, but unfortunately for this particular aspect of COVID nineteen research. They are absolutely not useful. I think this is now clear to the field. And that's again part of the issue. What Corey is saying isn't a lie. You couldn't prosecute him for it or like take his medical license. It's true that there was a study where they eliminated COVID the nineteen and monkey kidney cells in the lab test using i've ever met. The problem is that when you actually look in varo cells in their use in COVID nineteen virology research, they're very flawed. And that's not what you're getting in that fucking Joe Rogan episode. And it's a thing that it's very frustrated um. In conversations with Rogan, Weinstein Pup pushed the extremely successful line of claiming that iver mectin is being suppressed as a treatment because it's not profitable. You have a drug that's good enough to in the pandemic at any point you wanted. Who decides to prioritize business interests ahead of that? I find it hard to imagine. He speculated that the pharmaceutical industry has corrupted the system of approving new drugs and that because there's no profit to be made from ivermectin, it's being ignored or smothered now. During their emergency episode discussion, Dr Pierre Corey backed Weinstein up in this line of reasoning, claiming no one is going to fund pharmaceutical trials around i've emectin. No one, he said, is championing i've e mectin except for my little group of nonprofit doctors. I can't say they're not nonprofit. I'm not. Really, my little doesn't mean they're not making money. That's how nonprofits work. Yeah, yeah, boy, Okay that was that gave me a migraine. Okay. Also, what he said is just objectively untrue. A lot of people are funding pharmaceutical trials around ivermectin. A study from Spain was published earlier this year that showed no difference in outcomes as a result of ivermectin use. Oxford University just announced that they would be studying ivermacton as part of a massive study on COVID treatments. There have been a bunch of studies on ivermectin which are very like have a lot of disputing, like different kind of results to them, but like it's not. It's not being ignored, it's being studied. You're just demanding that people come to a conclusion about it before the actual science is there, because you're a grifter. Now, it's worth noting that the main manufacturer of iver macton Um has also warned people against taking their medicine from cod that they recently announced that their own product has quote no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID nineteen from pre clinical trials, no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID nineteen disease, and a concerning lack of safety data. And I'm not one to go to bat for big pharma, but they have a profit motive in they would make a lot of money by pretending otherwise. Um right, So yeah, it's it's like, I don't even think it's going too bad for big Farma to say that. The fact that they it was this series of an issue that yeah, from a like game check, like what else do you need to hear? Please stop taking our horse medicine for covid? So right, right, they don't do that very often. They're not one to pass on a check. We've talked about the flcc in the intellectual dark web so far. But there's one last bad actor in the Iramicton story that I should probably explain, an organization called America's Frontline Doctors. These cats came onto the scene in July when a group of them gave a press conference on the steps of the Supreme Court urging people to take hydroxy clerk wine. They claimed that the mental toll of the lockdowns was worse than the virus, which by that point had killed several hundred thousand Americans. While the FLCCC started their public careers by making serious medical claims that wound up being very valid, the a f l D was bogus from the get go. They timed their coming out speech to coincide with a major push President Trump made to convince governors to reopen states. The basic idea was that hydroxy clerklin was all the medicine American needed to reopen. This was patently absurd, and the medical community responded accordingly. From time quote, to the extent that the mainstream medical community paid attention to the group at all, it was to point out that these doctors making the statements lacked the expertise to comment. There was no evidence that any of the doctors who spoke that day had treated patients severely ill with the virus. According to MedPage Today, a peer reviewed medical news site, none of them were infectious disease experts or worked in intensive care units during the pandemic. One was best known for promoting bizarre religious beliefs, including tweeting that American needed deliverance from demon sperm because people were falling ill from having sex with demons and witches in their dreams. Two of the front line, two of them were ophthalmologists, only one of which was still licensed the emergence. Yeah, so again f l C c C. These are more credible doctors. But just because someone says it's an organization of doctors, dig a little deeper. You know who else? Were all doctors? The guys prescribing people in l A marijuana back in the mid odds, and most of them were day drunk while doing it. They were not doing medicine. They were giving us access to pot, which it is fine, but it wasn't medicine, which is it's a victimless crime, but it's so. The quote from Time the emergence of a f l D was a coordinated political effort months in the making. The group was the brainchild of the Council for National Policy, a secretive network of conservative activists. During a May eleventh call of CNP members that was leaked to the Center for Media and Democracy, a progressive watchdog, group members complained that Trump was being slammed for his handling of the pandemic, including failing to follow scientific guidelines. The group needed their own medical professionals to promote their message, they said, in the face of data showing two thirds of Americans were wary of restarting the economy, so very much an AstroTurf sort of thing to to justify a reopening, you know, at the cost of people's lives. Nancy Schultzer, republican activist, had spoken up during this call and hinted at the existence of the a f l D. Quote, there was a coalition of doctors who were extremely pro Trump that have been preparing and coming together for a war ahead in the campaign on healthcare, and these doctors could be activated for this conversation. Now, get it's all out there. All of this is public information. Obviously they're talking about they're talking about this like they're fucking like deep frozen Marvel heroes that they could be activated for a that's just yeah, but you know, okay, frozen Marvel hero Jamie who, the products and services that support this podcast all crash landed into the Arctic while trying to something to do World War two? Right? Do they have good butts? Do they have good butts? It's incredible sometimes talking about Chris Evans here, right, yeah, we're talking about we're talking about but from as look, nobody's you know, there's a lot of scientific debate about round Iver Mecton. Ain't no debate around Chris evans Is ass. No, that's a there's some things that bring people together, and Chris Evans's ass is one of those things exactly, and a cure for COVID nineteen. Anyway, Roberts what, I don't know. I mean, I guess it's spreading the rumor that Chris Evans, what would you does his like? And I don't want to destroy his ass for fake science. The good news about Chris Evans's ass is that I don't know. I don't know how to continue this joke. So obvious we're back, and obviously scientific evidence eventually made it clear that hydroxy clorkman is not a miracle cure. We got our vaccines. Trump lost the election, and the virus kept mutating because of a bunch of people refused to wait to get vaccinated before going on in public and also to get vaccine. Anyway, whatever it happened, you know the story, listener. The a f l D continued to shift and change to offer effective disinformation at every stage of the pandemic. At the start, the group's leader, Dr Simone Bold had focused on the danger of the lockdown and minimize the deadliness of COVID. Once hundreds of thousands of people were dead, she pivoted to claiming that hydroxy clorkman could save lives and in the pandemic, the a f l d s videos were regular really shown on info Wars, and the group partnered with the right wing conspiracy theorist named Jerome Corsi to sell prescriptions for hydroxy poor quin via a sketchy tele medicine site. In January, Dr Gold took part in the January sixth insurrection. The A f l D sent emails to their begging for urgent and generous donations to withstand such aggressive assaults from the ruthless enemies of free speech. They raised nearly half a million dollars for Gold's legal defense. I know it's rad right, Oh my god, it's good. Okay, just keep reading this. The al spent the spring and early summer engaging in predictable grifts. They held a national RV tour, which sold v I P tickets for a thousand bucks a pop to meet Dr Gold complaints. On the l a f l D telegram channel, they could clear that these appearances were regularly canceled at the last minute. One user in Cleveland wrote on June twenty two that hundreds of US registered and received no information or cancelation notice, to which the a f l D monitors responded the events could quote continue only when everyone donates what they hand monthly. Just a fucking grift. With the luster off of hydroxy corkland, the A f l D focus of messaging on just being anti vax for a while. They called the vaccines experimental biological agents and blamed them for forty five thousand deaths. All of this was pretty bog standard stuff, and the A f l D was honestly languishing a little behind the pack in terms of COVID disinformation until ivermectin came onto the scene. When it did, the A f l D turned out to have the best infrastructure in place to take advantage of it because they had been They had this telemedicine network, They had these deals with like companies with pharmacies and whatnot through a telemedicine network to prescribe people hydroxy corkland, and they were able to just pivot that ship to getting people prescriptions for ivermectin, And they had a hundred and sixty thousand followers on their telegram channels to sell shipped. To quote from Time, two pharmacists told Time they were alarmed when they noticed an odd surgeon I ever met in prescriptions called in by telemedicine doctors in recent weeks. We're calling it the second coming of hydroxy poor quint. When pharmacist in Maine says noting he had seen prescriptions come in from quack telehealth prescribers in Texas, Florida, Illinois, and California, it's wild to me and other pharmacists I've talked to you how people won't get a vaccine that is well tolerated and effective because it's experimental, but they'll take a dose of ipromectin that's been extrapolated based on weight from equine veterinary guidelines. On social media, a f l D is one of the top organizations steering customers to the de warming medication as a coronavirus treatment. On its website, people looking for COVID nineteen medicine are told to click on the link labeled contact a Physician and pay ninety dollars for a consultation. The link takes customers to another website, Speak with an m D, where they're asked to submit payment information and told one of the frontline doctors will call them within a few days, with sick patients being prioritized. The group describes this is the same process that you, like, get your dog to be able to go on a plane with you an emotional support dog system, whereas your just give someone a hundred dollars and then you get to do what you want for base stically no reason or to not have to pay sorry to like get your dog into a building, which is fine. So the service they use is called Encore Telemedicine, which is one of a bunch of different services that purports to connect patients to doctors who can write prescriptions. A lot of perfectly legitimate services do this. I've gotten prescriptions for allergy meds and the like renew it this way. But the doctor I do telemedicine through was also a real doctor that I visited in person since two Well, yeah, my doctor offers you can do like follow up visits and stuff via zoom and stuff during the pandemic, and so it's like, yeah, I believe you're visiting a real doctor. Yeah, yeah, for that, I'm visiting a real doctor. When I went ketemy and I go to a Mexican veterinary well actually usually just to feed supply story. They sell it O TC over there. Rot. Do you want some ketamine? Jamie? Want not today? I mean give me a couple of weeks. Say your friend's dog has nerve pain. Oh, I've h I don't know. I don't know. You're doing what you're doing what all those boys in high school tried to do to be It's funny because I went with a friend, Uh, well he tried to get ketamine first, allegedly. Uh. And they wouldn't sell him ketamine because he's like tattoos his own hands and just looked like the kind of person who was trying to buy drugs from Mexican veterinary store. And I just like memorized how to say. I think it was Mi amigos pero es delores de nervos katemino portovore, which crudely means my friend's dog has nerve pain. Can you give me some ketamine? And by god it worked every time? That is, how can you get medicine for your friend's dog? That makes no sense? Uh? You know what, I know you didn't fool Yeah, So anyway, since two thousand fifteen, Encore has been run from a golf club in suburban Georgia, so not a real doctor. About as legitimate as my ability to get Academy prescriptions written from Encore go through Ravcup, a digital pharmacy in Florida whose address Time describes as quote a dilapidated white structure by a strip mall. Rev coup calls in prescription orders to local pharmacy sounds like a fake name. Like either fake name is even bad m it's good ship um. When the service switched over to selling prescriptions for ivermectin, Time notes their telegram channels for complaints about the service quote. Many users call the arrangement a fraud. Still no drugs as has prescribed, have not heard from their pharmacy. Very disappointing, wrote one user on telegram August first. It took my money though, definitely feels like a scam. That same day, another frustrated customer wrote, you tell us the vaccine producers are getting rich office. Seems like you are doing very well yourselves. Yeah, maybe follow that line of thought, buddy. Other supporters who had been promised they speak to a f l DS trained physicians were upset when the doctor pressed them to get the vaccine during a paid phone consultation. Not happy at all with that. But one woman who said her doctor's telemedicine doctor had told her to get vaccinated in addition to prescribing iver medon, I felt I could trust them not to push the vaccine. Severely disappointed. He's giving you the drugs like come on. Dozens of messages reviewed by Time were from people with sick family members who were begging for a f l d S to escalate their cases. A woman named Cynthia, who had paid the fee ninety dollars is a lot for us, she said, wrote that she had never been called back. Please help, my husband is sick and it looks like he does have a hard time breathing. Moderators for the A f l D s group on Telegram have tried to claim that issues with the service or the fault of the CDC, who they say have carried out a blockade on iver mecton. When clients complain about failing to received services once their physician fee is paid, a f l D claims that this is out of their hands quote because of hippa. But there is no blockade of ivermectin. The simple reality is that all these groups have so thoroughly fucked the information ecosystem around COVID that people have bought up every pill, dip and paste body they can find, while Joe Rogan and others like him get the prescribed human version of the drug. Desperate people who believe the f l C, C c R, A f l D or Brett Weinstein often wound up self medicating with fucking sheep dip. And this brings us to Facebook. Of all the things we've talked about, most of the ivermectin Facebook stuff is not a grift. It's the result of guys at the top, like Dr Corey and Weinstein spreading vaccine distrust in vague bullshit about ivermectin and institutions like the a f l D being unable to provide prescriptions for most of their clients. A lot of people who believe the ship are too poor to use these service as anyway, so they turn to veterinary medicine and so and because like they're trying to figure out how to use it, right, they want advice they can't afford to use any of these other services. They get on Facebook groups, right, These are not There are grifters in these groups. There are people who like scan for just like what random medications people are telling you to to take on Facebook and then buy them up to sell them and stuff like that does happen. But most of these people just think they're protecting their family and are very bad at vetting information. Um. So there's a shipload of these ivermected Facebook groups. Some of them have tens of thousands of members. More pop up every day. Vice did a solid investigation where they looked at several of these groups and quote in another group with more than two thousand members, an administrator focused Wednesday on updated protocols from the Frontline COVID nineteen Critical Care Alliance the FLCCC, the administrator wrote, is as of this week advising people to take two to three times as much iver mectin as it had previously recommended for early treatment of COVID. Members of the group studied charts and attempt to find out just how much they would need to squirrel away. And yet another group, which has twenty six thousand members and promotes itself as a medical team, a user who had just tested positive for COVID, asked for help. I tested positive this afternoon, day two of symptoms, she wrote, and I literally cleaned out my pharmacy supply of ever mecton and I only have enough for two doses until Friday. I'm one pill short of each dose from my weight. Basically, I have to skip a day and I can only have one dose accurately weight based until I get more on Friday. Should I take one full weight based dose and one less than weight based or two equal doses both the same amount. Either way, I have to skip a whole day, which is disappointing. Users advised her to frontload her dosing from maximum efficacy. Facebook's rules officially prohibit this sort of thing. You're not allowed to sell fake cures for COVID or make claims that are unfounded COVID treatments. But the reality is that the sheer size of Facebook makes moderation impossible and they don't really try. Um. When Vice brought specific groups up to Facebook, those groups were removed. But I ever, meta aficionados keep creating new slang terms to use for the medication in order to evade sensors. We saw this with like the Boogloo boys going with big Igloo or whatever. Right, it's just how this ship works. In these groups, people don't just provide each other with advice on how to acquire and take ivor macdon. They provide emotional support for what they believe as an unfair crusade against what doctor Corey calls a wonder drug. Quote help a person posted to a Facebook group laying out the particulars of how a family member hospitalized with COVID nineteen was being treated with oxygen, antibiotics, steroids and expectorants. He's going downhill fast. They're not willing to give him iver mecdon. Why do hospitals not allowed treatment of iver mecdin. I still can't wrap my mind around it. Another distressed person who described their father being hospitalized with COVID nineteen posted to a Facebook group is it straight up money? Later, this person updated their post. I just talked to the doctor with all the bad news. I asked him about iver mecdin. He said the words that will haunt me forever, iver mecton as a quack. This fucking doctor trolled me as he's telling me my dad is dying. Oh my god. M hmm. It's rough ship now when taken as direct excuse, Jamie, ivermectin is actually a very safe drug if you are taking it the way it is supposed to be taken and taking it for things that it helps with. Yes, it's a very safe drug, but many of these people are just buying horse paste and taking crude calculations again, like the FLCCC just tripled how much they recommend you say overdoses of ivor mactan are becoming increasingly common and have a variety of side effects from blurred vision, dizziness, hallucinations, lung issues, comas, and seizures. According to the CDC, there has been a three increase in calls to poison centers this year and a fivefold increase from the baseline in July, and most of that is believed to be resulting from ib mactin use. In Mississippi, at least thirteen people called poison control if you're taking iver mactin in a single month. Sevent of those calls from people who ingested veterinary forms of the drug, and like as I. After I finished this episode, there were new articles one patients overdosing on ivry mactan are backing up rural Oklahoma hospitals and ambulances from news for UM. Yeah, Dr Gellia said that patients are packing his Eastern and Southeastern Oklahoma hospitals after taking I ever met indoses meant for a full size horse. UM. The e r s are so backed up that gunshot victims are having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and treated. So that's fu UM. And there's another one. It's just yeah, I've met in. Poison control calls increased in Minnesota in mid COVID nineteen pandemic. Sorry, I won't even read a quote. It just keeps happening. It's everywhere. It's increasingly common. Um, So yeah, and it's and and and the fact that this is even happening. I mean, it's just I don't know, the Facebook group uh posts, those are so fucking stark, And it's like, in order to even and I'm I guess I'm speaking strictly to Americans specifically, or you know, people from rich countries that have plenty of fucking vaccines, um that it's like this in order to be engaging really firmly with you know that kind of stuff, you've already been sold and convinced of several bills of lies like this, The iver imacting thing is several layers deep, and things that you already needed to have believed in order to get to the point where this would be sold to you as an idea of hope and an idea of of of handling disease. It's just, God, it's terrible. It's terrible because it's like, I don't know, it's when stories like this, it always it's hard because it's like they're whatever. People are firing off tweets that are objectively funny about ship like this. But then when you when you hear comments like that and you hear specific things, it's like those. It's just like several layers of coercion and desperateness that lead to the way people the way people are acting and putting themselves in their families at risk. Like it's just talking off so things I learned. So I just mentioned blurred vision isn't common overdose side effect and ivermectin. Because of this, a lot of people in these Facebook groups are not telling each other that you know it's working when your vision gets blurred. That now people are giving themselves river blindness. It's amazing. Um, there's I'm not going to go in and read these, but there's a lot of reports of people pooping what they think are worms and now they're convincing themselves like, oh, I've got parasites and what's actually happening. We talked about this in the Bleached Drinking Church episode, where like parents are forced to bleached to their artistic kids to cure it, and they see that they're like passing all of these these they're they're full of parasites. They're passing these worms. It's intestinal lining. They're shifting out the landing of their intestines because they put so much poison into their fucking bodies. Um, it's just without it's like as I'm talking about Yeah, yeah, hm, I don't know. Yeah, it's a lot of what we were talking amote in part one and also now is is like it to me? And I'm not an expert in in this in any way, but it seems like a lot of the issues with autism anti vaxers was that they read a bunch of bullshit studies that were not proven, and we're later redacted, but it didn't matter because the damage had already been done and it's like that same exact pattern is present here. Yeah, and when that study gets redacted, that's just proof that the deep state censorship. Yeah. Ship anyway, Jamie, how you feeling? That's the episode? Oh man demolished? How are you? Oh? Pretty good? I think I might get back out onto my Lana. I pick a couple of tomatoes, you know. Oh yeah, Well, as long as you're as as long as you're on the Lanai consuming your produce that I think that you know, you'll you'll be fine. I've got to go. I've got to go take five rain pills and sweat in a freezing cold room. That idea sounds like we're doing yes, yes, it's the new golden standard for all comedians. We have to do it or we'll never work in this town again. That this town being Austin, Texas, of course, mhm, the only town, in my opinion, Jamie, where can the good people on the internet find you other than Austin, Texas where you are no longer allowed? After I was, I was banished, I was banished. Listen I sweat too good? I posed a threat. Uh, you can find you can listen to Act casts. That's my podcast about Kathy comics and twentieth century American feminism. You can listen to the Bechtel Cast. You can listen and anything you want. It's not my business. Uh, you can follow me on social media if you can find me. That is, Listen all of Jamie's shows. Just do it, Hey, listen to all my shows. They're great. I'm not yeah, produced every single one of them, even a little. And check out appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast where I get advice on how to learn how to drive with your eyes closed, because you know, big farmers trying to convince people that you need to look at the road like a cock, but real close their eyes and let Look, Luke Skywalker didn't need his eyes to blow up the Death Star. You don't need your eyes to drunk drive down to the seven eleven to get more white cloth. Damn, look on that note, I'm gonna go let my mattress eat my ass. Live your truth. Thanks. Uh This this at cool Zone media at bastards Pot. Okay, bye right