Media, Well, come back to Behind the Bastards. I don't know why I did that, kind of like it was like I was doing a Halloween opening. Didn't work at all, horrible idea. But I'm very happy to announce our guest today back after a long hiatus from this show, but not from our hearts, Iffy and whatdy Wall.

Media, Well, come back to Behind the Bastards. I don't know why I did that, kind of like it was like I was doing a Halloween opening. Didn't work at all, horrible idea. But I'm very happy to announce our guest today back after a long hiatus from this show, but not from our hearts, Iffy and whatdy Wall.

How's it going going to be back?

How's it going going to be back?

Yeah? Oh so happy to have you back. If he you are a significant part of the dropout, a wonderful channel on YouTube that is the survivor of college humor, which is kind of like we're ken in the comedy internet comedy world.

Yeah? Oh so happy to have you back. If he you are a significant part of the dropout, a wonderful channel on YouTube that is the survivor of college humor, which is kind of like we're ken in the comedy internet comedy world.

Yeah, and you guys have been doing some really cool stuff lately, like some of the funnest, like most interesting like quasi game show comedy bits like I've watched hours of it.

Yeah, and you guys have been doing some really cool stuff lately, like some of the funnest, like most interesting like quasi game show comedy bits like I've watched hours of it.

Yeah, yeah, I was, you know, I was talking to Sam and Dave's the kind of like higher ups there, which is, you know, which is a testament to how cool the company is, because no, I haven't spoke to the higher ups at ICC or any of the other companies, but I was like, oh yeah, this is like where like Panel Comedy lives and now after Midnight's back. But I feel like Americans run away from panel comedy shows and I like an excuse to riff and goof with friends.

Yeah, yeah, I was, you know, I was talking to Sam and Dave's the kind of like higher ups there, which is, you know, which is a testament to how cool the company is, because no, I haven't spoke to the higher ups at ICC or any of the other companies, but I was like, oh yeah, this is like where like Panel Comedy lives and now after Midnight's back. But I feel like Americans run away from panel comedy shows and I like an excuse to riff and goof with friends.

Yes, I think, and I think that YouTube and the kind of what people get out of a lot of like streaming stuff too, like not like streaming TV, but like, you know, streamers is that goofing with friends thing. Like I watch red letter media stuff for a lot of the same reason, and I feel like there's a way to save that stuff. It's just not putting it on television at eleven thirty at night necessarily.

Yes, I think, and I think that YouTube and the kind of what people get out of a lot of like streaming stuff too, like not like streaming TV, but like, you know, streamers is that goofing with friends thing. Like I watch red letter media stuff for a lot of the same reason, and I feel like there's a way to save that stuff. It's just not putting it on television at eleven thirty at night necessarily.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, people should be a little more lucid when they're taking in that kind of media. But yeah, where else are you gonna watch? You know, a block trying to think of the name of the show it was. It was the one with the guy he has the it's not a top hat, it's like a fedora almost, and he's a detective and all dads love it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, people should be a little more lucid when they're taking in that kind of media. But yeah, where else are you gonna watch? You know, a block trying to think of the name of the show it was. It was the one with the guy he has the it's not a top hat, it's like a fedora almost, and he's a detective and all dads love it.

Bosh Yes, oh god, I don't even use the tools that Bosh makes. They love Bosh the Bosh heads. Yeah, I would laugh. But I just got into Reacher, which is like it's, you know, it's the stupidest thing on TV, but I love it. It's like, it's like I used to watch a lot of Walker Texas Rangers again the inheritor of that, but not racist or as racist, I guess exactly say not at all.

Bosh Yes, oh god, I don't even use the tools that Bosh makes. They love Bosh the Bosh heads. Yeah, I would laugh. But I just got into Reacher, which is like it's, you know, it's the stupidest thing on TV, but I love it. It's like, it's like I used to watch a lot of Walker Texas Rangers again the inheritor of that, but not racist or as racist, I guess exactly say not at all.

Look, that's why I'm not even going to judge, because I remember one time, me and em we were up in the cabin in right Wood and we needed to kill Tom and we were like, let's watch this nine to one one show whatever, just see and we were like seven episodes in locked. You're like, hold on, this is this? This kind of goes Angela Bassid know what she's doing.

Look, that's why I'm not even going to judge, because I remember one time, me and em we were up in the cabin in right Wood and we needed to kill Tom and we were like, let's watch this nine to one one show whatever, just see and we were like seven episodes in locked. You're like, hold on, this is this? This kind of goes Angela Bassid know what she's doing.

Mm hm oh yeah, no, she's she's a pro. And you know, you can't get work like that or work like you and your colleagues do at the dropout without human beings actually doing things. Which is why today we're here to talk about AI, and particularly we're going to talk about how a lot of the conversation and a lot of the fandom around AI has turned into more or less occult. So that's that's that's the premise of this episode. Iffie, I want to start by going back to a place I was about a week ago as we record this, the Consumer Electronics Show. Every year they've been holding it for a long time now, and it's kind of how the tech industry talks about itself and what it has planned for the future. A lot of it's hype, you know, they're kind of talking up what's coming out that they're hoping we'll get buzzed, we'll make money, but you also get an idea of like what do you think we want and what are you trying to get us excited about? And I think the most revealing product that I saw this year was the Rabbit R one and it's it's a little square shaped gadgets a screen, it's got a little camera that can swivel, and it's an AI that basically you talk to it like you would an Alexa, but it can use your apps and it's supposed to reduce friction in your life by basically routing every move you make online through this machine intelligence. So you tell it what you want to do and it does it instead of like you using like physically using your smartphone as much. You still have to click it sometimes. And I want to play you a clip of this where this is the CEO Jesse Lu's keynote speech.

Mm hm oh yeah, no, she's she's a pro. And you know, you can't get work like that or work like you and your colleagues do at the dropout without human beings actually doing things. Which is why today we're here to talk about AI, and particularly we're going to talk about how a lot of the conversation and a lot of the fandom around AI has turned into more or less occult. So that's that's that's the premise of this episode. Iffie, I want to start by going back to a place I was about a week ago as we record this, the Consumer Electronics Show. Every year they've been holding it for a long time now, and it's kind of how the tech industry talks about itself and what it has planned for the future. A lot of it's hype, you know, they're kind of talking up what's coming out that they're hoping we'll get buzzed, we'll make money, but you also get an idea of like what do you think we want and what are you trying to get us excited about? And I think the most revealing product that I saw this year was the Rabbit R one and it's it's a little square shaped gadgets a screen, it's got a little camera that can swivel, and it's an AI that basically you talk to it like you would an Alexa, but it can use your apps and it's supposed to reduce friction in your life by basically routing every move you make online through this machine intelligence. So you tell it what you want to do and it does it instead of like you using like physically using your smartphone as much. You still have to click it sometimes. And I want to play you a clip of this where this is the CEO Jesse Lu's keynote speech.

Our smartphones has become the best device to kill time. Instead of saving them. It's just harder for them to do things. Many people before us have tried to build a simpler and more intuitive computers with AI. A decade ago, companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon made Siri, Contana and Alixa. With these smart speakers, often they either don't know what you're talking about or failed to accomplish the past. We ask for recent achievements in large language models, however, or LMS, a type of AI technology, have made it much easier for machines to understand you. The popularity of LM chatbots over the past years has shown that the natural language based experience is the pass forward.

Our smartphones has become the best device to kill time. Instead of saving them. It's just harder for them to do things. Many people before us have tried to build a simpler and more intuitive computers with AI. A decade ago, companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon made Siri, Contana and Alixa. With these smart speakers, often they either don't know what you're talking about or failed to accomplish the past. We ask for recent achievements in large language models, however, or LMS, a type of AI technology, have made it much easier for machines to understand you. The popularity of LM chatbots over the past years has shown that the natural language based experience is the pass forward.

Now. I don't know that I entirely agree with that, because I think the biggest influence that these chatbots have had on me is that whenever I try to deal with like an airline or something, I get stuck on chat GPT and it's a pain in the as to do anything.

Now. I don't know that I entirely agree with that, because I think the biggest influence that these chatbots have had on me is that whenever I try to deal with like an airline or something, I get stuck on chat GPT and it's a pain in the as to do anything.

What's so funny about the rise in AI right now is like, if we really think about it, and god damn it, Robert, you threaded the needle right there. When you really think about it, all AI is is just the evolution of the shittiest part of calling. Yes, yes, all, the one thing that we do as soon as we call is like zero zero zero, let me get straight to a human.

What's so funny about the rise in AI right now is like, if we really think about it, and god damn it, Robert, you threaded the needle right there. When you really think about it, all AI is is just the evolution of the shittiest part of calling. Yes, yes, all, the one thing that we do as soon as we call is like zero zero zero, let me get straight to a human.

Let me talk to a human.

Let me talk to a human.

And the and these these like eggheads were like, what if we did more of that? What if we remove your solace from this sad eyes of your life?

And the and these these like eggheads were like, what if we did more of that? What if we remove your solace from this sad eyes of your life?

And it's it's the kind of thing he seems so off from my experience where he's like the problem with phones is that it's too hard to do things. No, it's too easy for me to order a bunch of junk food and have a stranger deliver it. That's been a problem for me, right, Oh yeah, it's too easy for me to waste six hours on Twitter, Like that's what the issue is.

And it's it's the kind of thing he seems so off from my experience where he's like the problem with phones is that it's too hard to do things. No, it's too easy for me to order a bunch of junk food and have a stranger deliver it. That's been a problem for me, right, Oh yeah, it's too easy for me to waste six hours on Twitter, Like that's what the issue is.

Do you know how much the easiness of everything has made me wake up the next morning with cold food on my porch that I never touched.

Do you know how much the easiness of everything has made me wake up the next morning with cold food on my porch that I never touched.

Yes, because it's too easy, It was too easy.

Yes, because it's too easy, It was too easy.

Sometimes we need those those those like bumps in the road to keep drunk stone diffy from ordering a like triple double burger that I'm hoping gets to me and before I fall asleep, it never does.

Sometimes we need those those those like bumps in the road to keep drunk stone diffy from ordering a like triple double burger that I'm hoping gets to me and before I fall asleep, it never does.

I've had so many problems as with my phone, but I don't think I've ever had the problem of like this thing's just too hard to use. Yeah, that's just not a problem I know that anyone has. But but Jesse complains that, you know, there's too much friction with smartphones and his device. That rabbit is going to let you, Like you can just tell it book me a flight or a hotel on Expedia and you don't even have to know, like it'll just pick a hotel for you a lot of the time, or like what flight you know it thinks is the most efficient. Jesse's goal is to basically create AI agents for customers, which like live in this little device you wear and act as you online to handle tasks you normally use your phone to do. So, you can tell your rabbit to book you an uber, you can have a book you a flight, or you can have it plan your trip to a foreign country. Nobody sounds really bad. It sounds so fucking bad.

I've had so many problems as with my phone, but I don't think I've ever had the problem of like this thing's just too hard to use. Yeah, that's just not a problem I know that anyone has. But but Jesse complains that, you know, there's too much friction with smartphones and his device. That rabbit is going to let you, Like you can just tell it book me a flight or a hotel on Expedia and you don't even have to know, like it'll just pick a hotel for you a lot of the time, or like what flight you know it thinks is the most efficient. Jesse's goal is to basically create AI agents for customers, which like live in this little device you wear and act as you online to handle tasks you normally use your phone to do. So, you can tell your rabbit to book you an uber, you can have a book you a flight, or you can have it plan your trip to a foreign country. Nobody sounds really bad. It sounds so fucking bad.

Rabbit's like, hey, how would you like a middle speech seed on.

Rabbit's like, hey, how would you like a middle speech seed on.

Sufficient as hell? Yeah, spirits so cheap. Now you can you can direct it more. But then that just seems like, well, yeah, that's what I'm already doing on my computer. Why is it easiest just to like work through a vocal chatbot that might not understand me, or at least will be as much friction as like, Yeah, when I touch my phone and it hits the wrong thing, right, I just don't see that I'm saving much here. No one also seems to know how Rabbit's going to integrate with all these apps, because that means their device has to have access to them for you, and that's kind of a big ask for all of these different companies. That said, and no one knows, by the way, how secure it's going to be. But no one at CES was listening either, because the first ten thousand pre order models that opened at CES sold out instantly. How does it mean? That doesn't mean a lot of normal people are going to buy it? It means a lot of tech freaks wanted this thing. Yeah, that is the thing.

Sufficient as hell? Yeah, spirits so cheap. Now you can you can direct it more. But then that just seems like, well, yeah, that's what I'm already doing on my computer. Why is it easiest just to like work through a vocal chatbot that might not understand me, or at least will be as much friction as like, Yeah, when I touch my phone and it hits the wrong thing, right, I just don't see that I'm saving much here. No one also seems to know how Rabbit's going to integrate with all these apps, because that means their device has to have access to them for you, and that's kind of a big ask for all of these different companies. That said, and no one knows, by the way, how secure it's going to be. But no one at CES was listening either, because the first ten thousand pre order models that opened at CES sold out instantly. How does it mean? That doesn't mean a lot of normal people are going to buy it? It means a lot of tech freaks wanted this thing. Yeah, that is the thing.

Too, is like, yeah, if you're at c you're already you're already drinking the kool aid. Yes, I you know, And I'm very much It's so funny because I'm very much that guy, or I was very much that guy who wanted to be on that cusp of technology. And I feel like, you know, in my early twenties, it seems so cool because you're like, yeah, I want to be iron man, I want to just have full control. And then you kind of get to the point where you start if you have enough self reflection, you notice that you're just kind of you're using technology to do things that you could just do for much simpler and cheaper, Like, for example, like when you get these apps and then I'm like sitting in a photo editor for like fifty minutes just to make it look like it was shot on film, And I was like, I can buy a disposable camera like that exists. And what's great is when you now when you develop them, they put it, they email it to you so it can go on Instagram. It's going to take longer, but arguably you might get some post flip clarity that pick that didn't look good isn't now on the internet, or you know, you can like spread it out. But yeah, I am getting.

Too, is like, yeah, if you're at c you're already you're already drinking the kool aid. Yes, I you know, And I'm very much It's so funny because I'm very much that guy, or I was very much that guy who wanted to be on that cusp of technology. And I feel like, you know, in my early twenties, it seems so cool because you're like, yeah, I want to be iron man, I want to just have full control. And then you kind of get to the point where you start if you have enough self reflection, you notice that you're just kind of you're using technology to do things that you could just do for much simpler and cheaper, Like, for example, like when you get these apps and then I'm like sitting in a photo editor for like fifty minutes just to make it look like it was shot on film, And I was like, I can buy a disposable camera like that exists. And what's great is when you now when you develop them, they put it, they email it to you so it can go on Instagram. It's going to take longer, but arguably you might get some post flip clarity that pick that didn't look good isn't now on the internet, or you know, you can like spread it out. But yeah, I am getting.

Very you are, like, you are so much more thoughtful in that than like anybody involved in this product has been over the course of their entire life. Now, a couple of skeptics who have given reviews have already noted problems. Richard Lawler of the verbs was like, this thing is not built for left handed people to use, Like they forgotten that left handed people existed, and so they designed it in a way that's specifically a pain in the ass. Which, yes, there's also they brag they have this camera that can like move on its own, so we can cover stuff in front of it or behind it, And a commenter on Lawler's article was like, it's a pretty fundamental design principle that you don't add moving parts if you don't need them. And there's plenty of space in this for a camera in the front and the back, which is one less point of failure, one less thing for shit to get gunked up in. This is actually bad design. They're bragging about this, but it's a bad idea.

Very you are, like, you are so much more thoughtful in that than like anybody involved in this product has been over the course of their entire life. Now, a couple of skeptics who have given reviews have already noted problems. Richard Lawler of the verbs was like, this thing is not built for left handed people to use, Like they forgotten that left handed people existed, and so they designed it in a way that's specifically a pain in the ass. Which, yes, there's also they brag they have this camera that can like move on its own, so we can cover stuff in front of it or behind it, And a commenter on Lawler's article was like, it's a pretty fundamental design principle that you don't add moving parts if you don't need them. And there's plenty of space in this for a camera in the front and the back, which is one less point of failure, one less thing for shit to get gunked up in. This is actually bad design. They're bragging about this, but it's a bad idea.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a couple of other issues in there. You know, we'll see it looks like it's going to be a lot thicker than a smartphone. I just don't know the degree to which a regular it's the same Google glass issue, Right, do you want a second thing that you have to keep on you like alongside your you know.

Yeah, there's a couple of other issues in there. You know, we'll see it looks like it's going to be a lot thicker than a smartphone. I just don't know the degree to which a regular it's the same Google glass issue, Right, do you want a second thing that you have to keep on you like alongside your you know.

Just going to be my question. So I'm glad, So is this a something that should be replacing your phone or is this another thing that you are supposed to be holding on to.

Just going to be my question. So I'm glad, So is this a something that should be replacing your phone or is this another thing that you are supposed to be holding on to.

I think the goal is for it to eventually replace it, but at this point you will still need to have both, so like carry another thing, you know.

I think the goal is for it to eventually replace it, but at this point you will still need to have both, so like carry another thing, you know.

You know, walking around like a drug dealer. You have two different It's kind of bit.

You know, walking around like a drug dealer. You have two different It's kind of bit.

It's a big device and it's it's not tiny and it has a big screen. So it's just like, well, you just made a different kind of smartphone. Again, what am I gaining? Yeah? What he's holding in this video? Correct? Yeah?

It's a big device and it's it's not tiny and it has a big screen. So it's just like, well, you just made a different kind of smartphone. Again, what am I gaining? Yeah? What he's holding in this video? Correct? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, well and what ye what more is like that? On top of tech person, it's definitely the person who carries a power bank with them. So that is a thirst and that's me. So that's three things you're rocking with. I know I have so many power banks and have and ADHD has blocked every single one of them from being useful because you do, I forget to charge them or I forget to bring them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, well and what ye what more is like that? On top of tech person, it's definitely the person who carries a power bank with them. So that is a thirst and that's me. So that's three things you're rocking with. I know I have so many power banks and have and ADHD has blocked every single one of them from being useful because you do, I forget to charge them or I forget to bring them.

It also just doesn't look comfortable. It's bigger than his hand. Oh yes, he's not a teenage We'll get a better look at in a second, because I want to show you when he's talking he's trying to make the case for this and one of like, he spends a significant portion of his not very long keynote on him Rick rolling himself in the most iffy You've gotta fucking watch this. It is so painful.

It also just doesn't look comfortable. It's bigger than his hand. Oh yes, he's not a teenage We'll get a better look at in a second, because I want to show you when he's talking he's trying to make the case for this and one of like, he spends a significant portion of his not very long keynote on him Rick rolling himself in the most iffy You've gotta fucking watch this. It is so painful.

R One has an eye, an onboard camera designed for advanced computer vision. It can analyze surroundings and take actions in real time. To activate the eye, just double tap the button. Oh funny seeing you here, Rick.

R One has an eye, an onboard camera designed for advanced computer vision. It can analyze surroundings and take actions in real time. To activate the eye, just double tap the button. Oh funny seeing you here, Rick.

It's a picture of Rick Astley that he points it at.

It's a picture of Rick Astley that he points it at.

Let me take a look. I'm never gonna get you off.

Let me take a look. I'm never gonna get you off.

Enjoy what am I getting? Rip roll in my own keynotes?

Enjoy what am I getting? Rip roll in my own keynotes?

The next one okay tech keynotes spe to take impromt.

The next one okay tech keynotes spe to take impromt.

Class one like and I don't recommend that to normal people.

Class one like and I don't recommend that to normal people.

Because like you're you're like, no, selling your own joke, just like what you're not even laughing at it? Why am I gonna laugh?

Because like you're you're like, no, selling your own joke, just like what you're not even laughing at it? Why am I gonna laugh?

I will say this that was scripted almost exactly the way Tim Robinson would have written it. Oh man, But I bet Sam Richardson could have delivered that bit better. So that is very funny. But I find this next clip more disturbing because it shows this kind of desire that the people that are the early adopters here have not just for more convenience, but to hand over like the power to choose to a robot that's basically just pulling the first advertised result from Google Like it's kind of messed up.

I will say this that was scripted almost exactly the way Tim Robinson would have written it. Oh man, But I bet Sam Richardson could have delivered that bit better. So that is very funny. But I find this next clip more disturbing because it shows this kind of desire that the people that are the early adopters here have not just for more convenience, but to hand over like the power to choose to a robot that's basically just pulling the first advertised result from Google Like it's kind of messed up.

Ooh, I can also use our one to order foot get me a twelve inch pizza from Pizza Huts. Denvers will hear the most ordered option on the app.

Ooh, I can also use our one to order foot get me a twelve inch pizza from Pizza Huts. Denvers will hear the most ordered option on the app.

Is fine ordering a twelve inch pizza from Pizza Hut. Since you mentioned that the most ordered option is fine, I will select that for you. I just created an order for a twelve inch pizza. It's going to be hand tossed with a classic marinara sauce and topped with regular cheese. Please confirm your order.

Is fine ordering a twelve inch pizza from Pizza Hut. Since you mentioned that the most ordered option is fine, I will select that for you. I just created an order for a twelve inch pizza. It's going to be hand tossed with a classic marinara sauce and topped with regular cheese. Please confirm your order.

That sounds really good. I just come from an order.

That sounds really good. I just come from an order.

He has to click it again, just like on a smartphone. He guess, like, look at the device and click it.

He has to click it again, just like on a smartphone. He guess, like, look at the device and click it.

Here's a freebie for any of even Richard Lawlor, who has been in the game for a long time, but like any of you tech bloggers, I just do a side by side with this video and physically do everything he's doing and the real time, because a pizza would have been ordered way faster if you would have just pulled out your phone.

Here's a freebie for any of even Richard Lawlor, who has been in the game for a long time, but like any of you tech bloggers, I just do a side by side with this video and physically do everything he's doing and the real time, because a pizza would have been ordered way faster if you would have just pulled out your phone.

Well and you could get the pizza you want. Yeah, I like the twelve.

Well and you could get the pizza you want. Yeah, I like the twelve.

Inch Classic marinera most ordered pizza.

Inch Classic marinera most ordered pizza.

I want this shit. I actually like that's so weird.

I want this shit. I actually like that's so weird.

Yeah yeah. Also, who orders a twelve inch pizza from Pizza Hut?

Yeah yeah. Also, who orders a twelve inch pizza from Pizza Hut?

Nobody? Yeah?

Nobody? Yeah?

Then no way? Is that the most ordered product from Pizza Hut. I don't believe it.

Then no way? Is that the most ordered product from Pizza Hut. I don't believe it.

It was definitely paid nonsense.

It was definitely paid nonsense.

Yes, yeah, it's just like yeah, and they're the next clip. I don't think we'll actually play it, but like it is, it's him saying, hey, plan out like a three day vacation in London for me, And as far as I can tell, the AI goes for like the first top ten list of things to do in London that it finds, which was probably written by an AI, and then makes an itinerary based on those and it's like, first off, are you that basic? Second, planning a vacation is fun? Is that not a thing that you want to do?

Yes, yeah, it's just like yeah, and they're the next clip. I don't think we'll actually play it, but like it is, it's him saying, hey, plan out like a three day vacation in London for me, And as far as I can tell, the AI goes for like the first top ten list of things to do in London that it finds, which was probably written by an AI, and then makes an itinerary based on those and it's like, first off, are you that basic? Second, planning a vacation is fun? Is that not a thing that you want to do?

Yeah? You're so right? Why would you? Because I look, the reason you would go to like a travel agent is because they are experts at it. They're gonna find the most fun thing for you outside of that, Yeah, I want to plan the cool stuff I'm gonna do, you know, And and yeah, what about people with fears, you know? Or people without skills, which is definitely going to be a large margin of people who do this. So you you're in London, now you're you're, you're, you're, And then it takes you on a trip to Malta to go scuba diving. You don't even know how to swim, and now you sit in therey like you already paid for bro, Yeah.

Yeah? You're so right? Why would you? Because I look, the reason you would go to like a travel agent is because they are experts at it. They're gonna find the most fun thing for you outside of that, Yeah, I want to plan the cool stuff I'm gonna do, you know, And and yeah, what about people with fears, you know? Or people without skills, which is definitely going to be a large margin of people who do this. So you you're in London, now you're you're, you're, you're, And then it takes you on a trip to Malta to go scuba diving. You don't even know how to swim, and now you sit in therey like you already paid for bro, Yeah.

You let your fuck for you. It's on you. It's silly, right, and I don't want to be I'm gonna say this is not the most direct parallel to cult shit will have, But watching this, I couldn't help but think about a cult that was like the subject of our second episode for this year, The Finders, And it was one of those things. The guy Marion Petty who ran it was like running games is the way he framed it. And people would join the cult and give up their agency, and he'd tell them go take a job in this city, or like go follow this guy and take notes on him for a year, or like have a kid and raise it. This way, and this is stuff like this is really common within cults. One of the appeals of a cult to a lot of people is that you both get a sense of purpose by following the cult and whatever things that says it going to do, and you give up the burden of having to choose a life for yourself. And this is such a common thing in cult dynamics that psychologist Robert Lifton, who's kind of one of the foundational minds and studying cults, described it as voluntary self surrender, and it's a major characteristic of a cult. Many of the finders, we're not you know, these are not dumb people. These are not like rubes. These are not hillbillies as they're often portrayed in our popular media. A lot of the finders had Ivy League degrees. One of them owned an oil company, and these guys still handed their lives over to a cult leader. Haruki Murakami, writing about ohm Shinriko, which is the cult that set off a bunch of poison gas in the Tokyo subway, noted that many of its members were doctors or engineers who quote actively sought to be controlled. I found a lot of this really information on the fundamental characteristics of what makes something a cult In an article by Zoe Heller published for The New Yorker back in twenty twenty one. At the time, she was kind of looking at QAnon and trying to decide, there's not like a clear guy and that's the cult leader, and there's not like a geographic center to this, and usually there is with cults in history. Does this still qualify? And I think a lot of people would agree that, like Yad does. I think a lot of experts tend to agree that Yead does. And when she was looking at the QAnon movement as a cult, Heller noted this. Robert Lifton suggests that people with certain kinds of personal history are more likely to experience such a longing, those with quote an early sense of confusion or dislocation, or at the opposite extreme, an early experience of unusually intense family milieu control. But he stresses that the capacity for totalist submission lurks in all of us and is probably rooted in childhood, the prolonged period of dependence during which we have no choice but to attribute to our parents and exaggerated omnipotence. And I found particularly the bit where he's talking about like, yeah, if you an early sense of confusion or dislocation makes people crave this kind of to give up this kind of control and responsibility. The people running these AI companies and maybe not necessarily the very top, because I think those tend to be pretty cynical, realistic human beings. But like a lot of the people who are in them, and a lot of the people who are latching onto AI as a fandom online are people whose childhoods and adolescences, like all of ours, were shaped by nine to eleven, the dislocation and change that that caused, and their young adulthoods. A lot of these people, like us, will have come of age around the time of the two thousand and eight crash. Many of the people who are younger in the AI fan base are you know, maybe zoomers and stuff, and you know, a lot of them are people who have really ugly ideas about like artists shouldn't charge for shit or whatever. Yes, but also these are people who a lot of them came into their careers went into stem fields because they were told coming up the tech industry is the safest place to make, you know, a good living for yourself and that all fell apart a couple of years ago, right, it started to at least tech laughs began so again dislocation, chaos, the sense that like what else am I going to entrust my life to? I thought I had a plan and it fell apart.

You let your fuck for you. It's on you. It's silly, right, and I don't want to be I'm gonna say this is not the most direct parallel to cult shit will have, But watching this, I couldn't help but think about a cult that was like the subject of our second episode for this year, The Finders, And it was one of those things. The guy Marion Petty who ran it was like running games is the way he framed it. And people would join the cult and give up their agency, and he'd tell them go take a job in this city, or like go follow this guy and take notes on him for a year, or like have a kid and raise it. This way, and this is stuff like this is really common within cults. One of the appeals of a cult to a lot of people is that you both get a sense of purpose by following the cult and whatever things that says it going to do, and you give up the burden of having to choose a life for yourself. And this is such a common thing in cult dynamics that psychologist Robert Lifton, who's kind of one of the foundational minds and studying cults, described it as voluntary self surrender, and it's a major characteristic of a cult. Many of the finders, we're not you know, these are not dumb people. These are not like rubes. These are not hillbillies as they're often portrayed in our popular media. A lot of the finders had Ivy League degrees. One of them owned an oil company, and these guys still handed their lives over to a cult leader. Haruki Murakami, writing about ohm Shinriko, which is the cult that set off a bunch of poison gas in the Tokyo subway, noted that many of its members were doctors or engineers who quote actively sought to be controlled. I found a lot of this really information on the fundamental characteristics of what makes something a cult In an article by Zoe Heller published for The New Yorker back in twenty twenty one. At the time, she was kind of looking at QAnon and trying to decide, there's not like a clear guy and that's the cult leader, and there's not like a geographic center to this, and usually there is with cults in history. Does this still qualify? And I think a lot of people would agree that, like Yad does. I think a lot of experts tend to agree that Yead does. And when she was looking at the QAnon movement as a cult, Heller noted this. Robert Lifton suggests that people with certain kinds of personal history are more likely to experience such a longing, those with quote an early sense of confusion or dislocation, or at the opposite extreme, an early experience of unusually intense family milieu control. But he stresses that the capacity for totalist submission lurks in all of us and is probably rooted in childhood, the prolonged period of dependence during which we have no choice but to attribute to our parents and exaggerated omnipotence. And I found particularly the bit where he's talking about like, yeah, if you an early sense of confusion or dislocation makes people crave this kind of to give up this kind of control and responsibility. The people running these AI companies and maybe not necessarily the very top, because I think those tend to be pretty cynical, realistic human beings. But like a lot of the people who are in them, and a lot of the people who are latching onto AI as a fandom online are people whose childhoods and adolescences, like all of ours, were shaped by nine to eleven, the dislocation and change that that caused, and their young adulthoods. A lot of these people, like us, will have come of age around the time of the two thousand and eight crash. Many of the people who are younger in the AI fan base are you know, maybe zoomers and stuff, and you know, a lot of them are people who have really ugly ideas about like artists shouldn't charge for shit or whatever. Yes, but also these are people who a lot of them came into their careers went into stem fields because they were told coming up the tech industry is the safest place to make, you know, a good living for yourself and that all fell apart a couple of years ago, right, it started to at least tech laughs began so again dislocation, chaos, the sense that like what else am I going to entrust my life to? I thought I had a plan and it fell apart.

Yeah, you know, I this is this is where if he's going to get real, it's philosophical and big brereer. But I just finished All about Love by Bell Hooks, and you know she often talks about like the wandering life with lovelessness and that, and that's searching for it and not having having it. And I feel like that goes hand in hand with what you're saying right where it's like I want a sense of belonging and I want to feel like I'm a part of people, and whether that is running into target trampling people for Stanley cups, or it's being a part of like what you perceive to be the next big thing. Like I think that is the biggest kind of selling point for a lot of these AI people who's like this is the future, Like that is almost every person who starts a fifty tweet thread with shitty examples of why AI rocks starts itting with this is the future and you just got to get over it. And there's so many people who just want to be on the ground floor of that. They want to be the people who were on it. Because how many times even I, you know, when you have that like time machine question, you're like, oh, Stock and Starbucks, ooh uh an Apple. You just want to be there before it gets big. So when it really at the end of the day, it all comes down to commerce, you want to be at the top when it all shifts. And that is actually the danger in this for me is the commerce. I think about it often because you know, like you're saying it, like orders the top Google search. Google is kindrently in courts right now fighting against you know, basically shaking down companies to see who would be the top one. So like the future of this being actually you know, a useful app kind of lives now in that case because if Google wins and they can put whoever's on top, that's only going to make it more valuable where they place who's on top. Because people are using these weird rabbits, you know, yeah, exactly, it's yeah, it is to them. They see the beginning of the futures, and I feel like, to me, I'm just looking at all the ways it can be abused, because if we just look at everything that has come before us, we have to think of the ways that it has been abused.

Yeah, you know, I this is this is where if he's going to get real, it's philosophical and big brereer. But I just finished All about Love by Bell Hooks, and you know she often talks about like the wandering life with lovelessness and that, and that's searching for it and not having having it. And I feel like that goes hand in hand with what you're saying right where it's like I want a sense of belonging and I want to feel like I'm a part of people, and whether that is running into target trampling people for Stanley cups, or it's being a part of like what you perceive to be the next big thing. Like I think that is the biggest kind of selling point for a lot of these AI people who's like this is the future, Like that is almost every person who starts a fifty tweet thread with shitty examples of why AI rocks starts itting with this is the future and you just got to get over it. And there's so many people who just want to be on the ground floor of that. They want to be the people who were on it. Because how many times even I, you know, when you have that like time machine question, you're like, oh, Stock and Starbucks, ooh uh an Apple. You just want to be there before it gets big. So when it really at the end of the day, it all comes down to commerce, you want to be at the top when it all shifts. And that is actually the danger in this for me is the commerce. I think about it often because you know, like you're saying it, like orders the top Google search. Google is kindrently in courts right now fighting against you know, basically shaking down companies to see who would be the top one. So like the future of this being actually you know, a useful app kind of lives now in that case because if Google wins and they can put whoever's on top, that's only going to make it more valuable where they place who's on top. Because people are using these weird rabbits, you know, yeah, exactly, it's yeah, it is to them. They see the beginning of the futures, and I feel like, to me, I'm just looking at all the ways it can be abused, because if we just look at everything that has come before us, we have to think of the ways that it has been abused.

And all the ways it'll be a worse future, you know. And I think I really liked that you brought up the panic they try to inciteen the rest of us, the like the fomo where it's like this is the future, get on board or you're gonna get left behind, y right? That is that is the cult recruitment tactic, right, And what they're trying to do. I just brought up that a lot of the people who are most vulnerable to this are the folks who like, yeah, they have this sense of like insecurity, dislocation, and they see getting on board with this early they feel like a sense of security there. And by saying you're going to get left behind, this is the only way forward, you won't be competitive if you don't embrace this stuff that they're trying to induce that sense of fear and dislocation to make people vulnerable. And I want to read another quote from that art from that New Yorker article, The Less control we feel we have over our circumstances, the more likely we are to entrust our fates to a higher power. A classic example of this relationship was provided by the anthropologist Bronislam Molina Whisky, who found that fishermen in the Trobyan Islands off the coast of New Guinea engaged in more magic rituals the further out to see they went. And I think we all feel like we're getting further out to see these days, right, Like, it's not hard to see why. I like, yeah, I'm near the shore or what. I don't believe in anything but what's right in front of me. And then like you can't say anything but water, and you're like, no, there's a god and I can keep them happy.

And all the ways it'll be a worse future, you know. And I think I really liked that you brought up the panic they try to inciteen the rest of us, the like the fomo where it's like this is the future, get on board or you're gonna get left behind, y right? That is that is the cult recruitment tactic, right, And what they're trying to do. I just brought up that a lot of the people who are most vulnerable to this are the folks who like, yeah, they have this sense of like insecurity, dislocation, and they see getting on board with this early they feel like a sense of security there. And by saying you're going to get left behind, this is the only way forward, you won't be competitive if you don't embrace this stuff that they're trying to induce that sense of fear and dislocation to make people vulnerable. And I want to read another quote from that art from that New Yorker article, The Less control we feel we have over our circumstances, the more likely we are to entrust our fates to a higher power. A classic example of this relationship was provided by the anthropologist Bronislam Molina Whisky, who found that fishermen in the Trobyan Islands off the coast of New Guinea engaged in more magic rituals the further out to see they went. And I think we all feel like we're getting further out to see these days, right, Like, it's not hard to see why. I like, yeah, I'm near the shore or what. I don't believe in anything but what's right in front of me. And then like you can't say anything but water, and you're like, no, there's a god and I can keep them happy.

Yes, yes, indeed, it's it's tough. Yeah, everyone's just kind of grasping at what they can to just bolster themselves. And sometimes yeah, you're grasping at some weird stuff.

Yes, yes, indeed, it's it's tough. Yeah, everyone's just kind of grasping at what they can to just bolster themselves. And sometimes yeah, you're grasping at some weird stuff.

Yeah yeah, yeah, And it's you know, it's noted often by I think a lot of particularly atheists on the Internet, that like church attendance is down people who identify as part of an organized religion like that that is at its lowest level basically. Ever, and this is true. These are real trends and they have real effects. But I don't think the fact that less people are religious in the traditional sense means they're less superstitious or spiritual than they ever. It's just that what they invest with that belief has changed, in part because they've seen the world dislocate so far out of what most priests and another sort of like religious heads are capable of sort of explaining or comforting them over right, It's like, oh, religion is less comforting in a world as advanced as ours for most people. Now, this may seem like a reach still to kind of call what's going on around AI a cult, and I get that. I ask you to bear with me here, and I do want to note there's nothing wrong with the inherent technology that we often call AI, or at least not with all of it. That's A because it's used as such a wide banner term for stuff is very just like a text recognition program that can listen to human voice and create an on the fly transcription. That's an AI. That's an example of that kind of technology, right like it gets folded in there. That's one of the things in AI has to do recognizing language in like facial recognition too, recognizing faces. If you're ever going to have an actual artificial intelligence, those are two of the baseline capabilities that it needs. Chatbots obviously are a big part of this, along with like the Sundry tools that are being used now to clone voices, to generate deep fakes and fuel our now constant trip into the Uncanny Valley. Cees featured some real products that actually did harness the promise of machine learning in ways that I thought, we're cool as I noted it could happen here. There's like this telescope. It uses machine learning to like basically clean up images that you take with it at night when there's like a lot of light pollutions so you can see more clearly. And I'm like, yeah, that's dope. That's great, But that lived alongside a lot of nonsense, you know. Chat GPT for dogs was a real sin I saw, and like, there was an AI assisted fleshlight to help you not be a premature.

Yeah yeah, yeah, And it's you know, it's noted often by I think a lot of particularly atheists on the Internet, that like church attendance is down people who identify as part of an organized religion like that that is at its lowest level basically. Ever, and this is true. These are real trends and they have real effects. But I don't think the fact that less people are religious in the traditional sense means they're less superstitious or spiritual than they ever. It's just that what they invest with that belief has changed, in part because they've seen the world dislocate so far out of what most priests and another sort of like religious heads are capable of sort of explaining or comforting them over right, It's like, oh, religion is less comforting in a world as advanced as ours for most people. Now, this may seem like a reach still to kind of call what's going on around AI a cult, and I get that. I ask you to bear with me here, and I do want to note there's nothing wrong with the inherent technology that we often call AI, or at least not with all of it. That's A because it's used as such a wide banner term for stuff is very just like a text recognition program that can listen to human voice and create an on the fly transcription. That's an AI. That's an example of that kind of technology, right like it gets folded in there. That's one of the things in AI has to do recognizing language in like facial recognition too, recognizing faces. If you're ever going to have an actual artificial intelligence, those are two of the baseline capabilities that it needs. Chatbots obviously are a big part of this, along with like the Sundry tools that are being used now to clone voices, to generate deep fakes and fuel our now constant trip into the Uncanny Valley. Cees featured some real products that actually did harness the promise of machine learning in ways that I thought, we're cool as I noted it could happen here. There's like this telescope. It uses machine learning to like basically clean up images that you take with it at night when there's like a lot of light pollutions so you can see more clearly. And I'm like, yeah, that's dope. That's great, But that lived alongside a lot of nonsense, you know. Chat GPT for dogs was a real sin I saw, and like, there was an AI assisted fleshlight to help you not be a premature.

Because of course that's the one that popped on my tongueline. It's like and it was like and then they gamified it where you go to different planets, you defeat the planet. So I'm like, what you You keep talking about beating the planets? So how do I lose? Is it when I bust about bussing loss? Because you're now introducing shame to sex again and I thought we finally got out moving best that. Yeah, I can't beat.

Because of course that's the one that popped on my tongueline. It's like and it was like and then they gamified it where you go to different planets, you defeat the planet. So I'm like, what you You keep talking about beating the planets? So how do I lose? Is it when I bust about bussing loss? Because you're now introducing shame to sex again and I thought we finally got out moving best that. Yeah, I can't beat.

Level those kind of bad ideas. That's all par for the course for CEES. But what I saw this year, in last year, not just at CEES, just over the year in the tech industry from futurist fanboys and titans of industry like Mark Andersson, is a kind of unhinged messianic fervor that compares better that to scientology than it does to the iPhone. And I mean that literally. Mark Andreesen is the co founder of Netscape and the capital firm Andresen Horowitz. He is one of the most influential investors in tech history, and he's put more money into AI's startups than almost anyone else. Last year, he published something called the Techno Optimist Manifesto on the Andresen Horowitz website. On the surface, it's a pean to the promise of AI and an exhortation to embrace the promise of technology and disregard pessimism. Plenty of people called the Peace Out for its logical fallacies. For example, it ignores that a lot of tech pessimism is due to real harm caused by some of the companies Andresen invested in, like Facebook. What's attracted less attention is the messianic overtones of everything. Andresen believes quote, we believe artificial intelligence can save lives if we let it. Medicine, along Manye with many other fields, is in the Stone age compared to what we can achieve with joined human and machine intelligence working on new cures. There are scores of common causes of death that can be fixed with AI, from plane crashes to pandemics to wartime friendly fire. Now he's right that there's some medical uses for AI. It's being used right now to help improve the ability to recognize certain kinds of cancer, and there's the potential for stuff like in home devices that let you scan your skin to see if you're developing a melanoma. And there's debate still over how useful it's going to be in medical research. I've talked to recently some experts and I've read some stuff that like there are some reasons for caution too, for some of the same reasons we should have caution with this everywhere. There's also disinformation that spread medically with AI, even to doctors, and some of the patterns that using this stuff gets medical professionals into can make them discount certain diagnoses as well. So I don't say that to like say, there's not going to be some significant uses for some of the way this technology works medically. Some aspects of AI will save lives. It's just the evidence right now doesn't see just it's going to completely revolutionize medical science. It's another advancement that will be good in some ways, and there will be some negative aspects of it too.

Level those kind of bad ideas. That's all par for the course for CEES. But what I saw this year, in last year, not just at CEES, just over the year in the tech industry from futurist fanboys and titans of industry like Mark Andersson, is a kind of unhinged messianic fervor that compares better that to scientology than it does to the iPhone. And I mean that literally. Mark Andreesen is the co founder of Netscape and the capital firm Andresen Horowitz. He is one of the most influential investors in tech history, and he's put more money into AI's startups than almost anyone else. Last year, he published something called the Techno Optimist Manifesto on the Andresen Horowitz website. On the surface, it's a pean to the promise of AI and an exhortation to embrace the promise of technology and disregard pessimism. Plenty of people called the Peace Out for its logical fallacies. For example, it ignores that a lot of tech pessimism is due to real harm caused by some of the companies Andresen invested in, like Facebook. What's attracted less attention is the messianic overtones of everything. Andresen believes quote, we believe artificial intelligence can save lives if we let it. Medicine, along Manye with many other fields, is in the Stone age compared to what we can achieve with joined human and machine intelligence working on new cures. There are scores of common causes of death that can be fixed with AI, from plane crashes to pandemics to wartime friendly fire. Now he's right that there's some medical uses for AI. It's being used right now to help improve the ability to recognize certain kinds of cancer, and there's the potential for stuff like in home devices that let you scan your skin to see if you're developing a melanoma. And there's debate still over how useful it's going to be in medical research. I've talked to recently some experts and I've read some stuff that like there are some reasons for caution too, for some of the same reasons we should have caution with this everywhere. There's also disinformation that spread medically with AI, even to doctors, and some of the patterns that using this stuff gets medical professionals into can make them discount certain diagnoses as well. So I don't say that to like say, there's not going to be some significant uses for some of the way this technology works medically. Some aspects of AI will save lives. It's just the evidence right now doesn't see just it's going to completely revolutionize medical science. It's another advancement that will be good in some ways, and there will be some negative aspects of it too.

Right.

Right.

It's also very much not fair to say that, like we're going to reduce deaths for human beings as a result of AI, because right now the nation of Israel is using an AI program called the Gospel to assist it in aiming its air strikes, which have been widely condemned for their out exceptional outstanding, in many cases genocidal level of civilian casualties. Yes, it's just outrageous.

It's also very much not fair to say that, like we're going to reduce deaths for human beings as a result of AI, because right now the nation of Israel is using an AI program called the Gospel to assist it in aiming its air strikes, which have been widely condemned for their out exceptional outstanding, in many cases genocidal level of civilian casualties. Yes, it's just outrageous.

Yeah, oh, one hundred percent, And you know, you know that's exactly what's going on as a genocide, and you know the language and a lot of these speeches says that say as much fair, yeah, even more so. Yeah, like like you're saying another thing I want to point out, which you might have been about to say, and I'm already jumping ahead. Is how I think it was chet GPT that has quietly switched their terms of service to say that it wouldn't be used for like weapons and.

Yeah, oh, one hundred percent, And you know, you know that's exactly what's going on as a genocide, and you know the language and a lot of these speeches says that say as much fair, yeah, even more so. Yeah, like like you're saying another thing I want to point out, which you might have been about to say, and I'm already jumping ahead. Is how I think it was chet GPT that has quietly switched their terms of service to say that it wouldn't be used for like weapons and.

Oh yeah, to hurt people, and that's for sure.

Oh yeah, to hurt people, and that's for sure.

Yeah, and now now it has it has been quietly scrubbed from those terms of service, and we do we need to talk about that, Yeah, because there's just so many things that we have grown accustomed to with tech that I think is dangerous as we get into things that have more room for error. Because we're used to updated terms of services on our iPhone, right every time we grab an eye an update, it's like, here's a new terms of service and you just kind of scroll through it and you go yeah, because you're like, yeah, you know, this is just a phone. It's not gonna, you know, be used for anything weird. Yet uh so you're you're comfortable. But like when you're doing the same thing with these chat GPT machine learning situations where you're you're agreeing, and you're agreeing, Okay, I will help this thing learn, and now you are just actively helping it learn how to be an assassin. Like what happens there?

Yeah, and now now it has it has been quietly scrubbed from those terms of service, and we do we need to talk about that, Yeah, because there's just so many things that we have grown accustomed to with tech that I think is dangerous as we get into things that have more room for error. Because we're used to updated terms of services on our iPhone, right every time we grab an eye an update, it's like, here's a new terms of service and you just kind of scroll through it and you go yeah, because you're like, yeah, you know, this is just a phone. It's not gonna, you know, be used for anything weird. Yet uh so you're you're comfortable. But like when you're doing the same thing with these chat GPT machine learning situations where you're you're agreeing, and you're agreeing, Okay, I will help this thing learn, and now you are just actively helping it learn how to be an assassin. Like what happens there?

Yeah, And it's again it's this back and forth where on one hand, there is some technology like AI enabled robots that can go run onto a battlefield and pick up an injured soldier. I have no desire to see some random private bleed to death in a foreign country, fine with that. Or anti missile missiles right, using AI to intercept and stop a missile from blowing up in a civilian area sounds fine, Like I don't. I don't want random people to die from missiles, But it's also going to be used to target those missiles. And to say, like, based on some shit we analyzed on Twitter or whatever, we think wiping out this grid square of apartment buildings will really get a lot of the bad guys, and based.

Yeah, And it's again it's this back and forth where on one hand, there is some technology like AI enabled robots that can go run onto a battlefield and pick up an injured soldier. I have no desire to see some random private bleed to death in a foreign country, fine with that. Or anti missile missiles right, using AI to intercept and stop a missile from blowing up in a civilian area sounds fine, Like I don't. I don't want random people to die from missiles, But it's also going to be used to target those missiles. And to say, like, based on some shit we analyzed on Twitter or whatever, we think wiping out this grid square of apartment buildings will really get a lot of the bad guys, and based.

On we should blow them up exactly. It's crazy.

On we should blow them up exactly. It's crazy.

It's just it's there's certainly it's certainly not fair to say there won't be benefits, but it's absolutely unclear in every field of endeavor whether or not they will outweigh the harms, right, And even if they do, to what extent, you know, because a lot of what I'm saying suggests that even if the benefits outweigh the harms in a lot of fields, it's still I'm not going because of the extent of the harms. In part, it's still not going to be a massive sea change.

It's just it's there's certainly it's certainly not fair to say there won't be benefits, but it's absolutely unclear in every field of endeavor whether or not they will outweigh the harms, right, And even if they do, to what extent, you know, because a lot of what I'm saying suggests that even if the benefits outweigh the harms in a lot of fields, it's still I'm not going because of the extent of the harms. In part, it's still not going to be a massive sea change.

Right.

Right.

There are a lot of reasons for caution, but Mark has no time for doubters. In fact, to him, doubting the benefits of AGI artificial general intelligence is the only true sin of his religion. Quote. We believe any deceleration of AI will cost lives deaths that were preventable by the AI that was prevented from existing. Is a form of murder. And that's fucked up. That's really dangerous to start talking like that. Oh yeah, and this is the more direct cult comment here. I want you to compare the claim Mark made above that slowing down AI is identical to murder. I want you to compare that to the claims the Church of Scientologies makes. Because the Church of Scientology, they have this list of practices and the beliefs that they call tech, right, and they believe that by taking on tech, by engaging with it, people can become clear of all of their flaws, and and by doing that you can help you can fix all of the problems in the world. Right, the Church of Scientology on his websites claims that its followers will quote rid the planet of insanity, war and crime, and in its place create a civilization in which sanity and piece exist. How is that in any way different from Mark Andresen saying all of the shit that he's saying, right, that it's going to like create this this We're going to revolutionize medicine, We're going to like d friendly fire, We're going to cure pandemics, we're going to stop car crash. Asks what is the difference? Right and Scientology uses that claim that scientology tech is so necessary it's going to fix all these problems. So anyone who gets in the way of the Church of Scientology and the deployment of this tech for mankind's benefit is subject to what they call fair game. A person declared fair game quote may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist. And again, Mark Andersson has not said that in his Techno Optimist manifesto. In fact, he makes some claims about like none of no people are our enemies.

There are a lot of reasons for caution, but Mark has no time for doubters. In fact, to him, doubting the benefits of AGI artificial general intelligence is the only true sin of his religion. Quote. We believe any deceleration of AI will cost lives deaths that were preventable by the AI that was prevented from existing. Is a form of murder. And that's fucked up. That's really dangerous to start talking like that. Oh yeah, and this is the more direct cult comment here. I want you to compare the claim Mark made above that slowing down AI is identical to murder. I want you to compare that to the claims the Church of Scientologies makes. Because the Church of Scientology, they have this list of practices and the beliefs that they call tech, right, and they believe that by taking on tech, by engaging with it, people can become clear of all of their flaws, and and by doing that you can help you can fix all of the problems in the world. Right, the Church of Scientology on his websites claims that its followers will quote rid the planet of insanity, war and crime, and in its place create a civilization in which sanity and piece exist. How is that in any way different from Mark Andresen saying all of the shit that he's saying, right, that it's going to like create this this We're going to revolutionize medicine, We're going to like d friendly fire, We're going to cure pandemics, we're going to stop car crash. Asks what is the difference? Right and Scientology uses that claim that scientology tech is so necessary it's going to fix all these problems. So anyone who gets in the way of the Church of Scientology and the deployment of this tech for mankind's benefit is subject to what they call fair game. A person declared fair game quote may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist. And again, Mark Andersson has not said that in his Techno Optimist manifesto. In fact, he makes some claims about like none of no people are our enemies.

Right.

Right.

If you're saying you're a murderer for slowing this down, it's not her to see how some people might adopt a practice like fair game eventually, right, that's how where else does this go?

If you're saying you're a murderer for slowing this down, it's not her to see how some people might adopt a practice like fair game eventually, right, that's how where else does this go?

Is my way? What do we do with murderers? What does I feel like the general rule across all creeds? Yeah, across all beliefs is typically murderers are bad and should die.

Is my way? What do we do with murderers? What does I feel like the general rule across all creeds? Yeah, across all beliefs is typically murderers are bad and should die.

That is at least to be punished. Right, there's a punishment for murders. Most people agree. Yeah, speaking of murder, you know who has never committed a murder?

That is at least to be punished. Right, there's a punishment for murders. Most people agree. Yeah, speaking of murder, you know who has never committed a murder?

You cannot say that, like Blake. Okay, all of our ads.

You cannot say that, like Blake. Okay, all of our ads.

You know who, I can't prove we're involved in any murders, just like I have no evidence that Jamie Loftis had any role with Okay, Okay.

You know who, I can't prove we're involved in any murders, just like I have no evidence that Jamie Loftis had any role with Okay, Okay.

What I'm saying one one, my girl is innocent, and two you can't say that about ours about this, Okay, Well, we don't pick them.

What I'm saying one one, my girl is innocent, and two you can't say that about ours about this, Okay, Well, we don't pick them.

If he By the way, we're spreading a rumor online that Jamie Loftis was possibly involved in a series of murders in Grand Rapids, Michigan. It's a bit, it's it's it's a good bits.

If he By the way, we're spreading a rumor online that Jamie Loftis was possibly involved in a series of murders in Grand Rapids, Michigan. It's a bit, it's it's it's a good bits.

So you know who knows innocent?

So you know who knows innocent?

Uh huh.

Uh huh.

Anyway, here's here's some ads. Oh We're back. So the more you dig into Anderson's theology, the more it starts to seem like a form of techno capitalist Christianity. AI is the savior in the cases of devices like the Rabbit, it might literally become our own personal Jesus. And who you might ask, is God. Quote. We believe the market economy is a discovery machine, a form of intelligence, an exploratory, evolutionary adaptive system. Now God, through this concept of reality capitalism itself and capitalize the sea there because it's a deity. Hassen to bring artificial general intelligence into being. All the jobs lost, all the incoherent flats and choking our Internet, all the Amazon drop shippers using chat GPT to write product descriptions, these are but the market expressing its will. Artists have to be plagiarized. Children need to be presented with hours of procedurally generated slop and lies on YouTube so that we one day can reach the promise land of artificial general intelligence. Iffy isn't it worth it.

Anyway, here's here's some ads. Oh We're back. So the more you dig into Anderson's theology, the more it starts to seem like a form of techno capitalist Christianity. AI is the savior in the cases of devices like the Rabbit, it might literally become our own personal Jesus. And who you might ask, is God. Quote. We believe the market economy is a discovery machine, a form of intelligence, an exploratory, evolutionary adaptive system. Now God, through this concept of reality capitalism itself and capitalize the sea there because it's a deity. Hassen to bring artificial general intelligence into being. All the jobs lost, all the incoherent flats and choking our Internet, all the Amazon drop shippers using chat GPT to write product descriptions, these are but the market expressing its will. Artists have to be plagiarized. Children need to be presented with hours of procedurally generated slop and lies on YouTube so that we one day can reach the promise land of artificial general intelligence. Iffy isn't it worth it.

Oh my god, it's so isn't And it's I didn't know.

Oh my god, it's so isn't And it's I didn't know.

You know.

You know.

One of the biggest criticism with AI is that it you know, it is one of the effects of when you know, creativity and commerce meets commerce will always try and kill creativity because it is commerce is more concerned with the the the the the buck than it is the outcome or what it takes to get set buck. And that was that was going to be a whole thing. I was going to drop at some point, and they just said it for me. They just send like like they I didn't. I thought it was more veiled. I thought it was more hidden. But you know, that is that is why you can you can try and say that it is ethical to take from artists because we're making it easier for you. Your fingie's hurt doing all that drawing. But if it learns from you, and and and and and and you know, uh, don't ask how you're gonna get paid, But if it learns from you, we can. We can give the people what they want without causing you all this labor. You know, but who gets the money. It's it's always the dork behind the computer who did the code that is just essentially stealing from all of these people and learning from them and then just producing this amalgation of everything they've done.

One of the biggest criticism with AI is that it you know, it is one of the effects of when you know, creativity and commerce meets commerce will always try and kill creativity because it is commerce is more concerned with the the the the the buck than it is the outcome or what it takes to get set buck. And that was that was going to be a whole thing. I was going to drop at some point, and they just said it for me. They just send like like they I didn't. I thought it was more veiled. I thought it was more hidden. But you know, that is that is why you can you can try and say that it is ethical to take from artists because we're making it easier for you. Your fingie's hurt doing all that drawing. But if it learns from you, and and and and and and you know, uh, don't ask how you're gonna get paid, But if it learns from you, we can. We can give the people what they want without causing you all this labor. You know, but who gets the money. It's it's always the dork behind the computer who did the code that is just essentially stealing from all of these people and learning from them and then just producing this amalgation of everything they've done.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Also, I should know I'm trying to be consistent about this. I wrote it down and then I think slipped into it. It's Andres and Mark Andrees and andresen Horowitz. Uh, it's just a weird name that I'm not used to say. I wrote this down and then immediately forgot to correct myself at the start of the podcast. Again, folks, hack and a fraud. But you know who can own well, actually, I won't say only humans can be hacks and frauds like that. Because the AI is absolutely mispronounced shit and get shit wrong too. I guess that maybe they are getting conscious. Can they build an AI that's as much a hack and a fraud as I am. We'll see. So no, thank you, Sophie, I appreciate it. AGI is treated as an inevitability by people like Sam Altman of open Ai, who need it to be at least perceived as inevitable so their company can have the largest possible IPO. Right, there's a lot of money on the line and in the people with money believing all of the promises that Andresen is making. This messianic fervor has also been adopted by squadrons of less influential tech executives who simply need AI to be real because it solves a financial problem. Venture capital funding for big tech collapsed in the months before chat GPT hit public consciousness. The reason cees was packed with so many random AI branded products was that sticking those two letters on a new company is like they treat it like a talisman, right, It's this ritual to bring back the rainy season. You know, if you throw AI in your shit, people might buy it. Yeah, And it's you know, there's versions of this, like laptop makers are throwing AI in everything they do now just because like laptop sales soared during the start of the pandemic, but they plummeted because people, for one thing, don't need to buy laptops all the fucking time. Most people wear them out right, yes, exactly. And again this comes in. If you can get people in the cold, if you can get them scared that they're going to fall behind without AI, then maybe they'll buy a new AI and I have lap cup top because they're like, well, this is what I got to do to stay competitive. You know, the terminology that these rich tech executives use around AI is generally more grounded than Andreson's prophesying, right, but it's just as irrational. The most unhinged thing I heard in person at CES was from Bartley Richardson, an AI infrastructure manager at Nvidia, who opened a panel on deep fakes by announcing, I think everybody has a co pilot. Everybody's making a co pilot. Everybody wants a co pilot. Right, there's going to be a Bartley co pilot maybe sometime in the future. That's just a great way to accelerate us as humans, right. And it's funny he's named Bartley. If you if you know your old Star Trek and you can remember Barkley, the the Sad insign. He sounds like that guy and resembles him.